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Author Topic: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?  (Read 4340 times)

Offline acidtest

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Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« on: August 19, 2009, 08:22:07 PM »
Planning to buy one of these for my home studio. Should I buy this or should I save my money for something else?

Everything else seems to be too expensive. Any suggestions?
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 04:34:31 AM »
Planning to buy one of these for my home studio. Should I buy this or should I save my money for something else?

Everything else seems to be too expensive. Any suggestions?

Yung MS20 iniisnab-isnab ko lang dati yan. Till this summer, a friend brought an MS20 to a beach party. Taena no...buong buo din pala ang bass ! At may S/PDIF in pa so if your soundcard is an M-audio or anything with an S/PDIF, you can go digital direct.

It really depends how "serious" you are with monitors. For one, any monitor that has tone controls is already iffy, unless you're willing to "tune" it together with your room. Pero ewan ko, I don't think there's such as thing as really flat monitors. Even the revered NS10's have a presence peak.
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Offline acidtest

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 11:02:23 AM »
Well, 'serious' is subjective. Even though this is more of a hobby (as of now)  than anything else, I'm still using the capitalist approach. If I can produce acceptable results with these, then I don't have to buy costly high end stuff. (mouths to feed, bills to pay the works...)
I'm also using an maudio card which I took in consideration for selecting this model. (optical out!)

If there's no such thing as a really flat studio monitor, then my next question is, are these things workable? or Are they 'fairly accurate' enough to make 'good' mixing decision? 
From the 'research' I've done since god knows when, studio monitors still beats consumer stereo systems.

I've mixed these (first two on the list) using a run-off-the-mill jvc stereo system.(the ones with the cd changer, two tape decks, really large knobs for subwoofer levels, and all the dazzling, flashing lights that's annoying when i'm trying too sleep) 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=736032
Please tell me I'm doing something right or at least I'm on the right road.

To tell the truth, I'm not even sure I'm capable of recognizing the sound from a set of flat response speakers. I think I've grown too accustomed to the colored sound from my home stereo and I am also partially deaf (mid high to high freq) due to years of playing guitars too loud. (confirmed this with a doctor after undergoing a series of tests) I also keep using the relative mix approach. (i don't have a choice anyway) I compare the project I'm working on with an existing song from the same genre. I'll still use the same technique anyway after i acquired a pair monitors.

Another thing, I've read somewhere that most behringer stuff are clones of something else. any idea which product its trying to emulate? 
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline peeves24

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 11:23:43 AM »
napakingan ko yung mix mo, hindi ka matutulungan nung ms40 kasi parang pareho lang yung tunog nun sa current setup mo.

medyo contradicting yung impression ko ke bamf kasi galing din ako behringer ms20. unang una, bitin ang power ang ms40 at ms20. they are far from flat. masyadong hifi. kulang sa bass.

save mo na lang yung pera mo to improve your room. mas malaking bagay yun kesa magpalit ng monitor kung hobby lang din ang usapan. medyo bass heavy yung mixes mo at malaking tulong yung paglalagay ng bass trap


butttt im not a pro. fellow hobbyist lang din so take my advice with a grain of salt

Offline acidtest

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 02:07:29 PM »
Thanks for the replies!
about the bass traps, i'll be renovating the 'room' (its actually the sala) sooner or later and already have plans about acoustic treatments. (nothing grand of course) sort of incorporating the treatment to the design to minimize high freq reverb. (some units of architecture actually helped on this)
Regarding the bass heavy mix, thanks. i'm really having a hard time recognizing the amount of bass i'm supposed to apply on those projects. again, it may be related to the monitor/speakers and the room. it sounded pretty bass 'flat or even dehydrated' from here since i try to remove most of it knowing the stereo system is inclined to go 'bass-y'. (even on the flattest setting it can get) another problem is i have a couple of bassists for 'critics and consultants' to the mixing process.
other than bass heavy, any other problem with the mix? are the tracks clear and detailed enough? i believe these versions are too loud. i wasnt able to trim it down before sending it to the 'client' due to a deadline...
anyway if not the ms40, any other suggestions that wont kill my wallet? how about the maudio bx5a? its over the budget but if the quality is really different then i may able to work something out...
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511


Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 09:06:11 PM »
Choosing reference monitors is a matter of trust. You have to be able to trust them. Re: the Behringer MS20, it was used to play music from an Ipod and yeah, hindi nagdi-disperse ang kick drum and bass guitar sounds...as long as wag mo lang lakasan beyond the physical capability ng puny 3 inch woofers nya. At the end of the day, Physics should be on your side.

Yes Studiophile BX5's are a good choice. Don't even think about getting anything smaller like an MS40 (with 4 inch monitors) it will not give you a correct idea of the bass response. Again, physics na ang kalaban mo dun.

Other not-so-expensive monitors that you can trust are the Samson Resolv 65a and 80a series. I can hear stuff on these that are "invisible" to hi-fi systems...lam mo yun ultimo sabit ng gitara na hindi dinig sa ordinary sound systems, litaw dito.

One more not-so-expensive but good choice is the Alesis M1 Active monitors.

What seems to be the holy grail of not-so-expensive reference monitors are the KRK Rokit 5 and up series, sama mo na newer models. I've read reviews of these and while the Rokit5 only gets a moderate thumbs up because of its high bass cutoff frequency, its bigger sisters get a standing ovation.

You can also try the Samson Rubicon series. These have been bench-tested against other monitors and held their own. They're more expensive than others but well worth the money.

You can also try to audition the Samson Mediaone series. They're relatively inexpensive as monitors go.

For the room, note that you should not position your speakes closer than 3 feet from a wall, otherwise you will get a bass-heavy sound, more like double than what the speaker is actually putting out. So you have to set-up somewhere in the middle of the room.

Again, don't get anything less than 5 inches. Mabibitin kalang. Teka that sounded so gay...  :mrgreen:


Thanks for the replies!
about the bass traps, i'll be renovating the 'room' (its actually the sala) sooner or later and already have plans about acoustic treatments. (nothing grand of course) sort of incorporating the treatment to the design to minimize high freq reverb. (some units of architecture actually helped on this)
Regarding the bass heavy mix, thanks. i'm really having a hard time recognizing the amount of bass i'm supposed to apply on those projects. again, it may be related to the monitor/speakers and the room. it sounded pretty bass 'flat or even dehydrated' from here since i try to remove most of it knowing the stereo system is inclined to go 'bass-y'. (even on the flattest setting it can get) another problem is i have a couple of bassists for 'critics and consultants' to the mixing process.
other than bass heavy, any other problem with the mix? are the tracks clear and detailed enough? i believe these versions are too loud. i wasnt able to trim it down before sending it to the 'client' due to a deadline...
anyway if not the ms40, any other suggestions that wont kill my wallet? how about the maudio bx5a? its over the budget but if the quality is really different then i may able to work something out...
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline jamming_papu

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 11:10:15 PM »
try http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1811&brandID=2 or this one http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1961&brandID=2. way better design than MS40. just a little more expensive.

and no, MS40 is not worth me money.  :-P
“Man, you don't have to play a whole lot of notes. You just have to play the pretty ones.”
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Offline acidtest

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 01:24:01 PM »
been checking the audiophile website and I found out that the mediaone 4a is cheaper than the ms40. but this one only has 4 inch cones. if i follow sir bamf's rule of the thumb about 5 inch speakers, then i should go for the mediaone 5a which is priced like the ms40 but way cheaper than the bx5s. well, i think i have a winner here. the downside is i cant find a review on the net about the 5a's. 4a's has good reviews though...
again thanks for the replies!
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2009, 12:27:35 AM »
Just to help, I wrote about how I tuned my control room using a graphic equaizer and an SPL meter.

Last article. You might want to check out the gobos (acoustic absorption baffles) as well

doghousestudio.webs.com/articles.htm
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline acidtest

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 08:18:59 AM »
i read the article and it gave me some ideas for the room acoustics. although the most of the terms sounds greek to me (on the room tuning part) i think i understand a fair amount of it. i dont think i can go that far though. (even if i want too) maybe if i earn 5-10 times of what i earn now is a different matter of course.  :-D

i think i'll settle for the mediaone 5a. most probably by next payday. i dont want to compromise the bank just in case something unexpected or important comes up...

as always, thanks for the replies!
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline peeves24

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 10:34:50 AM »
ganyan din ako dati, akala ko better gear = better mixes. somewhat true but it you have a lousy room, no amount of better gear will help you hear what your room is covering up.

pre room acoustics > new monitors

Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 06:09:36 PM »
Aww. You just need 1 equalizer man, it only costs 2 thousand for the cheapest of those. 4 thousand will buy you a relatively decent one.

If you're going to be really serious about mixing and stuff, you cannot escape having to study the dynamics of sound, which includes frequency. Maybe you'll even end up having to memorize certain bands of frequencies that correspond to certain instruments and certain "effects" (e.g. 40Hz and below is "rumble", 16kHz is "air")

If you don't tune your room, masisira lang ulo mo kasi, when you bring your work out and play it on different systems, there will be frequencies that are over-accentuated or depressed, even when those things sound "fine" on your system.  But don't believe me, ask the "up there" pros like Astrobog and nightskydrama.



i read the article and it gave me some ideas for the room acoustics. although the most of the terms sounds greek to me (on the room tuning part) i think i understand a fair amount of it. i dont think i can go that far though. (even if i want too) maybe if i earn 5-10 times of what i earn now is a different matter of course.  :-D

i think i'll settle for the mediaone 5a. most probably by next payday. i dont want to compromise the bank just in case something unexpected or important comes up...

as always, thanks for the replies!
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline acidtest

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 05:47:57 AM »
Aww. You just need 1 equalizer man, it only costs 2 thousand for the cheapest of those. 4 thousand will buy you a relatively decent one.

If you're going to be really serious about mixing and stuff, you cannot escape having to study the dynamics of sound, which includes frequency. Maybe you'll even end up having to memorize certain bands of frequencies that correspond to certain instruments and certain "effects" (e.g. 40Hz and below is "rumble", 16kHz is "air")

If you don't tune your room, masisira lang ulo mo kasi, when you bring your work out and play it on different systems, there will be frequencies that are over-accentuated or depressed, even when those things sound "fine" on your system.  But don't believe me, ask the "up there" pros like Astrobog and nightskydrama.




I actually have an eq. a mono channel dbx 2031 equalizer/limiter nr3. i use this in tandem (thru an aux/send) with a digitech rack effect processor more on (would you believe?) - videoke sessions when some non-band friends comes over.(once in a blue moon)  a stereo/2 channel version for the output (if i understand the article) would have been preferable but it wont be anytime soon. i try to record audio as dry as possible so i simply turn them off from the mixer during tracking. i totally agree with the study part and try to read as much as i can when i have time. (google, wiki and audio forums) i've been noticing this 'accentuated frequencies behavior' for sometime and i just dont know how to call/deal with it. (ei: what notes makes the snare rattle, the 'd/re' note tends to produce an annoying hum when played, the high freq reverb on some 'birit' parts, etc...)    

by the way the device (spl meter?) for tuning the room, can i use it on the input stage during recording? i mean if i place an eq in the input stage to get rid of unwanted frequencies (for room correction purposes of course) as opposed to recording dry, would that help? it would take some time to put in practice what i've read on your article so i have to work with what i have for now.

ot: im still having a bit of trouble with my delta 2496 from my other thread but i found out that this is issue is not unique. http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?t=11411
i'll update that thread too but just in case, care to share your thoughts on this?

by the way nice new look for philmusic! easier to hide on the workplace. hehehhe.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 05:50:53 AM by acidtest »
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline peeves24

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 08:43:43 AM »
meron ding free room analyzers. i use this http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

kaya lang kailangan malakas yung monitors mo para macalibrate ng tama yung mic sa room. nakakabinging level nung una kong ginawa, nagalit ata yung kapitbahay  :-D kasi hindi pa naman soundproofed yung istudyo-istudyohan ko

Offline KitC

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 08:45:05 AM »
Peeves, did you use the ECM8000 for calibration?
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 08:50:43 AM »
Ngapala I forgot to tell you. You can also do this entirely in software. Use a multi-band parametric or graphic plugin like waves parametric EQ. Then use a measurement mike like ECM8000. Get the response curve using a spectral analyzer plugin such as waves Frequency. Then when you're done setting up the flattening curve, save it as a preset and instantiate the EQ it in the main output channel (the M-audio master out channel).
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Offline KitC

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2009, 08:58:16 AM »
Jobet, went to your site (doghouse). Listened to pillowcase.... ya got PM.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline peeves24

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2009, 09:07:29 AM »
mxl v67g sir kit. wala akong omni e. multiple measurements using different locations na lang to compensate

Offline KitC

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2009, 09:26:57 AM »
mxl v67g sir kit. wala akong omni e. multiple measurements using different locations na lang to compensate

The mxl could introduce a bit of coloration. I know that mxl (mine included) is a bit harsh in the high end, so that could skew your results a bit. I wonder how much the ECM is now.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2009, 11:40:21 AM »
I think it's 8 thousand if I remember correctly. Last time I used one I borrowed MarvinQ's. I think I'll need to borrow it again...

Can I proceed to scalarize your V67 Boskit ? Hehehe. Let's remove the harsh.
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline KitC

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2009, 02:56:01 PM »
Go ahead, Jobet!

BTW, Marvin is keen on getting rid of his Phonic Tube VocalMax. ya interested?
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 02:24:35 AM »
Go ahead, Jobet!

BTW, Marvin is keen on getting rid of his Phonic Tube VocalMax. ya interested?

Oh it's a preamp. I'm good na as far as pres go. My next tube project after I finish the Trainwreck and Dlite will be a Pulltec MB1. Let's see if high plate voltages really do make a difference...
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline acidtest

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2009, 04:26:14 PM »
Just purchased the Samson mediaone 5a from Audiophile and im still in the 'testing' stage.
I'm new with this monitors thing (my first one) but i got to say that i do hear stuff i wasn't able to hear before. this thing is also loud! maybe twice as loud as the jvc stereo system with a pair speakers slightly larger. and finally... i tried listening to my mixdowns and i came quite close in kicking myself in the a$$. the mixdowns really sound horrible! well, back to the drawing board (faders) then!  :-D
- Joyo AC tone demo

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032  
feature=related  KBP musicfest teaser - 'Nandito lang' - entry number w00511

Offline KitC

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2009, 05:51:14 PM »
These Mackie MR5s have got me interested: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Mackie-MR5-Active-Studio-Monitor?sku=603999&src=3TP9JY2



And at $149 each, I'm VERY interested.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline BAMF

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Re: Behringer MS 40: Is this worth it?
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2009, 10:09:42 AM »
These Mackie MR5s have got me interested: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Mackie-MR5-Active-Studio-Monitor?sku=603999&src=3TP9JY2



And at $149 each, I'm VERY interested.

Wow. Thats just like 15 thou a pair or so. Mackie is throwing its hat into the low-budget ring. This I gotta hear.
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633