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The Music Forums => Gospel and Praise => Topic started by: nicoyow on August 27, 2014, 10:38:37 PM
Title: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: nicoyow on August 27, 2014, 10:38:37 PM
I have a friend/buddy, a bassist perhaps got inked last month at inulan ng batikos from the oldies attendies ng church kasi nagpatattoo sya.
Is it really necessary na pansinin ang bagay na yon? Does it really affect what does he do in church?
your opinion guys because i really want to get inked also. i don't see it as a bad thing.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: NTM on August 28, 2014, 08:00:57 AM
For me, it doesn't matter. What matters to me is "Anong motibo mo bakit ka nagpatattoo?" hehe
If you just wanted to be "cool", hmmm, mukhang di sya acceptable sakin. If you'll be using it to win this generation then that would be good. Isa pang dahilan siguro kasi masyadong conservative yung mga Filipino pag dating sa Tatoo..hehe. Unlike yung mga western countries ok lang sa kanila. I still do like to have my own tattoo someday.....pero iniisip ko pa kung necessary.hahaha. Like Carl Lentz. :D
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 28, 2014, 08:45:55 AM
I don't think it should be an issue. But of course conservatism frowns down upon it, especially that not many Filipino tribes did not have tattoo cultures in the first place.
As for the motive or necessity, I don't think it should matter either, because tattoos are an aesthetic choice. It's like choosing what clothes to wear, or what pendant or bracelet to wear, but you can never take them off. Except of course, like NTM said, if the motive is to "look cool" or "be a rebel without a cause" or to purposefully offend, then those are legit reasons NOT to get inked.
Personally I'd like to get inked, but I have skin problems so I can't (or until a doctor says it's fine). I'm a Catholic though, so it's gonna be more of a Filipino taboo thing than a church one.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: NTM on August 28, 2014, 09:20:51 AM
I don't think it should be an issue. But of course conservatism frowns down upon it, especially that not many Filipino tribes did not have tattoo cultures in the first place.
As for the motive or necessity, I don't think it should matter either, because tattoos are an aesthetic choice. It's like choosing what clothes to wear, or what pendant or bracelet to wear, but you can never take them off. Except of course, like NTM said, if the motive is to "look cool" or "be a rebel without a cause" or to purposefully offend, then those are legit reasons NOT to get inked.
Personally I'd like to get inked, but I have skin problems so I can't (or until a doctor says it's fine). I'm a Catholic though, so it's gonna be more of a Filipino taboo thing than a church one.
Nice one. :) I also do like to have one, been designing some "dream tattoo" that I want. hahaha. But I'm working and I think it is not appropriate to have a tattoo in a workplace. (I'm working in an NGO, Christian Org). But some of our missionaries has a tattoo.
My primary motive in getting a tattoo is to reach out this generation, most of our youth is from streets, so I think that would be useful. I don't know. haha
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 28, 2014, 09:31:40 AM
Nice one. :) I also do like to have one, been designing some "dream tattoo" that I want. hahaha. But I'm working and I think it is not appropriate to have a tattoo in a workplace. (I'm working in an NGO, Christian Org). But some of our missionaries has a tattoo.
My primary motive in getting a tattoo is to reach out this generation, most of our youth is from streets, so I think that would be useful. I don't know. haha
Even if the world has progressed, tatoos are still not widely acceptable in the workplace. It's acceptable, but since business has its own aesthetic (sharp, clean, and lots of rules and etiquette. not a bad thing though, it's something one can actually appreciate.), visible tattoos are not allowed.
If you want a big tattoo, go for the back, and don't go cheap on it. Since you can't even see it yourself, better entrust your skin to a really good artist. If smaller is okay, get some at the sleeves. Something more easily visible but not out of line with work is at the nape, or below the collarbone. If you're a girl, the hip is a pretty popular place.
Basically, you can get tattoos where Four (from Divergent) has them.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 28, 2014, 10:56:01 AM
it really doesnt matter... I dont know why this has to be an issue...especially in religious groups...who by right, should be more tolerant and understanding and less judgemental towards others..
I say go for it., if it makes you happy..and fulfilled..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 28, 2014, 11:04:58 AM
doesn't matter, go for what you want, fashion and clothing should not be limited by what other people think. Pero syempre if your in a church setting dapat mataas ang patience mo lalong lalo na daming judgmental na mga tao :lol: depende rin sa congregation, I think SOME denominational churches un ung conservative talaga. none denominational churches, less legalism :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 28, 2014, 11:09:08 AM
doesn't matter, go for what you want, fashion and clothing should not be limited by what other people think. Pero syempre if your in a church setting dapat mataas ang patience mo lalong lalo na daming judgmental na mga tao :lol: depende rin sa congregation, I think SOME denominational churches un ung conservative talaga. none denominational churches, less legalism :)
so true..I find this really ironic... the amount of how religious and devout you are the more judgmental and self righteous you become..lalo pag nagsamasama na sila as a group....
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 28, 2014, 11:18:41 AM
so true..I find this really ironic... the amount of how religious and devout you are the more judgmental and self righteous you become..lalo pag nagsamasama na sila as a group....
yup, I used to be one of those legalistic person in a extreme denominational group.. :lol: I left that group, now attending a none denominational church.. :)
most of the time the reason why there are judgmental and self righteous people is because of their congregational leader, because instead of viewing and examining the scriptures they rely so much with their pastors or priest. Relationship with God should be the primary concern of a person than church membership.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 28, 2014, 11:25:00 AM
yup, I used to be one of those legalistic person in a extreme denominational group.. :lol: I left that group, now attending a none denominational church.. :)
most of the time the reason why there are judgmental and self righteous people is because of their congregational leader, because instead of viewing and examining the scriptures they rely so much with their pastors or priest. Relationship with God should be the primary concern of a person than church membership.
this ^
usually especially if a leader is charismatic and cultish...doon na nagfofocus mga tao at na drawdraw... instead sa scripture..human nature lang talaga siguro..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: NTM on August 28, 2014, 11:26:50 AM
so true..I find this really ironic... the amount of how religious and devout you are the more judgmental and self righteous you become..lalo pag nagsamasama na sila as a group....
+1.. nice!
Tama ka jan, I also find this very ironic. I grew up in church, in a Christian family, seen a lot of people get offended and leave the church because of church leaders/elders judgmental religious mindsets. We are taught to live like Christ, not compromising in the "world". But sometimes because of that teachings, we are being "limited" and "exclusive". Christianity is not meant to be like that. How can you reach this generation and share the gospel with such judgmental mindset. Break the culture. It's not about compromising, but more of "reaching".
But still thinking, what would Jesus do? :) If He is in a human form again in today's generation will He be like a "cool-type-of-guy" just to reach the youth of today? or a "holy-calm-righteous-guy" like what we have seen in most of the pictures and images.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 28, 2014, 11:32:47 AM
so true..I find this really ironic... the amount of how religious and devout you are the more judgmental and self righteous you become..lalo pag nagsamasama na sila as a group....
sakit yan ng mga Christian religious groups. whether Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, non-denoinational, whatever. The catholicism (by definition: all-embracing) of the religion of Jesus empowered people to catechize, evangelize, but at the same time, has given them the illusion that they can judge people in the name of God.
So yeah, come to think of it, tattoos can even be a statement against the earthly judgment we all pass towards people. Sure the ultra conservatives will tell you off for not respecting the sanctity of the body, but of course you know better.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 28, 2014, 11:34:33 AM
Tama ka jan, I also find this very ironic. I grew up in church, in a Christian family, seen a lot of people get offended and leave the church because of church leaders/elders judgmental religious mindsets. We are taught to live like Christ, not compromising in the "world". But sometimes because of that teachings, we are being "limited" and "exclusive". Christianity is not meant to be like that. How can you reach this generation and share the gospel with such judgmental mindset. Break the culture. It's not about compromising, but more of "reaching".
But still thinking, what would Jesus do? :) If He is in a human form again in today's generation will He be like a "cool-type-of-guy" just to reach the youth of today? or a "holy-calm-righteous-guy" like what we have seen in most of the pictures and images.
I like this thread and the direction of the discussion..
the recent insights posted help me see things clearly from a different perspective... :)
share pa!
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 28, 2014, 11:37:06 AM
dun nga sa extreme na denominational group na inaatenan ko dati, pati buhok at balbas pinapakiilamanan e.. :lol: relasyon ng magkasintahan, career choice.. :eek:
pero judgmental and legalistic people are unavoidable, Even in the time of Christ He opposed a lot of legalistic and judgmental Pharisees. kahit saan nandun sila. better have the patience to deal with folks like this.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 28, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
Guys, if you can find this episode..of KING OF THE HILL..
its a good take on the topic..
"Fearing that Bobby is succumbing to bad influences, Hank makes him join a local church youth group. Bobby discovers that the group consists of cool punks (including their tattooed pastor, Pastor K) who worship God through skateboarding and rock. Pastor K's dad Tells His son never come Between a kid and his Dad and says If the Family members don't want their kid praising like him and wants them back in regular Church it's cool."
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 28, 2014, 11:47:25 AM
Tama ka jan, I also find this very ironic. I grew up in church, in a Christian family, seen a lot of people get offended and leave the church because of church leaders/elders judgmental religious mindsets. We are taught to live like Christ, not compromising in the "world". But sometimes because of that teachings, we are being "limited" and "exclusive". Christianity is not meant to be like that. How can you reach this generation and share the gospel with such judgmental mindset. Break the culture. It's not about compromising, but more of "reaching".
But still thinking, what would Jesus do? :) If He is in a human form again in today's generation will He be like a "cool-type-of-guy" just to reach the youth of today? or a "holy-calm-righteous-guy" like what we have seen in most of the pictures and images.
I bet Jesus will tear down every religious organization in his name, including the orthodox and catholic churches. A careful reading of the NT will show how Jesus was a devout Jew, and thus a stickler to the rules, but his understanding of the rules shows that he only follows those that make sense, the ones that follow the nature and spirit of the laws. I don't think he'd be a cool guy, I think he'd be furious with the things we have now. In short, BTT, i think Jesus won't have anything against tattoos,unless you did it to be cool or in, or to feel the pain of your broken heart or some random emo shiz
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: bakit? on August 28, 2014, 11:52:50 AM
ang alam ko madaming punks/hardcore kids na christians.
tattoos are here to stay. kungmay tattoo ang tao wala sila magagawa.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 28, 2014, 11:53:33 AM
ang alam ko madaming punks/hardcore kids na christians.
tattoos are here to stay. kungmay tattoo ang tao wala sila magagawa.
Mas matagal pa ang tattoo kaysa sa christianity. that says a lot
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: NTM on August 28, 2014, 01:12:25 PM
Most of the so-called Christians rely their faith more on the Old Testament teachings or I must say the "law", like the Pharisees. They judge people based on the teaching of the law. You don't have to do that, or this. At some point we are boxed in a "religious-law". I believe that Jesus came down, live with the people, break the wrong culture....He replace the "law" by "LOVE". Christians must live by loving others! regardless of who they are and what they've done in the past. Stop playing religion by quoting some biblical verses to judge people! We are all saved by grace after all, all of us our sinners in the eyes of God.
That's why Jesus came, for us to experience His love and at the same time learn to love people. You'll never know, maybe God will accept the worship of those people with a lot of tattoos than those people who are teaching at the pulpit and called themselves as righteous. It's all about the heart more than the deeds and looks.
PS I'm not justifying myself. haha. I don't have tattoos. I don't have long hairs or what they so called bad-guy-looks. hahaha. I just seen it that way and sharing my own opinion. I'm a Pastors kid anyway, but not a rebel in our church. haha
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: bakit? on August 28, 2014, 01:22:39 PM
Most of the so-called Christians rely their faith more on the Old Testament teachings or I must say the "law", like the Pharisees. They judge people based on the teaching of the law. You don't have to do that, or this. At some point we are boxed in a "religious-law". I believe that Jesus came down, live with the people, break the wrong culture....He replace the "law" by "LOVE". Christians must live by loving others! regardless of who they are and what they've done in the past. Stop playing religion by quoting some biblical verses to judge people! We are all saved by grace after all, all of us our sinners in the eyes of God.
That's why Jesus came, for us to experience His love and at the same time learn to love people. You'll never know, maybe God will accept the worship of those people with a lot of tattoos than those people who are teaching at the pulpit and called themselves as righteous. It's all about the heart more than the deeds and looks.
PS I'm not justifying myself. haha. I don't have tattoos. I don't have long hairs or what they so called bad-guy-looks. hahaha. I just seen it that way and sharing my own opinion. I'm a Pastors kid anyway, but not a rebel in our church. haha
this.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 28, 2014, 01:25:50 PM
Most of the so-called Christians rely their faith more on the Old Testament teachings or I must say the "law", like the Pharisees. They judge people based on the teaching of the law. You don't have to do that, or this. At some point we are boxed in a "religious-law". I believe that Jesus came down, live with the people, break the wrong culture....He replace the "law" by "LOVE". Christians must live by loving others! regardless of who they are and what they've done in the past. Stop playing religion by quoting some biblical verses to judge people! We are all saved by grace after all, all of us our sinners in the eyes of God.
That's why Jesus came, for us to experience His love and at the same time learn to love people. You'll never know, maybe God will accept the worship of those people with a lot of tattoos than those people who are teaching at the pulpit and called themselves as righteous. It's all about the heart more than the deeds and looks.
PS I'm not justifying myself. haha. I don't have tattoos. I don't have long hairs or what they so called bad-guy-looks. hahaha. I just seen it that way and sharing my own opinion. I'm a Pastors kid anyway, but not a rebel in our church. haha
LUPET NTM!
