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The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 19, 2006, 10:03:52 PM
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 19, 2006, 10:03:52 PM
Is this US$4100 amp worth the hype? Can this 180 watt monster take down the Peavey JSX in Audiophile paco? Is the 180 watt power section (6 EL 34s), which can be raised to 300 watts by using six 6550s, of this monster capable of projecting its bigness?
First Impressions: Its heavy at 75 .lbs. Has a long chassis which takes two people to carry. This is as long as the old SUNN heads. I don’t think I can gig with this thing. Tolex is black with stainless steel corners, I hope. Smells like Armor All. Chassis color is brushed aluminum grey. It doesn’t look like US$4100. Its pretty mundane with German functionality in mind. The labels are spray painted, not even embossed.
On the positive side, the controls are well laid out and clearly labeled. Pots are not packed and there are so many toggle switches to my amazement are all FETs!!! First time for me to see toggle like switches that FET on any guitar amp.
Day 1 Honeymoon: To summarize, nothing in the Philippines can stand up to what it can do – which is to have three distinct yet great sounding channels (actually four if you count the +/- switch on the 2nd channel) on one amp and yet be flexible. Each of the three channels will beat the majority of single channels and dual channel tube amps out here in terms of clarity, thickness, responsiveness, transparency and just plain good sounding overtones. There is no harshness at all. Walang sinabi ang Fender, Peavey or Marshall. This amp sounds good even at bedroom levels. Its is no joke. The power section is designed to create surround sound.
Things can still change and this amp still has to be tested in a live setting.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 19, 2006, 10:13:14 PM
how do you compare it against your amps in terms of flexibility. say i'm a metal head 3 times a week and van halen nut 3 times a week (day off ko ang sunday). how about the clean? best application?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 19, 2006, 10:22:32 PM
Medyo I have had it for 6 hours pa lang but...
If you are that type, I think this is your amp. Channel 3 does one of the best nu-metal and death. Mas tight ito kaysa sa Bogner Uberschall. May Chug factor at may droning note which is different from the Bogner's droning note.
Channel 2+ plus setting will get you surprisingly the best sounding tricked out marshall and Van Halen siguro around 90%.
Channel 1 clean can beat a majority of fender clean. But more importantly, mayroon highs ng Fender pero may dalang mids ng hiwatt as they claim. The mids really thicken the clean channel -- pwede mag JAZZ and since its 180 watts hindi ka kukulangin sa clean headroom.
I just cannot explain pero may dinadagdag na certain quality ang Diezel na unique voicing talaga.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 20, 2006, 12:53:15 AM
Deym... Congrats on the new purchase sir OASGomez. pasubok naman...kahit isang E powerd chord lang!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 20, 2006, 12:56:16 AM
Quote
Channel 1 clean can beat a majority of fender clean. But more importantly, mayroon highs ng Fender pero may dalang mids ng hiwatt as they claim. The mids really thicken the clean channel -- pwede mag JAZZ and since its 180 watts hindi ka kukulangin sa clean headroom.
that's exactly what i'm looking for! pero i don't need the other 2 channels...meron kayang single channel amp na sobrang ganda ang clean? parang fender + balls? any suggestions?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Bart on March 20, 2006, 12:57:13 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Deym... Congrats on the new purchase sir OASGomez. pasubok naman...kahit isang E powerd chord lang!
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 20, 2006, 12:58:31 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Walang sinabi ang Fender, Peavey or Marshall. This amp sounds good even at bedroom levels..
that's a pretty bold statement considering that probably all the great records were through marshalls and/or fenders.
besides, all amps put out right now are probably all based on a fender and/or a marshall...heck, even jim marshall's first amp was based on the bassman!
Quote
Its is no joke. The power section is designed to create surround sound.
now... why would a guitarist want surround sound?
Quote
Things can still change and this amp still has to be tested in a live setting.
good idea.
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 20, 2006, 01:42:07 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Is this US$4100 amp worth the hype? Can this 180 watt monster take down the Peavey JSX in Audiophile paco? Is the 180 watt power section (6 EL 34s), which can be raised to 300 watts by using six 6550s, of this monster capable of projecting its bigness?
First Impressions: Its heavy at 75 .lbs. Has a long chassis which takes two people to carry. This is as long as the old SUNN heads. I don’t think I can gig with this thing. Tolex is black with stainless steel corners, I hope. Smells like Armor All. Chassis color is brushed aluminum grey. It doesn’t look like US$4100. Its pretty mundane with German functionality in mind. The labels are spray painted, not even embossed.
On the positive side, the controls are well laid out and clearly labeled. Pots are not packed and there are so many toggle switches to my amazement are all FETs!!! First time for me to see toggle like switches that FET on any guitar amp.
Day 1 Honeymoon: To summarize, nothing in the Philippines can stand up to what it can do – which is to have three distinct yet great sounding channels (actually four if you count the +/- switch on the 2nd channel) on one amp and yet be flexible. Each of the three channels will beat the majority of single channels and dual channel tube amps out here in terms of clarity, thickness, responsiveness, transparency and just plain good sounding overtones. There is no harshness at all. Walang sinabi ang Fender, Peavey or Marshall. This amp sounds good even at bedroom levels. Its is no joke. The power section is designed to create surround sound.
Things can still change and this amp still has to be tested in a live setting.
can you get decent tones at bedroom settings? Do you need to crank up the volume to get a really good tone? What kind of sound can you get with this amp? How's the cleans? what brand of EL34s ? What preamp tubes does it come with? Can you describe the dirty channel? wish you can post some clips dude.... you don't have to do anything fancy.
i've heard that amp before used by a really good guitar player here....I wondered if it was just his fingers or was it really the amp.
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 20, 2006, 02:39:16 AM
Quote from: fretburner
Quote from: oasgomez
Walang sinabi ang Fender, Peavey or Marshall. This amp sounds good even at bedroom levels..
that's a pretty bold statement considering that probably all the great records were through marshalls and/or fenders.
besides, all amps put out right now are probably all based on a fender and/or a marshall...heck, even jim marshall's first amp was based on the bassman!
Quote
Its is no joke. The power section is designed to create surround sound.
now... why would a guitarist want surround sound?
Quote
Things can still change and this amp still has to be tested in a live setting.
good idea.
Nice one Fretburner! I guess oasgomes always want to say bold statements.. we all should be used to it na.. tsaka pagbigyan na natin, its a 4100 dollars amp... sayang nga naman, he has to justify the 3000 bucks difference if he had chosen to buy a high end Peavey, Marshall or a Fender.
Oh and Bart, korni nga! nahahawa ka na sa kakornihan ko. hehe
Dami questions ni Dr.Phil!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 20, 2006, 06:03:24 AM
Markflo,
I believe there are other amps out there with better single clean channels e.g. CAA OD100, Victorias, FUCHs, etc. So, I do not discount better Cleans Sounds from other amps. The only thing that I like about this clean channel is that it has its own unique voice and napagsama niya ang high ng Fender at mids ng hiwatt. And talagang malaki ang headroom.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 20, 2006, 06:13:18 AM
fretburner,
Pretty bold statement but remember I am just on my Honeymoon period Day 2. But that being said, I have not heard of any Peavey, Marshall or Fender sound like this. Parang kinuha niya ang "best of" at tinanangal ang "worst of". Classic records nga talaga ang old Fenders and Marshalls and I believe they have their own thing going which this Herbert will NOT duplicate. And I will still continue to collect the boutique versions of Fenders and Marshalls. But...
Diezel is different. It has its own voicing. Parang kung Ferrari at Porsche, biglang nagkaroon ng McLarren.
A little bit of trivia. Diezel actually began by first servicing recording studios. For about a certain time period, hindi siya availaible sa general public. It was actually recording producers and engineers who first bought these amps because they wanted to replace their Marshalls and Fenders in the studios.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 20, 2006, 06:22:37 AM
Phil,
1) More than just decent tones at bedroom settings. But of course, when you crank the thing it sounds bigger. The amp never sounds harsh thru the whole volume range.
2) Will actually test cranking tomorrow in an outdoor area.
3) Sounds: clean all the way to death metal and anything in between. No need for overdrive or distortion pedals which I like because my guitar transparency is maintained plus talagang lumalabas ang tunog ng kamay mo.
4) Cleans are excellent. As i said before, pwede pang Jazz and Pop.
5) Pre-amp and Power amp tubes are RUBYs.
6) There are actually two dirty channels: channel 2 on + setting and channel 3. Channel 2 sounds like the best modded marshall ever which means you can set a lot of gain on this channels too. Notes just jump out at you. Channel 3 is for heavy nu-metal thing and death metal. But surprisingly, it is also good for ultra thick leads. Since we have a swtichable mid boost/cut, you can get a more scooped out sound anytime.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 20, 2006, 06:30:44 AM
Sonnyray,
I actually was choosing between the Diezel and the Komet KF50 limited edition which was more expensive by another US$500. The guys at Ultrasound which carries both amps felts that the Diezel was better for what I want. Of course, this guys, I believe are the best amp experts in the whole wide world at this point in time because they carry all the boutique stuff and surprise surprise carry Marshall and Peavey. In fact, they have Peavey Classic 100s in their studios right beside these boutique stuff. Also, you can only order special Brunos and Komets thru them.
I forgot to mention that the Diezel has a lifetime warranty and that includes both power and output transformers (this I just want to verify because I cannot believe that)!!! Also, the Herbert is MIDI channel switchable, MIDI FX loop switchable (It has three FX loops), MIDI master volume 2 assignable, MIDI mutable, and MIDI Mid Cut/Boost assignable. I just have to learn this stuff and look for a MIDI pedal board.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 20, 2006, 06:45:52 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Sonnyray,
I actually was choosing between the Diezel and the Komet KF50 limited edition which was more expensive by another US$500. The guys at Ultrasound which carries both amps felts that the Diezel was better for what I want. Of course, this guys, I believe are the best amp experts in the whole wide world at this point in time because they carry all the boutique stuff and surprise surprise carry Marshall and Peavey. In fact, they have Peavey Classic 100s in their studios right beside these boutique stuff. Also, you can only order special Brunos and Komets thru them.
I forgot to mention that the Diezel has a lifetime warranty and that includes both power and output transformers (this I just want to verify because I cannot believe that)!!! Also, the Herbert is MIDI channel switchable, MIDI FX loop switchable (It has three FX loops), MIDI master volume 2 assignable, MIDI mutable, and MIDI Mid Cut/Boost assignable. I just have to learn this stuff and look for a MIDI pedal board.
Ahh them Germans, typical.. technical perfectionists .. im sure pamatay and gain channel nyan... just the looks, looks death metal na. Im thinking Rammstein sound!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 20, 2006, 07:26:40 AM
yey! congrats!
180W of all-tube power? if you play a stadium that might be loud enough..
180w at a bar.. :? switchable?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 20, 2006, 07:42:25 AM
Jack in a Vox,
You wont feel the power curve. It projects good tone at any volume -- highly recommended for club use -- no PA needed -- because you have enough power to project cleans. Question now is? How loud can it go.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 20, 2006, 08:29:59 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Phil, 1) More than just decent tones at bedroom settings. But of course, when you crank the thing it sounds bigger.
(at dirty channel) hmmmm.....that I have to hear.....most high gain amps at bedroom levels sounds fizzy and buzzy or really bassy....thus you have to crank it or use a power attenuator.....does it have a master volume then?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 20, 2006, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Sonnyray,
I actually was choosing between the Diezel and the Komet KF50 limited edition which was more expensive by another US$500. The guys at Ultrasound which carries both amps felts that the Diezel was better for what I want. Of course, this guys, I believe are the best amp experts in the whole wide world at this point in time because they carry all the boutique stuff and surprise surprise carry Marshall and Peavey. In fact, they have Peavey Classic 100s in their studios right beside these boutique stuff. Also, you can only order special Brunos and Komets thru them.
I forgot to mention that the Diezel has a lifetime warranty and that includes both power and output transformers (this I just want to verify because I cannot believe that)!!! Also, the Herbert is MIDI channel switchable, MIDI FX loop switchable (It has three FX loops), MIDI master volume 2 assignable, MIDI mutable, and MIDI Mid Cut/Boost assignable. I just have to learn this stuff and look for a MIDI pedal board.
Besides the awesome sound, the midi capability is one of the perks that got me looking towards the Diezel a few years back when I was looking for an amp. My choices were Deizel, Engl or Framus. Just didn't have enough dough to get one :cry:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 20, 2006, 11:17:43 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: oasgomez
Phil, 1) More than just decent tones at bedroom settings. But of course, when you crank the thing it sounds bigger.
(at dirty channel) hmmmm.....that I have to hear.....most high gain amps at bedroom levels sounds fizzy and buzzy or really bassy....thus you have to crank it or use a power attenuator.....does it have a master volume then?
By the way, Phil, I need to try your power attenuator next jam eb with my map. My amp sounds great live and practice but I feel that I'm not getting the full potential when I'm indoors with the volume down. It has master volume but still not the same feel as live loud cranked sound.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 20, 2006, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: oasgomez
Phil, 1) More than just decent tones at bedroom settings. But of course, when you crank the thing it sounds bigger.
(at dirty channel) hmmmm.....that I have to hear.....most high gain amps at bedroom levels sounds fizzy and buzzy or really bassy....thus you have to crank it or use a power attenuator.....does it have a master volume then?
By the way, Phil, I need to try your power attenuator next jam eb with my map. My amp sounds great live and practice but I feel that I'm not getting the full potential when I'm indoors with the volume down. It has master volume but still not the same feel as live loud cranked sound.
sure...thats what its for..... odd though...you have a master volume ...and it doesn't do the trick?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 20, 2006, 02:35:58 PM
haha...the heading for this posting really caught my eye, quite an obnoxious statement. But, hey, thats my opinion and what do I know?
I have to agree with oas on the Diezel, I've got a VH4S and it sounds different. Not better than the Plexis, Soldano SLOs, old and new Mesa Rectifiers or even the Engls, the Framus Dragons or the Bogner Shivas which I really love. Just different. When I listened to the Herbert and the VH4 series, the dirty channels sounded a LOT like a cranked VHT PitBull - angry, loud, with a very heavy tight bottom end. Think Helmet during the Aftertaste sessions. And that was through a Marshall 1960 cab which tends to be on the trebly side!
The Diesels can go plenty loud and breathes pretty well in terms of tonal balance and clarity even at high volumes. I could only crank mine a little past 12 o'clock without making everything near the cabs (a pair of straight Rectifier 4x12s) vibrate like hell.
Its good and nice but overkill in a lot of cases but works wonders when your record with hit for heavier stuff. I STILL enjoy playing through small 2x10 Fender DeVille amps more these days because it doesn't kill my ears as much.
Phil, Stratman...have you tried using the Palmer PDI-03? I found out that Joe Satch uses one of these to run his JSX straight through disc when recording at home. No cabs needed...just plug your amp straight into it. I am kickin myself for not having known about this thing all the time...now, if I can only find one.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 20, 2006, 02:47:09 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Phil, Stratman...have you tried using the Palmer PDI-03? I found out that Joe Satch uses one of these to run his JSX straight through disc when recording at home. No cabs needed...just plug your amp straight into it. I am kickin myself for not having known about this thing all the time...now, if I can only find one.
I think I was looking at that during the time I was having that problem...I took the THD route because the Palmer was not in my budget....I only do this as a hobby. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: toybitz on March 20, 2006, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Jack in a Vox,
You wont feel the power curve. It projects good tone at any volume -- highly recommended for club use -- no PA needed -- because you have enough power to project cleans. Question now is? How loud can it go.
galing niyan Alex ah. hybrid ng iba't ibang klaseng amp. I'm really drooling over that clean sound you're describing.
pagnagtone party...sama ako please.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 20, 2006, 03:16:11 PM
Phil, how is the THD working for you?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 20, 2006, 03:30:34 PM
Phil,
There is a second global assignable Master Volume pot. Based on my limited experience with the Herbert, the master volume really functions like a true master volume because even at low volumes the overdrive still sounds thick. It does not sound thin or fizzy. If master volumes were designed to be this good, I guess we dont need attenuators. I think Mojave Ampworks has something similar.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 20, 2006, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Think Helmet during the Aftertaste sessions.
now this is interesting. the Helmet sound is one of my favorites.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 20, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
Quote from: abyssinianson
Think Helmet during the Aftertaste sessions.
now this is interesting. the Helmet sound is one of my favorites.
one of my favorite heavier sounds too. that and adam jones on lateralus.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 20, 2006, 04:22:01 PM
Helmet is great - heavy and groove oriented. I had the pleasure of seeing them live during the Aftertaste tour and during one of their recent shows with the original lineup. Page still uses the VHT PitBull. On the other hand, Adam Jones does use a Diezel but actually triamps with a Marshall bass head and a Dual Rectifier live. Its not a heavy sound but, rather, an expansive one since he exploits the tonal characteristics of each amp and what they are good at. The setup hasn't changed much between Aenema and Lateralus from what I can remember.
Phil, the THD would be a great alternative to the Palmer, especially because its much cheaper AND has a built in noise reduction system. Sadly, everytime I ask around for one no one ever has one in stock to try out, or order.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 20, 2006, 10:54:35 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
fretburner,
Pretty bold statement but remember I am just on my Honeymoon period Day 2. But that being said, I have not heard of any Peavey, Marshall or Fender sound like this. Parang kinuha niya ang "best of" at tinanangal ang "worst of". Classic records nga talaga ang old Fenders and Marshalls and I believe they have their own thing going which this Herbert will NOT duplicate. And I will still continue to collect the boutique versions of Fenders and Marshalls. But...
Diezel is different. It has its own voicing. Parang kung Ferrari at Porsche, biglang nagkaroon ng McLarren.
well... it should be different. too bad i'm not into that stuff, and so are most of the greatest guitarists.
nwy... you misspelled mclaren. and yes, the malaysian gp is very very boring to say the least. fvck renault!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 21, 2006, 04:56:53 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Phil, how is the THD working for you?
it's working out really well. I use it everyday...everytime I fire up the Legacy and the MTS. When using really high attenuation like -16Db the tone suffers ...it gets bassy...that is why theres a bright and low switch...but in my case I just compensate by changing my amp's EQ....the bright and low switch changes the tone drastically.....it's either too bright or too bassy. I have the 8ohm for my 2x12...I can also use it if I go 4x12.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 21, 2006, 04:58:30 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Phil,
There is a second global assignable Master Volume pot. Based on my limited experience with the Herbert, the master volume really functions like a true master volume because even at low volumes the overdrive still sounds thick. It does not sound thin or fizzy. If master volumes were designed to be this good, I guess we dont need attenuators. I think Mojave Ampworks has something similar.
now that is effin' awesome. ....post some clips... will ya?
here's a friend of mine who recently got a Mesa Mark IV head.....awesome amp....check it out. http://www.oz.net/~markw/markiv_mix.mp3
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 21, 2006, 08:05:45 AM
Phil, your friend purchased a fine amp. Love the Jazz tone too! You don't see very many people still using the Mark IV but it is one heck of a work horse. I've had mine for close to 10 years and it has been through everything. Mesa makes some durable amps, thats for sure.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: buliwyf on March 21, 2006, 12:07:53 PM
meron ako nakita video dati some dude with his herbert, demo nya. too bad i lost the link.
sarap nyan live siguro.. 180W of EL34 Powa! no need to worry about kainis sound engineers taking control of your volume hehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: buliwyf on March 21, 2006, 12:10:20 PM
ah eto yata yun: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6439601805213666365&q=diezel
56K NO!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 21, 2006, 12:35:18 PM
Quote from: buliwyf
ah eto yata yun: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6439601805213666365&q=diezel
56K NO!!
Mark Seal...guitar instructor yan....also an amazing guitar player.
that amp sounds awesome.....gain galore.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 21, 2006, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: buliwyf
ah eto yata yun: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6439601805213666365&q=diezel
56K NO!!
Now, that's sounds great! Nice clean to gain heaven and everything in between. It would be nice to have a Diezel but at the present time, IMHO, i pretty much get the same flexibility, great tone, and heavenly gain from my current setup. It only cost me half of what a Diezel cost.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 21, 2006, 03:46:43 PM
amen - you use what works, man, because in the end, all amps and guitars are tools to get the music out there.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 21, 2006, 04:04:01 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
amen - you use what works, man, because in the end, all amps and guitars are tools to get the music out there.
Yup indeed !
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 21, 2006, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: oasgomez
Phil,
There is a second global assignable Master Volume pot. Based on my limited experience with the Herbert, the master volume really functions like a true master volume because even at low volumes the overdrive still sounds thick. It does not sound thin or fizzy. If master volumes were designed to be this good, I guess we dont need attenuators. I think Mojave Ampworks has something similar.
now that is effin' awesome. ....post some clips... will ya?
here's a friend of mine who recently got a Mesa Mark IV head.....awesome amp....check it out. http://www.oz.net/~markw/markiv_mix.mp3
Now, I like the sound of that amp. Very flexible. Nice clean to grind heavy. I Likes very mucho!!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 22, 2006, 01:46:21 AM
Congrats Alex. Marami ka na namang makukuhaan ng comments hehehe. I find myself lucky to have tested yer amp at least for like an hour or so. I posted this initial review in another forum.
CHANNEL 1 (Clean)
Drop-dead Fender. Something I never expected from a killer-looking head. It really breathes. Responds to your playing. The sad part however is the absence of reverb, which could have been great.
CHANNEL 2 (Mid Gain, Plexi-voiced) There are 2 sub-channels, the (-) and (+) modes, namely.
The (-) mode sounds more like a vintage Marshall Plexi, with more smoothness and an unspeakable pronounced low-mid. Not as much gain for modern rock, but definitely something that competes with a Rivera.
The (+) mode on the other hand sounds more like (-) on steroids. Great articulation, dark but airy sounds that remind me somewhat of a Marshall JCM800, only with a bigger low end and harmonically-rich mids.
CHANNEL 3 (High Gain)
Fat Boogie sound + Marshall grind. Not the most insane gain I was expecting, but it responds very well to palm-muting riffs. The detuned guitars sound very articulate and tight. But do not expect it to be around death metal territory. EDIT: I liked the dash of edge in the sound...
ADDITIONAL CONTROLS
- Has a mid-cut mode (scoop) that I think was made primarily to compensate for different speaker configurations. The mid-cut somewhat took the low-mids from the V30s. Also great when turned on with Channel 3. Somewhat close to old school metal scoop.
- Also has global DEEP and PRESENCE mode where you can adjust the ultra lows and ultra highs to match different pickup configurations.
I'll try converting some of the soundclips I recorded using my cellphone. (AMR format). They're very lo-fi, but somewhat gives you an impression of what the amp can do. When they're ready, I'll post them...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 22, 2006, 06:15:17 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Congrats Alex. Marami ka na namang makukuhaan ng comments hehehe. I find myself lucky to have tested yer amp at least for like an hour or so. I posted this initial review in another forum.
CHANNEL 1 (Clean)
Drop-dead Fender. Something I never expected from a killer-looking head. It really breathes. Responds to your playing. The sad part however is the absence of reverb, which could have been great.
CHANNEL 2 (Mid Gain, Plexi-voiced) There are 2 sub-channels, the (-) and (+) modes, namely.
The (-) mode sounds more like a vintage Marshall Plexi, with more smoothness and an unspeakable pronounced low-mid. Not as much gain for modern rock, but definitely something that competes with a Rivera.
The (+) mode on the other hand sounds more like (-) on steroids. Great articulation, dark but airy sounds that remind me somewhat of a Marshall JCM800, only with a bigger low end and harmonically-rich mids.
CHANNEL 3 (High Gain)
Fat Boogie sound + Marshall grind. Not the most insane gain I was expecting, but it responds very well to palm-muting riffs. The detuned guitars sound very articulate and tight. But do not expect it to be around death metal territory. EDIT: I liked the dash of edge in the sound...
ADDITIONAL CONTROLS
- Has a mid-cut mode (scoop) that I think was made primarily to compensate for different speaker configurations. The mid-cut somewhat took the low-mids from the V30s. Also great when turned on with Channel 3. Somewhat close to old school metal scoop.
- Also has global DEEP and PRESENCE mode where you can adjust the ultra lows and ultra highs to match different pickup configurations.
I'll try converting some of the soundclips I recorded using my cellphone. (AMR format). They're very lo-fi, but somewhat gives you an impression of what the amp can do. When they're ready, I'll post them...
.......so are you the 2nd Diezel Herbert in the Philippines...next to oasgomez?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vinCe-uv7bk on March 22, 2006, 06:41:53 AM
pics naman dyan at sound clips :mrgreen:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 22, 2006, 07:02:58 AM
Day 2 Honeymoon: I discovered that the tone controls cover a wide range. If you tweak one knob, not much difference parang fine tuning lang. If you tweak another knob, suddenly a whole range of difference.
Day 3 Honeymoon: I spent 12 hours at Arie's house. We tested the amp for a straight 9 hours, we just gave it a 1 hour lunch break. Skunky Funk dropped by, so did John Blues and Mel Po. They got to test the amp. The Herbert is now Arie's favorite amp because all three channels sound unique and great. Mel also liked it because it can capture Marshall cranked sounds at ANY volume. I just personally like the amp because of its unique sound character that none of the amps I have heard have. Sulit raw ang gastos and I agree if you really have to gig with one tube amp, this is it despite the weight.
I have not yet tesed the multi-channels amps from FUCHs, Brunetti, Hughes & Kettner, ENGL and even the Mark IV. But I have to say that at this point in time, this is the best sounding multi-channel amp. I have to say that it just simply amazing and nothing and I repeat nothing from Mesa, Marshall, Peavey and Fender has ever impressed me this much.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 22, 2006, 08:50:11 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Day 2 Honeymoon: I discovered that the tone controls cover a wide range. If you tweak one knob, not much difference parang fine tuning lang. If you tweak another knob, suddenly a whole range of difference.
Day 3 Honeymoon: I spent 12 hours at Arie's house. We tested the amp for a straight 9 hours, we just gave it a 1 hour lunch break. Skunky Funk dropped by, so did John Blues and Mel Po. They got to test the amp. The Herbert is now Arie's favorite amp because all three channels sound unique and great. Mel also liked it because it can capture Marshall cranked sounds at ANY volume. I just personally like the amp because of its unique sound character that none of the amps I have heard have. Sulit raw ang gastos and I agree if you really have to gig with one tube amp, this is it despite the weight.
I have not yet tesed the multi-channels amps from FUCHs, Brunetti, Hughes & Kettner, ENGL and even the Mark IV. But I have to say that at this point in time, this is the best sounding multi-channel amp. I have to say that it just simply amazing and nothing and I repeat nothing from Mesa, Marshall, Peavey and Fender has ever impressed me this much.
It's true that it sounds much like a cranked Marshall at any volume. It has some unspeakable linearity as far as power is concerned. My gripe with the amp however, is I wish it had more gain in Channel 3. Another gripe is it is worth $4.1k.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 22, 2006, 11:28:13 AM
how can EL34s sound like Fender Cleans?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 22, 2006, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: oasgomez
Day 2 Honeymoon: I discovered that the tone controls cover a wide range. If you tweak one knob, not much difference parang fine tuning lang. If you tweak another knob, suddenly a whole range of difference.
Day 3 Honeymoon: I spent 12 hours at Arie's house. We tested the amp for a straight 9 hours, we just gave it a 1 hour lunch break. Skunky Funk dropped by, so did John Blues and Mel Po. They got to test the amp. The Herbert is now Arie's favorite amp because all three channels sound unique and great. Mel also liked it because it can capture Marshall cranked sounds at ANY volume. I just personally like the amp because of its unique sound character that none of the amps I have heard have. Sulit raw ang gastos and I agree if you really have to gig with one tube amp, this is it despite the weight.
I have not yet tesed the multi-channels amps from FUCHs, Brunetti, Hughes & Kettner, ENGL and even the Mark IV. But I have to say that at this point in time, this is the best sounding multi-channel amp. I have to say that it just simply amazing and nothing and I repeat nothing from Mesa, Marshall, Peavey and Fender has ever impressed me this much.
It's true that it sounds much like a cranked Marshall at any volume. It has some unspeakable linearity as far as power is concerned. My gripe with the amp however, is I wish it had more gain in Channel 3. Another gripe is it is worth $4.1k.
MOre gain? Really? Hmmm... wonder, wonder. I agree with your # 2 gripe, $4.1K. That's a lot of dough.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 22, 2006, 12:44:45 PM
Why would you want more gains in the second channel? Is it not enough? I would imagine that having more gain requirement would just have one go to channel 3 OR just crank up the volume to saturate the amp. I prefer natural saturation over gain, but thats me. $4K for the amp is a bit much but when I was shopping around for something that eventually brought me to the VH4S, there really wasn't anything that gave me the sound that the Diezel could dish out. Oh well...I still think it is a bit much for an amp head but the MIDI capability had me sold - the less clutter on my pedal board, the better. Besides, its another tool in the box, I think, and the variety between my Mesa stuff does me plenty good. I wouldn't say the thing blew me away either...it was just different and nice; an amp head that I could use for a lot of tones across the board.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 22, 2006, 01:00:56 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Why would you want more gains in the second channel? Is it not enough? I would imagine that having more gain requirement would just have one go to channel 3 OR just crank up the volume to saturate the amp. I prefer natural saturation over gain, but thats me. $4K for the amp is a bit much but when I was shopping around for something that eventually brought me to the VH4S, there really wasn't anything that gave me the sound that the Diezel could dish out. Oh well...I still think it is a bit much for an amp head but the MIDI capability had me sold - the less clutter on my pedal board, the better. Besides, its another tool in the box, I think, and the variety between my Mesa stuff does me plenty good. I wouldn't say the thing blew me away either...it was just different and nice; an amp head that I could use for a lot of tones across the board.
from Mark Seal's clip ...that is enough gain for me....looks like you guys need more time tweeking that amp...if you can't get gains like Mark Seal's clip ...then there is something wrong with your amp.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 22, 2006, 01:23:18 PM
i also watched that mark seal vid. the gain he got from channel 3 was unreal. naka strat pa siya (errr... naka single coils nga ba yun?).
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 22, 2006, 02:03:31 PM
indeed - channel 3 was wayyyyy more than enough gain for anything. i mean pair that amp with either EMG 81s or Bill Lawrence L-500s and that should be more than enough for anything you might need! In fact, I even turn the gain down on my VH4 to get more clarity to cut through. If you arent getting enough oomph out of your Herbert then maybe you need to check the tubes because they might not be saturating properly - check the color of the tubes to see if you have faulty tubes.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 22, 2006, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: fretburner
how can EL34s sound like Fender Cleans?
Riveras can do that. Moreso a friggin' expensive amp like a Herbert can do that too.
I also remember Boogies with EL84s that can nail Fender Clean, only that it would be better paired with Jensens than V30s.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 22, 2006, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Why would you want more gains in the second channel? Is it not enough? I would imagine that having more gain requirement would just have one go to channel 3 OR just crank up the volume to saturate the amp. I prefer natural saturation over gain, but thats me. $4K for the amp is a bit much but when I was shopping around for something that eventually brought me to the VH4S, there really wasn't anything that gave me the sound that the Diezel could dish out. Oh well...I still think it is a bit much for an amp head but the MIDI capability had me sold - the less clutter on my pedal board, the better. Besides, its another tool in the box, I think, and the variety between my Mesa stuff does me plenty good. I wouldn't say the thing blew me away either...it was just different and nice; an amp head that I could use for a lot of tones across the board.
Yeah, abys. Midi capability was one of the perks that I look for in an amp. Less hassle with pedals.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 22, 2006, 04:45:10 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Riveras can do that. Moreso a friggin' expensive amp like a Herbert can do that too.
I also remember Boogies with EL84s that can nail Fender Clean, only that it would be better paired with Jensens than V30s.
im not so sure about that...6L6 cleans are different from EL34 cleans... some would say soldanos have the best of both worlds - fender cleans and marshall crunch - but maybe they're just saying that it can get close to fender cleans... oh well... maybe someone would A/B it with a twin.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 22, 2006, 09:47:47 PM
Fretburner,
I have to support Skunkyfunk on this... the EL34s in the rivera tbr1 really sound more fender than a lot of fenders on the clean channel. Despite the fact that the Diezel Herbert has a circuit that is not really a copy of the classic circuits we know. It for some reason can sound very similar to fender and marshall but not exact because it adds its own Diezel mid which really sounds nice. In the end, it really boils down to channel voicing. The Rivera TBR1SL was the first amp that proved to me that you can get more fender than fender on EL34s.
If there is one thing the Herbert Diezel has proven, it can do things outside of the well accepted norms and conditions we have gotten used to amps. I even dare to say that this is true amp modeling because of the variety of tones and tweaks available. I dont mean it to be amp modeling in a POD or Line 6 way which is really preset timbres but rather dynamics with variable sonic palettes at your fingertips.
On channel 3 gain, I am happy with the amount of gain. We did not get to try a high output humbucker. If we did, I am sure that Skunky Funk would have found the gain sufficient. On the other hand, the uberschall really has more gain but then i really dont know if you would have use for more gain. I seldom get past 12 o clock on the Uberschall and it takes a really special guitar to handle the gain past 12 o clock.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 22, 2006, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Fretburner,
I have to support Skunkyfunk on this... the EL34s in the rivera tbr1 really sound more fender than a lot of fenders on the clean channel. Despite the fact that the Diezel Herbert has a circuit that is not really a copy of the classic circuits we know. It for some reason can sound very similar to fender and marshall but not exact because it adds its own Diezel mid which really sounds nice. In the end, it really boils down to channel voicing. The Rivera TBR1SL was the first amp that proved to me that you can get more fender than fender on EL34s.
why would you compare a rivera to some freak fender with EL34s? fender cleans are 6L6 cleans (if you read my post?).
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 22, 2006, 11:08:31 PM
Fretburner,
For clarification, which freak Fender with EL34s are you referring to in your post?
Soldano SLO100s have sovtek 5881 and not 6L6s. They use to have the Philips ... I forget the exact model before they switched to 5881. Soldano does not care what output tubes you put in the amp. He claims that matched tubes are not even a factor in the circuit. He says its up to you to install your preference but they prefer that you stick with sovtek 5881s as being the most reliable for the SLO100. I dont usually argue with these guys because they made the amp and I just follow their recommendations. The SLO100s clean is NOT fender. Its gain channel is not really marshall. The Rivera TBR1SL with its stock EL34s sound more fender than a lot of fenders. The TBR1SL was designed with EL34s in the circuit. And up to this point it time, remains to be my favorite clean channel followed by the Diezel and Vox AC30 in 2nd place. I forget to mention that the TBR1SL has the best built in reverb in any amp I have tried.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 22, 2006, 11:15:10 PM
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 23, 2006, 12:15:54 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
may switch ba ang fender para 5881/6l6gc to EL34?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 23, 2006, 12:19:28 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
may switch ba ang fender para 5881/6l6gc to EL34?
wala..pero maybe use Yellow Jacket tube converter..magkaiba yung pins ng EL's sa 6L6's e. not sure how it will sound though.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 23, 2006, 01:02:57 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
may switch ba ang fender para 5881/6l6gc to EL34?
wala..pero maybe use Yellow Jacket tube converter..magkaiba yung pins ng EL's sa 6L6's e. not sure how it will sound though.
pero pareng Sonny...kahit na magfit....iba ang daloy ng kuryente para sa EL34 compared to 5881. para bang 110 switch to 220 ba.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 23, 2006, 07:44:37 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
may switch ba ang fender para 5881/6l6gc to EL34?
wala..pero maybe use Yellow Jacket tube converter..magkaiba yung pins ng EL's sa 6L6's e. not sure how it will sound though.
pero pareng Sonny...kahit na magfit....iba ang daloy ng kuryente para sa EL34 compared to 5881. para bang 110 switch to 220 ba.
..eto link ng THD yellow jackets...its a good read. http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/yellow_jacket.htm
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 23, 2006, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Fretburner,
For clarification, which freak Fender with EL34s are you referring to in your post?
uh...dude... i dunno what "your precious" has done to you... but you this:
"The Rivera TBR1SL was the first amp that proved to me that you can get more fender than fender on EL34s."
and yes, 5881s are sturdier 6L6s... they are smaller tubes originally military spec tubes.
and of course, Vox AC30s are the benchmark for EL84 cleans.
so most tonefreaks usually just categorize: fender (6L6) cleans, EL34 cleans and EL84 cleans.
so if your $4100 herbert (perhaps catapulted to fame by richie sambora) would have fender cleans despite having EL34s, maybe you should A/B it with a Twin?
just a suggestion.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 23, 2006, 10:18:02 AM
that would be an interesting test. the twin is one of the most fenderish clean i have heard so far. maybe you can ask someone to record the test and post it so we can also compare.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Poundcake on March 23, 2006, 01:15:18 PM
wow very nice amp you got there oasgomez, it just blew my amp away.. i just love the full, scooped-mid metal sound it can produce :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 23, 2006, 01:17:09 PM
Quote from: VenusIsle_5150
wow very nice amp you got there oasgomez, it just blew my amp away.. i just love the full, scooped-mid metal sound it can produce :)
I definetly DO NOT agree.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Poundcake on March 23, 2006, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: VenusIsle_5150
wow very nice amp you got there oasgomez, it just blew my amp away.. i just love the full, scooped-mid metal sound it can produce :)
I definetly DO NOT agree.
i was being sarcastic hehe :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 23, 2006, 02:15:30 PM
Quote from: VenusIsle_5150
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: VenusIsle_5150
wow very nice amp you got there oasgomez, it just blew my amp away.. i just love the full, scooped-mid metal sound it can produce :)
I definetly DO NOT agree.
i was being sarcastic hehe :)
olrayts. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 23, 2006, 08:01:02 PM
Sir Phil,
Just wondering, what to you is a great sound?
Have you A/Bed a Diezel Herbert versus a Carvin Legacy?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 23, 2006, 08:10:42 PM
Venus Isle,
I never implied that the Diezel Herbert will blow your amp away. I just raised its positive points and I have qualified that nothing by Marshall, Peavey or Fender can touch it as a personal preference/opinion. So, like I said, until you try a Diezel Herbert dont assume it will blow your amp away. I am just saying it does in my experience and it might if you try it.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 23, 2006, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: stratman1
MOre gain? Really? Hmmm... wonder, wonder. I agree with your # 2 gripe, $4.1K. That's a lot of dough.
tcha..kamahal na pala ng Diesel ngayon. ano to per gallon?
pa korni epek lang.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 23, 2006, 08:49:31 PM
i hope you'll forgive me for pointing this out, but...
Quote from: oasgomez
Venus Isle,
I never implied that the Diezel Herbert will blow your amp away. I just raised its positive points and I have qualified that nothing by Marshall, Peavey or Fender can touch it as a personal preference/opinion. So, like I said, until you try a Diezel Herbert dont assume it will blow your amp away.
now that's cool and all... up until the last sentence of the very same paragraph:
Quote
I am just saying it does in my experience and it might if you try it.
so, ano ba talaga?
don't get me wrong. i'm impressed with how Mark Seal demo'ed that amp. kaso halos lahat nalalabuan sa mga sinasabi mo e. and that's putting it mildly.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vinCe-uv7bk on March 23, 2006, 10:46:50 PM
he really ment for you to try it. Oasgomez is trying to stress out that Not all high price/known amps sound good. Based on his experience he is just trying to help us out so that we dnt waste our money on "branded" expensive amps. A big factor also would be the listeners taste. He usualy holds a tone party thing with arie. seriously he's a generous guy. In a way he would let people try out his high end toys for people to understand and get the feel of these high end amps. He is not boasting or showing off that he's rich or has alot of toys but simply he just wants to share his amps. honestly the vox amp 2x12 and the mesa boogie at aries place is actualy Oasgomez amps. its been with arie for over a year already. so peace na mnga tao LOL alah na gulo hOkeh? :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: spankyrigor on March 23, 2006, 10:57:10 PM
.....doesn't james hetfield use a diezel nowadays?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 23, 2006, 11:30:48 PM
Quote from: vinCe-uv7bk
he really ment for you to try it. Oasgomez is trying to stress out that Not all high price/known amps sound good. Based on his experience he is just trying to help us out so that we dnt waste our money on "branded" expensive amps. A big factor also would be the listeners taste. He usualy holds a tone party thing with arie. seriously he's a generous guy. In a way he would let people try out his high end toys for people to understand and get the feel of these high end amps. He is not boasting or showing off that he's rich or has alot of toys but simply he just wants to share his amps. honestly the vox amp 2x12 and the mesa boogie at aries place is actualy Oasgomez amps. its been with arie for over a year already. so peace na mnga tao LOL alah na gulo hOkeh? :lol:
Wala naman sanang problem Vince. maybe just a problem of articulation on Mr.Gomez side. Nandon na tayo na he is voicing out his opinions, but you can do it naman without sounding like youre bragging. take it this way, youre eating your favorite hamburger tapos I came along and say: "Vince, ano ba yang hamburger na kinakain mo,thats [gooey brown stuff] man!?" pero in your opinion naman your burger is quite good tasting, how would you take that?
I am sure he is a cool and kind guy in person, but it seems pag nasa forums/internet na sya, nagtratransform sya into something else. para syang Jekyll & Hyde( not the overdrive ha) hehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vinCe-uv7bk on March 23, 2006, 11:42:20 PM
sabagay your also right hay sana ala na gulo party nalng tayo lahat :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 23, 2006, 11:44:58 PM
well... whatever the problem is, it's like we're hitting a brick wall. lol!
in a way, the accounts of the people defending the guy makes the whole issue more bizarre, if not worse, if you ask me. personally, i'd rather deal with a braggart rather than a weirdo with "issues" (and boy, am i dealing with quite a few of these lately :lol:). not that i'm saying Alex is either, of course. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 23, 2006, 11:54:58 PM
Quote from: Al_Librero
well... whatever the problem is, it's like we're hitting a brick wall. lol!
in a way, the accounts of the people defending the guy makes the whole issue more bizarre, if not worse, if you ask me. personally, i'd rather deal with a braggart rather than a weirdo with "issues" (and boy, am i dealing with quite a few of these lately :lol:). not that i'm saying Alex is either, of course. :lol:
hhhmmm... is it because he's both? hehe :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 24, 2006, 12:03:06 AM
oasgomez is just being oasgomez. C'mon, enjoy the fun. ;)
I would like to add that it could have been interesting to have tried the Herbert with two 4x12 cabs with greenbacks. Maybe you can nail the perfect Plexi sound on Channel 2? BTW, 180W is friggin' loud.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 24, 2006, 12:07:46 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: stratman1
MOre gain? Really? Hmmm... wonder, wonder. I agree with your # 2 gripe, $4.1K. That's a lot of dough.
tcha..kamahal na pala ng Diesel ngayon. ano to per gallon?
pa korni epek lang.
That's a good one, preng sonny. You made a funny :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 24, 2006, 12:08:23 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
Actually, 5881s and 6L6s are direct-drops, but 5881s are 25W tubes while 6L6's are 30W tubes. My tube handbook says it.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 24, 2006, 12:14:13 AM
Quote from: vinCe-uv7bk
sabagay your also right hay sana ala na gulo party nalng tayo lahat :lol:
Oo mga, party nalang tayo. Kung nasa Pinas kayo meron silang Jam Eb sa 25. Kung nasa So Cal kayo meron kaming Jam Eb din sa 25. Tara na at mag saya. \:D/ :-({|= :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 24, 2006, 12:16:56 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: vinCe-uv7bk
he really ment for you to try it. Oasgomez is trying to stress out that Not all high price/known amps sound good. Based on his experience he is just trying to help us out so that we dnt waste our money on "branded" expensive amps. A big factor also would be the listeners taste. He usualy holds a tone party thing with arie. seriously he's a generous guy. In a way he would let people try out his high end toys for people to understand and get the feel of these high end amps. He is not boasting or showing off that he's rich or has alot of toys but simply he just wants to share his amps. honestly the vox amp 2x12 and the mesa boogie at aries place is actualy Oasgomez amps. its been with arie for over a year already. so peace na mnga tao LOL alah na gulo hOkeh? :lol:
Wala naman sanang problem Vince. maybe just a problem of articulation on Mr.Gomez side. Nandon na tayo na he is voicing out his opinions, but you can do it naman without sounding like youre bragging. take it this way, youre eating your favorite hamburger tapos I came along and say: "Vince, ano ba yang hamburger na kinakain mo,thats [gooey brown stuff] man!?" pero in your opinion naman your burger is quite good tasting, how would you take that?
I am sure he is a cool and kind guy in person, but it seems pag nasa forums/internet na sya, nagtratransform sya into something else. para syang Jekyll & Hyde( not the overdrive ha) hehe.
Anader astute obserbasyon there, my prend sonny. It's not the intellectual and informative knowledge that he wants us to hear. It's the presentation of those knowledge that ticks the people here :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 24, 2006, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: fretburner
Quote from: Al_Librero
well... whatever the problem is, it's like we're hitting a brick wall. lol!
in a way, the accounts of the people defending the guy makes the whole issue more bizarre, if not worse, if you ask me. personally, i'd rather deal with a braggart rather than a weirdo with "issues" (and boy, am i dealing with quite a few of these lately :lol:). not that i'm saying Alex is either, of course. :lol:
hhhmmm... is it because he's both? hehe :)
Fretburner... now, that's funny and witty at the same time :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 24, 2006, 12:21:10 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
oasgomez is just being oasgomez. C'mon, enjoy the fun. ;)
I would like to add that it could have been interesting to have tried the Herbert with two 4x12 cabs with greenbacks. Maybe you can nail the perfect Plexi sound on Channel 2? BTW, 180W is friggin' loud.
180w is loud? Man, I use my 100 w amp in gigs and the sound tech goes crazy if I go over past 12:00 in my volume. 100 watts for guitar is plenty, 180 watts is just plain insane... unless your planning to use it in an open arena, hehe
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 24, 2006, 12:25:12 AM
yeah... 180 watts do seem a tad too much for a bedroom amp. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 12:35:13 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Sir Phil,
Just wondering, what to you is a great sound?
