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Author Topic: The "deltaslim vs. firemodel55" thread  (Read 14370 times)

Online firemodel55

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« on: August 16, 2007, 03:32:00 PM »
Deltaslim,

First to own talaga ako ng Baker B3 Fire Model which I lent out and shared to Miks in less than a week.  First to own ka rin naman ng Tri-cone di ba?  So whats the fuss about FIRST?

Hindi naman lang ako nagsasabi na "SPECIAL" and "BEST" ang gitara si Cliff Cultreri rin.  Send your guitars to Cliff for him to assess.  Basta alam ko aligned ako with Cliff.  Ikaw nagbabago ka ng taste so you even have no right to criciticize what is considered SPECIAL or BEST because you cannot even define what you want know.  Balikan mo na lang ako in 2 years pag nakadecision ka na sa gusto mo. 

In fact, I can challenge all your deltaslim guitars versus the Baker#55.  Kaso, hindi mo naman aaminin kung mas maganda ang baker.  Talk about GAS, you should talk about it because you are the one who keeps changing gear. 

Stop picking on the Baker#55, if you cannot answer the three questions I asked you.  Courtesy lang po.  Ikaw naman ang nagpapapansin sa thread na ito.   



Offline Poundcake

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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 03:42:08 PM »
Relax lang kayo.  Here is a better way to explain things.

1.  People want to own expensive stuff because in MOST cases, they beat their cheaper counterparts.  Ever wondered why Toyota and nissan never wins against Ferrari during the F1 races?
2.  People want to own expensive stuff because chances are, you'll have more unique stuff.  Status symbol if I may put it correctly.
3.  Expensive stuff = pogi points

Now let us redefine "EXPENSIVE".  I don't understand why people keep yakking that a $3k axe is considered expensive if a violin bow meant for professional use, which is made out of a long plank of wood and horse hair, can cost $2k.



Walang Nissan sa F1 bro :) Mother company lang nila yung andun, Renault :)

Then again, "expensive" is subjective. It's also a touchy subject here in the Philippines that's why there's a "more expensive = macho/pogi points/popular" way of thinking even in gear acquisition. While it's also true that the more expensive products are the ones that sound excellent, it's kind of wrong to maintain this kind of mentality. I think to think that way is shallow. The tone and performance you are getting should be the thing to consider and not the price tag or the prestige of owning such material things.

It's sad that not a lot of musicians here can experience owning expensive guitars, amps and pedals that can deliver the goods but there are also less expensive, yet great-sounding (or at least very workable ) pieces of equipment out there. It's just harder to find them with less funds on hand.

I believe that "delivering the goods" doesn't end with getting the best equipment out there, whether it may be signature or not. It's a must for each musician to get good equipment to potentially sound great but we HAVE to know how to efficiently use that potential to maximize all the money spent on buying them. How do we do that? By practicing and inproving our skills in playing, tweaking and maintaining our beloved instruments. Take for example another music instrument: the human voice. Some are really gifted with the perfect combination of body organs (throat, lungs, diaphragm, esophagus, etc.) to have an excellent singing voice but if those persons don't practice how to effectively control all those supposedly-perfect organs to sing, then those with inferior (but still good) organs who practice properly and observe proper maintenance of their bodies will definitely spew out better sounding notes, falcettos and what-have-you.

Relating it to the thread topic, artists with signature gear endorsements worked their way to get their personal "tone heaven." Merely buying expensive signature or uber-customized equipment won't quite get you there but it's a requirement to get good ones at least and to to have the right tools (e.g. skills) to use them effectively (unless you're contented with playing glorious A5 or open E chords and nothing else). And yes, I maintain my stand that signature guitars, amps and pedals aren't all that and should be subject to the same scrutiny.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 03:46:22 PM by Poundcake »
"The LORD will save me, and we will play my music on stringed instruments all the days of our lives, at the house of the LORD." Isaiah 38:20

