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The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 11:19:48 AM
Title: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 11:19:48 AM
Customer: Magpapagawa sana po ako ng Dumble amp clone... Amp Builder: Talaga sir? Bakit po? Customer: Marami kasi nagsasabi maganda siya eh. Amp Builder: Nakagamit o nakarinig ka na ba ng Dumble o Dumble Clone? Customer: Hindi pa po eh. Amp Builder: Hindi kita puwede gawan. Kasi kung gagawan kita tapos Fender clone pala baka isipin mo Dumble.
*true story
IMO the amp builder makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boogsy on October 07, 2009, 11:44:46 AM
local?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: nineworkz on October 07, 2009, 12:12:08 PM
OT lang:
just got a copy of "Fourplay Live in Capetown" DVD
grabe sa tone si Larry Carlton!
his 335 plus two Dumble Overdrive amps is the bomb!
:evil:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 12:15:54 PM
about the customer ot about the builder? parang sinasabi n'yang pwede n'ya lituhin yung nagpapagawa? tama ba?
sensya na slow haha :lol:
What he means is why would you covet something you have no experience hearing or playing especially that you want one custom-made? It is not like commissioning someone to make custom-made boutique stompbox.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 07, 2009, 12:44:24 PM
Dumble-dore? :lol:
some people just want to bite off more than they can chew.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: itchybrain on October 07, 2009, 12:51:21 PM
Pero, what if may schematics o diagram yung gustong magpa-custom and, at the least-- given that he has a Dumble schematic that many websites give away for free, is a way to, just maybe, have Dumble-esque tone experience?
Digs?
Damn. 'Di ko yata gets..
:-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: toybitz on October 07, 2009, 12:58:55 PM
local? but wood matters more than local, isn't it is very there?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: itchybrain on October 07, 2009, 01:02:41 PM
What he means is why would you covet something you have no experience hearing or playing especially that you want one custom-made? It is not like commissioning someone to make custom-made boutique stompbox.
ah true... thanks sir :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: glassjaw_jc on October 07, 2009, 01:39:16 PM
mababaw ang reasoning nung builder...
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: bgarcia on October 07, 2009, 01:53:57 PM
Ito dapat sagot ng builder:
“Hindi kita kayang gawan dahil ako mismo walang alam sa tunog ng dumble. Di pa ako nakagamit eh. Tsaka dahil fine-tuned sa taste ng orig owner ang bawat dumble, hindi pare-pareho ang tunog ng dumble. Kaninong dumble ang i-cloclone natin? Ok may schematic ka, kaninong dumble ito and accurate ba ito? Pareho ba kayo ng taste? Assuming mabuo natin schematic mo, pareho natin hindi alam kung tunog dumble nga ito. Mag zendrive ka nalang.”
:-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: nathanmanansala on October 07, 2009, 02:14:12 PM
onga. i would've replied "i dont care. basta gawan moko ng "dumble clone". kahit fender clone talaga sya. basta pag inabot mo sakin, sabihin mo "dumble clone ito." presyong pang dumble clone pa din ang ibabayad ko. just make it happen." :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: toybitz on October 07, 2009, 02:14:25 PM
yung builder, fender clone ang kayang gawin, hindi pa niya kaya ang dumble...
though may rason siya, maganda lang din ang palusot niya.
joke time lang.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: glassjaw_jc on October 07, 2009, 02:19:04 PM
onga. i would've replied "i dont care. basta gawan moko ng "dumble clone". kahit fender clone talaga sya. basta pag inabot mo sakin, sabihin mo "dumble clone ito." presyong pang dumble clone pa din ang ibabayad ko. just make it happen." :lol:
mismo :-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boogsy on October 07, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
Di ko rin masyado gets. Why would the builder knowingly build a Fender clone, eh D clone nga yung pinapagawa? I'm sure pagkita palang niya ng schem eh malalaman niya kung Fender clone pala yung nasa schem. That tells a lot about the builder's attitude IMO.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: inigo on October 07, 2009, 02:27:23 PM
Why wouldn't the amp builder skip the prinsipyo thing and build one anyways? Hindi naman art ang pinapagawa eh: it's not as if he'll design one from scratch and put his brand on it. He'll probably follow a known schematic and parts list, parang paassemble lang. He won't "build a Dumble clone", he'll just be "building an amp described in a particular schematic". And he'll be paid anyways.
Unless, of course, meron palang "selling out" sa amp assembly business :) Kung meron pala, edi color me clueless... I'm just taking the client's side of the situation.
And why would the builder intentionally build a Fender clone? Laftrip itong builder na ito ha. :D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boogsy on October 07, 2009, 02:38:44 PM
Why wouldn't the amp builder skip the prinsipyo thing and build one anyways? Hindi naman art ang pinapagawa eh: it's not as if he'll design one from scratch and put his brand on it. He'll probably follow a known schematic and parts list, parang paassemble lang. He won't "build a Dumble clone", he'll just be "building an amp described in a particular schematic". And he'll be paid anyways.
Unless, of course, meron palang "selling out" sa amp assembly business :) Kung meron pala, edi color me clueless... I'm just taking the client's side of the situation.
