Understanding odd timings

[peeves24]

pano nyo nalalaman kung ano yung time sig ng isang kanta?

weird ako e. di ko rin alam kung pano ginagawa nung iba. pero binabase ko sa guitars at bass para makuha yung time signature. hinahanap ko yung common na bagsakan, kung quarters, 8ths or 16ths. tapos papakinggan ko yung repeating chord progression tapos bilang na.

so kung narinig ko na 8th notes yung tipa nung guitars tapos nabiling ko na 7x sya magtipa per chord e di 7/8

minsan naman obvious sa drums lalo kung gamit nya yung hihat or ride to keep time. dun pa lang malalaman mo agad kung quarters, 8ths o 16ths ang beat. tapos bilang ka na lang dun sa bass at snare hanggang sa may mareach ka na odd part or syncopated feel tapos biglang uulit.

medyo tricky sa simula ang pag figure out lalo na kung di mo alam ang quarters, 8ths at 16ths. aral ka muna magbasa ng notes and take time to practice it para mas mabilis mong marecognize yung time signatures

isa pang paraan to practice figuring out time sigs, pakinggan mo yung sample songs na binigay ni drumster tapos bilangin mo. tingnan mo kung akma yung nabilang mo sa indicated time sigs

[bugoy_king]

pano nyo nalalaman kung ano yung time sig ng isang kanta?

Kailangan mo muna hanapin yung downbeat, or yung "1" ng bar. From downbeat to downbeat, bilang ka kung ilang quarter notes, eighth notes, or sixteenth notes ang isang bar (siyempre mas mahirap bilangin pag 16th notes, mabilis kasi).

[peeves24]

isa pa pala, check nyo yung band na don caballero sa myspace (thanks pmack). subukan nyo figure out yung time sigs nung mga songs.

its a real challenge, pabago bago e. multiple time sigs per song

[Gep]

Aba pinag-uusapan namin to ni Pmack din kahapon ha.

Tapos ito pa na kakaiba ang timing talaga:

http://www.myspace.com/hellaband

[phfreq]

Aba pinag-uusapan namin to ni Pmack din kahapon ha.

Tapos ito pa na kakaiba ang timing talaga:

http://www.myspace.com/hellaband

... if you like something where zach hill plays drums and has vocals -- check out "the ladies" -- it's a duo with rob crow of pinback (also of physics fame)

http://www.temporaryresidence.com/bands/theladies.php

has a sampler song in that page ...

[Gep]

Kakadownload ko lang ng bagong album ng Hella kahapon, yung "There's no 666 in Outer Space".

Kumakanta na sila sa mga bagong tracks. 

phfreq, ikaw ba si Jerome ng Rampqueen?

[phfreq]

Kakadownload ko lang ng bagong album ng Hella kahapon, yung "There's no 666 in Outer Space".

Kumakanta na sila sa mga bagong tracks. 

phfreq, ikaw ba si Jerome ng Rampqueen?

hindi ko pa napapakinggan ung bago pero malamang nga may vocals na kasi I think hella is now a four piece

ay, hindi po ako si Jerome ng Rampqueen ... 

[phfreq]

Ah sayang, itatanong ko pa naman kung paano ginagawa yung 16s sa hats habang gumagawa ng 4/4 groove sa ride, snare at bass.

Five-piece na ang Hella. Click mo to para madownload mo ang bagong album nila: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=23O1W9YL 

he he he .. newbie lang po ako kaya hindi ko masasagot yang tanong sa drums pero si johnny rabb, nakikita ko ginagawa nya alternate tip and butt ng stick ang pumapalo sa hihats (stick tip hitting the farther end of the top hat and the stick butt hitting the closer end of the top hats) para makagawa pa rin sya ng groove sa ibang drums...

meron din akong nakita na slap stick (hindi ko lang ulit mahanap ung link ngayon). basically ung slapstick ay drum stick na may parang naka-attach (via rubber or something) na short piece of wood na same diameter din nung handle. Parang nag-fa-flap sya. So kapag ginamit dun sa hihats, ang motion is up and down, tatamaan mo yung sa up stroke nung hands, tatamaan mo yung bottom hats, sa downstroke nung hands, tatamaan mo ung top hats... tignan ko kung mahanap ko ulit mamaya ... baka malabo ung pagkaka-explain ko eh

hindi ko din alam kung makukuha nyan ung sound na gusto mong makuha...

ha ha ha.. 5pc na pala... astig ung mga albums ng hella. kakatawa pa ung mga covers... meron ako nung hold your horse is, b$#$% aint s$$# but good people, and church gone wild/chirpin hard

[Gep]

Ah, kasi dati, napanood ko Rampqueen, tinutugtog nila yung kanta nilang "Blank", tapos isang end lang ng stick ang gamit niya.

[phfreq]

Ah, kasi dati, napanood ko Rampqueen, tinutugtog nila yung kanta nilang "Blank", tapos isang end lang ng stick ang gamit niya.

he he he... sana mahanap natin si jerome ng rampqueen para sya na mismo magsabi

[rasta_gopz]

Sir sana makatulong to jaz check this website daming lessons d2 may tabs and midi for u to listen on the beat

3/4

http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Intermediate&SubCategory=Odd%20Time%20Signatures&LessonID=Intermediate11

5/4

http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Intermediate&SubCategory=Odd%20Time%20Signatures&LessonID=Intermediate12

6/4

http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Intermediate&SubCategory=Odd%20Time%20Signatures&LessonID=Intermediate24

[jpmb]

nice link brother...cheers

[inigo]

Soundgarden - Outshined (7/4), Rusty Cage (ending part in 19/4, subdivided into 3-3-5-3-5), New Damage (almost the whole song runs in 9/4), Spoonman (7/4), My Wave (intro riff in 5/4),

Thing about Matt Cameron is, he doesn't count mathematically. He just follows how the guitar riff goes, and the result is some odd things that sound real cool. I think this is a good approach to drumming odd times if you don't like to think about all that math. It might also make you more sensitive to what the other guys in the band are doing... this way, your band's sounds tighter.

Another way to think about it is how Indian perc players interpret a percussive phrase. They just determine a phrase semantically, or through words.... say, "DUBEMDARABADOPODOP-BOPBOPBOP".... and base a percussive loop from that, without really thinking about counting measures and stuff. They just have to be conscious of the overall feel of the "phrase" and where the rest of the band is in it, too.

[drumster]

Soundgarden - Outshined (7/4), Rusty Cage (ending part in 19/4, subdivided into 3-3-5-3-5), New Damage (almost the whole song runs in 9/4), Spoonman (7/4), My Wave (intro riff in 5/4),

Thing about Matt Cameron is, he doesn't count mathematically. He just follows how the guitar riff goes, and the result is some odd things that sound real cool. I think this is a good approach to drumming odd times if you don't like to think about all that math. It might also make you more sensitive to what the other guys in the band are doing... this way, your band's sounds tighter.

Yes you're right about that, bro inigo.  That's one cool thing about Soundgarden.  Their music still grooves and flows even if it's in odd time.  Last night, after reviewing this thread, I looked for my old MD issue with Matt Cameron's interview.  That's their actual approach with their music.  They don't play odd-time stuff just for technique's sake.  They make sure that it still feels good.  And it also helped that Matt can play a little guitar and bass, so he has a better understanding on how to make the music tighter.

[marko21]

pag tumugtog ka ng 3/4 at 3/8, ano yung pinagkaiba nila?

[Diadem]

good example also is virgil donati mga peeps..

[drumster]

pag tumugtog ka ng 3/4 at 3/8, ano yung pinagkaiba nila?

3/4 time signature is counted in respect to quarter notes (hence, 4 as the denominator).  3/8 time signature is counted in respect to eighth notes (hence, 8 as the denominator).

So, 3/4 is counted like...  1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a...

While 3/8 goes...  1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

If it's 3/16, how would that go?  You can figure it out...   

How you understood my explanation.


For me, being the drummer in a timekeeping sense, I pay more attention to the time signature's numerator, which represents the number of counts in a measure.

[marko21]

3/16 - 1 2 3 1 2 3

tama ba?

[drumster]

Yes marko21, that's right.  It's in respect to sixteenth notes.  By the way, my examples above, we are assuming that the music is running at a similar tempo.

I hope you understand my explanations.  There are some concepts which are quite hard to explain through online forums. 

[daemonite]

Yes marko21, that's right.  It's in respect to sixteenth notes.  By the way, my examples above, we are assuming that the music is running at a similar tempo.

I hope you understand my explanations.  There are some concepts which are quite hard to explain through online forums. 

yup, it's so hard to encrypt it into sound. ibang-iba talaga pag naririnig mo and i-translate mo sa notes....

[drummer_boy17]

diba sir knwri kng 16/16 yun notes mo.. pwd mo rin siyang gwng 5/4+5/4+4/4+2/4=16/16?...

[drumster]

That's correct, drummer_boy17.  The time signatures that you noted, is that song which has that kind of subdivision?  Sounds like one of those progressive rock/fusion tracks.

[marko21]

ano pong tawag dyan?

[Bammbamm]

Kelangan magaling ka sa mathematics kung gusto mo mag aral ng odd time joke ni Portnoy



....iniisip ko ngayon kung paano ko mag drums habang may hawak na calculator, bwaaahahahaha!