Counterfeit Cymbals and other drum stuff?

[vdonati_fan]

counterfeiting is very rumpant these days...for the benefit of all the drummers here i just like to ask if there's a possibility that this can happen to  in the cymbal market right now like Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste and ofcourse the ever popular Stagg.

there are ways to know if what you have is a counterfeit...for cymbals, they say that the laser engraved logo with the serial number is an authentication but with the technology today...that's very easy to replicate.

i may sound stupid or nonsense to others but i want to know how to counter a counterfeit...not only with cymbals but with the other instruments or equipment we have.

[plep]

Para sa akin malabo to... hirap ireplicate nung bronze kasi. Madali lang naman mapansin kung bronze ba talaga yung cymbal o hindi. Tsaka syempre, wag mo bilhin kung pangit yung tunog, branded man o counterfeit - at dahil malamang hindi naman cymbalsmith yung counterfeiter, panget nga yung tunog ng ginawa niya.

Kung kriminal man ako, di ko susubukan gumawa ng pekeng cymbals... masyadong malaking initial investment tsaka sobrang matrabaho e.

[vdonati_fan]

Para sa akin malabo to... hirap ireplicate nung bronze kasi. Madali lang naman mapansin kung bronze ba talaga yung cymbal o hindi. Tsaka syempre, wag mo bilhin kung pangit yung tunog, branded man o counterfeit - at dahil malamang hindi naman cymbalsmith yung counterfeiter, panget nga yung tunog ng ginawa niya.

i've tought of that too pre...kaso, one time nasa raon ako...nakakita ako ng 22" Zildjian K Custom Ride at ang presyo is nasa Php20k lang at may discount pa daw. i tried to inspect the cymbal, napansin ko yung logo of the K and Zildjian would not pass quality inspection. in terms of tunog, ndi ko na testing kasi nakatago sa plastic...

i think, in terms of chemical composition...pwede dayain yun. like instead na 80% gagawing 60%, para makatipid sila..something to that effect. but ofcourse the sound would be compromised. how about mga drumheads?

siguro nga, this is yet to happen...

[daemonite]

pansin ko naman madalas sa sticks to nangyayari. there were several pairs i've bought na zildjian stick sa manila ( i won't name where na lang) yung quality na lang ng grains ng sticks mali na. tapos yung logo para pang niliquid paper lang. and to think binebenta sya ng 400-600 parang orig price ng zildjian. so simula noon, bili na lang ako ng mga lazer sticks or yung tig 100+. tapos pabili na lang ako abroad ng mga originals hehee....

[IncX]

i guess mahirap talaga mag pirate ng cymbal since if madali lang to, sana mas maayos ang tunog at aesthetics ng low end cymbal makers like lazer. wala pa ako nakitang attractive na lazer cymbal assuming na itapat mo sya sa kahit entry level na sabian B8 cymbals.

i noticed na nahihirapan gumawa ng matinong sustain ang mga low end cymbal makers, so i guess isang criteria ng pag choose is sustain.

as for pagdaya ng mineral composition... masyadong mataas ata talaga ang kailangan nilang capital para gawing 60% and previously 80% na bronze (or whatever other metal) ... so they'll end up selling their "imitations" expensive pa rin.

im glad ganito ang state sa cymbals, unlike sa guitars na sobrang dali dumaya ng strat at jazz basses.

[royalletones]

counterfeiting is very rumpant these days...for the benefit of all the drummers here i just like to ask if there's a possibility that this can happen to  in the cymbal market right now like Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste and ofcourse the ever popular Stagg.

there are ways to know if what you have is a counterfeit...for cymbals, they say that the laser engraved logo with the serial number is an authentication but with the technology today...that's very easy to replicate.

i may sound stupid or nonsense to others but i want to know how to counter a counterfeit...not only with cymbals but with the other instruments or equipment we have.

baka naman 'to yung mga mga sub-standard ng zildjians. like levis pants pag may damage, binebenta ng mura. malay mo yung logo talaga ang palpak don kaya binebenta sa ganung price... but still we don't know wha's the real zildjians cymbals