Have you A/Bed a Diezel Herbert versus a Carvin Legacy?
uh oh...spider sense tingling...i sense DANGER! galit sayo si papa phil niyan!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: extreme16199 on March 24, 2006, 12:40:09 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
may switch ba ang fender para 5881/6l6gc to EL34?
wala..pero maybe use Yellow Jacket tube converter..magkaiba yung pins ng EL's sa 6L6's e. not sure how it will sound though.
the yellow jackets will not convert an amp with 6L6 tubes to EL34's, but to EL84's.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 12:41:16 AM
not entirely true either...i have a GT 6L6GE and it's 25 watts. 5881 is just the industrial name for the 6L6...another name for it would be KT66...or in Mullard's case, when they came out with their version of 6L6...they called it the EL37...
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
Actually, 5881s and 6L6s are direct-drops, but 5881s are 25W tubes while 6L6's are 30W tubes. My tube handbook says it.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: extreme16199 on March 24, 2006, 12:47:17 AM
Quote from: markflo
not entirely true either...i have a GT 6L6GE and it's 25 watts. 5881 is just the industrial name for the 6L6...another name for it would be KT66...or in Mullard's case, when they came out with their version of 6L6...they called it the EL37...
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
Actually, 5881s and 6L6s are direct-drops, but 5881s are 25W tubes while 6L6's are 30W tubes. My tube handbook says it.
5881's, 6L6's, and KT66's, while generally interchangeable, are not one and the same. from it's physical appearance alone, there is already a difference. tonally, they also differ.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 24, 2006, 12:52:15 AM
Quote from: markflo
Quote from: oasgomez
Sir Phil,
Just wondering, what to you is a great sound?
Have you A/Bed a Diezel Herbert versus a Carvin Legacy?
uh oh...spider sense tingling...i sense DANGER! galit sayo si papa phil niyan!
Haha!!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 24, 2006, 12:58:24 AM
Quote from: extreme16199
Quote from: markflo
not entirely true either...i have a GT 6L6GE and it's 25 watts. 5881 is just the industrial name for the 6L6...another name for it would be KT66...or in Mullard's case, when they came out with their version of 6L6...they called it the EL37...
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
Actually, 5881s and 6L6s are direct-drops, but 5881s are 25W tubes while 6L6's are 30W tubes. My tube handbook says it.
5881's, 6L6's, and KT66's, while generally interchangeable, are not one and the same. from it's physical appearance alone, there is already a difference. tonally, they also differ.
they are not one and the same.. yun nga! even different type of 6l6's are not one and the same... gets??
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 12:58:45 AM
of course, there are tonal & visual differences...even with 2 different branded 6L6's...there are always tonal & visual differences...
for example...the ECC83...another name for the 12ax7...but some would argue that ECC83's are more british sounding...therefore, different...thing is...that's what the british called their 12ax7's...so now, the name ECC83 name is associated with british/european tubes...
so, same thing...same family...different tonalities...
Quote from: extreme16199
Quote from: markflo
not entirely true either...i have a GT 6L6GE and it's 25 watts. 5881 is just the industrial name for the 6L6...another name for it would be KT66...or in Mullard's case, when they came out with their version of 6L6...they called it the EL37...
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
Actually, 5881s and 6L6s are direct-drops, but 5881s are 25W tubes while 6L6's are 30W tubes. My tube handbook says it.
5881's, 6L6's, and KT66's, while generally interchangeable, are not one and the same. from it's physical appearance alone, there is already a difference. tonally, they also differ.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vinCe-uv7bk on March 24, 2006, 01:02:36 AM
anyways anyone try kustom amps? :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 24, 2006, 01:04:53 AM
ayun nahuli din ni MarkFlo...
Quote
extreme16199 wrote: the yellow jackets will not convert an amp with 6L6 tubes to EL34's, but to EL84's.
oo nga pala.... 34's and 84's.nalito ako don..thanks for pointing it out.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 01:06:16 AM
Quote from: vinCe-uv7bk
anyways anyone try kustom amps? :D
yea, i tried a 100w full stack in the music shop that i teach in. ok naman siya...nice cleans...nice drive...i'd take it out on a gig if i could
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vinCe-uv7bk on March 24, 2006, 01:10:42 AM
waaaa.. i want on of those... :? how much do they cost there?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 01:21:42 AM
well, which kustom amp are you referring to? the one i tried was the quad gfx 100
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 24, 2006, 03:46:46 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Sir Phil,
Just wondering, what to you is a great sound?
Have you A/Bed a Diezel Herbert versus a Carvin Legacy?
I'm a lead player ... great sound for me at the age I'm in is
.....the seering VIOLIN - like tone of Vai (smooth, creamy, fat and warm), Vinnie Moore(smooth and warm), and Satch.
I'm not into the high gain stuff........maybe 15 years ago.
....can't get my hands on a Diezel.....I'm keeping my eyes on a Bogner Ecstasy head though....2nd hand lang.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 03:54:55 AM
Custom Audio! OD100 SH!
yahooo! i want!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 05:24:08 AM
Spankyrigor,
Hetfield uses the VH4 but I cannot discount a possibility that they purchased a Herbert.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 05:26:01 AM
Skunky Funk,
I am afraid the Diezel might fry two Greenback 4x12 cabinets. 200 watts lang iyon kung todo.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 05:35:43 AM
Al,
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.
On 180 watts, if you read my previous post, the Herbert uses the extra power to maintain the cranked qualities of an amp at ANY volume that includes bedroom to coliseum. If you also read previous posts, the Diezel line started out its life in recording studios and was not available to the public for several years. In short ang bumibili niyan ay mga record producers and engineers. It was meant to replace a whole arsenal of amps in the studio. Do I think it can replace an arsenal of amps like POD and Line 6? Nope. But, for what it brings to the table nothing can beat it e.g. three great sounding amp channels that are distinct, flexibility and sounds great at ANY volume. I cannot stress this enough because I did not and could not believe this claim until I tried out the amp. So given that fact, wattage for me does not matter -- it rarely does anymore because I just look at how the amp is voiced. People will claim that power tube saturation is different from pre amp tube saturation but for me the sound is so nice that I dont even care to qualify whether its pre amp or powertube saturation. People forget the Output transformer is also a factor for saturation. So I ask those people who think that power tube saturation is superior, paano ang output transformer ng amp? Can you separate the degree of influence it has on the so called power tube saturation?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 05:45:08 AM
Phil,
I am really also interested in the Bogner Ecstasy. Kaso nasubukan ko muna ang Uberschall which I bought because of its specialized nature and unique voicing by Bogner. But given my experience with the Diezel Herbert, interesado ako uli sa mga multi-channel amps specially the Bogner Ecstasy. I used to think multi-channel amps only had one great sounding channel or none at all but the Herbert again has changed my perspective.
Given the description you gave me for your ideal sound, I strongly recommend you try the Herbert. It is so smooth and warm. Violin type ang mga nota because of the special mid voicing that I and Arie cannot get over. I was just comparing it to the SLO last night. The SLO sounded too raunchy. I believe sa Herbert channel 2+ makukuha muna ang violin guitar mo without entering the high gain territory of channel 3. The SLO is a bit more softer/malambot than the Diezel by a hair with less compression. Kung Vai and Satriani, kaya ng amp na ito straight jack without effects.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 24, 2006, 06:02:37 AM
oas...oas....whoever is rationalizing your engineering is, uh, wrong.. Regardless of how many watts your amps is, you can't blow out your greenbacks with the Diezel. Lord, my stomach was aching reading your post - so many electrical engineering misnomers!!! I was trained as an engineer and unless you amp has a load other than 4 16 or 8 ohms - which I highly doubt since I've seen a Herbert and own a VH4S -Greenbacks in the 4x12 are fine. You might structurally wreck them over time from high volume playing but I doubt you play arenas enough to require the Herbert to be played at full throttle the whole time. Even a venue as big as music museum or the araneta coliseum caters to only specific acts and unless you are a session player, I doubt you play there either to require the Herbert at full volume performance.
Please, for the sake of others who KNOW amplifier circuitry and might own a Diezel (but prefer to lurk)...read up on what your amp is doing and what it can't do which is replace tons of amps in a recording house's amp collection. What you said is just a dead give away that you basically know nothing about what you are yapping about so slow down, sit down, breathe, and grab a book on amplifier schematics and LEARN - you are killing me with misleading information and amateurish bravado that is, to say the least, misplaced and highly arrogant. Venus Isle is a musician in his own right - you had no right to bash him like that. Come on, man, your schpiel on power tube saturation was enough to get me smirking - even a student at don Bosco could take youu through the ropes of circuitry pathways!
Hmmm...it seems to me that you've never set foot in a full fledged recording studio, have you? I am talking about a full capacity studio house - not those smaller places. If you haven't you need to stop your claims, man, because it is just untrue; the Diezel can't tke the place of other amps - you would be plain stupid to say so. I've spent the better part of 10 years in a lot of studios, including some very historic ones and though some of them have Diezel's - they have older amps - cheap and expensive - that they keep as well.
Now, enough talk...go study then come back to me once you know more about electrical engineering theory. If you spent 4 grand on that amp, you'd better KNOW what it does...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on March 24, 2006, 06:02:45 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Al,
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.
Just because it's cheap you already call it lousy? Dang! Magpakumbaba ka naman! :roll:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 06:09:19 AM
One thing I would like to say about the Ultrasound guys in New York is that they are straight shooters. They never talk about the features or specifications of an amp. For example, they will never tell you that you cannot have a 100 watt or 180 watt that performs well at low volumes. They will tell you that Bruno Super 100s are better than 9 out of 10 Dumbles but that one Dumble is untouchable. They will tell you that the 30 watt Komet Constellation or the 60 watt Komet needs to be as loud as hell for it to soften up and is very picky with cabinets thats why they recommend Herbert. They will tell you that CAA OD50 has a great clean channel but a not so satisfactory overdrive channel. What they tell you is the amp's playing characteristics and sound. How can they do this? Because they have all these amps in under one roof with multiple units of each. And more importantly the amps are all tested and A/Bed in rehearsal studios. So, it really looks petty for us to come up and say 180 watts is overkill blah blah when we have not yet heard the amp. And I am saying this because I was myself sounded petty to the Ultrasound Guys because I was harping on so much electronic & theory jargon. So, Al dont knock down something or try to find loopholes in the specifications based on how you perceived your past experience with other high powered amps because I am telling you know that this is different.
On another post, somebody said that I brag too much and he goes on to compare me with another humble guy in manila with more than 50 vintage guitars and 50 vintage amps. Well, I am going to say than NONE of those 50 vintage amps will sound like a Diezel Herbert. I can prove that. The Diezel line will and I consider to be a classic sound on its own. I have not espoused vintage as superior and I do not discount that there are great sounding vintage amps. I have some too. But the excitement and inspiration from the Herbert is a totally different vibe from vintage amps. Now given the flexibility of the Herbert, rather than lugging around 3 vintage amps that sound great to a gig, I rather gig with one Herbert with 3 great sounding channels which prior to this experience I thought was a remote possibility.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 06:11:51 AM
lykenhowl,
So are you saying that because it is cheap it should sound like something more expensive?
Kung sinasabi mo na price is not an issue and you can make anything cheap sound better than anything else on this planet, ikaw ang kulang sa pagkakumbaba.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 06:31:39 AM
Quote
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.
I've heard Venus Isle play in his rig ...and he sounds awesome... and that was a decade ago...I can only begin to imagine how much better sounding he has gotten over the years...
You on the other hand, oasgomez...none of us has heard play...even with your uber rig...
Venus Isle = Sounds awesome +1 Oasgomez = Silence, refuses to post clips ZERO
So, having said that...guys...who do you think sounds better?
Venus Isle can probably whip your butt musically with one hand tied behind his back...and without even trying or breaking a sweat...
Oh, by the way he uses the JSX...
I think OASgomez wasn't given any toys by his mommy when he was younger...hence...the complex... :D :D :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 06:33:57 AM
hell man, marc seal was able to post a video clip...why can't you?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on March 24, 2006, 06:39:20 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
lykenhowl,
So are you saying that because it is cheap it should sound like something more expensive?
Kung sinasabi mo na price is not an issue and you can make anything cheap sound better than anything else on this planet, ikaw ang kulang sa pagkakumbaba.
I didnt say that I can make "cheap sound better"but a lot of guys here in this forum can, My point here Alex is dont assume that others have a "lousy" amp because its cheap or it's not boutique like yours. :roll:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: enricodedios on March 24, 2006, 06:44:57 AM
wow! masyadong mainit dito sa forum na toh! Lang mag away okay. Ako ipinion ko lang I am using classic 30 peavey amp and it's sound like a boutique to me and I am not scared to put amp side by side with the other high end amps out there... Tska siguro nasa player naman din yun kung hinde sya marunong mag tweak ng sound sa amp what's the use of buying expensive amp kahit gumastos ka pa ng isang milyong dollars lagyan mo ng diamond or gold its not gonna work... yun lang opinion ko lang magagalit okay...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 24, 2006, 06:47:23 AM
lord...so you based your purchase on the whims of salespeople without even playing the amps? Do you even know where Ultrasound is in NYC? Wow, thats a LOT of faith to put in someone you've never seen. I played Diezel's extensively before I even thought about getting one and, yes, I am familiar with Bruno's and Komet's and Dumbles - why - because I've played them in the past. Nice amps - but it doesn't mean that you can write them off with a Herbert. Not by a long shot. Man, you are something of a character aren't you? Leave the other players alone because they are good musicians in their own right - the point of this forum is to help others more about THEIR tone and how they can make it better. You are just being an ass - an arrogant, bragging ass, at that...
James Hetfield and the Herbert. Of course, its bloody Metallica. The Record Plant alone has a herbert, a VH4 an Uebershcall and a Shiva. Why wouldn't James have a Diezel? He has used everything from Marshalls to Randalls to Krank amps live since I saw them last. Metallica tries everything out. Kirk even used a 2x12 Rectifier once during the Cunning Stunts tour. Who said better is bigger?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 24, 2006, 06:50:38 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Phil,
I am really also interested in the Bogner Ecstasy. Kaso nasubukan ko muna ang Uberschall which I bought because of its specialized nature and unique voicing by Bogner. But given my experience with the Diezel Herbert, interesado ako uli sa mga multi-channel amps specially the Bogner Ecstasy. I used to think multi-channel amps only had one great sounding channel or none at all but the Herbert again has changed my perspective.
Given the description you gave me for your ideal sound, I strongly recommend you try the Herbert. It is so smooth and warm. Violin type ang mga nota because of the special mid voicing that I and Arie cannot get over. I was just comparing it to the SLO last night. The SLO sounded too raunchy. I believe sa Herbert channel 2+ makukuha muna ang violin guitar mo without entering the high gain territory of channel 3. The SLO is a bit more softer/malambot than the Diezel by a hair with less compression. Kung Vai and Satriani, kaya ng amp na ito straight jack without effects.
well right now .....I am very happy with my Carvins.....I'm still saving up to get the Bogner Ecstasy. I'll check out a Herbert if I have a chance.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 06:58:47 AM
abyssianson,
Being a great engineer that you are, can you predict how long in minutes, it will take a Diezel Herbert to structurally wreck eight 25 watt greenbacks? Call Peter Diezel and Celestion right now and ask if they recommend it. Bet tayo pati sila hindi nila ma-recommend. So why should I take the risk of wrecking somebody else's greenbacks. Paano kung naka full throttle clean ako? Remember than greenbacks have lower SPLs than others. So what I perceive to be moderate volume might actually be the amp at full throttle already.
I have said that I PERSONALLY do not think that the Diezel is a replacement for all amps. It has its own sound and sonic signature that none of the others can reproduce and that one reason it remains alongside other amps in the studio. I just said it was developed in the studio and those producers and engineers are the ones that who choose to use it or replace their other amps for whatever reasons. What I wanted to bring out is the ability of the Herbert to sound great at ANY volume and Peter's R&D with studios is definitely a plus. By the way do you know that the VH4s has the weakest power section of all Diezels except maybe for the einstein? In fact for headroom, its better to get the mono VH4? Now, imagine that the Herbert has a totally more powerful power amp section than the VH4. I wanted to get a VH4s which is much more expensive than the Diezel Herbert but I was discouraged by the guys because of the headroom problem. Now of course your headroom maybe sufficient for your needs but a perceptibly loud Diezel Herbert Clean on inefficient greenbacks may actually start to structurally wreck the speaker without the operator knowing. Since the Herbert has high headroom, one might not be able to even detect the break up on the clean channel.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 07:03:37 AM
Phil,
Tell me the results of your A/B between the Ecstasy and the Herbert when you get the chance. Somebody posted a comparison on Harmony Central but its nice to get a perspective from someone like you into Steve Vai.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 24, 2006, 07:12:05 AM
Abyssinianson,
Yeah thats a lot of faith and Ken and Gene deliver. But more faith than I will place on you because you dont own all those amps at the same time. Since they have 23 rehearsal studios and you dont, they have the facility to thoroughly test those amps. By the way, I intend to drop by Ultrasound later this year to test all those amps and buy them eventually because I know and I dont discount the possibility that I might like an amp that they do not recommend to me which is the Cornford. By the way, Slash bought one of the limited edition Komets KF 50 which Ultrasound is the sole distributor. So, if that aint a badge of credibility to you what is? When was the last time you sold an amp to Slash?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 24, 2006, 07:39:32 AM
Oas...as much of an engineer as I am, I did not predict how long it will take to wreck greenbacks solely through logic, I've seen it happen, plain and simple. And SPLs? were you assuming that despite the SPL rating the greenbacks are supposed to be for clean specifically over overdriven tone use? 97db peak is plenty loud AND you are pumping sounding through 4 speakers! If THAT isn't enough headroom, who are yoou playing for? Nine Inch Nails? Even Aaron North uses a single Marshal 1960 live AND he is playing arenas! You are one misled person, my friend. Despite the SPL rating, the speakers can take them because regardless of the peak decibel rating, you are distributing the overall load per cabbinet, over a range of speakers. However, the caveat is, they might not have as much "air" as other speakers which is why some people say over driven speakers sound best when they have a relatively low peak db rating. Engineering? Nah - common sense. Its analogous to stuffing a square peg in a circular hole.
Full throttle clean? Saturation = gain stages descriptive of channel 2 and 3 on the VH4, Herbert and the VH4s. Even with 2x50 in the power section on the VH4S, thats plenty clean. Just how loud are you playing to even notice saturation in a 100W amp? Here I can deduce 2 possibilities: A) your tubes might be bad or, B) your ears have awful tinnitis.
Oh yes - because you did say to call Diezel as a suggestion, I did, just to see if I was wrong about the SPL compatibility of the Diezel to Celestions, Black Widows.... The distributors, and Diezel, said the same thing that 97/ 98 is plenty loud, and unless you're playing through a 1x12, you shouldn't be able to wreck a 4x12 especially because of the tempered resistance rating of the speakers. Just in case you want to talk to them yourself, here are the contact numbers of the places I called:
- Salwender International in CA: 714 538 1285 - Moridaira in Japan: 0081 3 3864 1641 - Diezel GmBH in Dillingen 0049 89 930 67 27
You might be better off knowing how to speak Nihonggo to talk with someone at Moridaira and Deutsch for GmBH but, luckily, my Japanese is still great and I haven't lost my German in neglect. Diezel has a separate Service line that takes care of gear compatibility questitons and warranty services. I doubt I will ever need servicing for my amp but if it does, there are a lot of authorized shops where I live. Cheers!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 24, 2006, 07:57:48 AM
I know Cebuano bisaya.. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 24, 2006, 08:21:42 AM
Phil, bisaya ka?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 24, 2006, 08:30:12 AM
yeah my deutsch isnt very good these days.. i'll get my wife to call Diezel so oasgomez can save on IDD charges.. $4100 is a lot of moolah :P
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 24, 2006, 08:32:22 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: oasgomez
Sir Phil,
Just wondering, what to you is a great sound?
Have you A/Bed a Diezel Herbert versus a Carvin Legacy?
I'm a lead player ... great sound for me at the age I'm in is
.....the seering VIOLIN - like tone of Vai (smooth, creamy, fat and warm), Vinnie Moore(smooth and warm), and Satch.
I'm not into the high gain stuff........maybe 15 years ago.
....can't get my hands on a Diezel.....I'm keeping my eyes on a Bogner Ecstasy head though....2nd hand lang.
Hey! were going to amp shop after jam eb, right? Let's test them out there, if they have them on the floor, hehe
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 24, 2006, 09:07:52 AM
last time I went there...may Soladano, VHT, at Framus.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: meashuggahr on March 24, 2006, 09:45:16 AM
wish i was as lupit as some guitarists here and let the recording studios and sound engineers and producers so and so spend $$$$$$$amp for me during the recording. :D
if you have the talent everything else follows:)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on March 24, 2006, 09:48:58 AM
hayy... that's why i love my marshall ms-4 so much. it's just plain simple... hehehe
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: enricodedios on March 24, 2006, 09:59:03 AM
meron na bang nakatry sa inyo ng heritage amp green ang kulay tapos wla syang overdrive clean only... :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 24, 2006, 10:02:40 AM
i've never tried a Heritage amp but the single channel design reminds me of the discontinued Trace Elliot Velocets that seemed to be really popular back in the day. Those were really fun. Simple and great tone. I remember Dean DeLeo from Stone Temple Pilots was into those.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 24, 2006, 10:15:49 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
On another post, somebody said that I brag too much and he goes on to compare me with another humble guy in manila with more than 50 vintage guitars and 50 vintage amps. Well, I am going to say than NONE of those 50 vintage amps will sound like a Diezel Herbert. I can prove that.
Geez... the comment from that forum member was aimed at your lack of humility... it was not meant to compare the quality of vintage amps with your Diezel... you're so caught up in whatever it is you're trying to prove that you fail to even understand what people are saying... you live a sad life man...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 24, 2006, 10:21:07 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
i've never tried a Heritage amp but the single channel design reminds me of the discontinued Trace Elliot Velocets that seemed to be really popular back in the day. Those were really fun. Simple and great tone. I remember Dean DeLeo from Stone Temple Pilots was into those.
yup great amps.. if you see one.. buy it! cahnces are underpriced sya!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 24, 2006, 10:23:43 AM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: oasgomez
On another post, somebody said that I brag too much and he goes on to compare me with another humble guy in manila with more than 50 vintage guitars and 50 vintage amps. Well, I am going to say than NONE of those 50 vintage amps will sound like a Diezel Herbert. I can prove that.
Geez... the comment from that forum member was aimed at your lack of humility... it was not meant to compare the quality of vintage amps with your Diezel... you're so caught up in whatever it is you're trying to prove that you fail to even understand what people are saying... you live a sad life man...
i liked the comment about how slash bought one.. and his retort to someone was "have you sold one to slash?"
totally missed the point..
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 24, 2006, 11:36:13 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
...take it this way, youre eating your favorite hamburger tapos I came along and say: "Vince, ano ba yang hamburger na kinakain mo,thats [gooey brown stuff] man!?" pero in your opinion naman your burger is quite good tasting, how would you take that?...
parang yung office mate ko nung una nakatikim ng brother's cheese steak (na ni-recommend ko kasi fave ko dati), sabi nya "ano 'to? shawarma na ginawang burger?"
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 24, 2006, 01:03:12 PM
OASGOMEZ! ISA LANG MASASABI KO SAYO!!!
....wala yan sa amp ng lolo ko...
BWAHAHA!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 24, 2006, 01:34:47 PM
Quote from: markflo
OASGOMEZ! ISA LANG MASASABI KO SAYO!!!
....wala yan sa amp ng lolo ko...
BWAHAHA!
olrayts!!! vote for Markflo for moderator!!!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Poundcake on March 24, 2006, 04:00:56 PM
Quote from: markflo
Quote
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.
I've heard Venus Isle play in his rig ...and he sounds awesome... and that was a decade ago...I can only begin to imagine how much better sounding he has gotten over the years...
You on the other hand, oasgomez...none of us has heard play...even with your uber rig...
Venus Isle = Sounds awesome +1 Oasgomez = Silence, refuses to post clips ZERO
So, having said that...guys...who do you think sounds better?
Venus Isle can probably whip your butt musically with one hand tied behind his back...and without even trying or breaking a sweat...
Oh, by the way he uses the JSX...
I think OASgomez wasn't given any toys by his mommy when he was younger...hence...the complex... :D :D :D
hehe that's fine dude, no offense taken :) i would've bought such an amp as i have the means to buy one as well, but just a reality check, playing guitar is my passion but i'm not a full-time musician and as the other forumites have already mentioned, i'm already happy and inspired by the tone that my gear and fingers can produce. the extra $2,700 or so can be put into good use for other more meaningful things. but that's just me, kanya-kanyang trip at wallet tayo :) now back to regular programming... burger or hanging rice talk anyone? hehe...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: extreme16199 on March 24, 2006, 06:16:46 PM
Quote from: markflo
of course, there are tonal & visual differences...even with 2 different branded 6L6's...there are always tonal & visual differences...
of course, this is true. sorry i didn't elaborate further. it was very late when i posted.
allow me to explain. let's use 6L6 as the baseline and say a 6L6 is a regular 6L6 as we know it. 5881's are built to be sturdier and to fit smaller spaces than regular 6L6's. on the other hand, KT66's are the european version of the 6L6. in other words, each type was constructed with a specific purpose in mind (audio is only one among many purposes). furthermore, during the heyday of vacuum tubes, tubes were made with little regard to their tonality since they were used for different applications anyway (e.g. military, industrial, electronic, consumer, etc.). couple this with the rated plate voltage the tubes can handle, not all of these tubes can used interchangeably without biasing the amp (or not at all, if the amp has very high plate voltage and the amp has no bias control). from this, it can be gathered that the aforementioned tubes are not the same. the risk in assuming that they are one and the same is the potential of shortening the tube's life, frying the tube, and much worse, damaging the amp.
as for the physical appearance, a 6L6 is generally long and cylindrical, a 5881 is shorter than a 6L6 and stubbier, a KT66 is sort of "coke bottle" shaped.
tonally, 6L6's sound clearer and sparklier, while the 5881's sound warmer and smoother. if i were to make a comparison, 6L6's sound more "blackface fender", while 5881's sound more "tweed fender". KT66's, on the other hand, are more desirable for their smooth grind. a benchmark reference for this is john mayall's bluesbreakers's "beano" album, where clapton used a KT66 loaded marshall. purists will argue that no amp can get this tone without being loaded with KT66's.
to sum it up, the names (e.g. "6L6", "5881", "KT66") are more than just differences in how people call the same kind of tube. of course, this distinction isn't as evident since the vacuum tube's most significant purpose right now is for audio, and
Quote from: markflo
for example...the ECC83...another name for the 12ax7...but some would argue that ECC83's are more british sounding...therefore, different...thing is...that's what the british called their 12ax7's...so now, the name ECC83 name is associated with british/european tubes...
unlike the 6L6 and its variants, the terms "12ax7" and "ECC83" refers to the same tube, and differs only in how americans and the british call it. in this case, it is appropriate to say both tubes are the same, simply because they are. a fairer comparison for these types of tubes would be, say, between a 12ax7 and a 12at7 or 12au7 (interchangeable, but with different gain).
Quote from: markflo
so, same thing...same family...different tonalities...
there you said it. they are from the same family. but let me qualify this by saying they are not the same thing. i suppose the best term to use for this is that they are "equivalent" to each other. to say these different names all refer to the same banana is an oversimplification.
hopefully, i was able to clarify my earlier post.
cheers.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: extreme16199 on March 24, 2006, 06:19:36 PM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: extreme16199
Quote from: markflo
not entirely true either...i have a GT 6L6GE and it's 25 watts. 5881 is just the industrial name for the 6L6...another name for it would be KT66...or in Mullard's case, when they came out with their version of 6L6...they called it the EL37...
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
6L6's are the same tube type as 5881's... 5881 number was just used because it used to be only available as a military tube...maybe there are differences in "current" or "voltage" with 6l6's but, so are all other 6l6 types naman are different with each other...
now for Fender with EL34's.. meron ba nun?
Actually, 5881s and 6L6s are direct-drops, but 5881s are 25W tubes while 6L6's are 30W tubes. My tube handbook says it.
5881's, 6L6's, and KT66's, while generally interchangeable, are not one and the same. from it's physical appearance alone, there is already a difference. tonally, they also differ.
they are not one and the same.. yun nga! even different type of 6l6's are not one and the same... gets??
sorry if it wasn't able to explain my point. kindly check my reply to mark. also, the reason why i said "they are not one and the same" is because earlier posts have stated that they (e.g. 6L6, 5881, and KT66) are.
cheers.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 24, 2006, 10:29:14 PM
Quote from: markflo
Quote
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.
I've heard Venus Isle play in his rig ...and he sounds awesome... and that was a decade ago...I can only begin to imagine how much better sounding he has gotten over the years...
You on the other hand, oasgomez...none of us has heard play...even with your uber rig...
Venus Isle = Sounds awesome +1 Oasgomez = Silence, refuses to post clips ZERO
So, having said that...guys...who do you think sounds better?
Venus Isle can probably whip your butt musically with one hand tied behind his back...and without even trying or breaking a sweat...
Oh, by the way he uses the JSX...
I think OASgomez wasn't given any toys by his mommy when he was younger...hence...the complex... :D :D :D
Tone and technique are mutually exclusive, but strongly related.
The JSX was too fizzy for me. But that's just me.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 24, 2006, 11:30:07 PM
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'. This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality. But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.
Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab. In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 25, 2006, 12:42:25 AM
equivalent = same
"equivalent" just has more letters and therefore, is harder to spell :)
actually mas malaki pa ang pinagkaiba ng 6L6A , B at 6L6GC kesa sa pinagkaiba ng 6L6GC sa 5881...
these are all different companies who manufactured the same tube, but of course, with different specs, different materials...etc etc...but they ARE the same TYPE of tube. yun lang po...bow...
i actually had this discussion with a friend of mine regarding preamp tubes naman...heheh...the discussion hasn't ended yet! we just both got too tired of it...haha...
i get your point though...and it's a good one...but it think it's overspecifying the 6L6...too confusing...hehehe
Quote from: extreme16199
Quote from: markflo
of course, there are tonal & visual differences...even with 2 different branded 6L6's...there are always tonal & visual differences...
of course, this is true. sorry i didn't elaborate further. it was very late when i posted.
allow me to explain. let's use 6L6 as the baseline and say a 6L6 is a regular 6L6 as we know it. 5881's are built to be sturdier and to fit smaller spaces than regular 6L6's. on the other hand, KT66's are the european version of the 6L6. in other words, each type was constructed with a specific purpose in mind (audio is only one among many purposes). furthermore, during the heyday of vacuum tubes, tubes were made with little regard to their tonality since they were used for different applications anyway (e.g. military, industrial, electronic, consumer, etc.). couple this with the rated plate voltage the tubes can handle, not all of these tubes can used interchangeably without biasing the amp (or not at all, if the amp has very high plate voltage and the amp has no bias control). from this, it can be gathered that the aforementioned tubes are not the same. the risk in assuming that they are one and the same is the potential of shortening the tube's life, frying the tube, and much worse, damaging the amp.
as for the physical appearance, a 6L6 is generally long and cylindrical, a 5881 is shorter than a 6L6 and stubbier, a KT66 is sort of "coke bottle" shaped.
tonally, 6L6's sound clearer and sparklier, while the 5881's sound warmer and smoother. if i were to make a comparison, 6L6's sound more "blackface fender", while 5881's sound more "tweed fender". KT66's, on the other hand, are more desirable for their smooth grind. a benchmark reference for this is john mayall's bluesbreakers's "beano" album, where clapton used a KT66 loaded marshall. purists will argue that no amp can get this tone without being loaded with KT66's.
to sum it up, the names (e.g. "6L6", "5881", "KT66") are more than just differences in how people call the same kind of tube. of course, this distinction isn't as evident since the vacuum tube's most significant purpose right now is for audio, and
Quote from: markflo
for example...the ECC83...another name for the 12ax7...but some would argue that ECC83's are more british sounding...therefore, different...thing is...that's what the british called their 12ax7's...so now, the name ECC83 name is associated with british/european tubes...
unlike the 6L6 and its variants, the terms "12ax7" and "ECC83" refers to the same tube, and differs only in how americans and the british call it. in this case, it is appropriate to say both tubes are the same, simply because they are. a fairer comparison for these types of tubes would be, say, between a 12ax7 and a 12at7 or 12au7 (interchangeable, but with different gain).
Quote from: markflo
so, same thing...same family...different tonalities...
there you said it. they are from the same family. but let me qualify this by saying they are not the same thing. i suppose the best term to use for this is that they are "equivalent" to each other. to say these different names all refer to the same banana is an oversimplification.
hopefully, i was able to clarify my earlier post.
cheers.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 25, 2006, 01:08:16 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'. This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality. But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.
Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab. In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)
what's the point of posting sound clips when you won't get to appreciate the real quality anyway?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 01:13:09 AM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'. This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality. But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.
Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab. In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)
what's the point of posting sound clips when you won't get to appreciate the real quality anyway?
Even a crapload of mics like an SM57/E609/414 through a Neve 1073 through a Protools HD3 Rig would still not get a good reproduction of the amp, because there is a processed sound due to mic placement and how you mix mics.
My point is, you can hear the 'voice' of the amp even in a low-bandwidth recording. Parang tao. Hindi naman tayo lahat magkaboses sa telepono diba? Lo-fi pero recognizeable pa rin. And since telephones usually roll off at around 4kHz and 200Hz, you still get a decent glimpse of the guitar speaker range...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 25, 2006, 01:16:13 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'. This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality. But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.
Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab. In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 25, 2006, 01:17:01 AM
if you can't even record it ...or if it's TOO good to be heard on a record...what's the point of spending $4K on it?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 25, 2006, 01:22:18 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'. This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality. But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.
Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab. In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)
what's the point of posting sound clips when you won't get to appreciate the real quality anyway?
Even a crapload of mics like an SM57/E609/414 through a Neve 1073 through a Protools HD3 Rig would still not get a good reproduction of the amp, because there is a processed sound due to mic placement and how you mix mics.
My point is, you can hear the 'voice' of the amp even in a low-bandwidth recording. Parang tao. Hindi naman tayo lahat magkaboses sa telepono diba? Lo-fi pero recognizeable pa rin. And since telephones usually roll off at around 4kHz and 200Hz, you still get a decent glimpse of the guitar speaker range...
I hear it. Don't get me wrong. I know Diezel is a very nice, hi end amp but it's been a while since i've hear of one personally. But from what you recorded, which is good for using your phone, and what i've heard from marc seal vdo clip, to me the herbert doesn't really shock me. Yes, it's got all the bells and whistles, felxibility and good sound, but so does other amps out there. I'd say I have to listen to it personally, maybe in a couple of days. THAT'S JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION, hehehe :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 01:23:26 AM
Quote from: markflo
if you can't even record it ...or if it's TOO good to be heard on a record...what's the point of spending $4K on it?
Don't get me wrong. I'll give you an analogy. Why would I spend $4000 for a DW drum kit if I can use a $800 Mapex M Kit? They have a price difference of $3200, but say you would hear a recording of both with the same mic setup, they would not sound that far from each other. Moreso, you would not hear the $3200 difference. However, behind the kit, the difference is huge! But still it is dependent on the player's taste.
If you want to make the most out of a $4k amp, play with it to death. Hire a roadie and bring it to gigs. Duh, you can afford a $4k amp but can't afford a roadie?
Always remember there is PLAYER PERSPECTIVE and AUDIENCE PERSPECTIVE. When you see Carlos Santana move knobs on his guitar every so often, do you hear much differences in the tone? No. But for Carlos it makes a huge difference because his playing dynamics gets affected whenever he rolls a volume or tone knob once in a while.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 25, 2006, 01:27:08 AM
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 01:32:36 AM
Quote from: markflo
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...
Drummers would agree that a Pearl Masters custom sounds much better than a Pearl Export kit. But it is still how the drummer uses the kit. Dennis Chambers would sound much better behind the export than some newbie behind the Master's Custom.
Same thing with guitar gear. Heck, it is overkill to get a $4k amp if you suck with a $100 amp. But still you cannot deny that there is a SATISFACTION-PRICE curve. But when you go ultra-high end, the returns diminish...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 01:42:04 AM
Quote from: markflo
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...
The bottomline is you have to be inspired to play. I don't think Neil Peart would prefer a Fernando kit for gigs, but surely he'll smoke through it. MOreso with his DW sig model kit.
And also, there is such a thing as a bare minimum. If 'tone' was really just in the fingers, why would people want to upgrade and upgrade gear until they get satisfied? Then look back at the gear you used to own. Maybe you would start ditching some for good.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 01:50:50 AM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'. This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality. But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.
Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab. In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 25, 2006, 02:04:07 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Duh, you can afford a $4k amp but can't afford a roadie?
you'd be surprise how much rodies make here, dude....it's like a career here.
...besides you only spend $4k once for the amp.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 02:09:05 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Duh, you can afford a $4k amp but can't afford a roadie?
you'd be surprise how much rodies make here, dude....it's like a career here.
...besides you only spend $4k once for the amp.
OH GOD I WANNA BE A ROADIE IN CA! (Seriously)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 25, 2006, 02:11:05 AM
you change gears...upgrade or whatever...because of a variety of reasons...change music...change styles...to brag about it with your peers hint hint...that's why people upgrade...
there is a bare minimum...and it's not $4K ...it's not even $300...
if you want...i can show you that tone is indeed, in the fingers...
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: markflo
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...
The bottomline is you have to be inspired to play. I don't think Neil Peart would prefer a Fernando kit for gigs, but surely he'll smoke through it. MOreso with his DW sig model kit.
And also, there is such a thing as a bare minimum. If 'tone' was really just in the fingers, why would people want to upgrade and upgrade gear until they get satisfied? Then look back at the gear you used to own. Maybe you would start ditching some for good.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 25, 2006, 02:12:15 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Duh, you can afford a $4k amp but can't afford a roadie?
you'd be surprise how much rodies make here, dude....it's like a career here.
...besides you only spend $4k once for the amp.
OH GOD I WANNA BE A ROADIE IN CA! (Seriously)
....GET IN LINE......the popular bands usually hire the really experienced ones.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 25, 2006, 02:16:40 AM
Yes, that matters. . Matagal ng gustong malaman ng mga forumites here are
1:) kung talagang maganda ang tone nya. 2:) marunong syang mag gitara or puro lang sya salita.
Like what I said in my previous post, Herbert sounds good but other amps can get the same sound and I have to test it myself. That's my opinion. So, now, 2 out of 2, all I want to know (and probably some of the forumites here, as well) is whether that was Oasgomez playing guitar or not? Just a simple question. Thanks. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 02:19:54 AM
Quote from: stratman1
Yes, that matters. . Matagal ng gustong malaman ng mga forumites here are
1:) kung talagang maganda ang tone nya. 2:) marunong syang mag gitara or puro lang sya salita.
Like what I said in my previous post, Herbert sounds good but other amps can get the same sound and I have to test it myself. That's my opinion. So, now, 2 out of 2, all I want to know (and probably some of the forumites here, as well) is whether that was Oasgomez playing guitar or not? Just a simple question. Thanks. :lol:
Mystery boy pala siya. Newbie kasi ako dito hehe...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 25, 2006, 02:21:49 AM
:roll:
can i make a guess? :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 02:25:08 AM
Quote from: Al_Librero
:roll:
can i make a guess? :lol:
:?: :twisted: :?: :?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 25, 2006, 02:32:45 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Yes, that matters. . Matagal ng gustong malaman ng mga forumites here are
1:) kung talagang maganda ang tone nya. 2:) marunong syang mag gitara or puro lang sya salita.
Like what I said in my previous post, Herbert sounds good but other amps can get the same sound and I have to test it myself. That's my opinion. So, now, 2 out of 2, all I want to know (and probably some of the forumites here, as well) is whether that was Oasgomez playing guitar or not? Just a simple question. Thanks. :lol:
Mystery boy pala siya. Newbie kasi ako dito hehe...
Hindi naman sa mystery boy sya. He ruffled quite a few feathers and stepped on some feet in this forum to get his points across with previous and current remarks. That's just a thing here that if you keep on talking about your great toned gear than you have to back it up with sound clip of the gear and how you play. I think that's just an unwritten rule. Other people with less expensive gear (and with great tone, I must say) can afford to post a clip of their sound and playing capability. So, the question still remains the same (parang ung kanta un, ah, hehe).
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 02:43:30 AM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Yes, that matters. . Matagal ng gustong malaman ng mga forumites here are
1:) kung talagang maganda ang tone nya. 2:) marunong syang mag gitara or puro lang sya salita.
Like what I said in my previous post, Herbert sounds good but other amps can get the same sound and I have to test it myself. That's my opinion. So, now, 2 out of 2, all I want to know (and probably some of the forumites here, as well) is whether that was Oasgomez playing guitar or not? Just a simple question. Thanks. :lol:
Mystery boy pala siya. Newbie kasi ako dito hehe...
Hindi naman sa mystery boy sya. He ruffled quite a few feathers and stepped on some feet in this forum to get his points across with previous and current remarks. That's just a thing here that if you keep on talking about your great toned gear than you have to back it up with sound clip of the gear and how you play. I think that's just an unwritten rule. Other people with less expensive gear (and with great tone, I must say) can afford to post a clip of their sound and playing capability. So, the question still remains the same (parang ung kanta un, ah, hehe).
I know oas has a reputation in the local forums. But to tell you honestly, you cannot simply judge tone from soundclips. You would be surprised how much difference mic placement makes in the first place. Now when playing comes into the equation, I suppose even Yngwie would sound like himself playing through any rig. If you saw the G3 Live in Denver DVD, you'll see a clip where Yngwie was practicing through some crappy solidstate Marshall practice amp. But if Yngwie sounds like Yngwie through any rig, then why the hell should he setup an arsenal of Plexis and cabs during his gigs? Sana yung practice amp na lang ginamit niya at hinook sa PA... Meaning, there is something about his choice of Plexis which inspires him to play.
I believe in the saying that "it is not the arrow, but the indian." But who would win in a duel between a skilled Indian and an amateur gunshooter?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 02:56:38 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Jack in a Vox,
You wont feel the power curve. It projects good tone at any volume -- highly recommended for club use -- no PA needed -- because you have enough power to project cleans. Question now is? How loud can it go.
In other words, it has perfect linearity? Kung baga, hi-fi effect ang power niya, in low and high volume? Of course speaker cone distortion can change the tone...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 25, 2006, 03:08:23 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Yes, that matters. . Matagal ng gustong malaman ng mga forumites here are
1:) kung talagang maganda ang tone nya. 2:) marunong syang mag gitara or puro lang sya salita.
Like what I said in my previous post, Herbert sounds good but other amps can get the same sound and I have to test it myself. That's my opinion. So, now, 2 out of 2, all I want to know (and probably some of the forumites here, as well) is whether that was Oasgomez playing guitar or not? Just a simple question. Thanks. :lol:
Mystery boy pala siya. Newbie kasi ako dito hehe...
Hindi naman sa mystery boy sya. He ruffled quite a few feathers and stepped on some feet in this forum to get his points across with previous and current remarks. That's just a thing here that if you keep on talking about your great toned gear than you have to back it up with sound clip of the gear and how you play. I think that's just an unwritten rule. Other people with less expensive gear (and with great tone, I must say) can afford to post a clip of their sound and playing capability. So, the question still remains the same (parang ung kanta un, ah, hehe).
I know oas has a reputation in the local forums. But to tell you honestly, you cannot simply judge tone from soundclips. You would be surprised how much difference mic placement makes in the first place. Now when playing comes into the equation, I suppose even Yngwie would sound like himself playing through any rig. If you saw the G3 Live in Denver DVD, you'll see a clip where Yngwie was practicing through some crappy solidstate Marshall practice amp. But if Yngwie sounds like Yngwie through any rig, then why the hell should he setup an arsenal of Plexis and cabs during his gigs? Sana yung practice amp na lang ginamit niya at hinook sa PA... Meaning, there is something about his choice of Plexis which inspires him to play.
I believe in the saying that "it is not the arrow, but the indian." But who would win in a duel between a skilled Indian and an amateur gunshooter?
I know that mostly all the forumites here have some or a lot of infos about the mic placements and how recorded sound is really different from the actual sound. Heck... I saw MIRA SORVINA (actress) yesterday in TARGET. She sure looks different from the movies/tv as she did in person. That's the same thing with sound and we all know that. See, that's why I heard your soundclip of oas' herbert and decide to hear it for myself when I go to the amp shop this weend.
See, I'm not in any position to judge other peoples guitar playing and plan not to. Just curiosity, that's all :lol: . You already recorded the sound of the herbert, still the same question...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 25, 2006, 03:23:43 AM
TARGET? bakets? baka down to earth lang talaga.
to me soundclips are important....it would be a factor for me to decide to go out of my way and go and try it....aside from reviews and the likes.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 25, 2006, 04:15:21 AM
c'mon! let's hear some "inspired by diezel" playing here!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on March 25, 2006, 04:20:18 AM
Quote from: markflo
c'mon! let's hear some "inspired by diezel" playing here!
Video clip dapat, tingnan natin kung talagang walang binatbat yung mga "lousy" amp.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 25, 2006, 05:53:15 AM
Quote from: markflo
c'mon! let's hear some "inspired by diezel" playing here!
+ infiity.
