audophile 2496 problem

[acidtest]

im having problems using this card. actually im not sure yet if the problem is the card. im using cubase sx3 to record bass , electric/acoustic guitars and vocals from a mixer's record out to the 2496. so far the i keep getting very low input signal in the audiophile mixer/console. something like 20 or 10 below zero. is this normal?  im not recording this instruments all at once. when i used my onboard sc's line in, it gives better signal strenght on cubase. about wice the strengt at least. there's also a cyclic buzzing noise on the recorded signal or better yet the recorded signal is sort of riding in a cycle. so far it only manifests in the bass recordings but i still struggle with the low input signal. any ideas?

[3650guy]

what kind of mixer are you using to feed the inputs of the m audio card?  it should be sufficient enough  to send a healthy send to the m audio input mixer. 
 

[BAMF]

-10dBFS is not bad at all. To give you an idea, the meters start going red at -6dBFS. Your levels hit 0dBFS and your signal clips and gets distorted.

Seeing if I got the Q right, you're not supposed to plug in a bass guitar or even an FX box straight into the line in. It's bad enough to use a mixer's mic in. You really need an instrument level to line level preamp. Or a DI box if you have a mixer. Or your bass amps line out straight into the SC or mixer line in.

Derivative of right tool for the right job. Right signal into the right port. . 

im having problems using this card. actually im not sure yet if the problem is the card. im using cubase sx3 to record bass , electric/acoustic guitars and vocals from a mixer's record out to the 2496. so far the i keep getting very low input signal in the audiophile mixer/console. something like 20 or 10 below zero. is this normal?  im not recording this instruments all at once. when i used my onboard sc's line in, it gives better signal strenght on cubase. about wice the strengt at least. there's also a cyclic buzzing noise on the recorded signal or better yet the recorded signal is sort of riding in a cycle. so far it only manifests in the bass recordings but i still struggle with the low input signal. any ideas?

[acidtest]

i used the line out from my bass amp and still get very minimal signal strength. the gui waveform in cubase virtually a flatline. the -10 db signal strength is the 'powered up' setting in my analog mixer. it means im already beefing up the signal using boosters from auxes. im still stuck with the cyclic problem thought. i recently reinstalled the drivers for the card and still struggling to get more time to experiment on this. thank you for taking the time to reply.

[jamming_papu]

are you using good functioning cables? minsan kasi nasa cable din. yung mga generic cables kasi prone sa ganyang problems.

[3650guy]

...check the input mixer on the m audio mixer panel. this should be the basis for verifying if you are recording a healthy dynamic signal. even if the input fader on this panel is lowered it will still reflect the actual signal getting into the card.

[acidtest]

...check the input mixer on the m audio mixer panel. this should be the basis for verifying if you are recording a healthy dynamic signal. even if the input fader on this panel is lowered it will still reflect the actual signal getting into the card.

thats where i actually looked. and it bothers me that the signal strength is really low. i already moved the sliders to max settings. the original signal itself is only a third at most when beefed up from the mixer. i still dont go beyond 0 db in the analog mixer if i can help it.
i use branded cables for the guitar/ bass (california cable with neutrix heads) but cheapo but brand new rca cables. i dont have the time to visit electronics store to get better ones yet. probably this coming day off...

[3650guy]

then we have to discard the m audio card for the meantime as the culprit.

what is the mixer you are using, and what is the signal path from the guitar cable to the output jack or the mixer?  is there a direct output for each channel? then you can also try it out.                                           

[KitC]

Some bass cabs line outs are controlled by the master volume (should not be) or some other volume control. Have you tried miking the bass cabinet via the mixer? This test should help you determine if the mixer channel strip is defective or not. Some mixer channels let you choose between line or mic settings; you can use both simultaneously.

[acidtest]

then we have to discard the m audio card for the meantime as the culprit.

what is the mixer you are using, and what is the signal path from the guitar cable to the output jack or the mixer?  is there a direct output for each channel? then you can also try it out.                                          

the mixer is a studiomaster diamond 12-2. an 'ancient' mixer. it doesnt have a direct output for each channel. 12 mic, 12 line in, 2 aux, one stereo tape in, one stereo out(rec) , global phantom power switch, headphones, main out. im using the record out from the mixer to connect the card. bass guitar is plugged to the line in. i have a half broken/working sans amp bass driver lying somewhere around the house but i'm not comfortable using that. its also a really ancient thing. ive tried using the main out too (with a jack) as the output to the sound card. the meters are identical.