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gitaristadaw on August 28, 2014, 02:30:43 PM
for me, as the worship head in our church, in my honest opinion, i dont care if nagpa-ink ang isa sa member namin if the purpose is to penetrate the next gen..as sir NTM says..wag lang pang porma... and also..depende kung ano pina-tattoo nya.. if it is something satanic or demonic syempre that's a no-no kahit na sabihin pang gusto mag penetrate sa mga satanista hehe
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: bakit? on August 28, 2014, 02:32:14 PM
agree. iba naman na yun.
pero kung art naman na okay, why not.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: p-nut on August 28, 2014, 03:48:27 PM
I opened my PM account kasi kailangan ko ng something for my current setup then I paused for awhile seeing this thread:
Share Lang: I started attending this church org for teens (CFC-YFC) way back HS pa. Back then hooked na ako in playing instruments and I really know what I wanted. I started listening to Black Sabbath, GnR, Pantera, Slayer, Metallica, etc. and some of my older heads would say "ano ba yang pinakikinggan mo? parang demonyo" (pertaining to the bands). I was like: "this is the genre that I wanted to play when I grow old". Hanggang sa pagpasok ko sa college (although naintindihan na nila later on what I meant back then), ganun pa din ako not minding others would say.
Fast Forward: Way back 2011 I had my first ink (kasi madami nang sumunod. haha!) on my left arm (Half Sleeved), and super happy ko kasi 1: I wanted a tattoo since bata pa ako 2: there's a reason behind this tattoo and its design. My former churchmates then commented: you went overboard bro, hindi na kalugod-lugod yan". I just don't mind every word na nasabi nila, umalis nlng ako and moved on with my faith.
My point: regardless kund anong itsura mo: maganda o panget, maputi o kayumanggi, may tattoo o wala, all of us were loved by our God, an Awesome God! Having a tattoo is not a basis for condemning someone, nor to be the subject of insult for some "WORTHY" people. As long as you have Him in your heart and mind as well as in your actions, you are on the right track! Today, hindi ako nahihiya to raise my arms and praise Him with my tats on my arm waving "HI" to my seatmates, kasi hindi lang naman ako nagiisa, madami kaming may tattoo na nagpupuri at sumasamba sa Kanya :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: NTM on August 28, 2014, 04:02:03 PM
What's on the inside will manifest on the outside, but what's on the outside is not automatically manifest on the inside.
Hindi porke madameng tattoo ang isang tao, maaapektuhan nun kung ano sya sa loob. I've known a lot of people has a lot of tattoo pero sobrang mabuting Kristyano. Pero ang mahalaga yung kung ano ang nasa loob mo. Kasi yung ang makikita sa labas. Kung puro ka galit sa loob, puro bitterness, etc., lalabas at lalabas yan sa ugali at pananalita mo, at yun sa tingin ko ang hindi tama. Everything that you do, must glorify God. Hashtag parin..... #WWJD hahahaha
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: p-nut on August 28, 2014, 04:08:40 PM
What's on the inside will manifest on the outside, but what's on the outside is not automatically manifest on the inside.
Hindi porke madameng tattoo ang isang tao, maaapektuhan nun kung ano sya sa loob. I've known a lot of people has a lot of tattoo pero sobrang mabuting Kristyano. Pero ang mahalaga yung kung ano ang nasa loob mo. Kasi yung ang makikita sa labas. Kung puro ka galit sa loob, puro bitterness, etc., lalabas at lalabas yan sa ugali at pananalita mo, at yun sa tingin ko ang hindi tama. Everything that you do, must glorify God. Hashtag parin..... #WWJD hahahaha
YEAH!!!!!! :-D
Its better to get to know the person first before we make our own assumptions. Hindi lahat ng may tattoo may masama, mukha nang adik, or makamundo in a sense, may pinanggagalingan ung kung ano sila ngyn sa paningin ng tao. The problem here in our country is that we have so many congregations na nagde-degrade ng tao lalo na pag may kaanib silang ganun. I honestly feel sorry for those brothers/sisters na affected ng ganung actions :(
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: irving on August 28, 2014, 04:14:35 PM
Check out Brian "Head" Welch, Jake Luhrs, Caleb Shomo and Mattie Montgomery. Yung unang 3, hindi pnw leaders. Pero yung 4th, Vocalist ng For Today, and worship leader sa church nila. Not just by tattoos or being "metal", pero it's the heart motives that counts. Unawain natin may may kanya-kanyang preferences ang mga tao, pero as Christians, we ought to love one another. Nakakalungkot na hanggang ngayon, meron pa rin palang ayaw sa mga may tats. Though wala ako nun, pero if pupunta kayo samin, kala niyo mga siga yung mga musikero namin. Hehe.
Oldies may be offended. Pero sa younger generation naman, wag tayo magpa-apekto. Madaming umaalis na youth sa churches dahil sa mga ganun, pero dapat ipakita na lang natin sa life natin kung paano tayo minahal ng Diyos, and at the same time, ganun rin natin mamahalin yung iba. :lol:
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on August 28, 2014, 04:57:07 PM
Yes, it's sad that Christianity is often branded as legalistic, intolerant, judgmental, etc. Yes, much of the church, its leaders, its members, its reactions, are not bereft of shortcomings.. But to pile up arguments on these shortcomings to support ideas of loosing up standards, of focusing on the 'Loving others' while foregoing the other bulk of the scriptures of the 'Love for God and of His Righteousness/Holiness' (not to mention the His, uhm, wrath)..
I have nothing against tattoos.. I have nothing against loving and accepting others either.. Yes, there may seem a vivid verse in Leviticus forbidding marks on the body, but I won't bring that up as for now to many it's a gray area..
But as someone who profess Christ Jesus as Lord, IMHO and IMPO there has to be a line drawn in all our self-expressions.. Besides, the scriptures show some examples of good and honest intentions that received stinging remark/rebuttal from the Lord.. (Peter was named rebuked 'satan', for one)..
Dan Phillips gives quite a challenging question here (http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2011/07/dating-when-words-and-choices-clash.html (http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2011/07/dating-when-words-and-choices-clash.html)
Quote
I'm asking what you're saying, what message your choice is communicating.
To whatever degree you're concerned at all about this person's soul, you're trying to tell her/him about Christ, right? You're trying to tell this person that Christ is the One in whom all things hold together (Colossians 1:17), the source and reason for all the universe (Colossians 1:16), the most important celebrity anywhere, ever (Philippians 2:9-11). You want to persuade him that Christ is Lord of all. And you want him/her to believe that Jesus is all these things, and that He is all these things to you.
But you've already told him that Christ isn't all that. You're just haggling over price.
The blog entry is about dating and whatnot (it's a good read, for general christian living stuff too), but the question I quoted above strikes , in my opinion and paraphrase, a challenge to whatever "expression" we choose: Is that action really a manifestation of the truthfulness of your witness, or you just showed you have another King?
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: in_the_tent on August 28, 2014, 05:56:58 PM
Sari sari opinion maririnig sa mga forums like this. Baka debate lang ang kahantungan. Best way is to ask your pastor. Tatay/nanay mo yun, di ka ipapahamak nun. Anu man ang stand niya, magsubmit ka. Di ka sasabit. Honor your father and mother diba? Stay blessed.:)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 28, 2014, 06:55:22 PM
"I really disagree with a lot of things that the church does—the Christian church. Just religion in general, I see a lot of things that seem off. I saw firsthand how someone like my dad—maybe he fell, maybe he made some mistakes—but then people from the church would basically say, 'You're going to hell.' And then turn their back on him. To me, God is all about love and mercy and compassion, and I don't see a lot of that today." Jason Wade of Lifehouse told Rolling Stone
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 28, 2014, 07:55:25 PM
"I really disagree with a lot of things that the church does—the Christian church. Just religion in general, I see a lot of things that seem off. I saw firsthand how someone like my dad—maybe he fell, maybe he made some mistakes—but then people from the church would basically say, 'You're going to hell.' And then turn their back on him. To me, God is all about love and mercy and compassion, and I don't see a lot of that today." Jason Wade of Lifehouse told Rolling Stone
^Good stuff..
And regarding the “ask your pastor” from the previous reply...not really my thing...i think the issue of tatoos are. Trivial And too personal question...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: Kusanagi on August 28, 2014, 10:08:48 PM
I'm not completely against wearing tattoos but I think it's unnecessary, lalo na sa mga church leaders like some of us here who play in worship bands. Lahat nakatingin sa'tin so we must strive to be a good example and avoid to be the cause of stumbling of our brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm not saying na Christians with tattoos = unreal, yes what matters most is the genuineness of your faith pero I think it's much better to take the safe side of not having tattoos since they are usually associated to the "world" at hindi naman lahat ng Kristiyano pantay-pantay ng level ng pag-unawa. Sometimes, the best that we can do is to have courage in forsaking ourselves for the glory of God and for edifying our fellow believers.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: inexperience on August 29, 2014, 12:10:46 AM
Hindi ako relihiyoso pero may verses/utos kasi sa bible prohibiting the marking/painting the body. kung itinuro ng leader o preacher yung utos na yun sa mga members, tama lang na mabatikos sya sa pagsaway.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 29, 2014, 05:38:20 AM
yup may nakalagay pero dapat kasi lahat ng bagay chinecheck maiigi dapat nasa context, those verses are in the old testament pertaining to the law of the Jews, hindi naman tayo Jew diba? Kung susundin natin yun e bakit pa tayo kumakain ng karne ng baboy. Bawal kumain ng isdang walang kaliskis. Bawal rin magtrabaho pag sabbath day which is saturday sa Jews. at marami pang iba.
As Jesus had said the law is sum up to this "to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself." Dito sa Pinas dahil napakarelihiyoso nitong bansang ito, napansin ko na we treat people with tatoos or body piercing, or having a fashion sense like that as like someone who committed a crime, a murder, or a drug addict.
I'm a guy actually with no tatoos so i'm not justifying myself, but because I used to be a part of music ministry in my former church, I'm not generalizing pero minsan meron nga sobrang ayos ng damit nakapormal pa mas masama pa ugali sa mga taong nakilala kong pumoporma ng may tatoo at mga body piercing. Pero hindi naman lahat :)
John 7:24 "Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly."
for me, as the worship head in our church, in my honest opinion, i dont care if nagpa-ink ang isa sa member namin if the purpose is to penetrate the next gen..as sir NTM says..wag lang pang porma... and also..depende kung ano pina-tattoo nya.. if it is something satanic or demonic syempre that's a no-no kahit na sabihin pang gusto mag penetrate sa mga satanista hehe
yup tama wag magpatatoo ng ineverted pentagram baka paalisin sa church, :lol: tama evangelizing is important, pero hindi ba nagiging man pleaser ang isang christian pag ganun? :? Why not be true nalang nag pa tatoo kasi pangporma naman talaga, wala naman masama pumorma dba? Iba iba ang tao, iba iba ang fashion sense :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 29, 2014, 05:44:29 AM
And regarding the “ask your pastor” from the previous reply...not really my thing...i think the issue of tatoos are. Trivial And too personal question...
Tama! kung lalapit sa Pastor para itanung yan bagay na ganun, pwede naman kaso, most of the time opinionated na rin ang payo ng iba, why not ask God? He will guide everyone willing enough to find it in His scripture, and why not go for it? Walang mararating sa buhay ang isang taong iniisip kung ano ang sasabihin ng ibang tao, do what you want, as long as no one will be violated or hurt in your everyday decisions in life.
wala naman mapapahamak diba kung magpapatatoo ka, its a minor thing, minor issue lang sa Bible :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: inexperience on August 29, 2014, 11:28:54 AM
yup may nakalagay pero dapat kasi lahat ng bagay chinecheck maiigi dapat nasa context, those verses are in the old testament pertaining to the law of the Jews, hindi naman tayo Jew diba? Kung susundin natin yun e bakit pa tayo kumakain ng karne ng baboy. Bawal kumain ng isdang walang kaliskis. Bawal rin magtrabaho pag sabbath day which is saturday sa Jews. at marami pang iba.
Hindi bat ang bibliya ay isinulat para sa tao? tao tayo, kung yun ay para sa mga hudyo lamang dapat naka specify sya na para sa mga hudyo lamang. At sa pagkakaalam ko may mga pagkaing nilinis na kung tinanggap ng may pasasalamat including pigs etc etc except blood, i'll post it pag nahanap ko.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 29, 2014, 12:15:38 PM
Hindi bat ang bibliya ay isinulat para sa tao? tao tayo, kung yun ay para sa mga hudyo lamang dapat naka specify sya na para sa mga hudyo lamang. At sa pagkakaalam ko may mga pagkaing nilinis na kung tinanggap ng may pasasalamat including pigs etc etc except blood, i'll post it pag nahanap ko.
Actually, the Torah, from which the Old Testament comes, was written for the believers of the God of Abraham, ergo, the Jews, not for the Gentiles (by definition: not Jewish), who believed in false gods. In short, the OT is just for Jews, because it is the holy scripture of their religion, and not anyone else's.
The New Testament, on the other hand, is composed of the Acts of the Apostles, and the letters of the Apostles to the Gentiles. This is the portion of the Bible that was written "for the people" as this started the catholicism (by definition: all-embracing, universal) of Christianity. This is also the more liberal portion of the Bible, where the teachings of Jesus realign Jewish laws into the spirit and practicality of the law, in order to focus people's religious acts into love, grace, and mercy.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: chipsdelight on August 29, 2014, 12:42:24 PM
it really doesnt matter... I dont know why this has to be an issue...
I say go for it., if it makes you happy..and fulfilled..
+1
Tattoo is an art, way of expressing. Hindi siya way para maging astig o kaya reason para husgahan ng mga tao sa simbahan na kinabibilangan nya. Kasi kawawa naman yung believer na may tattoo, meaning hindi sila katanggap tanggap sa paningin ng mga kasamahan nilang believer. Dahil lang may tattoo xa, mararamdaman na niya na ma discriminate, really unfair.
Pero siguro, kung mga oldies yung sumisita, wag na lang masyadong dibdibin. Kasi we all know na sa generation nila, iilan pa lang ang may ganun noon kaya siguro hindi sila open minded.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: bakit? on August 29, 2014, 12:50:24 PM
hahaba to pramis.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 29, 2014, 12:56:15 PM
if, you need to consult somebody, elders or pastors, etc...
it simply means..
youre not ready to get INKED yet..
tattoos are special things..personal..spiritual things. you are connected with your tattoo.... (at least for me)...and if your doubting..worried...thinking of what others will say...or it might drag you down, keep opportunities away from you...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: inexperience on August 29, 2014, 01:03:36 PM
I'd believe it kung may verse na ginamit, otherwise opinion lang yun. Nasa OT ang wag papatay, kung para sa Jews lang yun ibig ba sabihin pwede ne tatong pumatay?