Mark okay lang... bukas baka may Diezel don sa ampshop....we'll see. 8)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 25, 2006, 07:18:58 AM
As I said before I am not set up to post sound clips because: 1) I dont have the equipment and mics to do it. 2) Ibang ang tapon ng amp sa different locations and that includes the Herbert. 3) Not worth the effort. Sound Clips do not capture and will not capture the THUMP of the Diezel and other characteristics of an amp. For example, Avenged Sevenfold's City of Evil was recorded entirely on a Bogner Uberschall and it does not sound like a live Uberschall to me. 4) Ganito na lang, bigyan niyo ako ng soundclip niyo ng current amp niyo and soundclip niyo sa Diezel Herbert para mga tao na lang magdecide. I dont have to prove myself. You guys have to prove where you sound better. Why? Because I already have the amp. If you guys sound better on the Diezel Herbert, then you have to weigh whether it is worth spending an additional US$4,100.
But that being said, we are really busy planning a cranked out demo at the Exile storehouse to test all the amps. That includes the soldano, vht, bogners, bruno, vox and the Diezel -- possibly a matchless. So bring your soundclips to the party and playback on the PA so we can assess which sounds better.
Bob Alvarez has volunteered his backup band. Fidel Garcia will also be playing. We are also planning to invite the Virgin Hunters. Subukan ko rin invite ang Blue Rats. So, I suggest you guys who doubt think that mass produced amps can equal the performance of the equipment above nominate somebody back here to attend and report to you. I also suggest that person bring a digital recorder or something so he can post clips for you guys.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 25, 2006, 07:38:50 AM
PRSman,
You totally missed the point too when I compared the Herbert to Vintage Amps. My point was that there is nothing great about having 50 vintage amps if the sound you are looking for is in a Diezel Herbert. It is wrong a comparison of humility if humility for you is silence then all our yakking on this forum is including yours is now just bragging. My intent on this thread is to express my opinion on the Diezel Herbert. If I come across as boasting, it my right to express myself. So dont judge my character because you ain't God to judge my personality. You can go ahead and judge the equipment.
Jack in Vox,
You missed the point. I was questioned by one of your cronies on the validity of buying based on the recommendation of Ultrasound. So, I explained why they are more than qualified than all of us. The Slash example illustrates the point that Ultrasound is a credible and capable seller of amps. Jack in Vox, have you tried buying an amp from ultrasound? Try it out. By the way, the also sell peaveys, fenders and marshalls. Before you guys slam Ultrasound, subukan niyo muna.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 25, 2006, 08:06:55 AM
this....man/ thing is a lost cause. I would play with oas just to shut his @$$ up but, alas, I can't. However, I am still going to bet that as much as this guy holds to his which-sounds-better arrogance, there will be someone better ripping songs on a guitar with a sub-4,100 amp. I just WISH I would be there to see his face when someone says,"Man, youre amp is expensive and nice but that other guy sounds BETTER."
can't record? funny how you spend 4 grand on an amp yet can't invest in a basic SM57 to record- so you are basically saying, you can talk the talk but you can't cash was your hot air is saying? i certainly hope you play as well as you run your mouth, man.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on March 25, 2006, 08:12:25 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
As I said before I am not set up to post sound clips because: 1) I dont have the equipment and mics to do it. 2) Ibang ang tapon ng amp sa different locations and that includes the Herbert. 3) Not worth the effort. Sound Clips do not capture and will not capture the THUMP of the Diezel and other characteristics of an amp. For example, Avenged Sevenfold's City of Evil was recorded entirely on a Bogner Uberschall and it does not sound like a live Uberschall to me. 4) Ganito na lang, bigyan niyo ako ng soundclip niyo ng current amp niyo and soundclip niyo sa Diezel Herbert para mga tao na lang magdecide. I dont have to prove myself. You guys have to prove where you sound better. Why? Because I already have the amp. If you guys sound better on the Diezel Herbert, then you have to weigh whether it is worth spending an additional US$4,100.
V-I-D-E-O-C-L-I-P...yun lang, kahit diesel or gas o kerosene pa yan amp mo. Sa yaman mo chicken feed lang ang camcorder sayo.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 25, 2006, 08:38:46 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
PRSman,
You totally missed the point too when I compared the Herbert to Vintage Amps. My point was that there is nothing great about having 50 vintage amps if the sound you are looking for is in a Diezel Herbert. It is wrong a comparison of humility if humility for you is silence then all our yakking on this forum is including yours is now just bragging. My intent on this thread is to express my opinion on the Diezel Herbert. If I come across as boasting, it my right to express myself. So dont judge my character because you ain't God to judge my personality. You can go ahead and judge the equipment.
Jack in Vox,
You missed the point. I was questioned by one of your cronies on the validity of buying based on the recommendation of Ultrasound. So, I explained why they are more than qualified than all of us. The Slash example illustrates the point that Ultrasound is a credible and capable seller of amps. Jack in Vox, have you tried buying an amp from ultrasound? Try it out. By the way, the also sell peaveys, fenders and marshalls. Before you guys slam Ultrasound, subukan niyo muna.
In defense of Jack, YES, so what if I HAVE bought from Ultrasound. Have you been to Ultrasound yourself? Do you know what people there are like? I do and like other sales people, they sell what they can. What say you? If you know your salt around the NYC recording community, you would know that Ultrasound ain't the only spot for credible advice. However, what is wrong with your argument, and a point that expresses how YOU miss the point, is to plunk down money on the basis of someone else's advice when you haven't played a Herbert before purchasing it, THEN brandishing about how it is the best sound in the world even though your claim is a purely relative point. Got that? Relative. To say its the best by demeaning others is sad. I am suprised no one has suckerpunched you yet if you do play around town - that is, if you DO play at all. I mean, we haven't heard squat from you at all as far as a short clip. People might not have the best recording equipment here but that doesn't stop them from going out of their way to play to a backing track whatever way they can.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 25, 2006, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: markflo
even if you played the living crap out of it live...it's still not worth the $3200 more...that's just plain crazy...it sounds like someone's compensating for whatever he or she is lacking...
The bottomline is you have to be inspired to play. I don't think Neil Peart would prefer a Fernando kit for gigs, but surely he'll smoke through it. MOreso with his DW sig model kit.
And also, there is such a thing as a bare minimum. If 'tone' was really just in the fingers, why would people want to upgrade and upgrade gear until they get satisfied? Then look back at the gear you used to own. Maybe you would start ditching some for good.
There IS a bare minimum - but to say you have a $2,000 cutoff. Come on, THAT is stupid AND arrogant - not just to other people who can play, but moreso to others who can't afford expensive gear. I mean, you can own all the gear in the world but if you've been playing for years, everyone at that caliber knows that there really IS no cutoff because what sounds good will always be good, no matter the price; such are gems to be had. Its fine and dandy to have good gear but being civil about owning it and being happy about it is the bottom line. Oas COULD have been more gracious about his recent purchase but his opinions are, well, quite outlandish - even for pro musicians to consider.
I am firm believer that the tone comes from the fingers but there are always limitations to your gear as far as what it can give out - especially when you gig. Why do I upgrade? The answer is simple - because I break my sh&T. You DO have to be inspired to play but that does not necessarily mean that inspiration correlates with a need to purchase expensive gear. If you say otherwise, you really aren't worth your salt as a musician and maybe - just maybe - you should go back to thinking about WHY you might have gotten that 4,100 amp. Did you get it because your skills are on par with it? Or did you just get it to brag your balls to everyone else?
Having said that, I think the heading of this thread says it all. The latter claim was the purpose because if it wasn't, wouldn't have ALL the replies Oas posted have been to address questions about the Diezel constructively rather than demean everyone who doesn't own an expensive amp?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 25, 2006, 10:32:55 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.... http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3688552&key=0779617E-4
so thats what $4100 worth of inspiration sounds like? :mrgreen:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 25, 2006, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Even a crapload of mics like an SM57/E609/414 through a Neve 1073 through a Protools HD3 Rig would still not get a good reproduction of the amp, because there is a processed sound due to mic placement and how you mix mics.
My point is, you can hear the 'voice' of the amp even in a low-bandwidth recording. Parang tao. Hindi naman tayo lahat magkaboses sa telepono diba? Lo-fi pero recognizeable pa rin. And since telephones usually roll off at around 4kHz and 200Hz, you still get a decent glimpse of the guitar speaker range...
I am not a techie so I am assuming that the gear you rattled off should be good stuff...
But to your analogy on the "boses sa telepono"... not sure I would continue using that if I were you... di ba ang daming tao na ang pogi o ang ganda sa telepono pero kapag nakita mo na in person mukhang aswang? Parang DJ sa radio... sana walang radio DJ dito... :lol:
The point is, if all you get is a glimpse, how can you convince someone of the quality just by a "glimpse"?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 25, 2006, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: stratman1
Heck... I saw MIRA SORVINA (actress) yesterday in TARGET.
ohmigosh... soundclips... este pictures naman... she is so cute... :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 25, 2006, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
PRSman,
You totally missed the point too when I compared the Herbert to Vintage Amps. My point was that there is nothing great about having 50 vintage amps if the sound you are looking for is in a Diezel Herbert. It is wrong a comparison of humility if humility for you is silence then all our yakking on this forum is including yours is now just bragging. My intent on this thread is to express my opinion on the Diezel Herbert. If I come across as boasting, it my right to express myself. So dont judge my character because you ain't God to judge my personality. You can go ahead and judge the equipment.
Sad, sad, sad... still missing the original point... which was whoever that owner of 50-something amps/guitars is not making the same mistake you're doing by making a fool of himself with all your talk. But again, it's your life. I sincerely hope you find joy in the way you behave.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 25, 2006, 10:56:30 AM
a glimpse is just a glimpse but to say that you can't get a good reproduction of an amp because it is a processed sound even with all the gear you mentioned is an injustice to every single sound engineer who has ever recorded music for a living.
I may not use a Neve or an SSL or even an Icon but I do run things through an HD3 system. Those are some pretty good converters you are talking about and to say it can't properly reproduce sound even with amateurish mic placement is sketchy. If you can't capture your amp's sound with those converters and the basic array of mics you plunked down then, my friend, there is defintiely something wrong with either YOUR acoustics or your mic placement technique. If there is something an HD system is capable of not doing is that it cannot lie about what is being fed into it. Feed it sh&t and you get sh&t.
I mean seriously, even if you didn't know anything about mic placement, how hard is it to stick an SM57 in front of a speaker? Forget off axis positioning or even blending with another mic and then mixing it down again with an ambient room mic. Forget all of that. Focus on the old SM57 right smack in front of the speaker. Even with a basic setup recorded as dry as possible with a basic fireface interface, you would STILL get a fairly legible impression of what the amp can do. I've worked with the ghettoest rigs that you can imagine and it was still possible to properly represent the tone of the amp being miked.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 25, 2006, 11:47:42 AM
Are skunkyfunk and oasgomez one and the same? Like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde? I'm reading the posts and seeing a lot of similiarities in the content... 'just wondering if others have noticed that as well...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 25, 2006, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: PRSMan
Are skunkyfunk and oasgomez one and the same? Like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde? I'm reading the posts and seeing a lot of similiarities in the content... 'just wondering if others have noticed that as well...
they may well be. its easy to be an e-thug behind the computer so all possibilities are endless.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 25, 2006, 12:25:27 PM
just heard it. maybe you guys should invest in a $4100 tuner...
by the way oas...yan ba yung buzz feiten na pinagmamayabang mo rin? :roll:
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'. This was recorded using a Sony Ericsson W800i so pardon for the bad quality. But then, many claim that the best guitar sounds can be heard in the "telephone bandpass" range.
Always remember that guitar sound recordings are always less-than-perfect reproductions of the actual source, so what you hear is not necessarily how it sounds in front of the cab. In this sample, the phone was placed about 1 and a half meters away from the cabs... ;)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 25, 2006, 12:25:35 PM
Quote from: PRSMan
Are skunkyfunk and oasgomez one and the same? Like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde? I'm reading the posts and seeing a lot of similiarities in the content... 'just wondering if others have noticed that as well...
you mean this guy? (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/skunky_funk/DiezelHerbert01.jpg)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 25, 2006, 12:52:12 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Jack in Vox,
You missed the point. I was questioned by one of your cronies on the validity of buying based on the recommendation of Ultrasound. So, I explained why they are more than qualified than all of us. The Slash example illustrates the point that Ultrasound is a credible and capable seller of amps. Jack in Vox, have you tried buying an amp from ultrasound? Try it out. By the way, the also sell peaveys, fenders and marshalls. Before you guys slam Ultrasound, subukan niyo muna.
so if they recommend an AXL amp you will listen and buy it?
of course they will recommend the Deizel to you. you're a godsmacked schmuck who's 10,000 miles away! they will sell their grandmother to you if they can. (no offense meant to ultrasound) i'm just saying, they sold the expensive one to you.. when they could have sold you a $200 fender.
maybe you're just too arrogant to admit that a $4100 amp is not that much better than a $500 amp.
hahahaha :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 25, 2006, 12:55:12 PM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Even a crapload of mics like an SM57/E609/414 through a Neve 1073 through a Protools HD3 Rig would still not get a good reproduction of the amp, because there is a processed sound due to mic placement and how you mix mics.
My point is, you can hear the 'voice' of the amp even in a low-bandwidth recording. Parang tao. Hindi naman tayo lahat magkaboses sa telepono diba? Lo-fi pero recognizeable pa rin. And since telephones usually roll off at around 4kHz and 200Hz, you still get a decent glimpse of the guitar speaker range...
I am not a techie so I am assuming that the gear you rattled off should be good stuff...
But to your analogy on the "boses sa telepono"... not sure I would continue using that if I were you... di ba ang daming tao na ang pogi o ang ganda sa telepono pero kapag nakita mo na in person mukhang aswang? Parang DJ sa radio... sana walang radio DJ dito... :lol:
The point is, if all you get is a glimpse, how can you convince someone of the quality just by a "glimpse"?
i fell off my chair after reading that! :lol: :mrgreen:
great point though!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 25, 2006, 12:57:04 PM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: stratman1
Heck... I saw MIRA SORVINA (actress) yesterday in TARGET.
ohmigosh... soundclips... este pictures naman... she is so cute... :twisted:
Yeah, she is cute. Was sexy, too. Not anymore, at least not right now. She's pregnant, hehe. Belly popping out right now. Still cute though. But she looks so basic without the makeup. I guess that's good so no body bothers her while buying maternity clothes, hehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: spankyrigor on March 25, 2006, 01:27:51 PM
no they're not the same guy. i know one and i've met the other. i think most people who already know oasgomez would agree, as they've said in some threads, that he's not really a [sausage] in person.
rather, i think it's just important to note that sometimes things get lost when you write words down, as opposed to saying things to a person face to face. which is exactly the reason why i don't fight with my girlfriend on the phone or thru text. and i hardly chat.
i just think there was something wrong not with what he said in general, but with how he said it.
as to who played in the clip.. i haven't heard it yet (darn PC got no speakers), but i can guess who DIDN'T play it. :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 25, 2006, 01:41:25 PM
ah..so he MIGHT not be a [sausage]..thats quite reassuring...but you can bet your next siopao that he needs to learn better eneglish because he isn't getting his "non-dickness" across.
funny you mentioned Mira Sorvino in public, I saw Jennifer Love Hewitt once as well as Christina Aguilera. The former was hot as hell even without makeup - even prettier in person, I think - but Aguilera looked very hoe-ish, definitely not someone I'd bring to mom. Imagine trying to defend someone who looks like a superskank!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 25, 2006, 01:49:42 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
..very hoe-ish,
you mean SLUT....sluts are nice on the side.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 25, 2006, 01:57:44 PM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: abyssinianson
..very hoe-ish,
you mean SLUT....sluts are nice on the side.[/quot]
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: toybitz on March 25, 2006, 06:41:29 PM
I can't afford a brand new Peavey Classic 30, more so my dream amp...a Fender Twin Reverb...but I can afford some manners. 8)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on March 25, 2006, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: abyssinianson
..very hoe-ish,
you mean SLUT....sluts are nice on the side.[/quot]
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......
Can I have that to go?
Don't forget the ketchup! :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 08:56:45 PM
Quote from: spankyrigor
no they're not the same guy. i know one and i've met the other. i think most people who already know oasgomez would agree, as they've said in some threads, that he's not really a [sausage] in person.
rather, i think it's just important to note that sometimes things get lost when you write words down, as opposed to saying things to a person face to face. which is exactly the reason why i don't fight with my girlfriend on the phone or thru text. and i hardly chat.
i just think there was something wrong not with what he said in general, but with how he said it.
as to who played in the clip.. i haven't heard it yet (darn PC got no speakers), but i can guess who DIDN'T play it. :)
Spanky, they uploaded miy pic without permission... :D
The Strat was out of tune, (not exactly A=440 or Bb=440) yeah right. Noticed that too. Di ko na ginalaw kasi hindi sa akin...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 09:09:43 PM
Oh yes, oasgomez and I are one and the same. (Sabay limas ng bahay ni Alex...) :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 09:15:32 PM
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Even a crapload of mics like an SM57/E609/414 through a Neve 1073 through a Protools HD3 Rig would still not get a good reproduction of the amp, because there is a processed sound due to mic placement and how you mix mics.
My point is, you can hear the 'voice' of the amp even in a low-bandwidth recording. Parang tao. Hindi naman tayo lahat magkaboses sa telepono diba? Lo-fi pero recognizeable pa rin. And since telephones usually roll off at around 4kHz and 200Hz, you still get a decent glimpse of the guitar speaker range...
I am not a techie so I am assuming that the gear you rattled off should be good stuff...
But to your analogy on the "boses sa telepono"... not sure I would continue using that if I were you... di ba ang daming tao na ang pogi o ang ganda sa telepono pero kapag nakita mo na in person mukhang aswang? Parang DJ sa radio... sana walang radio DJ dito... :lol:
The point is, if all you get is a glimpse, how can you convince someone of the quality just by a "glimpse"?
i fell off my chair after reading that! :lol: :mrgreen:
great point though!
Well the best thing is test gear for yourself. Experience can only dictate what can inspire you or not.
It is funny that Avenged Sevenfold used an Uberschall and sounded like [gooey brown stuff] in the recording. Too fizzy. Maybe they placed a 57 very near the center of the speaker cones. I prefer miking somewhere between the edge and the center when talking about high gain sounds.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 25, 2006, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
this....man/ thing is a lost cause. I would play with oas just to shut his @$$ up but, alas, I can't. However, I am still going to bet that as much as this guy holds to his which-sounds-better arrogance, there will be someone better ripping songs on a guitar with a sub-4,100 amp. I just WISH I would be there to see his face when someone says,"Man, youre amp is expensive and nice but that other guy sounds BETTER."
can't record? funny how you spend 4 grand on an amp yet can't invest in a basic SM57 to record- so you are basically saying, you can talk the talk but you can't cash was your hot air is saying? i certainly hope you play as well as you run your mouth, man.
To tell you honestly, I am still wondering why the SM57 is getting so much recognition in the guitar recording world. Yes it does have some nice pronounced upper-mid tailored response, but what I really don't like about is that it compresses too much hence gives the impression of using more gain that you're really using. Surprisingly, a condenser and ribbon can make a more neutral guitar sound. Mix it with the 57 to compensate for the roundness.... But that's just me...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 25, 2006, 10:39:57 PM
all the sidestepping are already beginning to be confusing for a simple-minded person such as myself. where were we? :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 26, 2006, 12:57:24 AM
ang supot ng diezel herbert...pa na tatry mo yata yang amp na yan, nagiging kupal yung mga nagtatry eh...may curse kumbaga... heheheh joke joke joke
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on March 26, 2006, 01:47:26 AM
Quote from: Al_Librero
all the sidestepping are already beginning to be confusing for a simple-minded person such as myself. where were we? :lol:
One way of backing out when your losing an argument :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 26, 2006, 01:54:33 AM
Quote from: markflo
ang supot ng diezel herbert...pa na tatry mo yata yang amp na yan, nagiging kupal yung mga nagtatry eh...may curse kumbaga... heheheh joke joke joke
Kupal ako! The Diezel Herbert owns you all! :D
Anyway, I just wish that you can try as many amps as you want Sir Markflo. I have heard nice tunes from WPG and I think if you can try as much gear as you could, you can widen your horizon. You can play, and you need the best equipment to complement that, whether it is worth $41 or $4100. Buti ikaw nasa US kaya puwede ka makapagtry bago bumili. Si oas kailangan muna magbasa ng katakot-takot na reviews at mag-overseas calls sa music stores bago gumastos ng pagkamahal-mahal. Kami dito kailangan pa namin magkiss-ass kay oas para masubukan mga boutique stuff para malaman kung worth it ba o hindi. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 26, 2006, 02:59:14 AM
well, thank you for the compliment skunk. and i have tried ALOT of amps. i like most of them. hindi naman ako snob tulad ni oas eh. it doesn't take much to inspire me to play. and it shouldn't either. i agree that you need to invest on good gear to be able to sound decent, at the least. but see, there are alot of factors, too many too mention, to getting good tone. and snobs like oasgomez have this dillusion that there's only one way (the expensive way) to get there.
when i think about it. the diezel isn't that expensive either, if that's the only thing you want and need. guitar + amp...then it doesn't hurt too bad. i personally prefer to use pedals for their switching capability. i chose to spend and concentrate more on them. but see, that's the beauty of guitar playing and gear. there are many ways to get to having a great tone. kanya kanya lang gamit yan eh...
i understand what oasgomez is saying, though. try your amp then try my amp, and see where you sound better. most will probably agree that diezel is one of the better amps, definitely, i'll give him that. if it works for him...great...coz my amp works for me...
what's really messed up is how he's being suck a prick about it which causes people to accept his implied challenge of "my tone vs your tone" or "my tone is better than your tone". it shouldn't be that way. nagiging personalan kasi...which ends up making people challenge oasgomez's personal playing, which we still haven't heard...maybe he's just an amp freak or what not...maybe he can't play jack [gooey brown stuff]...he's too busy making money to be practicing geetar...maybe that's it...whatever
either way, oasgomez...when you pose a challenge on who's better sounding, you better factor in the persons playing and his WHOLE rig...because all those are factors of tone...not just the amp...
just like you compensate your questionable talents with your expensive amps...some people compensate their questionable amps with their "expensive" or amazing talents...so just quit all the [gooey brown stuff] about your amps...we've heard enough.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 26, 2006, 03:35:06 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
this....man/ thing is a lost cause. I would play with oas just to shut his @$$ up but, alas, I can't. However, I am still going to bet that as much as this guy holds to his which-sounds-better arrogance, there will be someone better ripping songs on a guitar with a sub-4,100 amp. I just WISH I would be there to see his face when someone says,"Man, youre amp is expensive and nice but that other guy sounds BETTER."
can't record? funny how you spend 4 grand on an amp yet can't invest in a basic SM57 to record- so you are basically saying, you can talk the talk but you can't cash was your hot air is saying? i certainly hope you play as well as you run your mouth, man.
To tell you honestly, I am still wondering why the SM57 is getting so much recognition in the guitar recording world. Yes it does have some nice pronounced upper-mid tailored response, but what I really don't like about is that it compresses too much hence gives the impression of using more gain that you're really using. Surprisingly, a condenser and ribbon can make a more neutral guitar sound. Mix it with the 57 to compensate for the roundness.... But that's just me...
Odd claim # 1: Uh...no, the Sm57 does NOT compress your signal. A microphone should not compress your signal. Odd fact # 2: Why would you use a gain hungry ribbon mic in front of a high gain amp? Tidbit: the reason why the Sm57 receives a lot of props is because it can take a helluva wallop when you record anythng with it vocals, guitars, bass percussion - and NO it does not have pronounced upper mids, check your charts - those ratings are as flat as a prebuscent chick.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 26, 2006, 10:42:13 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
... - those ratings are as flat as a pre-pubescent chick.
hey... not all pre-pubescent chicks are flat... and... uhmm... it's not like i look at pre-pubescent chicks a lot... nabalitaan ko lang naman kaya i-share ko lang ang feedback... :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 26, 2006, 11:05:43 AM
PrS...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....bigla ko'ng ma spit yung coke ko pagkatpos ko nang bumasa sa post mo. A very good one, indeed. Ok..so maybe the flat ratings of the SM57 dynamic mic is as flat as the salt flats in Cali - how's that? I admit that when I started thinking about what I said I was like,"Now - that's not really accurate because there are a lot of pre-pubescent chicks that are pretty curvy in all the right places." OF COURSE, I wouldn't know about this first hand (note: like PRS, I gained my knowledge through BALITA), I mean, it isn't like I look at them young girls a lot, you know? *Ahem*......*Ahem*
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 26, 2006, 11:32:17 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
this....man/ thing is a lost cause. I would play with oas just to shut his @$$ up but, alas, I can't. However, I am still going to bet that as much as this guy holds to his which-sounds-better arrogance, there will be someone better ripping songs on a guitar with a sub-4,100 amp. I just WISH I would be there to see his face when someone says,"Man, youre amp is expensive and nice but that other guy sounds BETTER."
can't record? funny how you spend 4 grand on an amp yet can't invest in a basic SM57 to record- so you are basically saying, you can talk the talk but you can't cash was your hot air is saying? i certainly hope you play as well as you run your mouth, man.
To tell you honestly, I am still wondering why the SM57 is getting so much recognition in the guitar recording world. Yes it does have some nice pronounced upper-mid tailored response, but what I really don't like about is that it compresses too much hence gives the impression of using more gain that you're really using. Surprisingly, a condenser and ribbon can make a more neutral guitar sound. Mix it with the 57 to compensate for the roundness.... But that's just me...
Odd claim # 1: Uh...no, the Sm57 does NOT compress your signal. A microphone should not compress your signal. Odd fact # 2: Why would you use a gain hungry ribbon mic in front of a high gain amp? Tidbit: the reason why the Sm57 receives a lot of props is because it can take a helluva wallop when you record anythng with it vocals, guitars, bass percussion - and NO it does not have pronounced upper mids, check your charts - those ratings are as flat as a prebuscent chick.
hmmmmm....interesesting.....maybe he has built in compressed ears eh?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 26, 2006, 12:11:32 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
The JSX was too fizzy for me. But that's just me.
...you need to spend MORE time on the amp.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 26, 2006, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
this....man/ thing is a lost cause. I would play with oas just to shut his @$$ up but, alas, I can't. However, I am still going to bet that as much as this guy holds to his which-sounds-better arrogance, there will be someone better ripping songs on a guitar with a sub-4,100 amp. I just WISH I would be there to see his face when someone says,"Man, youre amp is expensive and nice but that other guy sounds BETTER."
can't record? funny how you spend 4 grand on an amp yet can't invest in a basic SM57 to record- so you are basically saying, you can talk the talk but you can't cash was your hot air is saying? i certainly hope you play as well as you run your mouth, man.
To tell you honestly, I am still wondering why the SM57 is getting so much recognition in the guitar recording world. Yes it does have some nice pronounced upper-mid tailored response, but what I really don't like about is that it compresses too much hence gives the impression of using more gain that you're really using. Surprisingly, a condenser and ribbon can make a more neutral guitar sound. Mix it with the 57 to compensate for the roundness.... But that's just me...
Odd claim # 1: Uh...no, the Sm57 does NOT compress your signal. A microphone should not compress your signal. Odd fact # 2: Why would you use a gain hungry ribbon mic in front of a high gain amp? Tidbit: the reason why the Sm57 receives a lot of props is because it can take a helluva wallop when you record anythng with it vocals, guitars, bass percussion - and NO it does not have pronounced upper mids, check your charts - those ratings are as flat as a prebuscent chick.
hmmmmm....interesesting.....maybe he has built in compressed ears eh?
Dude when I say "compressed", I mean that the signal stays less-dynamic than that of a ribbon or condenser. Just do a simple A/B comparison. To my ears, a 57 placed an inch away from the speaker cone center sounds harsher hence gives you the impression of having more gain. That is why most people think that in a recording situation, you must use 30% less of the gain you use normally, otherwise everything will sound too fizzy. Don't get me wrong, I like the 57 but I think it needs reinforcement of another mic to compensate for the lower-mids, preferably a ribbon or condenser.
Notice the frequency response of the 57. It is evident that it starts boosting somewhere around 4KHz-10KHz which I think is responsible for the "fizz".
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 26, 2006, 12:51:09 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
this....man/ thing is a lost cause. I would play with oas just to shut his @$$ up but, alas, I can't. However, I am still going to bet that as much as this guy holds to his which-sounds-better arrogance, there will be someone better ripping songs on a guitar with a sub-4,100 amp. I just WISH I would be there to see his face when someone says,"Man, youre amp is expensive and nice but that other guy sounds BETTER."
can't record? funny how you spend 4 grand on an amp yet can't invest in a basic SM57 to record- so you are basically saying, you can talk the talk but you can't cash was your hot air is saying? i certainly hope you play as well as you run your mouth, man.
To tell you honestly, I am still wondering why the SM57 is getting so much recognition in the guitar recording world. Yes it does have some nice pronounced upper-mid tailored response, but what I really don't like about is that it compresses too much hence gives the impression of using more gain that you're really using. Surprisingly, a condenser and ribbon can make a more neutral guitar sound. Mix it with the 57 to compensate for the roundness.... But that's just me...
Odd claim # 1: Uh...no, the Sm57 does NOT compress your signal. A microphone should not compress your signal. Odd fact # 2: Why would you use a gain hungry ribbon mic in front of a high gain amp? Tidbit: the reason why the Sm57 receives a lot of props is because it can take a helluva wallop when you record anythng with it vocals, guitars, bass percussion - and NO it does not have pronounced upper mids, check your charts - those ratings are as flat as a prebuscent chick.
hmmmmm....interesesting.....maybe he has built in compressed ears eh?
Dude when I say "compressed", I mean that the signal stays less-dynamic than that of a ribbon or condenser. Just do a simple A/B comparison. To my ears, a 57 placed an inch away from the speaker cone center sounds harsher hence gives you the impression of having more gain. That is why most people think that in a recording situation, you must use 30% less of the gain you use normally, otherwise everything will sound too fizzy. Don't get me wrong, I like the 57 but I think it needs reinforcement of another mic to compensate for the lower-mids, preferably a ribbon or condenser.
Notice the frequency response of the 57. It is evident that it starts boosting somewhere around 4KHz-10KHz which I think is responsible for the "fizz".
weird...all my songs are miced with only one sm57 and the amount of gain I record is equal to what I use live........well my amp is attenuated of course.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 26, 2006, 01:04:48 PM
Christ...I can and have done comparisons with dynamics, ribbons, and condensers which is why I know your definition of "compressed" is daft. Why? How? Well, based on your statement that the signal stays less dynamic is completely in contrast with what an SM57 inherently does. If you forgot, the SM57 is a DYNAMIC microphone which response to the DYNAMICS being fed into it. As such, to say that the signal stays "less dynamic" or "compressed" is in direct argument of the design and definition of a dynamic microphone. Even considering the proximity effect of the design on the SM57, your claim of an inch being too fizzy for the SM is wrong. Why? Because unless you are pumping nothing but noise through it, the SM57 can and will take it. Next, the frequency response chart. Here, what does the peak at 4,000Hz to 20,000Hz say about guitars? Nothing. Why? Because although the human hearing range goes up to 20,000HZ, a guitar, bass, or cymbal has no audible amplitude at those frequencies. For guitar, audible amplitude is percetible around 440HZ (80Hz on the low end and 350 on the high end). Even when considering harmonics, cuts, boosts and accents to bring up the brilliance of picking dynamics are made at 400Hz, maximum. Edit any higher than those peaks in the Sm57 chart, and my dog (and other animals capable of high frequency recognition) will be the ones hearing the music because, unless you have part of a dog's auditory anatomy, people can't discern amplitude that high.
So, the fizz you are talking about still falls under the relatively flat part of the graph. And, your suggestion of mixing with other microphones is not because you can't stand the fizz, its because you wish to color the sound in a desireable way. Compensate for the lower mids? What lower mids? There are no lower mids indicated on the graph! Even the low E-string on a 7 string is nowhere near the dipping frequency and the high E string falls short of the "peak" you harp on. Note, Blending signals is acheived by mixing upwards of 3 mic signals together, not because of some "peak," rather, it is to produce a tone that is warm, solid, and nice to listen to; you blend to bring other elements of the song out, plain and simple.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 26, 2006, 01:37:15 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Christ...I can and have done comparisons with dynamics, ribbons, and condensers which is why I know your definition of "compressed" is daft. Why? How? Well, based on your statement that the signal stays less dynamic is completely in contrast with what an SM57 inherently does. If you forgot, the SM57 is a DYNAMIC microphone which response to the DYNAMICS being fed into it. As such, to say that the signal stays "less dynamic" or "compressed" is in direct argument of the design and definition of a dynamic microphone. Even considering the proximity effect of the design on the SM57, your claim of an inch being too fizzy for the SM is wrong. Why? Because unless you are pumping nothing but noise through it, the SM57 can and will take it. Next, the frequency response chart. Here, what does the peak at 4,000Hz to 20,000Hz say about guitars? Nothing. Why? Because although the human hearing range goes up to 20,000HZ, a guitar, bass, or cymbal has no audible amplitude at those frequencies. For guitar, audible amplitude is percetible around 440HZ (80Hz on the low end and 350 on the high end). Even when considering harmonics, cuts, boosts and accents to bring up the brilliance of picking dynamics are made at 400Hz, maximum. Edit any higher than those peaks in the Sm57 chart, and my dog (and other animals capable of high frequency recognition) will be the ones hearing the music because, unless you have part of a dog's auditory anatomy, people can't discern amplitude that high.
So, the fizz you are talking about still falls under the relatively flat part of the graph. And, your suggestion of mixing with other microphones is not because you can't stand the fizz, its because you wish to color the sound in a desireable way. Compensate for the lower mids? What lower mids? There are no lower mids indicated on the graph! Even the low E-string on a 7 string is nowhere near the dipping frequency and the high E string falls short of the "peak" you harp on. Note, Blending signals is acheived by mixing upwards of 3 mic signals together, not because of some "peak," rather, it is to produce a tone that is warm, solid, and nice to listen to; you blend to bring other elements of the song out, plain and simple.
iba talaga kung educated at experienced ang mga explanation...marami kang matutunan :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Zazza on March 26, 2006, 01:46:02 PM
guys just a question...
is soundclicking a standard here in philmusic? i mean what exactly do you gauge? do you gauge the beauty of the sound/tone of the equipment or kung gaanu kagaling mag gitara ung host, i mean SKILL nya?
tsaka san po ba pinapakinggan ung soundclick records? sa PC di po ba? :D
kasi po IMHO, if you choose the former, then there's no point in doing so in the first place. coz it's just a recording, and it will be played with the certain PC speakers and certain bit rate recordings a certain user is using, in other words, the original equipment used to record will not in any way be interpreted AS IT IS recorded, unless the end listener of the recording will listen to it with the same exact set up the recording was made. so parang wala rin diba?
i'm totally naive about the discussions on amps, high end that is, i even have no idea about this diezel thingy. but i do know a bit about PC audio. for example, a user here posted a soundclip with his PC with an ON BOARD Soundcard and something like a third party hardware. then when he posts it syempre pakikinggan na ng ibang user, say a user listener had these generic speakers worth P200.00 o di kaya ung libreng speakers pag bumili ka ng buong PC, o kahit gandahan na natin yung PC speakers, cge like Klipsch promedia 5.1, or any altec lansing XA series. IBA AT IBA ang tunog na lalabas kasi iba iba ang media na gamit, even if he uses the Creative Audigy Z series to record it, or and type of recording (however you record it) kahit i record pa sa pinakamagandang recording studio sa pilipinas. pero kung ang end user uses mediocre audio, indi pa rin maririnig ung true sound na nangagaling sa source mismo. hence, no point for the first factor.
i might be wrong though :oops: pero indi rin e....very unlikely, a $4100 amp, WOW, that's gotta sound good, but it definitely won't sound good recorded then heard in a different platform. mas maganda puntahan nyo na lang sa bahay yung me gamit mismo at dun pakinggan. that's the only way to see and hear if the equipment does really sound good 8)
pero kung SKILL ang mine-measure ng soundclick, ay walang usapan :D
i'm not out to discredit the usage of soundclick in my post sorry po (humihingi na poko ng dispensa this early) pero as hearing is subjective, the equipment is also, IF EQUIPMENT IS THE GAUGE. i'm referring to the end user's PC platforms. correct me if i'm wrong guys :D carry on lads! cheers! 8)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Zazza on March 26, 2006, 01:50:50 PM
going back to the topic. nice discussion :D i learned a lot!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 26, 2006, 02:11:43 PM
zazz, welcome...soundclick is good because its free and it gets the job done. however, there is a fine and distinct line between hearing a song at demo quality and properly representing what an amp sounds like. soundclick WILL show your skill and give an overall idea of your tone but it won't represent your amp tone at its best. then again, this is not what soundclick is for - you record your songs properly to do that. afterall, soundclick has its limitations but that doesn't mean a seasoned guitar player won't be able to mentally note what the amp could possibly sound like in real life.
through soundclick at even the crappiest bitrate, you can still sense how good a person is. at that level of audio, you aren't after what his gear soundslike, rather, you are gleaning how he has developed his style around his gear to produce his level of skill as a musician. ergo, Yngwie will always sound like Yngwie whether its through a 1x10 or a stageful of Marshalls.
true, it takes a lot to record an amp and to properly represent it. this is what CDs, DVD audio, and lossless format filenames are for - to show what an amp sounds like with a player behind it. it takes skill, knowledge of the gear you are recording, and a dynamic working knowledge of how the recording process works to properly represent a song on a whole range of speakers, not just expensive ones. the biggest accomplishment for any producer or engineer is to justify and accurately represent an artists song, feel, and emotion behind a song whether a person is listening through a set of headphones or hi-fi studio monitoring speakers. this goes on to say that EVERY full fledged studio does not just use one set of monitoring speakers - it uses a whole range with difference frenquency responses and characteristics.
the ongoing argument here with the diezel is that OAS claims that no other amp has anything on the Diezel which I personally think is wrong AND ignorant. Why? Because tone is relative and musicianship is gained by emotion channeled through the physical form of skill. You can have an expensive rig but if your heart isn't in it, you aren't any better of a player. Moreover, he claims that he has a financial cutoff for his "inspiration" to kick in which, again, I think is odd because it shifts the premium of his worth as a musician from skill and music to the possession of an inanimate object to further his skill. That is, if it has even improved at all after numerous acquisitions. The point is, musicianship is in your fingers and your skill will be inherent to YOU - the person - no matter what gear you have. The reason we acquire gear is to further experimentation and to broaden our musical palate, NOT to PAD our lacking music skills.
If you suck, you suck no matter what you use. But if you are good, you can make anything shine by bringing out the best in whatever instrument you are using.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Zazza on March 26, 2006, 02:48:38 PM
thanks abyss for the enlightenment boss :D
Quote
the ongoing argument here with the diezel is that OAS claims that no other amp has anything on the Diezel which I personally think is wrong AND ignorant. Why? Because tone is relative and musicianship is gained by emotion channeled through the physical form of skill. You can have an expensive rig but if your heart isn't in it, you aren't any better of a player. Moreover, he claims that he has a financial cutoff for his "inspiration" to kick in which, again, I think is odd because it shifts the premium of his worth as a musician from skill and music to the possession of an inanimate object to further his skill. That is, if it has even improved at all after numerous acquisitions. The point is, musicianship is in your fingers and your skill will be inherent to YOU - the person - no matter what gear you have. The reason we acquire gear is to further experimentation and to broaden our musical palate, NOT to PAD our lacking music skills.
this is the saddest fact. music doesn't have to be expensive to be of inspiration. i insipre myself (taking myself an example) by how my fingers will interpret what i hear, i don't consider even what effects/gadgets or which particular gear to use, i just play along and have a ball! since i don't have the money to buy such :D
siguro sa tone parties grabe ung mga gamit dun noh? sana nga lang they also play at par with those high ends :D kasi mamaya sobrang ganda ng gamit tapos ung solo ng "cotabato" o di kaya ung 4noneblondes "what's up" di alam tugtugin ala din :D :D :D (joke lang po)
but seriously i want to attend these tone parties and check out peeps live it up to their billing, tsaka uzzi na rin heheh
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 26, 2006, 11:24:14 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Christ...I can and have done comparisons with dynamics, ribbons, and condensers which is why I know your definition of "compressed" is daft. Why? How? Well, based on your statement that the signal stays less dynamic is completely in contrast with what an SM57 inherently does. If you forgot, the SM57 is a DYNAMIC microphone which response to the DYNAMICS being fed into it. As such, to say that the signal stays "less dynamic" or "compressed" is in direct argument of the design and definition of a dynamic microphone. Even considering the proximity effect of the design on the SM57, your claim of an inch being too fizzy for the SM is wrong. Why? Because unless you are pumping nothing but noise through it, the SM57 can and will take it. Next, the frequency response chart. Here, what does the peak at 4,000Hz to 20,000Hz say about guitars? Nothing. Why? Because although the human hearing range goes up to 20,000HZ, a guitar, bass, or cymbal has no audible amplitude at those frequencies. For guitar, audible amplitude is percetible around 440HZ (80Hz on the low end and 350 on the high end). Even when considering harmonics, cuts, boosts and accents to bring up the brilliance of picking dynamics are made at 400Hz, maximum. Edit any higher than those peaks in the Sm57 chart, and my dog (and other animals capable of high frequency recognition) will be the ones hearing the music because, unless you have part of a dog's auditory anatomy, people can't discern amplitude that high.
So, the fizz you are talking about still falls under the relatively flat part of the graph. And, your suggestion of mixing with other microphones is not because you can't stand the fizz, its because you wish to color the sound in a desireable way. Compensate for the lower mids? What lower mids? There are no lower mids indicated on the graph! Even the low E-string on a 7 string is nowhere near the dipping frequency and the high E string falls short of the "peak" you harp on. Note, Blending signals is acheived by mixing upwards of 3 mic signals together, not because of some "peak," rather, it is to produce a tone that is warm, solid, and nice to listen to; you blend to bring other elements of the song out, plain and simple.
OK, I will just assume you hear things differently from the way I hear them. And sadly, I just think that a single SM57 just doesn't capture the sound I WANT. Honestly, I just think the 57 has gotten the 'industry standard' label due to the numerous albums it was used in. But to say the industry standard is 'best' is preposterous. Example, I have had no extensive experience using a Neumann U87 by myself, although I have gone to a studio with one, which also had an AKG414. You know every studio owner wants a Neumann, and the U87 is one great buzzword. But surprisingly, the AKG414 came up with better results. I asked the owner why such a popular and expensive mic like a U87 fell short to the great sound reproduction of the 414. He said, it really depends on the singer, but the 414 was much more transparent. But then again, choosing the right mics for a particular sound is always relative. No wonder even Bono sings through an SM58. So there are no rules...
Now back to the subject, bottomline is, I just cannot hear the one-is-to-one relation of the recorded sounds of a 57 and an amp being recorded, especially in HIGH GAIN. I just think a single SM57 cannot replicate the actual sound of a guitar amp. Tried mic placement of sorts but to tell you honestly, a cheapass mic like a Samson Q2 worked much better for me in a single mic scenario. But then again, that's just me. I am not presenting my opinions as fact and we all know that there are no absolute rights and wrongs in recording.
Maybe my use of the word 'compress' was ambiguous. I know what a dynamic mic is, and when I said "less-dynamic", I meant that the 57 just sounded too flat for my taste. Seemed like the nuances are somewhat evened out. I dunno, but that's what I hear. I have also tried using an SM58 without the windscreen and the fizz was much worse.
Maybe what I mean is I hear more air when I am not just using an SM57 alone. I always try to come up with a mic setup that captures the natural sound of the amp, but for me they still don't do justice to the actual source.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 27, 2006, 01:14:59 AM
goma won't post clips because he can't play.
if someone can't be inspired by any gear less than 2,000USD, i think the person can't be a guitarist... the person is probably just a gear collector.
marty friedman played through a tone blaster... so obviously he can play with a cheapo gear and got his inspiration elsewhere... and more importantly, i do believe everyone on the clinic was inspired by him...
gary hoey played on a cybertwin... he was inspiring because he can play... the cyber twin and the fender strat he was using were all below 2,000USD ... still inspiring...
and as the guitarworld article wrote... "steve morse's hands are permanently glued to the fretboard...as legend has it, he drives his car playing through his little travel guitar and steers using his knees..."
at the end of the day, on live gigs, it all boils down to...
1. great music/songwriting 2. great show
and
3. great playing 4. great sound
the only ones who would really focus on the gear would be guitarists- gearheads... and, as cc deville would point out, that's like only 10% of the crowd...
if your gear is great and cost a lot of $$$$ but you can't play, people would pity you and tell you that you ain't doing justice to your gear...
now, if you have cheapo gear and plays great, it would be a different story...
focus on your playing and writing great music rather than boasting about your expensive gear.
nwy... if i may...
maybe we should do that jarhead thingy and put "guitar" in place of the "rifle"...
"this is my guitar... there are many others like it, but this one is mine...without my guitar, i am nothing... without me, my guitar is nothing..."
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 27, 2006, 02:02:00 AM
Quote from: markflo
well, thank you for the compliment skunk. and i have tried ALOT of amps. i like most of them. hindi naman ako snob tulad ni oas eh. it doesn't take much to inspire me to play. and it shouldn't either. i agree that you need to invest on good gear to be able to sound decent, at the least. but see, there are alot of factors, too many too mention, to getting good tone. and snobs like oasgomez have this dillusion that there's only one way (the expensive way) to get there.
when i think about it. the diezel isn't that expensive either, if that's the only thing you want and need. guitar + amp...then it doesn't hurt too bad. i personally prefer to use pedals for their switching capability. i chose to spend and concentrate more on them. but see, that's the beauty of guitar playing and gear. there are many ways to get to having a great tone. kanya kanya lang gamit yan eh...
i understand what oasgomez is saying, though. try your amp then try my amp, and see where you sound better. most will probably agree that diezel is one of the better amps, definitely, i'll give him that. if it works for him...great...coz my amp works for me...
what's really messed up is how he's being suck a prick about it which causes people to accept his implied challenge of "my tone vs your tone" or "my tone is better than your tone". it shouldn't be that way. nagiging personalan kasi...which ends up making people challenge oasgomez's personal playing, which we still haven't heard...maybe he's just an amp freak or what not...maybe he can't play jack [gooey brown stuff]...he's too busy making money to be practicing geetar...maybe that's it...whatever
either way, oasgomez...when you pose a challenge on who's better sounding, you better factor in the persons playing and his WHOLE rig...because all those are factors of tone...not just the amp...
just like you compensate your questionable talents with your expensive amps...some people compensate their questionable amps with their "expensive" or amazing talents...so just quit all the [gooey brown stuff] about your amps...we've heard enough.