And why would the builder intentionally build a Fender clone? Laftrip itong builder na ito ha. :D
Yun nga eh.. pag sinabi kong build me a Zendrive clone, pwede pala isagot sakin "hindi pwede, baka gawan kita ng Boss akalain mo Zendrive"?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 02:43:21 PM
Why wouldn't the amp builder skip the prinsipyo thing and build one anyways? Hindi naman art ang pinapagawa eh: it's not as if he'll design one from scratch and put his brand on it. He'll probably follow a known schematic and parts list, parang paassemble lang. He won't "build a Dumble clone", he'll just be "building an amp described in a particular schematic". And he'll be paid anyways.
Unless, of course, meron palang "selling out" sa amp assembly business :) Kung meron pala, edi color me clueless... I'm just taking the client's side of the situation.
And why would the builder intentionally build a Fender clone? Laftrip itong builder na ito ha. :D
I think the main reason is not the science, but the psycho-acoustic principle of the builder.
Here's a very good example... ZENDRIVES, ZENDRIVE CLONES & ZENDRIVE CLONE CLONES.
The Zen Drive was designed primarily to mimic a Dumble. So I assume, when you buy a Zen Drive, you cannot deny you are going for that famed Dumble OD tone... After several Zen Drive units sold, despite being plugged to different amps, Zendrive users make accolades and such. So now, reverse engineers clone the Zendrive. In essence, they clone what is supposed to be a cheap take on cloning a Dumble amp. Then, you also have reverse engineers of Zen Drive clones.
If you were to put all these pedals side by side, would they sound the same? I bet not. But what are they supposed to mimic? A Dumble! An amp that I assume no one among us has plugged into.
I know someone who modded his Mesa Boogie S.O.B. and apparently, it was modded to have the Dumble OD tonestack. When I heard it in action, I was like :? . 2 possibilities: 1) If he nailed the Dumble tone right on the head, I would be glad NOT to have bought a Dumble which cost $15,000 at the time. 2) If he did not nail the Dumble tone but followed the schematics, I would not be interested either in getting that famed Dumble tone because probably you need the gnomes and snake oil to get the tone.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 02:46:00 PM
I think the main reason is not the science, but the psycho-acoustic principle of the builder.
Here's a very good example... ZENDRIVES, ZENDRIVE CLONES & ZENDRIVE CLONE CLONES.
The Zen Drive was designed primarily to mimic a Dumble. So I assume, when you buy a Zen Drive, you cannot deny you are going for that famed Dumble OD tone... After several Zen Drive units sold, despite being plugged to different amps, Zendrive users make accolades and such. So now, reverse engineers clone the Zendrive. In essence, they clone what is supposed to be a cheap take on cloning a Dumble amp. Then, you also have reverse engineers of Zen Drive clones.
If you were to put all these pedals side by side, would they sound the same? I bet not. But what are they supposed to mimic? A Dumble! An amp that I assume no one among us has plugged into.
I know someone who modded his Mesa Boogie S.O.B. and apparently, it was modded to have the Dumble OD tonestack. When I heard it in action, I was like :? . 2 possibilities: 1) If he nailed the Dumble tone right on the head, I would be glad NOT to have bought a Dumble which cost $15,000 at the time. 2) If he did not nail the Dumble tone but followed the schematics, I would not be interested either in getting that famed Dumble tone because probably because you need the gnomes and snake oil to get the tone.
I see your point now. If that's the case, sana sinabi nalang ng builder "Pakinggan mo muna, you might not like it kasi". Mas appropriate ata kesa "Hindi pwede."
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
I see your point now. If that's the case, sana sinabi nalang ng builder "Pakinggan mo muna, you might not like it kasi". Mas appropriate ata kesa "Hindi pwede."
At whose expense?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: curiousdcat on October 07, 2009, 03:02:30 PM
Assuming that the builder does know how to clone one, the proper thing he could have done was to tell the buyer that he may not like a Dumble because of the nuances in character that each Dumble has. Even if the buyer has not tried a Dumble yet, the builder must not discount the4 fact that there is a reason why the buyer would want a clone. Maybe the buyer has a friend he really trusts that recommends the amp. The builder should not take that away from the buyer much like how a lot of us, if not all of us, try out something for the first time based merely on trends, rumors, hearsay or much worse, the endorsement of someone famous and popular.
The buyer, on the other hand, is putting himself at the risk of not getting what he is expecting. No matter what factor convinced the buyer to get a clone made, it still would be better for him to have tried out one so that he will really know what he is getting.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boogsy on October 07, 2009, 03:02:58 PM
Good question. I am sure the builder wouldnt make one just so the customer can test it. Although iba rin talaga in person, at the very least he could listen to recordings. If the customer insists on having one built and provides a schematic, the builder should just let him know na there's a chance he won't like it.
We take the same kind of risk when ordering pedals we haven't heard in person (That's the only way we can try 'em if they're not sold locally). We listen to demos, read reviews, etc. Pag dumating na and we don't like it, we sell it and move on.
