TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: gainsucker on August 15, 2012, 11:40:33 AM
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or you finally learned how to adjust action, intonation, change pickups, etc.
i understand, yung iba takot galawin yung guitar pag mamahalin pero pay P500 for intonation? ganun ba talaga kahirap mag intonate?
change of nut here costs P2k pesos.... sakit sa bulsa.
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Basic to intermediate setup, usually I do it by myself except for pickup changes, medyo alanganin ako maghinang.
Now for the intonation, hindi siya ganun kahirap but it needs a trained ear to do it. I myself do not rely on a tuner solely when intonating my guitars, aside from that it is time consuming. Try to intonate a floyd-rose equipped guitar and you'll know what I mean.
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intonation is easy peasy.
adjust height kinakapa ko na lang san ako komportable. naiinis lang ako ngaun nawala ung 1/2" ko na allen...
now for other stuff.... nagpapaturo ako kay jentsen para makatipid. mahal dito eh :-D
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Try to intonate a floyd-rose equipped guitar and you'll know what I mean.
buti na lang wala ako floyd guitar :lol:
nasasayangan lang ako sa pera for basic set up, oh well, pag marami namang pera ok lang yun :wink:
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ah sa floyd kay mark na lang ako papaturo :-D ginawa ko dati un sa unang gitara, di ko na maibalik. tapos dito sa isa ko ngaun nagpatulong ako langya ang hirap gawin. katakot... :eek:
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wala kasi masyadong budget to have my guitars set-up by luthiers T.T kaya tiis tiis nlng ako sa config ng mga gitara ko ngayon haha
Yung truss rod hindi ko ginagalaw kasi natatakot ako baka masira ko lang.
May konting idea lang ako about setting up the intonation. Any tips on how to intonate a guitar properly? Ang ginagawa ko kasi nakatuner lang tapso inaadjust ko hanggang nasa tune lahat ng frets. Ok na ba yung ganun?
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Mahirap kasi makipagsapalaran pagdating sa gitara mas malaki ang gastos kapag nasira kesa ipagawa sa marunong.
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Some luthiers just have that magic touch. Setting intonation isn't just simply matching the 12 fret harmonic to the 12 fret depressed note. Truss rod adjustment, nut height, pickup height, saddle height and other factors all have to be precise so the touch (action and tension of strings) and intonation is great all through out the fretboard.
I just had some guitars set up but because of the humidity these days, the set up was altered. Will have to fine tune them again myself. Sayang binayad ko recently. :cry: So kung minor adjustments lang, I suggest you guys do it yourself muna. The air is too moist.
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Basic set-up and soldering, I can do it. Refret and others that require tools i don't have, I take it to micsis. :-D
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gusto ko magpa-setup ng gitara matagal na kaso namamahalan ako. i'd like to think na sinuswerte lang ako kasi both guitars i bought brand new were setup very well out of the box. aside from that i have this feeling na pag dinala ko siya sa luthier madaming ipo-point out na mali sa setup.
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I do basic setups only on fender guitar. but on les paul/sg I can't seem the grasp how to do it correctly.. :lol:
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I do, I'm not complaining though. But I do want to learn how to do it.
How about somebody conduct a (mini) workshop? :)
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i understand, yung iba takot galawin yung guitar pag mamahalin pero pay P500 for intonation? ganun ba talaga kahirap mag intonate?
It's hard to say. But based on my observation, many of us underestimate how difficult it is to actually get it. I've seen it a number of times -- guitar players confident with how they intonated their own guitars. But the moment they start soloing over the high frets... ayaw ko na makinig, lalo na pag band setting.
I've seen it lead to people blaming the hardware and/or the electronics as well. This leads to pickup upgrades and whatnot. When that happens, many players don't have the sense to be particular with height and polepiece adjustments either. They end up with souped up, yet still bad sounding guitars. When that happens, for some people, it's off to the Guitar Classifieds! :wave:
We are lucky here in the Philippines. We have bonafide luthiers who charge for peanuts, unlike in other countries where they would've made a fortune doing what they do. I say take advantage of it. And if possible, learn from them. Then just maybe, we can start getting the hang of set up fundamentals.
gusto ko magpa-setup ng gitara matagal na kaso namamahalan ako. i'd like to think na sinuswerte lang ako kasi both guitars i bought brand new were setup very well out of the box.
I've seen so many new guitars. Nearly all of them needed at least some degree of tweaking. In my experience with my own gear, isang beses pa lang ako nakabili ng bagong gitara na wala nang gusto galawin yung luthier ko. That eventually didn't happen either, because I had pickups installed and more importantly, our nice Philippine climate wreaked havoc on its bracing. So ayun, major repair and setup din in the end.