"VOTE MARKFLO FOR MODERATOR, THE SEAL OF EXCELLENCE", YES!!! :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 27, 2006, 02:04:21 AM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: abyssinianson
... - those ratings are as flat as a pre-pubescent chick.
hey... not all pre-pubescent chicks are flat... and... uhmm... it's not like i look at pre-pubescent chicks a lot... nabalitaan ko lang naman kaya i-share ko lang ang feedback... :lol:
Ako rin. Yan rin ang narinig ko sa tabibi about pre-pubescent chick :twisted: :oops: :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 27, 2006, 04:01:20 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
Christ...I can and have done comparisons with dynamics, ribbons, and condensers which is why I know your definition of "compressed" is daft. Why? How? Well, based on your statement that the signal stays less dynamic is completely in contrast with what an SM57 inherently does. If you forgot, the SM57 is a DYNAMIC microphone which response to the DYNAMICS being fed into it. As such, to say that the signal stays "less dynamic" or "compressed" is in direct argument of the design and definition of a dynamic microphone. Even considering the proximity effect of the design on the SM57, your claim of an inch being too fizzy for the SM is wrong. Why? Because unless you are pumping nothing but noise through it, the SM57 can and will take it. Next, the frequency response chart. Here, what does the peak at 4,000Hz to 20,000Hz say about guitars? Nothing. Why? Because although the human hearing range goes up to 20,000HZ, a guitar, bass, or cymbal has no audible amplitude at those frequencies. For guitar, audible amplitude is percetible around 440HZ (80Hz on the low end and 350 on the high end). Even when considering harmonics, cuts, boosts and accents to bring up the brilliance of picking dynamics are made at 400Hz, maximum. Edit any higher than those peaks in the Sm57 chart, and my dog (and other animals capable of high frequency recognition) will be the ones hearing the music because, unless you have part of a dog's auditory anatomy, people can't discern amplitude that high.
So, the fizz you are talking about still falls under the relatively flat part of the graph. And, your suggestion of mixing with other microphones is not because you can't stand the fizz, its because you wish to color the sound in a desireable way. Compensate for the lower mids? What lower mids? There are no lower mids indicated on the graph! Even the low E-string on a 7 string is nowhere near the dipping frequency and the high E string falls short of the "peak" you harp on. Note, Blending signals is acheived by mixing upwards of 3 mic signals together, not because of some "peak," rather, it is to produce a tone that is warm, solid, and nice to listen to; you blend to bring other elements of the song out, plain and simple.
OK, I will just assume you hear things differently from the way I hear them. And sadly, I just think that a single SM57 just doesn't capture the sound I WANT. Honestly, I just think the 57 has gotten the 'industry standard' label due to the numerous albums it was used in. But to say the industry standard is 'best' is preposterous. Example, I have had no extensive experience using a Neumann U87 by myself, although I have gone to a studio with one, which also had an AKG414. You know every studio owner wants a Neumann, and the U87 is one great buzzword. But surprisingly, the AKG414 came up with better results. I asked the owner why such a popular and expensive mic like a U87 fell short to the great sound reproduction of the 414. He said, it really depends on the singer, but the 414 was much more transparent. But then again, choosing the right mics for a particular sound is always relative. No wonder even Bono sings through an SM58. So there are no rules...
Now back to the subject, bottomline is, I just cannot hear the one-is-to-one relation of the recorded sounds of a 57 and an amp being recorded, especially in HIGH GAIN. I just think a single SM57 cannot replicate the actual sound of a guitar amp. Tried mic placement of sorts but to tell you honestly, a cheapass mic like a Samson Q2 worked much better for me in a single mic scenario. But then again, that's just me. I am not presenting my opinions as fact and we all know that there are no absolute rights and wrongs in recording.
Maybe my use of the word 'compress' was ambiguous. I know what a dynamic mic is, and when I said "less-dynamic", I meant that the 57 just sounded too flat for my taste. Seemed like the nuances are somewhat evened out. I dunno, but that's what I hear. I have also tried using an SM58 without the windscreen and the fizz was much worse.
Maybe what I mean is I hear more air when I am not just using an SM57 alone. I always try to come up with a mic setup that captures the natural sound of the amp, but for me they still don't do justice to the actual source.
I STILL don't get why you use the descriptive terms "air" and "flat" in conjunction with each other when flat, as it is represented by the graph (and in actual studio terminology) on the SM57 says that it will not boost OR cut any frequencies in your amp. Last time I checked, my hearing was normal and flat sounds, well, just that - flat. No bass. No fizz (whatever that is), and no accented treble frequencies. Hence, as long as you have good preamps - solid state or tube - you SHOULD get a proper or close representation of the amp. I don't claim that the SM57 is the industry standard, I never did. However, I do strongly assert that it gets the job done at representing the tone of, in this case, a Diezel amp with the most basic facilities and signal path available. I am not a mic Nazi and am actually open to any mic combination as is any decent engineer, however, I will stress again that to combine mics is to desirably color the sound for a specific type of approach to a mix. If you want to accurately represent what the Diezel can do, you don't need a ribbon, condenser or fancy combination, a single SM57 will do because it will neither flatter or misrepresent what you amp can do.
There can be no fizz in a mix unless you mess with the EQ on the board. Set everything to flat, run your phase meter and see what it shows. If you want to be even more thorough, daisy chain an oscilloscope to detect what is beyond the range of hearing. If it doesn't show up on the meters, it doesn't exist. And before any issues of stuff not showing up on instruments becomes an issue, these instruments are calibrated to be very, very sensitive so if doesn't show up there - its in your head and the "fizz" is about as real as a 'Kapre."
Why were/ are you using a mic with a windscreen in front of an amp? Windscreens are for preventing plosives in vocalists. Does you amp speak? I've put condensers (small diaphraggm AND largge diaphragm) in front of SVT bass ports and even with a lot of air coming in an out, it is still negligable even while running a signal through a tube pre which, if cranked, can be very, very sensitive.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on March 27, 2006, 04:12:09 AM
Hey, abyss! Doesn't this remind you of the legend of JP22 (http://www.recording.org/ftopic-30855-days0-orderasc-0.html)?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 27, 2006, 04:29:49 AM
it does, I know compression is a valuable tool but easily misused by a lot of newbies because they hear people yelling,"Compression is key!" So, every idiot ends up thinking compression is the magic bullet. Nope. As much as possible, you want to record flat and well at the board with little or no compression if you can help it because it gives the mixing engineer a lot of material to shape the overall recorded tone. IN short, you want the tone to "breathe" - not fizz, not be bassier than it is, not be brighter than it is - you want it to be natural. Desireable and flexible tone are two very different things and, I think, flexible should always be the main focus of every mixing session because you can always improve a great recorded sound later by bringing up specific frequencies to make it sit better in the mix. Whoever says,"Don't worry about the crappy sound, we can fix it in the mix," is an idiot and should be beaten with a heavy microphone stand.
Compression should be used sparingly. In digital recording, you want to compress enough to ensure your signal is around 0db. Otherwise, you are going to clip like hell and ruin your run of valuable studio time. I've recorded to tape as well and it is much more easier because you can run tape to saturation with a lot of headroom before the signal starts breaking up audibly. But even then, the breakup can be tasteful unlike digital clipping which is always horrible to listen to.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 27, 2006, 05:46:32 AM
I don't like compression in my kind of application(dirty).....I like using it when I playing cleans though.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 27, 2006, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: Phil
I don't like compression in my kind of application(dirty).....I like using it when I playing cleans though.
yep..same here. it depends on what tone you are looking for, i think, but performance compression (live use) and studio processing compression (recording for a CD or tape) are a bit different. you add compression live to project a certain tone but you add compression in the studio to contextualize one area of a mix to complement other instruments. A good example would be John Frusciante's tone; it has a great attack for bringing out his syncopations which, in turn, Flea feeds off to drive the RHCP songs.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 27, 2006, 09:23:48 AM
i personally believe that any sound source can be properly represented even through recordings. I'm very "exposed" to the world of car audio. or was "exposed". you'll be amazed at what they use to test for clarity. scheffield labs used to be the standard for car audio tests because they can record any sound source (anything that humans can hear) and present it accurately.
may sense ba? :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 27, 2006, 10:06:15 AM
it does...I have an uncle that works in aerospace design as a physicist and a friend that is a Speech specialist and both of them intricately work in special rooms called an anechoic chamber. this room is used specifically for testing frequency responses, aerodynamics, sound sensitive equipment, and accurate representations of ambient db given off by equipment. i have been in one (my graduate university has one) and it is weird - imagine an acoustically dead room to ensure that quiet is what it is supposed to be, quiet, except that because of the lack of ANY ambient noise, everything you do is immediately dampened by the acoustic tiling on all the exposed surfaces. even the door is specially made in several layers to decouple any vibration and noise from the outside world between the interior of the room and the outside panels.
i wouldn't be surprised if microphone companies commissioned such places for frequency readings if they don't already have several inside ther R&D facilities.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 27, 2006, 10:32:47 AM
i've read some articles on anechoic chambers. closest i've been is when my friend tried to sound proof a room by using a lot of carpets killing the ambient sound in effect. nakakatakot lumunok. i can even hear my pulse, to some degree. parang nakakabingi sa loob. lalo na siguro yung properly set up room.
back to regular programming. :D
when i was attending car audio competi-tions, ang gagaling ng mga setup. at ang busisi ng mga judges. they don't rely on their ears to test for clarity. they use spectrum analyzers and match it to the actual recorded sound source. may data ata na kasama yung CD. the closest wins. an daming CD ng barkada ko na puro scheffeild labs. from classical to bass and drum to drums to just plain bass. may vocal audio pa nga ata.
so based on my experience, any sound source can be recorded and accurately represented. amp manufacturers should be doing this kinds of recordings so people can hear them first before buying them. lalo na yung nasa malalayo.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 28, 2006, 06:13:42 AM
Tested the Diezel Herbert's MIDI switching. I am pretty impressed. It accepts 128 program patches. Switching is silent with a MIDI controller. The position of all 8 switches are remembered by the Diezel. It is easy to store the setting. Just hit the store button twice and thats it.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 28, 2006, 06:35:35 AM
I have never challenged anyone against anybody rather I have said that I challenge people to listen to their current gear against the more expensive gear and notice a difference on the same set of hands -- your own personal hands in the same circumstance of an A/B. The challenge came about because a lot of people here insist that its solely in the hands. And I dont agree because if it were truly so, all you guys will be owning Santa Mesa made guitars and Rage amps because equipment would not matter anymore. But it does more so than others think. By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it. You guys dislike the way I express my opinion yet, the way you express yours is also not admirable. I have already tried not to use cuss words and have been more careful not to hurt feelings.
If it were truly all in the hands, Aerosmith & Metallica will not have tons of gear. Joe Satriani would not drop his Marshall 30th Anniversary head and endorse Peavey JSX. Steve Vai would not release his Evolution 2 pickups. Eric Clapton would not be using a Cornell Tweed replica with Tone Tubby Speakers. Slash would not be now using Vox and a Komet KF50 limited Edition. Ritchie Sambora would not be using two Diezel Herberts on stage instead of his Marshalls. Eric Johnson would not have developed a Signature Strat Model with Fender, more so he would not be picky about his nine volt batteries if it was all in the hands. Van Halen would still be using his Plexi instead of the 5150. Etc. Now you guys tell them its all in the hands...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 06:48:05 AM
you rattled off so many names and brands in that post but you ignore the fact that those guys will make any gear sound good.. and besides they get paid to endorse those brands anyway.
sure we like talking about gear and stuff.. but we dont brag about what we have and we dont belittle those that dont have what we have.. those are the main differences between us and you :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 28, 2006, 06:48:18 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
I have never challenged anyone against anybody rather I have said that I challenge people to listen to their current gear against the more expensive gear and notice a difference on the same set of hands -- your own personal hands in the same circumstance of an A/B. The challenge came about because a lot of people here insist that its solely in the hands. And I dont agree because if it were truly so, all you guys will be owning Santa Mesa made guitars and Rage amps because equipment would not matter anymore. But it does more so than others think. By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it. You guys dislike the way I express my opinion yet, the way you express yours is also not admirable. I have already tried not to use cuss words and have been more careful not to hurt feelings.
If it were truly all in the hands, Aerosmith & Metallica will not have tons of gear. Joe Satriani would not drop his Marshall 30th Anniversary head and endorse Peavey JSX. Steve Vai would not release his Evolution 2 pickups. Eric Clapton would not be using a Cornell Tweed replica with Tone Tubby Speakers. Slash would not be now using Vox and a Komet KF50 limited Edition. Ritchie Sambora would not be using two Diezel Herberts on stage instead of his Marshalls. Eric Johnson would not have developed a Signature Strat Model with Fender, more so he would not be picky about his nine volt batteries if it was all in the hands. Van Halen would still be using his Plexi instead of the 5150. Etc. Now you guys tell them its all in the hands...
Sir OASGomez, I commend this post from you... very diplomatic and reasonable... sana ganito lagi and we can have a healthy discussion about anything, without shooting each other down.. :)
now as for the artists you mentioned in the 2nd paragraph ng post mo... 2 words: Maturity and Economics
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 28, 2006, 06:54:14 AM
My personal opinion on the Diezel Herbert: At this point in time, nothing sounds like it. I beg to disagree with a previous post that some other amp can sound like it. I challenge that person to tell me what can sound like it other than another Diezel. It has it own voicing. And I like the voicing but not because I just have it because I will continue to use my other amps for their own distinct voicing. Diezel Herbert's voicing is unique enough for me to say that it was worth it -- thats a personal preferrence. But, I will still continue buying and I do not mean to say that the Diezel is the be all end all. I collect amps because of their overdrive and distortion characteristics just in a similar way that you can collect as many overdrive and distortion pedals as you want.
Conversely, the Diezel cannot sound exactly like a Marshall, or Fender or Peavey. But for what it brings to the table: Unique sounding channels that ALL sound great at ANY volume and the Flexibility of switching permutations, Marshall, Fender and Peavey cannot match. Is it 3 amps in one chassis? Physically it aint but soundwise it is. Now back to my P12,000 metal panel Marshall Super Lead...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 28, 2006, 07:02:46 AM
Jack in Vox,
When did I belittle anybody? Cite the example. Did I not say try and try? Did I not say that you guys can try out my stuff? Did I not say on certain improvements like Paper in Oil Capacitors that it makes the guitar sound better and I can show it? By the way, I believe it a worthwhile improvement and its not that expensive which anybody can afford. Did I not say look for and try a 2nd hand Japanese Guitar over a more expensive brand new RJ guitar?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Conversely, the Diezel cannot sound exactly like a Marshall, or Fender or Peavey. But for what it brings to the table: Unique sounding channels that ALL sound great at ANY volume and the Flexibility of switching permutations, Marshall, Fender and Peavey cannot match. Is it 3 amps in one chassis? Physically it aint but soundwise it is. Now back to my P12,000 metal panel Marshall Super Lead...
well for 1 x diezel amp worth $4100 thats equal to 1 x marshall, 1 x fender, 1 x peavey and maybe a couple more.. :D
so basically you bought 3 amps in one.. great! :P
we here actually are ok with just one amp in one.. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 28, 2006, 07:10:53 AM
As I said before, if you want to lug around 1 Fender, 1 Marshall and 1 Peavey because it sound great specially the replica stuff. I am for it. But if you want only ONE amp with three distinct sounding channels that sounds great at ANY volume, at this point in time, the Herbert is my recommended ticket.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: spankyrigor on March 28, 2006, 07:27:02 AM
oas.here's a question for you.
lets say somebody puts a gun to your head, and tells you to name an amp for every pricebracket below that you'd recommend, or else you'd die. would you be able to?
$3000-$4000
$1000-$3000
$500-$1000
$200-$500
$200-below
you'd realize that every price bracket suggests level of playing, and level of commitment (hobby or career), years of experience with the instrument... like what tube amp would you suggest to a working-class 25-year-old just starting?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 07:43:38 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
As I said before, if you want to lug around 1 Fender, 1 Marshall and 1 Peavey because it sound great specially the replica stuff. I am for it. But if you want only ONE amp with three distinct sounding channels that sounds great at ANY volume, at this point in time, the Herbert is my recommended ticket.
cool.. everyone who plays at cowboy grill brings 3 amp heads with themm, oh and a cabinet (or three).. or maybe a $4100 amp :)
nice going sport! how realistic is that..!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 28, 2006, 07:44:21 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Jack in Vox,
When did I belittle anybody? Cite the example. Did I not say try and try? Did I not say that you guys can try out my stuff? Did I not say on certain improvements like Paper in Oil Capacitors that it makes the guitar sound better and I can show it? By the way, I believe it a worthwhile improvement and its not that expensive which anybody can afford. Did I not say look for and try a 2nd hand Japanese Guitar over a more expensive brand new RJ guitar?
Damn - you really are one DENSE 'tard aren't you? I really have to meet this guy people, I mean serriously. Why? So I can slap the sh**t out of him. In all my years of playing, I have NEVER seen or met any body as condescending, as dense, as adamant about his misplaced criticisms as this, this..thing. No, he is not a man - no logical thinking person can think OAS' way. As much as the claims say that he isn't a [sausage] - the track record for the hot air that comes out of his mouth is, by far, the most sh*t I have seen anybody spew. OAS, you are worried about not cussing when your opinion, irritability and significant need to one-up people is far more damaging than any cuss word would do. Hipocrite, hipocrite, hipocrite...tsk.
If it isn't in the fingers as you claim, why would Metallica and the other virtuosos sound the way they do? No one would have a signature sound without the fingers driving that tone!!! Where did you learn your logic?!? Wait, were you home schooled? Did you even go to school at all because you thinking and logic is shot. What you are basically claiming is fingers...talent...and the mastery of controlling your body to produce tone is NOT relevant!!! What guitar player can claim that and look at himself/ herself in the mirror and honestly think,"No, I don't have to practice because my gear will compensate for my lack of skill and make me sound better nonetheless."
Oas, I may own a Diezel. and I may own other amps which don't cost as much as a Diezel but that doesn't keep me from losing sight of what matters at the end of the day - A guitar player PLAYS a guitar and the amp, its never the other way around.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 28, 2006, 08:17:09 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Did I not say that you guys can try out my stuff?...
coolio! you just said the magic words! where can i try your amps? pm me na lang. :D
can i take one out to one gig na din? :mrgreen:
ok. thats pushing it. :biggrin:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 28, 2006, 08:25:34 AM
hey hey hey...istap payting ober hir!
(see? i can be impartial)
markflo for moderator! bwahahahah!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: kamalayan on March 28, 2006, 08:46:12 AM
:?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 28, 2006, 08:55:07 AM
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: oasgomez
Did I not say that you guys can try out my stuff?...
coolio! you just said the magic words! where can i try your amps? pm me na lang. :D
i gather the fishing trip was a success, nathan?! ;-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on March 28, 2006, 09:27:51 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Al,
I am also not discounting the possibility that Venus Isle might have a lousy amp specially one of the lower end ones of Peavey, Marshall or Fender. Kung ganoon, talagang talo sila sa Diezel.
When did you belittle anyone? There's your answer, almost all of us here are using those low end Peavey's Marshall and Fender and stuff but I heard and saw with my own eyes that a lot of guys here can make cheap equipment SOUND EXPENSIVE using those low end amps.
As for the gear the reason why all of us here buys more than what we need is that each pedal, amp or guitar is that you just want to try new equipment because w/ each equipment we will sound different but our tone is the same. As for what you've said "the Diezel cannot sound exactly like a Marshall, or Fender or Peavey."
Let Steve Vai play a RJ Guitar thru a Denio Chorus-Dist-Delay directly into a Rage Amp and then let a five year old kid use your rig who do you think the audience/musicians/guitarist will listen to?
As for the artists that you've mentioned can you please tell us if they were using $$$$$$$$$$ amps before they got famous???
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 28, 2006, 09:31:59 AM
Quote from: deltaslim
i gather the fishing trip was a success, nathan?! ;-)
all in the interest of research. :mrgreen: i just wanna see if i should spend the next 10 years saving up for a diezel or if way the cheaper germino club 40 (which i'll spend next 5 years saving up for) is good enough. :lol: :lol: :lol:
the words "fishing trip" bring the words "brokeback mountain" to my head. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 28, 2006, 09:35:41 AM
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: deltaslim
i gather the fishing trip was a success, nathan?! ;-)
all in the interest of research. :mrgreen: i just wanna see if i should spend the next 10 years saving up for a diezel or if way the cheaper germino club 40 (which i'll spend next 5 years saving up for) is good enough. :lol: :lol: :lol:
the words "fishing trip" bring the words "brokeback mountain" to my head. :lol:
hehe... research pala ha. anyway, the bait worked like a charm so... ;-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 28, 2006, 09:35:41 AM
nathan....why don't you just go to arie's place and be done with it...after that you can post your findings here and maybe record it . It's about time we hear clips of the amp played by a high calibre guitar player like yourself....push the amp HARD. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 28, 2006, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: nathanmanansala
all in the interest of research. :mrgreen: i just wanna see if i should spend the next 10 years saving up for a diezel or if way the cheaper germino club 40 (which i'll spend next 5 years saving up for) is good enough. :lol: :lol: :lol:
the words "fishing trip" bring the words "brokeback mountain" to my head. :lol:
the germino looks more realistic. i doubt you'll be able to hold your GAS for that long. :mrgreen: oh, get the purple one. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 28, 2006, 09:47:46 AM
Quote from: Phil
nathan....why don't you just go to arie's place and be done with it...after that you can post your findings here and maybe record it . It's about time we hear clips of the amp played by a high calibre guitar player like yourself....push the amp HARD. :wink:
i was just waiting for him to say its ok to try out the amp. :D wenk. high caliber. :lol: :lol: :lol:
recording it will be a problem. i dont have a decent mic and portable recorder and baka bawal ilakas kasi medyo dikit dikit ang houses in arie's neighborhood. i dont want to torture you guys with my playing and prefer to keep my opinion to myself anyway. :mrgreen:
i want to try his other amps din e. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 28, 2006, 09:54:59 AM
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: Phil
nathan....why don't you just go to arie's place and be done with it...after that you can post your findings here and maybe record it . It's about time we hear clips of the amp played by a high calibre guitar player like yourself....push the amp HARD. :wink:
i was just waiting for him to say its ok to try out the amp. :D wenk. high caliber. :lol: :lol: :lol:
recording it will be a problem. i dont have a decent mic and portable recorder and baka bawal ilakas kasi medyo dikit dikit ang houses in arie's neighborhood. i dont want to torture you guys with my playing and prefer to keep my opinion to myself anyway. :mrgreen:
i want to try his other amps din e. :D
nathan....just use your phone like deltaslim...since oasgomez said the amp sings without an attenuator...then crank that dirty channel volume and just put the master volume at a decent level......we'll see if its true kung the amp sounds really good at low levels...or even bedroom levels. I want to hear a review from a really awesome guitar player. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 28, 2006, 09:55:29 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Eto na ang LO-FI sample sound ng Herbie ni oasgomez, aka 'The Tone Nazi'.... http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3688552&key=0779617E-4 so thats what $4100 worth of inspiration sounds like? :mrgreen:
In a word, nice! I don't care for the hi gain sounds(channel 3?), nor am I good judge, but channel 2 has that classic rock vibe - shades of Townshend. A pro gigging blues/rock gtrst would love this amp. Medyo piercing lang minsan. Yeah, the clean channel kyna sounds Fenderish. I don't know that it sounds more Fendery than a real Fender (by definition, and pure logic, that's impossible), but it gets in the neighborhood. Nice in its own right tho.
I can't afford it nor will I ever buy gear as expensive as such, but it's definitely a great amp for having all those sounds in one package. Congrats Alex. I'm always glad for people who are happy with their new gear. Being very OC about tone, you are prolly ecstatic and therefore this amp really must sound very good to you ears.
Just remember that you don't have to convince people that it's a better amp than theirs. At the end of the day, it only needs to matter to you.
Cheers!
PS - This makes any shootout tougher but I'm still going to play my Blues Deluxe, TM60, and prolly an SFPR if you organize another tone party. Your amps better prove they're $3500 better than my amps! Hehe... :-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on March 28, 2006, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: Phil
nathan....why don't you just go to arie's place and be done with it...after that you can post your findings here and maybe record it . It's about time we hear clips of the amp played by a high calibre guitar player like yourself....push the amp HARD. :wink:
i was just waiting for him to say its ok to try out the amp. :D wenk. high caliber. :lol: :lol: :lol:
recording it will be a problem. i dont have a decent mic and portable recorder and baka bawal ilakas kasi medyo dikit dikit ang houses in arie's neighborhood. i dont want to torture you guys with my playing and prefer to keep my opinion to myself anyway. :mrgreen:
i want to try his other amps din e. :D
when will you be going to arie's place? i want to hear how a high-end amp sounds, hehe. we can record the clips on my laptop. and may papa-check din ako kasi kay arie sa guitar ko eh, hehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 28, 2006, 10:01:26 AM
Huh - is the amp still there at Arie's? I was planning to pick up something sana today...
If I had a $4,100 amp, it would be in a HUGE safe deposit box in a bank.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 28, 2006, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: kulas
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: Phil
nathan....why don't you just go to arie's place and be done with it...after that you can post your findings here and maybe record it . It's about time we hear clips of the amp played by a high calibre guitar player like yourself....push the amp HARD. :wink:
i was just waiting for him to say its ok to try out the amp. :D wenk. high caliber. :lol: :lol: :lol:
recording it will be a problem. i dont have a decent mic and portable recorder and baka bawal ilakas kasi medyo dikit dikit ang houses in arie's neighborhood. i dont want to torture you guys with my playing and prefer to keep my opinion to myself anyway. :mrgreen:
i want to try his other amps din e. :D
when will you be going to arie's place? i want to hear how a high-end amp sounds, hehe. we can record the clips on my laptop. and may papa-check din ako kasi kay arie sa guitar ko eh, hehe.
now there ya go!!!! what a good idea!!!! scooby dooby doo.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:06:23 AM
I prefer listening to Billy Joe Armstrong's punk strumming than Albert Montinola's shredding. Hands down, the latter is far more talented, but his tone really holds me back from listening, and on the other hand, I prefer Billy Joe Armstrong's overall performance + tone. So I cannot say that it is all in the fingers.
Some people really don't get the point. Everyone has gone through grade school Science, right? When you wanna test a hypothesis, there are CONTROLLED VARIABLES and an EXPERIMENTAL VARIABLE. Now, granting that the AMP is the EXPERIMENTAL VARIABLE, and all the rest are CONTROLLED VARIABLES (i.e. player, guitar, cables, fx, etc.), then I suggest you go test the oasgomez' amps yourself, and bring your amp for an A/B test, and see WHERE YOU SOUND BETTER. He's real generous in real life as opposed to the dickhead he's trying to portray. 'Portray' for a lack of a better term.
Ikaw naman kasi oas, try to soften up a bit in the forums. Put yourself in the shoes of a teacher who wants to get a lesson across. Some folks simply cannot be enlightened by imposing your educated opinion. You must learn to segway sometimes. Hindi 'to nalalayo sa "sino mas maganda ang asawa, ako o ikaw?"
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 28, 2006, 10:11:29 AM
i listened to your clip again and indeed i noticed the lack of gain on channel 3 compared to the video of marc seal. might be the guitar you're using. ano ba ginamit nyo?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 28, 2006, 10:13:53 AM
Quote from: kulas
when will you be going to arie's place? i want to hear how a high-end amp sounds, hehe. we can record the clips on my laptop. and may papa-check din ako kasi kay arie sa guitar ko eh, hehe.
this saturday sana.
i'm actually a bit more interested trying the soldano kasi i've tried lots of modelers (line6 pod2, johnson j-station, behringer v-amp, boss gt-6, korg ax1500g) and they all have this "US high gain" amp model that their manuals say is supposed to sound like a soldano slo100. pero the weird thing is, magkakaiba sila ng tunog. so now i want to hear what a soldano really sounds like.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
i listened to your clip again and indeed i noticed the lack of gain on channel 3 compared to the video of marc seal. might be the guitar you're using. ano ba ginamit nyo?
Alex can you enlighten us?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 28, 2006, 10:22:59 AM
i thought you're the one who did the playing? :?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 10:25:01 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Some folks simply cannot be enlightened by imposing your educated opinion.
so you're saying, just because we don't own a $4100 amp, we do not know what good tone is? so just because he does.. his is an educated opinion?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:28:53 AM
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
i thought you're the one who did the playing? :?
Yes but the guitars ain't mine. Used a downtuned custom telecaster for the high gain part and a heavily-modified Jap Tokai Strat for the other parts. Dunno the pickups for the Tele.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 28, 2006, 10:30:57 AM
ah ok. thanks.
oasgomez, what pickup was on the guitars? medyo lacking in gain nga yung channel 3 based dun sa clip.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:34:35 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Some folks simply cannot be enlightened by imposing your educated opinion.
so you're saying, just because we don't own a $4100 amp, we do not know what good tone is? so just because he does.. his is an educated opinion?
You don't have to own a $4100 amp to know what good tone is. But having the chance to test one broadens your horizon. It is up to you to decide if it is worth the dough. But to claim otherwise that "I DO NOT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER" is preposterous. There is nothing wrong with being contented with your gear if you live within your means, but then again, it is like asking, "Why is a Mercedes Benz that expensive if I can own a Civic?" If you wanna know the answer, then go drive both and see the difference.
PS I never drove a Benz ever so I cannot claim a Civic and a Benz are of equal quality.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: kulas
when will you be going to arie's place? i want to hear how a high-end amp sounds, hehe. we can record the clips on my laptop. and may papa-check din ako kasi kay arie sa guitar ko eh, hehe.
this saturday sana.
i'm actually a bit more interested trying the soldano kasi i've tried lots of modelers (line6 pod2, johnson j-station, behringer v-amp, boss gt-6, korg ax1500g) and they all have this "US high gain" amp model that their manuals say is supposed to sound like a soldano slo100. pero the weird thing is, magkakaiba sila ng tunog. so now i want to hear what a soldano really sounds like.
Silverchair used SLOs too. Funny that is not how I think a Soldano sounds in real life. Experience is your best teacher.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 10:41:16 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
But to claim otherwise that "I DO NOT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER" is preposterous.
actually i can say that "I DONT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER!" :mrgreen:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:44:07 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: skunkyfunk
But to claim otherwise that "I DO NOT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER" is preposterous.
actually i can say that "I DONT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER!" :mrgreen:
Maybe, you need to supplement that. I'd rather hear, "I don't need a $4100 amp like a Diezel Herbert because I tried it for myself and it I deem it's not worth the dough, and I can sound better with my Marshall JCM800 2203."
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: kulas
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: Phil
nathan....why don't you just go to arie's place and be done with it...after that you can post your findings here and maybe record it . It's about time we hear clips of the amp played by a high calibre guitar player like yourself....push the amp HARD. :wink:
i was just waiting for him to say its ok to try out the amp. :D wenk. high caliber. :lol: :lol: :lol:
recording it will be a problem. i dont have a decent mic and portable recorder and baka bawal ilakas kasi medyo dikit dikit ang houses in arie's neighborhood. i dont want to torture you guys with my playing and prefer to keep my opinion to myself anyway. :mrgreen:
i want to try his other amps din e. :D
when will you be going to arie's place? i want to hear how a high-end amp sounds, hehe. we can record the clips on my laptop. and may papa-check din ako kasi kay arie sa guitar ko eh, hehe.
Maybe you want me to supplement that by bringing a Mic preamp, mics and mic stand. K ba?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 10:54:46 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: skunkyfunk
But to claim otherwise that "I DO NOT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER" is preposterous.
actually i can say that "I DONT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER!" :mrgreen:
Maybe, you need to supplement that. I'd rather hear, "I don't need a $4100 amp like a Diezel Herbert because I tried it for myself and it I deem it's not worth the dough, and I can sound better with my Marshall JCM800 2203."
yup i should supplement that:
"I DONT NEED A $4100 Diezel Herbert because i can make my cheap-as-chips Peavey Classic 30 sound like a Million bucks."
how's that?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 10:58:47 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: skunkyfunk
But to claim otherwise that "I DO NOT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER" is preposterous.
actually i can say that "I DONT NEED TO OWN A $4100 AMP TO SOUND BETTER!" :mrgreen:
Maybe, you need to supplement that. I'd rather hear, "I don't need a $4100 amp like a Diezel Herbert because I tried it for myself and it I deem it's not worth the dough, and I can sound better with my Marshall JCM800 2203."
yup i should supplement that:
"I DONT NEED A $4100 Diezel Herbert because i can make my cheap-as-chips Peavey Classic 30 sound like a Million bucks."
how's that?
You can never tell unless you try both.
Will Michael Jordan perform better in combat boots?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 28, 2006, 11:00:50 AM
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 11:02:49 AM
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
For as long as the discussion is healthy, it won't. Huwag lang magpersonalan.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: bunny rabbit on March 28, 2006, 11:02:53 AM
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
+1
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: SDMF on March 28, 2006, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
oo nga e...kasawa na yang "my gear's better than yours bullcrap!"
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 28, 2006, 11:04:09 AM
SDMF...marami bang pinoy stores dyan?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 28, 2006, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
hintayin natin maging mod si markflo para ma-lock na nya :mrgreen:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 11:08:46 AM
Quote from: SDMF
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
oo nga e...kasawa na yang "my gear's better than yours bullcrap!"
I would admit oas has better gear than mine, by a mile. But I have heard others smoke through mid-priced gear. We have to acknowledge what we lack, whether it is talent or gear needs. Now do a reality check for yourself and see what you can do to get the gear that would suit your needs.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: SDMF on March 28, 2006, 11:09:04 AM
Quote from: Phil
SDMF...marami bang pinoy stores dyan?
Nasa Louisiana ako ngaun, meron din dito. Actually nde nakaka-miss kasi ung oficemate ko (who's also my roommate) mdalas mamalengke sa pinoy store. Taga kain lang ako. hehehe! :lol:
Sa Georgia meron din, sa atlanta isa.
Pero bro, seriously nung nakaka-kain ako Chippy last month, sarap!! :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vinCe-uv7bk on March 28, 2006, 11:10:01 AM
Omfg di parin tapos tong thrend na toh? :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 11:10:03 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
You can never tell unless you try both.
cool, good point.. im not saying the diezel sounds bad, i'm just saying dont preach to us about buying expensive gear to be enlighetend about tone.
expensive does not mean it is better.
most of us make do with less and are completely happy with what we have.
i just find you and oas a little arrogant when it comes to expressing your love for your expensive gear.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 28, 2006, 11:10:28 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
For as long as the discussion is healthy, it won't. Huwag lang magpersonalan.
i read a few pages its not healthy..a lot of ANGST against that $4100 german amp seething underneath both this and in the yupangco forum. I saw someone commenting that he went thru all that trouble getting the amp and didnt buy the matching cabinet. That seriously affects everything. ..and i think if you come here posting my amp is better than your amp thing coz its worth more my income for 4 years combined a lot of people will get pissed or offended....TONE IT DOWN WILL YA...it is too POMPOUS :roll:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 28, 2006, 11:15:39 AM
speaking of pinoy food in faraway lands..
i had curly tops the other day.. and it blows any chocolates that i've tried here..
err.. or did i just make myself think that? :?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 28, 2006, 11:17:57 AM
Quote
I saw someone commenting that he went thru all that trouble getting the amp and didnt buy the matching cabinet. That seriously affects everything.
come to think of it... it does. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: SDMF on March 28, 2006, 11:18:07 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: SDMF
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
oo nga e...kasawa na yang "my gear's better than yours bullcrap!"
I would admit oas has better gear than mine, by a mile. But I have heard others smoke through mid-priced gear. We have to acknowledge what we lack, whether it is talent or gear needs. Now do a reality check for yourself and see what you can do to get the gear that would suit your needs.
I have a different take on gears kasi...I try to stay away from GAS as much as possible, coz it is not the reason why I got into palying in the 1st place.
For me, its about writing my own stuff. Very liberating talaga. Sometimes, I'd just come-up w/ a riff, then suddenly nag-aarrange nako till mabuo. Sarap. Something I'd call my own! :twisted:
I'd be very uneasy kapag, let's say mahigit 1 month na, wala pako bago nagagawa! Ganun ako e...So conscious ako na may nacreate ako music, nde sa kung anung bagong gear meron ako.
I mean kung gears kasi wala naman katapusan yan e, there will always be better amps, guitars to try out there...Ang may katapusan ung bulsa!! :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: spankyrigor on March 28, 2006, 11:24:36 AM
Quote from: pallas
..and i think if you come here posting my amp is better than your amp thing coz its worth more my income for 4 years combined a lot of people will get pissed or offended....TONE IT DOWN WILL YA...it is too POMPOUS :roll:
+1 sir. another very important point. just felt the need to post it again for the sake of emphasis.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: pallas
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: pallas
i hope this thread goes away :roll: :cry:
For as long as the discussion is healthy, it won't. Huwag lang magpersonalan.
i read a few pages its not healthy..a lot of ANGST against that $4100 german amp seething underneath both this and in the yupangco forum. I saw someone commenting that he went thru all that trouble getting the amp and didnt buy the matching cabinet. That seriously affects everything. ..and i think if you come here posting my amp is better than your amp thing coz its worth more my income for 4 years combined a lot of people will get pissed or offended....TONE IT DOWN WILL YA...it is too POMPOUS :roll:
Siguro naman before you buy a head, you'll ask first if your current cab configuration would be ok. I have seen people match Mesa heads with Marshall cabs and vice-versa. Yes it could be nice to have the matching cab but we do have to ask oas why he didn't get the cab.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on March 28, 2006, 11:30:50 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: kulas
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: Phil
nathan....why don't you just go to arie's place and be done with it...after that you can post your findings here and maybe record it . It's about time we hear clips of the amp played by a high calibre guitar player like yourself....push the amp HARD. :wink:
i was just waiting for him to say its ok to try out the amp. :D wenk. high caliber. :lol: :lol: :lol:
recording it will be a problem. i dont have a decent mic and portable recorder and baka bawal ilakas kasi medyo dikit dikit ang houses in arie's neighborhood. i dont want to torture you guys with my playing and prefer to keep my opinion to myself anyway. :mrgreen:
i want to try his other amps din e. :D
when will you be going to arie's place? i want to hear how a high-end amp sounds, hehe. we can record the clips on my laptop. and may papa-check din ako kasi kay arie sa guitar ko eh, hehe.
Maybe you want me to supplement that by bringing a Mic preamp, mics and mic stand. K ba?
i record lang using the built-in microphone of my laptop eh, matino naman. pwede pa lagyan ng effects, hehe. pero i'm not out to capture the amp's truest essence, just a "decent" clip lang. then i'll go record a clip on the cheapo marshall i have at home using the same guitar for some comparison, hehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 28, 2006, 11:37:51 AM
i think that'll work. just make the recording process the same. post some clips. :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 28, 2006, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: jack in a vox
i just find you and oas a little arrogant when it comes to expressing your love for your expensive gear.
i'm telling you guys... skunky and oas... dr. jekyll and mr. hyde...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 28, 2006, 01:12:01 PM
hehehehe.
anyway, sana matuloy yung mga balak mag record. maybe once and for all we can get a straight answer from someone (other than alex) whether or not all those Marshalls, Fenders, Peaveys and whatnot have got nothing on Alex's Diezel Herbert. while all the sidestepping brought about lots of useful info (i learned a lot from abyssinianson), we've strayed too far from this question.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: jack in a vox
i just find you and oas a little arrogant when it comes to expressing your love for your expensive gear.
i'm telling you guys... skunky and oas... dr. jekyll and mr. hyde...
Oh I wish. No joke to own a Soldano SLO100, Bogner Uberschall, VHT Ultralead, Rivera TBR1, modded Vox AC30 w/ Blue Bulldogs, Marshall 30th Anniversary, Diezel Herbert (his latest acquisition) and all the $hit he has. If I appraise my gear it is probably 2% of what he owns.
Teka sandali, oas is this an insult to you if they think we're one and the same? :D Tumugtog ka na nga kasi at magrecord dahil kahit Blink 182 pa-strum strum lang maganda pa rin FOR ME ang tunog.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 28, 2006, 03:31:58 PM
I didn't know the guy had an SLO...I had one - hated it - it had the glassiest tone I had ever heard in an amp that I just hated hearing myself through it. I had the thing less than I year and happily traded it for something else. if I could drop by and record the guitar/ amp shoot out, I would as I have access to recording gear but I personally think as long as you have a decent set of mics and have a good interface capable of recording at least at 32 bit float into some good coverters you will be all set. i will have to occupy the spectator seat for now:(
why don't you guys befriend one of the local electronic musicians? they would have access to some pretty high end recording equipment, maybe even a good mixer if they use mixers for routing their outboard gear.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 28, 2006, 03:36:54 PM
sa lahat na amp na nasa lista nya....wala dyan ang mga amp gusto kong matry...Bogner Ecstasy and the VHT Pitbull.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 28, 2006, 03:41:10 PM
Phil, the Pitbull is a NICE amp...as is the Shiva...but the GAS, good lord, I must keep it under control!!! Argggghhhh.....
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on March 28, 2006, 03:50:08 PM
hayy buti pa kayo, can afford the nicer amps. eh ako? all i want is a nice tube amp combo na may 10-12" speaker lang. perfect sana yung peavey classic 30 eh, pero mahal eh, hehe. mahirap maging dukhaaaa!!! hehe
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Taoistguitarist on March 28, 2006, 04:07:59 PM
oo nga simpleng tao lang kami :D a classic 30 would be heaven for me :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 28, 2006, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
why don't you guys befriend one of the local electronic musicians? they would have access to some pretty high end recording equipment, maybe even a good mixer if they use mixers for routing their outboard gear.
good suggestion, since sa Exile warehouse naman gagawin. I'm sure they have very good gear na pwedeng gamitin to record.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 28, 2006, 04:21:14 PM
personally di ako masyado maka-relate sa comparison ng tones kasi ang reference ko ng good tone iba (ie, classic/vintage blues, rock, country, etc.). medyo weird nga dito kasi usually ang mga tone snobs sa ibang forums like FDP, TDPRI, yun din ang reference tone.
but i'm learning a lot from the exchanges tho (specially abyss). carry on boys and play nice!
PS - next time sana i-discuss natin tone ng acoustic guitars. mahirap i-tweak yun at less variable sa player, so dapat may knowledge ka pag bibili ka.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on March 28, 2006, 04:31:38 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
personally di ako masyado maka-relate sa comparison ng tones kasi ang reference ko ng good tone iba (ie, classic/vintage blues, rock, country, etc.). medyo weird nga dito kasi usually ang mga tone snobs sa ibang forums like FDP, TDPRI, yun din ang reference tone.
but i'm learning a lot from the exchanges tho (specially abyss). carry on boys and play nice!
PS - next time sana i-discuss natin tone ng acoustic guitars. mahirap i-tweak yun at less variable sa player, so dapat may knowledge ka pag bibili ka.
i totally agree! ang saya ng acoustic guitars eh... pero feeling ko talo na agad tayo sa acoustics ni doc farseer... hehehe. martin, taylor, chaka santa cruz... san ka pa? hehehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 28, 2006, 04:31:52 PM
deltaslim, learning is great and I definitely learned a lot from the wonderful people here, especially from the different techniques and sounds they use in their songs on soundclick. Buti naman ang nice sa mga tao dito na makipag-share sila sa kanilang skills - I am amazed by the level of skill these guys are at as musicians.
Also, I would suggest that if you guys do get to record the amps side by side, set all the knobs to flat (12 o'clock) so at least that part of the tone varriable is more or less made uniform throughout.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 28, 2006, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
I didn't know the guy had an SLO...I had one - hated it - it had the glassiest tone I had ever heard in an amp that I just hated hearing myself through it. I had the thing less than I year and happily traded it for something else. if I could drop by and record the guitar/ amp shoot out, I would as I have access to recording gear but I personally think as long as you have a decent set of mics and have a good interface capable of recording at least at 32 bit float into some good coverters you will be all set. i will have to occupy the spectator seat for now:(
why don't you guys befriend one of the local electronic musicians? they would have access to some pretty high end recording equipment, maybe even a good mixer if they use mixers for routing their outboard gear.
The SLO reminds me too much of hair metal. But I think it had the fluid-est lead tone so far. Legato heaven...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 28, 2006, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
personally di ako masyado maka-relate sa comparison ng tones kasi ang reference ko ng good tone iba (ie, classic/vintage blues, rock, country, etc.).
me too. kaya sakin ok lang kung single channel or if its a one trick pony as long as its a very good trick.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: titser_marco on March 28, 2006, 05:38:16 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it.
Ditto. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 28, 2006, 05:53:18 PM
Quote from: titser_marco
Quote from: oasgomez
By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it.
Ditto. :D
Uh no - its STILL in the hands, otherwise practice, talent, and even more perseverance to master your instrument wouldn't matter, now would it? Its because of claims such as these that makes me seriously think how well Oas can cash the hot air his ass dishes out. Does all your gear get actively used to their full potential or do they just stay at home to be pretty and to use as bragging rights? And testimony? Talking about gear is a testimony that, yes, we all play and, yes, we can't all afford to buy expensive stuff but THAT doesn't keep us from sharing what we CAN do with what we have. If THAT - the very act of sharing music made with different tools is not a testimony to the fact that hands DO matter, then someone whup my ass because all these years of playing would have added up to nothing because buying a nice amp would have made me sound better than all the hours of practice I put into learning my guitar:)
Its sad how someone with all that gear can so easily disregard the important role of feel and emotion driven by a honed technique....again, its the player that PLAYS the guitar and amp, not the other way around.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 28, 2006, 08:26:13 PM
Quote from: titser_marco
Quote from: oasgomez
By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it.
Ditto. :D
I disagree. We talk about gear because we are prone to GAS and obssess about tone (which is different from technique, including the intellectual technique to tweak gear and physical technique to play it). Car enthusiasts buy lots of car stuff too, but they know it doesn't make them better drivers.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 28, 2006, 09:14:28 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
deltaslim, learning is great and I definitely learned a lot from the wonderful people here, especially from the different techniques and sounds they use in their songs on soundclick. Buti naman ang nice sa mga tao dito na makipag-share sila sa kanilang skills - I am amazed by the level of skill these guys are at as musicians.
Also, I would suggest that if you guys do get to record the amps side by side, set all the knobs to flat (12 o'clock) so at least that part of the tone varriable is more or less made uniform throughout.
abyss - yeah, dami magaling dito. makes me wonder why i should even have the occasional GAS when 9 out of 10 of these guys can kick my butt playing gtr. mas ok kung "Talent Acquisition Syndrome" na lang ang root ng awayan dito (unlike tone, at least mas madaling i-prove kung sino mas magaling).
marami ding generous mag-share ng info/knowledge. kaso, altho ang daming batuhan ng information and knowledge, ang kulang pa rin dito, WISDOM!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 28, 2006, 09:24:10 PM
ouch. hehehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: namida on March 29, 2006, 12:26:30 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it.
Gear is a factor, but if it must end there, i might as well drop my dreams. But its not like that thank goodness. I'm all about goosebumps, no amount of gear can give me that i suppose :) Can you give me goosebumps?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 29, 2006, 12:42:30 AM
Delta, yes wisdom seems to be lacking in a lot of us, myself included. I just think it is very hard to drive a point to everyone. (Or should we do that in the first place?) Whether you go the controversial a-hole approach, or timid and forgiving approach, people may or may not take your points well. Funny that even some folks speculated oas and I are one person. :D
Playing aside, I know Pinoys deserve more than what they're getting. Some emo bastards in the US are getting all the gear they want, while many more deserving Pinoys are stuck with their cheap gear, when their gear can't do justice to their talent. Many foreign record producers complain about our record production values, and often they comment on the drum and guitar sounds as too sterile or too processed. Maybe if we would all have an open mind, and if God allows, if for some far-fetched reason we become some world superpower, Diezels vs. Bogners vs. vintage amps can be a boring topic.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 29, 2006, 12:56:40 AM
Quote from: Al_Librero
yeah... 180 watts do seem a tad too much for a bedroom amp. :lol:
Now that Ampeg I saw at Guitar Center. Looks nice and scary at the same time. I would've bought the thing... if I only had a little more space in my compact Hyundai... :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 29, 2006, 04:55:23 AM
Quote from: deltaslim
Car enthusiasts buy lots of car stuff too, but they know it doesn't make them better drivers.
that's a great way to look at it bro! i couldn't have said it better myself.
you can buy all that gear but it does not make you better. ;)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 29, 2006, 06:25:42 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Delta, yes wisdom seems to be lacking in a lot of us, myself included. I just think it is very hard to drive a point to everyone. (Or should we do that in the first place?) Whether you go the controversial a-hole approach, or timid and forgiving approach, people may or may not take your points well. Funny that even some folks speculated oas and I are one person. :D
Playing aside, I know Pinoys deserve more than what they're getting. Some emo bastards in the US are getting all the gear they want, while many more deserving Pinoys are stuck with their cheap gear, when their gear can't do justice to their talent. Many foreign record producers complain about our record production values, and often they comment on the drum and guitar sounds as too sterile or too processed. Maybe if we would all have an open mind, and if God allows, if for some far-fetched reason we become some world superpower, Diezels vs. Bogners vs. vintage amps can be a boring topic.
The emo "bastards" might be getting the gear that they want but they also have to tour relentlessly to support their record. The gear does not come free, mind you, because a lot of companies sell to labels or artists at a specific artist discount agreed upon between the manufacturer and the artist that will be getting the instruments. And as far as touring, a lot of Pinoy's also think that it is glamorous to tour in the US which is - Hah - really not the case. I know a few guys signed currently to Solidstate and Victory and they tour like nuts for 2 years at a time cramped inside a Dodge Ram van with your other band mates and everything you need to wear and survive. Ever gone a week not having took a bath or brushed your teeth because you can't stop to stay at a place otherwise you'll miss your next gig two states over? Oh yeah, you can suggest driving fast too except that some states have notorious police that LOVE speeders and will demand you to pay $250 and show up for a court date, otherwise you get the violation on your record, your insurance premium goes up, and you loose $250 dollars - money you and your band COULD have used to find a motel to take a bath or eat something healthier other than truckstop twinkies and Mcdonalds.
How, might you ask do I know all this? One, I played out a lot (before confining myself in a studio more and more because I hated playing out a lot) and, two, my brother actually tours. He was out for 2 months touring the east coast in a Dodge caravan and, although they had endorsements, they still had to tour to spread the word about their band, pay for record duplication fees, sell merch, get noticed by more people, and build up a following. Sending out CDs is well and good but in the US, a studio band ain't worth squat. Coffee houses? Who's gonna watch you? Hippies and yuppies on their laptops? Here, the band with the a great live show is king because nothing spreads the word faster than wildfire. In a sense, touring behind your band is one of the most difficult things to do as a band in the US because the country is big, people are fickle, and they demand to see you live to give you ANY recognition. Without any of these three going for your band - you are not going to go anywhere, and you will have owed money to your label for nothing.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: turiguiliano on March 29, 2006, 07:16:43 AM
OT: cool thread. im really learning a lot. Mark!!! Tubes coming up!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: SDMF on March 29, 2006, 09:42:04 AM
Quote from: deltaslim
... mas ok kung "Talent Acquisition Syndrome" na lang ang root ng awayan dito (unlike tone, at least mas madaling i-prove kung sino mas magaling).
Yan ang wala pa akong nakikitang thread dito. :lol: Or ung nag-aangasan sa playing skills instead of gears! that wud be interesting. :twisted: :lol: tipong..."Dude, are you sure that's in key??!" :mrgreen:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 29, 2006, 12:00:16 PM
Quote from: SDMF
Quote from: deltaslim
... mas ok kung "Talent Acquisition Syndrome" na lang ang root ng awayan dito (unlike tone, at least mas madaling i-prove kung sino mas magaling).
Yan ang wala pa akong nakikitang thread dito. :lol: Or ung nag-aangasan sa playing skills instead of gears! that wud be interesting. :twisted: :lol: tipong..."Dude, are you sure that's in key??!" :mrgreen:
We've had enough of that $h1+ in the gigs. Lagayan nang lagayan, kahit hindi mo tugtog hahanapin sa 'yo.
You know one of the major gripes of the professional musicians is this 'lagayan' culture. One time Tata Balane, Southborder's bassist, was asked to jam in a jazz number, UNREHEARSED. Tata, being the proficient groove player he is, was hesitant to play because jazz really wasn't his bag. So when he performed the number, they found him just an 'ok' player.
Just because you can play Erotomania and I can't doesn't mean you're better than me. Because probably I can play Giant Steps and you can't. If ever there would be something worse than quarrels on gear, that would be quarrels on musicianship, as in "I can play my ass off and you can't". The competition is stiff, and the genre wars are adding to the pressures.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on March 29, 2006, 12:19:38 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
You know one of the major gripes of the professional musicians is this 'lagayan' culture. One time Tata Balane, Southborder's bassist, was asked to jam in a jazz number, UNREHEARSED. Tata, being the proficient groove player he is, was hesitant to play because jazz really wasn't his bag. So when he performed the number, they found him just an 'ok' player.
I can relate...
I was jammin' with some buddies in a small bar where the crowd ain't exactly 'B-class'. After finishing off a couple of Collective Soul tunes, a couple of drunks come up and request <cringe> AIR SUPPLY! :shock:
You can imagine the applause afterwards.... "More! More!.... More practice!" :evil:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 29, 2006, 01:00:56 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
I have never challenged anyone against anybody rather I have said that I challenge people to listen to their current gear against the more expensive gear and notice a difference on the same set of hands -- your own personal hands in the same circumstance of an A/B. The challenge came about because a lot of people here insist that its solely in the hands. And I dont agree because if it were truly so, all you guys will be owning Santa Mesa made guitars and Rage amps because equipment would not matter anymore. But it does more so than others think. By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it. You guys dislike the way I express my opinion yet, the way you express yours is also not admirable. I have already tried not to use cuss words and have been more careful not to hurt feelings.
thing is, expensive gear could sound like [gooey brown stuff] with incapable hands... while inexpensive gear can sound great with capable hands...
now, as far as for the same hands, it really shouldn't matter if it's expensive or not, because tone is preference... look at vai ditching bogner and vht for example... look at dimebag who used to just play solid state randalls... and krank amps are not really like $2000+ amps when he made the switch.
Quote
If it were truly all in the hands, Aerosmith & Metallica will not have tons of gear. Joe Satriani would not drop his Marshall 30th Anniversary head and endorse Peavey JSX. Steve Vai would not release his Evolution 2 pickups. Eric Clapton would not be using a Cornell Tweed replica with Tone Tubby Speakers. Slash would not be now using Vox and a Komet KF50 limited Edition. Ritchie Sambora would not be using two Diezel Herberts on stage instead of his Marshalls. Eric Johnson would not have developed a Signature Strat Model with Fender, more so he would not be picky about his nine volt batteries if it was all in the hands. Van Halen would still be using his Plexi instead of the 5150. Etc. Now you guys tell them its all in the hands...
this is plain stupid at best.
you forget for example that satch's tone varies for every album... also with steve vai... if you haven't noticed that, work on getting your ears to work okay... and talking about eric johnson, can you tell the difference between him using a les paul, es335 or strat on "cliffs of dover"?
you have forgotten that these guys have skills and ears that you can only dream about... they're way beyond playing and gear...
also, i should remind you the story of evo and the evolution pickup that vai had taped.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 29, 2006, 01:24:57 PM
Quote from: KitC
I can relate...
I was jammin' with some buddies in a small bar where the crowd ain't exactly 'B-class'. After finishing off a couple of Collective Soul tunes, a couple of drunks come up and request <cringe> AIR SUPPLY! :shock:
You can imagine the applause afterwards.... "More! More!.... More practice!" :evil:
:lol: been there too! nakakainis na nakakatawa :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: SDMF on March 29, 2006, 01:40:55 PM
dun sa quote about Aerosmith w/ tons of gear...I think I read somewhere that the band wasnt that particular w/ gears kaya iba iba gamit nila noon, coz they know they can still sound like Aerosmith...Alam ko nga nka Ibanez pa dati si Joe Perry nung 80's.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 29, 2006, 01:46:31 PM
hahaha...Air Supply...sad to say I never learned any sap-rock tunes, I didn't grow up during that era. I started playing around the late 80's when hair metal was the norm and during the grunge era when attitude bolstered technique.
However, I hdid experience something like that during a blues gig when some guy in the back started yelling, "Slayer!! Slayer!!" I was only too happy to tickle his fancy with the first few phrases of,"War Ensemble."
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Poundcake on March 29, 2006, 02:42:05 PM
hahaha... buti walang nagrequest ng "ISLO RAK" tunes like "Wind of Change," any Michael Learns to Rock song or the timeless "Sweet Child O' Mine!" :D :D :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 29, 2006, 02:45:35 PM
Quote from: VenusIsle_5150
hahaha... buti walang nagrequest ng "ISLO RAK" tunes like "Wind of Change," any Michael Learns to Rock song or the timeless "Sweet Child O' Mine!" :D :D :D
..or Makarena.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 29, 2006, 03:24:21 PM
Or EKI BREKI HART :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 29, 2006, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: VenusIsle_5150
hahaha... buti walang nagrequest ng "ISLO RAK" tunes like "Wind of Change," any Michael Learns to Rock song or the timeless "Sweet Child O' Mine!" :D :D :D
actually dati may nagrequest ng always somewhere (scorpions din) ba yun? that really floored me. di ko naiwasan tumawa sa stage :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: tumorwarrior on March 29, 2006, 04:43:46 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
fretburner,
A little bit of trivia. Diezel actually began by first servicing recording studios. For about a certain time period, hindi siya availaible sa general public. It was actually recording producers and engineers who first bought these amps because they wanted to replace their Marshalls and Fenders in the studios.
kadyot lang! kadyot lang...
kuk-kuruk-kuku... bakit kaya di makapagproduce ng recorded clip?
siguro kasi... :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Poundcake on March 29, 2006, 05:22:05 PM
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
Quote from: VenusIsle_5150
hahaha... buti walang nagrequest ng "ISLO RAK" tunes like "Wind of Change," any Michael Learns to Rock song or the timeless "Sweet Child O' Mine!" :D :D :D
actually dati may nagrequest ng always somewhere (scorpions din) ba yun? that really floored me. di ko naiwasan tumawa sa stage :lol:
haha.. alam mo naman sa mga typical bars/pubs dito sa pinas usong-uso ang ISKORPYON at BUN JUBE! haha!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 29, 2006, 05:36:34 PM
Quote from: tumorwarrior
Quote from: oasgomez
fretburner,
A little bit of trivia. Diezel actually began by first servicing recording studios. For about a certain time period, hindi siya availaible sa general public. It was actually recording producers and engineers who first bought these amps because they wanted to replace their Marshalls and Fenders in the studios.
kadyot lang! kadyot lang...
kuk-kuruk-kuku... bakit kaya di makapagproduce ng recorded clip?
siguro kasi... :lol:
Tumor, Don't worry about Oas...what he is saying is not true. Trust me. I've already brought up the topic with a few studio engineers to see if he was right (even though the claim is stupid as hell but I wanted to make sure, just in case) and they emphatically asked,"Why would you do THAT? A Marshall is a Marshall as is a Fender and a Diezel. The voicings are different for each amp. Who is this guy that said this?" Fact is, a studio - any reputable studio caters to a wide variety of tastes and preferences in tone and gear. For instance, NRG in Cali stocks a wall of different amps that just happens to include a couple of Diezels but - lo and behold - they even have (among others) Marshall Plexis, a Silver Jubilee, a couple original Rectifiers, even some VHT, old Fenders, and Bogners.
The BS flag was raised on this guy a while ago but he just likes to shoot his sh*t.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: tumorwarrior on March 29, 2006, 06:14:48 PM
:D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 29, 2006, 08:03:42 PM
Why would they replace Marshalls and Fenders? because a Diezel Herbert can sound better than Fenders and Marshalls.
Even your so called studios dont have the complete catalog of Marshall and Fender amps. Namili rin sila.
If you have a beef against expensive equipment say so. Dont take it personally on me. Kung siguro US$500 ang Diezel Herbert, wala ka sigurong angal. Pero kailan mo nga siya uli huling nasubukan at narining? Paano mo nga na test ang Diezel Herbert?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 29, 2006, 08:15:24 PM
This is Guitar Player's review. Kung pati Guitar Player [avocado] mo rin, may problema ka na siguro sa tenga mo.
The Herbert’s three channels cover an impressive range of sounds. While some multi-channel amps favor higher-gain textures, the Herbert is remarkable in its ability to provide impressive clean tones as well. Channel 1 conveys clean with astounding headroom and punch, yet there’s always a sense of resiliency in the dynamic response that keeps the feel from becoming stiff or sterile. Channel 2 is the versatility champ thanks to the additional range provided by its Gain-Boost switch. In low-gain mode, it can cover tweed-like grind, Brit-flavored crunch, and even totally nail the Van Halen “brown” sound. Activate the Gain-Boost and there’s enough rage for old-school metal or shred solos. Channel 3 delivers the extreme gain demanded by today’s nu-metal players, while the Mid Cut control lets you dial-in the perfect amount of scoop. And, thanks to the Mid Cut’s programmability, you can preset it for wicked rhythm chunk, and then bypass the scoop for more forceful solos.
The highest-gain tones reveal the true value of the Herbert’s extra horsepower. Yes, six output tubes can produce authoritative tones at frighteningly loud levels, but the real benefit here is enhanced low-end control. There’s simply no substitute for raw power when you’re talking about low-end slam.
Paving the way for a new breed of 21st-century super amps, the Herbert boldly ventures into uncharted territory with a spectrum of sounds that leaves little to be desired. This German tone machine would rule on the basis of its second channel alone, and when you consider its plethora of hip features, and its ability to sound impressive even at low volumes, it’s clear that the Herbert has few rivals.
For those who seek a truly über high-gain tube amp, and have the bank to afford it, there’s no substitute for the Herbert."
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 29, 2006, 08:20:02 PM
This a review from Tone Merchants:
In terms of versatility, it's hard for me to imagine an all-tube amp with more features and tonal flexibility. From a modern yet lush clean sound with virtually infinite headroom to warm vintage type of cleans to bluesy overdrive to AC/DC type of crunch to early-VH distortion to fat saturated leads to the most over-the-top high-gain sounds with huge bass that is never obese or obtrusive, the Herbert delivers any kind of electric guitar sound imaginable while keeping its totally unique sonic character. I like to play super clean acoustic jazz type of music to classic rock to 80's shred to the heaviest metal possible for kicks, and the Herbert delivers in each category with authority and complex detail.
The Herbert has three channels, all with independent EQ controls. Channel one doesn't have a gain control but it isn't necessary since it's supposed to produce the cleanest sound possible with maximum headroom. A truly unique feature of this amp is the assignable (switchable via MIDI, footswitch or manually on the front panel) Mid-Cut section. In the clean channel, it can give an acoustic quality to the electric guitar. In the high-gain channel, it converts a fat singing distortion sound into a huge scooped-mid metal sound that is brutally menacing yet coherent and punchy. The Herbert also features an assignable second master volume. Instead of a boost function that merely adds more gain on so many amps of this type, the second master allows the player to dial in a louder or softer volume level for a particular channel's sound with or without the Mid-Cut engaged.
The Herbert features 3 effects loops: one serial, one parallel with a wet mix control, and a serial switchable loop that you can assign to any channel (and combination of Mid-Cut and 2nd master volume settings) as a stored preset. There are also compensated line out and a tuner out jacks on the back. There are 5 speaker-out jacks to run various cabinet configurations as well.
The power section of the Herbert features six output tubes. It now comes stock with six EH EL-34's, but this particular unit I have has a quartet of EH EL-34's and a duet of EH 6L6's. I decided to keep the 6L6's in there because it added more low-mid girth and punch as well as some Fender-ish quality to the clean and low-to-medium gain channels. There is a fuse and a bias control for each duet set of power tubes. This allows for various power tubes to be combined to get the exact power tube response and tonal character. This is, of course, assuming that you will be cranking up the amp somewhat to get the power section involved in the tone shaping process. Since I will keep this amp at the shop's soundroom most of the time, it will get cranked a lot. I expect to keep trying various tube combinations as time goes by.
The amp obviously has more power than most people will ever need, but it still sounds great at low volume levels, even at whisper-quiet bedroom levels. The six power tubes and the super efficient power transformer are necessary to push out the incredible lows of this amp in a coherent fashion. It's really borrowing some design features of a great tube bass amp since the low frequencies need a lot of power and headroom to punch through the mix. In this regard, the Herbert succeeds in a brilliant manner. The lows are huge yet well balanced with the various shades of mids and the highs.
This is an EXTREMELY versatile amp. Its main drawing feature is the massive over-the-top distortion channel, but the two other channels can stand on its own as great channels as well. If there are some functions I'd like to see, I do wish it had a 1/3 power or 2/3 power switch, but this amp was designed to move the lows, so such a feature may defeat the purpose of this amp. This amp is about POWER, baby! Power that you harness and wield as you play... If you don't like unbridled power to the max, this amp probably isn't for you.
Sound Quality: 10 I have various guitars: a Brian Moore MC/1, a PRS Custom 24, a PRS Custom 22, a Parker Fly Artist, and two Fender Strats. The Herbert responds beautifully to each guitar and lets the unique characteristics of each guitar shine through. I like to play various styles of music with tonal variety, so each guitar has a myriad of tonal options. This mates very well with the wide-range of sounds available on the Herbert.
Channel 1 is deep yet bubbly and bouncy that is still tight on the bottom and detailed and sparkling on top. For what I like to do, it is the perfect clean channel—loads of headroom, bouncy yet tight, warm yet shimmering, sweet yet throaty... It is the "best" (for my style and tastes) clean channel that I've heard from a high-gain head. Others may surely prefer the clean channel of the VH4, the VHT UL, the Rivera KHR, the H&K TriAmp Mk. 2 or various other heads, but for me, the Herbert's clean channel has the perfect combination of an amp like the JC-120, a Hiwatt, a Fender Twin, and a Vox AC-30. I love this channel's big round bottom that's tight, the full and warm midrange, and the sparkling and detailed highs. There is a huge depth to the sound yet it retains definition with superb balance across the frequency spectrum. This is a superb clean channel by any yardstick.
The initial prototype had a very limited sonic range in the second channel. But Peter corrected this with a gain/voicing switch that adds a rainbow's worth of tonal colors and gain range to this one channel alone. Starting out with a warm and more vintage-ish clean sound with the switch set on "minus" and the gain set at around 9 o'clock, it smoothly goes into a very natural sounding breakup with the gain approaching noon. This is somewhere in between the first and second channels of the VH4. By taking the gain to around 3 o'clock, the Herbert now spits out some very authentic raw blues-rock sounds. From here, backing off on the treble and boosting the mids gives you some great Dumble-esque fat singing lead sounds a la Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, and Santana. The attack is fast and the envelope is initially tight, but then sags slightly as you hold the notes. The lows are big and punchy but never overbearing. This is the sound I wanted to nail to get that Two-Rock sort of a sound: fat yet tight and fast, fast in its attack yet sweet and spongy during the sustain.
From here, you flick the gain/voicing switch to "plus" and observe the Herbert morph into the brighter Marshall-like territory with more punch and definition while retaining warmth in the midrange. It's not quite the 3rd channel of the VH4, but it was never meant to mimic the 3rd channel of that amp. With some tweaking, I was able to simulate some early-VH-esque sounds. With the gain cranked, the 2nd channel delves into the 80's metal sounds—think Ozzy, Motley Crue, Whitesnake, etc. The Herbert's second channel can cover decades' worth of classic sounds on its own. Always toneful with a throaty midrange, this is the channel that will surprise many Diezel fans. Peter has allowed you to dial in some great low-to-medium gain sounds with more punch and definition on the bottom. I really love the fact that the Herbert can get some very nice classic rock sounds as well after these tweaks performed by Peter.
The third channel is heavy on the gain but very sweet sounding with a lot of cutting mids. This channel is superb for all-out shred a la Shawn Lane and Buckethead and over-the-top pummeling Nu-Metal rhythms and super fast Death Metal riffs. Still featuring a super fast transient attack that slowly and surely evolves into a pleasant sponginess, this channel exhibits remarkable tonal balance and tactile response with touch sensitivity. With the gain at around 1 o'clock, the treble at 2 o'clock, the mid at 3 o'clock and the bass at around noon, you get a juicy yet tight and liquid high-gain sound that's perfect for that Satriani, Vai, Petrucci sort of a shred sound that remains dynamic and extremely well defined. Backing off on the treble will take the amp into the Holdsworth and Gambale territory for some great high-speed legato lines. For what I like to do, it's the best lead sound imaginable. But again, that's a subjective call.
Kick in the Mid-Cut and now you've completely transformed the fusion/shred sound into a doomsday modern metal sound. The sheer brutality of this distortion is very difficult to describe. The really cool thing is that you'd be able to play leads without sounding too thin even with the Mid-Cut engaged. No matter what you do, it's hard to get a bad sound out of the Herbert. Peter has gone out of his way to make this amp more toneful from top to bottom. Well, he has succeeded big time. The warm, full, and thick midrange is all there. This is where the Herbert really shines. The treble fizz and buzz are, for the most part, gone. When you open up the amp a bit, there is less buzziness. The lead sound is not as compressed as you'd expect. It's quite "open"-sounding with a lot of character. This is the star attraction. This amp can literally do it all with no tonal compromises whatsoever.
Reliability: N/A It's too early to tell, but based on the track record of the already legendary VH4, I'm willing to bet that the Herbert will handle the knocks of the road and demanding performance situations with ease. The thing is built like a Sherman tank inside and out.
Customer Support: 10 The whole Diezel experience will last long after you've spent the money on this amp. Salwender and Peter Diezel provide the very best in Customer Support in this industry. The warranty lasts a lifetime to the original owner. It's simply not possible to get better service than what Peter has to offer.
Overall Rating: 10 The Herbert sets a new standard in high-gain amplification. My expectations were high, but the amp has lived up to its hype. For me, this is the head that I've been waiting for many years. It's got the great features, but ultimately, it's about the tone and the Herbert delivers it in spades. I'm really happy about this amp. It's the one that I've been searching and waiting for. Long live Peter Diezel! Thanks for releasing such a superb amplifier that will be the new standard in high-gain channel-switching amplification.
Ngayon kung claim mo na mas magaling ka sa Tone Merchants at Guitar Player at hindi mo "taste" ang Diezel, may only question left to you is narinig mo na ba at ilan oras mo natest sa mga ibang gitara at naAB mo na ba ito sa mga ibang amp nasabay sabay?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 29, 2006, 10:19:05 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Delta, yes wisdom seems to be lacking in a lot of us, myself included. I just think it is very hard to drive a point to everyone. (Or should we do that in the first place?) Whether you go the controversial a-hole approach, or timid and forgiving approach, people may or may not take your points well.
yeah, i was referring to myself too. wala naman sa ating omniscient or perfect all the time. it's good to have knowledge, and we all strive for it. i'm astounded how much knowledge you, oas, abyss, and many others here possess. but, as they say, even a little knowledge can be dangerous. having wisdow is knowing how to use it for a good purpose and benefit of others. info/knowledge expands people's choices and allows them to make informed decisions. but--to answer your rhetorical question--we don't have to take it upon ourself to "enlighten" others. put it out there and let them take it for what it's worth and make their own decisions.
Quote
Funny that even some folks speculated oas and I are one person. :D
oo nga e. maybe that's because you had a BIG grin in your pic w/ the diezel amp. kala nila ikaw na si oas dahil sa tuwa at galak mo! :-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: namida on March 29, 2006, 10:53:20 PM
Oh well, much talk about that amp's capabilities and I'm still waiting for my goosebumps. Whats that psychedelic amp for anyway?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 30, 2006, 01:26:06 AM
so how does the song "what's up" from 4 non-blondes sound thru that diezel dude? amazing i bet...i bet you can play a bitchin' michael learns to rock tune on that amp bro...
so what is it that you do with this amp? hit one note and gush, hit one note and gush, hit one note and gush...over and over again?
maybe we'll heed your advice and purchase that amp...provided that we hear clips of it first...watcha think?
i'd like to play a couple of air supply tunes thru a bitchin' amp myself one of these days...but i gotta hear it first...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 30, 2006, 02:27:57 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
This is Guitar Player's review. Kung pati Guitar Player **** mo rin, may problema ka na siguro sa tenga mo.
The Herbert’s three channels cover an impressive range of sounds. While some multi-channel amps favor higher-gain textures, the Herbert is remarkable in its ability to provide impressive clean tones as well. Channel 1 conveys clean with astounding headroom and punch, yet there’s always a sense of resiliency in the dynamic response that keeps the feel from becoming stiff or sterile. Channel 2 is the versatility champ thanks to the additional range provided by its Gain-Boost switch. In low-gain mode, it can cover tweed-like grind, Brit-flavored crunch, and even totally nail the Van Halen “brown” sound. Activate the Gain-Boost and there’s enough rage for old-school metal or shred solos. Channel 3 delivers the extreme gain demanded by today’s nu-metal players, while the Mid Cut control lets you dial-in the perfect amount of scoop. And, thanks to the Mid Cut’s programmability, you can preset it for wicked rhythm chunk, and then bypass the scoop for more forceful solos.
The highest-gain tones reveal the true value of the Herbert’s extra horsepower. Yes, six output tubes can produce authoritative tones at frighteningly loud levels, but the real benefit here is enhanced low-end control. There’s simply no substitute for raw power when you’re talking about low-end slam.
Paving the way for a new breed of 21st-century super amps, the Herbert boldly ventures into uncharted territory with a spectrum of sounds that leaves little to be desired. This German tone machine would rule on the basis of its second channel alone, and when you consider its plethora of hip features, and its ability to sound impressive even at low volumes, it’s clear that the Herbert has few rivals.
For those who seek a truly über high-gain tube amp, and have the bank to afford it, there’s no substitute for the Herbert."
can you pls. elaborate more :roll:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 30, 2006, 02:32:23 AM
Quote from: pallas
Quote from: oasgomez
This is Guitar Player's review. Kung pati Guitar Player **** mo rin, may problema ka na siguro sa tenga mo.
The Herbert’s three channels cover an impressive range of sounds. While some multi-channel amps favor higher-gain textures, the Herbert is remarkable in its ability to provide impressive clean tones as well. Channel 1 conveys clean with astounding headroom and punch, yet there’s always a sense of resiliency in the dynamic response that keeps the feel from becoming stiff or sterile. Channel 2 is the versatility champ thanks to the additional range provided by its Gain-Boost switch. In low-gain mode, it can cover tweed-like grind, Brit-flavored crunch, and even totally nail the Van Halen “brown” sound. Activate the Gain-Boost and there’s enough rage for old-school metal or shred solos. Channel 3 delivers the extreme gain demanded by today’s nu-metal players, while the Mid Cut control lets you dial-in the perfect amount of scoop. And, thanks to the Mid Cut’s programmability, you can preset it for wicked rhythm chunk, and then bypass the scoop for more forceful solos.
The highest-gain tones reveal the true value of the Herbert’s extra horsepower. Yes, six output tubes can produce authoritative tones at frighteningly loud levels, but the real benefit here is enhanced low-end control. There’s simply no substitute for raw power when you’re talking about low-end slam.
Paving the way for a new breed of 21st-century super amps, the Herbert boldly ventures into uncharted territory with a spectrum of sounds that leaves little to be desired. This German tone machine would rule on the basis of its second channel alone, and when you consider its plethora of hip features, and its ability to sound impressive even at low volumes, it’s clear that the Herbert has few rivals.
For those who seek a truly über high-gain tube amp, and have the bank to afford it, there’s no substitute for the Herbert."
can you pls. elaborate more :roll:
...pasting reviews :roll: ....HOW BAOG
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 30, 2006, 02:36:06 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
This a review from Tone Merchants:
In terms of versatility, it's hard for me to imagine an all-tube amp with more features and tonal flexibility. From a modern yet lush clean sound with virtually infinite headroom to warm vintage type of cleans to bluesy overdrive to AC/DC type of crunch to early-VH distortion to fat saturated leads to the most over-the-top high-gain sounds with huge bass that is never obese or obtrusive, the Herbert delivers any kind of electric guitar sound imaginable while keeping its totally unique sonic character. I like to play super clean acoustic jazz type of music to classic rock to 80's shred to the heaviest metal possible for kicks, and the Herbert delivers in each category with authority and complex detail.
The Herbert has three channels, all with independent EQ controls. Channel one doesn't have a gain control but it isn't necessary since it's supposed to produce the cleanest sound possible with maximum headroom. A truly unique feature of this amp is the assignable (switchable via MIDI, footswitch or manually on the front panel) Mid-Cut section. In the clean channel, it can give an acoustic quality to the electric guitar. In the high-gain channel, it converts a fat singing distortion sound into a huge scooped-mid metal sound that is brutally menacing yet coherent and punchy. The Herbert also features an assignable second master volume. Instead of a boost function that merely adds more gain on so many amps of this type, the second master allows the player to dial in a louder or softer volume level for a particular channel's sound with or without the Mid-Cut engaged.
The Herbert features 3 effects loops: one serial, one parallel with a wet mix control, and a serial switchable loop that you can assign to any channel (and combination of Mid-Cut and 2nd master volume settings) as a stored preset. There are also compensated line out and a tuner out jacks on the back. There are 5 speaker-out jacks to run various cabinet configurations as well.
The power section of the Herbert features six output tubes. It now comes stock with six EH EL-34's, but this particular unit I have has a quartet of EH EL-34's and a duet of EH 6L6's. I decided to keep the 6L6's in there because it added more low-mid girth and punch as well as some Fender-ish quality to the clean and low-to-medium gain channels. There is a fuse and a bias control for each duet set of power tubes. This allows for various power tubes to be combined to get the exact power tube response and tonal character. This is, of course, assuming that you will be cranking up the amp somewhat to get the power section involved in the tone shaping process. Since I will keep this amp at the shop's soundroom most of the time, it will get cranked a lot. I expect to keep trying various tube combinations as time goes by.
The amp obviously has more power than most people will ever need, but it still sounds great at low volume levels, even at whisper-quiet bedroom levels. The six power tubes and the super efficient power transformer are necessary to push out the incredible lows of this amp in a coherent fashion. It's really borrowing some design features of a great tube bass amp since the low frequencies need a lot of power and headroom to punch through the mix. In this regard, the Herbert succeeds in a brilliant manner. The lows are huge yet well balanced with the various shades of mids and the highs.
This is an EXTREMELY versatile amp. Its main drawing feature is the massive over-the-top distortion channel, but the two other channels can stand on its own as great channels as well. If there are some functions I'd like to see, I do wish it had a 1/3 power or 2/3 power switch, but this amp was designed to move the lows, so such a feature may defeat the purpose of this amp. This amp is about POWER, baby! Power that you harness and wield as you play... If you don't like unbridled power to the max, this amp probably isn't for you.
Sound Quality: 10 I have various guitars: a Brian Moore MC/1, a PRS Custom 24, a PRS Custom 22, a Parker Fly Artist, and two Fender Strats. The Herbert responds beautifully to each guitar and lets the unique characteristics of each guitar shine through. I like to play various styles of music with tonal variety, so each guitar has a myriad of tonal options. This mates very well with the wide-range of sounds available on the Herbert.
Channel 1 is deep yet bubbly and bouncy that is still tight on the bottom and detailed and sparkling on top. For what I like to do, it is the perfect clean channel—loads of headroom, bouncy yet tight, warm yet shimmering, sweet yet throaty... It is the "best" (for my style and tastes) clean channel that I've heard from a high-gain head. Others may surely prefer the clean channel of the VH4, the VHT UL, the Rivera KHR, the H&K TriAmp Mk. 2 or various other heads, but for me, the Herbert's clean channel has the perfect combination of an amp like the JC-120, a Hiwatt, a Fender Twin, and a Vox AC-30. I love this channel's big round bottom that's tight, the full and warm midrange, and the sparkling and detailed highs. There is a huge depth to the sound yet it retains definition with superb balance across the frequency spectrum. This is a superb clean channel by any yardstick.
The initial prototype had a very limited sonic range in the second channel. But Peter corrected this with a gain/voicing switch that adds a rainbow's worth of tonal colors and gain range to this one channel alone. Starting out with a warm and more vintage-ish clean sound with the switch set on "minus" and the gain set at around 9 o'clock, it smoothly goes into a very natural sounding breakup with the gain approaching noon. This is somewhere in between the first and second channels of the VH4. By taking the gain to around 3 o'clock, the Herbert now spits out some very authentic raw blues-rock sounds. From here, backing off on the treble and boosting the mids gives you some great Dumble-esque fat singing lead sounds a la Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, and Santana. The attack is fast and the envelope is initially tight, but then sags slightly as you hold the notes. The lows are big and punchy but never overbearing. This is the sound I wanted to nail to get that Two-Rock sort of a sound: fat yet tight and fast, fast in its attack yet sweet and spongy during the sustain.
From here, you flick the gain/voicing switch to "plus" and observe the Herbert morph into the brighter Marshall-like territory with more punch and definition while retaining warmth in the midrange. It's not quite the 3rd channel of the VH4, but it was never meant to mimic the 3rd channel of that amp. With some tweaking, I was able to simulate some early-VH-esque sounds. With the gain cranked, the 2nd channel delves into the 80's metal sounds—think Ozzy, Motley Crue, Whitesnake, etc. The Herbert's second channel can cover decades' worth of classic sounds on its own. Always toneful with a throaty midrange, this is the channel that will surprise many Diezel fans. Peter has allowed you to dial in some great low-to-medium gain sounds with more punch and definition on the bottom. I really love the fact that the Herbert can get some very nice classic rock sounds as well after these tweaks performed by Peter.
The third channel is heavy on the gain but very sweet sounding with a lot of cutting mids. This channel is superb for all-out shred a la Shawn Lane and Buckethead and over-the-top pummeling Nu-Metal rhythms and super fast Death Metal riffs. Still featuring a super fast transient attack that slowly and surely evolves into a pleasant sponginess, this channel exhibits remarkable tonal balance and tactile response with touch sensitivity. With the gain at around 1 o'clock, the treble at 2 o'clock, the mid at 3 o'clock and the bass at around noon, you get a juicy yet tight and liquid high-gain sound that's perfect for that Satriani, Vai, Petrucci sort of a shred sound that remains dynamic and extremely well defined. Backing off on the treble will take the amp into the Holdsworth and Gambale territory for some great high-speed legato lines. For what I like to do, it's the best lead sound imaginable. But again, that's a subjective call.
Kick in the Mid-Cut and now you've completely transformed the fusion/shred sound into a doomsday modern metal sound. The sheer brutality of this distortion is very difficult to describe. The really cool thing is that you'd be able to play leads without sounding too thin even with the Mid-Cut engaged. No matter what you do, it's hard to get a bad sound out of the Herbert. Peter has gone out of his way to make this amp more toneful from top to bottom. Well, he has succeeded big time. The warm, full, and thick midrange is all there. This is where the Herbert really shines. The treble fizz and buzz are, for the most part, gone. When you open up the amp a bit, there is less buzziness. The lead sound is not as compressed as you'd expect. It's quite "open"-sounding with a lot of character. This is the star attraction. This amp can literally do it all with no tonal compromises whatsoever.
Reliability: N/A It's too early to tell, but based on the track record of the already legendary VH4, I'm willing to bet that the Herbert will handle the knocks of the road and demanding performance situations with ease. The thing is built like a Sherman tank inside and out.
Customer Support: 10 The whole Diezel experience will last long after you've spent the money on this amp. Salwender and Peter Diezel provide the very best in Customer Support in this industry. The warranty lasts a lifetime to the original owner. It's simply not possible to get better service than what Peter has to offer.
Overall Rating: 10 The Herbert sets a new standard in high-gain amplification. My expectations were high, but the amp has lived up to its hype. For me, this is the head that I've been waiting for many years. It's got the great features, but ultimately, it's about the tone and the Herbert delivers it in spades. I'm really happy about this amp. It's the one that I've been searching and waiting for. Long live Peter Diezel! Thanks for releasing such a superb amplifier that will be the new standard in high-gain channel-switching amplification.
Ngayon kung claim mo na mas magaling ka sa Tone Merchants at Guitar Player at hindi mo "taste" ang Diezel, may only question left to you is narinig mo na ba at ilan oras mo natest sa mga ibang gitara at naAB mo na ba ito sa mga ibang amp nasabay sabay?
...so whats the reason you didnt get the matching cab or did you that i missed it and too lazy too read thru.........
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 30, 2006, 06:21:24 AM
1) Diezel Herbert is not picky with cabinets. This was one reason that Ultrasound was strongly recommending the head.
2) I am looking into purchasing hardwood cabinets -- those that are not made of plywood or MDF. Medyo mahal lang nga at around US$1,000 ang isang 2x12 na unloaded.
3) The reviews are there because I have to say that I myself did not believe these reviews which were posted sometime ago. But when the Diezel Herbert arrived, I could now relate to what they said. I was just as skeptical as most of the people on this thread. This was the only way for me to fully describe what the Herbert can do because hindi niyo naman ako papaniwalaan. Ngayon kung ayaw paniwalaan ang mga reviews ng isang guitar publication at ng dating ni Ed Yoon ng Tone Merchants -- who is now in charge of production of John Suhr's Custom Audio Electronics OD100, wala na akong magagawa dahil ego problem na talaga iyan.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 30, 2006, 06:22:01 AM
....for me iba iba ang voicining each amp.. ..oasgomez loves his Herbert period.....he loves it so much that for him it can replace alll the amp in his collection or in the entire ober ober da woyd.
thats his thing....let him be. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 30, 2006, 07:04:26 AM
Quote
thats his thing....let him be.
...uhh....ayaw...hehehe[/quote]
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 30, 2006, 07:04:30 AM
Quote from: pallas
Quote from: pallas
Quote from: oasgomez
This is Guitar Player's review. Kung pati Guitar Player **** mo rin, may problema ka na siguro sa tenga mo.
The Herbert’s three channels cover an impressive range of sounds. While some multi-channel amps favor higher-gain textures, the Herbert is remarkable in its ability to provide impressive clean tones as well. Channel 1 conveys clean with astounding headroom and punch, yet there’s always a sense of resiliency in the dynamic response that keeps the feel from becoming stiff or sterile. Channel 2 is the versatility champ thanks to the additional range provided by its Gain-Boost switch. In low-gain mode, it can cover tweed-like grind, Brit-flavored crunch, and even totally nail the Van Halen “brown” sound. Activate the Gain-Boost and there’s enough rage for old-school metal or shred solos. Channel 3 delivers the extreme gain demanded by today’s nu-metal players, while the Mid Cut control lets you dial-in the perfect amount of scoop. And, thanks to the Mid Cut’s programmability, you can preset it for wicked rhythm chunk, and then bypass the scoop for more forceful solos.
The highest-gain tones reveal the true value of the Herbert’s extra horsepower. Yes, six output tubes can produce authoritative tones at frighteningly loud levels, but the real benefit here is enhanced low-end control. There’s simply no substitute for raw power when you’re talking about low-end slam.
Paving the way for a new breed of 21st-century super amps, the Herbert boldly ventures into uncharted territory with a spectrum of sounds that leaves little to be desired. This German tone machine would rule on the basis of its second channel alone, and when you consider its plethora of hip features, and its ability to sound impressive even at low volumes, it’s clear that the Herbert has few rivals.
For those who seek a truly über high-gain tube amp, and have the bank to afford it, there’s no substitute for the Herbert."
can you pls. elaborate more :roll:
...pasting reviews :roll: ....HOW BAOG
boy was i drunk last night hhahahahhahaha :roll: 8)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 30, 2006, 07:18:30 AM
I would like to clarify. Yes I love my Herbert because its has a unique voicing that all my other amps cannot get. But I also love my other amps because Herbert cannot get their unique voicings. This Herbert purchase was not out of a whim. I had to consult with people who had heard my other amps and find out which amp voicing I had not covered. Also, I just consider it a plus that Channels 1 & 2 sound really great and unique for a three channel amp and the thing is so flexible.
Let me state that I wanted to buy a Komet KF50 Limited Edition which was more expensive than the Herbert and which required a purchase of a matching cabinet because the Komet is picky and requires a cranked volume setting to operate. The 4x12 cabinet itself would have cost another US$2000. That being said, I will say I still have not covered everything that I want to hear and I will continue to purchase and you can go on to enjoy and play your own personal gear but if you ever wonder if the Herbert has some unique voicing that is musical the answer is yes and in my opinion worth it. So, keep playing that Marshall or Fender or Peavey. Do I think the Herberts voicing is much better that Marshall or Fender or Peavey? Personally yes. But you have to hear for yourself to judge. Offhand in my own limited set of friends, based on people who have heard several amps, they believe so too. Does that mean that I discount personal preferrence? Nope but the mode of the frequency distribution seems to point out to the preferrence of the Herbert over Marshall, Peaveys and Fenders. How is that achieved by the Herbert? Madaya. Tatlong channel na maganda at ibang voicing talaga.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on March 30, 2006, 07:24:54 AM
Quote from: Phil
....for me iba iba ang voicining each amp.. ..oasgomez loves his Herbert period.....he loves it so much that for him it can replace alll the amp in his collection or in the entire ober ober da woyd.
thats his thing....let him be. :wink:
+1. in the same manner that we can all be content with what we have and also truly believe we sound just as good, if not better, with gear that aren't worth as much.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 30, 2006, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Why would they replace Marshalls and Fenders? because a Diezel Herbert can sound better than Fenders and Marshalls.
Even your so called studios dont have the complete catalog of Marshall and Fender amps. Namili rin sila.
If you have a beef against expensive equipment say so. Dont take it personally on me. Kung siguro US$500 ang Diezel Herbert, wala ka sigurong angal. Pero kailan mo nga siya uli huling nasubukan at narining? Paano mo nga na test ang Diezel Herbert?
Beef against expensive equipment? Owning a few expensive pieces of equipment myself, I have no problem with expensive equipment. What I DO have a problem with is the stupid set of remarks anchored by the USE of expensive equipment and the elitist approach that YOU take to say that the Diezel is the best damn amp in the universe. Moreover, you even arrogantly belittle others who are less fortunate YET play well as great musicians in their own right. I don't have a problem with the gear, Oas, I do, however, have a problem with YOU. I don't have a problem with expensive instruments , I just have a problem with stupid a$$holes that say things they don't know. So-called studios? NRG recorded Stone Temple Pilots, Papa Roach, John Scofield, Geroge Benson, Remastered Jimi Hendrix's re-releases, BOTH Linkin Park albums and a whole slew of other great bands that - I am pretty sure - would scoff at the idea that they would be subjected to recording in a studio that had ONE amp to take care of everything. don't believe me? Go down there and take a look at the Gold and Platinum releases on the walls that are TESTIMONY to the power of variety and taste in gear, as well as in musical ability. I have and did try the Herbert before going with my VH4S in the end. Why? Because I have a triamp setup - Diezel VH4S and Mesa Boogie Dc-5 to a pair of 2x12 Rectifier Cabs and a Mesa Trem-O-Verb through a 4x12. Is the Diezel the best amp I've ever tried - its one of the best but I would never discount the role of other amps and their characteristics just because they are NOT Diezels or they don't fall under a "$2,000 gear inspiration/ cutoff."
