what is wrong with selling out?

[Metal Gear Solid]

i guess we all have different definitions of selling out.  yours is a worst-case scenario.  i meant selling out in the truest sense of the phrase.  where did you get the notion that selling out means compromising vision and artistic integrity for money, attention and media exposure?  this may be true to some...but not to all.

Well, it's the most accepted definition of selling out. It's not a worst case scenario I suppose. For me, the definition I gave is the holy grail of selling out. The river you can't cross back to. Some may call it the beginning. Alot call it the end.

Where did I get my notion? I'm a metalhead and like alot of people would say..."we have strict codes of conduct and honor" so to speak. Because the music I play is counter culture to begin with. So selling out is betrayal of your purpose. Integrity is a premium as well as creative control. So if my band whores out on product deals that tells us what to do, playing in a TV show with an audience we are not targeting, or kneeling down to the directives of producers, sponsors and record labels...then it is game over. We probably would lose our self respect.

Sure, it's not applicable to some. But hey, I think it is quite noble to stand by integrity, in the truest artistic sense. Plus not selling out gives you that absolute creative freedom that will probably be curtailed when you go for mass consumption. Though, I also think it is not applicable to alot of working class musicians, especially here in our country, I think the mere effort to try not to sell out is laudable and commendable in my book.

[SCREWER]

planned sell out - bon jovi..
unplanned sell out- nirvana..

[Dugs3]

Well, it's the most accepted definition of selling out. It's not a worst case scenario I suppose. For me, the definition I gave is the holy grail of selling out. The river you can't cross back to. Some may call it the beginning. Alot call it the end.

Where did I get my notion? I'm a metalhead and like alot of people would say..."we have strict codes of conduct and honor" so to speak. Because the music I play is counter culture to begin with. So selling out is betrayal of your purpose. Integrity is a premium as well as creative control. So if my band whores out on product deals that tells us what to do, playing in a TV show with an audience we are not targeting, or kneeling down to the directives of producers, sponsors and record labels...then it is game over. We probably would lose our self respect.

Sure, it's not applicable to some. But hey, I think it is quite noble to stand by integrity, in the truest artistic sense. Plus not selling out gives you that absolute creative freedom that will probably be curtailed when you go for mass consumption. Though, I also think it is not applicable to alot of working class musicians, especially here in our country, I think the mere effort to try not to sell out is laudable and commendable in my book.

Dakila ka Metal Gear Solid ! Napaluha ako dun ah ! Hehehe ... Very well said my friend and I have nothing more to add to that !
Wise words from a wise man ...

[obelix]

Where did I get my notion? I'm a metalhead and like alot of people would say..."we have strict codes of conduct and honor" so to speak. Because the music I play is counter culture to begin with. So selling out is betrayal of your purpose. Integrity is a premium as well as creative control. So if my band whores out on product deals that tells us what to do, playing in a TV show with an audience we are not targeting, or kneeling down to the directives of producers, sponsors and record labels...then it is game over. We probably would lose our self respect.

what if yung purpose mo is to earn a living from playing music? eh di hindi selling out yung may product deals.

[Metal Gear Solid]

^Kaya nga I said after that paragraph "it may not be applicable to some". Depende talaga sa purpose at ginagalawan mong eksena. The statement you quoted was a personal insight restricted to my own band and scene.   

You can still maintain integrity and vision while earning a living right? That's why I qualified "product deals that dictate band direction" as the enemy, not product deals alone.

Jeeeez, pangarap ko nga maging endorser ng Jackson guitars e. Hehehe di naman nila ako siguro pakikialamanan sa musika ko...sana. lolz

Basta walang compromise sa music ok na yun. Di ka sell out IMO.

[zach lucero]

^Kaya nga I said after that paragraph "it may not be applicable to some". Depende talaga sa purpose at ginagalawan mong eksena. The statement you quoted was a personal insight restricted to my own band and scene.   

whats the name of your band?

You can still maintain integrity and vision while earning a living right? That's why I qualified "product deals that dictate band direction" as the enemy, not product deals alone.

and since you mentioned tokyo tokyo w/c we endorse...what makes you think we changed our direction for them? that deal came a year after blush was out.

Basta walang compromise sa music ok na yun. Di ka sell out IMO.

so unless you know for sure that there was a compromise...dont judge...

[zach lucero]

hmmm....
selling out...

for me selling out is doing what you dont want to do...for money....
for me selling out can affect all...regardless of genre...


no one can truly judge and say a band/artist sold out due to deals, record sales or change in direction...

music is music, be it intellectual or understood by the masses...
 do what you love to do, thats what matters, if it sells is beside the point and irrelevant....

