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The Music Forums => Jazz and Blues Cafe => Topic started by: progressive_pilipinas on May 16, 2006, 10:19:20 AM

Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on May 16, 2006, 10:19:20 AM
Quote from: progressive_pilipinas

hindi ako nagtutunog jazz pag nagsosolo ako.. talagang ayaw ng pulso ko magtunog jazz,, nakakafrustrate, parang ayaw ko na humawak ng gitara, pano ba kasi? ano ba problema ko sa pagsosolo? hehe..


baby steps muna kiddo - forget about the chords and scales - try to "get" the jazz vocabulary, understand it, internalize it. Don't listen to guitarists first - listen to horn players solos' - analyze the way they phrase their lines.

Try to sing or hum your solos like George Benson or a scat singer. Then pick up your guitar and try to play the music in your head.
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: boyet on May 16, 2006, 02:12:44 PM
Welcome to the club! Sa maga sinabi mo I think you already know some of the vocabulary and the tools for soloing but you have to feel the music. It's like talking, you have to express yourself...you have to breathe and groove while playing. Listen to the horn players how they construct phrases and speak with their lines. Parang sentence din may antecedent and consequent. Plus don't forget to let your lines "swing". Pag di nag swing ang lines mo talagang di ka magtutunog "jazz" 8)

Groove and feel the music! 8)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: markthevirtuoso on May 17, 2006, 12:31:39 AM
I've also just been into jazz lately. Galing din ako ng rock. Medyo mahirap nga. Kailangan lagi kang nakikinig ng various jazz recordings para maisapuso mo yung groove and feel. You have to start to learning the simple basics din. I mean you can't really jump ahead learning Pat Metheny di ba. Syempre kailangan ding may influence ka.

That's all i can share in the meantime. I've got a long way to go to play it properly. :D
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: Chito on May 17, 2006, 02:04:36 AM
Try looking for books or any information on Jazz Improvisation which is one of the main keys to jazz soloing. Listen to jazz greats, John Coltrane, Louis Armstrong, Thelonious Monk, Miles Davis, etc. Although they are not guitar players, you can learn a lot from how they played and did their soloes. Then try to incorporate the ideas into your guitar playing.

Here are links to tutorials and information on Jazz theory and improvisation.

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/
http://www.apassion4jazz.net/
http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-theory.html

Hope that helps and good luck.
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: psychic_sushi on May 17, 2006, 08:51:50 AM
Additionally, you have to learn by osmosis. Listen, listen, listen, then emulate.

The truth is, we have to choose an artist and absorb his style, as a springboard lang. Listen until the lines sound familiar and try to get them under your fingers.

I too, started off as a rocker and made the painfully slow transition to jazz and bop. heck, i stilll struggle today! but the biggest impediment in the transition i learnt was the THINKING.

Rock guitarists think "linear". We identify the key, then run melodies over the changes, seldomly departing from a few scale tones.

Jazz musicians, on the other hand, play with more emphasis on chord tones, substitutions, and are heavily rhythmic ("it don't mean a thing, if you ain't got that swing" hahahaha, very very true!)

here's a (very very) basic practice recipe to help you, i'm gonna spill the beans-

1. try soloing of the standards utilizing ONLY the triad chord tones of each chord change.
2. connect the notes with chromatic tones
3. be STRICT with your time. try swing or bop quarter notes. speed doesn't matter yet, you have that na
4. sing your lines
5. grow a goatee, wear a berret and walk with steady swing feel (just kidding!)

these are just the basics. when i started just using the basic chord tones, i kept thinking about malmsteen! hahahaha! here's another thing you can add to tip no1, which will be your guiding reference FOREVER-

target the 3RD and 7TH interval of every chord at the change. you'll be surprised at the difference this makes. it'll change even your rock approach, and possibly, your entire life, just as it did to mine ;)

for listening reference, i would suggest wes montgomery and tal farlow, but their technique and soul may inspire or scare you. i would suggest that a good guitarist to emulate is jim hall. he says so much using so little, emphasising on "painting" over the changes and has great rhythm. his style is beautiful and artistic. his "Concierto" album can be found at tower records, and features a fantastic band, Chet Baker on trumpet, Paul Desmond on alto saxophone, Sir Roland Hanna on piano, Ron Carter on bass and Steve Gadd. Listen to the interplay, and particularly Hall, Desmond and Chet Bakers lines. art in motion! Chet Baker too, is amazing. I mentioned before somewhere that Hall paints over the changes, while Baker embraces and carresses them.

oh, and propare for more headaches and pain. it can be very frustrating at first, but you'll be surprised that after studying the resources on the net and just listening, one day the circuits will connect and your fluency will accelerate :) good luck!
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: darnel on May 17, 2006, 10:34:23 PM
learning jazz is like learning a new language.. try to buy a lick or a riff book for jazz initially, just to get your feet wet.. then try to make your own variations.. try to get a copy of Jimmy Bruno's No Nonsense Jazz Guitar" , a very good foundation lesson or even the Joe Pass videos

try to transcribe a few easy lines first.. Jim Hall plays doesnt play a lot of notes, but the notes that he chose to to play are very beautiful.. si Charlie Christian din!!  :)

Learn as many standards and bebop heads as you can... learning the melody in different positions is a huge help

dont get hung up on scales and theories... theories are only good if you can apply it in practical situations... Its good that you have a good foundation of theory but it doesnt end there.. If theres one theory na malaking tulong is learning the intervallic relationships of a particular note to a given chord... try also to maximize the utility of the major scale before going into other scales.. sa major scale pa lng dami ka na magagawa

listen, listen, listen... ibabad mo lng tenga mo sa jazz 24/7.. Dun mo lng talaga makukuha yung feel e.. Listen to bass, piano, horn players, even drummers... those guys are way ahead in jazz compared to the average jazz guitar players... mas madami kng matutunan sa pakikinig sa kanila