Still, I'm in no position to doubt your assessment. Maybe you really are lucky.
aside from that i have this feeling na pag dinala ko siya sa luthier madaming ipo-point out na mali sa setup.
Medyo masakit nga sa pride. I know the feeling. But this is actually a good thing. Even if you opt not to have it set up. At least you can try studying what is wrong on your own. You still might not be able to correct things on your own. You might even ruin your guitar if you try too hard. But at least you have a chance of understanding the theory behind it.
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or you finally learned how to adjust action, intonation, change pickups, etc.
i understand, yung iba takot galawin yung guitar pag mamahalin pero pay P500 for intonation? ganun ba talaga kahirap mag intonate?
change of nut here costs P2k pesos.... sakit sa bulsa.
Bring yer guitars to Max Rufo and you won't see these numbers. :razz: :idea:
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or you finally learned how to adjust action, intonation, change pickups, etc.
i understand, yung iba takot galawin yung guitar pag mamahalin pero pay P500 for intonation? ganun ba talaga kahirap mag intonate?
change of nut here costs P2k pesos.... sakit sa bulsa.
Dito 300 pesos, 8-10 nuts na, may bulalo pa.
I learned. It's fun kasi.
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Dito 300 pesos, 8-10 nuts na, may bulalo pa.
I learned. It's fun kasi.
Ah yes! The bulalo nut.
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learned except for pickups. I am too afraid to touch the electronic part of the guitar since i have sweaty hands :drool:
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@mojoefly / Al - you guys nailed it.
I spend money to get the right setup, because it is not as simple as tuning the 12th fret harmonic with the 12th fretted note as mojoefly pointed out.
But I do sometimes tinker with my guitars (and others' guitars) to learn. When I setup for my friends, I still do tell them to go to luthiers to have the "right" setup. Right setup means right notes ringing all over the fretboard, great playablity and feel (radius match, right string tension, pickup balance, string balance).
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the only thing i spend now is time..and the time spent to gain the knowledge is well worth it,
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yup. ang hassle masyado ng floyd rose..hahaha! :lol:
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kung kaya i-DIY ,. why not ,.
pero iba parin minsan ang touch ng luthiers :eek: ,.
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Cash + access to an ace guitar technician = walang busisi at mistakes sa pag set-up ng gitara
One problem off my mind. The only thing to do is plug and play!
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i always perform basic setups for my guitars. but when it comes to fret levels, refrets, refinishing, and electronics, i bring it to a luthier. for those who don't know how to set up guitars on their own, make it a point to learn from your luthier the basic principles behind the repairs. any guitar tech--kahit gaano pa kagaling yan--pag nahalata nilang wala kang alam sa ano kelangan ayusin at anong desired outcome, pwedeng pwede ka bolahin lang niyan, naperahan ka pa.
as a rule of thumb, no guitar can have absolutely perfect intonation across all strings all over the fretboard (anyone might make a case for true temperament fretboards, but let's not get there). several other setup factors like action, truss rod adjustment, string gauge, the age of the strings, and how you tune can all have an effect on the guitar's overall intonation. once i've individually tweaked the setup of each string, what i do is compensate with the overall tuning integrity of the guitar. this often involves playing chords high up the neck as well as chord voicings with open strings involved. this is one reason why i don't rely on a tuner for the succeeding strings once i've gotten the low E right. oftentimes i end up tuning the other strings inconspicuously sharp from the root key, but the dissonance actually contributes to a well-balanced buitar.
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I learned how to shape/sand bone nuts and bridges from blanks to get a better understanding of how it is done, and I'm glad to note that Micsis approves of some of my, er, work :wave: :lol: Not that I can't afford to have set ups done, but it IS quite fun to learn, and for me, I as much as possible try to figure out a problem on a guitar first before bringing it to a pro. Intonation jobs I can also do to a certain extent (especially on strats) out of necessity because I live so far away from Paranaque. But there are certain things that I tried to do, quite unsuccesfully. Soldering is something I leave to Micsis and crew, ditto adjusting truss rods or fret dressing. Maybe someday I will find the time to learn these things from Micsis and crew.
Chum
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kung kaya i-DIY ,. why not ,.
Because you can do more harm than good if you don't really know what you're doing.
pero iba parin minsan ang touch ng luthiers :eek: ,.
Hindi lang minsan.