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 29, 2014, 01:24:33 PM
I'd believe it kung may verse na ginamit, otherwise opinion lang yun. Nasa OT ang wag papatay, kung para sa Jews lang yun ibig ba sabihin pwede ne tatong pumatay?
like sonicassualt have said the ot is for the Jews, actually ung book of Leviticus lang un to be exact I think, because at early ages God has chosen the nation Israel, ung law na un is for their nation and their religion called Judaism, we also have a law where you cannot murder someone and that is the human rights law.. yung 10 commandments dapat talaga sundin, kasi if you will read the context sa book of Exodus, it starts with I am the Lord Your God, so that means that the 10 commandments is for everyone He created, everyone who acknowledges Him as their God and King..so its for everyone...
As Paul have said sa mga letter nya sa mga Gentiles, he rebuked the Gentiles for their ignorance of trying to be justified by the law. Because sa law and religion ng Jew they need to do annual sacrifices, for their sins, sacrificing animals, pero ung blood na un hindi sapat that's the reason why Christ came, His blood for our salvation, and to bring His kingdom back to man.. :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: inexperience on August 29, 2014, 01:34:15 PM
like sonicassualt have said the ot is for the Jews, actually ung book of leviticus lang un to be exact, because at early ages God has chosen the nation Israel, ung law na un is for their nation and their religion called Judaism, we also have a law where you cannot murder someone and that is the human rights law..
As Paul have said sa mga letter nya sa mga Gentiles, he rebuked the Gentiles for their ignorance of trying to be justified by the law. Because sa law and religion ng Jew they need to do annual sacrifices, for their sins, sacrificing animals, pero ung blood na un hindi sapat that's the reason why Christ came, His blood for our salvation, and to bring His kingdom back to man..
sige sige i'll find the exact words/verses specifying the ot is for the jews only. oh yes i know merong human rights law, but were talking what was written in the bible, lets not refer to other book/s.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 29, 2014, 01:37:29 PM
I don't mean to argue sir, :) just I have said, The ten commanments which is found in Exodus is for everyone Jews and Gentiles :) the book of Leviticus is for the Jews based on context rin ngstart siya.. “Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them...” Leviticus 1:2
ung about the issue of tatoo nasa book of leviticus un, pati na rin pgkain ng baboy, at kung ano ano pa..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 29, 2014, 01:39:00 PM
As a Christian, decisions need to be made with your eyes on God. So, if you do choose to get a tattoo, remember that, while man looks at the outside appearance, God looks at the heart.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 29, 2014, 01:57:07 PM
As a Christian, decisions need to be made with your eyes on God. So, if you do choose to get a tattoo, remember that, while man looks at the outside appearance, God looks at the heart.
yup tama. @ts just follow your conviction, iguiguide ka naman ni Lord kung tingin ng ibang tao na masama, pero for you ok lang naman, go for it, it doesn't matter what other people will say, kasi having your life run and controlled by other people, is just so wrong. like minor issues like that when it comes to fashion sense, and some church leaders nga or co church mate pinapakiilamanan na ang personal life decisions ng ibang tao. learn to set boundaries in your life.. We are created to dominate the Earth, Genesis 1:28 and not to dominate fellow human being.. so in the end what matters is relationship parin kay Lord and not what religious institutions minor issues that they prohibited you to do..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 29, 2014, 01:59:29 PM
yup tama. @ts just follow your conviction, iguiguide ka naman ni Lord kung tingin ng ibang tao na masama, pero for you ok lang naman, go for it, it doesn't matter what other people will say, kasi having your life run and controlled by other people, is just so wrong. like minor issues like that when it comes to fashion sense, and some church leaders nga or co church mate pinapakiilamanan na ang personal life decisions ng ibang tao. learn to set boundaries in your life.. We are created to dominate the Earth, Genesis 1:28 and not to dominate fellow human being.. so in the end what matters is relationship parin kay Lord and not what religious institutions minor issues that they prohibited you to do..
mismo to! :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: inexperience on August 29, 2014, 02:15:18 PM
I don't mean to argue sir, :) just I have said, The ten commanments which is found in Exodusis for everyone Jews and Gentiles :) the book of Leviticus is for the Jews based on context rin ngstart siya.. “Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them...” Leviticus 1:2
ung about the issue of tatoo nasa book of leviticus un, pati na rin pgkain ng baboy, at kung ano ano pa..
Ahehe so the ot and some parts of it is not just for the Jews then? as for the tattoos, someone explained it to me kung bakit bawal sya eh, di ko na matandaan, i have to ask that guy again and i'll share it, pasensya na nangengealam ako, kasi if im going religious, diba mas ok yung nakasulat talaga at hindi opinyon lang.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 29, 2014, 02:50:27 PM
Ahehe so the ot and some parts of it is not just for the Jews then? as for the tattoos, someone explained it to me kung bakit bawal sya eh, di ko na matandaan, i have to ask that guy again and i'll share it, pasensya na nangengealam ako, kasi if im going religious, diba mas ok yung nakasulat talaga at hindi opinyon lang.
yup, the Leviticus is for the Jews based on context, don't know though what are some of the books sa o.t na directed for the Jews, Leviticus pa lng ang nacheck ko..
hehe ok lang naman magshare ng opinion, :) yup dapat talaga nakasulat, pero dami kasing religious people, na gumagamit ng scripture without checking first the context of that passage e...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 29, 2014, 03:09:45 PM
you made a mistake here " the OT is just for Jews, because it is the holy scripture of their religion, and not anyone else's."
In the context nga diba? When the Torah was written (the Pentateuch, or the first five books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy), there was no Christianity. And in the vein of our discussion relating to the laws prescribed in Leviticus, of course those laws, as well as the scriptures contained within the Torah, only apply to the Jews. There is even a term for non-Jews, which is "Gentiles." Proceed beyond the Torah, with the books of the prophets and kings and their works, and you will see that these are not merely words of God, but the history and culture of the Jews. The OT is practically the Araling Panlipunan collection of writings of the Jewish tradition and religion, which in one way serves as the preamble to the NT, where Jesus overturns the focus of the Jews on the word of the law to the spirit of the law.
To reiterate, in relation to how some of the laws in Leviticus do not apply to the modern Christian life, we take the Old Testament in this context.
Your point is not invalid though, but should be taken into another context, and here lies the academic explanation: Had it not been for Jesus, the books of the OT and the teachings within shall remain only for the Jews, who are the chosen people of God. Jesus was a Jew who took a corrupt religious system and turned it back to God, by teaching the true meaning of the laws and scriptures. With his apostles he established a new church that is rooted on God and love. Jesus did not establish an entirely new religion, but he reformed Judaism into what it should be, and at the same time revealed that He is the Son of God, and henceforth Christianity was established because of this truth. However, because Christianity during its establishment was considered something like a Jewish cult, and at the same time a visible threat to the Roman Empire, Christians were persecuted and ordered to be exterminated, with the Jews and the Empire joining forces - at this time Christianity was illegal. Only during the reign of Constantine the Great was Christianity allowed to be freely practiced, and upon the conversion of Constantine to Christianity did the catholicism (defined as: universal) of the religion occur, because Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire. Now due to the canonization of the scriptures into what will become the Holy Bible during the Council of Trent, the Jewish books, now known as the Old Testament in Christian bibles, have become an essential part of Christian faith, in order to bear testimony to the glory and power of the God of Abraham from whom Jesus the Son of God was begotten, as well as to learn of the laws and scriptures that Jesus had faith in, but at the same time see these laws and scriptures in the manner Jesus taught them.
TL;DR, The laws of Leviticus as they are, are applicable only to the Jews. Christianity sees them in a different way, because the focus is on God, love, and the spirit of the law.
BTT: It's okay to get a tattoo if it is not a selfish act that takes away from others, or becomes an instrument in selfish, offending, or unloving acts which in any way offends God.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: fender101 on August 29, 2014, 08:34:31 PM
If the tattoo is biblical verses then that's just fine :-D planning to get a sleeve on my right arm full of bible scriptures but its just a plan for now :-D
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: milesdavis on August 30, 2014, 12:52:24 AM
why is tattoo an issue but preaching "morality" in the church is not?
the gospel must be preach in the church, not morality.
morality follows.
but you see, whether you are full of tattoo or not, does not make one a Christian.
neither following Jesus makes a person Christian. not make a person Righteous
even following or dying for Jesus... those things does not make a person Righteous, does not Save.
my opinion? preach the Gospel.
"You are Righteous, not by works but through the Righteousness of Jesus. believe it dude."
then let the tattoo issue take care of itself.
"What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."" Matthew 15:11
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gitaristadaw on August 30, 2014, 06:16:46 AM
siguro bottom line is kunga madami ka ma-win na souls for Jesus because of the tattoo then go.. but kung hindi, at dahil meron lang yung iba na christians din..or worst maka-tisod tayo..eh, wag na lang siguro
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on August 30, 2014, 03:49:47 PM
siguro bottom line is kunga madami ka ma-win na souls for Jesus because of the tattoo then go.. but kung hindi, at dahil meron lang yung iba na christians din..or worst maka-tisod tayo..eh, wag na lang siguro
Actually sa pagiging legalistic at judgmental ng mga kristyano, mas maraming mananampalataya ang natitisod at nawawalan na ng gana, at mas maraming unbeliever ang ndi nakakakilala sa Diyos.. Jesus was neither legalistic or compromising.. the issue about the tatoo is a minor issue...
getting a tatoo to win souls for me is absurd, why not just admit na nagpapatatoo ka for fashion? the only way to win souls is through the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom and the power of the holy spirit...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on August 30, 2014, 08:41:48 PM
Jesus was neither legalistic or compromising.. the issue about the tatoo is a minor issue...
getting a tatoo to win souls for me is absurd, why not just admit na nagpapatatoo ka for fashion? the only way to win souls is through the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom and the power of the holy spirit...
+1
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gitaristadaw on August 31, 2014, 05:33:34 AM
as the ts asked, kung makaka-apekto daw ba yung pag pa-tatto ng bassist nila.. and the "oldies" reacted..siguro naka-apekto di ba? kung ayaw mo naman mapansin, matapik, madisiplina then it's your freewill to go to other churches, religions, denominations who will welcome you with open arms.. as we search for a perfect church, religion, or denomination that seems perfect, it will be imperfect once we are there na..kasi nga ayaw natin mapansin, matapik, madisiplina, mabatikos... getting a tattoo is generally not "bawal" sa church.. going back to the question of the TS..sa pangyayari sa kanila siguro conservative yung mga nag react, and if they are the elders of the church then we should respect their opinion.. same thing sa winning souls, yes it should be scripture based, and it is about How Christ loves us, How God sent HIs only begotten son to redeem us... and the mandate or the great commission is, to go forth and make disciples of every nations.. sa akin lang, to the query ng TS..listen to what God wants you to do and not the people... :-)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on August 31, 2014, 09:16:12 AM
Actually sa pagiging legalistic at judgmental ng mga kristyano, mas maraming mananampalataya ang natitisod at nawawalan na ng gana, at mas maraming unbeliever ang ndi nakakakilala sa Diyos.. Jesus was neither legalistic or compromising.. the issue about the tatoo is a minor issue...
getting a tatoo to win souls for me is absurd, why not just admit na nagpapatatoo ka for fashion? the only way to win souls is through the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom and the power of the holy spirit...
Damn reall good stuff here!
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on September 01, 2014, 04:59:12 AM
as the ts asked, kung makaka-apekto daw ba yung pag pa-tatto ng bassist nila.. and the "oldies" reacted..siguro naka-apekto di ba? kung ayaw mo naman mapansin, matapik, madisiplina then it's your freewill to go to other churches, religions, denominations who will welcome you with open arms.. as we search for a perfect church, religion, or denomination that seems perfect, it will be imperfect once we are there na..kasi nga ayaw natin mapansin, matapik, madisiplina, mabatikos... getting a tattoo is generally not "bawal" sa church.. going back to the question of the TS..sa pangyayari sa kanila siguro conservative yung mga nag react, and if they are the elders of the church then we should respect their opinion.. same thing sa winning souls, yes it should be scripture based, and it is about How Christ loves us, How God sent HIs only begotten son to redeem us... and the mandate or the great commission is, to go forth and make disciples of every nations.. sa akin lang, to the query ng TS..listen to what God wants you to do and not the people... :-)
if the oldies reacted, why not shift their focus on something more worth paying attention to, minor issues to major issues... yup we need to the respect elders but that doesn't mean they are more wiser than young ones in the ministry, because spiritual maturity is not about age,
Job 32:6-9 “I am young in years, and you are old; that is why I was fearful, not daring to tell you what I know. I thought, ‘Age should speak; advanced years should teach wisdom.’ But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding. It is not only the old who are wise, not only the aged who understand what is right.
and yup that's the best thing he can do, inquire of the Lord first instead of inquiring to some leaders and elders, because in every decision we need to take, it should be between you and God.. and not your religious affiliations...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: Super BisDak on September 01, 2014, 02:28:53 PM
TS, since you're considering to have a tattoo as well, I think it's important to examine your heart and your motives before you make the decision. I suggest you read the entire chapter of Romans 14.
Guiding questions below may help you decide whether or not getting a tattoo is good for you.
1. How does my heart and my conscience convict me? Do I have freedom in Christ and a clear conscience before the Lord regarding the decision to get a tattoo? 2. Am I passing judgment on a brother or sister because I don't have freedom in Christ to receive a tattoo? 3. Will I still want this tattoo years from now? 4. Will my parents and family approve, and/or will my future spouse want me to have this tattoo? 5. Will I cause a weaker brother to stumble or will I help edify the body of Christ if I receive a tattoo? 6. Is my decision based on faith and will the result be glorifying to God?
Ask for His guidance, pray for it. May God bless you!