When I read the cut-off price for gear I was - well, floored, you could say.
You love your Diezel, and I am sure everybody else here loves their gear too but your a$$hole approach and ignorant comments doesn't really do much to contribute - constructively - to the need for others to become better musicians. All you have been is an opnionated d*ck, period. A suggestion, perhaps? If you wanna be a d*ck about it, be a [sausage] in your own house to people who care about it enough to let it go. People are here to learn and if you can't do that because you have this inherent need for obsessive HAMBOG then g-t-f-o.
For some guy who has some good pieces of kit, you sure put a lot of weight on the reviews and opinions of others. sad, if you were any worth the weight of your gear yoou would trust yourself and your ears a lot more. Like I said before, hopefully you PLAY better than you spew sh*t..
If the Diezels just happened to be below 1K - then good! Thing is, I don't put a premium on expensive gear - I let my hands and ears decide. If an RJ sounded better than a Gibson LP, then I would go with that. Its whatever sounds good that makes me want to play even more and become a better guitar player.
Just my dos centavos...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 30, 2006, 08:07:36 AM
Quote from: markflo
so what is it that you do with this amp? hit one note and gush, hit one note and gush, hit one note and gush...over and over again?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
man, natawa talaga ako dito... :lol: nice one dude...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 30, 2006, 08:08:24 AM
Quote from: pallas
...pasting reviews :roll: ....HOW BAOG
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
man, mas natawa ako dito... :lol: nice one too dude...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 30, 2006, 08:14:53 AM
Quote from: Phil
....for me iba iba ang voicining each amp.. ..oasgomez loves his Herbert period.....he loves it so much that for him it can replace alll the amp in his collection or in the entire ober ober da woyd.
thats his thing....let him be. :wink:
yup, i agree... kung gusto niyang maging mayabang and let everyone know na malalim ang bulsa niya, that's his thing.
as for me... panot ang mga amp ko... puro combo lang and used na nung binili... :(
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 30, 2006, 08:44:31 AM
i can see it now..
i walk into a bar.. i see the band, first thing i look at is the guitar.. a custom telecaster.. cool.. thats cool.. i see the amp, and i am floored! a diezel herbert!!!!! thru an orange 2x12!!!!!!! :shock:
i sit down, i try to catch my breath.. i need a drink..
then it hits me, something funny.. i know that song..
guilty pleasure song..
the guitairst is playing the solo for my favourite April Boy regino song! :lol:
where am i?
cowboy grill yata..
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 30, 2006, 09:42:28 AM
Whew! mainit dito :D
Konting hinahon lang mga peeps :)
Anyway, oasgomez, I'd like to know what guitar was used when skunky recorded that sound clip. I also noticed the lack of gain on channel 3 compared to the marc seal video. tsaka yung settings na rin ng amp siguro. baka nalimutan lang itaas yung gain.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 30, 2006, 10:57:08 AM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: Phil
....for me iba iba ang voicining each amp.. ..oasgomez loves his Herbert period.....he loves it so much that for him it can replace alll the amp in his collection or in the entire ober ober da woyd.
thats his thing....let him be. :wink:
yup, i agree... kung gusto niyang maging mayabang and let everyone know na malalim ang bulsa niya, that's his thing.
as for me... panot ang mga amp ko... puro combo lang and used na nung binili... :(
pero ganda naman ng gitara, hehe :lol: :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 30, 2006, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
1) Diezel Herbert is not picky with cabinets. This was one reason that Ultrasound was strongly recommending the head.
bullsh!t. maybe you should buy that hartke piggy back 4x8's. let's see if your diezel can beat a blue voodoo.
Quote
2) I am looking into purchasing hardwood cabinets -- those that are not made of plywood or MDF. Medyo mahal lang nga at around US$1,000 ang isang 2x12 na unloaded.
wood+glue is better than wood for cabinets. they're just too friggin heavy that's why you'd rather have wood, or if you really prefer the tone from wood (y'know, preference yada yada)
Quote
3) The reviews are there because I have to say that I myself did not believe these reviews which were posted sometime ago. But when the Diezel Herbert arrived, I could now relate to what they said. I was just as skeptical as most of the people on this thread. This was the only way for me to fully describe what the Herbert can do because hindi niyo naman ako papaniwalaan. Ngayon kung ayaw paniwalaan ang mga reviews ng isang guitar publication at ng dating ni Ed Yoon ng Tone Merchants -- who is now in charge of production of John Suhr's Custom Audio Electronics OD100, wala na akong magagawa dahil ego problem na talaga iyan.
i still think most of the guys here would "whoa!" the crowd more than you do because i think a lot more guys here can play better than you... i don't even think you will "wow" anyone... coz it's probably just the gear that they will be looking at when you're "playing".
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Machine_Head on March 30, 2006, 01:07:44 PM
Pwde ba tayo magrequest kay Behringer na gumawa ng Diezel Herbert modeller sa next generation of V-amps nila? How cool is that! Hehehe... :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 30, 2006, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: fretburner
Quote from: oasgomez
1) Diezel Herbert is not picky with cabinets. This was one reason that Ultrasound was strongly recommending the head.
bullsh!t. maybe you should buy that hartke piggy back 4x8's. let's see if your diezel can beat a blue voodoo.
Quote
2) I am looking into purchasing hardwood cabinets -- those that are not made of plywood or MDF. Medyo mahal lang nga at around US$1,000 ang isang 2x12 na unloaded.
wood+glue is better than wood for cabinets. they're just too friggin heavy that's why you'd rather have wood, or if you really prefer the tone from wood (y'know, preference yada yada)
Quote
3) The reviews are there because I have to say that I myself did not believe these reviews which were posted sometime ago. But when the Diezel Herbert arrived, I could now relate to what they said. I was just as skeptical as most of the people on this thread. This was the only way for me to fully describe what the Herbert can do because hindi niyo naman ako papaniwalaan. Ngayon kung ayaw paniwalaan ang mga reviews ng isang guitar publication at ng dating ni Ed Yoon ng Tone Merchants -- who is now in charge of production of John Suhr's Custom Audio Electronics OD100, wala na akong magagawa dahil ego problem na talaga iyan.
i still think most of the guys here would "whoa!" the crowd more than you do because i think a lot more guys here can play better than you... i don't even think you will "wow" anyone... coz it's probably just the gear that they will be looking at when you're "playing".
hardwood cabinets?!?! i've seen those - no hella way I am carrying that in a gig! And my recto cabinets have wheels but mabigat pa rin!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on March 30, 2006, 01:30:34 PM
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 30, 2006, 03:00:55 PM
this I cannot stress out enough.
......for me 80%-90% of your amp's sound comes from your speakers.....so cab and speaker selection is very important in your sound
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 30, 2006, 03:32:37 PM
I am still waiting for Peter Diezel's response to my email. He can enlighten us regarding our greenie cabinet question, as well as some controversial issues being raised here, like how it compares to vintage amps and stuff like that.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 30, 2006, 03:34:03 PM
Pardon for my stupidity, but are NASH and DIEZEL one and the same?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Alfie1975 on March 30, 2006, 04:18:07 PM
skunkyfunk: yup, si kevin nash and si diesel ay iisa lang. ayos yun pic na yun a hahaha! anyway, nothing still beats great guitar playing...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Al_Librero on March 30, 2006, 04:19:03 PM
yes, kevin nash and "diesel" are one and the same.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 30, 2006, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: Phil
this I cannot stress out enough.
......for me 80%-90% of your amp's sound comes from your speakers.....so cab and speaker selection is very important in your sound
mismo 8)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: titser_marco on March 30, 2006, 07:23:30 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: titser_marco
Quote from: oasgomez
By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it.
Ditto. :D
Uh no - its STILL in the hands, otherwise practice, talent, and even more perseverance to master your instrument wouldn't matter, now would it? Its because of claims such as these that makes me seriously think how well Oas can cash the hot air his ass dishes out. Does all your gear get actively used to their full potential or do they just stay at home to be pretty and to use as bragging rights? And testimony? Talking about gear is a testimony that, yes, we all play and, yes, we can't all afford to buy expensive stuff but THAT doesn't keep us from sharing what we CAN do with what we have. If THAT - the very act of sharing music made with different tools is not a testimony to the fact that hands DO matter, then someone whup my ass because all these years of playing would have added up to nothing because buying a nice amp would have made me sound better than all the hours of practice I put into learning my guitar:)
Its sad how someone with all that gear can so easily disregard the important role of feel and emotion driven by a honed technique....again, its the player that PLAYS the guitar and amp, not the other way around.
I guess what I was trying to point out is that a palyer will sound like himself regardless of the amp but his tone will be different. The confusion sets in when we start equating TONE with a player's CHARACTER. The two are not the same and shouldn't be lookd at in the same light because one talks about a quality that lies in the player, the other in the equipment. Take VAi for example. Listening to the Zappa records that he played in definitely tells me that the playing sounds like him, but the tone was very different. Why? Because he was using different amps.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 30, 2006, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: titser_marco
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: titser_marco
Quote from: oasgomez
By the very fact we like to talk about gear is already testimony that we dont think its all in the hands but we just dont want to admit it.
Ditto. :D
Uh no - its STILL in the hands, otherwise practice, talent, and even more perseverance to master your instrument wouldn't matter, now would it? Its because of claims such as these that makes me seriously think how well Oas can cash the hot air his ass dishes out. Does all your gear get actively used to their full potential or do they just stay at home to be pretty and to use as bragging rights? And testimony? Talking about gear is a testimony that, yes, we all play and, yes, we can't all afford to buy expensive stuff but THAT doesn't keep us from sharing what we CAN do with what we have. If THAT - the very act of sharing music made with different tools is not a testimony to the fact that hands DO matter, then someone whup my ass because all these years of playing would have added up to nothing because buying a nice amp would have made me sound better than all the hours of practice I put into learning my guitar:)
Its sad how someone with all that gear can so easily disregard the important role of feel and emotion driven by a honed technique....again, its the player that PLAYS the guitar and amp, not the other way around.
I guess what I was trying to point out is that a palyer will sound like himself regardless of the amp but his tone will be different. The confusion sets in when we start equating TONE with a player's CHARACTER. The two are not the same and shouldn't be lookd at in the same light because one talks about a quality that lies in the player, the other in the equipment. Take VAi for example. Listening to the Zappa records that he played in definitely tells me that the playing sounds like him, but the tone was very different. Why? Because he was using different amps.
true. i was just listening to some songs by Victor Wooten and you could tell what his style is like from other bass players even though he uses the same slap technique and has a very eclectic approach to his playing.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on March 30, 2006, 08:40:46 PM
Quote from: Machine_Head
Pwde ba tayo magrequest kay Behringer na gumawa ng Diezel Herbert modeller sa next generation of V-amps nila? How cool is that! Hehehe... :twisted:
Gud Idea! :idea: :idea: :idea:
O kaya gawa sila ng Butik amp modeller davah!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 30, 2006, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: Phil
....for me iba iba ang voicining each amp.. ..oasgomez loves his Herbert period.....he loves it so much that for him it can replace alll the amp in his collection or in the entire ober ober da woyd.
thats his thing....let him be. :wink:
yup, i agree... kung gusto niyang maging mayabang and let everyone know na malalim ang bulsa niya, that's his thing.
as for me... panot ang mga amp ko... puro combo lang and used na nung binili... :(
pero ganda naman ng gitara, hehe :lol: :wink:
ha ha... yung nga lang:
ganda gitara + panot combo amp + walang practice + 3 anak = kadalasan nakatago na gear sa closet... :(
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Machine_Head on March 30, 2006, 09:05:37 PM
Quote from: lykenhowl
Quote from: Machine_Head
Pwde ba tayo magrequest kay Behringer na gumawa ng Diezel Herbert modeller sa next generation of V-amps nila? How cool is that! Hehehe... :twisted:
Gud Idea! :idea: :idea: :idea:
O kaya gawa sila ng Butik amp modeller davah!
O nga eh, para makarelate naman tayo kay mr. gomez. :D baka mainspire pa tayo lalo. :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 30, 2006, 10:27:34 PM
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 30, 2006, 10:44:10 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 30, 2006, 10:58:15 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
wow... :shock: I just called and someone answered. Guy even remarked that - no - support hasn't gone anywhere. Whaddaya mean no one is there? Here is the number: 0049-89-930-67-27. If you can't get through, call Orange County at 714 538 1285. There are people there too. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 31, 2006, 01:03:03 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
For the downtuned guitar riffs where I used Channel 3, I was using the Moon Custom Telecaster. What pickups were there? Dunno. Can't remember how much gain but at least it was 3 o'clock. At that point I was thinking I should be getting tons of feedback.
For the rest (i.e. Ch2 and Clean Channel) I used your Tokai Strat copy with BK pickups, titanium saddles and Callaham trem as you said.
And BTW, the phone I used wasn't a Nokia, but a Sony Ericsson W800i walkman phone with built-in MP3 player, capable of 512 minutes of music using a Sony Memory Stick duo with a whole range of features like a Sound Recorder, Calculator, Alarm, Stopwatch, and flashlight. It also has text messaging capabilities. It also comes with a 1.2MP camera, GPRS and MMS. I want to have it modded by adding a few more games that I can play during traffic. :D
PS My phone was a free gift from Globe. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 31, 2006, 05:02:24 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: oasgomez
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
wow... :shock: I just called and someone answered. Guy even remarked that - no - support hasn't gone anywhere. Whaddaya mean no one is there? Here is the number: 0049-89-930-67-27. If you can't get through, call Orange County at 714 538 1285. There are people there too. :D
PWNED!!!!!!!!! SHAME...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 31, 2006, 05:59:16 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: oasgomez
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
For the downtuned guitar riffs where I used Channel 3, I was using the Moon Custom Telecaster. What pickups were there? Dunno. Can't remember how much gain but at least it was 3 o'clock. At that point I was thinking I should be getting tons of feedback.
For the rest (i.e. Ch2 and Clean Channel) I used your Tokai Strat copy with BK pickups, titanium saddles and Callaham trem as you said.
And BTW, the phone I used wasn't a Nokia, but a Sony Ericsson W800i walkman phone with built-in MP3 player, capable of 512 minutes of music using a Sony Memory Stick duo with a whole range of features like a Sound Recorder, Calculator, Alarm, Stopwatch, and flashlight. It also has text messaging capabilities. It also comes with a 1.2MP camera, GPRS and MMS. I want to have it modded by adding a few more games that I can play during traffic. :D
PS My phone was a free gift from Globe. :D
Wow! Now that you mentioned it... I'm now more interested with your phone rather than the expensive gears that Alex have, hahaha :lol: !!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 31, 2006, 06:14:03 AM
hehehehe..
i could never understand the obesssion with cellphones.. :?
but thats a whole new different case of GAS.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 31, 2006, 06:35:54 AM
is it a boutique phone???
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: oasgomez
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
For the downtuned guitar riffs where I used Channel 3, I was using the Moon Custom Telecaster. What pickups were there? Dunno. Can't remember how much gain but at least it was 3 o'clock. At that point I was thinking I should be getting tons of feedback.
For the rest (i.e. Ch2 and Clean Channel) I used your Tokai Strat copy with BK pickups, titanium saddles and Callaham trem as you said.
And BTW, the phone I used wasn't a Nokia, but a Sony Ericsson W800i walkman phone with built-in MP3 player, capable of 512 minutes of music using a Sony Memory Stick duo with a whole range of features like a Sound Recorder, Calculator, Alarm, Stopwatch, and flashlight. It also has text messaging capabilities. It also comes with a 1.2MP camera, GPRS and MMS. I want to have it modded by adding a few more games that I can play during traffic. :D
PS My phone was a free gift from Globe. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 31, 2006, 06:48:41 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
hehehehe..
i could never understand the obesssion with cellphones.. :?
but thats a whole new different case of GAS.
+1
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 31, 2006, 07:22:04 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: oasgomez
skunkyfunk,
Please answer the question regarding the guitar and setting you used to play the clip and record with your nokia.
The diezel people are out for a trade fair in Munich. It will take several weeks before they come back.
For the downtuned guitar riffs where I used Channel 3, I was using the Moon Custom Telecaster. What pickups were there? Dunno. Can't remember how much gain but at least it was 3 o'clock. At that point I was thinking I should be getting tons of feedback.
For the rest (i.e. Ch2 and Clean Channel) I used your Tokai Strat copy with BK pickups, titanium saddles and Callaham trem as you said.
And BTW, the phone I used wasn't a Nokia, but a Sony Ericsson W800i walkman phone with built-in MP3 player, capable of 512 minutes of music using a Sony Memory Stick duo with a whole range of features like a Sound Recorder, Calculator, Alarm, Stopwatch, and flashlight. It also has text messaging capabilities. It also comes with a 1.2MP camera, GPRS and MMS. I want to have it modded by adding a few more games that I can play during traffic. :D
PS My phone was a free gift from Globe. :D
A phone recorder does NOT cut it. Isn't there anyone with at least a 4 track over there? Or maybe do the recording Mar-Seal style and use a video recorder.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 31, 2006, 07:46:12 AM
Regarding Diezel Support: Uwe is available at Orange Country. Skunky Funk wrote to Peter Diezel in Germany. And Uwe told me that Peter is out to attend the trade fair for several weeks. Dont try to pretend to know better because hindi ka naman kasama sa pinagusapan. So skunky funk just to write to Uwe if you cannot wait for Peter to get back. For a guy with VH4s, you sure love to put down the guy who made your amp. Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Your problem is that you assume too much and you cannot seem to comprehend. That includes the lackeys who ride on your comments because their only purpose is take potshots at me because it soothes their ego. And that includes you.
By the way, you are not the only one capable of a Triamp set up. If I did choose to do a Triamp set up that would include a Diezel Herbert, A VHT UltraLead Pitbull Head and a Marshall 30th Anniversary Head plus since you seem to favor Mesa stuff, I will throw in a Quad Preamp hooked up to the switchable loop of the Diezel Herbert. Thats 11 channels versus your eight.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 31, 2006, 07:55:48 AM
i have 8 channels as well...but that's just my amp and effects...ano laban? laban? hahaha hawakan mo sa tenga meng! hahah
sorry...couldn't resist...
dang, how much money do you guys make!?!? what kinda work do you do? do you even have time to play guitar? haha!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 31, 2006, 07:59:39 AM
The only reason I asked Skunky Funk to detail the settings and the guitar is because at least six people had tested the Diezel Herbert at Arie's house that day using several guitars. We were all jumping channels and settings. So, I couldn't remember.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on March 31, 2006, 08:04:56 AM
On the hardwood cabinets, somebody asked why I did not get the matching Diezel Cabinet.
So, I explained that I am looking for a more toneful cabinet. Now, you guys have an issue with the weight of the cabinet. So ano nga ba talaga ang gusto niyo sabihin ko?
My priority for cabs is tone and weight is secondary because no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it. So because it really takes two people to carry, the weight is not a priority for me.
On the guy challenging me on the Hartke 4x8 something. I accept as long as he bring his own guitar amp to compare through the same Hartke 4x8. If the Hartke gets damaged, he pays for it. If it wrecks the output transformer of the Diezel Herbert, he buys me a new Herbert. If his guitar amp gets wrecked, he pays for it.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on March 31, 2006, 08:11:32 AM
Quote
no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it
maaaan...you must be really weak not to be able to carry a 2x12...that's light dude! you sure you don't have trouble strumming the guitar too?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: turiguiliano on March 31, 2006, 08:38:51 AM
Quote from: markflo
Quote
no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it
maaaan...you must be really weak not to be able to carry a 2x12...that's light dude! you sure you don't have trouble strumming the guitar too?
:lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 31, 2006, 08:45:15 AM
Quote from: markflo
Quote
no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it
maaaan...you must be really weak not to be able to carry a 2x12...that's light dude! you sure you don't have trouble strumming the guitar too?
dude alam mo naman sa pinas madami alalalay (aka henchmen) so may taga buhat..
i carry my AC30 without any help.. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on March 31, 2006, 09:32:17 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
On the hardwood cabinets, somebody asked why I did not get the matching Diezel Cabinet.
So, I explained that I am looking for a more toneful cabinet. Now, you guys have an issue with the weight of the cabinet. So ano nga ba talaga ang gusto niyo sabihin ko?
My priority for cabs is tone and weight is secondary because no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it. So because it really takes two people to carry, the weight is not a priority for me.
On the guy challenging me on the Hartke 4x8 something. I accept as long as he bring his own guitar amp to compare through the same Hartke 4x8. If the Hartke gets damaged, he pays for it. If it wrecks the output transformer of the Diezel Herbert, he buys me a new Herbert. If his guitar amp gets wrecked, he pays for it.
With you being so anal bout your amps this is a poor excuse for not getting the matching cab :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on March 31, 2006, 10:30:35 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
For the downtuned guitar riffs where I used Channel 3, I was using the Moon Custom Telecaster. What pickups were there? Dunno. Can't remember how much gain but at least it was 3 o'clock. At that point I was thinking I should be getting tons of feedback.
hmm... that's strange. i remember oas posting that that tele has barden humbucks in it. the sound still is heavy though
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 31, 2006, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Regarding Diezel Support: Uwe is available at Orange Country. Skunky Funk wrote to Peter Diezel in Germany. And Uwe told me that Peter is out to attend the trade fair for several weeks. Dont try to pretend to know better because hindi ka naman kasama sa pinagusapan. So skunky funk just to write to Uwe if you cannot wait for Peter to get back. For a guy with VH4s, you sure love to put down the guy who made your amp. Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Your problem is that you assume too much and you cannot seem to comprehend. That includes the lackeys who ride on your comments because their only purpose is take potshots at me because it soothes their ego. And that includes you.
By the way, you are not the only one capable of a Triamp set up. If I did choose to do a Triamp set up that would include a Diezel Herbert, A VHT UltraLead Pitbull Head and a Marshall 30th Anniversary Head plus since you seem to favor Mesa stuff, I will throw in a Quad Preamp hooked up to the switchable loop of the Diezel Herbert. Thats 11 channels versus your eight.
Can't comprehend? Putting Peter Diezel down? Funny you mention that when I actually own one of his products. If that doesn't say I like it, I don't know what does. Besides, when did I ever put the guy down? I simply called the germany and Orange County offices to make sure someone was there to accomodate your questions and calls. I mean, what kind of business would close shop - the entire shop - to attend a trade show? Any business, in my mind, would at least have someone manning support. Hell, I was doing people a favor by calling to make sure someone was there to answer the "controversial" questions that you might have. I sure as hell know I don't have any questions about my amp - its nice, works well, and hasn't had any problems since I got it.
And uh - yes, I do have a warranty on the amp head since I bought it new, thank you. But if I did end up paying for the Diezel second hand, thats would be cool too. That actually leaves me more money for pedals!
My, my - I must have touched a nerve because you have mentioned potshots in the same breath as my possible lack of comprehension! Now, lets break things down so YOU understand that I am being quite clear and you are being a d*ck and a narrowminded a$$. One, I never did say - in any form - that I would favor one amp over others. I have said this once, and I will say it again, I use what works as should other people. Moreover, I never have - at any time - preached the uber superiority of the Diezel above all other amps of equal or lesser value because - again - I use what works and strongly believe that sound, technique, and feel of the resulting song comes largely from the player.
As far as not knowing anything about specific things pertaining to pro-audio,sure, there are parts of it that my knowledge is lacking in. In such cases, I will not say anything and learn from others who know more than I. However, if there is one thing I do know in this case, its that I know Diezel's because I have worked with them before purchasing my own, and I do know a thing or two about recording and tone as a result of touring, recording, doing active work as a DJ/ remixer, and gigging. This doesn't give me a platform to brag - and I haven't - but I will offer advice and insight to those that ask for help based on what experience I have gleaned as a musician and engineer.
I don't know WHY you brought up the mutiple channels in the amps because I sure as hell would never use 11 channels in a gig or in a studio setting. Now, YOU might like tap dancing - I don't - so, I use 4 channels and basically do blends of the the Rectifier and the Diezel to get my over driven tones. If brandishing mutiple channels is your thing, cool, I am happy with what sounds my switcher and pedals can give me because it gets the job done and I spend more time playing my guitar and doing less of the Michael Flateley "Lord of the Rings" foot dancing thing.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 31, 2006, 12:13:52 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
On the hardwood cabinets, somebody asked why I did not get the matching Diezel Cabinet.
So, I explained that I am looking for a more toneful cabinet. Now, you guys have an issue with the weight of the cabinet. So ano nga ba talaga ang gusto niyo sabihin ko?
My priority for cabs is tone and weight is secondary because no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it. So because it really takes two people to carry, the weight is not a priority for me.
On the guy challenging me on the Hartke 4x8 something. I accept as long as he bring his own guitar amp to compare through the same Hartke 4x8. If the Hartke gets damaged, he pays for it. If it wrecks the output transformer of the Diezel Herbert, he buys me a new Herbert. If his guitar amp gets wrecked, he pays for it.
Why would the output trans of the Diezel get wrecked? If anything, the impedances would fall nicely in the 4, 8 or 16 inputs of the Hartke. Check the back of the cab - 4 or 16 for mono and 8 for stereo. Besides, if he uses a cab built with the Hartke aluminum cones, those would even withstand damage better from the higher frequencies of the guitar. Now, if you used a bass head with guitar speaker, you can't crank it that much otherwise you'd rip the speaker linings to shreds.
Personally, I'll use whatever cabs sound good. I just happened to settle on Mesa because they were less trebly than the 1960 marshall I was using at one time. I like the 5150 Peavey cabs too - those sound great.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 31, 2006, 12:24:17 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
.......... I just happened to settle on Mesa because they were less trebly than the 1960 marshall I was using at one time. I like the 5150 Peavey cabs too - those sound great.
Mesa's have vin30s ...correct?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 31, 2006, 12:30:27 PM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: abyssinianson
.......... I just happened to settle on Mesa because they were less trebly than the 1960 marshall I was using at one time. I like the 5150 Peavey cabs too - those sound great.
Mesa's have vin30s ...correct?
Yeah. Mine do, anyway, but I think you can get C90s with them if you prefer those. I think the trebly tone was coming from the MDF boards so someone told me to try the heavier Mesa stuff with an open back to see if that works better for me. I like it, and it works well too because I can mike the back as well for a bit of "oomph" in the mixes.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 31, 2006, 12:45:41 PM
Question. When I buy a head, is it imperative to get the matching cab ALWAYS?
Say I bought a Marshall Super Lead, should I get the matching basketweave 4x12? If I buy a Triple Recto, should I get the matching 4x12 Recto closed cab with V30's? If I buy a Mesa Mark IV, should I get the matching half-open Mesa Cab with V30's too (or EV's)? If I get an Orange OverDrive, should I also get the matching Orange 4x12 cab with V30's?
Having several half-stacks or full stacks is cool, especially with matching cabs. But when you mix cabs and heads, to me it feels like mixing Zildjian and Sabian cymbals on a kit. But if it works, then why not?
Some people are taking oas down simply because he did not get the matching cab for the Herbert, which for me is impertinent. To begin with, Diezel has several different cab configurations, so which cab are you talking about?
I admit to have gotten nice tones from the Herbert, but for me personally, I was much more blown away by the Rivera TBR1 because of the nice cleans and Marshally- grind. Nice reverb too, which the Herbert did not have. Maybe I should spend more time with the Herbie to find out why it should be that darn expensive. I don't even think it had the fluid compression of the SLO 100, which was not as apparent in the Herbert, which sounded a lot tighter. All amps have their own character, so basing on experience, to say one amp is better over the others is ridiculous. But to assume one amp is better over the others without first hand experience is far more ridiculous.
How can you even judge an amp basing an amp simulator's patch? For me that's pathetic. It's like saying you lost your virginity while jerking off to a Jenna Jameson pic. Forget about Uli Behringer's Diezel Herbert patch in the future V-Amps because amp sims cannot do justice to the real thing.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 31, 2006, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 31, 2006, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 31, 2006, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: abyssinianson
.......... I just happened to settle on Mesa because they were less trebly than the 1960 marshall I was using at one time. I like the 5150 Peavey cabs too - those sound great.
Mesa's have vin30s ...correct?
Yeah. Mine do, anyway, but I think you can get C90s with them if you prefer those. I think the trebly tone was coming from the MDF boards so someone told me to try the heavier Mesa stuff with an open back to see if that works better for me. I like it, and it works well too because I can mike the back as well for a bit of "oomph" in the mixes.
...yeah I prefer the Vin 30s....I like the warmth and the tight bass it produce....I'm not into cleans ...if I do ..I usually use a chorus on it......so I don't like speakers thats trebly.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 31, 2006, 12:54:14 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
On the hardwood cabinets, somebody asked why I did not get the matching Diezel Cabinet.
So, I explained that I am looking for a more toneful cabinet. Now, you guys have an issue with the weight of the cabinet. So ano nga ba talaga ang gusto niyo sabihin ko?
My priority for cabs is tone and weight is secondary because no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it. So because it really takes two people to carry, the weight is not a priority for me.
HHmm... may point sya dito. Ako, kung pede ba, e, solid wood cabinet ang bilhin ko kaso ala pa akong roadie, e, Tone o back injury? Hhmm... tough chioice. Stay muna ako sa Ampeg 4x12 V30s ko. Hindi mahal at trip ko naman ang tone. Ala pang sakit ng likod, yon ang importante,hehe :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 31, 2006, 12:56:40 PM
Quote from: turiguiliano
Quote from: markflo
Quote
no matter how light a 2x12 cabinet is, one person cannot carry it
maaaan...you must be really weak not to be able to carry a 2x12...that's light dude! you sure you don't have trouble strumming the guitar too?
:lol:
:lol: :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on March 31, 2006, 01:04:13 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
On the guy challenging me on the Hartke 4x8 something. I accept as long as he bring his own guitar amp to compare through the same Hartke 4x8. If the Hartke gets damaged, he pays for it. If it wrecks the output transformer of the Diezel Herbert, he buys me a new Herbert. If his guitar amp gets wrecked, he pays for it.
that wasn't even the point.
you said the diezel isn't selective of the cab you'd be driving it into. i say that's bullsh!t. you're diezel is useless if you're driving it into something like a 1x8 cab from materials bought from raon.
and cut on wrecking blah blah... you ought to show off your gear to the guys here.
show off your gear because we already know you can't play, that's why you hide behind your gear.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on March 31, 2006, 01:18:41 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
Yeah... but does that affect the tone of the amp?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 31, 2006, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
Yeah... but does that affect the tone of the amp?
good point.....I don't have problems buying 2nd hand amps.....here in the US....you can easily order parts and there are a lot of amp techs here.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 31, 2006, 02:32:50 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Question. When I buy a head, is it imperative to get the matching cab ALWAYS?
Say I bought a Marshall Super Lead, should I get the matching basketweave 4x12? If I buy a Triple Recto, should I get the matching 4x12 Recto closed cab with V30's? If I buy a Mesa Mark IV, should I get the matching half-open Mesa Cab with V30's too (or EV's)? If I get an Orange OverDrive, should I also get the matching Orange 4x12 cab with V30's?
Having several half-stacks or full stacks is cool, especially with matching cabs. But when you mix cabs and heads, to me it feels like mixing Zildjian and Sabian cymbals on a kit. But if it works, then why not?
Some people are taking oas down simply because he did not get the matching cab for the Herbert, which for me is impertinent. To begin with, Diezel has several different cab configurations, so which cab are you talking about?
I admit to have gotten nice tones from the Herbert, but for me personally, I was much more blown away by the Rivera TBR1 because of the nice cleans and Marshally- grind. Nice reverb too, which the Herbert did not have. Maybe I should spend more time with the Herbie to find out why it should be that darn expensive. I don't even think it had the fluid compression of the SLO 100, which was not as apparent in the Herbert, which sounded a lot tighter. All amps have their own character, so basing on experience, to say one amp is better over the others is ridiculous. But to assume one amp is better over the others without first hand experience is far more ridiculous.
How can you even judge an amp basing an amp simulator's patch? For me that's pathetic. It's like saying you lost your virginity while jerking off to a Jenna Jameson pic. Forget about Uli Behringer's Diezel Herbert patch in the future V-Amps because amp sims cannot do justice to the real thing.
Skunk,
You mix and match - I really don't think it matters if the cab matches but there might be a slight chance that the head performs better with a matching cab because the manufacturer MIGHT have designed the cab to emphasize the good points of the head. However, matching cabs is up to personal taste. I would have gone with any other brand and I am fine with mixing and matching.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 31, 2006, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
yes - thats true. It is pretty sweet although I don't ever anticipate having anything go wrong with the amp since it is built like a tank. But even if the 70 dollar shipping fee is too steep for me to ship the amp for servicing there are a lot of places near me that service all kinds of imported amps.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on March 31, 2006, 03:00:09 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
You mix and match - I really don't think it matters if the cab matches but there might be a slight chance that the head performs better with a matching cab because the manufacturer MIGHT have designed the cab to emphasize the good points of the head. However, matching cabs is up to personal taste. I would have gone with any other brand and I am fine with mixing and matching.
Example...Carvin's new amp the V3 was launched with a newly designed cab....the amp/cab combo was Carvin's answer to the NU Metal sound that everybody was asking for.......yet a few of the V3 owners are pairing their amps with the Legacy cabs.....so it's really finding you own tone.... you know, mix & match.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on March 31, 2006, 04:01:09 PM
i've never bought a new amp..
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 31, 2006, 08:08:48 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
geez... that's not the point. we all understand the part about if you buy new, you get a warranty... if you buy used, you don't.
ang problema is the tone that your best friend is using... read between the lines and you'll see that what he's saying is that he's so cool because he can buy new not like other folks who "just" score second-hand gear elsewhere.
can't you turn off mr. hyde? :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 31, 2006, 08:39:12 PM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
geez... that's not the point. we all understand the part about if you buy new, you get a warranty... if you buy used, you don't.
ang problema is the tone that your best friend is using... read between the lines and you'll see that what he's saying is that he's so cool because he can buy new not like other folks who "just" score second-hand gear elsewhere.
can't you turn off mr. hyde? :lol:
Dunno man but oas also bought 2nd hand stuff like his Rivera TBR1, Soldano Hot Rod 50 and Mesa Quad Preamp. Even his Marshall 30th Anniversary wasn't bought new I know.
Seems I know much about his gear. :D Actually alam ko rin anong brand ng padlock ang nasa gate nila. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on March 31, 2006, 09:12:47 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
geez... that's not the point. we all understand the part about if you buy new, you get a warranty... if you buy used, you don't.
ang problema is the tone that your best friend is using... read between the lines and you'll see that what he's saying is that he's so cool because he can buy new not like other folks who "just" score second-hand gear elsewhere.
can't you turn off mr. hyde? :lol:
Dunno man but oas also bought 2nd hand stuff like his Rivera TBR1, Soldano Hot Rod 50 and Mesa Quad Preamp. Even his Marshall 30th Anniversary wasn't bought new I know.
Seems I know much about his gear. :D Actually alam ko rin anong brand ng padlock ang nasa gate nila. :D
aha padlock pala ha! if I have that kind of gears, id get some dobermans and a mini-private army to guard my stash haha..
Sir Skunk, sure kang di ka si oas in disguise?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Zazza on March 31, 2006, 09:18:09 PM
Quote
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
araykupooo...patay tayo dyan :D if you really read it carefully and let it sink in, this sentence seems sooo inviting :D mali lang siguro ang choice of words :P indi diplomatic
don't get me wrong guys, kasi para sakin kung pulpol ang tumutugtog kahit ano pang mahal ng gamit ala din e 8) but that's just me hehehe
i remember a while back when we we're in batangas, like 4 high school/college? guys we're setting up in a local garage with unknown equipment, parang orocan-mod pa ung bass drum tapos ung antigong piano pa ang gamit, but when they started playing....OH MY GOD :shock: influence pala Ben Folds Five tsaka radiohead and Blur, grabe sa galing tumugtog, lupit pa ng stage antics/showmanship, especially when they covered BFF's "battle of who cared less". we literally stayed for awhile to see them play, while they played with their self professed MEDIOCRE gear. i said to myself "god how i wish i could hit keys like that :? and they're humble enough to let us jam in :D
just one of the numerous testament that music has no boundaries :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on March 31, 2006, 09:25:45 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: oasgomez
Are you under the Diezel lifetime warranty or are you one of those guys who just scored a 2nd hand amp somewhere?
Hhmm, Alex, what's wrong with buying 2ND HAND amps? :?:
2nd hand owners don't get the lifetime warranty. Only those who bought it brand new get that privilege.
geez... that's not the point. we all understand the part about if you buy new, you get a warranty... if you buy used, you don't.
ang problema is the tone that your best friend is using... read between the lines and you'll see that what he's saying is that he's so cool because he can buy new not like other folks who "just" score second-hand gear elsewhere.
can't you turn off mr. hyde? :lol:
Dunno man but oas also bought 2nd hand stuff like his Rivera TBR1, Soldano Hot Rod 50 and Mesa Quad Preamp. Even his Marshall 30th Anniversary wasn't bought new I know.
Seems I know much about his gear. :D Actually alam ko rin anong brand ng padlock ang nasa gate nila. :D
did dr. jekyll know that he turns into mr. hyde? :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 31, 2006, 09:30:35 PM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Sir Skunk, sure kang di ka si oas in disguise?
Sometimes nagdududa na nga ako eh. Di kaya para akong werewolf na nagiging si oas? :D Doesn't oas have a pic? He's always present during guitar clinics here in Manila, so some of you probably have seen him.
Check my sig. Look at the "Wanking Over The Fretboard" clip. That's me with the SG. And also check the Diezel with Orange cab pic. Any resemblance?
oo dude. kamukha ng man-boobs mo yung mukha mo..heheh. :lol:
peace dude.
btw. i can carry a 2x12 twin reverb all by myself, no problem. but i sure as hell wouldn't want to do that evry gig. i'd screw up my back. i'd definitely get at least 1 more guy to help. whatever words oas used, i'm sure this was what he meant.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 01, 2006, 12:38:00 AM
Quote from: spankyrigor
btw. i can carry a 2x12 twin reverb all by myself, no problem. but i sure as hell wouldn't want to do that evry gig. i'd screw up my back. i'd definitely get at least 1 more guy to help. whatever words oas used, i'm sure this was what he meant.
Man, if you're talking about barurutor's Twin Reverb, that amp gave me back problems after bringing it up and down the stairs several times. It also gave me blisters on my hands.
But a 2x12 cab would be much lighter. No tranny's, no amp chassis; just speakers. But it can still wreck your back if you don't invest on casters...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on April 01, 2006, 05:52:16 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Sir Skunk, sure kang di ka si oas in disguise?
Sometimes nagdududa na nga ako eh. Di kaya para akong werewolf na nagiging si oas? :D Doesn't oas have a pic? He's always present during guitar clinics here in Manila, so some of you probably have seen him.
Check my sig. Look at the "Wanking Over The Fretboard" clip. That's e with the SG. And also check the Diezel with Orange cab pic. Any resemblance?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 02, 2006, 08:58:12 PM
There is nothing wrong with 2nd hand amps. I was trying to make a point to Abyssinianson or something. He assumes or infers that Peter Diezel customer support is somewhat lacking given the expensive price tag of the Diezel Herbert. This perplexed me because he owns a Diezel VH4s. I do hope he is the first owner so he can be given the lifetime warranty that goes with the first owner. For somebody who owns a Diezel, he seems to put down the manufacturer which leads me to suspect that he got his VH4s 2nd hand. I can be wrong. It just seems illogical to put down the guy who designed the amp that he proudly posts pictures of.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 09:38:45 PM
Wow... I sure hope you don't work in anything that deals with public or customer relations.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 09:42:33 PM
Quote from: KitC
Wow... I sure hope you don't work in anything that deals with public or customer relations.
We deal with that $h1T everyday in government offices.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 09:51:15 PM
I used to work for the government.
I wised up.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 09:58:19 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
There is nothing wrong with 2nd hand amps. I was trying to make a point to Abyssinianson or something. He assumes or infers that Peter Diezel customer support is somewhat lacking given the expensive price tag of the Diezel Herbert. This perplexed me because he owns a Diezel VH4s. I do hope he is the first owner so he can be given the lifetime warranty that goes with the first owner. For somebody who owns a Diezel, he seems to put down the manufacturer which leads me to suspect that he got his VH4s 2nd hand. I can be wrong. It just seems illogical to put down the guy who designed the amp that he proudly posts pictures of.
Wha? Since when did I ever put Peter Diezel down? Granted, I don't know the guy but I do appreciate the effort he and Uwe have put into bringing Diezel amps to the masses. Moreover, I've never called support except for a few questions here and there when I first got the amp but that was it, it has been smooth sailing since then for me. Then here comes Oas saying that,"Oh - you can't contact them because they are away at a trade show." I mean, come on, does the ENTIRE support crew have to go out with Peter Diezel to the trade show that NO ONE would be left to answer ANY of your questions? Now, it may not sound preposterous to YOU but logical business practice dictates that it is needless to shut down shop and not leave ANYONE to answer any support questions. I don't know where I inferred anything about putting Peter Diezel down. Where? How? When? Point out an explicit quote that I - not you stuffing words into MY mouth because you, Oas, seem to be quite notorious at that - belittled Diezel's support. Point it out, pretty please! The only thing I did (which is presented several times over in explicit postings) was call Diezel at the Japan, US, and Germany supppoprt lines because it seemed strange that NO ONE would be able to answer any question you would have about the Herbert.
Hah, suprise, not only did someone answer - someone answered in ALL three countries. Wow! Imagine that! Orange County has great weather from what the support guy told me. Japan is just starting sakura season (NHK's sakura watch wwas in effect), and Dellinger was a bit chilly when I called. In all three cases, the support people asked if there was something I needed for my amp. I told them no. Hell no. The chances of my Diezel going kaput is about as likely as Oasgomez turning cordial and not being an a$$hole. I thanked them all and went my merry way.
Overall, I can deduce that I did not infer anything of the sort to put Peter Diezel's product down. The proof is there, man - I never said anything of the sort, not even close. However, the shortcomings of Oas' approach to making sense out of his own inability to support his outlandish claims is becoming quite silly. Amusing even. I mean, at least have SOME support for what you accuse me of...I hope to God you aren't a lawyer because your defense would suck. Seriously. Can you say Muntinlupa? Ditto if you played a prosecutor too. A criminal's best friend! You accuse me of potshots? Please...come back when you have something and can argue better. My 16 year old sister could litigate better than you, AND she hasn't even took the LSAT yet:)
Hey, at least I have proof what I say:) I even give out the numbers of the places I called for Diezel openly so anyone can double check. You, on the other hand, have - to this point only had an understanding of two things - Jack and sh*t - and Jack just left.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:08:53 PM
Abyssinianson, I just want to know why you got the VH4S instead of the VH4. Ako kasi pang-VHS lang ang budget ko hehe.
Why did you also choose it over the Herbie?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:10:47 PM
Quote from: KitC
I used to work for the government.
I wised up.
Wised up by leaving? :D I hope you're not one of the bureaucratic people who face the public... ;)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 10:19:50 PM
When I bought the amp, I tried a Herbie too and the store didn't have a VH4 which was what I was looking for initially. I got the VH4S because I liked the voicing of the channels better than the Herbie. That was basically it. I tried the amp with 3 different guitars - a Gretsch sparkle jet, an Epiphone Supernova and a Tele - and was sold on the VH4S' sound over the Herbert so I got that.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
I hope you're not one of the bureaucratic people who face the public... ;)
Tsk, tsk... you know what they say about peeps who make insinuations... it's like the hand that points; of the one finger that points away from you, three are pointing back.
Besides... I'm just a nameless, faceless schmuck.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: KitC
Quote from: skunkyfunk
I hope you're not one of the bureaucratic people who face the public... ;)
Tsk, tsk... you know what they say about peeps who make insinuations... it's like the hand that points; of the one finger that points away from you, three are pointing back.
Besides... I'm just a nameless, faceless schmuck.
Sorry man, but I just can't take any of the traffic violations anymore, which I get because of flimsy traffic signs. And it takes me 3 friggin' hours to claim my driver's license on a weekday. I think I am being specific about the traffic people, and the local government offices where to claim licenses. It is the 'new MMDA'. I paid 500 to claim my license in Manila City Hall just for a "Swerving" violation, which was really just a simple lane change because a phalanx of jeepneys were blocking my way while waiting for passengers.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 10:28:42 PM
If I worked for the Philippine government, I'd leave too shiii...- when I found out that Joseph Estrada got elected president I couldn't believe it. I just had to check the news to see if the people were pulling my leg. Lo and behold, there was Erap on the front webpage of the Philippine Inquirer. Only in the Philippines, man - bloody laughing stock of the global political community.
Can you imagine how hard it is to explain to someone that politicians in your country sometimes double as singers and actors? If they don't double as actors, they are still referred to in the news as "Actor/ Senator Bong Revilla." Jeezz....did that guy even go to law school? what does Nora Aunor know about law? Politicians of that level should have a graduate degree, no less. I mean, how can you expect a country to go forward with a bunch of hacks running political "reform?"
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:31:22 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
If I worked for the Philippine government, I'd leave too shiii...- when I found out that Joseph Estrada got elected president I couldn't believe it. I just had to check the news to see if the people were pulling my leg. Lo and behold, there was Erap on the front webpage of the Philippine Inquirer. Only in the Philippines, man - bloody laughing stock of the global political community.