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any guitar tech--kahit gaano pa kagaling yan--pag nahalata nilang wala kang alam sa ano kelangan ayusin at anong desired outcome, pwedeng pwede ka bolahin lang niyan, naperahan ka pa.
But as someone who plays guitar, I think you'll know if the luthier is pulling a fast one on you, especially if something doesn't sound right. If that's what's happening, one is always free to look for another luthier. Para na rin yung driver na ipaparepair sa mekaniko yung sasakyan. Mahahalata pa rin namang hindi maganda ang pagka-repair ng sasakyan kung medyo may mararamdaman yung driver na mali ang tunog o kaya pagtakbo ng makina, etc.
Also as a consumer, you have a right to go back to the luthier anyway to have him rectify what you've found as a result of your fault isolation. They're supposed to provide satisfaction to their customers anyway.
So far I've found my luthier to be very trustworthy and informative of what my guitar needs. He's always aware of the fact that he'll be getting business from me in the future, so his reputation has to always be at stake when making repairs to my guitars.
My caveat of course is that I'm speaking from personal experience.
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Because you can do more harm than good if you don't really know what you're doing.
I suddenly remembered my botched attempts to refin, fret level, crown frets, nut shaping, etc etc :x :eek: LOL! Making mistakes really is a part of learning. Hahaha! :-P
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*ouch*
That's got to be a really expensive lesson.
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Just wanna share my PRS SE CUSTOM JUN CASTRO SIG
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6384/img1016pd.jpg)
got my guitar from Jun Castro, a total overhaul for my loved one. My PRS SE CUSTOM 22 in GRAY BLACK.
REVIEW:
There hasn't been much love for my PRS this past few weeks because i effin Fcuked up my graphtech nut. i have been to other luthiers, the one i have a bad experience, the other one in sta mesa was too far for me (had good experience with him, i had a custom tele from him before). So i was browsing philmusic and i remembered Mr Jun Castro.
Its a mistake that i went to him last. His talent in setting up guitars are superb. Did i mention his ears are good too?
so i brought my PRS to him, and told him everything he needs to know about it. he then diagnosed my problem. one of it was my intonation. HUH? i always thought i was super OC about guitar set up, especially intonation, up to the very minute cent.
reality bites, he did not tell me i was wrong. HE SHOWED ME. suddenly my ears opened up. OO NGA ANO, hindi papala ganun ka intonated ang guitar ko.
another thing. output from my pickups were not balanced. he showed me, i heard it. another light bulb moment. i thougt ok na yung out of the box dimarzio, i dint bother to change the pole pieces. akala ko walang diff yun, at ok lang na wag i adjust.
well then we talked and talked about guitars, set ups, and what nots. i stayed there very long. i was listening and gaining knowledge from him while he was asessing my guitar. really nice guy.
Someone really has to teach you that face to face. We don't know how sensitive you are to discerning differences in pitch. I mean a lot of us initially believe we are sensitive enough. I certainly thought I was. But in reality, that is not always the true case. I start having trouble making out differences in pitch when bending an eighth of a step.
Relying on an electronic tuner might even do more harm than good. They usually have difficulty tracking differences between octaves.
I agree with Al.
I've tried intonating solely using tuners, but i never get entirely satisfied with the results, for some reason.
Jun, on the other hand, is very keen on measurements, just as much as the actual intonation (tuning) of the frets. I guess thats the value added from a bona fide luthier.
one of the first things he does is check kung "tama yung sukat" ng gitara mo. i.e. the fret spacing, the bridge, and the nut. kung may issues about the measurements, iaadjust nya yung nut mo, if it can't be compensated by the bridge.
i can also attest that he doesn't solely rely on measurements and tuners to intonate. he "sweetens" his tuning para maganda resonance ng mga nota, esp. when playing chords sa upper registers. benchmark lang nya yung tuner. pag saliwa sa tenga yung result, Jun will tweak it further.
It's hard to explain, but it's not magic. Neither is it always perfect. but all i know is that it works for me.
Plus he's a straight-up nice guy to deal with, who makes an effort to get to know you and your likes and dislikes. so when you hand him a guitar to work on, he will know what you want from it. so i guess that adds to the experience.
These replies really intrigued me for the last two weeks... I mean, I could spare some money to have my guitar set-up... But those priceless knowledge they MAY impart to you? That's priceless... It's something not only you would keep for yourself, but also something you could use to keep yourself from sounding bad... I wouldn't want to make Sir Al Librero cringe..
