hulika

Author Topic: Home recording  (Read 27736 times)

Offline palolo_worm

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« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2006, 04:13:07 PM »
honestly, your kit sounds great man! keep it up!  :D

Offline KitC

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« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2006, 11:56:47 AM »
Quote from: fredzs
try to listen to my recording.. gimme comments!!! about the sound quality.. and playing if pwede hahaha..

www.soundclick.com/dodo - sa compo 6 :D

i used 3 mics.. drum tracks recorded flat.. 1 kick mic, 1 snare mic, 1 LDC overhead.. :D

pahingi na rin tips on how to fix the recording, hehe.. i wanna compress the hell out of it but i dont know how LOL!


The kick lacks beef. Try this site for some pointers.
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Offline fredzs

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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2006, 02:24:34 PM »
yun nga e.. I wanna get a new mic nga for my Kick.. i want a beta 52 or d112 .. para at least naman maganda kick.. pati i think its in my muffling na rin e, kasi i use Remo Pinstripes with Remo Muff'ls pa so sobrang dead sya ...

Offline KitC

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« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2006, 06:27:38 PM »
Try to get a couple of matching small diaphragm condensers, kahit ung mga MXL 993, for a stereo image of the set. That will improve the overall balance and add a sense of space. Tapos, relegate the LDC as an ambiance mic starting around 2 meters away from the kit and mix it in gradually. Your xm1800 are better suited to snares and toms (mas prefer ko SM57), pero mukhang bitin for the kick. The D112 is ok although I've heard from some who were dissatisfied with it; good alternative is the Audix D6 - saw one sa Park Square dati. You're right about the muffling - too much will kill a drum sound, you just want to prevent the head from resonating.
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Offline somesabado

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« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2006, 10:46:21 AM »
guys...

san ba may cheap/good condenser mic dito sa pinas?
its all good...


Offline starfugger

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« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2006, 12:44:21 PM »
cheap condenser mics... hmmm. electronic depot.  the behringer ldc's sell for around 7k, the smaller ones might be a little cheaper.  also there's audiophile.  personally, i would rather purchase audio technica mics (japan made). mas consistent siguro tonog non, meaning hindi masyado magbabago quality over a long period of time.  then there are also samson products thats sell for dirt cheap.  so far ok naman yung samson headfones amp ko (luma na ilang beses na nalaglag pero ok na ok parin) so im guessing samson builds quality products kahit mura.  

then of course if u really want a bargain look for second hand stuff.

by the way, Mr Litos Benavides is selling condenser microphones from the UK.  mejo hindi ako familiar don sa brand kaya di ko naalala but i think theyre as cheap as the behringers.  7246138
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Offline reivel

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« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2006, 01:09:22 PM »
Quote from: aperture
i just bought a passive direct box. im quite pleased with its performance..  
remember the time that i posted the Dinosaur Direct Box..  i did try some researching and here's the manufacturer..  http://dinosauramps.com/home.htm from Eleca..  
here's the picture i took a while ago.. (i tried my best following the shot angle hehehe.)

and while digging more info about this direct box.. i found a very similar product from Nady Systems
hmm they're very very similar.. even the input/output and the ground lift switches..  only thing different about the nady and the dinosaur directbox are the labels. and it only cost me P980.. hehehe




hi! i was just browsing forums and been reading this topic... i'd like to ask what's this gadget (DIRECT BOX) for? i hope you wont mind answering my question. thank you!

Offline KitC

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« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2006, 10:57:59 PM »
The Direct box or DI box is used for interfacing unbalanced cables (guitar/instrument cables) with balanced lines (usually mic cables). Unbalanced cables are usually good up to 5 or 6 meters, greater than that and it's either hum city or a radio antenna. Balanced cables use a principle called common mode rejection, which I won't go into here, but suffice to say they are excellent for long cable runs because of their ability to 'cancel out' noise. This was discussed at length in this thread.

