The Music Forums > Gospel and Praise
Lowballing for the Lord
voidmain:
I'm gonna get a bit preachy here. Sabagay, Gospel and Praise board naman to. Please wala po munang balat-sibuyas; sabi nga sa Bible, "Better is open rebuke than hidden love" Prov 27:5
Nagbabasa ako ng Funniest inquiry thread lately at nakita ko to:
--- Quote from: pao2pao16 on April 29, 2016, 11:57:37 AM ---just go straight to the point. Reply them "E ano ngayon kung gagamitin sa church?"
Para malaman natin ang sagot.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Ralph_Petrucci on April 29, 2016, 04:25:17 PM ---tinry ko na. ang sagot sakin "syempre po, for spreading the word and blessing of God po. ayaw niyo po bang magbless ng ibang tao?"
muntik na ko makipagmeetup para lang masampal siya sa mukha.
--- End quote ---
Ang context nito is pinag-uusapan nila yung mga nanglo-lowball kasi "gagamitin sa church"
Guys, if anyone here has ever used the church or the Lord as an excuse to lowball; I rebuke you. We say we are serving the God of all creation tapos simpleng gitara kukuriputin pa natin? It gives a bad example to people who are not believers. Ang dating sa akin is mas importante pa na maka-kuha tayo ng good deal kesa ma-bless yung tao na kausap natin.
In response naman dun sa reply nung buyer, spreading the word of God does not necessitate us buying gear. Si Jesus nga walang sound system e and He was able to heal the sick, raise the dead, and drive out demons. The early disciples didn't have any of those too and they were able to reach the entire known world at the time with the Gospel. Tayo po ba, may napa-galing na by us playing? Have we ever had someone drop to their knees and confess their sin because ang ganda ng tone natin? Granted, it may happen; but is it because of the gear or the tone? Definitely not!
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. - 1 Samuel 16:7
Yung heart natin ang importante kay Lord, not our gear. It's good to have good gear, kaso di ba mas importante to have a good heart? And having a good heart means you love God first, then love people. Nasan ang pagmamahal sa kapwa pag kinukuripot natin yung gear na pinag-hirapan nung tao? Jesus moved in great miracles through compassion. If we really want people blessed, let's have God fix our hearts first.
Note that I am by no means exempt from looking for a good deal, or asking for a price lower than advertised. But I never use the church and especially the Lord in this. As far as the Lord is concerned, pwede niya tayong bigyan ng mamahaling gear. I've heard of a story of how a person was given a Martin dreadnought (di ko lang alam yung model) by a missionary simply because he prayed for it. I've even heard of someone getting a Veritas guitar because sinabi ng Lord dun sa owner na ibigay yun sa kanya (I think this was Jeff Kunde from Jesus Culture).
My personal guitar gear journey started with a Lumanog acoustic. Una kong electric was a palo-china-necked guitar na nakuha ko ng 1k. Una kong stomp was either a Behringer DM-100 or a Boston DS-100 (di ko na maalala kung alin dyan sa dalawa). And the Lord blessed me as I was faithful with the small that I had been entrusted with. Eventually, I was able to acquire a Fender Tele, a good amount of pedals, and a decent tube amp (Laney Cub 12R). At the same time, my pedal collection got bigger. Its started with a multi, tapos isa isang naka-kuha ng pedals. Thankfully, maganda napasukan ko na trabaho. I actually prayed to have a job which paid a particular amount (which was almost double of what I was currently earning at the time), with the schedule that I wanted, and yung may possibility of going to the US. God answered my prayers. I got the salary I wanted, with a better schedule than what I asked for, and I got to go to the US all paid for by the company.
Summing up this long post, be content and faithful with what you have and God will bless you for it. And remember - the Lord looks at the heart, not the gear.
Sorry if some of you may have found this as a long winded rant/sermon, but I hope may na-bless through this. God bless po :)
J-ROCK80s:
hahhaa! Panalo tong thread na to!
Ako kasi kapag ganyan ang sinasabi ng buyer na "gagamitin naman sa church"
ang sagot ko palagi ay: "Ako din naman, yung pambayad mo ay gagamitin ko din pambili ng gagamitin sa church."
Stating that the item will be used for church is not a valid reason if hindi nmn ang church ang may-ari ng item.
Kadalasan, sasabihin lang yun ng buyer pero sa kanya naman talaga yung item.
Better not to answer the inquiry of a potential buyer if nanglolowball na... iwas sakit sa ulo.
Yung heart natin ang importante kay Lord, not our gear -- MISMO!!!