Can you imagine how hard it is to explain to someone that politicians in your country sometimes double as singers and actors? If they don't double as actors, they are still referred to in the news as "Actor/ Senator Bong Revilla." Jeezz....did that guy even go to law school? what does Nora Aunor know about law?
Man, just imagine Lito Lapid in the senate now. Here is what he said verbatim in one interview...
...Ako naman talaga ayoko 'to (referring to being a senator) pero nanalo ako, kahit hindi man lang nakatapos ng high school. Pero gagawin ko dahil binoto ako...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 10:34:06 PM
Hahahahaha! Lito Lapid in the Senate?!?!? Wow.....well at least he was cooler than Erap. I saw one of his movies once and showed it in college class because we were having like a cultural showcase (I was up next after a Bollywood guy - THAT sh*t was hilarious). Lito Lapid shot like 20 guys - with a six shooter revolver !!!!!! How def is that? Madd cool.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:38:51 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Hahahahaha! Lito Lapid in the Senate?!?!? Wow.....well at least he was cooler than Erap. I saw one of his movies once and showed it in college class because we were having like a cultural showcase (I was up next after a Bollywood guy - THAT sh*t was hilarious). Lito Lapid shot like 20 guys - with a six shooter revolver !!!!!! How def is that? Madd cool.
Try a crippled Eddie Guttierez firing a bazooka while sitting on a wheelchair? Funny that he never moved an inch after firing. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 10:39:47 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Sorry man, but I just can't take any of the traffic violations anymore, which I get because of flimsy traffic signs. And it takes me 3 friggin' hours to claim my driver's license on a weekday. I think I am being specific about the traffic people, and the local government offices where to claim licenses. It is the 'new MMDA'. I paid 500 to claim my license in Manila City Hall just for a "Swerving" violation, which was really just a simple lane change because a phalanx of jeepneys were blocking my way while waiting for passengers.
Jeez, dude! You got an ax to grind with them and you're barking up the wrong tree with me. Not everyone who used to work in government worked for the MMDA, and when I left, that was even way before there was a MMDA. Like I said, I wised up. Why? Because I couldn't stand the corruption - there's a special place in hell reserved for those people.
Peace!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 02, 2006, 10:40:30 PM
Naku Abyss ! You havent seen nothing yet in that case !
There was this scene, there were two enemies going at him and he had only one bullet left. He took his knife, put the knife edge in front of his gun's muzzle and fired. Hit the two guys ! Nyahahahaaaa !!!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 02, 2006, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
Hahahahaha! Lito Lapid in the Senate?!?!? Wow.....well at least he was cooler than Erap. I saw one of his movies once and showed it in college class because we were having like a cultural showcase (I was up next after a Bollywood guy - THAT sh*t was hilarious). Lito Lapid shot like 20 guys - with a six shooter revolver !!!!!! How def is that? Madd cool.
Try a crippled Eddie Guttierez firing a bazooka while sitting on a wheelchair? Funny that he never moved an inch after firing. :D
Dude, bazookas don't have recoil. That's what the backblast hole at the rear is for.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:42:17 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Naku Abyss ! You havent seen nothing yet in that case !
There was this scene, there were two enemies going at him and he had only one bullet left. He took his knife, put the knife edge in front of his gun's muzzle and fired. Hit the two guys ! Nyahahahaaaa !!!!
Ay lintik! That rocked hardest! Pinoy action at best!!! :D :D :D :D :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 10:42:20 PM
so, so sad....my cousin's love watching tagalog movies even though they don't understand them because a lot of the stuff is funny. I had to explain the concept behind a "Love Team" because they were asking - are they married? are they dating? Why call it a love team? Why is she staying with the dork in the "team" if she ain't dating the guy?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 10:43:40 PM
BAMF - Yun ba ung "Isang Bala Ka Lang"? Or was that FPJ? (Obvious ba I hardly watch local cinema?) :oops:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
Hahahahaha! Lito Lapid in the Senate?!?!? Wow.....well at least he was cooler than Erap. I saw one of his movies once and showed it in college class because we were having like a cultural showcase (I was up next after a Bollywood guy - THAT sh*t was hilarious). Lito Lapid shot like 20 guys - with a six shooter revolver !!!!!! How def is that? Madd cool.
Try a crippled Eddie Guttierez firing a bazooka while sitting on a wheelchair? Funny that he never moved an inch after firing. :D
Dude, bazookas don't have recoil. That's what the backblast hole at the rear is for.
Ganun ba? Kaya pala sa Desperado nakalagay pa sa guitar case yung bazooka hehehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 10:45:07 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Naku Abyss ! You havent seen nothing yet in that case !
There was this scene, there were two enemies going at him and he had only one bullet left. He took his knife, put the knife edge in front of his gun's muzzle and fired. Hit the two guys ! Nyahahahaaaa !!!!
I stand corrected - I thought Lito Lapid and the 20 dead guys with 6 bullets was best - the "split" bullet is even better! Did I mention Lito Lapid shot the guys AFTER he jumped down from a coconut tree, rolled, THEN shot the 20 guys? I guess that still doesn't get much "cool' points huh?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 10:47:52 PM
on a different note, I was browsing the local Filipino grocery store and saw a copy of FHM Philippines with Jolina Magdangal! Man, I remember her from back in the day from that show "Ang TV." Now she is doing bomba (ST) scenes?!?! Damn!!!! Apparently, her and Sunshine Cruz are big on ST type of stuff nowadays. DAMN!!! Have I really been out of the country THAT long?!?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 02, 2006, 10:49:32 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
Hahahahaha! Lito Lapid in the Senate?!?!? Wow.....well at least he was cooler than Erap. I saw one of his movies once and showed it in college class because we were having like a cultural showcase (I was up next after a Bollywood guy - THAT sh*t was hilarious). Lito Lapid shot like 20 guys - with a six shooter revolver !!!!!! How def is that? Madd cool.
Try a crippled Eddie Guttierez firing a bazooka while sitting on a wheelchair? Funny that he never moved an inch after firing. :D
Dude, bazookas don't have recoil. That's what the backblast hole at the rear is for.
Ganun ba? Kaya pala sa Desperado nakalagay pa sa guitar case yung bazooka hehehe.
Ahhh...that's what won't work. All recoilless rifles and bazookas have a 100-ft "clear the rear" zone. If you're in the backblast area, you'll get burned...literally. Parang those idiots in "True Lies" where one fired a Stinger from inside a truck. Made toast of the driver behind the weapon. Sorry, can't help it, I was an Army Lieutenant for a time (still am...in the reserves tho').
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 10:52:31 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
on a different note, I was browsing the local Filipino grocery store and saw a copy of FHM Philippines with Jolina Magdangal! Man, I remember her from back in the day from that show "Ang TV." Now she is doing bomba (ST) scenes?!?! Damn!!!! Apparently, her and Sunshine Cruz are big on ST type of stuff nowadays. DAMN!!! Have I really been out of the country THAT long?!?
Jolina on FHM?! :shock: I gotta get out of the studio more often...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 10:53:54 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Ahhh...that's what won't work. All recoilless rifles and bazookas have a 100-ft "clear the rear" zone. If you're in the backblast area, you'll get burned...literally. Parang those idiots in "True Lies" where one fired a Stinger from inside a truck. Made toast of the driver behind the weapon. Sorry, can't help it, I was an Army Lieutenant for a time (still am...in the reserves tho').
How about that scene in Rambo? Seriously, I thought it was 40 ft.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 10:54:08 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
on a different note, I was browsing the local Filipino grocery store and saw a copy of FHM Philippines with Jolina Magdangal! Man, I remember her from back in the day from that show "Ang TV." Now she is doing bomba (ST) scenes?!?! Damn!!!! Apparently, her and Sunshine Cruz are big on ST type of stuff nowadays. DAMN!!! Have I really been out of the country THAT long?!?
Try another Ang TV Kid... Katya Santos (who was part of the kiddie bunch when Jolina was in the teenager bunch.)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 02, 2006, 10:56:09 PM
Quote from: KitC
Quote from: BAMF
Ahhh...that's what won't work. All recoilless rifles and bazookas have a 100-ft "clear the rear" zone. If you're in the backblast area, you'll get burned...literally. Parang those idiots in "True Lies" where one fired a Stinger from inside a truck. Made toast of the driver behind the weapon. Sorry, can't help it, I was an Army Lieutenant for a time (still am...in the reserves tho').
How about that scene in Rambo?
Honga. He fired an RPG from inside a Huey. Shoulda burned everything in the rear, possibly exploding the Huey. Hollywood nganaman.
40-ft..actually I remember the 100-ft from our weapons lecture on the 90mm recoilless rifle...which is much beefier than a bazooka. Baka nga.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 11:17:30 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
on a different note, I was browsing the local Filipino grocery store and saw a copy of FHM Philippines with Jolina Magdangal! Man, I remember her from back in the day from that show "Ang TV." Now she is doing bomba (ST) scenes?!?! Damn!!!! Apparently, her and Sunshine Cruz are big on ST type of stuff nowadays. DAMN!!! Have I really been out of the country THAT long?!?
Try another Ang TV Kid... Katya Santos (who was part of the kiddie bunch when Jolina was in the teenager bunch.)
Oh my God! Come Shag Me pa! Ayaw ko naman pero dahil gusto mo...sige na nga....lintek!!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 02, 2006, 11:20:25 PM
You should have seen Camille Prats in FHM like 2 months ago...
I've a friend who owns a lingerie company and one of the models who applied was a then unknown Anna Marie Falcon... She's known as Francine Prieto now. Up to now I keep wondering why she never made it to their catalog. Sayang!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 02, 2006, 11:21:45 PM
Quote from: KitC
You should have seen Camille Prats in FHM like 2 months ago...
Kayo naman! Temptasyon, lumayo ka sa akin!!..........lintek....sige na nga!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 02, 2006, 11:56:01 PM
e yung Sex scandal na si Aiza Seguerra saka si Barbie Almelbis ?
Nyuk nyuk nyuk JOK LANG PO !!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 02, 2006, 11:58:12 PM
Quote from: BAMF
e yung Sex scandal na si Aiza Seguerra saka si Barbie Almelbis ?
Nyuk nyuk nyuk JOK LANG PO !!!
Pare naman, alam mo namang bad trip ako diyan dahil type ko ang isa sa kanila...
... si Aiza. :D :D :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on April 03, 2006, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
on a different note, I was browsing the local Filipino grocery store and saw a copy of FHM Philippines with Jolina Magdangal! Man, I remember her from back in the day from that show "Ang TV." Now she is doing bomba (ST) scenes?!?! Damn!!!! Apparently, her and Sunshine Cruz are big on ST type of stuff nowadays. DAMN!!! Have I really been out of the country THAT long?!?
Di nga? Si Jolina nasa FHM??? ows? Scan naman dyan!
tapos is Camille Pratts too? si Princess Sarah??? really???
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 03, 2006, 12:19:26 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
tapos is Camille Pratts too? si Princess Sarah??? really???
yan na sya now, di ba pwedeng palakihin?...hmmm. huli kong crush si Rica peralejo nung nasa Ang TV pa sya, si camille was just a little girl noon..
Sir Kit, pano ba mainvite sa FHM party?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 03, 2006, 04:42:41 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Sir Kit, pano ba mainvite sa FHM party?
You gotta sign up here (http://fhm.com.ph/). Then they'll email you monthly about some of their events. The parties are usually held in the Fort; send them an email requesting for some invites and they'll reply when and where to pick up the invitations - usually in their offices at Galleria Suites.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 03, 2006, 04:58:01 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Sabi ko sa inyo marami kayong matututunan sa thread na 'to eh... :D
hahaha good one :P
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 08:32:57 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: KitC
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
tapos is Camille Pratts too? si Princess Sarah??? really???
Me thinks the photo was doctored to make her look slimmer...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 08:37:10 AM
And here (http://www.boybastos.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=86&pos=20)[/url] is your Rica Peralejo NOW...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on April 03, 2006, 08:41:09 AM
wow! sudden turn of events! it's really cool. lumalabas yung pagka pinoy natin. talking about something else para di na humaba usapan at mag-away. as if instinct na natin na we agree to disagree. i prefer it that way
KitC, the FHM authority :mrgreen:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on April 03, 2006, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: KitC
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
tapos is Camille Pratts too? si Princess Sarah??? really???
Me thinks the photo was doctored to make her look slimmer...
Yeah... looks kinda air brushed up or PhotoShopped.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on April 03, 2006, 08:50:57 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
And here (http://www.boybastos.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=86&pos=20)[/url] is your Rica Peralejo NOW...
Aayyyy!!! Ang lalaswa ng mga naka paskalte sa site na ire! Hindi kayang tingnan ng VIRGIN eyes ko, hehe :lol: Man, kailangang ma ROSARYO ako mamya [-o< for I am now a sinner of the flesh, boo-hoo! :oops:
Ppsstt!!! Meron pa ba kayong site na ganito, hehe atin-atin lang, hehe :lol: #-o
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 03, 2006, 08:55:00 AM
wow! :shock:
i grew up with the "ang Tv" generation..
ganun kahirap ba talaga mag acting? that they turn to THAT kind of "acting" to make money :?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 03, 2006, 09:01:30 AM
HAHAHAHA - I was laughing so hard at the picture forum Skunk posted. It just sums up everything quite nicely - "BoyBastos.com."
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 09:01:36 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
wow! :shock:
i grew up with the "ang Tv" generation..
ganun kahirap ba talaga mag acting? that they turn to THAT kind of "acting" to make money :?
I need those mature roles to buy me a Diezel Herbert. Any offers? :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 03, 2006, 09:07:09 AM
Baka meron "Love Team" na vacancy para kay Jolina o Camille Pratts subukan mo na nga:)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 03, 2006, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
HAHAHAHA - I was laughing so hard at the picture forum Skunk posted. It just sums up everything quite nicely - "BoyBastos.com."
yeah i was about to click on the link and in the status bar it said www.boybastos.com/blahblahblah so i decided not to.. not here at work :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: SDMF on April 03, 2006, 09:36:41 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
And here (http://www.boybastos.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=86&pos=20)[/url] is your Rica Peralejo NOW...
langya! Salbahe si Rica! :twisted: :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 03, 2006, 09:38:18 AM
It gets even worse man..."Manyak.com," enough said.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: SDMF on April 03, 2006, 09:41:36 AM
ayon, na-alala ko na kung saan ko dati naririnig ung boy bastos, sa prof ko nung college. hehehe!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: lykenhowl on April 03, 2006, 09:48:47 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: abyssinianson
HAHAHAHA - I was laughing so hard at the picture forum Skunk posted. It just sums up everything quite nicely - "BoyBastos.com."
yeah i was about to click on the link and in the status bar it said www.boybastos.com/blahblahblah so i decided not to.. not here at work :D
My Workplace is way cooler than yours! (Kasama ko pa mag-surf si Boss) :lol: :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: KitC on April 03, 2006, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: stratman1
Yeah... looks kinda air brushed up or PhotoShopped.
Yeah, a model/singer friend of mine said the pics were PS'd. She's kinda plump in that tv series she's starring in so the likelihood is high my friend's right.
I couldn't find any before/after PS shots of Camille, but I found this (http://glennferon.com/portfolio1/index.html) instead. If only I could see your reactions when you get to Serena...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 03, 2006, 10:41:24 AM
Quote from: lykenhowl
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: abyssinianson
HAHAHAHA - I was laughing so hard at the picture forum Skunk posted. It just sums up everything quite nicely - "BoyBastos.com."
yeah i was about to click on the link and in the status bar it said www.boybastos.com/blahblahblah so i decided not to.. not here at work :D
My Workplace is way cooler than yours! (Kasama ko pa mag-surf si Boss) :lol: :lol:
i'm the IT Manager.. gotta set an example ;)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on April 03, 2006, 11:16:26 AM
WOW YOUNG SLUTS!!! MY KIND OF GIRLS!!! :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 03, 2006, 11:21:16 AM
Quote from: Phil
WOW YOUNG SLUTS!!! MY KIND OF GIRLS!!! :twisted:
the skankier they are, the better they are! :P
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on April 03, 2006, 11:53:23 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote from: Phil
WOW YOUNG SLUTS!!! MY KIND OF GIRLS!!! :twisted:
the skankier they are, the better they are! :P
YES!!! SKUNKY YOUNG SLUTS!!!! ....they do anything....ANYTHING!!!!!! :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 11:56:04 AM
Dati hamborger. Ngayon naman ja-babes and child stars turned porn. Nyahehehe. Funny how threads started by you-know-who degenerate into something like this.
Baka naman pagod na tayong lahat sa away ? :D
Peace man ! Toke ? Shotgun ? :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jun_gats on April 03, 2006, 12:09:09 PM
wow! ito ang usapan! :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 03, 2006, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Dati hamborger. Ngayon naman ja-babes and child stars turned porn. Nyahehehe. Funny how threads started by you-know-who degenerate into something like this.
Baka naman pagod na tayong lahat sa away ? :D
Peace man ! Toke ? Shotgun ? :twisted:
BAMF, I think it just has to do with deviating from matters of preference and moving on to matters concerning unanimous agreement - babae - even though grabe ang labad ng ulo minsan pag meron ka ng syota or asawa:)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 12:47:06 PM
Negative entrophy ba ? From a state of chaos into a more ordered state ? From matters of general disagreement to matters of universal agreement ? :D Honga ano :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 03, 2006, 01:50:26 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Negative entrophy ba ? From a state of chaos into a more ordered state ? From matters of general disagreement to matters of universal agreement ? :D Honga ano :D
Yes! BAMF, Chemist/ Physicist ka ba? Pero may inverse relationship ang entropy sa utak ko pag binigyan ako ng choice ng Jolina, Camille Pratts, Sunshine Cruz at Diana Zubiri. Super entropy!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 05:50:45 PM
Parang ikaw po. Electronics Engineer :D :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on April 03, 2006, 05:56:08 PM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: skunkyfunk
And here (http://www.boybastos.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=86&pos=20)[/url] is your Rica Peralejo NOW...
Aayyyy!!! Ang lalaswa ng mga naka paskalte sa site na ire! Hindi kayang tingnan ng VIRGIN eyes ko, hehe :lol: Man, kailangang ma ROSARYO ako mamya [-o< for I am now a sinner of the flesh, boo-hoo! :oops:
Ppsstt!!! Meron pa ba kayong site na ganito, hehe atin-atin lang, hehe :lol: #-o
+100 oo nga..skunky salamat sa link, baka meron ka pa! ganda talaga ni Rica, hayyy! i can still remember watching Ang TV from 1130 to 1200 ng sabado dati! that time she already has nice legs.. hehe
Camille's photo looks really doctored...
but nevertheless, theres more to life than the monster tone you get from a Diezel Herbert...you have Rica and Camille here who will sound way way better than any boutique amps out there!
Thanks nga pala Sir Kit about the info you gave ...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 03, 2006, 06:50:05 PM
Hey! what if si Rica at Camille naka upo sad Diezel head na-nagmasaje sa likod mo while you play your guitars?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on April 03, 2006, 06:55:51 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Hey! what if si Rica at Camille naka upo sad Diezel head na-nagmasaje sa likod mo while you play your guitars?
dapat naka-upo sila sa orange cabinet mismo para mafeel nila vibrations ng cab. Feed the signal with an octave down effect....syempre chuga-chugga powerchords na lang ang banat mo :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on April 03, 2006, 06:59:19 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Hey! what if si Rica at Camille naka upo sad Diezel head na-nagmasaje sa likod mo while you play your guitars?
please please Abyss... dont put Rica and Head in the same sentence! hehehe
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 03, 2006, 07:05:00 PM
HAHAHAHA! Lintek! - I didn't even notice that! sige na nga - sa cabinet na lang at pagkatapos mag chugga chugga ka sa gitarra ng syncopated 8th at 16th notes in dropped B. Dapat, meron din background music na meron "Wah" effect parang bomba films sa 70's...bwahahaha!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 03, 2006, 08:56:02 PM
Abyssinianson,
“One, I never did say - in any form - that I would favor one amp over others. I have said this once, and I will say it again, I use what works as should other people. Moreover, I never have - at any time - preached the uber superiority of the Diezel above all other amps of equal or lesser value because - again - I use what works and strongly believe that sound, technique, and feel of the resulting song comes largely from the player.” I agree with this and I have never accused you otherwise.
“I mean, come on, does the ENTIRE support crew have to go out with Peter Diezel to the trade show that NO ONE would be left to answer ANY of your questions?” You misread the term I used -- “Diezel People” -- to mean the ENTIRE support crew. You wrongly assumed it when I was referring to the Diezel People in Germany which means Peter Diezel & his family and his immediate assistants. I was trying to answer Skunky Funk’s inquiry because he wrote directly to Peter Diezel. Now, you were the one who brought in the ENTIRE support crew issue when I was just trying to explain to Skunky Funk on why Peter Diezel will possibly not be able to answer. “wow... I just called and someone answered. Guy even remarked that - no - support hasn't gone anywhere. Whaddaya mean no one is there? Here is the number: 0049-89-930-67-27. If you can't get through, call Orange County at 714 538 1285. There are people there too. ” Look at your statement: Whaddaya mean no one is there? You wrongly assumed THERE as meaning customer support.
“I don't know WHY you brought up the mutiple channels in the amps because I sure as hell would never use 11 channels in a gig or in a studio setting” Look at your previous post, “Why? Because I have a triamp setup - Diezel VH4S and Mesa Boogie Dc-5 to a pair of 2x12 Rectifier Cabs and a Mesa Trem-O-Verb through a 4x12.” You brought it up. So why do you use a triamp setup if not for the multiple channels – 8 at that? And Now you say, “Now, YOU might like tap dancing - I don't - so, I use 4 channels and basically do blends of the the Rectifier and the Diezel to get my over driven tones.” So, triamp setup ka ba talaga? Biglang nawala ang DC-5 mo sa equation.
“Why would the output trans of the Diezel get wrecked? If anything, the impedances would fall nicely in the 4, 8 or 16 inputs of the Hartke.” Because if the wattage of Hartke 4x8 is less than 180 watts and Mr. Fretburner cranks up the volume, the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 03, 2006, 09:23:04 PM
Pallas: “With you being so anal bout your amps this is a poor excuse for not getting the matching cab” – with reference to my non-purchase of matching Diezel cabinet.
FretBurner: “wood+glue is better than wood for cabinets. they're just too friggin heavy that's why you'd rather have wood, or if you really prefer the tone from wood (y'know, preference yada yada)”
Here is a post to answer the two wise guys above:” Bob Burt makes some very nice cabinets and I will not say a bad word about him, but Bob mostly uses Pine, and with Pine I would generally agree with his comment about wood vs. plywood, however, I would like to answer in a little more detail. Hardwoods obviously have their own inherent resonance frequencies and they change slightly from 1 pc to the next. So every cabinet will in fact sound different, as opposed to plywood that will remain much closer to each other. When you create a cabinet carefully selecting the hardwoods for it you are in fact tuning the cabinet a certain way and therefore either getting rid of unwanted frequencies or adding wanted ones. That will remain constant no matter what volume you are playing at, so for instance the 4x12 that is featured on my site is an amazing sound cabinet that has no standing resonance notes on the fretboard. I'm sure when you play most of the time there are few palm muted notes that will cause really annoying resonance sounds to come from your cabinet and it gets worse as you get louder. This 4x12 is totally clean in that respect, and when it is cranked if you told me it sounds like a plywood cabinet I would laugh at you. My point is that the materials by themselves are not what makes the cabinet sound better, the materials when combined with solid design and therefore a degree of tuning do. The other difference and this could be where Bob was coming from is that the louder things are the harder it is for the human ear to discern details, our ears have a threshold that once passed everything starts to sound the same volume. For example if you have ever been to large concert and sat really up close to the speakers, you'd notice how everything sounds overwhelming as where if you were back twenty rows it would sound much better but you just wouldn't see as well lol. I don't want to spend a ton of time on this, but hopefully you see what I am getting at.”
So, I am gonna spend money to try this guy out. If his product delivers, I will pound the hell out of both Pallas and Fretburner’s plywood cabinets. Thats the point of the quest for tone. You just try and try.
Fretburner: “bullsh!t. maybe you should buy that hartke piggy back 4x8's. let's see if your diezel can beat a blue voodoo.” --- I am ready to take on your Blue Voodoo with the Diezel Herbert even on a raon 1x8 cabinet. Just pay for the damage on the amp. I will tell you that the Herbert will sound better than your Blue Voodoo even on the raon 1x8 cabinet.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
“Why would the output trans of the Diezel get wrecked? If anything, the impedances would fall nicely in the 4, 8 or 16 inputs of the Hartke.” Because if the wattage of Hartke 4x8 is less than 180 watts and Mr. Fretburner cranks up the volume, the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
Oas is right with this one. This half-stack has a 4x8 cab. The head is 60W. Me thinks if you plug the Herbert it is either the cab gets blown (possibly the voice coils might get fried), or the Herbie's output tranny gets fried, even if the impedances match. There is no power handling rate for the cab mentioned. Must depend on the wattage of each speaker x 4.
Funny that some folks would prefer an impedance mismatch with overrated drivers than matching cab and head impedance when the cab is underrated.
BTW if I ain't mistaken, I've seen one of these mini Hartke stacks in Saguijo. They sound so dull and tinny.
Anyway, I don't think Fretburner was there to insist on the 4x8 in a real sense. In fact he even mentioned matching the herbert with a 1x8 cab with a speaker made in Raon, which by instinct, is obviously underrated. I think the whole idea is he wants to make a devil's advocate to refute oas' claim that the Herbert is not choosy with cabs, as an absolute rule.
In defense of oas, I suspect he was just saying that the Herbert is more flexible, hence, you can use a variety of cabs on the condition that the drivers can handle the power. You can throw in V30s, EVs, G12-T75s, etc., for as long as they can take the Herbert's 180W. I think this is where the global deep and presence settings come into the picture. It just does not help compensate for different guitar types, but with a variety of cabinets as well.
Now on with the FHM ladies... :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: dod on April 03, 2006, 09:49:53 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
That's strange. Impedance = 0 when the speakers short. Impedance = infinity when it becomes open or when there is no speaker. Right?
Title: PETER DIEZEL ANSWERS...
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 09:59:40 PM
Alas, here is THE PETER DIEZEL'S response to my email. Please read carefully... Hello Dodjiie !
This is a message from skunky_funk at Harmony Central User Forums ( http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/index.php ). The Harmony Central User Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
To email skunky_funk, you can use this online form: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/member.php?action=mailform&userid =8918
OR, by email: mailto:dodjiegarcia@yahoo.com
This is the message:
Hi Peter. This is Dodjie Garcia from Manila, Philippines. Remember I had a thread at Harmony-Central before regarding the Herbert? I was so glad that a good friend of mine purchased a Herbert about a week ago. I had the chance to try it for myself. Here is myself wanking with his baby...
Anyway, there is an ongoing thread in one of our local guitar forums. So I tried to condense some of the few issues regarding the amp's capabilities. Please answer each question as honsetlsy and straightforwardly as possible.
So here are the questions:
1. Can two 4x12 cabinets with Celestion Greenbacks withstand the Herbert's 180W power?
Yes they should, but be careful with old speakers.[/color]
2. Is the Clean channel's circuit derived from a Fender circuit?
No, it´s very different.[/color]
3. Is Channel 2 derived from a Marshall Plexi circuit?
No, it´s also very different[/color]
4. Was Channel 3 really designed to be a mid-gain channel, as opposed to ultra high gain as most were expecting?
Channel 3 is a high gain channel with prefered distortion on the midrange.[/color]
5. What is the difference of the Herbert from the VH4 and VH4S tonewise? What is your opinion on each model and how would you recommend each amp to different playing styles?
The Herbert sounds more raw than the VH4. The VH4 is more hifi. Herbert = modern rock, VH4 = classic rock.[/color]
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
7. Was the Herbert designed primarily to have consistent linearity in the power section, meaning that the sound does not change as the volume increases, which has some sort of hi-fi effect?
That´s right :-)[/color]
8. How do you think does the Herbert compete with a Bogner Ecstasy?
Completely different amps.[/color]
9. What are the advantages/disadvantages of using the matching cabinet of the Herbert? So far we have tried it only with two Orange 2x12s, one with G12T-75s and the other with V30's.
You don´t have to use a Diezel cab.[/color]
10. Do you think the Herbert can take down any production amp out there, including a Peavey JSX Joe Satriani sig amp?
Tastes are different and I never would say any bad word about my competitors.[/color]
11. Why do you think should we rather save $4100 for the Herbert than buy several different amps? What are the advantages of owning the Herbert over several amps?
You don´t have to, but if You believe that is worth the money so please buy it. You also have to know that I earn $ 400 on the amp. [/color] I hope I can get enlightened with your comments soon. Seriously, I am considering of owning one to replace all the amps I intend to buy.
Hope to have You as a customer soon :-))
Cheers! [/color]
Sincerely,
Dodjie
Sincerely,
Peter[/color]
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on April 03, 2006, 10:56:17 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Pallas: “With you being so anal bout your amps this is a poor excuse for not getting the matching cab” – with reference to my non-purchase of matching Diezel cabinet.
FretBurner: “wood+glue is better than wood for cabinets. they're just too friggin heavy that's why you'd rather have wood, or if you really prefer the tone from wood (y'know, preference yada yada)”
Here is a post to answer the two wise guys above:” Bob Burt makes some very nice cabinets and I will not say a bad word about him, but Bob mostly uses Pine, and with Pine I would generally agree with his comment about wood vs. plywood, however, I would like to answer in a little more detail. Hardwoods obviously have their own inherent resonance frequencies and they change slightly from 1 pc to the next. So every cabinet will in fact sound different, as opposed to plywood that will remain much closer to each other. When you create a cabinet carefully selecting the hardwoods for it you are in fact tuning the cabinet a certain way and therefore either getting rid of unwanted frequencies or adding wanted ones. That will remain constant no matter what volume you are playing at, so for instance the 4x12 that is featured on my site is an amazing sound cabinet that has no standing resonance notes on the fretboard. I'm sure when you play most of the time there are few palm muted notes that will cause really annoying resonance sounds to come from your cabinet and it gets worse as you get louder. This 4x12 is totally clean in that respect, and when it is cranked if you told me it sounds like a plywood cabinet I would laugh at you. My point is that the materials by themselves are not what makes the cabinet sound better, the materials when combined with solid design and therefore a degree of tuning do. The other difference and this could be where Bob was coming from is that the louder things are the harder it is for the human ear to discern details, our ears have a threshold that once passed everything starts to sound the same volume. For example if you have ever been to large concert and sat really up close to the speakers, you'd notice how everything sounds overwhelming as where if you were back twenty rows it would sound much better but you just wouldn't see as well lol. I don't want to spend a ton of time on this, but hopefully you see what I am getting at.”
So, I am gonna spend money to try this guy out. If his product delivers, I will pound the hell out of both Pallas and Fretburner’s plywood cabinets. Thats the point of the quest for tone. You just try and try.
Fretburner: “bullsh!t. maybe you should buy that hartke piggy back 4x8's. let's see if your diezel can beat a blue voodoo.” --- I am ready to take on your Blue Voodoo with the Diezel Herbert even on a raon 1x8 cabinet. Just pay for the damage on the amp. I will tell you that the Herbert will sound better than your Blue Voodoo even on the raon 1x8 cabinet.
SPANK ME ....DADDY :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 10:59:25 PM
Quote from: pallas
Quote from: oasgomez
Pallas: “With you being so anal bout your amps this is a poor excuse for not getting the matching cab” – with reference to my non-purchase of matching Diezel cabinet.
FretBurner: “wood+glue is better than wood for cabinets. they're just too friggin heavy that's why you'd rather have wood, or if you really prefer the tone from wood (y'know, preference yada yada)”
Here is a post to answer the two wise guys above:” Bob Burt makes some very nice cabinets and I will not say a bad word about him, but Bob mostly uses Pine, and with Pine I would generally agree with his comment about wood vs. plywood, however, I would like to answer in a little more detail. Hardwoods obviously have their own inherent resonance frequencies and they change slightly from 1 pc to the next. So every cabinet will in fact sound different, as opposed to plywood that will remain much closer to each other. When you create a cabinet carefully selecting the hardwoods for it you are in fact tuning the cabinet a certain way and therefore either getting rid of unwanted frequencies or adding wanted ones. That will remain constant no matter what volume you are playing at, so for instance the 4x12 that is featured on my site is an amazing sound cabinet that has no standing resonance notes on the fretboard. I'm sure when you play most of the time there are few palm muted notes that will cause really annoying resonance sounds to come from your cabinet and it gets worse as you get louder. This 4x12 is totally clean in that respect, and when it is cranked if you told me it sounds like a plywood cabinet I would laugh at you. My point is that the materials by themselves are not what makes the cabinet sound better, the materials when combined with solid design and therefore a degree of tuning do. The other difference and this could be where Bob was coming from is that the louder things are the harder it is for the human ear to discern details, our ears have a threshold that once passed everything starts to sound the same volume. For example if you have ever been to large concert and sat really up close to the speakers, you'd notice how everything sounds overwhelming as where if you were back twenty rows it would sound much better but you just wouldn't see as well lol. I don't want to spend a ton of time on this, but hopefully you see what I am getting at.”
So, I am gonna spend money to try this guy out. If his product delivers, I will pound the hell out of both Pallas and Fretburner’s plywood cabinets. Thats the point of the quest for tone. You just try and try.
Fretburner: “bullsh!t. maybe you should buy that hartke piggy back 4x8's. let's see if your diezel can beat a blue voodoo.” --- I am ready to take on your Blue Voodoo with the Diezel Herbert even on a raon 1x8 cabinet. Just pay for the damage on the amp. I will tell you that the Herbert will sound better than your Blue Voodoo even on the raon 1x8 cabinet.
SPANK ME ....DADDY :lol:
Man I just hope Peter's email answers your hypothesis.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: pallas on April 03, 2006, 11:00:16 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Pallas: “With you being so anal bout your amps this is a poor excuse for not getting the matching cab” – with reference to my non-purchase of matching Diezel cabinet.
FretBurner: “wood+glue is better than wood for cabinets. they're just too friggin heavy that's why you'd rather have wood, or if you really prefer the tone from wood (y'know, preference yada yada)”
Here is a post to answer the two wise guys above:” Bob Burt makes some very nice cabinets and I will not say a bad word about him, but Bob mostly uses Pine, and with Pine I would generally agree with his comment about wood vs. plywood, however, I would like to answer in a little more detail. Hardwoods obviously have their own inherent resonance frequencies and they change slightly from 1 pc to the next. So every cabinet will in fact sound different, as opposed to plywood that will remain much closer to each other. When you create a cabinet carefully selecting the hardwoods for it you are in fact tuning the cabinet a certain way and therefore either getting rid of unwanted frequencies or adding wanted ones. That will remain constant no matter what volume you are playing at, so for instance the 4x12 that is featured on my site is an amazing sound cabinet that has no standing resonance notes on the fretboard. I'm sure when you play most of the time there are few palm muted notes that will cause really annoying resonance sounds to come from your cabinet and it gets worse as you get louder. This 4x12 is totally clean in that respect, and when it is cranked if you told me it sounds like a plywood cabinet I would laugh at you. My point is that the materials by themselves are not what makes the cabinet sound better, the materials when combined with solid design and therefore a degree of tuning do. The other difference and this could be where Bob was coming from is that the louder things are the harder it is for the human ear to discern details, our ears have a threshold that once passed everything starts to sound the same volume. For example if you have ever been to large concert and sat really up close to the speakers, you'd notice how everything sounds overwhelming as where if you were back twenty rows it would sound much better but you just wouldn't see as well lol. I don't want to spend a ton of time on this, but hopefully you see what I am getting at.”
So, I am gonna spend money to try this guy out. If his product delivers, I will pound the hell out of both Pallas and Fretburner’s plywood cabinets. Thats the point of the quest for tone. You just try and try.
Fretburner: “bullsh!t. maybe you should buy that hartke piggy back 4x8's. let's see if your diezel can beat a blue voodoo.” --- I am ready to take on your Blue Voodoo with the Diezel Herbert even on a raon 1x8 cabinet. Just pay for the damage on the amp. I will tell you that the Herbert will sound better than your Blue Voodoo even on the raon 1x8 cabinet.
SPANK ME :P ....daddy 8) :lol: ....By the way an amp named Herbert doesnt sound like a 3 channel fire breathing dragon. If Homer played guitar that would be his cute amp cum small beer table.
Title: Re: PETER DIEZEL ANSWERS...
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on April 03, 2006, 11:20:41 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
8. How do you think does the Herbert compete with a Bogner Ecstasy?
Completely different amps.[/color]
10. Do you think the Herbert can take down any production amp out there, including a Peavey JSX Joe Satriani sig amp?
Tastes are different and I never would say any bad word about my competitors.[/color]
11. Why do you think should we rather save $4100 for the Herbert than buy several different amps? What are the advantages of owning the Herbert over several amps?
You don´t have to, but if You believe that is worth the money so please buy it. You also have to know that I earn $ 400 on the amp. [/color]
Buti pa yung mismong gumawa ng Amp, very humble and walang angas!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 11:21:32 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Oas is right with this one. This half-stack has a 4x8 cab. The head is 60W. Me thinks if you plug the Herbert it is either the cab gets blown
Anyway, I don't think Fretburner was there to insist on the 4x8 in a real sense. In fact he even mentioned matching the herbert with a 1x8 cab with a speaker made in Raon, which by instinct, is obviously underrated.
Ummm...politely, sir, that's an over-generalization. I have a "Raon Speaker Cabinet"...which uses a Crown instrument speaker rated at 200 Watts RMS. That's just a 10% Engineering margin, but I think it's enough to withstand 180 Watts RMS. There are even bigger ones. Naturally, if you match it with a 100 Watt RMS driver, something bad will happen. Let's get that out of the way.
Being relatively cheap next to a "real" cab, I'd gladly throw this into the fray if you want to test your hypothesis. It's even cheaper to have it rewound if it ever burns.
But again, methinks it's not the output transformer that will be in peril, but rather the output tubes. Those will suffer "standing waves"...a return of energy back into the primary circuit if there is nothing to sink the energy that they put out on the secondary. Being more fragile than the output tranny, they will be the first to burn out.
O...I think the only thing missing is a place where you can plug those amps and crank them up to full capacity without getting shot at. Game ?
Title: Re: PETER DIEZEL ANSWERS...
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: skunkyfunk
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
8. How do you think does the Herbert compete with a Bogner Ecstasy?
Completely different amps.[/color]
10. Do you think the Herbert can take down any production amp out there, including a Peavey JSX Joe Satriani sig amp?
Tastes are different and I never would say any bad word about my competitors.[/color]
11. Why do you think should we rather save $4100 for the Herbert than buy several different amps? What are the advantages of owning the Herbert over several amps?
You don´t have to, but if You believe that is worth the money so please buy it. You also have to know that I earn $ 400 on the amp. [/color]
Buti pa yung mismong gumawa ng Amp, very humble and walang angas!
So that means, the materials and labor are slightly below $3700? May markup pa kasi ang dealers. So let us assume it costs around $3000 to build the Herbie?
Title: Re: PETER DIEZEL ANSWERS...
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on April 03, 2006, 11:27:57 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: skunkyfunk
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
8. How do you think does the Herbert compete with a Bogner Ecstasy?
Completely different amps.[/color]
10. Do you think the Herbert can take down any production amp out there, including a Peavey JSX Joe Satriani sig amp?
Tastes are different and I never would say any bad word about my competitors.[/color]
11. Why do you think should we rather save $4100 for the Herbert than buy several different amps? What are the advantages of owning the Herbert over several amps?
You don´t have to, but if You believe that is worth the money so please buy it. You also have to know that I earn $ 400 on the amp. [/color]
Buti pa yung mismong gumawa ng Amp, very humble and walang angas!
So that means, the materials and labor are slightly below $3700? May markup pa kasi ang dealers. So let us assume it costs around $3000 to build the Herbie?
I think he said I , dont you think he has other people working for him? Going rate ng labor here in Europe, yung pinakamura is around 20Euros per hour...that is for babysitters and cleaners na legal.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Oas is right with this one. This half-stack has a 4x8 cab. The head is 60W. Me thinks if you plug the Herbert it is either the cab gets blown
Anyway, I don't think Fretburner was there to insist on the 4x8 in a real sense. In fact he even mentioned matching the herbert with a 1x8 cab with a speaker made in Raon, which by instinct, is obviously underrated.
Ummm...politely, sir, that's an over-generalization. I have a "Raon Speaker Cabinet"...which uses a Crown instrument speaker rated at 200 Watts RMS. That's just a 10% Engineering margin, but I think it's enough to withstand 180 Watts RMS. There are even bigger ones. Naturally, if you match it with a 100 Watt RMS driver, something bad will happen. Let's get that out of the way.
Being relatively cheap next to a "real" cab, I'd gladly throw this into the fray if you want to test your hypothesis. It's even cheaper to have it rewound if it ever burns.
But again, methinks it's not the output transformer that will be in peril, but rather the output tubes. Those will suffer "standing waves"...a return of energy back into the primary circuit if there is nothing to sink the energy that they put out on the secondary. Being more fragile than the output tranny, they will be the first to burn out.
O...I think the only thing missing is a place where you can plug those amps and crank them up to full capacity without getting shot at. Game ?
Yeah, but the question is are you willing to replace a $4100 amp in case it gets damaged? I can't say it will, but we have to play it safe. Now that Peter answered the Greenie cab question, maybe we should ask someone to lend two of these to oas and test it out:
Title: Re: PETER DIEZEL ANSWERS...
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 11:34:21 PM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Quote from: skunkyfunk
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
8. How do you think does the Herbert compete with a Bogner Ecstasy?
Completely different amps.[/color]
10. Do you think the Herbert can take down any production amp out there, including a Peavey JSX Joe Satriani sig amp?
Tastes are different and I never would say any bad word about my competitors.[/color]
11. Why do you think should we rather save $4100 for the Herbert than buy several different amps? What are the advantages of owning the Herbert over several amps?
You don´t have to, but if You believe that is worth the money so please buy it. You also have to know that I earn $ 400 on the amp. [/color]
Buti pa yung mismong gumawa ng Amp, very humble and walang angas!
So that means, the materials and labor are slightly below $3700? May markup pa kasi ang dealers. So let us assume it costs around $3000 to build the Herbie?
I think he said I , dont you think he has other people working for him? Going rate ng labor here in Europe, yung pinakamura is around 20Euros per hour...that is for babysitters and cleaners na legal.
Maybe Peter should relocate his factory to Manila. :D
Or maybe I should learn to babysit in Europe. That way I might afford a Diezel soon... :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on April 03, 2006, 11:34:48 PM
sigh...when will it end???
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 11:36:45 PM
Ahhh...I won't replace anything. The most I will do is to have my speaker rewound. That's my risk...at the reward of watching a real amp showdown.
Actually, I have two of them. If you guys really want to play it safe, let's wire them in parallel and into the 4 ohms. Or even safer, wire it in series and into the 16 ohm tap (much lower current flow). That is 400 W of speaker rating right there and very safe on that side. Besides the challenge was not about power, but tone superiority, on any cabinet.
Both sides issued their challenges, I threw in something that will hopefully facilitate this match. Anyone who backs out is chicken.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 11:38:27 PM
Quote from: markflo
sigh...when will it end???
Maybe not until I post the next few Rica Peralejo pics... :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 03, 2006, 11:43:45 PM
Another question, aren't Raon parts kind of misleading in terms of specs? I remember buying some locally-wound transformer for modding my bass preamp's power supply to 220VAC-12VAC/500mA. My bass preamp was asking for 400mA. The original was a 120VAC-12VAC and also rated at 500mA. To my surprise, the local transformer lasted a few seconds and burned. No shorts I am pretty sure. Just too much current draw. Lito Bote told me that as a rule of thumb, never believe in the so-called "ratings" in local Raon parts. So when some Miyama speaker says it can handle 100W, assume it might handle around 60W.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 11:47:03 PM
Teka...na-bobing na naman ako I forgot to point out something very important.
Output power of an amp is ALWAYS associated with the output impedance. So to say 180W is incomplete. It should be 180W into 8 ohms. If you double the output impedance say to 16 ohms, you halve the output power to only 90 Watts. Ditto, if you have a 180 Watt into 8 ohm amp drive a 4 ohm load, you double the output power to 360 Watts.
Derpor, putting the 8 ohm 200 W drivers in series (16 ohms) will result in a total power of 90 W for the Herbert. Verry safe...compared to the 400 Watts of total speaker rating waiting for its signal.
So everything is kosher. When and Where ? Syempre dapat invited ako if you're going to use my Raon drivers.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 11:51:09 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Another question, aren't Raon parts kind of misleading in terms of specs? I remember buying some locally-wound transformer for modding my bass preamp's power supply to 220VAC-12VAC/500mA. My bass preamp was asking for 400mA. The original was a 120VAC-12VAC and also rated at 500mA. To my surprise, the local transformer lasted a few seconds and burned. No shorts I am pretty sure. Just too much current draw. Lito Bote told me that as a rule of thumb, never believe in the so-called "ratings" in local Raon parts. So when some Miyama speaker says it can handle 100W, assume it might handle around 60W.
Actually, the "local" stuff are quite good...brands like Lion for trannies, Dai-ichi and Crown for speakers. It's the Chinese stuff that's under-rated.
Besides, siguro naman 400 Watts total rating vs 90W into 16 ohms...siguro naman the discrepancy can't be so bad as to burn anything. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 03, 2006, 11:54:37 PM
By the way, what's really misleading are the PMPO and RMS ratings. Ask na lang if you're unsure of the difference kasi medyo mahabang kwento yun :D .