Just slightly OT: The quality of the matching transformer determines the transparency of a passive DI box. Poor quality transformers will color your sound. AFAIK, the best transformers available go by the Jensen name.
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Offline Tarkuz Toccata

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Re: dinosaur
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2006, 11:21:49 AM »
Quote from: reivel
hi! i was just browsing forums and been reading this topic... i'd like to ask what's this gadget (DIRECT BOX) for? i hope you wont mind answering my question. thank you!

here's a simple answer.

that gadget is for connecting an electronic musical instrument to a sound system thru a mic cable. also, a direct box splits an electronic musical instrument's signal into two -- one (balanced output) goes into a mixer and the other (parallel output) into an instrument amp.

hope this helps.
The common saying that the ears are the ultimate judge in music production? To some extent they certainly are, but as we are now aware, they can also be fooled extremely easily. -- "How The Ear Works" (2011) by Emmanuel Deruty

Offline notEworthy27

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« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2006, 04:34:54 AM »
Hi everyone! I've just found out about this forum from a friend of mine.  And so far, I've learned so much from you guys. :) Though I'm really confused right now. I don't know where to start.  I'm a newbie on DAWs. I just got my PC upgraded.  Right now here's the setup:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+
200gb Seagate baraccuda SATA
Nvidia 6600V+ 512mb
1gb Twinmos RAM
Soundblaster Audigy with 4.1 speakers

Well, the current setup was really intended for video editing but then the other half of my heart goes to music.  Sadly, I've been wanting to "set-up" a home studio. I've got the guitars, amps and drums.  All I need now is a way for my band to record our stuff.  Right now, I use Audition 1.5 as my recording software.  Then the mic which is an old Audio Technica mic (I don't know the model since the mic badly beat up and the labels are fading out) is directly plugged into the soundcard of my computer.  Probably the low-cost setup I want to setup (if possible that is) : connect at least 4 mics directly to the computer.

So first off my list of questions:

I want to change my soundcard.  My budget for this is 5-10k. Suggestions are welcome. I practically don't know where to start right?  But then I'm looking for an interface that accepts 4 inputs at once.  The best option probably would be M-audio's Delta 44.

2) Of course, mics are important. I'm planning to get 2-4 SM57's and a mic for the bass drum (I don't know which is ok for the bass drum though).  Budget would probably be 20-30k.

3) Mixer.  Having a soundcard that accepts 4 inputs already, do I still need a mixer? Probably instead of getting a mixer, a USB Control Fader would replace it...But then that would be a future upgrade...

4) Studio Monitors. Now this I have no idea of what to take.  Since I'm in a low budget and I don't need really loud monitor speakers what do you guys recommend?

5) Headphones. I have an AKG K-66 at home. Would that suffice?

6)Lastly, which would be much cheaper? a 2-in interface (USB,firewire or PCI) connected to a 4-in mixer. Or plainly, a 4-in interface? Or Probably an all-in-1 such as the Lexicon Omega?

Phew!!! I hope you guys can help me out on this. :)
Music is an art of expressing one's self...

Offline starfugger

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« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2006, 09:01:58 AM »
1.  you need at least four simultaneous recording tracks at a time.  you can use at least 4 mics for your drums -- kick, snare, floor, toms.  im not sure about behringer products but they say they have a firewire interface coming out. Price: roughly 5K.

note that you shouldn't plug in the mics directly in your interface unless your interface comes with mic preamps.  dedicated mic pre's can be expensive, so it's either you purchase behringer pre's (7k, the cheapest) or purchase a small mixer with four built-in  mic preamps.

if you are recording with your band, you can either dedicate the four interface inputs to the four mics (kik, snare, toms, floor) so that you are able to mix each part separately (this can make a world of difference), or plug in the four mics in a mixer, mix the drums down to a stereo track, and then record that stereo mix thru 2 of your interface's line inputs. you can record bass and guitar amp using the other two inputs.

if you intend to use all four interface inputs on all four drum mics (which i highly recommend), you can directly plug in the guitars into your mixer to create a monitor mix (just a guide for the drummer and not to be recorded).  this monitor mix should not leak into the four interface inputs at any time. proceed to record other parts when you're done with the drum tracks.

2. if budget is limited, get an sm 57 for the snare, a large diaphragm condenser for toms/overhead (there are some that sell under 10K), a large diaphragm dynamic for the floor tom, and another large diaphragm dynamic for the kick (akg d112 or a shure beta 52).  this is how i've done my drums for years, panning floor hard left, and condenser hard right to create a pseudo stereo mix.  for the budget, it works quite effectively.