Online firemodel55

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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2007, 04:07:08 PM »
Glassjaw,

1) Yes it has a very subtle but noticeable chorus effect which differs from a chorus because it sounds more natural.  How much more?  For me in comparison to other guitars, its between mayroon at wala.  Ito mayroon.  Is it just root or Octave?  Combination of others too.  It just sounds pleasing even on clean.
2) Attack is defined thereby making your playing more defined -- and I don't mean just trebly.  You can make people hear your pick hitting the string if you want. 
3) How many times more louder is defined by how hard you want to pick and how fast or slow you want to bend.  It differs at every fret.  This guitar just does it way more so than others. Punchy and Powerful enough even on a clean amp.  Just for reference, with the Lollars which were not high output, I found myself pulling back and reducing the gain of my amps by 50%.
4) After playing and sustaining a chord, you can immediately shift to a single note riff or lick without being drowned by the remaining sustaining notes/strings of the chord.
5) The bend release is more vocal like the sweep of a good wah wah pedal.
6) When plugged it is not solely the responsiblity of the pickups to balance volume.  Kaya adjustable ang poles ng pickups kasi di mo ma-adjust ang string balance ng kahoy.  It is not just the pickup's reponsibility to balance all strings but rather the wood's.  A pickup is just like a microphone.  Kung acoustic steel string iyan, di ba may mga ibang steel string na mas balanced kaysa iba?
7) May term kami, the Baker#55 embodies the statement "Lazy Man's guitar".  Though I do no believe it is a function of pickups because it still has that property regardless if the pickup is sunk into the cavity or close to the string.  Quality of Wood drives this aspect.
9) I mean that on the upper registers, the strings do not respond as if it were staccato like rather it will still maintain the sustain and richness of the harmonics of the note.   

Rock on too.  I hope my additional statements clarifies things further.  Thanks for the questions.

Offline glassjaw_jc

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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2007, 04:20:11 PM »
ah mali, my #8 if for #9 and #9 should be for #10. But it's ok anyway.

choked upper frets are real pain in the a$$
Surf's Up!

Online firemodel55

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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2007, 04:28:44 PM »
Skunky,

Just to clarify.

1) I dont buy expensive stuff just to beat cheap stuff.  It just happens to be that a lot of expensive stuff beats cheap stuff but not all the time.  I used to have cheap guitars too you know.  In fact, prior to the Baker, your SG is more expensive than all my guitars individually.

2) Unique was hardly in my mind when I bought the baker.  If I wanted unique, then I would have bought an Auserwald. I bought the Baker because of the special recommendation of Ken Volpe and because Gene Baker had such a super duper reputation for craftsmanship and tone.

3) There is no relation about being expensive and pogi because people will not know how much a piece of gear costs when you are on stage.  


Online firemodel55

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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2007, 04:34:17 PM »
Glassjaw,

A magical guitar for me is one where you just don't want to put it down because it sounds so nice hearing it and you cannot stop playing it because it plays like a dream -- almost no weariness at all in your hands.  Also magical because the guitar always comes up with surprises and gives different sounds relative to how you fret and pick the strings.  Finally, for some unexplicable reason, the guitar is inspiring.

Offline vhunter

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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2007, 04:48:56 PM »
SELL ME THE MARSHALL
SELL ME THE MARSHALL
SELL ME THE MARSHALL
 :evil:

Online firemodel55

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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 05:08:07 PM »
vhunter,


Artist endorsed rin ang 25th anniversary di ba?

Give me up to October to decide.

Offline nathanmanansala

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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2007, 05:22:46 PM »
Glassjaw,

A magical guitar for me is one where you just don't want to put it down because it sounds so nice hearing it and you cannot stop playing it because it plays like a dream -- almost no weariness at all in your hands.  Also magical because the guitar always comes up with surprises and gives different sounds relative to how you fret and pick the strings.  Finally, for some unexplicable reason, the guitar is inspiring.
i just realized ang babaw ko pala.

playing guitar itself is inspiring for me. which is why its all i think about. even when i'm at work. or when my boss is giving me "gentle reminders" kasi i was thinking about playing my guitar when i should've been thinking about what i was working on. or eating. or out watching a movie. or during those few minutes right before i fall asleep. and when i wake up in the morning, the first thought that enters my mind is "do i have time to pick up the guitar and play before getting ready for work?" basta. 99% of the time, when i'm not playing guitar, i'm thinking about it. yung remaining 1% is yung blissful moment sa toilet. but guess what? i almost always do my business while reading a guitar mag. :lol:

*sigh* i'm such a geek. i've been playing more than half my life now and ganto pa din ako.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 05:23:59 PM by nathanmanansala »

Online firemodel55

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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 05:28:25 PM »
nathan,

Just like me.  I get up early to go to work so that I don't have to do overtime so I can come home and play the baker. 

Should have sold you my Ibanez Steve Vai JEM777VWH... heh heh  that guitars needs so much inspiration to play.

Online deltaslim

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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 05:29:01 PM »
Deltaslim,

First to own talaga ako ng Baker B3 Fire Model which I lent out and shared to Miks in less than a week.  First to own ka rin naman ng Tri-cone di ba?  So whats the fuss about FIRST?

Hindi naman lang ako nagsasabi na "SPECIAL" and "BEST" ang gitara si Cliff Cultreri rin.  Send your guitars to Cliff for him to assess.  Basta alam ko aligned ako with Cliff.  Ikaw nagbabago ka ng taste so you even have no right to criciticize what is considered SPECIAL or BEST because you cannot even define what you want know.  Balikan mo na lang ako in 2 years pag nakadecision ka na sa gusto mo. 

In fact, I can challenge all your deltaslim guitars versus the Baker#55.  Kaso, hindi mo naman aaminin kung mas maganda ang baker.  Talk about GAS, you should talk about it because you are the one who keeps changing gear. 

Stop picking on the Baker#55, if you cannot answer the three questions I asked you.  Courtesy lang po.  Ikaw naman ang nagpapapansin sa thread na ito.   

Deltaslim,

First to own talaga ako ng Baker B3 Fire Model which I lent out and shared to Miks in less than a week.  First to own ka rin naman ng Tri-cone di ba?  So whats the fuss about FIRST?

Hindi naman lang ako nagsasabi na "SPECIAL" and "BEST" ang gitara si Cliff Cultreri rin.  Send your guitars to Cliff for him to assess.  Basta alam ko aligned ako with Cliff.  Ikaw nagbabago ka ng taste so you even have no right to criciticize what is considered SPECIAL or BEST because you cannot even define what you want know.  Balikan mo na lang ako in 2 years pag nakadecision ka na sa gusto mo. 

In fact, I can challenge all your deltaslim guitars versus the Baker#55.  Kaso, hindi mo naman aaminin kung mas maganda ang baker.  Talk about GAS, you should talk about it because you are the one who keeps changing gear. 

Stop picking on the Baker#55, if you cannot answer the three questions I asked you.  Courtesy lang po.  Ikaw naman ang nagpapapansin sa thread na ito.   


Alex - QUOTE THE POST WHERE I PICKED ON YOU OR YOUR BAKER GUITAR. DO IT. NOW!

If you are referring to the "first/only/special" thing, reread it.  That wasn't directed at you . That was addressed to all GAS sufferers -- the point being, there is no end in sight.  Anybody, including me, who has GAS has a little bit of it in them.  If you took it personally, maybe you have it more than I or others have.  If you read back and read your orig Baker thread, I even complimented your guitar's good qualities. But nothing is perfect, so you can't have your cake and eat it too eh? As for my Tricone thread, too bad you don't find humor in it; many did.