If he simply has to stick to the schem, di na niya na concern if the customer likes it or not. It's not as if he's selling his own product with a personal guarantee that whoever plays it will sound like Robben Ford.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: glassjaw_jc on October 07, 2009, 03:13:15 PM
clone yung pinapagawa.. hindi "dumble".. only dumble can make a dumble. whether the result cops the characteristics of an actual dumble is besides the point. when you are asking for a clone, you are asking for an approximation of the original. since it's an approximation, the result will most likely not be equal to the original.. if it is, then it's your lucky day!
assuming schematics was verified to be from a dumble amp, and you follow the schematic down to the last value, the result should not be that far off. you cannot clone a fender with the sound of a boogie. electronics is more science than art. magkakatalo na lang sa tolerance level nung mga parts na ginamit.
the purpose of having a clone built is for the end user to have an idea and experience what the original may sound or look like, then use it for whatever purpose he deemed right.. if i'm asking for a perfect result, i'd hunt down dumble (if he's still alive) and have him build me one of his amps at gun point.. i'll pay after :-D
kung ang dahilan lang ng builder kung baket ayaw nya gawin yung clone eh dahil di pa nakakaexperience ng original dumble yung kliyente, eh sinasabi nya na dapat di gumagawa ng clone coz it's highly probable na yung bumibili ng clone eh di pa nakakaexperience ng orig.
for me the reasoning is bullcrap
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 03:24:18 PM
clone yung pinapagawa.. hindi "dumble".. only dumble can make a dumble. whether the result cops the characteristics of an actual dumble is besides the point. when you are asking for a clone, you are asking for an approximation of the original. since it's an approximation, the result will most likely not be equal to the original.. if it is, then it's your lucky day!
assuming schematics was verified to be from a dumble amp, and you follow the schematic down to the last value, the result should not be that far off. you cannot clone a fender with the sound of a boogie. electronics is more science than art. magkakatalo na lang sa tolerance level nung mga parts na ginamit.
the purpose of having a clone built is for the end user to have an idea and experience what the original may sound or look like, then use it for whatever purpose he deemed right.. if i'm asking for a perfect result, i'd hunt down dumble (if he's still alive) and have him build me one of his amps at gun point.. i'll pay after :-D
kung ang dahilan lang ng builder kung baket ayaw nya gawin yung clone eh dahil di pa nakakaexperience ng original dumble yung kliyente, eh sinasabi nya na dapat di gumagawa ng clone coz it's highly probable na yung bumibili ng clone eh di pa nakakaexperience ng orig.
for me the reasoning is bullcrap
I think the builder is not nuts to think his client has ever plugged to a Dumble. Heck, even a lot of Americans in America have not yet plugged to a Dumble.
When the builder talked to me about it, he was more into the logic of why would one want a Dumble if he has no idea (literally no idea) about how it is supposed to sound? The guy also has also analyzed several Dumble clones, including Brunos, and he even mentioned that he was dumbfounded when the circuit of the Brunos were far from special. And why the $5000 tag?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: changedmynametojimi on October 07, 2009, 03:28:30 PM
clone yung pinapagawa.. hindi "dumble".. only dumble can make a dumble. whether the result cops the characteristics of an actual dumble is besides the point. when you are asking for a clone, you are asking for an approximation of the original. since it's an approximation, the result will most likely not be equal to the original.. if it is, then it's your lucky day!
assuming schematics was verified to be from a dumble amp, and you follow the schematic down to the last value, the result should not be that far off. you cannot clone a fender with the sound of a boogie. electronics is more science than art. magkakatalo na lang sa tolerance level nung mga parts na ginamit.
the purpose of having a clone built is for the end user to have an idea and experience what the original may sound or look like, then use it for whatever purpose he deemed right.. if i'm asking for a perfect result, i'd hunt down dumble (if he's still alive) and have him build me one of his amps at gun point.. i'll pay after :-D
kung ang dahilan lang ng builder kung baket ayaw nya gawin yung clone eh dahil di pa nakakaexperience ng original dumble yung kliyente, eh sinasabi nya na dapat di gumagawa ng clone coz it's highly probable na yung bumibili ng clone eh di pa nakakaexperience ng orig.
for me the reasoning is bullcrap
i agree as well, lots of question or inquiries he could've asked. smart mouth ah, well thats just my opinion, parang labo kasi non sabi niya, or he is just not up to the task
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 03:31:24 PM
i agree as well, lots of question or inquiries he could've asked. smart mouth ah, well thats just my opinion, parang labo kasi non sabi niya, or he is just not up to the task
Now this I can assure is a false assumption.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: Decay. Sustain. Release. on October 07, 2009, 03:32:43 PM
"kung gusto, maraming paraan.. kung ayaw.. maraming dahilan"
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: glassjaw_jc on October 07, 2009, 03:32:52 PM
When the builder talked to me about it, he was more into the logic of why would one want a Dumble if he has no idea (literally no idea) about how it is supposed to sound?
The guy also has also analyzed several Dumble clones, including Brunos, and he even mentioned that he was dumbfounded when the circuit of the Brunos were far from special. And why the $5000 tag?
i've been wondering about the same thing about all those boutique stuff. only reason i could think off is exclusivity.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boogsy on October 07, 2009, 03:35:00 PM
I'm sure the builder's intentions were noble. I salute him for not pulling the trigger agad even if it means na kikita siya. I guess masama lang talaga dating nung sagot niya sa marami dito (including me). Like I said, some of us here order pedals without hearing them in person because we have no other choice but we are aware of the risks. Seems like the customer isnt, and its the builder's responsibility to inform him.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: toybitz on October 07, 2009, 03:35:08 PM
what if the buyer, wanted to hear how a dumble sounds like?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 03:35:27 PM
what if the buyer, wanted to hear how a dumble sounds like?
or at least an approximation, so he could see for himself what everyone is raving about. Yun nga lang, sana magresearch muna siya bago siya magpabuild agad.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: glassjaw_jc on October 07, 2009, 03:37:14 PM
ah i see... we'll if i were the builder, i'd just set expectations and educate the client as much as i can para lang walang sisihan.. normal lang naman yun eh..