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on September 01, 2014, 02:48:25 PM
TS, wala bang signs na good to go to get a tattoo? usually...universe will tell you easily..by making everything fall into place... I think, if your doubting and still have to ask for people for advice..baka di ka pa ready to get inked... for me rak en roll lang...think too much,fuzz too much..it aint rock en roll...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 01, 2014, 03:21:03 PM
TS, wala bang signs na good to go to get a tattoo? usually...universe will tell you easily..by making everything fall into place... I think, if your doubting and still have to ask for people for advice..baka di ka pa ready to get inked... for me rak en roll lang...think too much,fuzz too much..it aint rock en roll...
tama si sir gandy. simple lang din ang punto nya. if you're doubting this much about getting inked, maybe you're not ready. Usually, if you are, design na lang ang poproblemahin mo. Modern tattoo arts per se isn't even an object of close religious scrutiny because it is a mostly secular art.
Perhaps you have to reflect and pray more not about tattoos, but to ascertain the meaning and value of the things in this world, which indeed have bearing towards your acts as a servant of God, or are merely being vilified by the will of men using God as an excuse.
Remember, if the rules of God and of men confuse you, you only need to remember what Jesus taught us, and that is everything is rooted in love.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on September 01, 2014, 03:37:29 PM
tama si sir gandy. simple lang din ang punto nya. if you're doubting this much about getting inked, maybe you're not ready. Usually, if you are, design na lang ang poproblemahin mo. Modern tattoo arts per se isn't even an object of close religious scrutiny because it is a mostly secular art.
Perhaps you have to reflect and pray more not about tattoos, but to ascertain the meaning and value of the things in this world, which indeed have bearing towards your acts as a servant of God, or are merely being vilified by the will of men using God as an excuse.
Remember, if the rules of God and of men confuse you, you only need to remember what Jesus taught us, and that is everything is rooted in love.
tama, un rin dapat maging number one concern mo ts, once you get the tattoo, un na un, kung ndi mo na gusto, ndi basta basta mapapatangal, surgery pwede pero magastos ska time consuming, tapos ung sa iba pa kitang kita ung scars.. meron naman malinis ang pagkakatangal
kung magpapa tattoo ka dapat ready ka to face the criticism especially those religious folks.. but in the end na sayo parin ang desisyon, don't be afraid to make decisions, go for what you want...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on September 01, 2014, 03:54:28 PM
actually..unang una kung apektado ko ka sa mga sinasabi ng tao..at ng society or job, family whatever...
di mo pa deserve tats mo... dapat dala mo tattoos mo...confidence and pride..strength....non conformist,,sticking up against the man!....Henry Rollins.. Im so good in what I do, and I live a righteous life.. you cant pin me down..you cant touch me..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: nicoyow on September 01, 2014, 04:54:11 PM
actually..unang una kung apektado ko ka sa mga sinasabi ng tao..at ng society or job, family whatever...
di mo pa deserve tats mo... dapat dala mo tattoos mo...confidence and pride..strength....non conformist,,sticking up against the man!....Henry Rollins.. Im so good in what I do, and I live a righteous life.. you cant pin me down..you cant touch me..
Yeah salamat Sir Gandy. actually hnd ko naman iniiisip ung sasabihin nila. Salamat sa mga replies. Naapektohan lang ako don sa nangyare sa kaibigan ko. :cry:
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: jpreal on September 11, 2014, 01:36:10 PM
Hello po,
Share ko lang...
Background lang po:
- Pastor's Kid po ako - My dad pastors a church in the province kaya he entrusted me to his pastor friend here in the metro - Worship leader po ako - nag patattoo po ako a year ago - motivation for the ink: my pastor had a message about the hebrew language and how a hebrew word/name paints a picture that reflects a deeper meaning (long topic) - my name has a hebrew origin, and did a research about it then decided to have it tattooed on my right shoulder blade up to a portion of my neck
on a personal level, I firmly believe that having a tattoo does not make you less of a christian.
this verse:
Romans 8:39 (NIV) neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
the ink actually is a good conversation starter, nakasilip kasi sa ng konti sa leeg ko...
I believe as the church matures, it will be more forgiving as Jesus is... No condemnation, just love and acceptance...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on September 11, 2014, 02:32:16 PM
Quote
Now, it is often argued that tattoos do not carry the same meaning as they did in the OT, and that Christians are no longer under the commands of the old covenant, so if a Christian wants to get a tattoo or pierce his tongue, then he should be allowed to.
I would never argue that we are to enforce upon the Christian believer the OT law codes God gave to Israel for them to remain a distinct, theocratic nation. However, I do believe Christians should exercise wisdom when they consider getting tattoos or any body piercings. Let me repeat that so I am clear: Christian need to exercise wisdom if and when they are seriously thinking about tattoos or body-piercing.
First, I would ask any believer to question himself as to why he wants a tattoo or a body piercing. What exactly is the purpose of getting it? The plain fact of the matter is that any tattoo or piercing is a self-centered thing. The primary purpose of tattoos is to draw attention to the person, and a Christian should question whether or not such a practice is for the express purpose of drawing attention to one’s self. Does it truly honor the Lord? Or will it negatively affect not only the person’s physical body, but the body of Christ?
Secondly, though some Christians want to argue that tattoos and piercings are no longer connected to pagan customs, I would argue that this is not necessarily the case. Even in our modern society, getting a tattoo is still primarily a sub-culturally practice.
The main groups of individuals who sport tattooing on their bodies are those people who are outside the norms of our American society. It is the bikers, the criminal gang element, the rock and roll culture, the Gothic culture, and other groups that act in rebellion toward the mainstream of society that generally have tattoos and piercings. Even though tattooing is becoming more “mainstream” to where it isn’t only exclusive to those various subversive groups, when it comes down to it, people get tattoos for the purpose of being edgy, narcissistic, and out of the mainstream, which is kind of ironic anyways seeing that it is “mainstream” people who want to be out of the mainstream, but I digress.
Ultimately, these are folks who don’t like to be told what to do, what to believe, and go to great lengths to demonstrate opposition toward those in authority who want to hold them accountable to their behavior, particularly the Lord and Scripture. They have a profound sense of individualism that is idolatry.
If a Christian wants to get a tattoo, even though I believe there isn’t any direct command against doing it, he needs to take those things into consideration and determine if whether or not he wants to be associated with these various, worldly groups whose worldview promotes rebellious attitudes.
Then third, tattooing and piercing is often done by immature, impetuous folks who want to be trendy, and thus they do not think of the consequences of putting a permanent mark on their body. When they “grow up,” and lay aside their prolonged “childhood to genuinely become serious about life, a family, and a real job, having tattoos and piercing holes all over their bodies tends to be a distraction for them. I personally know many Christians who got a tattoo when they were young unbelievers and now they regret it something terrible. It’s one thing to get a tattoo as an undiscerning non-Christian; it’s quite another if you want to get a tattoo as a discerning Christian. All Christians need to ponder carefully whether a tattoo or a body piercing is something they are willing to live with the rest of their life, before they get one.
Text from http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/christians-and-tattoos/ (http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/christians-and-tattoos/)
I used to shrug off old folks' counsel that I thought were unreasonable and irrelevant. Then my father once told me, kung hindi man dahil sa respeto mo ako papakinggan, maniwala ka na lang na sa buhay, mas malayo nalakad ko sa iyo, at may mga bagay na nalalaman ako na hindi mo pa alam, kahit masmatalino ka sa akin... Granted that I say old folks are not the wisest, their tastes quite often not parallel with ours, still there is wisdom in their counsel.. Lalo na kung spiritually more mature sila than us..
I get it we live by grace.. But if we who believe take time to understand the nature of God, His Person, His Righteousness, His justice, His wrath, His redemptive work when He came as a man to die for our sins, His final judgement - truths which the apostles, Peter, Paul, and all who presented the Gospel labored so that those who will believe will know Whom they are believing - we will have a better picture and attitude of what is grace is all about..
Tattoo is a small, insignificant thing in the context of human freedom.. But to a Christian point of view, 'freedom' already is qualified, the Lord Jesus Christ its standard.. This maybe a philosophical blunder of reasoning, but if Christ aptly describes an improper view at a woman as adultery, while we may contend that 'looking' is just a small, appreciative thing, the judgement of the Lord stays and prevails.. It's not the looking that He has judged, but the heart that gave the impetus to ogle..
Tattoo, as many Christians would conclude, shows more of a heart still enamored with self less than that of a heart concerned with others or that of testimony.. Like this old joke (sorry if it is explicit) I found on some blog.. - A man goes to a woman, and asks, "would you sleep with me for one million dollars?" (indecent proposal) - Woman: for one million dollars? Sure, why not.. - Man: Would you sleep with me for a buck? - Woman: You're gross! Just what do you think I am? - Man: Oh, we know now what you are. We're just haggling over price.
The danger of tats, IMHO, is that after I have pronounced I have given myself to Christ, that He is number one in my Heart, the Lord, Savior, God, Healer, Cleanser, my All in all -- all those will be put to naught because the tats would just scream out He is not those I testified him to be.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 11, 2014, 02:54:08 PM
Text from http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/christians-and-tattoos/ (http://hipandthigh.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/christians-and-tattoos/)
I used to shrug off old folks' counsel that I thought were unreasonable and irrelevant. Then my father once told me, kung hindi man dahil sa respeto mo ako papakinggan, maniwala ka na lang na sa buhay, mas malayo nalakad ko sa iyo, at may mga bagay na nalalaman ako na hindi mo pa alam, kahit masmatalino ka sa akin... Granted that I say old folks are not the wisest, their tastes quite often not parallel with ours, still there is wisdom in their counsel.. Lalo na kung spiritually more mature sila than us..
I get it we live by grace.. But if we who believe take time to understand the nature of God, His Person, His Righteousness, His justice, His wrath, His redemptive work when He came as a man to die for our sins, His final judgement - truths which the apostles, Peter, Paul, and all who presented the Gospel labored so that those who will believe will know Whom they are believing - we will have a better picture and attitude of what is grace is all about..
Tattoo is a small, insignificant thing in the context of human freedom.. But to a Christian point of view, 'freedom' already is qualified, the Lord Jesus Christ its standard.. This maybe a philosophical blunder of reasoning, but if Christ aptly describes an improper view at a woman as adultery, while we may contend that 'looking' is just a small, appreciative thing, the judgement of the Lord stays and prevails.. It's not the looking that He has judged, but the heart that gave the impetus to ogle..
Tattoo, as many Christians would conclude, shows more of a heart still enamored with self less than that of a heart concerned with others or that of testimony.. Like this old joke (sorry if it is explicit) I found on some blog.. - A man goes to a woman, and asks, "would you sleep with me for one million dollars?" (indecent proposal) - Woman: for one million dollars? Sure, why not.. - Man: Would you sleep with me for a buck? - Woman: You're gross! Just what do you think I am? - Man: Oh, we know now what you are. We're just haggling over price.
The danger of tats, IMHO, is that after I have pronounced I have given myself to Christ, that He is number one in my Heart, the Lord, Savior, God, Healer, Cleanser, my All in all -- all those will be put to naught because the tats would just scream out He is not those I testified him to be.
Correct me if I'm wrong, does the logic of this text ultimately point out that getting a tattoo is a selfish act because it is an act of focus on the self?
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on September 12, 2014, 09:50:50 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, does the logic of this text ultimately point out that getting a tattoo is a selfish act because it is an act of focus on the self?
Ah, logic, the dreaded subject of my college philo class.. :)
Yes, from my text I opined that church musicians who get tats do it for themselves..
Is it a selfish act? If selfish you mean this: (google search result)
Quote
self·ish adjective (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. synonyms: egocentric, egotistic, egotistical, egomaniacal, self-centered, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, self-seeking, self-serving, wrapped up in oneself;
Anything done in an egoistical attitude and heart to the detriment of others, not only tats, indeed is selfish..
My point is this: the truthfulness of our testimony..
Quote
The danger of tats, IMHO, is that after I have pronounced I have given myself to Christ, that He is number one in my Heart, the Lord, Savior, God, Healer, Cleanser, my All in all -- all those will be put to naught because the tats would just scream out He is not those I testified him to be.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 12, 2014, 10:00:26 AM
Ah, logic, the dreaded subject of my college philo class.. :)
Yes, from my text I opined that church musicians who get tats do it for themselves..
Is it a selfish act? If selfish you mean this: (google search result) Anything done in an egoistical attitude and heart to the detriment of others, not only tats, indeed is selfish..
My point is this: the truthfulness of our testimony..
How does the tattoo undermine the truthfulness of our testimony? I think I have missed the link of the previous idea to this one.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: jpreal on September 12, 2014, 11:59:59 AM
Is it a selfish act? If selfish you mean this: (google search result) Anything done in an egoistical attitude and heart to the detriment of others, not only tats, indeed is selfish..
My point is this: the truthfulness of our testimony..
In my honest opinion, one act (getting inked, in this example) cannot lessen someone's relationship with Jesus nor the truthfulness of our testimony.
We all have different ways of expressing our faith and love for Him.
How does the tattoo undermine the truthfulness of our testimony? I think I have missed the link of the previous idea to this one.
This^^^
I want to clear this, do you mean:
Kung sakali nga na talagang "pang porma lang" or for "fashion" (selfish) ang motivation behind getting inked, then...
yun din ba ang effect sa testimony naten kung bibili tayo ng taylor, gibson, fender, martin etc. na gitara dahil maganda, maporma at maangas at dahil ako lang ang may gusto?
Just want to clear things out... :-)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 12, 2014, 12:03:43 PM
In my honest opinion, one act (getting inked, in this example) cannot lessen someone's relationship with Jesus nor the truthfulness of our testimony.
We all have different ways of expressing our faith and love for Him.
This^^^
I want to clear this, do you mean:
Kung sakali nga na talagang "pang porma lang" or for "fashion" (selfish) ang motivation behind getting inked, then...
yun din ba ang effect sa testimony naten kung bibili tayo ng taylor, gibson, fender, martin etc. na gitara dahil maganda, maporma at maangas at dahil ako lang ang may gusto?
Just want to clear things out... :-)
This is also why I want this cleared, because the flow of the argument wasn't clear, it kinda just jumped to the conclusion. Or perhaps it was in the writing which made it seem so. While I have my opinion on this, of course I don't want to argue if I don't understand what I'm up against :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on September 12, 2014, 01:06:58 PM
Yey, thanks man! I'm getting a lesson on how to present ideas.. :) Lord bless you, bro..