Finally, Find an artist that inspires you to play.. kahit sino, mapa kapitbahay nyo, basta jazz ang tugtugan






Hope this helps  :)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: rodney vidanes on May 18, 2006, 02:25:17 AM
i agree with them..at tama lang na may basic knowledge tayo ng theory because that's what we need to take off..now we all have the theoretical resources,then we apply it whatever is required of us to do or to deliver to a particular piece.gaya ng sinabi ng isang bro here,sa major scale pa lang ang dami mong magagawang tunog or melody..minsan parang feeling natin limiting sya na major scale lang but actually it's not...when you rely on patterns or scalar exercises,somehow yun at yun lagi mong magagawa at kahit papano you pay less attention sa sound or melody it creates--minsan sa rock or metal your goal is to improve your speed of doing a riff or solo smoothly,technical siya pero it's not the case in jazz.

jazz isnt about angst but it's about soul,it's about you.it involves heartfelt tunes talaga with emphasis on chord changes and improvisational solos na minsan kahit gano kahaba mo gusto depende sa hinihingi ng kanta or depende kung gano kalawak ang freedom ng band.

dont hurry up to sound like jazz with regard to your solos..listen,listen and listen all the time lang..absorb the juices of jazz music inwardly..and before you know it,you're soloing like a soaring horn player.   :)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: psychic_sushi on May 18, 2006, 08:35:14 AM
Quote from: rodney vidanes
i agree with them..at tama lang na may basic knowledge tayo ng theory because that's what we need to take off..now we all have the theoretical resources,then we apply it whatever is required of us to do or to deliver to a particular piece.gaya ng sinabi ng isang bro here,sa major scale pa lang ang dami mong magagawang tunog or melody..minsan parang feeling natin limiting sya na major scale lang but actually it's not...when you rely on patterns or scalar exercises,somehow yun at yun lagi mong magagawa at kahit papano you pay less attention sa sound or melody it creates--minsan sa rock or metal your goal is to improve your speed of doing a riff or solo smoothly,technical siya pero it's not the case in jazz.

jazz isnt about angst but it's about soul,it's about you.it involves heartfelt tunes talaga with emphasis on chord changes and improvisational solos na minsan kahit gano kahaba mo gusto depende sa hinihingi ng kanta or depende kung gano kalawak ang freedom ng band.

dont hurry up to sound like jazz with regard to your solos..listen,listen and listen all the time lang..absorb the juices of jazz music inwardly..and before you know it,you're soloing like a soaring horn player.   :)


right on ;) basic theory is helpful. heck, its the only thing that saves my butt. but, what'll keep everybodies spirit up is to know that most of our jazz demi-gods picked up their style from the street. its the "self-education" from experiences that moulded their style. its all about the interpretation of emotions, all about art. and developing the facility to make your techniques second nature to you, as fluent as speaking, and ultimately, finding your own voice within the babel of jazz voices.

i personally believe that getting your feet wet with books is a fantastic way of getting on the jazz boat. don't worry about the jazz police blowing the whistle on you because you don't sound jazz enough when you solo. (believe me, the jazz police gave my case up to the CIA, hehehe)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: psychic_sushi on May 18, 2006, 08:35:23 AM
Quote from: rodney vidanes
i agree with them..at tama lang na may basic knowledge tayo ng theory because that's what we need to take off..now we all have the theoretical resources,then we apply it whatever is required of us to do or to deliver to a particular piece.gaya ng sinabi ng isang bro here,sa major scale pa lang ang dami mong magagawang tunog or melody..minsan parang feeling natin limiting sya na major scale lang but actually it's not...when you rely on patterns or scalar exercises,somehow yun at yun lagi mong magagawa at kahit papano you pay less attention sa sound or melody it creates--minsan sa rock or metal your goal is to improve your speed of doing a riff or solo smoothly,technical siya pero it's not the case in jazz.

jazz isnt about angst but it's about soul,it's about you.it involves heartfelt tunes talaga with emphasis on chord changes and improvisational solos na minsan kahit gano kahaba mo gusto depende sa hinihingi ng kanta or depende kung gano kalawak ang freedom ng band.

dont hurry up to sound like jazz with regard to your solos..listen,listen and listen all the time lang..absorb the juices of jazz music inwardly..and before you know it,you're soloing like a soaring horn player.   :)


right on ;) basic theory is helpful. heck, its the only thing that saves my butt. but, what'll keep everybodies spirit up is to know that most of our jazz demi-gods picked up their style from the street. its the "self-education" from experiences that moulded their style. its all about the interpretation of emotions, all about art. and developing the facility to make your techniques second nature to you, as fluent as speaking, and ultimately, finding your own voice within the babel of jazz voices.

i personally believe that getting your feet wet with books is a fantastic way of getting on the jazz boat. don't worry about the jazz police blowing the whistle on you because you don't sound jazz enough when you solo. (believe me, the jazz police gave my case up to the CIA, hehehe)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on May 25, 2006, 05:33:14 AM
whew!

that was unbelievable.. thank you guys, yeah i really need to dedicate more of my listening to those jazz artists you all suggested. madami dami yun, i just wish i had more time instead of only about an hour 4times a week to bossa nova, and nothing else. hahaha!