I don't know why you are still harping on about your 3 questions. Selective ka magbasa, you only read on what you can pick on. Pero di mo naman masagot  intelligently ang rejoinders ko.  Reread my earlier post and ANSWER THOSE with your brain not with your ego!

As for your challenge, it is stupid, silly, and useless (since "mas maganda" without context to musical objectives, band setting, etc. is pointless).  But you can't throw down the gauntlet like that at me and get away with it, y'know?   So...

I TAKE UP YOUR CHALLENGE.  Name the place, date, time and I will engage you in a tone shootout. Let's see you play your Baker and I'll play, well, I'll play anything cuz isn't everything else lesser than your Baker? Better yet, let's see you play your Baker in a live band context cuz without any musical context, what is the point of playing guitars?  Para wala kang masabing bias, you name the band.  Let's play with the same band at the appointed day, time, and place.  Let anybody who comes be the judge kung alin ang, as you say, "mas maganda".  Let's record the whole damned thing too and post on soundclick or youtube for all eternity and the world to see.  I am sure you'll come away with your bias and opinion of your Baker intact cuz that's how you are.  But let the others judge for themselves if your Baker is worth what you paid for it and worth the aggravation you cause. 


Alex,

You're out of line.  I've tried to be respectful and courteous IN PERSON (heck, I even came up to you and shook your hand sa gig last Sat) and here sa forum and always tried to help and open your eyes to ways by which you can be more effective in sharing your passion and knowledge, para din mas maintindihan ka ng tao.  I gave you a second chance as a human being but you are making it very difficult for me to treat you in a respectful manner because you don't show any respect to me.  You've been very consistent at being very rude to me and I'm not the only one who notices that.  Ang mali ko, I gave you too much credit.

Offline glassjaw_jc

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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 05:33:48 PM »
oooooohhhhhh.... where are the popcorns!?!?  :evil:


Just adding fuel to the fire...

Minute nuances are nothing unless they can be heard in a band setting and the guitar player is more important than the guitar  :-D








































peace!


choked upper frets are poop :-D
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 05:38:13 PM by glassjaw_jc »
Surf's Up!

Offline nathanmanansala

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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 05:37:34 PM »
nathan,

Just like me.  I get up early to go to work so that I don't have to do overtime so I can come home and play the baker. 

Should have sold you my Ibanez Steve Vai JEM777VWH... heh heh  that guitars needs so much inspiration to play.
ah patay. wala nakong trabaho if i had one of those. doesnt matter how much of a struggle playing the thing is. the struggle is the glory.

i'm not saying i would've been able to afford it though. :lol:

Offline Poundcake

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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 05:54:32 PM »
Calm down, guys. I don't want to lock this thread.
"The LORD will save me, and we will play my music on stringed instruments all the days of our lives, at the house of the LORD." Isaiah 38:20

Online deltaslim

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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 05:55:22 PM »
Ok, this is the post I was referring to. Reposting here in case you didn't read it.  Any thoughts?  :-D


Deltaslim,

So answer the questions with this point in time as reference...   How can you tell me that you know what you want if you keep on changing from time to time?  Its like somebody who stays in college for twenty years trying out all the courses and never accomplishing or making a career during in the 20 years of vacilation.  Besides how can you know what to change unless you know what it is today?

Alex - Let's put it this way. I don't think the subject is important or objective enough for me to bother providing you a detailed answer. :-D  Suffice to say that our knowledge of the world, including tone, keeps on growing.  And that's true for all the different types of guitars because they're all unique instruments, with their own voice.  So, my ideal Strat tone has evolved and will continue to evolve.   My ideal Les Paul tone has evolved and will continue to evolve.  My ideal Tele tone has evolved and will continue to evolve.  It's not people's fault cuz it's epistemological.  Besides, humans know more than they can express.  Some things cannot be expressed or codified!

Well, it takes deltaslim so long to answer.  I cannot blame him because it is a really difficult question to answer specially for someone who changes tastes frequently.

Hehe... I was holed up in Tagaytay conducting a training/workshop for the OPAPP trying to think of better ways to find peace and development in the country, especially in Mindanao. ;-)  Unfrotunately, I am one of those guys who have to work hard (dobol-job pa nga!) to put food on the table for my family, ensure my kids get a good education and we all stay healthy.  And then, maybe, just maybe, I might have leftover money for gear and have time to talk gear and make it appear as if I know what I'm talking about and that my humble knowledge and opinions matter.

Funny, for someone who changes tastes so often he has a number of regrettable gear sold based on his thread, around 6 pieces of gear I think.  As of today, I have no regrets over any of my gear sold in the past 20 years of my guitar playing.

What's funnier is that I don't keep count but you do!

Alex - Just be happpy with your accomplishments and your knowledge and HELP others gain knowledge on tone/gear so that they find what works for THEM.  Open other people's eyes to what's out there. But respect their choices when they don't go for the same things as you do.

Money opens a lot of options but it doesn't ensure better decisions.  A rich dumb guy will have a lot more options but is more likely to get bad tone than a poor but knowledgeable guy with less options.

Speaking of money, I'll go back to real work now... gotta bring home the bacon...


Online firemodel55

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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 05:58:29 PM »
Ooohhh.  Will diffuse kasi galit si Deltaslim.

Deltaslim,

"Una kailangan FIRST to own ka!  Tapos the ONLY one to have one!  And then kailangan the BEST specimen yung iyo!  Tapos ngayon kailangan "SPECIAL" pa!  Waaaaah! "  Thats you pickin on the Baker#55.

Challenge Accepted -- December 31,2007 --- The day before New Year's at Shin's Studio at Tandang Sora.  Band Context:  Jingle on Drums, Lito on Bass, Arie on Guitar and Vocals.  My gear versus your gear.  No sharing.

Now thats settled.  Just because I don't agree with your comments and find you inconsistent with your posts and point that out, you brand me as rude and biased.  Otherwise, I will not comment on any of your other posts until 2008.    Peace.  Let us agree not get into each other's way till then.

Online firemodel55

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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 06:05:36 PM »
Deltaslim,

Will diffuse further.  I was not able to read your earlier post with the longer reply.  Hindi lumabas sa viewer ko.   

Tuloy pa rin December 31, 2007.  Pero private na lang among us.  P800 an hour kina Shin.  Ok lang sa iyo to split?

Online firemodel55

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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 06:08:11 PM »
Deltaslim,

In addition, lets just do gear rotation among the three of us -- Arie, You and I.

Offline vhunter

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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 06:09:19 PM »
SAMA AKO.. ILL PLAY FIRE 59. I SUCK PERO PAG FREE RECORDING IM IN! :D Lol Ksp lang talaga ako... but id love to meet arie and the gang .. he does all my guitars but ive never met him. hahahaha.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 06:11:04 PM by vhunter »

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« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 06:11:27 PM »
Miks,

Can you wait on the Marshall until January 2008 so I can use it forl the shootout?

Online firemodel55

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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 06:12:49 PM »
Deltaslim,

Ok lang ba sa iyo to allow Miks and his band para two different styles?

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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2007, 06:15:50 PM »
Miks,

I dont have enough cabinets.  Need you to bring your 4x12 rectifier and Marshall 4x12.  I can only bring 2x12s.  I dont think I will be configured in time for December.  I can borrow a Randall 4x12 from Dodjie.

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« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2007, 06:25:04 PM »
Ooohhh.  Will diffuse kasi galit si Deltaslim.

Deltaslim,

"Una kailangan FIRST to own ka!  Tapos the ONLY one to have one!  And then kailangan the BEST specimen yung iyo!  Tapos ngayon kailangan "SPECIAL" pa!  Waaaaah! "  Thats you pickin on the Baker#55.

At may # pa ha!  Talagang special!