[zach lucero]

hmmm....
selling out...

for me selling out is doing what you dont want to do...for money....
for me selling out can affect all...regardless of genre...


no one can truly judge and say a band/artist sold out due to deals, record sales or change in direction...

music is music, be it intellectual or understood by the masses...
 do what you love to do, thats what matters, if it sells is beside the point and irrelevant....

[Dugs3]

+ for Mr Lucero... 

There's really nothing wrong with being tagged as a "sell out" ... For me [just my 2 cents] selling out means you're band understands how to incorporate the main genre the band started out playing, while at the same time being understood/appreciated by the masses ... [same banana from previous posts]
Lahat naman ng musicians eh nag go-grow and wants to be appreciated by not just one or a couple of community, syempre gusto mo din ma-recognize ng iba ...

[Stay Defiant]

kailangan ba talagang magpasikat?
probably 80% of population ay mahilig sa mga "pop idol" music at covers. kung magustahan naman ng iba yung musika mo, magtatagal ba sila?

yung true fans niyo ang magsti-stick sa inyo kaisa sa mga tao gusto lang makisali sa eksena.

I would rather produce and record my own music than go to a major record label and control my music.
Nagtutugtug ako for the love of music lang talaga at hindi sa pera at hindi magpasikat.

Opinyon ko, kung mahirap man kayo at kailangan kumain at major record label lang talaga ang sagot. mag-handa kayo dahil siguradong control ng record company ang music niyo unless sikat kana at maganda ang talent mo, lalo nasa pilipinas, kailangan din ng record label kumita.

siguro every cd you sell the band gets 5% of it. (baka mali pero ito ang narinig ko sa mga kaibigan ko. Promotion, advertisement, radio/tv appearance kayo ang magbabayad)
ex.
P500 per CD X 5%
= P25 para sa mga banda.

at kailangan nila makabenta ng maraming cd's para makabawi ang record company.
eh kung independent P500 para sa mga banda.

now, to sell out or not to sell out?
*

• kung nag uumpisa pa lang kayo at wala pang self-produced CD o demo lang ang na record niyo. huwag mag-sign sa record label dahil lalo kayong maghihirap unless ang music na tinu-tugtug niyo ay uso ngayon at radio friendly.
• kung may mga small fan base na kayo at may 2 EP's, demos. Ayos lang mag-sign, pero sabihin mo na wala silang control sa music niyo at maraming record label na nag-o-offer sa inyo. kung hindi sila pumayag ilabas lang ang middle finger at punitin ang kontrata

now, you can do whatever you want and make the same or learn from the mistakes you will be making. this is my opinion based on the people that i talked to.
basta sabihin niyo sa sarili niyo, tama ba ang ginagawa ko? satisfied ba?

[zach lucero]

+ for Mr Lucero... 

There's really nothing wrong with being tagged as a "sell out" ... For me [just my 2 cents] selling out means you're band understands how to incorporate the main genre the band started out playing, while at the same time being understood/appreciated by the masses ... [same banana from previous posts]
Lahat naman ng musicians eh nag go-grow and wants to be appreciated by not just one or a couple of community, syempre gusto mo din ma-recognize ng iba ...

not at all...define your premise...if you are ok with doing something you dont want to do...for money ...then float your boat...our definitions are different..thats why this topic is goin nowhere...too many definitions of what a sell out is...that the topic question itself is not answered....

a sellout is not about moving from one genre to another that is more popular, its not about "adjusting a sound"..its not about being "sikat" .remember sell out and the subjective term "baduy" are two totaly different things.

for me its not ok to sell out...to do what you dont want to do for money is a sell out....

case in point as mentioned here.."its about paninindigan" i see that word  a lot...

a lot of music purists have day jobs na call center rep...ask them if they like what they do...are they to be labelled a sellout out because theyre  doing a job they dont want for money? think about it...paninidigan indeed...

one cannot define a sellout by genre, or change in directionor status...
one can define a sellout by intention...
and unless you know the artists intentionfor sure...
you cannot judge...


if i dont like a particular job...i wont do it...not for the money...
but if i like what i do...be it a janitor, punk rocker, deathmetal head ,,pop rock musician, call center representative, an april boy clone..or what not...no one can call it selling out...