thank you!
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: psychic_sushi on May 25, 2006, 10:04:56 AM
well, its time to follow pat martino's lead and invest in an IPOD or any kind of portable music device. keeps me sane when i commute, i hate it when i'm trapped in the mrt next to noisy folks. i'm careful with what i feed my ears and heasd with. just like food, music has dietary properties that have to be looked into to and considered.... too much love radio is bad for your jazz-health! :D ;)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: Boddhisattva on May 25, 2006, 03:59:44 PM
great discussion!

phrasing is one of the factors that differentiate rock-playing, aside from of course, jazz chords. one thing with phrasing is it could only be learned by taking things to heart. no book tells you how to phrase in a jazz style.

your concerns are also my concern, and the only real way is to study, study, play, play and play. even better is to play with seasoned ones here in this forum. : )
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: mahavishnu on June 13, 2006, 10:43:02 PM
sorry sirs, lost ako hehe. meron akong muni muni na matagal ko na minimunimuni. solid. if i have a basic two chord jazz song, sabhin na natin bossa yung feel. DM7 at Dm7 lang sya for 20 minutes. hehe biro lang. pag DM7 na po ba yung chord kelangan DMajor ang scales na titirahin ko at paglipat na paglipat nysa sa Dm7, eh hahabulin ko naman ang Dminor na scale? kase lalo na po sa fusion at sa mga bossa, napakabilis ng transition ng chords. ang iniisip ko , e necessary ba na sabayan ko ang DMajor na scales pag DM7 na ang feel ng song..? pati pag sa solo. kase po pag nasa rock ho tayo, sobrang safe ka na laruin ung buong D Major , you ll never hit a wrong key, weak note oo, pero never a wrong one.

what struck me nun first timer ako sa jazz, bat may apat na magkakatabing nota sa fretboard ng mokong na to.. yun pala nag iiba ang root chord nung mga scales. gumagalaw sila. tapos naitanong ko, bat pag nasa normal music tayo kelangan ang ganitong pattern G Am Bm C D Em F#. meron po ung usual na interval na kinasanayan ng tenga. Sa jazz po ba totally limitless? pde mo sabayan ng Gm ang GMajor na song, at pde mo sabayan pa ng iba pang chords na katabi lang naman?

at bat nakakabaliw ang bossa? hindi ko mahanap ang akmang scales para dito. sirang sira na ulo ko help hehe. sabi saken kelangan daw marunong ako kumanta. damn.
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on June 14, 2006, 09:24:02 AM
@mahavishnu:

mahilig ka sa bossa? ako din, ahaha, at oo lumilipad ang mga chords sa jazz music, marami kasing factors, kkatuwa. mahilig ako sa bossa sobra.  :)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: mahavishnu on June 15, 2006, 03:21:42 PM
opo sir, pero ang first bossa ko narinig, ay kay ma'am astrud. tapos don ko narinig first time din kumanta ang gtarista't asawa nya si joao.. simula non sinundan ko na ang bossa. tapos nakilala ko ang ama, si jobim. mga tagasulat si vinicius de moraes. at ang taga ihip ng hangin.. si stan getz. hehe. iba ang bossa. kelangan malibog ka. haha oops. seductive yung tamang term. mejo din biased ako kase, i love everything brasil. ciudade de deus na pelikula hehe, jiu jitsu lalo na, ang carnaval ng rio. at ang mga girls sa ipanema. kaya baliw ako sa bossa. gusto ko nga aralin ang portugues ng brasil. ipa kase ang tono neto kumpara sa mother portugues.

nkausap ko nga si sir johnny alegre tungkol sa bossa at mejo napunta kame sa brazilian jazz. grabe daw ang evolution neto at mas nakakapraning ang mga compositions. sobrang exotic kumbaga. sa pilipinas, umm so far iilan pa lang napapanod ko na malupit bumanat ng bossa at samba. isa na jan ang guarana. blue room malupit din dahil may rio flavor,  mejo matt bianco/basia din yun dating. tapos yun isa pang band sa cafe havana, nkalimutan ko na. yung isang banda din sa peninsula malupet hehe. nothing against mainstream artist who tackles bossa, wla lang talaga akong interes o hindi ako sumasaludo sa puro cover or assimilation. tama ba yun term? hehe

hanggang ngayon hindi ko padn alam ang sikreto ng bossa. cguro kelangan ko magkalat ng panganay tulad ni helio gracie.

peace
Title: influence
Post by: jazhombie on June 18, 2006, 02:23:04 AM
i think to be influenced with jazz music, one has to listen to records and tke it as a religious ritual... i mean we should concentrate on every details on wat the record usually portray or played by an artist... we have our own originality, we only need, basically, be first influenced by common cliches, then after concntrate on our own technical originality... what comes on behalf of our own ability will depend on other's judgement if we fit in to, mainstream jazz, trad, fused, blue side of jazz... but remember sometimes what we do, that seemed to be enigmatic or eccentric sometimes gives us genuinity, and sometimes we don't focus on that, and that's when our crisis' begin...

learn, absorb- what will come out...is your own originality... same as coltrane's...
Title: ahhh......
Post by: nardski on June 18, 2006, 02:31:42 PM
think i understand your question..you said you know the scales, modes etc... and a little bit of theory.. ok yun but when you solo it doesnt sound jazz...("jazz feel") i had the same problem before(galing din kc ako sa rock) until a sax player & a trumpet player taught me the "jazz feel" meaning the triplet feel(kasama na din dun yung triplet tie notes)

ex:   sa 4/4 na time signature meron kang walo na eight notes
        {B = 1 eight note}  { ^ = accent }  {b = imaginary note}

sa rock or pop ganito ang normal na pag basa sa music sheet:

     4
     4     B   B             B   B             B  B              B  B
            1   and          2   and          3  and           4  and

sa jazz(swing & Bop) ang pag basa dito ay triplets with accent sa "up" beat or the next note after the down beat:(ang tawag dito ay triplet tie notes)

      4
      4     B  b   B           B  b  B        B  b  B        B  b  B
             1  *   ^           2  *  ^        3  *  ^        4  *  ^

note: remember na yung accent ay lagi sa "up" beat subukan mo ito.....pag walang accent sa up beat at hindi triplet tie ang pag tugtog mo sa mga notes ay hindi mag tutunog jazz yung iyong solo... ewan ko nalang pag hindi nag tunog jazz yung solo mo.. :D gud luck brad!
Title: sorry..
Post by: nardski on June 18, 2006, 02:43:49 PM
sorry dun sa spacing ng mga BB nag mukha tuloy malabo yung pag explain ko.. anyway yung 4/4 dun yung time signature sorry ulit.. :(
Title: Re: ahhh......
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on June 18, 2006, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: nardski
think i understand your question..you said you know the scales, modes etc... and a little bit of theory.. ok yun but when you solo it doesnt sound jazz...("jazz feel") i had the same problem before(galing din kc ako sa rock) until a sax player & a trumpet player taught me the "jazz feel" meaning the triplet feel(kasama na din dun yung triplet tie notes)

ex:   sa 4/4 na time signature meron kang walo na eight notes
        {B = 1 eight note}  { ^ = accent }  {b = imaginary note}

sa rock or pop ganito ang normal na pag basa sa music sheet:

     4
     4     B   B             B   B             B  B              B  B
            1   and          2   and          3  and           4  and

sa jazz(swing & Bop) ang pag basa dito ay triplets with accent sa "up" beat or the next note after the down beat:(ang tawag dito ay triplet tie notes)

      4
      4     B  b   B           B  b  B        B  b  B        B  b  B
             1  *   ^           2  *  ^        3  *  ^        4  *  ^

note: remember na yung accent ay lagi sa "up" beat subukan mo ito.....pag walang accent sa up beat at hindi triplet tie ang pag tugtog mo sa mga notes ay hindi mag tutunog jazz yung iyong solo... ewan ko nalang pag hindi nag tunog jazz yung solo mo.. :D gud luck brad!


hahaha! oo, bro, sinusubukan ko na tong ganitong feel, hehe, galing nga, mejo nag iimprove na ko simula nung first time na ginawa ko tong thread na to.. at ito pa, walang akong tigil sa pagkinig ng bossa. ahahaha.. galing kakatuwa!

mejo nakukuha ko na yung feel sa siste ko, kailngan talaga nasa utak at puso eh, kay angayon sobrang ingat ako sa pinapakinggan o pinapasok na musik sa utak ko, hehe

@mahavishnu.

yeah,  masaya talaga tumugtog ng bossa, parang ang saya saya ng mundo ko, ang peaceful, hehe,  :)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: mahavishnu on June 19, 2006, 07:56:46 PM
bossa? eto ka.. puting buhangin, asul na dagat, nylon na gitara, malamig na serbesa, nasa duyan ka pa. samahan mo pa ng girl from ipanema na pumaparada sa dalampasigan... bossa.
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: psychic_sushi on June 20, 2006, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: mahavishnu
bossa? eto ka.. puting buhangin, asul na dagat, nylon na gitara, malamig na serbesa, nasa duyan ka pa. samahan mo pa ng girl from ipanema na pumaparada sa dalampasigan... bossa.


you're the bossa ;) heheheh

i get hungry when i listen to bossa. and i think of the same stuff, with brazilian bikini models strolling on the beach...
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: mahavishnu on June 20, 2006, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: psychic_sushi
Quote from: mahavishnu
bossa? eto ka.. puting buhangin, asul na dagat, nylon na gitara, malamig na serbesa, nasa duyan ka pa. samahan mo pa ng girl from ipanema na pumaparada sa dalampasigan... bossa.


you're the bossa ;) heheheh

i get hungry when i listen to bossa. and i think of the same stuff, with brazilian bikini models strolling on the beach...


hehe hungry? hungry for those edible bikinis?  8)
Title: bossa
Post by: projectoobe on July 06, 2006, 03:01:25 AM
hey guys i suggest you check out roberto baden powell, hes one of the proponents of brazilian and classical music as well. also luiz bonfa, and one of the first pinoys to do bossa(not really sure), bong penera ("penyera" enye dapat). as for singers, check out Ellis Regina, shes got that sexy throaty voice, amazing
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: jazzbo on July 06, 2006, 09:06:27 AM
Funny, I think its only in the Philippines were the word "Bossa" is used as a form of music. Everywhere else it was referred to as Bossa Nova ("the new beat" I think) which dates back to the 60's ... and ends there. Must be the hyperactive imagination of Sitti's handlers that titled her pop album "Cafe Bossa" (hardly any jazz to speak of in that album).

The term dates back to the early 60's sessions between guitarist Joao Gilberto and saxophonist Stan Getz. Crossed over into pop because of one vocal by Joao's then-wife Astrud Gilberto on "Girl from Ipanema". Astrud has a big career after that. The other big proponent of bossa nova was Sergio Mendes and the Brasil '66. Try downloading songs from Astrud Gilberto and Sergio Mendes during this period (as well as Stan Getz) for a flavor of what the real Bossa Nova sounded.

