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The Musician Forums => Pinoydrums => Topic started by: marko21 on January 22, 2007, 05:29:05 PM
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Paturo naman kahit anong tungkol sa odd timing. :D
example:
3/4 timing
diba yung 3 ibig sabihin 3 beats sa isang measure/bar? tapos yung 4 meaning quarter notes?
kaya parang 3 na quarters? T__T
:-D
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example:
3/4 timing
diba yung 3 ibig sabihin 3 beats sa isang measure/bar? tapos yung 4 meaning quarter notes?
kaya parang 3 na quarters? T__T
:-D
yes.
a good example of 3/4 time is waltz music.
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3/4 is 3 beats per bar, each beat receives a quarter note
you count it as 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3
to elaborate more on 6/8: 6 beats per bar, each beat receives an eight note value
1 & 2 & 3 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & | 1 & 2 & 3 & |
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kuya pao...pano ang counting sa 3/2?
3 on the hihat and 2 on the bass?
trip ko kasi talaga yung ginagawa ni Vinnie colauita eh
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^^^ 3-2 is concept. its not a time signature :-D
polyrhyhtm na yun. pinagsasabay mo 2 or more different time signatures. check mo na lang dito http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyrhythm
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ahh ganun ba?? thing cleared! thanks pao! :-D
so odd time ang 3/4 6/8 12/16 (teka may 12/16 ba?)
saan ba based ang odd time?
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so odd time ang 3/4 6/8 12/16 (teka may 12/16 ba?)
saan ba based ang odd time?
1. meron lahat yan kaya nga odd hehehe kung hanggang saan kaya mong bilangin. listen to marco minnemann for inspiration on weird stuff like that 15/16 or 23/whatever and he doesnt sound like counting. IMO donati is too weird to even consider as a good example :-D
2. di ko gets yung question. based lang sya sa numbers e. noon inaral ko kaya lang parang useless yung numbers. ang silbi nya lang siguro para maimpress mo yung ibang musikero na "o pre 7/4 yan"
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yung sa #2...kung based ba siya sa simple 4/4 groove or something? :-)
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aahhh parang ganun na nga
portnoy best explains it on his dvd. he breaks it down like that by creating simpler subdivisions like 5/4 would be 4/4 + 1 or 3/4 + 2/4
colauita does that too but a lot more simpler. he just does it in 3's and 2's
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e pag 6 na eight notes, considered as 3/4 pa rin ba sya? :lol:
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mathematically, yes. yung dami ng notes lang naman nagdedetermine kung pwede mong kunin yung least common denominator.
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aahhh parang ganun na nga
portnoy best explains it on his dvd. he breaks it down like that by creating simpler subdivisions like 5/4 would be 4/4 + 1 or 3/4 + 2/4
colauita does that too but a lot more simpler. he just does it in 3's and 2's
Seven Days ah
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lol, what's funny with me is, i can understan syncopated notes and play them pero pag binasa ko na wala na ako, need pro lessons talaga. mahirap ang puro tenga pangsepra. nabibingi na ako. :-(
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aahhh parang ganun na nga
portnoy best explains it on his dvd. he breaks it down like that by creating simpler subdivisions like 5/4 would be 4/4 + 1 or 3/4 + 2/4
colauita does that too but a lot more simpler. he just does it in 3's and 2's
Seven Days ah
hehehe exactly, seven days, the reason why i studied odd time. yun pala 1-2-3-1-2 lang yun
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wow...sumakit ulo ko dun ha...di na ako maka relate...sakit ng brain cells ko tuloy peeves.... :evil:
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aahhh parang ganun na nga
portnoy best explains it on his dvd. he breaks it down like that by creating simpler subdivisions like 5/4 would be 4/4 + 1 or 3/4 + 2/4
colauita does that too but a lot more simpler. he just does it in 3's and 2's
Seven Days ah
hehehe exactly, seven days, the reason why i studied odd time. yun pala 1-2-3-1-2 lang yun
It's a very good song to learn odd time, mahirap pero pag nakuha mo, ang sarap. Sting's Ten Summoner's Tales album (feat. Vinnie C. on drums) has a few odd time songs like Seven Days (5/8), Love is Stronger than Justice, & Saint Augustine in Hell (both 7/8). Sa Mercury Falling album meron din doon
Ok itong mga songs na ito kasi mas madali siya i-interpret, unlike Donati's 13/16 grooves, Minnemann's 15/16, etc. IMO, masyado na magulo at technical for me, parang makina na yung tumutugtog
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aahhh parang ganun na nga
portnoy best explains it on his dvd. he breaks it down like that by creating simpler subdivisions like 5/4 would be 4/4 + 1 or 3/4 + 2/4
colauita does that too but a lot more simpler. he just does it in 3's and 2's
Seven Days ah
hehehe exactly, seven days, the reason why i studied odd time. yun pala 1-2-3-1-2 lang yun
thanks for clearing that up pao :-)
tsk tsk tsk-tsk tsk tsk-tsk tsk tsk-tsk tsk tsk
dug---------dug---------dug----------dug...