Sorry if my arguments doesn't support the conclusion I jumped to. Anyway, I went on to that from how I took iyung development ng kwento.. Like, a musician got a tat, got some reactions from the church his friend didn't quite approve, counsels came along the line na 'if you like it, go for it kahit ano sabihin ng iba (I'm sorry if this is a bad misquote), then some discussions about law and everything..
So I hinted una na we shouldn't dismiss right away the reactions of the church.. Lalo na if we know some who are more spiritually mature than us.. Ergo, don't go for tats ignoring how church might react.. there might be wisdom in their reaction.. I'm sorry if I discount na meron nga namang unreasonable reactions.. I get this too many a times in the ministry..
Next, iyung issue about the law, and the talk of grace, liberty in Christ, and the like.. For me, amazing grace appreciated comes from a heart, changed by the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, that have taken to learn about the attributes of God.. And this does takes time.. Para ma-avoid ang pag-abuse ng grace or ng ating liberty..
Last iyung testimony thing.. Yes, I'm aware I did not connect my ideas to this.. Pero I will try..
I am not comfortable, thus I will not suggest the 'go for it if you like it' lalo na iyung 'don't mind what others will say' in the context of the musician in the church, or as a Christian. I know that there are times those suggestions are the right thing, like say, preaching the gospel.. But the act being talked about, is tats.. This wouldn't be a problem if all in that musician's church, or for any other church or pastor or what not, is not wary of tats..
So if I go ahead and have my tats, and cause some old (and young) folks to suddenly question the authenticity of my faith and my testimony, could I really just ignore their query? Can I just go ahead and give them a colossal shrug because it's my thing? If you're involved in anything about ministry, it's most often about others, I believe..
Then on to grace and liberty.. Simply put, when I made the public declaration of my faith in Christ, I had to be careful of the picture I paint of myself.. And more so when they suddenly gave me a microphone and told me what for me during the first time was a weird ministry, 'song leading'.. And oh, there were many things I did that went against such public declaration.. Most of it I wasn't even aware.. My reading of His word, also the church, my parents, fellow ministers, pastors, friends, pointed those out to me..
So, I said that the danger of having a tat is that.. After a joyful declaration of Christ as all in all, inking after is a much less support of said declaration.. And yes, I insinuated that it may even tell otherwise.. To the those who witnessed my declaration, to the church, to my music team, they might indeed question the truthfulness of my testimony..
So how does a tat undermine the truthfulness of my testimony? It might just reveal that in reality, be it of spiritual immaturity or something else, in my heart the one sitting on the throne is me, not Christ (and sabi ko nga, not just tats, but any other acts that would betray).. In what way, like how I might have chosen to ignore it's effect on the church, on the brethren, with my fellow music team because it's my thing; or like how I might have used the idea I'm no longer under the law but under grace to allay any questions or fears lingering in my mind about the action..
If this conclusion is not logically sound, then I'm sorry indeed.. :)
As for the one asking about guitars, if without those maangas pile of wood you feel or think you can no longer be an effective worship leader, or if it gives you a better 'lift' during worship times.. your worship might mean something else other than that of Christ..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 12, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
Yey, thanks man! I'm getting a lesson on how to present ideas.. :) Lord bless you, bro..
Sorry if my arguments doesn't support the conclusion I jumped to. Anyway, I went on to that from how I took iyung development ng kwento.. Like, a musician got a tat, got some reactions from the church his friend didn't quite approve, counsels came along the line na 'if you like it, go for it kahit ano sabihin ng iba (I'm sorry if this is a bad misquote), then some discussions about law and everything..
So I hinted una na we shouldn't dismiss right away the reactions of the church.. Lalo na if we know some who are more spiritually mature than us.. Ergo, don't go for tats ignoring how church might react.. there might be wisdom in their reaction.. I'm sorry if I discount na meron nga namang unreasonable reactions.. I get this too many a times in the ministry..
Next, iyung issue about the law, and the talk of grace, liberty in Christ, and the like.. For me, amazing grace appreciated comes from a heart, changed by the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, that have taken to learn about the attributes of God.. And this does takes time.. Para ma-avoid ang pag-abuse ng grace or ng ating liberty..
Last iyung testimony thing.. Yes, I'm aware I did not connect my ideas to this.. Pero I will try..
I am not comfortable, thus I will not suggest the 'go for it if you like it' lalo na iyung 'don't mind what others will say' in the context of the musician in the church, or as a Christian. I know that there are times those suggestions are the right thing, like say, preaching the gospel.. But the act being talked about, is tats.. This wouldn't be a problem if all in that musician's church, or for any other church or pastor or what not, is not wary of tats..
So if I go ahead and have my tats, and cause some old (and young) folks to suddenly question the authenticity of my faith and my testimony, could I really just ignore their query? Can I just go ahead and give them a colossal shrug because it's my thing? If you're involved in anything about ministry, it's most often about others, I believe..
Then on to grace and liberty.. Simply put, when I made the public declaration of my faith in Christ, I had to be careful of the picture I paint of myself.. And more so when they suddenly gave me a microphone and told me what for me during the first time was a weird ministry, 'song leading'.. And oh, there were many things I did that went against such public declaration.. Most of it I wasn't even aware.. My reading of His word, also the church, my parents, fellow ministers, pastors, friends, pointed those out to me..
So, I said that the danger of having a tat is that.. After a joyful declaration of Christ as all in all, inking after is a much less support of said declaration.. And yes, I insinuated that it may even tell otherwise.. To the those who witnessed my declaration, to the church, to my music team, they might indeed question the truthfulness of my testimony..
So how does a tat undermine the truthfulness of my testimony? It might just reveal that in reality, be it of spiritual immaturity or something else, in my heart the one sitting on the throne is me, not Christ (and sabi ko nga, not just tats, but any other acts that would betray).. In what way, like how I might have chosen to ignore it's effect on the church, on the brethren, with my fellow music team because it's my thing; or like how I might have used the idea I'm no longer under the law but under grace to allay any questions or fears lingering in my mind about the action..
If this conclusion is not logically sound, then I'm sorry indeed.. :)
As for the one asking about guitars, if without those maangas pile of wood you feel or think you can no longer be an effective worship leader, or if it gives you a better 'lift' during worship times.. your worship might mean something else other than that of Christ..
I'm not saying your conclusion isn't logical bro, di ko lang sya na-connect agad :)
I do agree with one of your points, that if people question your actions, there must be something to it. However sometimes we do not know if those questions are borne out of personal belief, or is truly grounded in the teachings of Christ. We must understand that we are all still human too, and we all know too well how tenure or age does not guarantee correct understandings and views.
As in the bible, the leaders of the religion forbade a lot of the acts of Jesus because for hundreds of years they thought right what they thought was right, even if their laws came from God. But it is in this complacency and allegiance to religion that they all forgot that their allegiance is to God, not the rules He set for them. The acts of Jesus were things the elders and leaders reviled most. Taking criminals and outcasts to bear witness to Him. Accepting the very things the leaders questioned and ruled out. But why were these acts of Jesus acts of glory? Because the focus was not in pleasing the leaders or gaining the acceptance of the people, but to give God what is due him.
To me it seems that you may have confused your declaration and image to be so integral to your faith. It is not. You may have confused the judgment of your church with the quality of your faith.
I'm not a bible quote guy, but when I do, this is what I quote the most:
Matthew 6:1 Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 7:16-20 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
You and your body are the tree, and what you do is the truth. It's ultimately the fruits of your effort that count, not the effort itself. The tattoo is not the end nor the declaration. If the tattoo, which is merely a wound, would count so much against your faith in Christ, then you have weighed the tattoo so much more than what it is, and spent so much of your worries on it than to focus on Christ himself.
Therefore, it is not the tattoo, or tattooing that undermines your testimony, it is your worry about tattoos.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: El Mariachi on September 12, 2014, 05:02:31 PM
Ang tanong, may sumikat or naging tanyag na ba na religous/worship leader na tadtad ng tatoo? I mean, religous sya, God-fearing at spirit-filled pero naka tatoo? May naging fruitful na ba na religous organization SA PINAS na headed/founded by a man na "inked", kung meron man, pa share naman ng facts.. Kasi for me, hindi akma ang tatoo sa isang worship leader or any leader sa isang religous sect/organization lalo na sa pinas..It stimulates the mind to judge or condemn the person instantly wherein the one who judge already sinned..
Saka one thing, kung leader ka ng isang religous work/mission/organization, dapat you should be a ROLE MODEL.. Kasi posibleng ma-misinterpret ng next generation na tama lahat ginagawa ng isang taong may tatoo at gayahin pa ito..
Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..
Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 12, 2014, 05:16:08 PM
Ang tanong, may sumikat or naging tanyag na ba na religous/worship leader na tadtad ng tatoo? I mean, religous sya, God-fearing at spirit-filled pero naka tatoo? May naging fruitful na ba na religous organization SA PINAS na headed/founded by a man na "inked", kung meron man, pa share naman ng facts.. Kasi for me, hindi akma ang tatoo sa isang worship leader or any leader sa isang religous sect/organization lalo na sa pinas..It stimulates the mind to judge or condemn the person instantly wherein the one who judge already sinned..
Saka one thing, kung leader ka ng isang religous work/mission/organization, dapat you should be a ROLE MODEL.. Kasi posibleng ma-misinterpret ng next generation na tama lahat ginagawa ng isang taong may tatoo at gayahin pa ito..
Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..
Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......
Magandang point ito. Pero tulad ng sabi mo sir, stereotype yung pag pintado ang isang tao basagulero, adik, etc. Oo, mali na i-invite yung mindset ng pagiging adik, basagulero, kriminal, patapon sa church. hindi role model ang mga ganung tao.
But at the same time ang solusyon ba natin dun ay mag-judge ng tao? Oo, it stimulates the mind to judge, pero ang solusyon ba dun ay itago ang mga huhusgahan, o dapat natin ituro sa ating church na huwag manghusga? Diba dapat yung pangalawa? Kasi kung itataboy at ipagbabawal lang natin ang mga pintado sa church para na ring sinabi natin na ok lang maging judgmental kasi wala naman tayong ija-judge.
Si Jesus ba sino ang mga hinikayat niya na sumama sa kanya? Tax collectors (parang mga pulitiko ngayon), kriminal, mga may sakit, manggagantso. Tapos ano ang solusyon natin sa pagiging judgmental - itaboy sila lahat, para hindi tayo matulad sa kanila. Pag magiging lider ka ng church, kahit lahat ng gawin mo higit pa sa mga ginawa ng santo, wag ka lang magkatato. Ganun na ba tayo ngayon?
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on September 12, 2014, 05:21:24 PM
Therefore, it is not the tattoo, or tattooing that undermines your testimony, it is your worry about tattoos.
Yes of course, I worry about that.. But not because I confused my declaration and image with my faith, nor the judgement or rebuke of the church.. What I'm basing that on is that declaration goes with faith, like "keeping watch of life and doctrine (1 Tim 4:6)".. Of course, tats is a little thing on the 'life', as you say it's but a wound.. That's why I think I said, uhh, and other acts that betray the truthfulness of who the lord of my life is..
I know the verses you sited.. Yet they aren't only the ones written.. Also, for the verses you sited, the Lord exposes the reality of the 'declaration' or the acts they make: it's not for the glory of God, as you've said.. It's for themselves.. Their hearts made the seemingly correct act filthy.. That's my point.. I think I cannot say I'm inking for the Glory of my Lord Jesus Christ! And for other 'acts' if I may:
- I'm practicing guitar while I don't even lift a finger to help my wife with the chores, and I say I love the Lord! - I'm not preparing the songs I will sing in advance and praying about because I'm pretty used at worship leading, and I will say I sing for the glory of the Lord! - I have a slight headeache, and reason out I'm not feeling okay to excuse myself from worship team practice, and I will say I live to worship you Lord Jesus!
I've said and done those things.. I've listened to some youth pastors lament the hypocrisy in their teams.. Why? Because like me, I've started with no one saying 'take good care of your testimony.' That I'm surrounded by a great cloud of witness, those who hear and see the declarations I make of my faith.. Then what, my actions just showed I didn't know what I was talking about..
Taking from an example right here, ron_rd57 quipped in here before, to say to have tats to win souls is absurd.. Why'd he thought of that, I don't know.. But I can opine that the inked sharer may be saying he/she wants to share the gospel and thus have her/himself inked; to ron, the sharer just wants to appear cool to the audience.. The sharer may innocently or maliciously thinks he/she does it for Christ, but nay, it's not..
And now I'm straying far from tats.. :-D Sorry.. Ayun lang talaga, na mag-ingat sa pag-decide ang isang Christian in having tats (or better to not have it), and so much more with the day to day lives they live.. Like what you said, the fruits of what we do, the one manifesting the contents of inside, is what counts.. If someone who profess his faith think tats will produce no ill fruits or effects, and in no case will display an askew motive of heart or faith, that's their own discernment.. It's a little thing, yes, but our ability to handle little, external things may as well communicate how we will handle greater or more intimate things..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on September 12, 2014, 05:29:02 PM
Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..
Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......
I feel you last line.. So may mga nakausap ka nga? Hmm.. I think the discussion is going more on being judgmental.. Kasi nga naman, ganon ata nangyari sa friend ni TS.. Siguro magandang pag-usapan, when is rendering judgement righteous (acceptable kay Lord Jesus Christ), and when is it na it's worth a neck-tied-with-a-rock-and-thrown-to-the-sea?
:wave:
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: El Mariachi on September 12, 2014, 05:38:35 PM
Magandang point ito. Pero tulad ng sabi mo sir, stereotype yung pag pintado ang isang tao basagulero, adik, etc. Oo, mali na i-invite yung mindset ng pagiging adik, basagulero, kriminal, patapon sa church. hindi role model ang mga ganung tao.
But at the same time ang solusyon ba natin dun ay mag-judge ng tao? Oo, it stimulates the mind to judge, pero ang solusyon ba dun ay itago ang mga huhusgahan, o dapat natin ituro sa ating church na huwag manghusga? Diba dapat yung pangalawa? Kasi kung itataboy at ipagbabawal lang natin ang mga pintado sa church para na ring sinabi natin na ok lang maging judgmental kasi wala naman tayong ija-judge.