Bossa Nova itself is rarely used as a term anymore, or probably is in a retro sense. When Bong Penera put up Batucada in the 70's, he referred to his music as "samba". The album to get (if you can find it) is the first Bong Penera album that was relesed on the indie label Penny Rose Record (named after his mom). It was re-released on CD recently, I've seen a few copies in the SM record bars. Again that album has more Brazillian authenticity than Sitti.

But if you're into Brazillian chords and rhythms, check out all the music that has come out since then from that country and totally forget Sitti. I would recommend the recordings of Airto and Flora Purim (for their jazz influences - remember this couple worked with Chick Corea). For composition and arranging, Antonio Carlos Jobim. For the local scene, I'd recommend Nyco Maca who has a great understanding of Brazillian music (and sings in Portugese too).
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on July 06, 2006, 09:50:53 AM
haha.. sitti.   :lol:
Title: sitti ba kamo?
Post by: nashimoto on July 07, 2006, 01:20:07 PM
hmm.. what's wrong with sitti?
i kinda like jazz.. blues.. samba and all that sways moving feet thumpin rythm..
i recently bough a copy of sitti's album.. is it bad or not? im not sure but i kinda like it.. any comments? suggestions?
i wanna try playin blues.. jazz and bossa.. i wish i could learn na asap..
langyang trabaho ko.. after my leave siguradong hindi ko nnman makakalabit ang gitara ko!!!  :?
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: boyet on July 07, 2006, 01:49:49 PM
Quote from: jazzbo
Funny, I think its only in the Philippines were the word "Bossa" is used as a form of music. Everywhere else it was referred to as Bossa Nova ("the new beat" I think) which dates back to the 60's ... and ends there. Must be the hyperactive imagination of Sitti's handlers that titled her pop album "Cafe Bossa" (hardly any jazz to speak of in that album).

The term dates back to the early 60's sessions between guitarist Joao Gilberto and saxophonist Stan Getz. Crossed over into pop because of one vocal by Joao's then-wife Astrud Gilberto on "Girl from Ipanema". Astrud has a big career after that. The other big proponent of bossa nova was Sergio Mendes and the Brasil '66. Try downloading songs from Astrud Gilberto and Sergio Mendes during this period (as well as Stan Getz) for a flavor of what the real Bossa Nova sounded.

Bossa Nova itself is rarely used as a term anymore, or probably is in a retro sense. When Bong Penera put up Batucada in the 70's, he referred to his music as "samba". The album to get (if you can find it) is the first Bong Penera album that was relesed on the indie label Penny Rose Record (named after his mom). It was re-released on CD recently, I've seen a few copies in the SM record bars. Again that album has more Brazillian authenticity than Sitti.

But if you're into Brazillian chords and rhythms, check out all the music that has come out since then from that country and totally forget Sitti. I would recommend the recordings of Airto and Flora Purim (for their jazz influences - remember this couple worked with Chick Corea). For composition and arranging, Antonio Carlos Jobim. For the local scene, I'd recommend Nyco Maca who has a great understanding of Brazillian music (and sings in Portugese too).


+10 This is bassically caused by the ignorance of the people who are just in it for the commercial value and financial success. They don't even care if the terms they use are right or not. All they care about is "selling" without knowing even the history and proper knowledge or background on what they're doing. Sad to say but they're miseducating the people.

What's wrong with Sitti? She should be an image model or maybe some commercial model of some cosmetic products. She's probably good at projecting an image but that's all there is purely superficial.

The problem here in our country is that when you look good visually, physically...some sort of an eye candy....boom! You're a star! You'll probably be discovered and then trained as a singer or an actor, an instant celebrity (having caucasian blood will definitely help, far more important than having "real" talent).

Try to imagine if guys like Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, Ray Charles,Louis Armstrong or Wayne Shorter grew up here in the Philippines. They'll probably die selling taho or pushing cart shouting "Bakal, bote, dyaryo!
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: namida on July 07, 2006, 03:16:43 PM
me needs to learn jazz... me wants to :)
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: jazzbo on July 07, 2006, 03:20:11 PM
Gee did I come down too harsh on Sitti fans? :) I hope not. Well she is certainly a very pretty girl. The tunes are nice cover tunes, and she has a pleasant enough voice. Not a great voice, but pwede na. And the album is so popular that I hear it in the background of enough cafes, upscale bookstores, furniture stores and elevators.  I was in Powerbooks for a few hours looking for a book on Johnny Cash (I just saw Walk The Line on DVD) and they probably played the CD twice in a row. It's light, soothing and unobtrusive. Heck even I have the album (hey, i was curious).

But it pales in comparison to the real Brazillian music, so if you're looking for musical inspiration a little deeper than elevator music, there are many alternatives. Might as well go straight to the source... or for a local artist check out Nyco Maca, who has that Brazillian vibe down pat.

I'm probably kinder than this friend of mine who plays keyboards, who walked into an Odyssey and wondered aloud to the salesgirl who was that girl singing in the background. He thought she was flat. That turned out to be...
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: 3650guy on July 07, 2006, 03:27:10 PM
we have to patronize our own.

sitti's okay.  the album is just a maiden offering, so we'll see what comes next...  at least she is a better alternative than to that "acoustic" crap that
is being spewed out on us..... makes for a refreshing change.....
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: mahavishnu on July 07, 2006, 06:20:23 PM
im sorry to burst your bubble. but shes not our own. she's money making industry's own advocate  8)

oh yeah.. whats up with covers? id rather spend 50 years of my life coming up with like 10 original songs rather than rushing and squeezing in someoneelse's music to complete my maiden album. just an opinion though  8)

oh and i cant find anything jazz about that mishka album.. cept for the COVERS. thats sad. wel at least for me.

my two cents!
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: jazzbo on July 07, 2006, 08:29:33 PM
Quote from: mahavishnu


oh yeah.. whats up with covers? id rather spend 50 years of my life coming up with like 10 original songs rather than rushing and squeezing in someoneelse's music to complete my maiden album. just an opinion though  8)


Hmmm. And where would jazz be without "covering" the standards?