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 03:37:43 PM
could be, but his reasoning or answer is out of line, kung di niya trip dumble, he could've said "hmmm di pa ako nakagawa non, dami kasi tone na sinasabi na dumble daw eh, which dumble tone ba trip mo? carlton, ford, etc., blah blah blah, pwede kasi lahat naman etc.,,"
"kung gusto, maraming paraan.. kung ayaw.. maraming dahilan"
mismo.....kasi pag ganito kalaki un task at hand, its make or break, career defining kumbaga, either ikaw un naka clone or dagdag ka sa statistic ng mga nagfail :mrgreen:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: changedmynametojimi on October 07, 2009, 03:42:12 PM
ah i see... we'll if i were the builder, i'd just set expectations and educate the client as much as i can para lang walang sisihan.. normal lang naman yun eh..
ito siguro un point or dapat tinakbo ng usapan.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: Phil on October 07, 2009, 03:45:39 PM
whats stopping this person from ordering a cheap ceriatone kit? they have ODS model....Dambol clone.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 07, 2009, 03:47:01 PM
Put it this way man. gagastos ang client. Ano ba yung gusto ng client? Dambol ba? Siguro. Eh alam ba niya ang tunog ng Dambol? Hindi.
Logical yung Dahilan na iyon ng builder.
Nabanggit ba ng nag-kwento sa iyo kung merong Schematics ang CLIENT?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: paul_sigua on October 07, 2009, 04:58:25 PM
OT:
skunkyfunk, magkano magpagawa sa kanya ng dumble clone?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: dantuts on October 07, 2009, 05:12:24 PM
if i got the original schematics , and parts for the amp .. pagagawa ko na ...hindi naman sya siguro gagamit ng fender BD na schematics kung magpapagawa ka ng "dumble" clone..
pagawa mo na skunk for the meantime, you'll eventually get a real Dumble in the future anyway.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: spankyrigor on October 07, 2009, 05:13:41 PM
To know about Dumbles is to know the whole story about them and the mystique that it holds to a lot of people.
Mahabang istorya yan. you only have to do a search on the word "Dumble" on www.thegearpage.net to come up with tons of threads about it, each 100++ pages long.
Long story short, on side you have the select few who can afford and actually own one (Howard has to actually WANT to make one for you btw, and it can take YEARS for him to finish an amp). On the other side you have people who can only afford the clones (Carol Ann, Fuchs, Bruno, Two Rock etc), and claim that they have THE Dumble tone for less dollars. kARAMIHAN SA MGA YUN HINDI PA NAKAGAMIT NG TUTUONG DUMBLE, so paano nila nalaman na magkatunog nga? :roll:
Truth is, no two Dumble amps sound the same. One schematic is no guarantee that you get the sound of Larry Carlton or Robben Ford or Carlos Santana, all of which sound drastically different. Howard Dumble tunes his amps according to the player.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: dantuts on October 07, 2009, 05:15:27 PM
well.. you do have a point.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: spankyrigor on October 07, 2009, 05:37:00 PM
If you guys do a google search you'll find out that this whole topic of Dumble Amps have regressed to that of a joke at some extremes.
I assure you, if it were some other brand, iba ang takbo ng usapan.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boogsy on October 07, 2009, 08:16:18 PM
If you guys do a google search you'll find out that this whole topic of Dumble Amps have regressed to that of a joke at some extremes.
I assure you, if it were some other brand, iba ang takbo ng usapan.
Here you go:
"Howard Alexander Dumble is the father of every kid in this town!"
"Howard Alexander Dumble once showed me a video of him making love to my wife, and it was the most beautiful thing I ever saw!"
"One time I was with Dumble in the back of a pickup truck, along with a live deer. Dumble goes up to the deer and says, 'I'm Howard Alexander Dumble! SAY IT!' Then he manipulates the deer's lips in such a way as to make it say, 'Howard Alexander Dumble' ... It wasn't exactly like it, but it was pretty good for a deer!'"
"He'd eat a homeless person if you dared him!"
"His poop is used as currency in Argentina."
"He sweats Gatorade"
"He once breast-fed a flamingo back to health."
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: Phil on October 07, 2009, 11:24:51 PM
I just had the opportunity to plug into a Bludotone ODS and Two Rock last Saturday at the LA Amp Show ...
AND......and it sounds like.......... a dumble clone.
......the cleans also sound like....... a Fender clone.
If I was the guy who wanted the an amp built......I would tell that builder to build me specs base on a 60s blackface twin and just buy that zendrive clone from that dude who makes it locally. THE END.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skrumian on October 07, 2009, 11:35:42 PM
skunkyfunk, magkano magpagawa sa kanya ng dumble clone?
:-D
on the topic: the builder should have not given a sarcastic answer. he should have professionally educate the client. for all we know, the client may just have so many moola to waste and just want to satisfy himself with all the ravings he/she hears/reads.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: spankyrigor on October 08, 2009, 01:14:30 AM
You mean, no two Dumble amps sound the same, sir. :wink:
a-HA!! hindi ko nakita yun ah... :lol:
@skrumian: what we have is a filtered recount of the gist of a conversation that, for all we know, happened years ago. for all we know the actual conversation was probably very civil.
kung ako ang tatanungin, I'd have a bassman clone. I love my pedals and I love marshalls. And early marshalls were cloned from the bassman circuit. Or any blackface amp with huge headroom.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: arkeetar on October 08, 2009, 07:17:33 AM
iba din kasi dating ng pagkakabasa sa pagkakasabi :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: gitarakista27 on October 08, 2009, 07:46:13 AM
Teka, OT lang pero, if I had the money, and I bought the best dambol out there, as in the most expensive, and mouthwatering dambol, and brought it to a live performance, do you think the any of the audience members will actually hear the difference if i plug into a fender? or tayong mga gitarista lang?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: jimy james on October 08, 2009, 08:26:13 AM
yung builder, fender clone ang kayang gawin, hindi pa niya kaya ang dumble...
though may rason siya, maganda lang din ang palusot niya.
joke time lang.