It's hard to say. But based on my observation, many of us underestimate how difficult it is to actually get it. I've seen it a number of times -- guitar players confident with how they intonated their own guitars. But the moment they start soloing over the high frets... ayaw ko na makinig, lalo na pag band setting.
I've seen it lead to people blaming the hardware and/or the electronics as well. This leads to pickup upgrades and whatnot. When that happens, many players don't have the sense to be particular with height and polepiece adjustments either. They end up with souped up, yet still bad sounding guitars. When that happens, for some people, it's off to the Guitar Classifieds! :wave:
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I suddenly remembered my botched attempts to refin, fret level, crown frets, nut shaping, etc etc :x :eek: LOL! Making mistakes really is a part of learning. Hahaha! :-P
those are part of the learning and those things along the way get so easy to replace/fix
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Some folks have the inclination to learn on their own and can bury their head down to the details that matter, and prefer it that way. Some folks can't be bothered with the trial and error and mistakes that can come with it. Most of us are a little bit of both, and it's all about the player's comfort level and where that balance of learning vs risk lies. Prefer to do my own setups, but fretwork is another ballgame I'd maybe take elsewhere first if I get around to needing it. The reason for this is simple, not everyone likes their guitars set the same way.
Should it always be intonated to absolute perfection? The guitar by virtue of its straight frets will have slight variations in temperament. Always try to get the instrument intonated, but don't lose sleep over it.
Should the pickups always be balanced in output? Depends on what you use it for and how. Some like the neck slightly hotter, some like it the bridge when rolled back to balance with a neck in full output, so you could reserve that boost when you roll up or toggle down.
Should the action be set high or low? Again, only you as the player knows where it should sit when you fret it.
Should the neck be close to straight? A bit of relief is desired if you attack the strings harder than most folks. Watch that trussrod, once a day lang in quarter turns, watch for stripped threads or difficulty in turning.
I know the good folks here in GC are talking mostly in general terms, and the info is all good. But these are just some things you might want to "talk shop" over with whoever is doing your setup. Go over the specifics, and try to pick up what you can.
My dad and my grandpa always thought every man should work on his own plumbing. But if sh*t happens, call the plumber and see what he's doing right. My brothers aren't so inclined with these things (would call the plumber every turn), but like generations of men before me, I want to know what's going on. So a big NO, I don't always spend for a setup.
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My dad and my grandpa always thought every man should work on his own plumbing. But if sh*t happens, call the plumber and see what he's doing right. My brothers aren't so inclined with these things (would call the plumber every turn), but like generations of men before me, I want to know what's going on. So a big NO, I don't always spend for a setup.
i myself try to do some work myself first, and if it's not up to par with how i envision it, i ask a pro look at it for me.
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truss rod, action and intonation I can DIY.
fret sanding and electronic sh*t I give them to the pro's. :D
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It's hard to say. But based on my observation, many of us underestimate how difficult it is to actually get it. I've seen it a number of times -- guitar players confident with how they intonated their own guitars. But the moment they start soloing over the high frets... ayaw ko na makinig, lalo na pag band setting.
I've seen it lead to people blaming the hardware and/or the electronics as well. This leads to pickup upgrades and whatnot. When that happens, many players don't have the sense to be particular with height and polepiece adjustments either. They end up with souped up, yet still bad sounding guitars. When that happens, for some people, it's off to the Guitar Classifieds! :wave:
hmm, napaisip ako dahil dito....
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yes,kc kahet ano gawin ko.di ko tlga ma setup ung guitar ko ng maayos.and wala aq tools. :-D
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After years of trial and error I'm not afraid anymore to do basic fixes on my guitars.
I can do:
Soldering
Intonation
Refinish
I've also drilled holes on my guitar when I converted the 5-way switch to 3-way toggle switch; and filled the cavity of the middle pickup because I removed it.
The only thing I haven't mastered is adjusting the truss rod.
I tried to make my own pedals but no luck. A/B looper lang ang nagawa ko XD
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It's hard to say. But based on my observation, many of us underestimate how difficult it is to actually get it. I've seen it a number of times -- guitar players confident with how they intonated their own guitars. But the moment they start soloing over the high frets... ayaw ko na makinig, lalo na pag band setting.
I've seen it lead to people blaming the hardware and/or the electronics as well. This leads to pickup upgrades and whatnot. When that happens, many players don't have the sense to be particular with height and polepiece adjustments either. They end up with souped up, yet still bad sounding guitars. When that happens, for some people, it's off to the Guitar Classifieds! :wave:
We are lucky here in the Philippines. We have bonafide luthiers who charge for peanuts, unlike in other countries where they would've made a fortune doing what they do. I say take advantage of it. And if possible, learn from them. Then just maybe, we can start getting the hang of set up fundamentals.