[plep]

mag-iiba itsura nun kung dayain yung bakal... isipin mo pinagkaiba ng itsura ng b20 (mga cast cymbal tulad ng a, k, z, aa, hh, etc) tsaka mga b8 (2002, alpha, b8, b8 pro)... kahit yung bakal mismo iba yung kulay e. mas brownish ang b20, reddish ang b8... tsaka brass naman eh yellowish. tsaka di naman ata tatalab sa paggawa ng alloy yung sapilitan lang ihalo yung mga bakal.

tsaka subukan mo yung tunog... malinis at buo ang tunog ng b20, matinis ang b8, may pagka-yero ang brass. maririnig mo naman kung quality instrument ba yung bibilhin mo o hindi e. kung di ka payagan subukan yung tunog, dun ka na magduda.

[vdonati_fan]

that's good to hear nga kung magkakaroon ang mga counterfeiters ng hard time to come up with a fake cymbal...or this is not feasible for them...atleast for now, at ease tayo...

pansin ko naman madalas sa sticks to nangyayari. there were several pairs i've bought na zildjian stick sa manila ( i won't name where na lang) yung quality na lang ng grains ng sticks mali na. tapos yung logo para pang niliquid paper lang. and to think binebenta sya ng 400-600 parang orig price ng zildjian. so simula noon, bili na lang ako ng mga lazer sticks or yung tig 100+. tapos pabili na lang ako abroad ng mga originals hehee....

tingin ko nga mas madaling dayain ito, since wood is very easy to get. they could just say na maple, oak ang wood nya pero mas mahinang klase pala..i had the same experience, 5A Zildjian na black. i was able to use it only for 3 times...bali agad nung pang 3rd use ko...ndi pa ako nabalian ng stick ever...first time ko yun. kaya ngayon Lazer, Stagg stick na lang ang ginagamit ko...what's the difference?

[plep]

ang major difference naman sa sticks eh kung pano nila dinry yung wood para tumigas. kailangan kasi controlled yung moisture content ng wood para pwede siyang gamiting pampalo. aside from the type of wood used (oak and hickory yung best, medyo malambot ang maple e), sa kiln drying nung kahoy talaga nagkakalamangan ang mga brand. mataas ang control ng mga major companies tulad ng zildjian, vic firth, vater, pro mark, etc sa drying process nila, hindi lang bara-barang sinaksak sa loob ng oven yung mga kahoy.

baka nangyari sa yo tsong eh either hindi naman pala hickory yung stick, or masyado overdone yung drying niya kaya onting palo lang nabali na.

[black_panther]

i think it would be better and safer if you'll buy from a reputable dealer..someone you can trust..

[plep]

i think it would be better and safer if you'll buy from a reputable dealer..someone you can trust..

kawawa naman ang raon... 

[vdonati_fan]

i think it would be better and safer if you'll buy from a reputable dealer..someone you can trust..

well, i did...

[daemonite]

Me too.... Imagine, lahat ng nabili kong stick low quality sa store na yun samantalang pareho lang ang mga pinapadalang sticks sa akin which turns out to be much more durable. But the stick i liked the most kahit na lq is the zildjian 7a antivibe ko na wasak na rin ngayon....

[sjon014]

Me too.... Imagine, lahat ng nabili kong stick low quality sa store na yun samantalang pareho lang ang mga pinapadalang sticks sa akin which turns out to be much more durable. But the stick i liked the most kahit na lq is the zildjian 7a antivibe ko na wasak na rin ngayon....

I have to agree. The 7A Anti-vibe is among one of the best sticks I've used when it comes to feel. It lasted a few months, pero I know that hardcore and metal isn't the best genre for a 7A. Still, I enjoyed the stick while it lasted.

On topic, we're lucky cymbals are hard to replicate. Sticks, madaling ipeke yan. Drumsets, maybe. (See the china Premieres in raon? They didn't even get the spelling right. ) But I guess we can rest assured that the money we spend on our metals won't go to waste. Sana forever tayong walang mararanasang cries of pain after finding out the 16,000-peso Zildjian K ride was made of gold-plated tanso.