Some bass cabs line outs are controlled by the master volume (should not be) or some other volume control. Have you tried miking the bass cabinet via the mixer? This test should help you determine if the mixer channel strip is defective or not. Some mixer channels let you choose between line or mic settings; you can use both simultaneously.

i dont have good mics for the bass amp and this mixer model is not equipped with the line mic switch but can be used simultaneously. the bass amp is a fender bxr100 and if i mic this thing with half the settings, it would surely result to an 'interview' with the local townhomes officials. there's also a 0db sign just under the bass amp's line out channel. i assumed it just preserves the original signal strength.   

[3650guy]

have you tried all 12 mic inputs? just to see if you can overdrive err deliver a healthy signal? and how much for the broken sans amp

[KitC]

bass guitar is plugged to the line in.

THAT is why your signal is so weak.

In order to match impedances, you need a DI so that the line input will properly match the bass guitar electronics.

I checked the Fender manual and it indicates that the line out is "quasi-balanced" and passes through the 'Delta Comp'. The Preamp out can be used in lieu of the line out to connect to a line input.

[acidtest]

have you tried all 12 mic inputs? just to see if you can overdrive err deliver a healthy signal? and how much for the broken sans amp

i was thinking off doing that and got as far as trying six channels - same signal

THAT is why your signal is so weak.

In order to match impedances, you need a DI so that the line input will properly match the bass guitar electronics.

I checked the Fender manual and it indicates that the line out is "quasi-balanced" and passes through the 'Delta Comp'. The Preamp out can be used in lieu of the line out to connect to a line input.

i already tried plugging the bass to my bass amp and connecting the amp to the mixer using line out and i get an even weaker signal. about less than half of what i get when plugged directly. Thanks for the bxr100 link! that came really handy.

[starfugger]

before anything else, i noticed that you're using the rec out of your mixer.  how about trying the main out's first?  you can have a cable made for this.

[starfugger]

oh sorry, didnt see the part where you said youve tried the main outs.  ako naman i used the input of my m-audio 2496 and so far so good.  eto signal chain ko:

guitar > ART mic pre insturment in > ART out > 2496 in

the signal seemed low at first but i was able to boost things to normal naman by tweaking the knobs. 

try to replace every element in your chain muna before coming to the conclusion that the card is the problem.  for starters, try plugging in a mic into the mixer's mic in, then from the mixer's main out into the 2496's input.  see if the signal is healthy.

[acidtest]

thanks for all the reply! i think starting to get the hang of this. there's a little thing here and there but im getting better results now. ill post more about this later. i may need a few more hours tweaking this thing with a clear head since i mostly attemp this after getting home from work and im half dead by then. anyone around the commonwealth/diliman area with toys like this? i want to see this thing in action in a working rig. or maybe come over to my place and tell me if im doing something wrong. i can "compensate" maybe with a few bottles and something fried or inihaw for the trouble. im also a guitar player and have a full band setup to fool around...

oh sorry, didnt see the part where you said youve tried the main outs.  ako naman i used the input of my m-audio 2496 and so far so good.  eto signal chain ko:

guitar > ART mic pre insturment in > ART out > 2496 in

the signal seemed low at first but i was able to boost things to normal naman by tweaking the knobs. 

try to replace every element in your chain muna before coming to the conclusion that the card is the problem.  for starters, try plugging in a mic into the mixer's mic in, then from the mixer's main out into the 2496's input.  see if the signal is healthy.

ill try the mics later. so far it think i just got used to the signal strength when using the line input from the board. i just remembered that i do get a certain level of distortion even when the signals are still within the healthy levels. there maybe a software level preamp/ boost in there somewhere or just plain difference in signal processing. im also using xp now as opposed to vista back then.   

[acidtest]

to starfugger,
so u have a modified cable from the art's out to connect to the 2496? maybe you can  specify the exact model so i can look it up? thanks!

[KitC]

i was thinking off doing that and got as far as trying six channels - same signal

i already tried plugging the bass to my bass amp and connecting the amp to the mixer using line out and i get an even weaker signal. about less than half of what i get when plugged directly. Thanks for the bxr100 link! that came really handy.