Di pare, baka tutoo yang sinabi mo. Nahirapan din ako mag-research kung saan ako makakakita ng Dumble schematics. Mahirap.
O as of last I know, only one Dumble has been "verifiably" traced and schematically nailed. Parang Dumble #44 lang the rest have extrapolated parts values.
And yes, one dumble will not sound as the next because they are created to spec of the owner. So kahit nakarinig ka ng tutoong dumble, you will still not have an aural reference because EACH DUMBLE SOUNDS DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER.
Kaya tama Toybitz, baka nagpapatawa lang yung amp builder.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: BAMF on October 08, 2009, 08:38:52 AM
I just had the opportunity to plug into a Bludotone ODS and Two Rock last Saturday at the LA Amp Show ...
AND......and it sounds like.......... a dumble clone.
......the cleans also sound like....... a Fender clone.
If I was the guy who wanted the an amp built......I would tell that builder to build me specs base on a 60s blackface twin and just buy that zendrive clone from that dude who makes it locally. THE END.
Amen. Blackface are DA BOMB. Teka I used to be a Marshall fan (well still kinda am). Nagma-mature na ba ko ? hahahaha. Lampas buko na siguro ako !
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: jimy james on October 08, 2009, 08:45:53 AM
Put it this way man. gagastos ang client. Ano ba yung gusto ng client? Dambol ba? Siguro. Eh alam ba niya ang tunog ng Dambol? Hindi.
Logical yung Dahilan na iyon ng builder.
Ewan ko dodj. While I see it, I still can't see it. It all boils down to "BAKIT BA EH YUN ANG GUSTO NG CLIENT. Give him all the info you got and ask him if its up to his spec. Pag gusto , eh di go. Kung di nya type yung idea na #44 or #101 lang ang schems mo na available eh di wag.
As a builder, wala ka na dun kung ano ang motives ng client mo. Baka gusto nya lang ng bragging rights (without the heavy price tag). Baka gusto nya malaman what the fuzz is all about. Ako, I built amps just to see what the fuzz is about so it's a valid motive.
So IMHO, yun lang yun. Kung ano man ang motive ng client, wala ka na dun. Just do your best, offer all the caveats and be honest as possible.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: arkeetar on October 08, 2009, 09:03:22 AM
(http://smileyicons.net/s/433.gif)
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: abyssinianson on October 08, 2009, 09:46:56 AM
Customer: Magpapagawa sana po ako ng Dumble amp clone... Amp Builder: Talaga sir? Bakit po? Customer: Marami kasi nagsasabi maganda siya eh. Amp Builder: Nakagamit o nakarinig ka na ba ng Dumble o Dumble Clone? Customer: Hindi pa po eh. Amp Builder: Hindi kita puwede gawan. Kasi kung gagawan kita tapos Fender clone pala baka isipin mo Dumble.
*true story
IMO the amp builder makes a lot of sense.
good one, skunk. i don't know why someone would ask for a "Dumble" if they've never even seen, heard or used the thing. if i were the builder, i'd certainly stare at the potential customer to make sure he wasn't bulsh*ting me and ask," Teka...gusto mo ng amp na hindo ka nakagamit or nakrinig? Gusto mo eh imaginary amp, ano? May lagnat ka ba?" As such, the retard in question deserves the coveted... (http://skepacabra.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 08, 2009, 12:32:32 PM
Just for thought: Dumbles in action (with Alexander Dumble)
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 08, 2009, 12:50:19 PM
this.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: Phil on October 08, 2009, 02:15:10 PM
Henry kaiser is the epitome of how not to play. That's his way of playing...
Make him stop!! :cry:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boncram on October 13, 2009, 06:41:34 AM
Yung pagkaka-dahilan nung amp builder nasa level of thinking ng amp builders at pros.
Yung level of thinking nung client hindi at par sa amp builder.
So dapat bumaba sa level of thinking ng client yung amp builder at inexplain kung ano man rason niya. Dahil kung hindi eh lalabas na snob yung amp builder.
Unless yung pagkakasabi nung amp builder eh malumanay at nakangiti siya :wink: Eh di ok lang kung ganon :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: arkeetar on October 13, 2009, 06:58:01 AM
Yung pagkaka-dahilan nung amp builder nasa level of thinking ng amp builders at pros.
Yung level of thinking nung client hindi at par sa amp builder.
So dapat bumaba sa level of thinking ng client yung amp builder at inexplain kung ano man rason niya. Dahil kung hindi eh lalabas na snob yung amp builder. Unless yung pagkakasabi nung amp builder eh malumanay at nakangiti siya :wink: Eh di ok lang kung ganon :lol:
Nice! adjustment... kung sino mas nakakaintindi s'ya ang umunawa :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: deltaslim on October 13, 2009, 09:26:18 AM
Malabo ata approach ng builder ah. A good builder should help address the ignorance of the client, if any, not point it out and leave him hanging. At the least, he should reserve subjective judgement of his client's preferences and distinguish it from his capacity and skill to execute the job at hand. Or he can simply just refuse to accept the job if it bothers him that much. Di porke technically capable ang builder ay maayos siya kausap.