3.  a mixer with four mic pre's, four inserts, and aux sends would be a very convenient addition.  the controller is a luxury if budget is limited.

4.  i have used my old aiwa speakers for the longest. the thing is i know how they sound.  i think that's what's most important, to familiarize yourself with your monitor speakers and know how theybehave in your room. i also use different headfones to check for abnormalities in the mix. but if budget permits, get a pair of studio grade monitors as these will reveal your errors better than home speakers, and some say they're less tiring on the ears.  i'm getting professional monitors as well now that i am upgrading.  there are M-audio bx5, bx8, then the KRK monitors, then the mackie too. contact crystal audio for m-audio stuff. contact mark lacay for mackie and and KRK monitors.

5.  my favorite headfones to date are a pair of chinese made computer headfones (i have several brands).  the bass is rich and the mids are quite hyped.  they're not really very honest but they are not muddy like my other headphones. what's important is you know how these headphones sound on most music more or less.  i used to have an AudioTechnica ATH FS (professional studio grade headphones) that conked out on me a few years ago.  they cost around 5k. now i'd rather keep the 5k, use chinese-made earphones and still get good results :) (just make sure they are not muddy like a lot of other cheap cans).

6. um...

hope this helps!
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Offline KitC

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« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2006, 01:19:22 PM »
@noteworthy

You should be aware that some soundcards do not go well with SATA drives. M-Audio in particular does not play well with SATA. Try using an IDE drive for your OS and audio data.

You did not indicate your motherboard. Some soundcards absolutely hate the pcie bus and pcie video card, especially high powered video cards. Audio cards also NEED to be assigned their own unshared IRQ. The paucity of unshared IRQs in pcie mobos can be cause for a lot of hairpulling.
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Offline hnaungayan

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« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2006, 01:18:53 PM »
mga sir.. ok din bang gamitin pang recording ung zoom g2.1u?

Offline abyssinianson

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« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2006, 03:38:00 PM »
my DAW has 2 SATA drives that I use as the main 2 drives for making music. they seem to work well with the 1010 under Nuendo and Cubase SX. I can't speak much for SX 2 or 1 since I skipped upgrading to those but the SATA works well under XP using SX 3 and Nuendo 2. I think it comes down to your motherboard chipset integrating well with the program itself. I built an AMD based machine for someone else which was not only a total pain but the GForce chipset was incompatible with the SATA based system he was looking to get.

I stuck with Intel all this time because the integration for such systems are much more bug free than the AMD variety which is just getting into the mainstream 64 bit arena.
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Offline KitC

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« Reply #64 on: March 05, 2006, 09:01:20 PM »
Part of the SATA problem stems from the use of Silicon Image SiL 31XX chipsets found on a lot of motherboards, both Intel and AMD.  This chipset sits on the pci bus instead of communicating directly with the Northbridge. M-Audio seems to have a known problem with this configuration and some users have worked around the Sil chip by using a SATA pci card which uses a different chipset. I don't do SATA for now which is why I don't have any audio related problems. In any event, the MSI Neo2 Platinum mobo I'm using right now has been cleared for SATA by most DAW users, I'm just not taking any chances yet.
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Offline notEworthy27

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« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2006, 04:52:36 AM »
bwahaha I'm freaking lost...dumudugo na ilong ko....


anyway, MSI RS480M2 ang motherboard ko...hmmm...

So far no problems with the computer...everything is working fine...I guess the only question now is whether the soundcard I'm upgrading to will be compatible.

What does the mic pre-amp do? Doesn't it just give the mics gain boost? The sound card I have right now has the +20db boost. Wouldn't that be enough? Do all sound cards / DAW interface have that boost?

From this point, if pre-amps are really needed...getting a dedicated preamp for the mics would definitely cost more...so for now,  4-in mixer combo (with mic preamps) stereo outputed to a 2-in PCI / firewire interface would be the better option...but then again, if I can make do without the preamps i'd go for the delta 44. If preamps are needed probably the Audiophile 2496 with a mixer. If this is the case then what mixer do you recommend? :) And will a 10k budget go for this part of the DAW?  (soundcard and/or mixer)

Thanks a lot to everyone! :)
Music is an art of expressing one's self...