naaalala ko tuloy hahaha :-D
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wow :-o
sarap yata pagaralan nyan :-P
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A great way to study and understand odd time signatures is to listen to bands and artists who frequently use odd time signatures in their music. It can be quite fun to count along and figure out the meters that they are playing.
Adding to Sting's Ten Summoners Tales (which bugoy_king mentioned), here are my recommendations of artists and groups that you guys can check out, and examples of some of their songs that use odd time patterns:
Rush - Tom Sawyer (instrumental section and outro run in 7/8), Limelight (lots of parts in 7 and 3), YYZ (main riff in 5), Subdivisions (opening riff in 7), Driven (verses alternating between 7/8 and 6/8)
Soundgarden - Outshined (7/4), Rusty Cage (ending part in 19/4, subdivided into 3-3-5-3-5), New Damage (almost the whole song runs in 9/4), Spoonman (7/4), My Wave (intro riff in 5/4),
Alice In Chains - Them Bones (7/8)
Temple Of The Dog - Pushing Forward Back (in 7/8)
Mr. Big - Green-Tinted Sixties Mind (last part of instrumental section runs in 5/8, then transition back to chorus runs in 4/4 then 3/4)
The following examples use more complex odd time patterns, structures and combinations, but they are worth checking out as well:
Dream Theater - Erotomania (main riff in 5/4), Voices (opening riff in 9/8), Surrounded (in 9/4)
Tool (this band often uses 3,5,9 and 11)
Frank Zappa
Allan Holdsworth
old-school progressive rock groups like Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, etc.
Dagdag pa kayo ng mga artist/song examples. 8-)
By the way, 6 and 12 are not odd time signatures. Why? Because these numbers are even. But depending on how the song is structured, it can be interpreted as an odd time, most commonly in 3.
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3/4....
mas okey kung ganito ang counting mo
1 ta ta l 2 ta ta l 3 ta ta l 4 ta ta
or
123 l 223 l 323 l 423
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pano nyo nalalaman kung ano yung time sig ng isang kanta?
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Here's something about time signatures, from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature
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Dreamtheater is full of odd time signatures, paiba-iba pa.
Erotomania is actually one of their simplest songs already, and it features varying time signatures every certain number of bars. It's a pretty good song to learn, masarap din i-jam, kahit play along.
Weckl's instructional, The Next Step, also discusses odd timing and the approach on how to play them
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Ako di ko pa rin gets ang chorus ng "Circumstances" ng Rush. Hehe.
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lol, what's funny with me is, i can understan syncopated notes and play them pero pag binasa ko na wala na ako, need pro lessons talaga. mahirap ang puro tenga pangsepra. nabibingi na ako. :-(
agree ako sau sir minsan ganyan din ako pero pag binasa na sa nota ang hirap hehehehe
talagang masakit sa tenga lalo na kung pangit headphones mo like wat i use wireless nga pero parang heater sa tenga
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pano nyo nalalaman kung ano yung time sig ng isang kanta?
weird ako e. di ko rin alam kung pano ginagawa nung iba. pero binabase ko sa guitars at bass para makuha yung time signature. hinahanap ko yung common na bagsakan, kung quarters, 8ths or 16ths. tapos papakinggan ko yung repeating chord progression tapos bilang na.