Si Jesus ba sino ang mga hinikayat niya na sumama sa kanya? Tax collectors (parang mga pulitiko ngayon), kriminal, mga may sakit, manggagantso. Tapos ano ang solusyon natin sa pagiging judgmental - itaboy sila lahat, para hindi tayo matulad sa kanila. Pag magiging lider ka ng church, kahit lahat ng gawin mo higit pa sa mga ginawa ng santo, wag ka lang magkatato. Ganun na ba tayo ngayon?
Thanks for the insights bro.. Pero sorry to say, BEING PART OF A WORSHIP TEAM for me is a big vocation and commitment for the Lord.. Madalas kasi na naka tatoo sa worship team, "banda dito banda doon" lang motive sa pagtugtog.. May deception na ngyayari most of the time.. Kaya inked men inside the church are OBVIOUS to be JUDGED.. Actually hindi na siya judgement eh, kasi katotohanan na ung pagjudge base on their real attitude OUTSIDE the church..Hahahaha
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: El Mariachi on September 12, 2014, 05:47:33 PM
I feel you last line.. So may mga nakausap ka nga? Hmm.. I think the discussion is going more on being judgmental.. Kasi nga naman, ganon ata nangyari sa friend ni TS.. Siguro magandang pag-usapan, when is rendering judgement righteous (acceptable kay Lord Jesus Christ), and when is it na it's worth a neck-tied-with-a-rock-and-thrown-to-the-sea?
:wave:
Yup sir.. Ang nakakalungkot pa.. Animal lover itong ka churchmate ko at ka worship team dati, Si redhorse at colt45 ang parating ka cell group.. At nakakalungkot pa, "chongki" sign pa selfie sa ig at fb.. Asan yung true heart for worship dun? Eh puro DECEPTION lang mangyayari,, tulad ng deception na ginawa ni lucifer.. Na sabi sa mga kwento eh worship leader din daw sa langit nung anghel pa siya.....
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 12, 2014, 06:03:40 PM
Thanks for the insights bro.. Pero sorry to say, BEING PART OF A WORSHIP TEAM for me is a big vocation and commitment for the Lord.. Madalas kasi na naka tatoo sa worship team, "banda dito banda doon" lang motive sa pagtugtog.. May deception na ngyayari most of the time.. Kaya inked men inside the church are OBVIOUS to be JUDGED.. Actually hindi na siya judgement eh, kasi katotohanan na ung pagjudge base on their real attitude OUTSIDE the church..Hahahaha
Oo, totoo, malaking vocation yan, commitment yan, pero isipin natin, ang tatoo ba ang sanhi ng attitude nila sa labas ng church?
Kahit wala silang tattoo, kung ganun na ang motibo nila sa pagpasok sa worship team, ganun na sila. Kung deception ang pag-uusapan, hindi ba mas deceptive pa sila kung wala silang tattoo pero ganun din ang attitude at motibo, "banda rito banda roon" ika mo nga, kasi nakaka-free pass sila sa judgment ninyo kasi nakatuon ang judgment nyo sa mga pintado.
Music ministry ako dati. Umalis ako sa parehong dahilan: sila mga gusto mag-banda, hindi ang Kristo ang unang dahilan nila kaya sila nasa ministry. Ni isa sa kanila walang pintado. Pero ang image nila mga good boys and girls at lahat ng mga elders at leaders namin tuwang tuwa sa kanila. Yan ang totoong deception. Pero may kilala ako dati na kababata ko, pintado sya, "tribal" design ang tattoo nya, yung uso nung 90s. Pero mas malapit pa sya sa diyos kesa sakin. Mga payo nya sakin: wag ka papadala kay ganyan, nagddrugs yan. Ok lang mag party, pero mindful ka sa ginagawa mo, mag-aral ka nang mabuti, pray for strength, pag tumutugtog ka sa music ministry, magpractice ka ng tugtog sa bahay, para pag service na naka-focus ka sa salita na kinakanta mo para maisapuso mo. Pero pintado sya.
I acknowledge naman na iniisip mo rin yung stigma ng tattoos at tattooed people sa church nyo. Pero ganun na lang ba? Status quo, let them be judged, and let us judge. Uy may bago tayong church member, ngayon ko lang sya nakilala, pero pintado, adik siguro yan, ganun na lang ba?
Sakin lang, we are only human, so we can judge, kasi ako rin naman. And thus I can't fault you for judging your current tattooed churchmates, kasi sabi mo nga alam naman niyo nang hindi sila tapat sa vocation nila. Kahit ako mabubuwisit sa kanila. Pero pag may iba tayong nakitang hindi pintado, dapat kilalanin muna natin.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 12, 2014, 06:12:44 PM
I feel you last line.. So may mga nakausap ka nga? Hmm.. I think the discussion is going more on being judgmental.. Kasi nga naman, ganon ata nangyari sa friend ni TS.. Siguro magandang pag-usapan, when is rendering judgement righteous (acceptable kay Lord Jesus Christ), and when is it na it's worth a neck-tied-with-a-rock-and-thrown-to-the-sea?
:wave:
The only acceptable kinds of judgment are the ones by the force of law (of whichever kind), and the judgment of God himself. The kind of judgment we do which is most prevalent and also unacceptable is called prejudice, where we judge people before we know them, and before a person has been proven to have committed any transgression. But even if a person has committed any transgression, judgment outside the rule of law on our part is still not permissible, because this distances us from the person, ostracizing him or her, and we ourselves prevent forgiveness to happen, and if forgiveness fails, then he or she may fail to repent for her transgressions and sins as well. Therefore, and simply, judgment aside from the two kinds previously mentioned are self-righteous, and self-righteousness in itself is something the Lord does not approve.
Interesting how a simple, prevalent, and totally human act of prejudice distances us from Christ?
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: El Mariachi on September 12, 2014, 08:55:51 PM
I guess getting "inked" eh nasa perception lang ng tao kung positive or negative (church person perspective).. pero for me, I adhere to say that getting tattoos while playing in a worship team is big NO... :-( (i'm being honest, sorry po)
about judgement naman, Good judgement counts, in layman's term: CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - form of discipleship. A life without discipline will not bear good fruit.. Discipline = Discipleship .
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." -John 7:24
As for me, I judge according to 'obvious acts' especially if its wrong.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: mayok on September 12, 2014, 09:31:33 PM
pwede makisali mga bro tungkol sa pag jujudge. kapag nasa loob kana ng church tayo tayo ang nagjudge ng act ngbawat bahagi ng katawan sabi ni paul. 1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. wala tayo karapatan magjudge ng taga labas si God na daw bahala sa kanila.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: El Mariachi on September 13, 2014, 10:42:54 AM
Back to TS topic... I would suggest,,, study your heart, kung gusto mo talaga pa tattoo... Malay naten, the oldies/elders inside the church will clearly see your intentions and motives in serving the Lord.. Prove them wrong na ang isang kabataan na may tattoo ay hindi "suited for discepleship" and CHURCH GROWTH.. Pero its a hard way brother.. Be ready for criticisms all through out your commitment. Ask yourself, am I an effective worship musician? God will give you signs bro! If its a yes or no... God bless TS! Rok on for Jesus!
Ps. Ganito din sinabi ko sa ka worship team ko na may tats, kaso I fail in enlightening him, balik pa rin sa makamundong buhay ang attitude niya, how sad...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: nicoyow on September 13, 2014, 04:20:58 PM
Ps. Ganito din sinabi ko sa ka worship team ko na may tats, kaso I fail in enlightening him, balik pa rin sa makamundong buhay ang attitude niya, how sad...
Yow bro. thanks. I'll keep that in mind.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on September 14, 2014, 05:42:00 AM
Oo, totoo, malaking vocation yan, commitment yan, pero isipin natin, ang tatoo ba ang sanhi ng attitude nila sa labas ng church?
Kahit wala silang tattoo, kung ganun na ang motibo nila sa pagpasok sa worship team, ganun na sila. Kung deception ang pag-uusapan, hindi ba mas deceptive pa sila kung wala silang tattoo pero ganun din ang attitude at motibo, "banda rito banda roon" ika mo nga, kasi nakaka-free pass sila sa judgment ninyo kasi nakatuon ang judgment nyo sa mga pintado.
Music ministry ako dati. Umalis ako sa parehong dahilan: sila mga gusto mag-banda, hindi ang Kristo ang unang dahilan nila kaya sila nasa ministry. Ni isa sa kanila walang pintado. Pero ang image nila mga good boys and girls at lahat ng mga elders at leaders namin tuwang tuwa sa kanila. Yan ang totoong deception. Pero may kilala ako dati na kababata ko, pintado sya, "tribal" design ang tattoo nya, yung uso nung 90s. Pero mas malapit pa sya sa diyos kesa sakin. Mga payo nya sakin: wag ka papadala kay ganyan, nagddrugs yan. Ok lang mag party, pero mindful ka sa ginagawa mo, mag-aral ka nang mabuti, pray for strength, pag tumutugtog ka sa music ministry, magpractice ka ng tugtog sa bahay, para pag service na naka-focus ka sa salita na kinakanta mo para maisapuso mo. Pero pintado sya.
I acknowledge naman na iniisip mo rin yung stigma ng tattoos at tattooed people sa church nyo. Pero ganun na lang ba? Status quo, let them be judged, and let us judge. Uy may bago tayong church member, ngayon ko lang sya nakilala, pero pintado, adik siguro yan, ganun na lang ba?
Sakin lang, we are only human, so we can judge, kasi ako rin naman. And thus I can't fault you for judging your current tattooed churchmates, kasi sabi mo nga alam naman niyo nang hindi sila tapat sa vocation nila. Kahit ako mabubuwisit sa kanila. Pero pag may iba tayong nakitang hindi pintado, dapat kilalanin muna natin.
this is so true,,, Christians nowadays, makes judgment based on appearance, (John 7:24) read the scripture and you will see that the kind of attitude a lot of Christians have is what the opposite of what Christ had shown in His time on Earth... Sad to say there are a lot of Christians instead of loving people and representing Christ they represent the pharisees, they represent their theologies, their religion, their self righteousness, their opinions... and not the Kingdom of God.. :-(
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on September 14, 2014, 06:05:33 AM
Ang tanong, may sumikat or naging tanyag na ba na religous/worship leader na tadtad ng tatoo? I mean, religous sya, God-fearing at spirit-filled pero naka tatoo? May naging fruitful na ba na religous organization SA PINAS na headed/founded by a man na "inked", kung meron man, pa share naman ng facts.. Kasi for me, hindi akma ang tatoo sa isang worship leader or any leader sa isang religous sect/organization lalo na sa pinas..It stimulates the mind to judge or condemn the person instantly wherein the one who judge already sinned..
Saka one thing, kung leader ka ng isang religous work/mission/organization, dapat you should be a ROLE MODEL.. Kasi posibleng ma-misinterpret ng next generation na tama lahat ginagawa ng isang taong may tatoo at gayahin pa ito..
Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..
Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......
stereotype? then how bout those religious people or religious leaders na maayos nga ang pananamit but are guilty of raping and molesting a person or even a child, stealing money and allowing corruption in the church?, someone who deceives people telling them they are the "sent one"...That stereo type thing you speak off is rather out of place...
yup there are religious leaders who also have a tattoo, like Mattie Montgomery, Todd Bentley, at alam ko marami pa, even one of the worship leaders in Hillsong church, named Joel Houston have one in his right arm... but still God is using them for the advancement of His kingdom and were not in position to judge them, yup may mga relihiyoso na naman na gagamit ng 1 corinthians 5...
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
but based on the context kaya sinabi ni Paul un sa book of Corinthians is because of immorality that is happening with their brethren..
kaya isa lang ang pde tanong sa mga nanghuhusga sa mga tattoo especially those who are in the ministry or are Christians.. Is their personal choice of having body art of tattoo abusive and offensive to you? As long as no one is violated, abuse, or offended, i believe it is not a sin...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: El Mariachi on September 14, 2014, 01:35:17 PM
stereotype? then how bout those religious people or religious leaders na maayos nga ang pananamit but are guilty of raping and molesting a person or even a child, stealing money and allowing corruption in the church?, someone who deceives people telling them they are the "sent one"...That stereo type thing you speak off is rather out of place...
yup there are religious leaders who also have a tattoo, like Mattie Montgomery, Todd Bentley, at alam ko marami pa, even one of the worship leaders in Hillsong church, named Joel Houston have one in his right arm... but still God is using them for the advancement of His kingdom and were not in position to judge them, yup may mga relihiyoso na naman na gagamit ng 1 corinthians 5...
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
but based on the context kaya sinabi ni Paul un sa book of Corinthians is because of immorality that is happening with their brethren..
kaya isa lang ang pde tanong sa mga nanghuhusga sa mga tattoo especially those who are in the ministry or are Christians.. Is their personal choice of having body art of tattoo abusive and offensive to you? As long as no one is violated, abuse, or offended, i believe it is not a sin...
I emphasized SA PINAS bro! (Look up din pag may time) Lahat ng minention mo eh sa outside ng bansa naten na very liberated towards faith..
I wont argue. I said my part and respected the TS's question. I've debated a lot of person like you na ang hirap paliwanagan. Palibhasa matigas ulo at ayaw pa-disiplina.
This is my last post.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on September 14, 2014, 02:39:48 PM
ron_rd57
always nice to read your posts!
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: nicoyow on September 14, 2014, 07:59:03 PM
this is so true,,, Christians nowadays, makes judgment based on appearance, (John 7:24) read the scripture and you will see that the kind of attitude a lot of Christians have is what the opposite of what Christ had shown in His time on Earth... Sad to say there are a lot of Christians instead of loving people and representing Christ they represent the pharisees, they represent their theologies, their religion, their self righteousness, their opinions... and not the Kingdom of God.. :-(
Yeah i remember when I was a newbie in our music ministry, my first time in front playing guitars. Some people says, why is my guitar so low that it looks like I'm playing punk music? (hanggang hita) why is he doing headbang? (not so headbang like gigging outside, just a body reaction on the music i hear and i play during that time) why my hair is long? why my guitar looks rugged? ( a relic'd strat that my friend helped me assembling it, coudn't afford to buy my own that time)
hahaha so many comments can't remember the others. :oops:
but still, I'm here, playing and doing what i love. Bringing a good music to lead the congregation to the presence of the Lord!
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on September 15, 2014, 02:15:04 AM
I emphasized SA PINAS bro! (Look up din pag may time) Lahat ng minention mo eh sa outside ng bansa naten na very liberated towards faith..
I wont argue. I said my part and respected the TS's question. I've debated a lot of person like you na ang hirap paliwanagan. Palibhasa matigas ulo at ayaw pa-disiplina.
This is my last post.
peace bro.. :) wala naman masama sa sinabi mo at sa sinabi ko... its ok to share your opinion, ok lang rin makipag debate... pero to be a dogma is a different thing... telling me na matigas ang ulo ko at ayaw ko ng disciplina, is a very judgmental criticism.. just as i said don't judge the person by appearance, and I also gonna add don't judge a person if you don't know what he/she had been through..
and fyi i don't even have a tattoo, and not planning to have one yet.. i'm not justifying myself... bka ndi muna not because of religious reasons but because of employment and professionalism isa ko dun sa mga maayos manamit, the only difference is I don't judge people who dress differently than me... :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on September 15, 2014, 02:47:30 AM
I used to be a legalistic judgmental religious person, I also used to hang around with those kinds of people, Until the day the Lord enlightened me na mali ang ganitong attitude ko at pati na rin sa mga brethren na ksama ko.. One of the best lesson and message I learned in life is that Christ didn't bring a religion but the Kingdom of God.. relationship with God is more important than religious traditions.. and this kinds of minor issues is because of religion.. one of the greatest trauma that happened in the world is caused by religion.. religion cause divisions(denominations), while Christ desires His children to be one (John 17:21)
yup its important to gently extort and rebuke our brethren who fell into sin. but to criticize and condemn someone in a minor issue is just so wrong, The greatest commandment that God has given to us is to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind
and to love your neighbor as your self.. judging and condemning someone based on appearance or in minor issues how in the world could that be love?
Magandang point ito. Pero tulad ng sabi mo sir, stereotype yung pag pintado ang isang tao basagulero, adik, etc. Oo, mali na i-invite yung mindset ng pagiging adik, basagulero, kriminal, patapon sa church. hindi role model ang mga ganung tao.
But at the same time ang solusyon ba natin dun ay mag-judge ng tao? Oo, it stimulates the mind to judge, pero ang solusyon ba dun ay itago ang mga huhusgahan, o dapat natin ituro sa ating church na huwag manghusga? Diba dapat yung pangalawa? Kasi kung itataboy at ipagbabawal lang natin ang mga pintado sa church para na ring sinabi natin na ok lang maging judgmental kasi wala naman tayong ija-judge.
Si Jesus ba sino ang mga hinikayat niya na sumama sa kanya? Tax collectors (parang mga pulitiko ngayon), kriminal, mga may sakit, manggagantso. Tapos ano ang solusyon natin sa pagiging judgmental - itaboy sila lahat, para hindi tayo matulad sa kanila. Pag magiging lider ka ng church, kahit lahat ng gawin mo higit pa sa mga ginawa ng santo, wag ka lang magkatato. Ganun na ba tayo ngayon?
tama.. sabi nga sa Mark 2:17 Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." setting up an image of self righteousness will not attract unbelievers to Christ pero mas madagdagan lang rin ang mga Pharisees sa church..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on September 15, 2014, 08:30:57 AM
I guess getting "inked" eh nasa perception lang ng tao kung positive or negative (church person perspective).. pero for me, I adhere to say that getting tattoos while playing in a worship team is big NO... :-( (i'm being honest, sorry po)
about judgement naman, Good judgement counts, in layman's term: CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - form of discipleship. A life without discipline will not bear good fruit.. Discipline = Discipleship .
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." -John 7:24
As for me, I judge according to 'obvious acts' especially if its wrong.
well, of course, youropinion on whether or not worship members should be inked is okay, opinion mo yan :) sa dahilan lang naman tayo nagkakaiba, and it's a good thing naman when we discuss these things.
+1 to constructive criticism. kung pwede lang sana lahat ng judgment natin ganun, but sadly we are only human :-(
Also, medyo OT, pero I think napaka importante rin na malaman mo kung allergic ka sa ink, or kung may skin issues ka :) Ako hindi ako makapagpatattoo dahil may skin allergies ako at prone din sa psoriasis :-(
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on September 17, 2014, 10:02:50 AM
kaya isa lang ang pde tanong sa mga nanghuhusga sa mga tattoo especially those who are in the ministry or are Christians.. Is their personal choice of having body art of tattoo abusive and offensive to you? As long as no one is violated, abuse, or offended, i believe it is not a sin...
So the TS was asking what we think of worship members with ink.. If the answer to the your first question is yes (meaning, as what the TS stated na binatikos iyung friend niya), then in your second statement it may be taken then that the inked musician did sin, because he offended someone else in their congregation..
Ahah, and this is a subtopic of "The Music Forums"..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: jemp on September 17, 2014, 10:58:17 AM
on my opinion no.. IM A WORSHIP LEADE, IM A YOUTH PASTO and IM A SON OF GOD.
it really matters on what is the goal kung bakit ka nag pa tattoo. and kung anu ang nasa tattoo....
tattoo's are images. images is what are you portraying to.
pano tayo makakapag reach out kung ganyan tayo diba.. we should break the boarder but make the line....
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on September 17, 2014, 11:10:47 AM
thing is every one of us has a different personality..different upbringing..different background..different mindset...if one likes to get a tattoo..marahil for coolness purposes or whatever reason..by all means let him enjoy it...
parang kung lion ka..gusto mo maging vegtarian..so be it! no need t judge or impose Laws or whatever restrictions as long as he doesnt harm any lion..all is good..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: jemp on September 17, 2014, 11:44:38 AM
thing is every one of us has a different personality..different upbringing..different background..different mindset...if one likes to get a tattoo..marahil for coolness purposes or whatever reason..by all means let him enjoy it...
parang kung lion ka..gusto mo maging vegtarian..so be it! no need t judge or impose Laws or whatever restrictions as long as he doesnt harm any lion..all is good..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: keyots.r on September 17, 2014, 05:09:31 PM
1 Corinthians 8:9
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on September 17, 2014, 11:30:29 PM
So the TS was asking what we think of worship members with ink.. If the answer to the your first question is yes (meaning, as what the TS stated na binatikos iyung friend niya), then in your second statement it may be taken then that the inked musician did sin, because he offended someone else in their congregation..
Ahah, and this is a subtopic of "The Music Forums"..
offending someone is a sin? yup pwede, pero if someone is offended by your personal preference and personal decisions in life that doesn't harm others, those who were offended should have no reasons to be offended they don't own the person, wala silang right para pakiilamanan ang buhay ng isang tao. as i said before in the beginning at the book of Genesis.. we are created to dominate the Earth, not to dominate people... to represent His Kingdom not our denominations and religion yet religious organizations love to the control the people...
I'm just sharing what I learned if you don't agree with it, i have no problems with it... :) pero sana makita natin na kasalanan rin ang manghusga ng kapwa nya..lalo na pag wala sa lugar :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: nicoyow on September 18, 2014, 12:47:37 AM
Yes, I agree na mali manghusga sa kapuwa sa maling paraan.. I grimace if I try to imagine the batikos your friend got.. Why? Well, if what you told us is true as you said it, that pati length ng strap mo was even questioned? Oh my.. Buti pa nga you try to find some other congregation that better show the true Kingdom of God..
What I'm trying to point out is, the general statement na mali manghusga ng tao sa kanilang preferences.. That sort of "liberating idea" may just be a trading off of one erroneous belief to another erroneous belief..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: honasito on September 23, 2014, 03:37:48 PM
(WWJD) what would Jesus do?
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: lawliet on September 29, 2014, 06:40:41 PM
In fairness, ito nalang ang di ko "majustify" Scripturally ;D regarding sa mga Non-Essential issues personally.
Kasi balak ko dati palagay noon ng tatoo ng isang Serpent tapos sa ilalim may Bible verse na Matthew 10:16 sa Deltoids ko so nagresearch and pinagaralan ko muna hehe.
Pero siguro yung mga may tatoo na tapos di na nila mapaBura, wala na tayo magagawa don we accept them, not unless we financially help them do it if they want to. Mahal ata pabura ng tatoo. :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: qroon on September 30, 2014, 06:46:33 AM
Eto yung ipanayo sa akin ng isang kaibigan/kapatid. Hindi naman kasi lahat ay enlightened or strong ang faith. So be careful na rin. In this context, kung sa tingin mo'y ika nga ay ikatitisod ng isang kapatid ang iyong gagawin, pag-isipan munang mabuti.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ejecruz on September 30, 2014, 05:46:34 PM
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: masterjeremiah14 on October 04, 2014, 12:53:44 PM
mas marami akong nakikitang judgmental sa loob ng church kaysa judgmental na may tattoo.,,. yan ang dahilan kaya ang dami daming church ang ng didivide,.. kase hindi mo matangap ang style nila and vice versa,.. don't judge the book LALO NA if you are not a judge,..
“The church is not a place where perfect people gather to say perfect things, or have perfect thoughts, or have perfect feelings. The Church is a place where imperfect people gather to provide encouragement, support, and service to each other as we press on in our journey to return to our Heavenly Father.”
― Joseph B. Wirthlin
so if ng pa tattoo tayo,.. pananagutan "natin" yun sa LORD at hindi ng iba,..,..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: HappyCoolers on October 04, 2014, 05:02:55 PM
mas marami akong nakikitang judgmental sa loob ng church kaysa judgmental na may tattoo.,,. yan ang dahilan kaya ang dami daming church ang ng didivide,.. kase hindi mo matangap ang style nila and vice versa,.. don't judge the book LALO NA if you are not a judge,..
“The church is not a place where perfect people gather to say perfect things, or have perfect thoughts, or have perfect feelings. The Church is a place where imperfect people gather to provide encouragement, support, and service to each other as we press on in our journey to return to our Heavenly Father.”
― Joseph B. Wirthlin
so if ng pa tattoo tayo,.. pananagutan "natin" yun sa LORD at hindi ng iba,..,..
Agree! :-D
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: norvin_mangunay on October 08, 2014, 02:03:09 AM
This thread made me research a bit about what the Bible has to say with regards to tattoos. Be it the Old or New Testament, it's quite clear ;)
This thread made me research a bit about what the Bible has to say with regards to tattoos. Be it the Old or New Testament, it's quite clear ;)
The discussion went to: - is anyone in a position to judge? - should I be concerned with what others think of me? - is it really that 'clear' in the Bible? - church that seeks to impose decision to members is in simplest term: a control machine - a gross misunderstanding of the Kingdom of God.
So the links you posted will inevitably get a rationalization, and may ultimately boil down to "preference." Continue building up your 'case' instead from the Word, and be prepared to counsel anyone, who trusts your counsel, asks you that question.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: norvin_mangunay on October 08, 2014, 01:32:26 PM
Yes we can basically rationalize with everything in this world- what you seek is what you will find. It depends on how we were brought up, the society we live in etc. But at times, things like this tend to be so simple. My understanding of the TS's question is if it's ok for a Worship team member to have a tattoo and my opinion is merely based on the Word. I don't judge people ( I don't have the right to and the time also.) I aim to relentlessly live a normal life, without complicating matters like judging people. I have several close friends who are inked and it don't mean a thing to me. I still cherish our friendship. I definitely don't intend to counsel anyone. Its just my opinion which I believe I have the liberty upon. ;) God bless us.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: esb2290 on October 14, 2014, 05:27:14 PM
In my opinion, bakit ka magpapa-tatoo? If your motive is to win this generation it's not enough reason to get a tattoo. There's a lot of ways to win the generation today.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on October 15, 2014, 08:53:37 AM
Medyo OT but somewhat related: What about girls' earrings? I don't know about the current generation of young people but AFAIK in my generation piercings for earrings are usually made in early childhood, sometimes even just past infancy when girls are not able to decide these things or themselves. If the basis is scripture, then there should not be any distinction from the bodily harm done by piercing and tattooing.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on October 15, 2014, 01:47:14 PM
Medyo OT but somewhat related: What about girls' earrings? I don't know about the current generation of young people but AFAIK in my generation piercings for earrings are usually made in early childhood, sometimes even just past infancy when girls are not able to decide these things or themselves. If the basis is scripture, then there should not be any distinction from the bodily harm done by piercing and tattooing.
some Christians criticized males for having piercings, they said that in the Bible only slaves would get piercings,
Deuteronomy 15:17 Then you shall take an awl, and put it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your slave forever. And to your female slave you shall do the same.
people use this verse without thinking that the book of Deuteronomy is exclusively for the Jews, because they are the chosen nation, so God sets up laws for that country for them to follow which some of it is not necessary for us to follow because we are Gentiles and we are not Jews, we are justified by Grace not by the Law....
if we would follow the Jews tradition then we should not eat some meats, or have the Church service on sunday but on saturday, and lot's of other stuffs..
Let's not spiritualized things too much.. the Earth is the Lord's and everything on it.. :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on October 15, 2014, 02:23:48 PM
some Christians criticized males for having piercings, they said that in the Bible only slaves would get piercings,
Deuteronomy 15:17 Then you shall take an awl, and put it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your slave forever. And to your female slave you shall do the same.
people use this verse without thinking that the book of Deuteronomy is exclusively for the Jews, because they are the chosen nation, so God sets up laws for that country for them to follow which some of it is not necessary for us to follow because we are Gentiles and we are not Jews, we are justified by Grace not by the Law....
if we would follow the Jews tradition then we should not eat some meats, or have the Church service on sunday but on saturday, and lot's of other stuffs..
Let's not spiritualized things too much.. the Earth is the Lord's and everything on it.. :)
I agree with this, and while only implicit, the NT does override quite a number of major Jewish laws and traditions Jesus deems to be out of the spirit of the law.