Offline starfugger

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« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2006, 07:06:08 AM »
10 k for mic pre/mixer and interface? hmmm perhaps if the interface is 2nd hand? there are mixers out there with 2 mic pre's that sell for 4k plus.  but u need 4 right?  try hunting for second hand units.

about mic preamps, maybe this will help:

http://www.tweakheadz.com/microphone_preamps.htm

a question for abyssonian and KitC.  im not very familiar with hard disk recording (will be shifting from the roland vs-840 to hard disk recording via RME fireface800), will i need your SATA drives?  what are SATA drives really?  i gather they are not the same as IDE.  what's the difference? will it affect the speed and number of simultaneous recording tracks if i get SATA?  thanks.
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Offline KitC

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« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2006, 12:29:51 PM »
Quote from: notEworthy27

anyway, MSI RS480M2 ang motherboard ko...hmmm...

So far no problems with the computer...everything is working fine...I guess the only question now is whether the soundcard I'm upgrading to will be compatible.

What does the mic pre-amp do? Doesn't it just give the mics gain boost? The sound card I have right now has the +20db boost. Wouldn't that be enough? Do all sound cards / DAW interface have that boost?


Hmmm... the new Radeon chipset. Relatively untried for DAW use. I think it might go well with SATA although, to be be honest, you will now be our beta tester for this particular chipset. I have read reports that the new Uli chipsets were doing quite well for DAW use as well.

+20 db boost? Sounds like the typical mic input boost on a Soundblaster. While I started my DAW forays with a 'blaster, I'll be honest, a soundblaster just isn't suited for serious DAW work. Not all soundcards have the mic boost, or preamps. Even the 1/8" mic inputs on soundcards aren't standard balanced connections because one of the connections supplies +5VDC to the mic. I don't know if that power can be called phantom power, but phantom power is usually at 48V (I've heard the new european standard is 24v).

Quote from: starfugger

a question for abyssonian and KitC.  im not very familiar with hard disk recording (will be shifting from the roland vs-840 to hard disk recording via RME fireface800), will i need your SATA drives?  what are SATA drives really?  i gather they are not the same as IDE.  what's the difference? will it affect the speed and number of simultaneous recording tracks if i get SATA?  thanks.


SATA drives are part of the new ATA spec; most new motherboards support it. Older IDE drives are now usually known as PATA or parallel ATA while SATA drives are serial ATA. SATA has higher speeds than PATA, the minimum spec now is 150 MB/sec as compared to 133 for PATA, the newer  SATA II goes as high as 300 MB/sec. While it all looks good, some mobo/audio card combinations have proven to be problematic with SATA - one of the reasons I'm still all IDE, but that will change soon as I have done my research.

Hazel, the Fireface is only as good as firewire interface it will connect to. Most mobos use firewire 400 controllers while Gigabyte uses firewire 800 controllers; in particular, Gigabyte uses a Texas Instruments firewire chipset which is purportedly better for firewire. I'd stay away from pcie mobos for DAW work but if you have no choice, use a low powered video card; stay away from the 6800/7800/GTs - video has a nasty way of hogging the pci bus. I'd take a look at RME's Hardware Compatibility Problems to help make life easier.
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Offline starfugger

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« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2006, 10:51:54 PM »
thanks Kit.  Found the rme page very informative.
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Offline abyssinianson

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« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2006, 06:43:03 PM »
right-o, i second the thorough checking for compatibility issues. when I built the NVidia based machine for someone, they didn't know that SATA and NVidia has yet to resolve its compatibility issues. For this reason, I have stuck with ASUS and Abit boards because their support tends to be a lot more up to date as far as integration goes. i've looked into my next upgrade components and I will most likely be going with a 1066 bus Asus board coupled with a GeForce 7800 UNLESS Radeon comes out with a video card capable of dual DVI for my 2 LCD monitors. As of late, Matrox, my previous video card choice, does not offer a card with a big enough bus to keep my video editing from reaching a bottle neck and Radeon has yet to do produce a card that uses 2 digital monitor outs.