so kung narinig ko na 8th notes yung tipa nung guitars tapos nabiling ko na 7x sya magtipa per chord e di 7/8
minsan naman obvious sa drums lalo kung gamit nya yung hihat or ride to keep time. dun pa lang malalaman mo agad kung quarters, 8ths o 16ths ang beat. tapos bilang ka na lang dun sa bass at snare hanggang sa may mareach ka na odd part or syncopated feel tapos biglang uulit.
medyo tricky sa simula ang pag figure out lalo na kung di mo alam ang quarters, 8ths at 16ths. aral ka muna magbasa ng notes and take time to practice it para mas mabilis mong marecognize yung time signatures
isa pang paraan to practice figuring out time sigs, pakinggan mo yung sample songs na binigay ni drumster tapos bilangin mo. tingnan mo kung akma yung nabilang mo sa indicated time sigs
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pano nyo nalalaman kung ano yung time sig ng isang kanta?
Kailangan mo muna hanapin yung downbeat, or yung "1" ng bar. From downbeat to downbeat, bilang ka kung ilang quarter notes, eighth notes, or sixteenth notes ang isang bar (siyempre mas mahirap bilangin pag 16th notes, mabilis kasi).
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isa pa pala, check nyo yung band na don caballero sa myspace (thanks pmack). subukan nyo figure out yung time sigs nung mga songs.
its a real challenge, pabago bago e. multiple time sigs per song
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Aba pinag-uusapan namin to ni Pmack din kahapon ha.
Tapos ito pa na kakaiba ang timing talaga:
http://www.myspace.com/hellaband
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Aba pinag-uusapan namin to ni Pmack din kahapon ha.
Tapos ito pa na kakaiba ang timing talaga:
http://www.myspace.com/hellaband
... if you like something where zach hill plays drums and has vocals -- check out "the ladies" -- it's a duo with rob crow of pinback (also of physics fame)
http://www.temporaryresidence.com/bands/theladies.php
has a sampler song in that page ...
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Kakadownload ko lang ng bagong album ng Hella kahapon, yung "There's no 666 in Outer Space".
Kumakanta na sila sa mga bagong tracks. :wink:
phfreq, ikaw ba si Jerome ng Rampqueen?
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Kakadownload ko lang ng bagong album ng Hella kahapon, yung "There's no 666 in Outer Space".
Kumakanta na sila sa mga bagong tracks. :wink:
phfreq, ikaw ba si Jerome ng Rampqueen?
hindi ko pa napapakinggan ung bago pero malamang nga may vocals na kasi I think hella is now a four piece
ay, hindi po ako si Jerome ng Rampqueen ...
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Ah sayang, itatanong ko pa naman kung paano ginagawa yung 16s sa hats habang gumagawa ng 4/4 groove sa ride, snare at bass.
Five-piece na ang Hella. Click mo to para madownload mo ang bagong album nila: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=23O1W9YL :wink:
he he he .. newbie lang po ako kaya hindi ko masasagot yang tanong sa drums :-) pero si johnny rabb, nakikita ko ginagawa nya alternate tip and butt ng stick ang pumapalo sa hihats (stick tip hitting the farther end of the top hat and the stick butt hitting the closer end of the top hats) para makagawa pa rin sya ng groove sa ibang drums...
meron din akong nakita na slap stick (hindi ko lang ulit mahanap ung link ngayon). basically ung slapstick ay drum stick na may parang naka-attach (via rubber or something) na short piece of wood na same diameter din nung handle. Parang nag-fa-flap sya. So kapag ginamit dun sa hihats, ang motion is up and down, tatamaan mo yung sa up stroke nung hands, tatamaan mo yung bottom hats, sa downstroke nung hands, tatamaan mo ung top hats... tignan ko kung mahanap ko ulit mamaya ... baka malabo ung pagkaka-explain ko eh :-)
hindi ko din alam kung makukuha nyan ung sound na gusto mong makuha... :-)
ha ha ha.. 5pc na pala... astig ung mga albums ng hella. kakatawa pa ung mga covers... meron ako nung hold your horse is, b$#$% aint s$$# but good people, and church gone wild/chirpin hard
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Ah, kasi dati, napanood ko Rampqueen, tinutugtog nila yung kanta nilang "Blank", tapos isang end lang ng stick ang gamit niya.
