Polyrhythmic Thread

[drummerboy827]

Mga tol, how do you develop polyrhythmic patterns? How do you get the feel of it? How do you develop a good sense of it?

[skunkyfunk]

Mga tol, how do you develop polyrhythmic patterns? How do you get the feel of it? How do you develop a good sense of it?

Buy another brain.  Or two more.  Para madali magpoly's.

[wipeout]

Oo nga bro, nakakabiyak ng utak ang polys!  Kung pwede nga lang bili ng additional!  Haha! 

Mahirap talaga mag poly, kailangan tyagaan.  Unang step ginawa ko for example, 4/3 poly, memorize mo sa utak mo yung melody or yung rhythm ng 3/4 time signature.  Then pag comfortable ka na, pwede mo na i-layer yung 4/4.  It took me 2 weeks para ma tugtog ko sya.  Now I'm experimenting with 5/4 poly.  Pag may foundation ka na sa 4/3, medyo madali na i-apply yung 5/4 pero nakakalito pa rin sa una.  Practice lang talaga.  Nakakatulong din yung i-notate mo yung polyrhythm mo para visually makita mo kung ano ang mga notes at instrument ang nagsasabay tapos i-play mo ng super bagal basta magawa mo ng tama.  Later on pwede mo na bilisan.

[kibohead]

ang sakit sa ulo niyan!!!

[achaka]

nose bleed bro! maybe i would first try to get proffesional help before i do it on my own.. i don't know. i just might. haha!

[el Brutal]

dati pag sunday kahit ung dalawang bands ko ang practisan ko ok lang.. kayang kaya kahit metal pareho,. pero nung nagkaron ako ng band na may banatang poly.. magisa lang un sa saturday session.. maghapon na kami nakaka 2-3 songs lang. tuyot na tuyot ang utak ko!

[intake]

Mga tol, how do you develop polyrhythmic patterns? How do you get the feel of it? How do you develop a good sense of it?

one word...

COORDINATION

 

[prjm14]

meron akong favorite song na may simpleng poly..

ganito lang takbo niya..

3/8,2/8,3/8,3/8.. paulit ulit lang.. pde rin 5/8,6/8... para mas simple...
dun ko natutunan na pde pala magexperiment ng time signature..

pde ring pabagobago ng bilang, mas madali...

parang 12345123456 12345123456...

[wipeout]

Palagay ko magkaiba yung polyrhythm vs odd time signatures.

Polyrhythm - play ka ng isang ostinato pattern, example on your feet in 3/4 time signature then mag layer ka ng 4/4 time signature sa kamay.  Magkasabay sya pine-play at different time signatures.

Odd time signatures - Playing a rhythm in a time signature other than 4/4.  All limbs are following the same time signature, kahit nagbabago ang time signature within a bar.

Correct me if i'm wrong but that's how I understand polyrhythm vs odd time sigs. 

[drummerboy827]

Uhm, it is different. You use the concept of time signatures in polyrhythms.

[ryan_cabalde]

polyrhythm, i think it's more of dividing the time signature.
example: in a 8/8 time sig you can do 3/4 3/4 2/4 to make it 8/8. i think. hehe

odd time is playing 7/8 then 9/8. more on memory however, great if you also use coordination and creativity.

but i still prefer playing it in 4/4 first then, do your creativity at home you can think clearly. less stress.

[ushuaia]

iba ata and polyrhythm sa layered time sig like 3/4 ska 4/4 na magkasabay. yung sinasabi ata ni wipeout eh your just changing the accents kya your playing a 3/4 beat sa loob ng 4/4 but with the same note value. pag 4:3 poly your playing a half note triplet against 4 quarter notes. 4:5 poly play quintuplets against 4 quarter notes. iba din yun sa 4/4 against 5/5 where you play 5 groups of quarters with 4 groups of quarters

[kibohead]

i love polyrythms...mahirap nga lang, pero masarap lalo pag nagawa mo. i agree with wipeouts explanation of a polyrythm, magkaiba ang odd time at metric modulation sa polyrythm.

[prjm14]

Polyrhythm is the simultaneous sounding of two or more independent rhythms.

ay sorry, disregard niyo nalang ung una kong sinabi.. wehehe

nakagawa na pala ako nito minsan by accident, nagsisixteenth triplets ako sa kamay then nag sisixteenths naman ako sa paa.. ganun pala tawag dun....

[meinldrummer]

correct kelangan ng coordination dito. practice lang. ok ito.

[toybitz]

the bigger problem maybe..."how to use polyrhythms..."

there's magic in using them, then...there's chaos too.

Vinnie C, summons polys to employ musicality.  Hirap i-discern if it will benefit the song or not. 

[drummerboy827]

the bigger problem maybe..."how to use polyrhythms..."

there's magic in using them, then...there's chaos too.

Vinnie C, summons polys to employ musicality.  Hirap i-discern if it will benefit the song or not. 

Ya nga, parang before you even play it, you should have a glimpse of what it will sound.

[lateralis]

Painstaking skill.
I look up to musicians who are very good @ this.

[toybitz]

Ya nga, parang before you even play it, you should have a glimpse of what it will sound.

ano yun Ya nga? KaYa nga? or Yeah nga? sorry...

on the topic..

there's this "fake" polyrhythm too...

its an illusion...

eg.

in a 4/4 bar..

play 1 2 3, 1 2 3, than the last 2 quarter notes...1 2.
(bass on 1, snare on 3) (sa 1 2..bass on 1, snare on 2)

[chengbang69]

@toybitz:  kuya patrick!


opinion ko parang mas madali makapag practice ng polyrythm kapag may kasamang accompaniment.. sasabog ata utak ko kapag sabay kong iniisip ung 2 rhythms. unlike kapag may ka-jamming, may outside help ka at nasusubaybayan mo kung tama pa ung pattern na ginagawa ng either hand or feet mo

[toybitz]

@chengbang69:  little brother jemuel!

whatever helps you get better, faster is what you do.  ika nga e, help yourself.

I usually lay it down without any accompaniment, then if ever I hear a music that could possibly benefit from polys, then I incorporate it.

i can't incorporate it in an instant though because of that weird "feeling" you put into the music.  I guess the music should beg for polys to make it easier.

[Riff_6603]

buhayin ko lang ulit yung thread.

Polyrhythms are simple if looked at without the hype IMO. here's a quote from terry bozzio to give you guys the idea of how "polyrhythms" simply work:

A Primer in Polyrhythms:
To understand polyrhythms you have to have a basic understanding of fractions & ratios. For a simple example I’ll use 2 against 3 (which I think most people know the sound of, and is easy to play. This formula will give you the ability to work out any basic polyrhythm. You can use it with any two numbers – like 4 vs. 5, or 7 vs. 3.

First you multiply the two numbers to get the smallest amount of beats that each can divide into: in this case 2×3=6. I’ll represent this as 6 “o’s” – that you can think of as 1/8th notes. o o o o o o

Then you divide the 6 into two groups of three: ( o o o )( o o o ) – and three groups of two: ( o o )( o o )(o o )

If you play this, one will sound 1-2-3 1-2-3 ,and the other 1-2 1-2 1-2.

(o o o)(o o o) (o o o)(o o o)

Right Hand 1 & (or 1-2)

Left Hand 1 2 3 1 a &

(oo)(oo)(oo) (oo) (oo) (oo)

So, this makes a little melorhythm which you can hear and remember.

Each polyrhythm has it’s own little melorhythm like this which you familiarize yourself with & play from each perspective (2 over 3 & 3 over 2).

Once you are able to hear and play these you realize that polyrhythms are not so much the ability to hear two separate rhythms, but the interaction of the two, thought of as one melorhythm (which describes the inter-relationship between melody and rhythm) broken up between limbs (in this case RH &LH) like this: ( together–L-R-L- ).

SEMI OT: there are tons more ideas @terry bozzio's site. the guy's cool not just because he has a freakin huge drumset, but because he makes complicated sounding techniques real simple and easy to grasp. drumming is simple if one would only look at it in a simple perspective.


here's another thread that's somewhat related and worth checking out as well:

Permutation Theory
http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=39880.0

[harugrugrug]

sige buhayin! hehe simplest form of polyrhythm is playing a melody a against melody b..or b against a
one way of playing this is group the notes in two's and three's..
 
3 would be

a-123123123123
b-123412341234

5 would be

a-12345123451234512345
b-12341234123412341234

pero the melody cound be felt as

a-12123121231212312123
b-12341234123412341234

accent the ones..

tapos nyan ipagsiksikan niyo sa 4/4 time signature hehe.polyrhythm,hehe

listen to periphery, ganyan ang concept nila pero nandun pa din yung groove ng pulse..

look for the unreel book of vinnie,dudugo ang ilong niyo,hehe.. polyrhythms at it's finest,the simplest book i think is peter magadini's guide to polythythms.. hehe.. the challenge is to be musical rather than sounding lick a batch of random notes..