That's YOU assuming I'm picking on you/your Baker.  I'm picking on the behavior of people like you and me who have GAS.  How come you ommitted the intro ("Ang hirap ng may GAS...") and the last part, "Life is hard; and then we die?" Selective hearing ka talaga e.

Challenge Accepted -- December 31,2007 --- The day before New Year's at Shin's Studio at Tandang Sora.  Band Context:  Jingle on Drums, Lito on Bass, Arie on Guitar and Vocals.  My gear versus your gear.  No sharing.

WTF?!  December?  Ano to, international conference na months in advance?  At new year's eve pa?   Anyway, I accept it!  But don't expect me to stay into the evening. I'd rather spend the holiday with my family cuz it's new year's after all.  Morning or afternoon is not a problem tho.

Let me clarify tho, it's your Baker gtr vs. any of my guitars, as you said in your challenge.  Not just generic "your gear" vs "my gear."  The control variables need to be limited.  Unless, you're trying to pull a fast one. ;-)  In fact, the amps should be the same.

But since that is so far off, I've got an idea, something more realistic and concrete. Let's do a prequel shootout this Saturday evening.  Bring yourself and your Baker to the Blueskrieg gig on Sat sa Club Dredd/Gweilo's sa Eastwood Libis.  Let's jam with Plug or whoever is up there.  Or just have an open jam, I know we can count on the other musicians to join in.  Mas lalong patas since the group and amps will be an unknown variable.

But the Dec 31 thing is still on cuz I keep my word.  After Sat, you'll have time to bond more with your instrument.  Good for you cuz I will have changed guitars several times over by then!  LOL!

Now thats settled.  Just because I don't agree with your comments and find you inconsistent with your posts and point that out, you brand me as rude and biased.  Otherwise, I will not comment on any of your other posts until 2008.    Peace.  Let us agree not get into each other's way till then.

Alex, you didn't just "disagree with my comments".  You did more than that.  Reread your posts and instrospect.  You'll find true peace if and when you don't feel the urge anymore to call people out just because they disagree with you.  You'll find peace if and when you accept that some people (not me) may have better gear and tone than you... may have more knowledge than you... have more patience, grace, and manners than you. 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 06:45:50 PM by deltaslim »

Offline nathanmanansala

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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2007, 06:33:12 PM »
But since that is so far off, I've got an idea, something concrete. Let's do a prequel shootout this Saturday evening.  Bring yourself and your Baker to the Blueskrieg gig on Sat sa Club Dredd/Gweilo's sa Eastwood Libis.  Let's jam with Plug or whoever is up there.  Or just have an open jam, I know we can count on the other musicians to join in.  Mas lalong patas since the group and amps will be an unknown variable.
:lol: pamatay ang amps dun! :lol:

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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2007, 06:38:08 PM »
Deltaslim,

Will diffuse further.  I was not able to read your earlier post with the longer reply.  Hindi lumabas sa viewer ko.   

Tuloy pa rin December 31, 2007.  Pero private na lang among us.  P800 an hour kina Shin.  Ok lang sa iyo to split?

Teka, bakit naging private?  You issue a public challenge and then it becomes a private shootout?  What's wrong with it being open to the public?  Like I said above, see you Saturday night sa Club Dredd at the Blueskrieg gig.  I was man enough to accept your terms on the date/venue/time/band, I hope you're man enough to accept my suggestion too. 


Deltaslim,

In addition, lets just do gear rotation among the three of us -- Arie, You and I.

Why rotate and involve other variables?   You challenged me and I accepted.  The backing-band needs to be stable and constant.  In fact, if possible, we should play through the same amp.  Doesn't matter which amp, Crate or Diezel pa man yan, basta same amp. 


Deltaslim,

Ok lang ba sa iyo to allow Miks and his band para two different styles?

Like I said, let us both play with our guitars with ANY band.  But it would be a treat since I know they are great players in a great band.   So sige, Soul Benders and mik's band.