When mixing demos, with reverb and other time modulations or not?

[acidtest]

First things first, I hope that there isn't an existing thread on this matter and if there is, I apologize for not being able to read it first.

Somebody once told that when submitting demo mixes on labels that I should make them as dry as possible. No reverbs or any time based modulations. Is this wise? Is this the industry standard? or is this some sort of a myth?

I play the guitars on my band and since I'm the one who got nerdy on the technical stuff, also double up as the 'recording engineer'. (for lack of any sub-professional term out there.) It’s known that reverbs and it's pals are commonly used to hide the short-comings of the lay-in tracks or most specially - the vocal track. I'm quite confident with my singer's voice, it's just that I also think that the 80's is one of the best things that happened in world of music. (I was a small kid back then who like the music for music's sake before the advent of genre prejudice and stereotype that is common on teenage years.)

Back then its sort of an art to create impossibly long modulations that still reverberates in my head three decades later. (ex. foreign - Phil Collins, James Ingram, Julia Fordham, and Peter Cetera - he sounds as if he swallowed a chorus device or something, Gary V. on local - reverb device on his case) Maybe it's just my preference or the timbre of the voice, but I really do think that my mixes sounds better with all the effects and everything. (I have no illusions on bringing back the 80's. It's impossible.) Why then should I submit the demo dry if I can submit it with all it's strengths intact knowing it (the song/mix itself) will stand a better chance? 

Maybe it's somebody else's job to put those things in? Or maybe there's a sort of trend against this kind of thing? or maybe I'm just listening at wrong side of the wall...
(Anyway, I'm not in a rock band. Nothing against rock though. I even prefer it if I have my way... it's not a perfect world after all...)

I can upload a sample of the song later but not yet. (maybe in a few days time) I do my recording/mixing on a separate internet/LAN isolated pc for fear of virus/worm contamination that can potentially well - destroy hours or days of work. (and frankly other than the email mode, I really don't how yet. down sampling and everything... )
       
Any help, opinions and suggestions is welcome. Thanks!

[starfugger]

mix it till it sounds good ... use all effects necessary to achieve this end   if it's a demo it would primarily be used to ...err... demonstrate the structure of the song, the melody and the lyrics, not to mention your musicianship and playing prowess.  chances are it will not be used for commercial release, and even if it were, they would still look for multi-track files to remix (apply effects, balance, pan, automate, etc). 

so yes, use effects on your demos, knock 'em dead! 

[mikep]

+ 100 for starfugger's comments.  There is no such rule that you have to give your demoes as dry as it can be.  Mix them with the best sound you can come up with.

FWIW

[marvinq]

actually, the quality of demos (well, at least audio quality-wise if not contenet-wise) have been improving, due to the fact that more people are able to access audio tools (via software or really affordable hardware) that were previously very costly or impossible to find.

[KitC]

Wasn't it Charles Dye who said, "Mix It Like a Record"? FYI, there are some demos that get released as is, or with very few additions. Point is, one should try to get a demo as close to the the mastering stage as possible. With the advent of affordable studio technology nowadays, this is quite achievable.

[acidtest]

Thanks to everyone who answered! It's really a great help to hear from you. I'm still learning the ropes on the demo thing and this site really is a fountain of information. I'm not really expecting the demo go commercial. I don't have the right equipment to record it in the first place. Just enough for every instrument to be real. (a real headache to record drums! and that's without specialized drum mics.) I then tweaked it to sound the genre it's closest to and mixed it down so that every instrument can be clearly heard or at least - be heard. It just happened it sounded 80's so...  (the reverb thing)

Anyway, I do have another question. How long is the industry standard length of a song? Is the 3 1/2 to 4 mins ceilling in effect? I heard that the studio brass chop off sections of a song to fit to this time requirement. Some sort of radio airtime standard. I modified most of our songs for this and it kinda suck to hear arrangements i worked so hard to come up get dismembered. Well the lyrics too. We have a lot to tell and requires a lot of words to tell it so...  