You're welcome.

2 things are becoming apparent here... either the 2496 is faulty or the BXR line output is faulty as well.

starfugger's routing mimics my own musings when I had my own ART (BAMF! did you change the tube on the V3 studio yet?). If you have an outboard preamp like the ART or even a Behringer MIC200, you can try the same experiment. If the signal is ok with an outboard, then the BXR is suspect.

Next thing to test should be the spdif inputs if you can get hold of gear with spdif I/O.

[BAMF]

You're welcome.

2 things are becoming apparent here... either the 2496 is faulty or the BXR line output is faulty as well.

starfugger's routing mimics my own musings when I had my own ART (BAMF! did you change the tube on the V3 studio yet?). If you have an outboard preamp like the ART or even a Behringer MIC200, you can try the same experiment. If the signal is ok with an outboard, then the BXR is suspect.

Next thing to test should be the spdif inputs if you can get hold of gear with spdif I/O.

Uhhh not yet...the old tube still has serviceable life in it and sounds good. I think that's how tubes that are about to expire are. So long as its not vibrated or tapped when being used, it sounds great. But the EI tube you gave me for it is here. Somewhere. .

[acidtest]

This is really weird...

I struggled with this card since i bought it. i used 4 different software (cubase sx 4 and studio 4, sonar 6 and finally nuendo 3.  

Here's what happened so far....

sx3 and and studio 4 - cyclic distortion/ weak signal

sonar - 'kulob' , overcompressed sound - (without any outboard compression)

nuendo - oks!.... but theres a catch. i need two inputs working at the same time for it to work properly. the delta 1/2 and the onboard line in. the delta is a bit ahead the onboard when the tracks are recorded. i also need to use non-maudio asio drivers for it to happen.

if i use only the maudio, sync problems occurs. the waveform lands a 16th or 32nd count (at 110 bpm tempo) ahead of the actual execution and will have the same problem  as sx and studio 4 - distortion. tried this using the mixer and direct from the preamp - same outcome.  at least i now know that the mixer is good. tried moving to another slot in the mobo - same. even tried DIY-ing a cover for the sound card so the video card fan's output wont 'cook' the soundcard - no effect.

just before giving up and calling the vendor (another forumite) to return the card, i tried something. i used a different asio than the one that came with maudio (i'll confirm when i get home) and it showed several devices for the inputs. tried activating both the delta 1/2 and the onboard's rear input then recorded a track - each simultaneously. the delta is connected to the mixer's main out while the onboard is connected to the mixer's record out. the meters and the waveform on the gui showed latency during tracking but the audio is right on cue. the waveform also shows the healthy looking mounds than the flat line i keep getting earlier.  (to be continued when i get home)

[acidtest]

Its really frustrating since I have a deadline to catch back then.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=736032

These are my first two attempts to record with the 2496. (After I get it to work of course)
'We Care' and 'One Step Higher'
I already submitted these so there is no going back unless the 'client' asked for further editing.
Any suggestions about the mix would be more than welcome.

[acidtest]

it seems im not the only one ---- http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?t=11411

[3650guy]

the only time i had a problem with this card is when is was fooling around the settings and resulted in a bit of distortion with softsynths. reinstalling the drivers or relocating the card to another pci slot did not help. so i did a cmos reset and removed the battery from the pc motherboard, and left it overnight. next morning amidst fears that i had trashed the card, i reinserted the battery, loaded my bios settings and voila 'twas working again.

[acidtest]

i think i've finally fixed this.  i've been using the latest driver since day one and never bothered to try something else. the website states its for xp sp3 so i used it. was able to tame the behavior to certain level and just tried to live with it until i tried a new condeser mic. (thinking i got this far and be content with 'pwede na yan'? no way) i uninstalled it and installed an older driver instead. viola - no more erratic behavior! i forgot to mention from my earlier posts that i cant get it to work using the maudio asio and i was forced to use something else. its working with no issues (so far) now. been playing with it with my new at2020 mic and a couple of people as 'beta testers'  tried with the miked guitar amp, guitars direct to pre amp, vocals, and acoustic guitar. will try with the bass and maybe even drums later. hehe. reason appears to be working better on rewire too... now lets find out more on this drumagog thing... 

[starfugger]

congrats