Pano kaya kung sa isang retoke clinic yun:
Client: Doc, gusto ko magpalaki ng boobs para mas ma-attract ang husband ko sa akin at di na siya titingin sa ibang babae. Doc: Ok, pero pano mo nasabi na di na titingin sa ibang babae ang husband mo? Pano kung di naman pala boobs ang gusto nya ipaayos sa yo kasi pangit ang mukha mo? Pano kung ugali ang problema sa yo? Pano kung may girls na mas maganda pa rin at mas malaki boobs? Pano kung maging lapitin ka sa ibang guys tapos magselos siya, tapos iwanan ka pa rin? Client: Uhm... ay ganun po ba? Di ko po masasagot kung ano mangyayari eh. Doc: He di mo pa alam eh bakit mo gusto? Di mo alam ang pinapasok mo.
:-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: Phil on October 13, 2009, 09:30:24 AM
Client: Doc, gusto ko magpalaki ng boobs para mas ma-attract ang husband ko sa akin at di na siya titingin sa ibang babae. Doc: Ok, pero pano mo nasabi na di na titingin sa ibang babae ang husband mo? Pano kung di naman pala boobs ang gusto nya ipaayos sa yo kasi pangit ang mukha mo? Pano kung ugali ang problema sa yo? Pano kung may girls na mas maganda pa rin at mas malaki boobs? Pano kung maging lapitin ka sa ibang guys tapos magselos siya, tapos iwanan ka pa rin? Client: Uhm... ay ganun po ba? Di ko po masasagot kung ano mangyayari eh. Doc: He di mo pa alam eh bakit mo gusto? Di mo alam ang pinapasok mo.
:-D
eh di magparetoke na lang sa mukha and vaginal reconstruction para marestore ang pagka VIRGIN.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: pitongjerome on October 13, 2009, 09:42:13 AM
pwedeng:
1. ayaw niya masayang ang pera ng buyer dahil baka di nito magustuhan ang tunog and
2. di niya kaya.
ewan ko di pako nakatry ng dambol e.
:evil:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: spankyrigor on October 13, 2009, 10:19:59 AM
me nakausap ako na doctor nuon. pwede pala gawin to. :-D
waw. kaso ang hindi natin mapapareconstruct, ay ang isip ng babae.. nakatatak na sakanya yun hehe
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: digitalcyco on October 13, 2009, 11:03:34 AM
analogy dyan:
custumer: "Paint me a picture of a cockaburra" painter: "Okay, I'll paint you one. But have you seen one?" custumer: "I dont even know what it looks like, just paint me one."
painter proceeds to paint but it looks like an owl and tells custumer its sort of a cockaburra
custumer: "yay thanks, it looks just like a cockaburra" that.... without even seeing a picture of the actual bird.
-----------------
yun nga eh. why would you have something built according to specs that you want that you don't even have an idea how it actually sounds like in the first place?
:-D :-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: jimy james on October 13, 2009, 11:03:34 AM
RETOKE BA USAPAN? Doc Dave is da man!!! isang boob job lang, PRS Ted Mc Carthy na katumbas :-D kung vaginal restoration, baka Baker, Suhr, Bogner & op cors...Dumble[/b] 8-)
I should have been a nip/tuck... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: pitongjerome on October 13, 2009, 11:07:06 AM
custumer: "Paint me a picture of a cockaburra" painter: "Okay, I'll paint you one. But have you seen one?" custumer: "I dont even know what it looks like, just paint me one."
painter proceeds to paint but it looks like an owl and tells custumer its sort of a cockaburra
custumer: "yay thanks, it looks just like a cockaburra" that.... without even seeing a picture of the actual bird.
-----------------
yun nga eh. why would you have something built according to specs that you want that you don't even have an idea how it actually sounds like in the first place?
:-D :-D
maybe the painter knows yun itsura? so he can paint that bird. hindi niya mapapaint kung hindi niya alam. pero yun lang hindi maveverify ng buyer. but others may verify.. pero kung ayaw manloko nung painter, sasabihin ang totoo :-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: arkeetar on October 13, 2009, 11:12:30 AM
(http://smileyicons.net/s/148.gif)
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: boogsy on October 13, 2009, 01:01:01 PM
custumer: "Paint me a picture of a cockaburra" painter: "Okay, I'll paint you one. But have you seen one?" custumer: "I dont even know what it looks like, just paint me one."
painter proceeds to paint but it looks like an owl and tells custumer its sort of a cockaburra
custumer: "yay thanks, it looks just like a cockaburra" that.... without even seeing a picture of the actual bird.
-----------------
yun nga eh. why would you have something built according to specs that you want that you don't even have an idea how it actually sounds like in the first place?
:-D :-D
Your example would make the painter a turd. Ang point is the painter should KNOW what a cockaburra looks like, which is why the customer relied on him for that task, and still paints an owl. That is him taking advantage of ignorance.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 13, 2009, 01:07:52 PM
RETOKE BA USAPAN? Doc Dave is da man!!! isang boob job lang, PRS Ted Mc Carthy na katumbas :-D kung vaginal restoration, baka Baker, Suhr, Bogner & op cors...Dumble[/b] 8-)
I should have been a nip/tuck... :lol: :lol: :lol:
LOLZ!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: arkeetar on October 13, 2009, 01:14:22 PM
Your example would make the painter a turd. Ang point is the painter should KNOW what a cockaburra looks like, which is why the customer relied on him for that task, and still paints an owl. That is him taking advantage of ignorance.
magkaiba kayo ng point of view :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 13, 2009, 02:33:56 PM
This thread reminds me of:
ARIE'S CLIENT: Ang ganda pala ng tunog ng Vox AC30! ARIE: Talaga? Saan ka nakasubok? ARIE'S CLIENT: Sa POD!
---------
Funny that even some Vox AC30 reissue owners cannot assume the originals (those JMI's with Wooden transformers) sound like the new ones. And OTOH some assume they have 'played through one' using a POD. :D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: changedmynametojimi on October 13, 2009, 07:50:26 PM
Malabo ata approach ng builder ah. A good builder should help address the ignorance of the client, if any, not point it out and leave him hanging. At the least, he should reserve subjective judgement of his client's preferences and distinguish it from his capacity and skill to execute the job at hand. Or he can simply just refuse to accept the job if it bothers him that much. Di porke technically capable ang builder ay maayos siya kausap.
Pano kaya kung sa isang retoke clinic yun:
Client: Doc, gusto ko magpalaki ng boobs para mas ma-attract ang husband ko sa akin at di na siya titingin sa ibang babae. Doc: Ok, pero pano mo nasabi na di na titingin sa ibang babae ang husband mo? Pano kung di naman pala boobs ang gusto nya ipaayos sa yo kasi pangit ang mukha mo? Pano kung ugali ang problema sa yo? Pano kung may girls na mas maganda pa rin at mas malaki boobs? Pano kung maging lapitin ka sa ibang guys tapos magselos siya, tapos iwanan ka pa rin? Client: Uhm... ay ganun po ba? Di ko po masasagot kung ano mangyayari eh. Doc: He di mo pa alam eh bakit mo gusto? Di mo alam ang pinapasok mo.
:-D
mismo, smart mouth un doctor dami sinabi, may punto pero out of context...
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: paengkee on October 13, 2009, 09:37:08 PM
i dont understand what all this debating is about. to me its just a builder who refuses to make an amp for an idiot who doesnt know any better. the builder doesnt want the user to go "this is a dumble clone" and then upon further inspection, fender clone pala. minus cred for the builder.
good builder. wont let an idiot ruin business.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: digitalcyco on October 13, 2009, 11:38:03 PM
cheers na lang and more beer :-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: psychic_sushi on October 14, 2009, 02:07:21 AM
custumer: "Paint me a picture of a cockaburra" painter: "Okay, I'll paint you one. But have you seen one?" custumer: "I dont even know what it looks like, just paint me one."
painter proceeds to paint but it looks like an owl and tells custumer its sort of a cockaburra
custumer: "yay thanks, it looks just like a cockaburra" that.... without even seeing a picture of the actual bird.
-----------------
yun nga eh. why would you have something built according to specs that you want that you don't even have an idea how it actually sounds like in the first place?
Either ways, it must have fantastic chirpy midrange and harmonic hair :-D
Couldn't help myself with the Kookaburra thing. They used to drive me nuts early in the morning coz they're so bloody noisy. Plus, my brother was attacked by one during a family bbq when we were kids. it wanted his bbq's sausage sandwich that badly...
As for the topic, I had a discussion with Mang Raul about this incident a couple of months ago. Was asking me about all that dumble rumble.
HAD just has so much voodoo with his work. Stories about using radioshack parts on EJ's ODS, a graveyard of gutted Fender amps with their "magic transformers" dissected, the "do not call me to follow-up your amp while its being made, coz if you do, the contract is terminated" agreement you have to sign, his attention to parts detail AND proximity from each other within the board... etc etc.
Last i read, HAD still makes amps in very small quantities, so I've read. And services Santana's and Carlton's amps. Still pricey, but he aint makin the same amount of money they fetch for in the secondhand market (approx. $12k b/n vs $50k+!) Even Mike Landau can't get a hold of him, though his own ODS has been reported to be more than 3 months complete, but he can't claim it.
Mang Raul displayed great wisdom in refusing to make one, for the sake of not just his reputation but also to avoid getting a mislead customer. If he wanted the money he couldve easily said "yes" and tap danced his way to the bank. In a way, he kinda gives me the impression that he's our very own HAD, coz everybody seems to be looking for him now and he's nowhere to be found! :lol:
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: lykenhowl on October 14, 2009, 05:08:08 AM
Dapat ang sinabi na lang eh:
Di ko alam ang tunog ng Dumble clone, nakarinig ka na ba ng Dumble clone??? Kung hindi eh kahit gawan pa kita hindi natin alam kung malayo o malapit sa tunog na gusto mo.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 14, 2009, 07:50:37 AM
Either ways, it must have fantastic chirpy midrange and harmonic hair :-D
Couldn't help myself with the Kookaburra thing. They used to drive me nuts early in the morning coz they're so bloody noisy. Plus, my brother was attacked by one during a family bbq when we were kids. it wanted his bbq's sausage sandwich that badly...
As for the topic, I had a discussion with Mang Raul about this incident a couple of months ago. Was asking me about all that dumble rumble.
HAD just has so much voodoo with his work. Stories about using radioshack parts on EJ's ODS, a graveyard of gutted Fender amps with their "magic transformers" dissected, the "do not call me to follow-up your amp while its being made, coz if you do, the contract is terminated" agreement you have to sign, his attention to parts detail AND proximity from each other within the board... etc etc.
Last i read, HAD still makes amps in very small quantities, so I've read. And services Santana's and Carlton's amps. Still pricey, but he aint makin the same amount of money they fetch for in the secondhand market (approx. $12k b/n vs $50k+!) Even Mike Landau can't get a hold of him, though his own ODS has been reported to be more than 3 months complete, but he can't claim it.
Mang Raul displayed great wisdom in refusing to make one, for the sake of not just his reputation but also to avoid getting a mislead customer. If he wanted the money he couldve easily said "yes" and tap danced his way to the bank. In a way, he kinda gives me the impression that he's our very own HAD, coz everybody seems to be looking for him now and he's nowhere to be found! :lol:
If he wanted money, he should have just settled in the US of A and kicked a lot of amptechs' butts there. But I'm glad he's doing his job here in the country.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 14, 2009, 08:36:06 AM
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: Phil on October 14, 2009, 09:36:54 AM
ARIE'S CLIENT: Ang ganda pala ng tunog ng Vox AC30! ARIE: Talaga? Saan ka nakasubok? ARIE'S CLIENT: Sa POD!
---------
Funny that even some Vox AC30 reissue owners cannot assume the originals (those JMI's with Wooden transformers) sound like the new ones. And OTOH some assume they have 'played through one' using a POD. :D
well I've read of people HERE saying this..... some of them are experts now of different amps because they have modellers... and they think it sounds exactly like the real thing.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: deltaslim on October 14, 2009, 09:43:09 AM
Di ko alam ang tunog ng Dumble clone, nakarinig ka na ba ng Dumble clone??? Kung hindi eh kahit gawan pa kita hindi natin alam kung malayo o malapit sa tunog na gusto mo.
That's a better approach but the heart of the matter is that it's a two pronged issue. What does the client really want: Dumble tone or an amp that closely follows a Dumble schematic? They are two very different things.
I think it's also why Arie shies away from building custom guitars. Great specs does not necessarily translate to a great-sounding guitar.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: deltaslim on October 14, 2009, 09:51:02 AM
ARIE'S CLIENT: Ang ganda pala ng tunog ng Vox AC30! ARIE: Talaga? Saan ka nakasubok? ARIE'S CLIENT: Sa POD!
---------
Funny that even some Vox AC30 reissue owners cannot assume the originals (those JMI's with Wooden transformers) sound like the new ones. And OTOH some assume they have 'played through one' using a POD. :D
OTOH, these modelers are useful tools to give you some impression of what the real thing sounds like, and perhaps guiding future buying decisions. Even if you don't eventually buy the real thing, the ability to use specific modeled tones (eg, a "AC30 sim") for tunes that call for it is a boon for many recording and gigging guitarists. (Count me in.)
Better to be ignorant but happy than knowledgeable but perennially dis-satisfied.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 14, 2009, 09:52:17 AM
well I've read of people HERE saying this..... some of them are experts now of different amps because they have modellers... and they think it sounds exactly like the real thing.
Yup, and I really am surprised no one talks up them Soldano SLOs because I haven't heard a great emulation of them ever. Great high gain amp that reminds you of Motley Crue. :D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 14, 2009, 09:54:29 AM
OTOH, these modelers are useful tools to give you some impression of what the real thing sounds like, and perhaps guiding future buying decisions. Even if you don't eventually buy the real thing, the ability to use specific modeled tones (eg, a "AC30 sim") for tunes that call for it is a boon for many recording and gigging guitarists. (Count me in.) Better to be ignorant but happy than knowledgeable but perennially dis-satisfied.
I guess the mere fact that pedalboards evolve faster than playing skill is a sign of perennial dissatisfaction. :D I rarely see someone who changes his taste drastically like one day he is a fan of the Mesa Boogie metal sound and woke up another day and wants to be a Vox AC30 guy.
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: spankyrigor on October 14, 2009, 09:59:10 AM
That's a better approach but the heart of the matter is that it's a two pronged issue. What does the client really want: Dumble tone or an amp that closely follows a Dumble schematic? They are two very different things.
I think it's also why Arie shies away from building custom guitars. Great specs does not necessarily translate to a great-sounding guitar.
NAIL ON THE HEAD!!! :lol: :lol:
Parallel situation:
which do you want: true PAF tone, or a pickup that is wound the same way as a PAF? which PAF? whose sound are you after?
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: pitongjerome on October 14, 2009, 10:01:29 AM
i want a dambol clone :-D :-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: spankyrigor on October 14, 2009, 10:03:49 AM
In a way, he kinda gives me the impression that he's our very own HAD, coz everybody seems to be looking for him now and he's nowhere to be found! :lol:
We'll you can always just have him come over to your house. :lol:
I know where Mang Raul is gonna be this saturday afternoon. for a few hours, anyway.. :-D
Title: Re: "magpapagawa ako ng Dumble clone..."
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 14, 2009, 10:06:58 AM
which do you want: true PAF tone, or a pickup that is wound the same way as a PAF? which PAF? whose sound are you after?
Heck even Gibson PAFs (and PATs) through the years have never been consistent. :D The mere fact that the DC resistance of one '50s PAF can be 8k ohms and another is 10k ohms shows that you can only have a blueprint of how to assemble things but the be-all and end-all is how it sounds, and if YOU like it.