Yan ang pinakaimportante sa lahat. Kung tama ang puso kay Lord, well then the material things will follow. For God will definitely provide for our Gears. Focusing on Gears won't draw us closer to God but focusing on his word, spending time with him does...
cumbersome:
I'm pretty sure there are people out there who do this kind of thing knowingly, sadly, but maybe we shouldn't be too harsh, and immediately assume malice everytime someone mentions church use, and lowballs in the same breath.
First, knowing the value, and the range of value for music gear isn't something that's intuitive. A surprising number of church people (yes, pastors and elders included) haven't the slightest idea of how much certain gear costs, and many are totally shocked that it can get very expensive. So it can get tedious when a buyer with a certain price range in mind tries to reconcile the value that the seller is attaching to the item he's selling.
Second, most churches (and church workers) really, really don't have the money for gear. There are churches out there using empty water jugs for drums, and worn-out karaoke amps for a sound system. Most local church guitarists will probably never own even an Squier in their lifetime, much less the prestigious brands that many Christian guitarists in this forum own. With severely limited funds in their hands, with many churches not giving priority to gear acquisition, some people can be annoying to negotiate with, in their efforts to stretch their budget.
I can't blame those who don't subscribe to Christianity for reacting the way they do to these people, but for those of us who believe in Christ and were blessed with material things, whose 'prayers were answered', how should we respond to this situation? Granted that there those who are out to save a few bucks in the Lord's name, but others are simply in difficult circumstances, in need, the sort that third party theological sophistication doesn't really alleviate. Would we rather criticize the attitude, or address the need underneath?
voidmain:
Thank you for that sir cumbersome :)
I may have been too critical of people who do this. And I apologize if I hurt anyone with my post. I totally agree with what your proposing. I think it will be a good idea to do this. Ngakaroon tuloy ako ng idea for a Christian musicians' thrift shop. I wonder kung gagana yun
sonicassault:
--- Quote from: cumbersome on May 06, 2016, 01:04:30 PM ---I'm pretty sure there are people out there who do this kind of thing knowingly, sadly, but maybe we shouldn't be too harsh, and immediately assume malice everytime someone mentions church use, and lowballs in the same breath.
First, knowing the value, and the range of value for music gear isn't something that's intuitive. A surprising number of church people (yes, pastors and elders included) haven't the slightest idea of how much certain gear costs, and many are totally shocked that it can get very expensive. So it can get tedious when a buyer with a certain price range in mind tries to reconcile the value that the seller is attaching to the item he's selling.
Second, most churches (and church workers) really, really don't have the money for gear. There are churches out there using empty water jugs for drums, and worn-out karaoke amps for a sound system. Most local church guitarists will probably never own even an Squier in their lifetime, much less the prestigious brands that many Christian guitarists in this forum own. With severely limited funds in their hands, with many churches not giving priority to gear acquisition, some people can be annoying to negotiate with, in their efforts to stretch their budget.
I can't blame those who don't subscribe to Christianity for reacting the way they do to these people, but for those of us who believe in Christ and were blessed with material things, whose 'prayers were answered', how should we respond to this situation? Granted that there those who are out to save a few bucks in the Lord's name, but others are simply in difficult circumstances, in need, the sort that third party theological sophistication doesn't really alleviate. Would we rather criticize the attitude, or address the need underneath?
--- End quote ---
Perhaps in this situation it is best to educate the buyer on the economics of gear. While some of us would like to help out, most of us are also not in the position or with the financial capability to dole out used Squiers or other gear. Even a humble setup can get intimidatingly expensive.
If the buyer truly is going to purchase the gear as property of the church (as mentioned here, some just claim it is for the church but it will be owned by them personally and will only sometimes be used for church, which is different and totally deceptive), then we can tell them that our gear also come in price ranges, and some of our secondhand gear really just cannot go below a certain price point, and they would have to look somewhere where their budget fits, and usually there are people or sellers who can provide their needs.
If I really needed something to work with on a limited budget, there's nothing wrong with buying gear with the caliber of say a Behringer or a fake Fender or a random no-name guitar and amp or speaker. It's somethings decent to work with, and it is unfair to equate these gear with finer instruments, especially when trying to buy from a working musician or collector where they invested their hard work and talents for their gear.
As for drums or percussion, there's actually quite a lot of options as some really cheap stuff are available to most people (think of how much those barangay marching band stuff would cost secondhand). And honestly, water jugs are actually nice percs. Most modern percussion instruments actually came from improvised things like fish crates for the cajon and shell curtains for shakers.
I guess the easiest one to sell down is amps and speakers. They're practically a dime a dozen especially for low end stuff, and I wouldn't mind selling a nice solid state amp like a Stagg for half the price for a church to use for guitar and even for vocal duties (I've done that with a Behringer amp and the church people were happy).
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