I've seen so many new guitars. Nearly all of them needed at least some degree of tweaking. In my experience with my own gear, isang beses pa lang ako nakabili ng bagong gitara na wala nang gusto galawin yung luthier ko. That eventually didn't happen either, because I had pickups installed and more importantly, our nice Philippine climate wreaked havoc on its bracing. So ayun, major repair and setup din in the end.
Still, I'm in no position to doubt your assessment. Maybe you really are lucky.
Medyo masakit nga sa pride. I know the feeling. But this is actually a good thing. Even if you opt not to have it set up. At least you can try studying what is wrong on your own. You still might not be able to correct things on your own. You might even ruin your guitar if you try too hard. But at least you have a chance of understanding the theory behind it.
spot on. sa amin nga murang refret na yung $400. the highest i've encountered for a refret is $1400. i told the guy, id just buy an intermediate guitar every time i wear out the frets. LOL.
simple stuff can cost up to a hundred bucks depende sa place.
kaya peeps here don't easily jump on refretting. tsaka i was told dahil sa mahal ng redressing/refretting marami na din nag aral on their own paano mag refret/redress/relevel.
also another reason why people jump on the Rectify Master product line in first world countries.
reality bites, he did not tell me i was wrong. HE SHOWED ME. suddenly my ears opened up. OO NGA ANO, hindi papala ganun ka intonated ang guitar ko.
another thing. output from my pickups were not balanced. he showed me, i heard it. another light bulb moment. i thougt ok na yung out of the box dimarzio, i dint bother to change the pole pieces. akala ko walang diff yun, at ok lang na wag i adjust.
marami talagang hindi nakasulat sa books or nasa video. minsan meron pero iba yung may kausap ka face to face at ipapaexperience sa iyo yung concept.
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Yes and it was money well-spent.
I enjoy playing all my guitars.
+1 on Al's and Mojoefly's insights. :)
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noon pinag aralan kong mag set up etc..hanggang natuto ako,pero indi ako huminto,kaya ngayon gumagawa na ako ng sarili kong electric guitar.huwag lang tayong matakot matuto
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I do basic setups only on fender guitar. but on les paul/sg I can't seem the grasp how to do it correctly.. :lol:
Me too Sir Juan, Fenders are a breeze to set-up. but les paul types, I just cant find that sweet spot. :-(
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Nope..I never spent any money yet for another guy to set my gear up..I usually do it myself..and its great learning experience..and you get you know more about how your instrument works and reacts...I just find the sweet spot ...some can take just 5 minutes some can take days..but its all good..
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Initial setup lang for my instruments ang pinag-gagastusan ko. Yung mga susunod na setup, ako na yun.
Soldering, nagpapa-tulong pa ko sa kaibigan.
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i "learned" to do basic set-up / intonation on my guitars. i think i can do it well enough, but i always leave it to a pro to do the initial setting up after i buy a new guitar.
yung pro II ko took me some months of looking and working on it. hindi ako familiar sa floating bridge, and i haven't encountered something like what it uses, plus i didn't have the tools to work on it. the tech i brought it too was stumped for a few seconds, but after dismantling the thing and putting it back together, he figured it out then finished the deal within half an hour.
if it was left entirely up to me, i would've end up with another display guitar
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I do pay someone to set up my guitars. I just don't have the time (and interest) to learn how to do it myself. I can do basic intonation and action adjustments though. But for everything else, I'd rather have someone more knowledgeable do it for me.
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Basic set-up and soldering, I can do it. Refret and others that require tools i don't have, I take it to micsis. :-D
this could be different now right? :)
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this could be different now right? :)
Yes. ^-^
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before i use to do it myself (intonation, pihit ng truss rod and other basic stuffs kasi masaya din matuto pero these days I just let other people do their magic on my guitar. mismo kasi gawa nila.
wink @Cayle and Chino \m/
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aside from the cost of the strings and some tools/supplies, i haven't spent a dime or centavo on the set-up of my guitars. i started to learn how to set up my guitar at the same time i started learning how to play 20 years ago. now i think i'm better at setting up guitars than playing them :lol:. i probably spent more time tinkering my guitars than playing them. i can do basic set-up, pickup and electronics, did some nut change, minor finishing, and minor fretwork. haven't done a full refret yet but i'm confident i can do it if i have the tools and the time.