For example:
"Summertime" - as covered by Herbie Hancock and Joni Mitchell
"My Foolish Heart" - as covered by John 'Mahavishnu' McLaughlin
"My One and Only Love" - as covered by John Coltrane
"Someday my prince will come" - as covered by Miles Davis
"Little Wing" - as covered by the Gil Evans Orchestra
"Body and Soul" - as covered by Coleman Hawkins
"Moody's Mood" - as covered by George Benson
"Spain" - as covered by Larry Coryell
"On Green Dolphin Street" - as covered by Chick Corea and Stanley Clarke
"Yardbird Suite" - as covered by Sadao Watanabe

Answer - as far as jazz is concerned, it's all in the *interpretation* and the *improvisation* :-) not necessarily the composition.
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: boyet on July 07, 2006, 11:25:54 PM
Quote from: mahavishnu
im sorry to burst your bubble. but shes not our own. she's money making industry's own advocate  8)


Considering the deep roots of brazillian music I think she'll be better off singing tunes usually sang by show bands. Her voice fits those tunes well.  :wink:

Quote from: mahavishnu
oh yeah.. whats up with covers? id rather spend 50 years of my life coming up with like 10 original songs rather than rushing and squeezing in someoneelse's music to complete my maiden album. just an opinion though  8)

oh and i cant find anything jazz about that mishka album.. cept for the COVERS. thats sad. wel at least for me.

my two cents!


It's OK to include some covers (especially the standards) but you have to make sure that you're doing it with a new arrangement and interpretation and not because you ran out of songs to include in the album.
Title: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: mahavishnu on July 08, 2006, 05:15:16 PM
oops i think i hammered down the "covers" a bit too hard. what i was trying to say is... the only jazz these artists would be able to pin down are covers... but when they try composing or making their own "jazz" singles.. it sounds like your regular showband.

ofcourse with the exclusion of the gifted few.. a handful, theres johnny alegre, bob aves, koyang, aya yuson, joey v of majam and our rare jazz talents during the 70s

so i guess KENNY G IS JAZZ GOD.

sir jazzbo i'll give you +1000000000 for mahavishnu, miles , chick and coltrane =]
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on December 08, 2006, 02:52:43 PM
Awww... go easy on Sitti, guys/gals.

She's one of the good guys.

She's ayt.

c",)
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: nancy brew on December 13, 2006, 04:05:43 PM
ei.

hahaha sir aya, mula pinoyjazz hanggang philmusic na ung sitti talk ah  :-D

Personally? it's Tadao Hayashi's the WAVE together with CHico Hamilton's MYSTERIOUS MAIDEN that caught me ear to look for other stuff (Which obviously has bossa Screaming in your face)

Well it's into is-Bossa-Yes-No-Tama-Mali ung thread na, mapa topic muna..

Familiarize the ear with the almighty ii-V-I (or IIm-V-I for some) progression. Helps a lot in coming up with lines that are away from the usual 'safe' lines..  :-)


Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on December 17, 2006, 09:23:51 AM
eh, ako yung knight in shining armor ng queen of bossa, eh.  :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: borgy on December 31, 2006, 03:46:20 PM
sige sir aya. ako naman yung horse. HIYYYAAAA!!! :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: nancy brew on January 08, 2007, 10:48:12 AM
EI....yay!

naunahan ako sa horse. cge ako ung taga linis ng lance mo sir Aya hahaha!

Happi New Year Forumites. :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: frogfunk on January 15, 2007, 10:17:39 AM
cge ako ung taga linis ng lance mo sir Aya hahaha!

So that makes you a squire, bro. Puwede rin shield bearer.  :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: nancy brew on January 16, 2007, 09:43:59 AM
ei.

yup sir. squire..fender. un. fender squire! hehehe

mukhang ma OT na naman tayo dhil sa knighthood ni Sir Aya  :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: CARABAO on February 06, 2007, 12:32:53 AM
man.. this thread is really helpful. keep em coming! i wanna learn jazz too :)
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on February 06, 2007, 12:57:34 AM
whoa! this thread is still alive?  :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: nancy brew on February 06, 2007, 09:04:34 AM
ei.

oo nga, buhai pa!

Want to add sumthing too, nlimutan ko.

In the area of phrasing, momentarily break free (or at least try to)  from the usual 16th notes pattern and phrase like conversing. Ung parang nagsasalita - iba ibang accent and at some points rushed some points malumanay - then don't forget the rests. Notes are silver, rests are gold, 'ika nga.

You'll find the results more composed and thematic.
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: polar on February 13, 2007, 01:24:27 PM
Marami akong natututunan mga sir.
Binabasa ko lang mga post nyo.
Punong puno ng mga aral. Ang husay.
Sana meron pa... :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: polar on February 14, 2007, 11:29:38 AM
mas marami ka matututunan when you transcribe the solos of the masters. study their approach to harmony. gayahin mo din lines nila. eventually you'll develop your own style. also keep on improving your improv even though people think you sound like say sonny rollins.

hope this helps.  :-)

Cge sir gagawin ko yan :-).
Salamat.

Sir diba sax player yan si sonny rollins? Mahirap ba gayahin sa gitara yung mga linya ng sax?


Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on February 14, 2007, 11:30:52 AM
Mahirap.  :cry:

Kaya nga nasisira buhay ko, eh.

Pero nung nakuha ko na kung papaano mag-sweep pick, medyo dumale.

 :-)
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on February 14, 2007, 11:32:17 AM
aya!!! haha panood ko band mo kaninang umaga sa myx mga 3am. haha! sarap ng jam niyo! argh!
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on February 14, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
alin to? yung wdouji sa show ni lourd?
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: frogfunk on February 14, 2007, 12:27:21 PM
OT @aya_yuson: When you formed Wdouji, was Coco Bermejo your drummer ever since? Was Wdouji able to play with Majam on occasion? If yes, when were those occasions? Thanks!  :-)
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on February 14, 2007, 02:37:27 PM
alin to? yung wdouji sa show ni lourd?

yup.. yung woudji..


hindi ka lang pala pogi sa personal, maging sa tv, photogenic ka. ahahaaaay!  :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: nancy brew on February 15, 2007, 09:03:42 AM

 Refrain din po from repeating patterns (e.g. 3 notes per string scale patterns) if you want to sound "jazzy."   :-)

Agree po, bro fuse. Holdsworth uses 4 notes per string.

meron pa pala. sa Sax emulation, Breathing helps - that is, try to get away from playing run-on lines longer than you can hold your breath. Sax lines are defined by breathing (aside from using the circular breathing trick), kaya mas 'human' yung length ng phrases. Then maximize intervals. Sax players can get away with 4 measures/longer by just playing fifths, octaves and trills hehehe. daya no?  :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on February 16, 2007, 10:41:04 AM
OT @aya_yuson: When you formed Wdouji, was Coco Bermejo your drummer ever since? Was Wdouji able to play with Majam on occasion? If yes, when were those occasions? Thanks!  :-)

Yes, Koko was our drummer from the start.

Nung una, wala pa ako. Sina Koko at Ron T ang nag-umpisa ng Wdouji. Tas sumama ang "The" Simon Tan.

Nung una si Ira Cruz kasama nila. Di ako sigurado kung hanggang jam at ensayo lang sila non o kung nakapag-gig din sila.

Tas nakasama nila si kumpareng Nikki Cabardo (Freestyle keyboardist). Nung naging busy sobra si Nikki sa Freestyle, ako ang kinuha para mag-sub. Two monday gigs lang dapat 'yon.

After the 2nd gig, kinausap ako ni Koko. Tinanong kung gusto kong sumali on a permanent basis. Syempre ang sagot ko, "OO BA!!!".  :lol:

Kaso nagpunta kami ng Freeverse sa San Francisco nang isang linggo. So sabi ko pagbalik ko, game na.

Kampante akong walang bangga sa monday gig ng Wdouji sa Freedom Bar dahil sa buong anim na buwang nakasama ko ang Freeverse (at ang singer nilang si Sailor Moon), ni minsan 'di kami nagkaroon ng gig ng lunes.

Eh, mantakin mo ba namang nung tumotogs na ko sa Wdouji every Monday sa Freedom Bar, nagkaroon ng gig ang Freeverse tuwing lunes.

Pinapili ako ni Celeste.

Eh, mas importante sa kin ang oks na togs kaysa makintab na sapatos (at di ko na talaga matiis si Sailor Moon at ang kanyang p____nanginang dimples, so nag-full-time na 'ko sa Wdouji.

2001 'yon.

Mula n'on hanggang ngayon, di na uli ako tumogs sa showband.

 :-)
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: frogfunk on February 16, 2007, 12:21:26 PM
Eh, mas importante sa kin ang oks na togs kaysa makintab na sapatos (at di ko na talaga matiis si Sailor Moon at ang kanyang p____nanginang dimples, so nag-full-time na 'ko sa Wdouji.

2001 'yon.

Mula n'on hanggang ngayon, di na uli ako tumogs sa showband.

 :-)

Sabi ko na galing ka ng Freeverse e. Sailor Moon, E-hehehehehe!  :-D

Anyway, nakasabay niyo ba ang Majam na tumugtog sa isang venue?
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on February 16, 2007, 03:10:58 PM
Nung nasa Wdouji pa ko? Ewan ko, di ko na maalala. Medyo... parang rollercoaster ride ang buhay ko nung mga sandaling yon, eh. Di ko na maalala, sorry.
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: frogfunk on February 16, 2007, 03:14:39 PM
Nung nasa Wdouji pa ko?

Huh? Wala na kayo sa Wdouji?!  :?
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on February 16, 2007, 03:15:36 PM
Wala na ang Wdouji. Matagal na. Mga three years na ata. Nag-disband kami nung 2004 o 2003.
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: frogfunk on February 16, 2007, 03:41:28 PM
Wala na ang Wdouji. Matagal na. Mga three years na ata. Nag-disband kami nung 2004 o 2003.

Ngih! Paano na? Madami pa naman kayong fans...  :cry:
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on February 16, 2007, 03:46:00 PM
Ewan ko sila, pero ako wala akong fans. Friends meron. Fans wala.

Araw lang ang sumisikat.

I've been playing for twenty years...

... and i still ain't sh_t.

 :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: william251082 on July 10, 2007, 05:51:44 AM
Quote from: progressive_pilipinas
hindi ako nagtutunog jazz pag nagsosolo ako.. talagang ayaw ng pulso ko magtunog jazz,, nakakafrustrate, parang ayaw ko na humawak ng gitara, pano ba kasi? ano ba problema ko sa pagsosolo? hehe..

baby steps muna kiddo - forget about the chords and scales - try to "get" the jazz vocabulary, understand it, internalize it. Don't listen to guitarists first - listen to horn players solos' - analyze the way they phrase their lines.