[Stay Defiant]

kaya nga, kung na-inspire ka ni April Boy. chances are magkakaparehas ang tugtug mo sa kanya. ito ay hindi Sell Out kundi copy cat.

pero kung nagtutugtug kana at medyo marami ng fan base at may CD's, EP, demos, ect. na, tapos biglaan na lang nagbago ang tunog mo kasi ayun ang sabi ng boss/manager/publicist/record label/kaibigan mo, ayan ang sell out.

to me, sell out means changing your music based on someone elses demand.
parang hindi ikaw ang may control ng sarili mong kamay o boses.
sunod sunurin ka sa ibang tao.

[SCREWER]

kaya nga, kung na-inspire ka ni April Boy. chances are magkakaparehas ang tugtug mo sa kanya. ito ay hindi Sell Out kundi copy cat.

pero kung nagtutugtug kana at medyo marami ng fan base at may CD's, EP, demos, ect. na, tapos biglaan na lang nagbago ang tunog mo kasi ayun ang sabi ng boss/manager/publicist/record label/kaibigan mo, ayan ang sell out.

to me, sell out means changing your music based on someone elses demand.
parang hindi ikaw ang may control ng sarili mong kamay o boses.
sunod sunurin ka sa ibang tao.

malamang tama...madalas walang pakialam sa genre ang producer sa sell out, may mga nakilala kami producer dati..He looks classy and intelligent but his knowledge and ideas was very disappointing..."sell" ano paba ang ibang understanding sa word na to..

[Jim Ayson]

I had an interesting chat with Joey Ayala once. He said - I don't think artists "sell out", I think that people "buy in".

[the_godfather]

I had an interesting chat with Joey Ayala once. He said - I don't think artists "sell out", I think that people "buy in".

Haha! Good point from Joey Ayala. I'll have to agree to this.

[alexizmarquez]

Misconception "pag nagsign sa Major label, sinasabi agad nagsell out"

Selling out is when you sign & follow what they say, nawawala ang artist freedom.

There are artists who are being signed as they are, that means they are not selling out... like ex: Urbandub, they signed but did not sell out.

BUT as long as you still love what you are doing, its not selling out.

[insultedgamer]

because you lose integrity and creative control over your music when you sell out.

Hindi rin!!

May mga sell-out na sold out in their own way.!!

 

[BassCog]

Hindi rin!!

May mga sell-out na sold out in their own way.!!

 

I'm actually curious - please expound?

[insultedgamer]

I'm actually curious - please expound?

Sorry Sir...Ano ba kahulugan ng salitang "Expound"? 

[BassCog]

Sorry Sir...Ano ba kahulugan ng salitang "Expound"? 

www.dictionary.com:
–verb (used with object)
1.   to set forth or state in detail: to expound theories.
2.   to explain; interpret.
–verb (used without object)
3.   to make a detailed statement (often fol. by on).


...so...please explain all the ways you know of that a person can sell out, without losing integrity and creative control.

[insultedgamer]

www.dictionary.com:
–verb (used with object)
1.   to set forth or state in detail: to expound theories.
2.   to explain; interpret.
–verb (used without object)
3.   to make a detailed statement (often fol. by on).


...so...please explain all the ways you know of that a person can sell out, without losing integrity and creative control.

Sir next time na lang time na ko eh.

Baka bukas. Abangan!

[insultedgamer]

Ok, I'm back!

Hindi rin!!

May mga sell-out na sold out in their own way.!!

 

Halimbawa, si Artist A. Ang music nya...rock...na may halong novelty. Then sold-out. E'di ayun! Ganun talaga sya eh. 

[BassCog]

Ok, I'm back!

Halimbawa, si Artist A. Ang music nya...rock...na may halong novelty. Then sold-out. E'di ayun! Ganun talaga sya eh. 

so what do you mean sold out? are you saying that even if the music he really likes to play is rock with novelty, that it's a sellout? does that make Weird Al Yankovic a sellout?

That isn't selling out on part of the artist, if that's the case. That's the listener being elitist.

[el dorko]

so what do you mean sold out? are you saying that even if the music he really likes to play is rock with novelty, that it's a sellout? does that make Weird Al Yankovic a sellout?

That isn't selling out on part of the artist, if that's the case. That's the listener being elitist.

+1

[digitalcyco]

"I need to sell CD's to put food on the table."

It's better than prostituting yourself, mugging people, or any other illegal means to earn money.

 

The elitists can..... well say what they want.

But earning money the "selling-out way" is a decent way to make a living.

I'm saying this out of experience. I've worked on commercial jingles and corny political ads in our studio, I even used to play for a show band, and definintely myself being a metalhead has always to take a backseat.