Hazel, SATA is not a requirement for DAW's really although it is a tad bit faser than IDE. I figure, since I have had good experiences with my IDE drives, I never did a complete overhaul of my HD components. Sound on Sound magazine did a shootout between E-IDE and SATA a while back and they reported an insignificant margin between both types of drives for music recording. As long as you have robust and dependable drives no slower than 7200 RPM, you should fare well for most video and audio editing tasks. Right now, my system doesn't hang at all with a 4 GB of RAM and 1.2 terabytes of HD space. But just to make sure you don't have an unfortunate hang in the middle of a session, streamline your DAW to use the bare minimum of programs. If you don't use it, chuck it out. I uses a mix of Seagate Barracuda and Hitachi Deskstar drives on my recording rig and they have worked very well.

Good luck on your upgrade, let us know how it turns out.
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Offline starfugger

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« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2006, 07:54:03 PM »
thanks abyssonianson.  well i suppose i'll stick to IDE then (much cheaper).  about the firewire, i couldn't seem to determine the chip on the ones they sell at the local computer shop so i bought one anyway and decided to go the hit and miss route.

everything installed in a jiffy.  very painless.  a lot less painless than getting the us-2400 running (that one required a bit of hair-pulling).  Total Mix DSP seems to be running smoothly.  But the true test would be recording 20 tracks at one time or mixing down.  let's see if my pentium box can handle that.

but ... 4 Gigabytes of RAM?? :shock:  wow.  double wow.  do i need that much? as of now my processor is  2.4 Gig, but im planning to get 3.0 up next month or so.  i was looking at 1 gig ram.  i don' know. maybe i need 2? i usually end up mixing more than 24 tracks  (sometimes 32 up), doing a lot of mics per guitar (around 3-4).  so if there are 4 guitar tracks (which isn't uncommon), the total number of guitar tracks amount to 12-16 sometimes (hairy).

what's your processor?  do you think 2 gig will suffice?

thanks for all your input.

hazel
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Offline abyssinianson

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« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2006, 10:02:03 PM »
by all means, 2 gig should be more than enough especially if you run an audio app only computer. i apologize for the confusion. I was just providing an example based on my machine. I use 4 GB because I do video editing as well as audio recording. 24/ 32 tracks should be OK if you are ruunning 2 GB of RAM.

i've pretty much stuck to using a minimum of 2 mics per guitar because I record direct as well in addition to the mic inputs. i found that i was able to avoid phase problems by using 2 mics at different distances from the cab and then taking advantage of blending the mic mixdown with a DI tone for sharper attack. i admit i am a valve sound nazi of sorts and i try to mic guitars with as much of an "in your face" warm sound as possible. for acoustic stuff, i usually record acoustic guitar in stereo and add a room mike for ambience.

I am actually  in the process of shopping for a Palmer amp cabinet simulator that I will be using to substitute for my usual guitar DI route. I found out about the Palmer after checking out how Joe Satriani records his guitar amps at full throttle without amp cabinets.

I have a Pentium 4 3.2 right now that works well for most of the stuff I am doing. however, the video load I do sometimes provides to be too taxing for my video card which is why I am looking to upgrade soon to a PCI-e 512MB card soon.
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Offline starfugger

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« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2006, 11:21:56 PM »
i see.

palmer? i'll check that one out.  but it's really hard to acquire these botique items anyway. i was looking at a mesa rectifier recording pre but i dont have any means of getting one even if the budget allows.  bummer.

good luck on your palmer. so far i have tested the fireface with nuendo and cubase and whaddayaknow, it works.  i still havent tested the converters yet, just the setup.  so far so good.
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Offline abyssinianson

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« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2006, 01:14:22 AM »
good news that your stuff works. i dont know if people would consider the Palmer cab simulators as boutique stuff since it has very few competitors out there. it is definitely a piece of outboard gear, for sure. the model i am lookingat is the Palmer PDI-03 and the thing, I found out, is found in Germany or something. i haven't found one yet but I will repoprt what it sounds like when I get it.
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Offline Tube

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« Reply #74 on: March 22, 2006, 08:10:02 AM »
Mga sir nice thread here!  :D

Gusto ko sanang magtanong kung pano or anong gadget ang puede sa simple acoustic recording lang. Guitars, percussion box and mic lang ang gamit. Tapos sa PC ang tweeking. I tried a PC mic to know the output pero lakas ng hissing sound/noise.

Any suggestions? Patulong naman po  :lol:
Thanks mga sir!  8)