Try to sing or hum your solos like George Benson or a scat singer. Then pick up your guitar and try to play the music in your head.

2 most important things to keep in mind:
LISTEN AND GROOVE(rhythm)
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on July 18, 2007, 10:59:09 PM
Padagdag lang po...

Actually, the 2 most important things to keep in mind are

SEX

and

THE CITY

 :-P
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: jazhombie on July 19, 2007, 09:22:19 AM
Padagdag lang po...

Actually, the 2 most important things to keep in mind are

SEX

and

THE CITY

 :-P
hahaha..  :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on July 20, 2007, 01:14:49 AM
Padagdag lang po...

Actually, the 2 most important things to keep in mind are

SEX

and

THE CITY

 :-P


ano?? wahaha

seryoso, simula noong pinost ko to kapiranggot lang na improvement ang napansin ko. hehe..

oo nga pala, may naitulong ang bebop major at minor sa akin.. at pag aaral ng mga chord extensions... eh san ba ako papunta? hehehehe :roll:

malaki parin ang probelema ko sa phrasing.
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: william251082 on July 21, 2007, 04:46:45 AM
Padagdag lang po...

Actually, the 2 most important things to keep in mind are

SEX

and

THE CITY

 :-P


ano?? wahaha

seryoso, simula noong pinost ko to kapiranggot lang na improvement ang napansin ko. hehe..

oo nga pala, may naitulong ang bebop major at minor sa akin.. at pag aaral ng mga chord extensions... eh san ba ako papunta? hehehehe :roll:

malaki parin ang probelema ko sa phrasing.

just imitate how ur jazz heroes approach phrasing... listen more
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on July 21, 2007, 05:18:35 AM
yes, listening more is what im trying to squeeze into my tight daily routines.

thanks.

Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: jazhombie on July 21, 2007, 04:06:31 PM
Padagdag lang po...

Actually, the 2 most important things to keep in mind are

SEX

and

THE CITY

 :-P


ano?? wahaha

seryoso, simula noong pinost ko to kapiranggot lang na improvement ang napansin ko. hehe..

oo nga pala, may naitulong ang bebop major at minor sa akin.. at pag aaral ng mga chord extensions... eh san ba ako papunta? hehehehe :roll:

malaki parin ang probelema ko sa phrasing.

just imitate what how ur jazz heroes approach phrasing... listen more
my jazz hero, ate amy! :-D
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: william251082 on July 21, 2007, 04:23:02 PM
Padagdag lang po...

Actually, the 2 most important things to keep in mind are

SEX

and

THE CITY

 :-P


ano?? wahaha

seryoso, simula noong pinost ko to kapiranggot lang na improvement ang napansin ko. hehe..

oo nga pala, may naitulong ang bebop major at minor sa akin.. at pag aaral ng mga chord extensions... eh san ba ako papunta? hehehehe :roll:

malaki parin ang probelema ko sa phrasing.

just imitate what how ur jazz heroes approach phrasing... listen more
my jazz hero, ate amy! :-D

then listen to ate amy!;-)
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: progressive_pilipinas on July 21, 2007, 09:01:43 PM
Padagdag lang po...

Actually, the 2 most important things to keep in mind are

SEX

and

THE CITY

 :-P


ano?? wahaha

seryoso, simula noong pinost ko to kapiranggot lang na improvement ang napansin ko. hehe..

oo nga pala, may naitulong ang bebop major at minor sa akin.. at pag aaral ng mga chord extensions... eh san ba ako papunta? hehehehe :roll:

malaki parin ang probelema ko sa phrasing.

just imitate what how ur jazz heroes approach phrasing... listen more
my jazz hero, ate amy! :-D

then listen to ate amy!;-)

huh?! sinong ate amy? pwede ba akong maki ate sa kanya? hehe. san gig nitong halimaw na ito?
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: ice.lacsina on July 23, 2007, 11:01:15 PM
I was first introduced to jazz when i was still playing bass. pinakinig ako ng mentor ko ng Abe Laboriel. Kaya eto...











Balik major scale songs muna. di ko kinaya eh. :-D :-D :-D

Pero seriously, i started feeling na marunong na ko magjazz ng konti with :

1) syempre listening
2) the "hum". - hum the notes. do something like " lalala-la" or "doo-roo-roo" and let the notes fly. i feel mo lang kahit off-scale.
3) record that and try to listen again.
4) tpos iapply sa guitar. (kapain mo lang kung wala kang introduction to music theory)
5) tapos apply guitar style elements like hammer-ons, pull offs, slides. try different combinations depende parin sa feel.
6) record and listen.

masaya yan. hehe
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: william251082 on July 24, 2007, 06:47:50 PM
also one of the most import thing on learning jazz is to play with other musicians. so get out of ur practice room and play, communicate, listen and groove with other musicians! as soon as u get ur ego out of the way the sooner u'll be a better musician!

check this out!
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,53727.0.html
Title: Re: jazz desperate.. help appreciated..
Post by: aya_yuson on December 30, 2017, 05:08:29 PM
OT @aya_yuson: When you formed Wdouji, was Coco Bermejo your drummer ever since? Was Wdouji able to play with Majam on occasion? If yes, when were those occasions? Thanks!  :-)

First of all, WDOUJI was originally Koko Bermejo, Simon Tan, Ronald Tomas and Ira Cruz.
I was the johnny-come-lately.
Second, we never performed with MAJAM, to my knowledge.