I just wanted to see if anyone would make an exception for female ear piercings, and that would show me that either that person's interpretation of the law is flawed, that opinion supersedes scripture, or the person failed to classify ear piercings similar to a tattoo (as defined in the scripture). Given that scripture is the basis, thus, if someone says female ear piercings are okay, then they should be okay with tattoos. Conversely, those who are not okay with tattoos should also be equally opposed to female ear piercings. Otherwise, I can safely say that one who refers to scripture and is against tattoos (taboo in today's society) but not female ear piercings (not taboo in today's society) is speaking with opinion and not actually based on scripture.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: IncX on October 15, 2014, 05:45:32 PM
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.
and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.
you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on October 15, 2014, 05:55:09 PM
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.
and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.
you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.
not too dissimilar from business/military etiquette. churches have their norms, and of course tattoos are one of the major taboos. if you believe it's alright to be inked, that's fine. but like sir IncX said, don't show it in church. the church is an organization with norms just like the coporate world or the military, all whom prefer that tattoos be invisible. tattoos in church is as much a social issue as it is an issue of religion.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on October 15, 2014, 06:49:13 PM
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.
and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.
you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.
yup tama, i don't think it will be accepted in the church.. some groups might accept it, but to generalize it that all church universally should accept it.. not gonna happen, some people still locked up to traditions and some beliefs.. different organization have different leaders with different experiences and different theological opinions.. if a person is condemned or criticized harshly because of his/her tattoos and body piercings, etc. by a denomination or church better find a new home church, but the most polite thing to do, is magpaalam ng maayos and formal.. talk to your head leader of the congregation and ask for his/her blessing by this you won't be regarded as a rebel..some might still label you as a rebel, but still this is the right thing to do instead of not showing up and not letting them know about it.. two options lang naman is whether magpasakop or to leave..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: norvin_mangunay on October 16, 2014, 09:08:59 AM
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.
and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.
you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.
+1 Precisely. You can come up with any reason you want but I belelieve that the main point is it doesn't fit worshippers. If there's something to debate about being acceptable or not... it's quite obvious that it has its flaws, thus, being unacceptable to the church.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on October 17, 2014, 12:55:49 PM
Medyo OT but somewhat related: What about girls' earrings? I don't know about the current generation of young people but AFAIK in my generation piercings for earrings are usually made in early childhood, sometimes even just past infancy when girls are not able to decide these things or themselves. If the basis is scripture, then there should not be any distinction from the bodily harm done by piercing and tattooing.
I agree with this, and while only implicit, the NT does override quite a number of major Jewish laws and traditions Jesus deems to be out of the spirit of the law.
I just wanted to see if anyone would make an exception for female ear piercings, and that would show me that either that person's interpretation of the law is flawed, that opinion supersedes scripture, or the person failed to classify ear piercings similar to a tattoo (as defined in the scripture). Given that scripture is the basis, thus, if someone says female ear piercings are okay, then they should be okay with tattoos. Conversely, those who are not okay with tattoos should also be equally opposed to female ear piercings. Otherwise, I can safely say that one who refers to scripture and is against tattoos (taboo in today's society) but not female ear piercings (not taboo in today's society) is speaking with opinion and not actually based on scripture.
There are those who are not familiar with the law, so do care to enlighten.. So like, what law or scripture are you talking about? What scripture puts "bodily harm" and "piercing" and "tattoo" in a single thought that it is unlawful? Or what scripture are you basing the thought that tattoos and body adornments (you said earrings) are both put in a context that it is unlawful? The Deut 15:17 ron posted, if how he witnessed used as pambatikos to someone who pierced, it's way out of context, but it's not even entirely about piercing for adornment..
Then the "taboo" thing.. So because something is "taboo" right now that is not directly stated as "taboo" in the old society, means that everything considered taboo for a Christian nowadays is based on opinion, not on scripture? Extending then the thought, though it stretching too far -- because Meth is a taboo now because of the modern anti-dangerous drug act, if I don't take it 'for the sake of Christ,' I'm basing it on opinion and not on scripture? It's far fetched, but the taboo argument some one might take too far, like what I exampled.
You may be setting up a totally unrelated thing you can stab as unreasonable to consider something else, the main topic (tattoos and its acceptability in the setting the TS asked) as unreasonable..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on October 17, 2014, 01:57:20 PM
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.
and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.
you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.
good point...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on October 17, 2014, 02:07:27 PM
There are those who are not familiar with the law, so do care to enlighten.. So like, what law or scripture are you talking about? What scripture puts "bodily harm" and "piercing" and "tattoo" in a single thought that it is unlawful? Or what scripture are you basing the thought that tattoos and body adornments (you said earrings) are both put in a context that it is unlawful? The Deut 15:17 ron posted, if how he witnessed used as pambatikos to someone who pierced, it's way out of context, but it's not even entirely about piercing for adornment..
Then the "taboo" thing.. So because something is "taboo" right now that is not directly stated as "taboo" in the old society, means that everything considered taboo for a Christian nowadays is based on opinion, not on scripture? Extending then the thought, though it stretching too far -- because Meth is a taboo now because of the modern anti-dangerous drug act, if I don't take it 'for the sake of Christ,' I'm basing it on opinion and not on scripture? It's far fetched, but the taboo argument some one might take too far, like what I exampled.
You may be setting up a totally unrelated thing you can stab as unreasonable to consider something else, the main topic (tattoos and its acceptability in the setting the TS asked) as unreasonable..
1. Leviticus 19:28 is the oft mentioned scripture regarding tattoos. says, "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD." Now, taken as it is, this is a command that prohibits cutting AND markings because of the dead. Most people who quote this against tattoos also leave out the part where people do it for the dead. Therefore, if one can affirm the prohibition of markings without the consideration of the dead, then one can also affirm the prohibition of piercings without consideration of the dead. Thus, in this line of thought, one can find a prohibition for both piercings and tattoos in the same verse.
HOWEVER, I must state that by using the aforementioned line of thought, the verse is taken out of context (that being doing these things for the dead), and thus I was able to argue that one may have a flawed interpretation, one's opinion superseded the scripture (nitpicking the piercings and tattoos, and leaving the "for the dead" part out), or failing to classify piercings and tattoos as the same (as stated, both are done for the dead).
2. I don't think I ever insinuated that what is considered taboo now is entirely based on opinion and not scripture. It's pretty ill-thinking to say that all taboo is based entirely on opinion, because by definition, taboo is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing." As well, a custom is "a traditional and widely accepted way of behaving or doing something that is specific to a particular society, place, or time." And in turn, tradition is "the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way." Basically speaking, a taboo is always based on beliefs, whether from the scripture, which is the Christian religious tradition, or our own opinions shaped by the society we live in now. A taboo can be based entirely on scripture, both on scripture and opinion, or entirely on opinion, so I don't really know why I'm taking the flak on your second point if I actually agree with you anyway.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iyzburg on October 17, 2014, 03:29:45 PM
1. I hear you on the the Leviticus. Definitely, many do take it out of context, like a blanket prohibition of both ink and all sorts of cutting on the flesh. If I remember right, I think those were ritual practices of the pagan neighbors of the Jews in the Ancient Near East. But also, again, with what you say that opinion varies from reader to reader, I've read some argue that the 'for the dead' modifies/qualifies only the phrase "cuttings on your flesh".. Ergo, the 'for the dead' does not modify the phrase "do not make any markings.."
I'm just saying that what you argued on, your interpretation of that verse, was already argued against a lot of times. So then, it would go that if you charge them to have a sore misunderstanding or misapplication of the law, such charge will come biting back at you. So all of course is for the benefit of those who would take interest on this in this forum, and go search out for more answers..
2. I'm not flaking you, I'm very sorry for that. I'm just pointing to what you said na, because of the law:
anyone not agreeing with tattoos should also not agree with female earrings; or
anyone using the law to disagree with tats but not on earrings is not basing it on scripture but on flawed opinion that supersedes scripture
I just quipped the taboo 'analogy', which I described as 'stretching too far', to stress that the whole thing you said which I quoted stretches too far from the issue of earrings (your choice of example) with tattoos, with the subject of the topic (though you said it was OT but related), with the verse you chose to quote above, propriety in church, opinion reigning over scripture, etc.
IncX brought much of it back to where the discussion is all about, I guess.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on October 17, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
1. I hear you on the the Leviticus. Definitely, many do take it out of context, like a blanket prohibition of both ink and all sorts of cutting on the flesh. If I remember right, I think those were ritual practices of the pagan neighbors of the Jews in the Ancient Near East. But also, again, with what you say that opinion varies from reader to reader, I've read some argue that the 'for the dead' modifies/qualifies only the phrase "cuttings on your flesh".. Ergo, the 'for the dead' does not modify the phrase "do not make any markings.."
I'm just saying that what you argued on, your interpretation of that verse, was already argued against a lot of times. So then, it would go that if you charge them to have a sore misunderstanding or misapplication of the law, such charge will come biting back at you. So all of course is for the benefit of those who would take interest on this in this forum, and go search out for more answers..
2. I'm not flaking you, I'm very sorry for that. I'm just pointing to what you said na, because of the law:
anyone not agreeing with tattoos should also not agree with female earrings; or
anyone using the law to disagree with tats but not on earrings is not basing it on scripture but on flawed opinion that supersedes scripture
I just quipped the taboo 'analogy', which I described as 'stretching too far', to stress that the whole thing you said which I quoted stretches too far from the issue of earrings (your choice of example) with tattoos, with the subject of the topic (though you said it was OT but related), with the verse you chose to quote above, propriety in church, opinion reigning over scripture, etc.
IncX brought much of it back to where the discussion is all about, I guess.
Apologies sir, and points taken. Especially on point 1. If anything it is quite an example of what I was going against, which in a way drives the point as you point out the error. On the second point, I guess we both agree on that.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iamppej on October 23, 2014, 10:42:36 AM
I got a tattoo on my back and a sleeve tattoo.. but what it shows and portray is who am I and what I do.. on my sleeve tattoo there is music and mission and my favourite verse and my dad's favourite saying about faith.. and just to add my parents are pastors...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: u319183 on November 10, 2014, 05:34:34 PM
"Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." (1Corinthians 6:19-20)
NO DABATE!
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: sonicassault on November 10, 2014, 06:03:03 PM
"Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." (1Corinthians 6:19-20)
NO DABATE!
Yes debate. This verse is about Sexual Immorality. As such in 1Cor 6:
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
NEVER TAKE A VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT.
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: ron_rd57 on November 10, 2014, 06:40:12 PM
Yes debate. This verse is about Sexual Immorality. As such in 1Cor 6:
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
NEVER TAKE A VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT.
+1
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iamppej on November 11, 2014, 07:22:49 AM
"Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." (1Corinthians 6:19-20)
NO DABATE!
We are not debating here. hehehehe. But as I expected that We always use "the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit".. Let me tell you this.. Having tattoo is not a crime to God. He even chooses the dirtiest people living on earth. He doesn't look at your appearance cause if that's the case God will not accept me. And also do you know the youth pastor of planet shakers who has a lot of body tattoo's and also has a lot of piercing that is ministering on a prison? He was not allowed before to preach on the said prison because he looks like a criminal or an addict than the real prisoner's. But he proved that God is awesome. He turned that prison men into a worthy person and having a FAITH with what he believes.. So not every people who has a tattoo is not a "body of Christ". We should look to ourselves before we look unto others.. God Bless you bro/sis,
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: Garner on November 11, 2014, 11:23:23 AM
We are not debating here. hehehehe. But as I expected that We always use "the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit".. Let me tell you this.. Having tattoo is not a crime to God. He even chooses the dirtiest people living on earth. He doesn't look at your appearance cause if that's the case God will not accept me. And also do you know the youth pastor of planet shakers who has a lot of body tattoo's and also has a lot of piercing that is ministering on a prison? He was not allowed before to preach on the said prison because he looks like a criminal or an addict than the real prisoner's. But he proved that God is awesome. He turned that prison men into a worthy person and having a FAITH with what he believes.. So not every people who has a tattoo is not a "body of Christ". We should look to ourselves before we look unto others.. God Bless you bro/sis,
Totally agree, as long as we have an intimate relationship with God, that's the most important thing. It's not about how I look with tattoos or how they see me as a tattooed-worship member but it's about what I do to glorify him everyday, even if NOBODY's looking. "Who am I when nobody's looking?" For me, If I see a worship member with tattoos, I would think about "how would Jesus look at him?". :)
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iamppej on November 11, 2014, 12:08:58 PM
"Who am I when nobody's looking?" For me, If I see a worship member with tattoos, I would think about "how would Jesus look at him?". :)
that's the main point. "WHO AM I WHEN NOBODY IS LOOKING"? I have a lot of tattoo and a piercing. But what it signify and what I'm doing with my life? Do I still Glorify him or is it a rebellious act? just a simple question to ponder with.. hehehe... peace..
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: gandydancer123 on November 11, 2014, 12:14:21 PM
good stuff! good discussion..
cant believe it reached 6 pages..hahaha
get one if you really want one...its your body, if you feel good about it..just go... no need to think what other people will say or think of you..Y.O.L.O. I say! hehe..
.if you think too much and analyze too much..I suggest pagpaliban nalang...
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iamppej on November 11, 2014, 01:21:36 PM
get one if you really want one...its your body, if you feel good about it..just go... no need to think what other people will say or think of you..Y.O.L.O. I say! hehe..
.if you think too much and analyze too much..I suggest pagpaliban nalang...
+1
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: masterjeremiah14 on November 13, 2014, 06:02:05 PM
Yes debate. This verse is about Sexual Immorality. As such in 1Cor 6:
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
NEVER TAKE A VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT.
+1
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: norvin_mangunay on November 20, 2014, 01:17:54 AM
Title: Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
Post by: iamppej on November 20, 2014, 07:04:24 AM
Yes debate. This verse is about Sexual Immorality. As such in 1Cor 6:
Sexual Immorality
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
NEVER TAKE A VERSE OUT OF CONTEXT.
+1
YES debate!
imho-> non issue ang tattoo
actually dapat di rin to topic e kasi nga non issue ang tattoo,
ipunin nalang lahat ng judge-Mentals na worship members/leaders and pat their shoulders and tell them who your savior really is, it is not them you need to serve but God through the congregation.
check out Mike Turner of BATTERY i believe he's a minister.