[marvinq]

the 3.5 - 4 minute limit was because that was the time provided by the 45rpm single. as a general rule, KISS - keep it short and simple. your song has better chances of getting noticed in a world of decreasing attention spans.

[x_taxi]

the 3.5 - 4 minute limit was because that was the time provided by the 45rpm single. as a general rule, KISS - keep it short and simple. your song has better chances of getting noticed in a world of decreasing attention spans.

+1

got my demo reel at 30 secs per track.  perfect for a demo reel of your musical cues/genre if you're into the musical scorer side of things.

 

[KitC]

the 3.5 - 4 minute limit was because that was the time provided by the 45rpm single. as a general rule, KISS - keep it short and simple. your song has better chances of getting noticed in a world of decreasing attention spans.

Is there an ADD epidemic? What will happen to the prog rockers? 

[acidtest]

        I finally get to upload a sample! I lowered the settings though. I hope you can bear with the loss of quality. This thing clocked 4:41, a really unacceptable length according to the rules. I have already taken care of the copyright work from an earlier attempt of this piece along with four of it's friends. Again, I'm looking forward to your opinions and suggestions. Thanks!!!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032


(there's this account clearing thing at soundclick so I'm not sure if this is accessible immediately. I'm doing too many things for the first time in a small period of time...)

[marvinq]

Is there an ADD epidemic? What will happen to the prog rockers? 

well, they're still not on the radio... haha

[starfugger]

Thanks to everyone who answered! It's really a great help to hear from you. I'm still learning the ropes on the demo thing and this site really is a fountain of information. I'm not really expecting the demo go commercial. I don't have the right equipment to record it in the first place. Just enough for every instrument to be real. (a real headache to record drums! and that's without specialized drum mics.) I then tweaked it to sound the genre it's closest to and mixed it down so that every instrument can be clearly heard or at least - be heard. It just happened it sounded 80's so...  (the reverb thing)

Anyway, I do have another question. How long is the industry standard length of a song? Is the 3 1/2 to 4 mins ceilling in effect? I heard that the studio brass chop off sections of a song to fit to this time requirement. Some sort of radio airtime standard. I modified most of our songs for this and it kinda suck to hear arrangements i worked so hard to come up get dismembered. Well the lyrics too. We have a lot to tell and requires a lot of words to tell it so...  

"murder your babies"  i don't know where ive heard that one before (probably from another forumite)  but it sums up how  it is sometimes necessary to take out certain parts of a song in the name of MOTION ... or whatever.  im not an arranger, just a lay person making an observation

[skunkyfunk]

the 3.5 - 4 minute limit was because that was the time provided by the 45rpm single. as a general rule, KISS - keep it short and simple. your song has better chances of getting noticed in a world of decreasing attention spans.

Is there an ADD epidemic? What will happen to the prog rockers? 

A recent study showed that the average listener presses the >> button every 1 minute and 30 seconds...   

[acidtest]

 "murder your babies"  i don't know where ive heard that one before (probably from another forumite)  but it sums up how  it is sometimes necessary to take out certain parts of a song in the name of MOTION ... or whatever.  im not an arranger, just a lay person making an observation

yeah... kindda feel like that...

A recent study showed that the average listener presses the >> button every 1 minute and 30 seconds...   

Now that's interesting! I'll keep this one on my mind.

Anyway, It appears that most of the people who answered this thread are also the ones with the know - how on recording and mixing.  Since that's the case, I would like to ask for your opinion (again) on well, everything! (what I did good and what i did bad) Or better yet, how can I improve this mix. Thanks again.

(there's a hissing sound that really bothers me. the problem is i can't get rid of it.)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=736032

By the way, what's ADD?

[marvinq]

attention deficit disorder.

[acidtest]

attention deficit disorder.

ohh... i see. thanks