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Ah, kasi dati, napanood ko Rampqueen, tinutugtog nila yung kanta nilang "Blank", tapos isang end lang ng stick ang gamit niya.
he he he... sana mahanap natin si jerome ng rampqueen para sya na mismo magsabi :-)
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Sir sana makatulong to jaz check this website daming lessons d2 may tabs and midi for u to listen on the beat
3/4
http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Intermediate&SubCategory=Odd%20Time%20Signatures&LessonID=Intermediate11
5/4
http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Intermediate&SubCategory=Odd%20Time%20Signatures&LessonID=Intermediate12
6/4
http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Intermediate&SubCategory=Odd%20Time%20Signatures&LessonID=Intermediate24
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nice link brother...cheers
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Soundgarden - Outshined (7/4), Rusty Cage (ending part in 19/4, subdivided into 3-3-5-3-5), New Damage (almost the whole song runs in 9/4), Spoonman (7/4), My Wave (intro riff in 5/4),
Thing about Matt Cameron is, he doesn't count mathematically. He just follows how the guitar riff goes, and the result is some odd things that sound real cool. I think this is a good approach to drumming odd times if you don't like to think about all that math. It might also make you more sensitive to what the other guys in the band are doing... this way, your band's sounds tighter.
Another way to think about it is how Indian perc players interpret a percussive phrase. They just determine a phrase semantically, or through words.... say, "DUBEMDARABADOPODOP-BOPBOPBOP".... and base a percussive loop from that, without really thinking about counting measures and stuff. They just have to be conscious of the overall feel of the "phrase" and where the rest of the band is in it, too.
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Soundgarden - Outshined (7/4), Rusty Cage (ending part in 19/4, subdivided into 3-3-5-3-5), New Damage (almost the whole song runs in 9/4), Spoonman (7/4), My Wave (intro riff in 5/4),
Thing about Matt Cameron is, he doesn't count mathematically. He just follows how the guitar riff goes, and the result is some odd things that sound real cool. I think this is a good approach to drumming odd times if you don't like to think about all that math. It might also make you more sensitive to what the other guys in the band are doing... this way, your band's sounds tighter.
Yes you're right about that, bro inigo. That's one cool thing about Soundgarden. Their music still grooves and flows even if it's in odd time. Last night, after reviewing this thread, I looked for my old MD issue with Matt Cameron's interview. That's their actual approach with their music. They don't play odd-time stuff just for technique's sake. They make sure that it still feels good. And it also helped that Matt can play a little guitar and bass, so he has a better understanding on how to make the music tighter.
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pag tumugtog ka ng 3/4 at 3/8, ano yung pinagkaiba nila?
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good example also is virgil donati mga peeps..
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pag tumugtog ka ng 3/4 at 3/8, ano yung pinagkaiba nila?
3/4 time signature is counted in respect to quarter notes (hence, 4 as the denominator). 3/8 time signature is counted in respect to eighth notes (hence, 8 as the denominator).
So, 3/4 is counted like... 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a...
While 3/8 goes... 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
If it's 3/16, how would that go? You can figure it out... :wink:
How you understood my explanation.
For me, being the drummer in a timekeeping sense, I pay more attention to the time signature's numerator, which represents the number of counts in a measure.
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3/16 - 1 2 3 1 2 3
tama ba?
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Yes marko21, that's right. It's in respect to sixteenth notes. By the way, my examples above, we are assuming that the music is running at a similar tempo.
I hope you understand my explanations. There are some concepts which are quite hard to explain through online forums. :-D
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Yes marko21, that's right. It's in respect to sixteenth notes. By the way, my examples above, we are assuming that the music is running at a similar tempo.
I hope you understand my explanations. There are some concepts which are quite hard to explain through online forums. :-D
yup, it's so hard to encrypt it into sound. ibang-iba talaga pag naririnig mo and i-translate mo sa notes....
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diba sir knwri kng 16/16 yun notes mo.. pwd mo rin siyang gwng 5/4+5/4+4/4+2/4=16/16?...
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That's correct, drummer_boy17. The time signatures that you noted, is that song which has that kind of subdivision? Sounds like one of those progressive rock/fusion tracks.
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ano pong tawag dyan?
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Kelangan magaling ka sa mathematics kung gusto mo mag aral ng odd time joke ni Portnoy :-D
....iniisip ko ngayon kung paano ko mag drums habang may hawak na calculator, bwaaahahahaha! :lol: