Requesting oasgomez...

[skunkyfunk]

Hey man, I just wonder if it would be a good idea to do some metal tone shootout using any of your amps in the gigs, where all the bands will be playing metal.  Most of the gigs you've brought them to are more classic rock or blues.  HAve you tried skull-crushing metal?  I am interested in seeing a Bogner Uber vs. some guy with pedals + the club amp.  Or maybe the Herbert can do?

[oasgomez-is-banned]

I am not sure about that.  Most guys here in this country cannot plug straight into amps.  It will only defeat the purpose of having high gain amps if people use effects pedals and multi fx on the front end.  As you add more gain stages and devices it becomes more difficult to set up a sound specially on the VHT and to a certain extent on the Herbert because of the too many knobs to tweak e.g. the VHT has master, channel volume, channel gain, boost switch, plus the distortion pedal's level and gain knob and don't forget the electric guitar's volume.  On the other hand,  the uberschall's clean channel is designed to take distortion/overdrive pedals but combining pedals with the highly gained out channel just might not sound great specially if the pedals are the run of the mill mass production type.  If ever boost lang, because the Uberschall has the most gain of all amps I have tested.  Take note:  I am also excited to hear about the new Rivera K-Tre which is claimed to have the most gain of any tube amp to date.

[progressive_pilipinas]

ganun? mas maraming effects na dadaanan papuntang amp, less ang quality ng tunog? pano kung you really need those effects and still maintain that sound?

parang ang labo ng tanong ko,, gets niyo ba?

[oasgomez-is-banned]

Yes.  The more effects you have the more your signal degrades.  Thats why, I am myself am saving for a Rivera Headmeister which is a MIDI controlled 8 loop two amp switcher that takes out effects out of the signal chain.

In the case above, I was specific about distortion and overdrive pedals coming in front of a VHT.  It now just becomes difficult to tweak and get a good sound but not impossible.  For time based effects, I think you can use the effects loop at the back of the amp.  Of course kung marami rin time based effects sa loop, the signal will also degrade.  For some people naman, its acceptable.

[kaloyster]

i gotta agree with that. and i'm a big fan of oldies rock and blues as well. i'm not into them *kagag-kagag* metal thing. overdrive lang and i'm off riffing.

[progressive_pilipinas]

ganun? mas maraming effects na dadaanan papuntang amp, less ang quality ng tunog? pano kung you really need those effects and still maintain that sound?

parang ang labo ng tanong ko,, gets niyo ba?

madali lang yan, buy his $4100 amp. sigurado yan din ang suggestion ng mayabang na oasgomez na yan sa yo.

ahem... laro tayo..

jack en poy?

[stratman1]

I am not sure about that.  Most guys here in this country cannot plug straight into amps.  It will only defeat the purpose of having high gain amps if people use effects pedals and multi fx on the front end.

Oas, correct me if I'm wrong. I think Skunky was asking you to do a metal shoot-out using your Uber against some guy using their pedals going through their amp and not pedal going through your hi gain amp.

[markflo]

two words: keeley metal zone...

okay...so maybe that's three words....ano? may angal? ha? ha? heheheheheh....

[Ag3nt]

I am not sure about that.  Most guys here in this country cannot plug straight into amps.  It will only defeat the purpose of having high gain amps if people use effects pedals and multi fx on the front end.

Oas, correct me if I'm wrong. I think Skunky was asking you to do a metal shoot-out using your Uber against some guy using their pedals going through their amp and not pedal going through your hi gain amp.

para sa kanya, everyone is "wrong". un lang yon.

[stratman1]

two words: keeley metal zone...

okay...so maybe that's three words....ano? may angal? ha? ha? heheheheheh....

Saksak sa Pignose amp, sulit!!!! Hehehe

[stratman1]

para sa kanya, everyone is "wrong". un lang yon.

     

[sonnyrayvaughn]

Yes.  The more effects you have the more your signal degrades.  Thats why, I am myself am saving for a Rivera Headmeister which is a MIDI controlled 8 loop two amp switcher that takes out effects out of the signal chain.

In the case above, I was specific about distortion and overdrive pedals coming in front of a VHT.  It now just becomes difficult to tweak and get a good sound but not impossible.  For time based effects, I think you can use the effects loop at the back of the amp.  Of course kung marami rin time based effects sa loop, the signal will also degrade.  For some people naman, its acceptable.

namiss ko tong thread na to due to timezone differences, sayang!

anyway sir OAS, what can you say about yung rack-mounted effects tapos being controlled by bradley switch(or same types of) controllers. Think Vai or Petrucci's setup. will you be investing in these kinds of stuffs or talagang mag stick ka lang sa amps and the OD/distortion that goes with it.
meron din bang signal degradation sa ganitong setup?

[glassjaw_jc]

bradley claims no tone loss due to strategically placed buffers. and according to him, relays are better in tone applications than traditional switches.

[oasgomez-is-banned]

Stratman,

When you test these amps on a gig, you cannot tell the players not to use pedals.  I have tried.  They keep on asking for a clean channel and still use their pedals.  

So, if I would set up it up, I would channel switch between the Herbert's 3rd channel and Bogner Uberschall Lead Channel and VHT Lead Channel. And walang sinabi ang Keeley Modded MT2 diyan.  But thats just me... Something else might work for you.  Based on my experienced for really heavy heavy music the whole amp has to be designed from the ground up to produce that sound.  Pwedeng siguro isaksak ang pedal sa harapan ng fender pero talo pa rin sa isang amp na from the start designed to deliver heavy distortion.

[Ag3nt]

feeling expert na naman..

[kaloyster]

potek! puro nalang ba yang Herbert Bautista na yan?! ano bang silbi niyan? mas sikat ka ba kay Barbie Almalbis dahil meron ka nyan?! dyoskooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[abyssinianson]

right now, I am using a Digital Music Corp GCX rackmount selector to insert and remove my effects from my signal chain. I always loved the sound of a guitar straight into an amp but since I love effects too, there always had to be a trade off since not all of my effects are true bypass. As such, I got a loop switcher which works a lot like the Bradshaw units and now the only thing I have to push are the pedal buttons on my Ground Control Pro and the Fulltone wah next to it.

Now, I love my pedals and I love overdriven tone as much as I  love the "kagga kagga" metal thing. Thats me. What people need to realize is that a "clean" channel -  a true clean channel - is exactly that - clean - you have anything ON in between. Moreover, having something that isn't true bypass is inevitably going to suck some of your tone down. This may be bad OR it may be good as in the case of Mike Einziger of Incubus who purposefully runs his effects in a specific way knowing fully well what the pedals are doing to his sound. This guy does not run a switching unit which is why he has a 6 foot pedal board split into two halves...ah, the great thing about having a guitar tech:) But I digress...

It depends what you want out of your amps and this applies to how you want to sound with or without the use of pedals.

[stratman1]

right now, I am using a Digital Music Corp GCX rackmount selector to insert and remove my effects from my signal chain. I always loved the sound of a guitar straight into an amp but since I love effects too, there always had to be a trade off since not all of my effects are true bypass. As such, I got a loop switcher which works a lot like the Bradshaw units and now the only thing I have to push are the pedal buttons on my Ground Control Pro and the Fulltone wah next to it.

Now, I love my pedals and I love overdriven tone as much as I  love the "kagga kagga" metal thing. Thats me. What people need to realize is that a "clean" channel -  a true clean channel - is exactly that - clean - you have anything ON in between. Moreover, having something that isn't true bypass is inevitably going to suck some of your tone down. This may be bad OR it may be good as in the case of Mike Einziger of Incubus who purposefully runs his effects in a specific way knowing fully well what the pedals are doing to his sound. This guy does not run a switching unit which is why he has a 6 foot pedal board split into two halves...ah, the great thing about having a guitar tech:) But I digress...

It depends what you want out of your amps and this applies to how you want to sound with or without the use of pedals.

Boss Aby... yong mga effects nyo... pedal ba yon? Anong amp at pedal setup nyo? Gusto ko sanang kunin yang GCX at GROUND CONTROL PRO pero nag settle nalang ako sa AXCESS CFX4. Pede bang i control ng GCX ang single pedals in conjuction with the amp head channel switching ala MIDI control?

[Kulas]

sakin lang ah, if you're comfortable with your setup and are happy with the sound that you're hearing from your amp, that would be enough for me. no need to worry about the nitty-gritty kung satisfied ka naman na sa tone mo eh.

[kaloyster]

all hail kulas!

[abyssinianson]

kulas is right, depende sa anong gusto mo sa inyong setup. sa bagay, everyone has a different "voice" in their head, di ba?

Strat, yeah, I have pedal effects - several actually in my chain - but since I ended up doing the tapdance thing I figured there had to be a better way of doing things without sacrificing the tone being sucked out of my lengthy pedal chain. I was browsing the local stores and ended up picking the GCX and the ground control units at separate stores since the sales people were willing to let the units go cheap saying people weren't into MIDI these days.

What the GCX basically does is a lot like the Axcess. Its a true bypass looper that inserts and takes out specific pedals in your chain depending on how you have your "sounds" set up. You can also rout the effects to specific amps like if you prefer leads on a Marshall and cleans on a Fender or Vox. I have different patches in my rack that uses different pedals and splits that signal depending on what amp I have the pedals routed through. The GCX is setup with the following patches accessible on the Ground Control:

-overdrive rhythm (basic blues tone)
-overdrive lead
-clean (chorus or univibe for leslie effect)
-clean (delay 1)
-clean (flange or phaser)
-rhythm crunch

the only things in front of my are the ground control pro and a fulltone clyde wah.

[sonnyrayvaughn]

thanks sa info preng Abyss... sensya na at eng eng ako sa midi at rackmounted effects...

i am assuming me looper ka where you plug in all your effects, mapa rackmount man or analog pedals... then you assign each effect to a pedal/switch in your pedalboard...  e di ibig sabihin yung mga pedals mo in the background are all engaged(laging naka-on)? tama ba?

[abyssinianson]

bingo SRV, pero because they are running through a looper...they don't get inserted into the signal chain between the guitar and amp until i need them to be. even then, the signal only includes pedals for that specific preset. oks lang sa info - nag research ako nitong mga router pero i eventually discovered in the end na similar sila sa na mag operate sa mga Siemens Controllers na ginamit ko sa EE back in the day:) after that, everything was easier to understand. i just needed more george L cables than i had stashed away. routing pedal effects takes up a lot of cables and connectors:(

[sonnyrayvaughn]

bingo SRV, pero because they are running through a looper...they don't get inserted into the signal chain between the guitar and amp until i need them to be. even then, the signal only includes pedals for that specific preset.

Thanks! got it! naintindihan ko rin sa wakas .. hehe
pero them switches and loopers are quite pricey, i guess ill be stuck with tap dancing for quite some time.

[abyssinianson]

bingo SRV, pero because they are running through a looper...they don't get inserted into the signal chain between the guitar and amp until i need them to be. even then, the signal only includes pedals for that specific preset.

Thanks! got it! naintindihan ko rin sa wakas .. hehe
pero them switches and loopers are quite pricey, i guess ill be stuck with tap dancing for quite some time.

tap dancing is ok - to a point. the project i am working on now has a lot of effects changes that I can't pull off easily live because of the studio edits I did in the studio..so its really my fault. i COULD use a trigger and sampler pero that would be more gear to put in a rack:(