PMPO ratings are very misleading, they rack up very large numbers. Like 2000 Watts (small type : PMPO). It's a "marketing" rating. The real "engineering" rating is the Root Mean Square. That's something a shopper really has to look out for. Baka yun ang sinasabi ni Tolits Tebots.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: BAMF
Teka...na-bobing na naman ako I forgot to point out something very important.
Output power of an amp is ALWAYS associated with the output impedance. So to say 180W is incomplete. It should be 180W into 8 ohms. If you double the output impedance say to 16 ohms, you halve the output power to only 90 Watts. Ditto, if you have a 180 Watt into 8 ohm amp drive a 4 ohm load, you double the output power to 360 Watts.
Derpor, putting the 8 ohm 200 W drivers in series (16 ohms) will result in a total power of 90 W for the Herbert. Verry safe...compared to the 400 Watts of total speaker rating waiting for its signal.
So everything is kosher. When and Where ? Syempre dapat invited ako if you're going to use my Raon drivers.
Teka, paano ba 'to. Review ko muna KVL and KCL ko. Si oas dapat sumagot nito sa hamon mo eh. :D
So say you have an amp that can deliver 180W maximum, that means that in order to maximize the power, the amp "sees" an impedance that is of equal amount to the equivalent impedance of the amp in totality, diba? So assuming your amp wants to see an 8ohm load, dapat, 8ohms din ang cabinet diba? Hence you get P power across your 8ohm cabinet. Otherwise, if you hook it to let us say a 16ohm cab, mangyayari, you get 4/9*P power that of the one in the 8ohm cab configuration. I let us check with the EE folks because I flunked EE so bad...
So assuming that as you increase the impedance of the cab, less power is dissipated by the cabinet, and the remaining power is handled by the amp's internal impedance. That is what may cause the wreckage.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 12:05:11 AM
PMPO is also misleading. RMS is the "effective" value. Now I am pissed whhy I didn't get an EE degree...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 12:18:53 AM
Oh lastly, tube amps are not very good at impedance mismatches. Solidstate amps can handle impedance matches well though. Maybe you might just blow a fuse and whatnot. But for tube amps, you are putting the caps, output tubes, and output transformer in danger.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 12:43:03 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Teka...na-bobing na naman ako I forgot to point out something very important.
Output power of an amp is ALWAYS associated with the output impedance. So to say 180W is incomplete. It should be 180W into 8 ohms. If you double the output impedance say to 16 ohms, you halve the output power to only 90 Watts. Ditto, if you have a 180 Watt into 8 ohm amp drive a 4 ohm load, you double the output power to 360 Watts.
Derpor, putting the 8 ohm 200 W drivers in series (16 ohms) will result in a total power of 90 W for the Herbert. Verry safe...compared to the 400 Watts of total speaker rating waiting for its signal.
So everything is kosher. When and Where ? Syempre dapat invited ako if you're going to use my Raon drivers.
Teka, paano ba 'to. Review ko muna KVL and KCL ko. Si oas dapat sumagot nito sa hamon mo eh. :D
So say you have an amp that can deliver 180W maximum, that means that in order to maximize the power, the amp "sees" an impedance that is of equal amount to the equivalent impedance of the amp in totality, diba? So assuming your amp wants to see an 8ohm load, dapat, 8ohms din ang cabinet diba? Hence you get P power across your 8ohm cabinet. Otherwise, if you hook it to let us say a 16ohm cab, mangyayari, you get 4/9*P power that of the one in the 8ohm cab configuration. I let us check with the EE folks because I flunked EE so bad...
So assuming that as you increase the impedance of the cab, less power is dissipated by the cabinet, and the remaining power is handled by the amp's internal impedance. That is what may cause the wreckage.
Ngek ! Mahabang kwentuhan to. Asan na ba si Abyssinianson ?
Sige na nga...
Power devices will only give out what you "pull" out of it. The "pull" by a load is determined by its resistance, or impedance in AC terms. No need for KCL and KVL, a simple E=IR will do. Or in AC terms, E=IZ where Z is the Impedance, I is the current and E is the voltage.
Speakers, being just wires wound around a magnet, has its power rating defined by how "thick" the coil wire is. And that is due to the current (it's AC- voltage-insensitive, it's just a wire). So...if I=E/R, given that the E is constant, if you decrease R, you increase the I. Roughly the same goes for the amp. Decrease the R, you increase the I and this is where you get the peril of burning the output tranny or the output tubes (which both have a maximum current rating which must not be exceeded.) Conversely, if you increase the R in the I=E/R, you decrease the current.
Teka...aren't we all missing the point, including myself ? The challenge was a TONE challenge, on any cab. Means, this challenge will work even if oas brings his orange cab and then we switch cabs to try the BlueVoodoo. Ditto if the other guy brings HIS cab. Hmmm...
Pero sige. My drivers are still here if nobody decides to chicken out.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 12:49:27 AM
Eto na lang.
P=I(squared)R.
If you divide R by 2, the 2 gets transposed and you get 2P. You double the power if you halve the resistance. Similarly, if you multiply R by 2, the 2 gets transposed and you get P/2. Thus showing mathematically that if you double the resistance, you halve the power.
BAMF
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on April 04, 2006, 12:51:15 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Oas is right with this one. This half-stack has a 4x8 cab. The head is 60W. Me thinks if you plug the Herbert it is either the cab gets blown
Anyway, I don't think Fretburner was there to insist on the 4x8 in a real sense. In fact he even mentioned matching the herbert with a 1x8 cab with a speaker made in Raon, which by instinct, is obviously underrated.
Ummm...politely, sir, that's an over-generalization. I have a "Raon Speaker Cabinet"...which uses a Crown instrument speaker rated at 200 Watts RMS. That's just a 10% Engineering margin, but I think it's enough to withstand 180 Watts RMS. There are even bigger ones. Naturally, if you match it with a 100 Watt RMS driver, something bad will happen. Let's get that out of the way.
Being relatively cheap next to a "real" cab, I'd gladly throw this into the fray if you want to test your hypothesis. It's even cheaper to have it rewound if it ever burns.
But again, methinks it's not the output transformer that will be in peril, but rather the output tubes. Those will suffer "standing waves"...a return of energy back into the primary circuit if there is nothing to sink the energy that they put out on the secondary. Being more fragile than the output tranny, they will be the first to burn out.
O...I think the only thing missing is a place where you can plug those amps and crank them up to full capacity without getting shot at. Game ?
Yeah, but the question is are you willing to replace a $4100 amp in case it gets damaged? I can't say it will, but we have to play it safe. Now that Peter answered the Greenie cab question, maybe we should ask someone to lend two of these to oas and test it out:
Hey! I have one I can lend you. Now all you have to do is find another one to complete your 2 cab test, hehe. Oh, also... you might want to fly here in Cali because I'm not shipping the cab there, hehe :lol: .
I used a similar Marshall with greenies cab when I go out gigging. My head is a Triple Recti. Now, Mesa says it's 150 watts. I never had any problem with the head tranny or the cab speakers blowing up. That set-up get's prety loud. If tried goin pass 12:00 before, say 2:00, but don't really suggest doing that too often. Your band mates will hate you because you get lost within the song progression because your too loud to hear the rest of the band, the sound tech in any club will constantly bug you to turn down the volume, and, you will loose your hearing.
Not sure if this post have any relevance to the argumentation but I thought I'd share a thing or two, hehe :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 12:51:49 AM
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Teka...na-bobing na naman ako I forgot to point out something very important.
Output power of an amp is ALWAYS associated with the output impedance. So to say 180W is incomplete. It should be 180W into 8 ohms. If you double the output impedance say to 16 ohms, you halve the output power to only 90 Watts. Ditto, if you have a 180 Watt into 8 ohm amp drive a 4 ohm load, you double the output power to 360 Watts.
Derpor, putting the 8 ohm 200 W drivers in series (16 ohms) will result in a total power of 90 W for the Herbert. Verry safe...compared to the 400 Watts of total speaker rating waiting for its signal.
So everything is kosher. When and Where ? Syempre dapat invited ako if you're going to use my Raon drivers.
Teka, paano ba 'to. Review ko muna KVL and KCL ko. Si oas dapat sumagot nito sa hamon mo eh. :D
So say you have an amp that can deliver 180W maximum, that means that in order to maximize the power, the amp "sees" an impedance that is of equal amount to the equivalent impedance of the amp in totality, diba? So assuming your amp wants to see an 8ohm load, dapat, 8ohms din ang cabinet diba? Hence you get P power across your 8ohm cabinet. Otherwise, if you hook it to let us say a 16ohm cab, mangyayari, you get 4/9*P power that of the one in the 8ohm cab configuration. I let us check with the EE folks because I flunked EE so bad...
So assuming that as you increase the impedance of the cab, less power is dissipated by the cabinet, and the remaining power is handled by the amp's internal impedance. That is what may cause the wreckage.
Ngek ! Mahabang kwentuhan to. Asan na ba si Abyssinianson ?
Sige na nga...
Power devices will only give out what you "pull" out of it. The "pull" by a load is determined by its resistance, or impedance in AC terms. No need for KCL and KVL, a simple E=IR will do. Or in AC terms, E=IZ where Z is the Impedance, I is the current and E is the voltage.
Speakers, being just wires wound around a magnet, has its power rating defined by how "thick" the coil wire is. And that is due to the current (it's AC- voltage-insensitive, it's just a wire). So...if I=E/R, given that the E is constant, if you decrease R, you increase the I. Roughly the same goes for the amp. Decrease the R, you increase the I and this is where you get the peril of burning the output tranny or the output tubes (which both have a maximum current rating which must not be exceeded.) Conversely, if you increase the R in the I=E/R, you decrease the current.
Teka...aren't we all missing the point, including myself ? The challenge was a TONE challenge, on any cab. Means, this challenge will work even if oas brings his orange cab and then we switch cabs to try the BlueVoodoo. Ditto if the other guy brings HIS cab. Hmmm...
Pero sige. My drivers are still here if nobody decides to chicken out.
I don't know man, but I think as with any "stunt", you must minimize risks.
Correction. If you double the required impedance of an amp, the power you get across is 9/16 that of the power when using the required impedance. The rest of the 7/16 is absorbed by the amp itself. My inference is that this 7/16 of power shall be disspipated by the output transformer's primary, output tubes, or caps. I just thought of the theory of maximum power transfer.
Anyway, yes I think a tone challenge would be nice, provided that everyone goes home happy, with undamaged gear.
So parang Blue Voodoo vs. Herbert + raon cab? I think oas said something about plugging to a raon cab...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: eders19 on April 04, 2006, 12:55:45 AM
while i may not be someone who posts a lot of stuff in the forums, i do read them a lot so as to acquire more knowledge that can be useful to me. i've been following this thread for some time, and to be honest, it's not very informative anymore. parang payabangan lang. sana pag-usapan nalang ulit yung mga babae or probably something else.
in synthesis: stop proving your point because it's pointless.
seryoso di na siya nakakatuwa, nakakapagod lang.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 12:56:53 AM
Isa pa...just to make sure I hit the nail on the head :D .
Properly designed amps *should* be able to deliver their rated power at all impedances its designed to operate on.
Actually, if an amp has 3 taps, 4 ohms, 8 ohms and 16 ohms and the spec sheets only say 180W @ 8 ohms, it is *implying* that it can deliver 360 watts into 4 ohms and 90 W into 16 ohms.
Now...the amp is capable of all three impedances because of its transformer taps. Thats how you match the cabs to the amp...the cab and amp impedances should match. So should the ratings. So if you plug in a 200W, 4 ohm cab into a 180W amp @ 8 ohms (although still using the 4 ohm tap) expect some fireworks because the amp at full crank will spit out 360 watts into 4 ohms.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 01:05:54 AM
Quote from: BAMF
Eto na lang.
P=I(squared)R.
If you divide R by 2, the 2 gets transposed and you get 2P. You double the power if you halve the resistance. Similarly, if you multiply R by 2, the 2 gets transposed and you get P/2. Thus showing mathematically that if you double the resistance, you halve the power.
BAMF
Dude sorry but that is a wrong assumption.
Say you have a 4x12 cab with equal impedances, and the total impedance of the cab is 8 ohms. If the amp wants to see 8 ohms, that means, whatever power is fed to the cab is shared by each of the drivers EQUALLY. Hence, assume that whatever power is fed, say P watts, the four drivers are sharing 1/4 of the voltage across the amplifier. Meaning, V/4 ang voltage across EACH driver. Although across the amplifier (say you get your voltmeter and get the open circuit voltage across the speaker cable terminals) you get V volts still. Now, all in all, the power dissipated by the cab FOR A PERFECT IMPEDANCE MATCH is V^2/R. The power ACROSS EACH DRIVER is (V/4)^2/R.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 01:06:25 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Correction. If you double the required impedance of an amp, the power you get across is 9/16 that of the power when using the required impedance. The rest of the 7/16 is absorbed by the amp itself. My inference is that this 7/16 of power shall be disspipated by the output transformer's primary, output tubes, or caps. I just thought of the theory of maximum power transfer.
Anyway, yes I think a tone challenge would be nice, provided that everyone goes home happy, with undamaged gear.
So parang Blue Voodoo vs. Herbert + raon cab? I think oas said something about plugging to a raon cab...
Teka dude. You get maximum power transfer if you have matched impedance. If you double the impedance on the load side, you must also double the impedance on the source side (e.g. change taps). If you double the output impedance without changing the source impedance...something WILL have to absorb the energy blasted back as standing waves. In this case, it will be the output tubes. There will be some losses...eddy current and hysteresis losses, but those are integral to the tranny and will happen regardless of a match/mismatch.
Ahh...what the heck. Lessee na lang. Ako I'm quite sure that 400W total speaker rating at 16 ohms is very safe. Anyone else's risks are their own, and is integral to their challenge to each other. Bok Bok !
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 01:08:53 AM
Quote from: eders19
while i may not be someone who posts a lot of stuff in the forums, i do read them a lot so as to acquire more knowledge that can be useful to me. i've been following this thread for some time, and to be honest, it's not very informative anymore. parang payabangan lang. sana pag-usapan nalang ulit yung mga babae or probably something else.
in synthesis: stop proving your point because it's pointless.
seryoso di na siya nakakatuwa, nakakapagod lang.
Dude, everything should be aimed at discussion. I'm no EE expert to vouch for everything I mention but sometimes some conflicts can yield knowledge gain. Kung nakakapagod, siguro dahil mahaba na masyado ang thread.
And kung babae ang usapan, maybe you wanna post some pics for us? :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 01:12:05 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Eto na lang.
P=I(squared)R.
If you divide R by 2, the 2 gets transposed and you get 2P. You double the power if you halve the resistance. Similarly, if you multiply R by 2, the 2 gets transposed and you get P/2. Thus showing mathematically that if you double the resistance, you halve the power.
BAMF
Dude sorry but that is a wrong assumption.
Say you have a 4x12 cab with equal impedances, and the total impedance of the cab is 8 ohms. If the amp wants to see 8 ohms, that means, whatever power is fed to the cab is shared by each of the drivers EQUALLY. Hence, assume that whatever power is fed, say P watts, the four drivers are sharing 1/4 of the voltage across the amplifier. Meaning, V/4 ang voltage across EACH driver. Although across the amplifier (say you get your voltmeter and get the open circuit voltage across the speaker cable terminals) you get V volts still. Now, all in all, the power dissipated by the cab FOR A PERFECT IMPEDANCE MATCH is V^2/R. The power ACROSS EACH DRIVER is (V/4)^2/R.
Actually, you're correct, and I'm correct, but we seem to be referring to different things. I was'nt even thinking of a 4X12 cab when I put that out, just a monolithic "load" as seen by the amp. But I understand what you said. We're just hammering on different nails tho.
Buti pa nga babae na lang ang pag-usapan natin. Let's let Lito Bote decide (a mutually respected character by both parties) if 2 X 200 Watt Crown Instrument drivers, wired in series and into the 16 ohm tap, are safe for this stunt. Fini.
Now where were we ? Rica Parralejo ?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 01:14:46 AM
Quote from: BAMF
Isa pa...just to make sure I hit the nail on the head :D .
Properly designed amps *should* be able to deliver their rated power at all impedances its designed to operate on.
Actually, if an amp has 3 taps, 4 ohms, 8 ohms and 16 ohms and the spec sheets only say 180W @ 8 ohms, it is *implying* that it can deliver 360 watts into 4 ohms and 90 W into 16 ohms.
Now...the amp is capable of all three impedances because of its transformer taps. Thats how you match the cabs to the amp...the cab and amp impedances should match. So should the ratings. So if you plug in a 200W, 4 ohm cab into a 180W amp @ 8 ohms (although still using the 4 ohm tap) expect some fireworks because the amp at full crank will spit out 360 watts into 4 ohms.
Man that works for solidstate, but many amp gurus (not gods) do not recommend impedance mismatches. First and foremost no one wants to put anyone's gear at risk. I remember one time when we gigged and I asked a friend to set up my Boogie DC-2 onstage. It was at Freedom bar. So everything was hooked to the mixer, unmiked. For some reason the tech plugged the line cable to my amps 8ohm speaker out, and NOT to the line-out of my amp! And I found out after the gig during packup!!!
You know what happened? The mixer's channel got busted. Good thing it wasn't my amp.
Anyway, the lesson is we wanna learn through knowledge and experience, but I hope no one does anything stupid to put our hard-earned gear at risk. Unless we have a go-signal from the experts, or manufacturers, we can't assume anything will turn out right.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 01:17:55 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Isa pa...just to make sure I hit the nail on the head :D .
Properly designed amps *should* be able to deliver their rated power at all impedances its designed to operate on.
Actually, if an amp has 3 taps, 4 ohms, 8 ohms and 16 ohms and the spec sheets only say 180W @ 8 ohms, it is *implying* that it can deliver 360 watts into 4 ohms and 90 W into 16 ohms.
Now...the amp is capable of all three impedances because of its transformer taps. Thats how you match the cabs to the amp...the cab and amp impedances should match. So should the ratings. So if you plug in a 200W, 4 ohm cab into a 180W amp @ 8 ohms (although still using the 4 ohm tap) expect some fireworks because the amp at full crank will spit out 360 watts into 4 ohms.
Man that works for solidstate, but many amp gurus (not gods) do not recommend impedance mismatches. First and foremost no one wants to put anyone's gear at risk. I remember one time when we gigged and I asked a friend to set up my Boogie DC-2 onstage. It was at Freedom bar. So everything was hooked to the mixer, unmiked. For some reason the tech plugged the line cable to my amps 8ohm speaker out, and NOT to the line-out of my amp! And I found out after the gig during packup!!!
You know what happened? The mixer's channel got busted. Good thing it wasn't my amp.
Anyway, the lesson is we wanna learn through knowledge and experience, but I hope no one does anything stupid to put our hard-earned gear at risk. Unless we have a go-signal from the experts, or manufacturers, we can't assume anything will turn out right.
Ngek ! I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I don't know if EE or ECE in his right mind will EVER recommend impedance mismatches. Not in audio, not in RF, not in telecoms, not in anything :D.
As for the tech who did what he did, serves him right for being too ignorant (that should learn him :D ) . That wasnt just an impedance mismatch. It was a case of too much energy getting into equipment that wasnt meant to handle it.
Hehehe skunky, we are saying the same things and yet seem to be disagreeing. When we meet perhaps in that "Tone Challenge" I'll show you what exactly I mean with the impedances :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 01:25:57 AM
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Isa pa...just to make sure I hit the nail on the head :D .
Properly designed amps *should* be able to deliver their rated power at all impedances its designed to operate on.
Actually, if an amp has 3 taps, 4 ohms, 8 ohms and 16 ohms and the spec sheets only say 180W @ 8 ohms, it is *implying* that it can deliver 360 watts into 4 ohms and 90 W into 16 ohms.
Now...the amp is capable of all three impedances because of its transformer taps. Thats how you match the cabs to the amp...the cab and amp impedances should match. So should the ratings. So if you plug in a 200W, 4 ohm cab into a 180W amp @ 8 ohms (although still using the 4 ohm tap) expect some fireworks because the amp at full crank will spit out 360 watts into 4 ohms.
Man that works for solidstate, but many amp gurus (not gods) do not recommend impedance mismatches. First and foremost no one wants to put anyone's gear at risk. I remember one time when we gigged and I asked a friend to set up my Boogie DC-2 onstage. It was at Freedom bar. So everything was hooked to the mixer, unmiked. For some reason the tech plugged the line cable to my amps 8ohm speaker out, and NOT to the line-out of my amp! And I found out after the gig during packup!!!
You know what happened? The mixer's channel got busted. Good thing it wasn't my amp.
Anyway, the lesson is we wanna learn through knowledge and experience, but I hope no one does anything stupid to put our hard-earned gear at risk. Unless we have a go-signal from the experts, or manufacturers, we can't assume anything will turn out right.
Ngek ! I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I don't know if EE or ECE in his right mind will EVER recommend impedance mismatches. Not in audio, not in RF, not in telecoms, not in anything :D.
As for the tech who did what he did, serves him right for being too ignorant (that should learn him :D ) . That wasnt just an impedance mismatch. It was a case of too much energy getting into equipment that wasnt meant to handle it.
Hehehe skunky, we are saying the same things and yet seem to be disagreeing. When we meet perhaps in that "Tone Challenge" I'll show you what exactly I mean with the impedances :D
Ok, so let us assume we are not supposed to argue on anything. But I hope I can witness the challenge for myself. Let us just wait for oas. For the meantime, where are the new boybastos pics? :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 01:28:42 AM
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Isa pa...just to make sure I hit the nail on the head :D .
Properly designed amps *should* be able to deliver their rated power at all impedances its designed to operate on.
Actually, if an amp has 3 taps, 4 ohms, 8 ohms and 16 ohms and the spec sheets only say 180W @ 8 ohms, it is *implying* that it can deliver 360 watts into 4 ohms and 90 W into 16 ohms.
Now...the amp is capable of all three impedances because of its transformer taps. Thats how you match the cabs to the amp...the cab and amp impedances should match. So should the ratings. So if you plug in a 200W, 4 ohm cab into a 180W amp @ 8 ohms (although still using the 4 ohm tap) expect some fireworks because the amp at full crank will spit out 360 watts into 4 ohms.
Man that works for solidstate, but many amp gurus (not gods) do not recommend impedance mismatches. First and foremost no one wants to put anyone's gear at risk. I remember one time when we gigged and I asked a friend to set up my Boogie DC-2 onstage. It was at Freedom bar. So everything was hooked to the mixer, unmiked. For some reason the tech plugged the line cable to my amps 8ohm speaker out, and NOT to the line-out of my amp! And I found out after the gig during packup!!!
You know what happened? The mixer's channel got busted. Good thing it wasn't my amp.
Anyway, the lesson is we wanna learn through knowledge and experience, but I hope no one does anything stupid to put our hard-earned gear at risk. Unless we have a go-signal from the experts, or manufacturers, we can't assume anything will turn out right.
Ngek ! I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I don't know if EE or ECE in his right mind will EVER recommend impedance mismatches. Not in audio, not in RF, not in telecoms, not in anything :D.
As for the tech who did what he did, serves him right for being too ignorant (that should learn him :D ) . That wasnt just an impedance mismatch. It was a case of too much energy getting into equipment that wasnt meant to handle it.
Hehehe skunky, we are saying the same things and yet seem to be disagreeing. When we meet perhaps in that "Tone Challenge" I'll show you what exactly I mean with the impedances :D
Yes, the Freedom bar incident was more than just impedance mismatch, but actually feeding raw power to the poor mixer channel's preamp. More than just a hot signal. However, I was worried about how that could have damaged my amp granting there was a mismatch (a huge one) maybe not just in terms of impedance but voltage levels as well.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: eders19 on April 04, 2006, 01:59:35 AM
True pero i wish people would do it in much more respectable manner (i think this issue has been brought up a couple of times). pwede naman diba? and i think this issue doesn't just fall with one guy but with others as well. siguro kasi nahawa lang talaga yung iba. kahit ako minsan, nahahawa din ako sa ganyang mentality lalo na kapag medyo sensitive yung topic.
oh no... medyo nawawala na ako sa train of thought ko!hahaha
pics? wala ako e! pero there was this website before, ang daming pics i'm trying to remember. ang maganda kasi sa website may mga videos din ako nakuha mula sa mga movies of various celebs like rica wherein they get it on and stuff!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 04, 2006, 07:00:41 AM
as a general rule, if you do want to "opt" for impedance mismatching in your cab - and some people i've met do for the sake of tone - bigger resistance ratings are the safest route to take because your are giving your cab enough headroom load to safely dissipate its speaker output load demand. naturally, you wouldn't plug a 100W rated am at 4 ohms into a 200w amp asking for a an 8ohm rating - thats just stupid.
Quote
the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
this answer by oas emphasizes the PHYSICAL limitation of the speaker cabinet NOT the electrical capacity of the amp, and was verified by Pete Diezel himself in saying, "be careful with old speakers." as long as the Marshall cab is rated at 4, 6 or 8 watts and can handle the RMS value (this is the only real value that matters), you can use one or two cabs to drive the Diezel's speaker load safely. the reason WHY Pete Diezel said to be careful with old speakers is because of the fact that the Diezel throws more air on the speakers than lower voltage rated amps that - if you crank it loud enough - might rip off the linings on the speakers. but even if this happens, a ripped speaker is NOT a shorted speaker if you stay under its vvoltage capacity rating.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: titser_marco on April 04, 2006, 08:09:49 AM
Sheet! Why did I ever enroll in Speech Communication? Should've shifted to ECE or EE.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: panterica on April 04, 2006, 08:58:11 AM
hehehehe this reminds me of my elementary days...
"wala ka sa lolo ko..." :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 04, 2006, 09:05:04 AM
I liked EE, very useful, particularly in music technology since a lot of this stuff is based around matching voltages, loads, and even Hz ratings (US vs. some parts of Japan which doesn't use 60Hz based AC power sources). It is just amazing that a lot of the gear we have come to know and love sound the way they do because of the parts they use. For instance, a lot of Neve based channel strips and boards sound the way they do because they use specific transformers in their signal pathway which, I might add, ar eheavy as hell and expensive as f...well, you get the point.
Point is, a Diezel cab CAN and WILL drive properly matched cabs - why wouldn't it? That is why the taps are there - to provide the proper output rating for a given cab. Anybody who has ever wound a transformer knows how to do this so I won't get into how the taps are done and calculated. Kung gusto mo makita kung paano to ginagawa, just ask a Don Bosco EM high school student, its part of their curriculum. Skunk, you were fortunate that the tech that plugged your amp head didn't fry your amp head by plugging the speaker out directly into the board. That would have been bad news for your output trannies. He doesn't deserve to be called a "tech," and the place should have fired him for not knowing better.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: dod on April 04, 2006, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: dod
Quote from: oasgomez
the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
That's strange. Impedance = 0 when the speakers short. Impedance = infinity when it becomes open or when there is no speaker. Right?
Question: How can the load become open when the speakers short?!? Shorted speakers is like connecting a wire between the positive and negative terminals of the amp's speaker output, right?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 04, 2006, 10:54:21 AM
Quote from: dod
Quote from: dod
Quote from: oasgomez
the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
That's strange. Impedance = 0 when the speakers short. Impedance = infinity when it becomes open or when there is no speaker. Right?
Question: How can the load become open when the speakers short?!? Shorted speakers is like connecting a wire between the positive and negative terminals of the amp's speaker output, right?
Answer : it doesn't - in the scenario of the amp/ speaker confirguration, open load would mean NO load which is the exact opposite asserted by Oas' suggestion of a person shorting out a speaker. Wrong definition. In a shorted voice coil, there IS a load...there just isn't ENOUGH of a load to safely dissipate the energy sent out by the amp head.
The ONLY way an open (NO) load woould occur in the scenario of the speaker is this: if the wires in the coil melted and got severed thus eliminating a continuous flow of electricity from the amp head. A short circuit would present itself if, and only if, the coils in the voice coil melted, formed a giant mass of metal and elminated the continuous coil materal that the amp speaker load needed to discharge. here, you are basically shorting the circuit out because the voltage from the speaker would flow from the amp head, flow into the mass and come right back into the head.
Trashed voice coil = No Load = trashed output tranny...UNLESS your amp has good fuses that will blow and cut continuity before it seeps back into your amp.
The voice coils in a speaker is essentially a shorted circuit EXCEPT that the amp circuit is not shorted out because the coil in the magent of the speaker has enough material to offer the amp head enough resistance to discharge the load of the speaker load requirement. The same premise works for resistors and capacitors - the amount of wire in resistor coils and specific area of plates inside capacitors work under similar ideas: both use the length of wire and area of plates as a means of storing electrical potential.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: dod on April 04, 2006, 11:22:30 AM
Quote
the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
Thanks! Okay, so the above statement does not make sense?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: dod
Quote
the speakers can short and wreck the Output transformer of the Diezel because it now becomes an open load. Its like playing thru an amp without a speaker load.
Thanks! Okay, so the above statement does not make sense?
Oo nga ano. Short na, open pa. Nuff said :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
I liked EE, very useful, particularly in music technology since a lot of this stuff is based around matching voltages, loads, and even Hz ratings (US vs. some parts of Japan which doesn't use 60Hz based AC power sources). It is just amazing that a lot of the gear we have come to know and love sound the way they do because of the parts they use. For instance, a lot of Neve based channel strips and boards sound the way they do because they use specific transformers in their signal pathway which, I might add, ar eheavy as hell and expensive as f...well, you get the point.
Point is, a Diezel cab CAN and WILL drive properly matched cabs - why wouldn't it? That is why the taps are there - to provide the proper output rating for a given cab. Anybody who has ever wound a transformer knows how to do this so I won't get into how the taps are done and calculated. Kung gusto mo makita kung paano to ginagawa, just ask a Don Bosco EM high school student, its part of their curriculum. Skunk, you were fortunate that the tech that plugged your amp head didn't fry your amp head by plugging the speaker out directly into the board. That would have been bad news for your output trannies. He doesn't deserve to be called a "tech," and the place should have fired him for not knowing better.
Yeah, the lin-tech plugged the line cable to the extension cab output. What a dumba$$. Such a person deserves to be fired, but thank God my amp was ok.
Anyway, just a thought. Say you blow an output transformer. Should you have it rewound or will you just buy a replacement?
I know a lot of folks who own vintage reissue amps (say a Vox AC30TB) and have the output transformer replaced by a vintage one, if not, specially wound to get that WOODEN sound. And mind you, the change is significant. Why oh why? A lot even say that if you own 10 different vintage Vox AC30s from the same era, they will all sound different.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 12:19:03 PM
Matagal ko na pangarap mag assemble ng guitar tube amp. When I was starting out, I thought "a tranny is a tranny". Hindi pala. So many variables, like the kind of iron core used, then these guys even have interleave windings, me interleave ratio pa ang lintek.
I'd say, it would be best to just buy the tranny from an authorized VOX dealer, if you're very particular about the sound. Pag pina-rewind mo yan, lalo na kung sa Raon bangketa, they will just wind it the traditional way, like ex primary first, then when that's all done, secondary naman. Very "power tranny" like.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 12:35:56 PM
Quote from: BAMF
Matagal ko na pangarap mag assemble ng guitar tube amp. When I was starting out, I thought "a tranny is a tranny". Hindi pala. So many variables, like the kind of iron core used, then these guys even have interleave windings, me interleave ratio pa ang lintek.
I'd say, it would be best to just buy the tranny from an authorized VOX dealer, if you're very particular about the sound. Pag pina-rewind mo yan, lalo na kung sa Raon bangketa, they will just wind it the traditional way, like ex primary first, then when that's all done, secondary naman. Very "power tranny" like.
Well the output trannies are easy, compared to my desire to have custom tube mic preamps. It pisses me that having custom mic preamp transformers is IMPOSSIBLE in this country. They use mu-metal and fine wires. Something to be found in Neve and other high quality mic preamps. "Iron in the signal path" they call it. Locally, wala pang nag-aasemble ng ganito.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 04, 2006, 12:40:14 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: BAMF
Matagal ko na pangarap mag assemble ng guitar tube amp. When I was starting out, I thought "a tranny is a tranny". Hindi pala. So many variables, like the kind of iron core used, then these guys even have interleave windings, me interleave ratio pa ang lintek.
I'd say, it would be best to just buy the tranny from an authorized VOX dealer, if you're very particular about the sound. Pag pina-rewind mo yan, lalo na kung sa Raon bangketa, they will just wind it the traditional way, like ex primary first, then when that's all done, secondary naman. Very "power tranny" like.
Well the output trannies are easy, compared to my desire to have custom tube mic preamps. It pisses me that having custom mic preamp transformers is IMPOSSIBLE in this country. They use mu-metal and fine wires. Something to be found in Neve and other high quality mic preamps. "Iron in the signal path" they call it. Locally, wala pang nag-aasemble ng ganito.
Hmm...hang around the forums at www.wiredstate.com . No promises, pero you might be pleasantly surprised lang. I was, and got plugged into info of many kinds. Like they were saying that it is quite possible to get high quality iron here, kaya lang sa Dau Pampanga pa. Malay mo. These guys are VERRRRYYYY discriminating pagdating sa tone and spend a lot just to get to their aural nirvana. Baka meron nang isa sa kanila who can do it. Walang mawawala, just post a question there and you'll get plugged to many experts in the field of hi-end DIY audio.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on April 04, 2006, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
FretBurner: “wood+glue is better than wood for cabinets. they're just too friggin heavy that's why you'd rather have wood, or if you really prefer the tone from wood (y'know, preference yada yada)”
Here is a post to answer the two wise guys above:” Bob Burt makes some very nice cabinets and I will not say a bad word about him, but Bob mostly uses Pine, and with Pine I would generally agree with his comment about wood vs. plywood, however, I would like to answer in a little more detail. Hardwoods obviously have their own inherent resonance frequencies and they change slightly from 1 pc to the next. So every cabinet will in fact sound different, as opposed to plywood that will remain much closer to each other. When you create a cabinet carefully selecting the hardwoods for it you are in fact tuning the cabinet a certain way and therefore either getting rid of unwanted frequencies or adding wanted ones. That will remain constant no matter what volume you are playing at, so for instance the 4x12 that is featured on my site is an amazing sound cabinet that has no standing resonance notes on the fretboard. I'm sure when you play most of the time there are few palm muted notes that will cause really annoying resonance sounds to come from your cabinet and it gets worse as you get louder. This 4x12 is totally clean in that respect, and when it is cranked if you told me it sounds like a plywood cabinet I would laugh at you. My point is that the materials by themselves are not what makes the cabinet sound better, the materials when combined with solid design and therefore a degree of tuning do. The other difference and this could be where Bob was coming from is that the louder things are the harder it is for the human ear to discern details, our ears have a threshold that once passed everything starts to sound the same volume. For example if you have ever been to large concert and sat really up close to the speakers, you'd notice how everything sounds overwhelming as where if you were back twenty rows it would sound much better but you just wouldn't see as well lol. I don't want to spend a ton of time on this, but hopefully you see what I am getting at.”
So, I am gonna spend money to try this guy out. If his product delivers, I will pound the hell out of both Pallas and Fretburner’s plywood cabinets. Thats the point of the quest for tone. You just try and try.
whether you like your solid wood over plywood was not my point. what i'm pointing out is that, acoustically, plywood is better. there's a reason why you put plywood on those acoustic rooms, theaters, and recording studios.
Quote
Fretburner: “bullsh!t. maybe you should buy that hartke piggy back 4x8's. let's see if your diezel can beat a blue voodoo.” --- I am ready to take on your Blue Voodoo with the Diezel Herbert even on a raon 1x8 cabinet. Just pay for the damage on the amp. I will tell you that the Herbert will sound better than your Blue Voodoo even on the raon 1x8 cabinet.
damaging your amp is not even the point. though the diezel seems to have damaged someone else's brain.
thing is, you are trying bullsh!t everyone here that the diezel do not choose a cab. every amp needs a good cab to sound good. people are not as stupid you know.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 04, 2006, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: abyssinianson
I liked EE, very useful, particularly in music technology since a lot of this stuff is based around matching voltages, loads, and even Hz ratings (US vs. some parts of Japan which doesn't use 60Hz based AC power sources). It is just amazing that a lot of the gear we have come to know and love sound the way they do because of the parts they use. For instance, a lot of Neve based channel strips and boards sound the way they do because they use specific transformers in their signal pathway which, I might add, ar eheavy as hell and expensive as f...well, you get the point.
Point is, a Diezel cab CAN and WILL drive properly matched cabs - why wouldn't it? That is why the taps are there - to provide the proper output rating for a given cab. Anybody who has ever wound a transformer knows how to do this so I won't get into how the taps are done and calculated. Kung gusto mo makita kung paano to ginagawa, just ask a Don Bosco EM high school student, its part of their curriculum. Skunk, you were fortunate that the tech that plugged your amp head didn't fry your amp head by plugging the speaker out directly into the board. That would have been bad news for your output trannies. He doesn't deserve to be called a "tech," and the place should have fired him for not knowing better.
Yeah, the lin-tech plugged the line cable to the extension cab output. What a dumba$$. Such a person deserves to be fired, but thank God my amp was ok.
Anyway, just a thought. Say you blow an output transformer. Should you have it rewound or will you just buy a replacement?
I know a lot of folks who own vintage reissue amps (say a Vox AC30TB) and have the output transformer replaced by a vintage one, if not, specially wound to get that WOODEN sound. And mind you, the change is significant. Why oh why? A lot even say that if you own 10 different vintage Vox AC30s from the same era, they will all sound different.
If you blow an output tranny, you could have it rewound and it would help to know the type of core wire the original manufacturer (guage/ type/ material) used to get close to the stock sound of your amp. Moreover, it would also help to know the exact number of turns of the core because, like old fender pups, they may have been underwound or overwound to give the resulting pickup a specific sound. But even with a rewound tranny, you would still have to deal with other variables such as the oxidation on the windings, core wire, blah blah blah, all working together to give you the sound you just lost. A lot of stuff goes into how an amp sounds which is why the variety in sound is pretty normal.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 04, 2006, 10:04:15 PM
Fretburner,
I am saying that you cannot be so sure that plywood will sound better for a guitar speaker cabinet. I am saying that a hardwood may sound better. So dont be too confident. That was my point.
My other point is that the Diezel Herbert will sound better than a Crate Blue Voodoo thru anything.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 10:14:48 PM
oas, now that Peter has spoken about the Greenies, when can we try it out? I know Exile has some Plexi Reissue heads, so it is possible that they have Greenback cabs as well.
I was surprised that he earns only $400 per amp. That's peanuts in Germany. Me thinks he's more of a "custom" amp builder. Does he really build the amps himself?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 04, 2006, 10:17:08 PM
For the benefit of those who are lazy to read through the whole thread, here is Peter Diezel's response to my e-mail...
This is a message from skunky_funk at Harmony Central User Forums ( http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/index.php ). The Harmony Central User Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
To email skunky_funk, you can use this online form: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/member.php?action=mailform&userid =8918
OR, by email: mailto:dodjiegarcia@yahoo.com
This is the message:
Hi Peter. This is Dodjie Garcia from Manila, Philippines. Remember I had a thread at Harmony-Central before regarding the Herbert? I was so glad that a good friend of mine purchased a Herbert about a week ago. I had the chance to try it for myself. Here is myself wanking with his baby...
Anyway, there is an ongoing thread in one of our local guitar forums. So I tried to condense some of the few issues regarding the amp's capabilities. Please answer each question as honsetlsy and straightforwardly as possible.
So here are the questions:
1. Can two 4x12 cabinets with Celestion Greenbacks withstand the Herbert's 180W power?
Yes they should, but be careful with old speakers.[/color]
2. Is the Clean channel's circuit derived from a Fender circuit?
No, it´s very different.[/color]
3. Is Channel 2 derived from a Marshall Plexi circuit?
No, it´s also very different[/color]
4. Was Channel 3 really designed to be a mid-gain channel, as opposed to ultra high gain as most were expecting?
Channel 3 is a high gain channel with prefered distortion on the midrange.[/color]
5. What is the difference of the Herbert from the VH4 and VH4S tonewise? What is your opinion on each model and how would you recommend each amp to different playing styles?
The Herbert sounds more raw than the VH4. The VH4 is more hifi. Herbert = modern rock, VH4 = classic rock.[/color]
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
7. Was the Herbert designed primarily to have consistent linearity in the power section, meaning that the sound does not change as the volume increases, which has some sort of hi-fi effect?
That´s right :-)[/color]
8. How do you think does the Herbert compete with a Bogner Ecstasy?
Completely different amps.[/color]
9. What are the advantages/disadvantages of using the matching cabinet of the Herbert? So far we have tried it only with two Orange 2x12s, one with G12T-75s and the other with V30's.
You don´t have to use a Diezel cab.[/color]
10. Do you think the Herbert can take down any production amp out there, including a Peavey JSX Joe Satriani sig amp?
Tastes are different and I never would say any bad word about my competitors.[/color]
11. Why do you think should we rather save $4100 for the Herbert than buy several different amps? What are the advantages of owning the Herbert over several amps?
You don´t have to, but if You believe that is worth the money so please buy it. You also have to know that I earn $ 400 on the amp. [/color] I hope I can get enlightened with your comments soon. Seriously, I am considering of owning one to replace all the amps I intend to buy.
Hope to have You as a customer soon :-))
Cheers! [/color]
Sincerely,
Dodjie
Sincerely,
Peter[/color][/size]
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 04, 2006, 11:34:22 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
oas, now that Peter has spoken about the Greenies, when can we try it out? I know Exile has some Plexi Reissue heads, so it is possible that they have Greenback cabs as well.
I was surprised that he earns only $400 per amp. That's peanuts in Germany. Me thinks he's more of a "custom" amp builder. Does he really build the amps himself?
skunk, as a custom amp builder who runs a pretty small and tight knit company, I would imagine that the $400 bucks he earns is just about right. Thing is, companies like Marshall and Fender may be able to purchase more specialized equipment that can produce more parts in less time, add onto that the ability to hire more people for higher throughput production - they are able to save quite a bit by selling more of their products. I am guessing that a bulk of Pete's amp pricing goes on to cover production material costs, export costs, personnel, and storage for the amps. At about 4,000 bucks a pop, I don't think these things are selling like hotcakes either because not a lot of people can afford them even if the Diezels are really good. I think, overall, Diezel cuts its margins pretty low.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: YJMCowboy on April 05, 2006, 02:52:31 AM
I'm not going to be technical but here are my impressions of the Diezel.
I tried it last saturday. About two hours. At slightly higher than practice level. Enough to get a clear and defined punchy tone but far from what it was capable of dishing out.
First I tried an ESP Kirk hammet model through it. Bare Knuckle pik ups, both humbuckers.
Clean channel had slight fender crunch, not the clean fender sound.
Channel 2, which I expected to be a marshall voiced creature was just that. It's a sound that reminds me of early 80's metal and Shrapnel shred. Using the esp I got this sort of tony macalpine sound from Maximum Security. I tried doing my scale runs and the guitar went with me, yun sound had a kind of machine-gun-like-tightness that made me comfortable playing runs all over the ESp neck. Playing fast was almost too easy. For a second I couldn't believe the sound coming out of the speakers. It was killer in an 80's way. I loved that channel! It was a tight high gain channel that didn't mush up. Heaven.
Switching to channel 3, mmmmm? at first I guess it was ok. High gain channel. Not as tight as the 2nd. I felt it was more wooly and distorted. Buzzy. I'm not a new metal player, but i think this channel is the modern metal channel. The one You could use for detuned super strats. For Korn stuff i imagine. You could still shred with it but you probably would sound more like Petrucci, if you could, but I ain't no petrucci. Reminds me of a mesa Boogie. Atleast the sound that I hear on records from players who use it. Just an impression really.
I think the 3rd channel was good, the second OUTSTANDING!
We switched guitars, this time a YJM signature from 95. This is a modernized copy of Yngwie's old red 56.
Whenever I do amp testing sessions I always try to get a YJM sound from the amp. It's what i call the killer strat sound. Very different from a killer sound you'd get from an Ibanez or another super start.
We tried the 2nd channel again. Dialed in the right amount of gain. I usually go for a Rising Force, vintage Yngwie sound first. Eto un malutong un overdrive and brittle but not overbearingly bright. Sweet parin like from the song Blackstar. The 2nd channel nailed it. I have to say though that what we tried to dial in was what my ears where hearing from the records. I have never heared a 73 50 watt marshall up close to know it that well, but I've been listening to Yngwie recordings, tapes, cds, all his albums, videos, live concerts and clinics for almost 20 years.
We also found a nastier Yngwie setting, eto un mas bago na tunog nya, like from the album War to End All wars. Almost abrasive but still killer.
What can i say, it's a great sounding amp. At practice level, it sounded good already.
Just to calibrate our ears we tried the Soldano right after. It was a different beast. I felt it was more of a sweet sounding amp. Not suited for shred style playing. I tried the same lines I did on the diezel and we both looked at each other and laughed. Nawala un killer sound. It was a fine amp no doubt, but it suits a different player I'm sure.
Lastly we tried the Bad Ass 100 watt 74 Marshall superlead. It's the kind of amp that doesn't hide you mistakes. Eto yun least cooperative of all the amps. You had to be really good to play it with confidence and be comfortable at the same time. I mean sure you can play the usual pentatonic licks on it, but not much more that would sound good on it. It's almost like the amp is telling you to play simple stupid. You are naked. It's not high gain, not bassy, no modern metal oomph, just crunchy, even with an OD pedal. But man it was brutally loud! Very Basic Ballsy sound that screamed Rock n' Roll! We tried getting more gain out of it but we had to crank it past 12 0' clock to get any more gain and at that level I knew the decors in the room would rattle like there was an earthquake. It's an amp that makes your ears bleed. Obviouly i couldn't play fast on it as well. It was more suited for classic rock I guess. But If I could crank it, had a 50 foot cable, alone in an auditorium, with more gain, perhaps i can indeed do runs and arpeggios on it. But nobody really plays a non master volume marshall FULLY cranked live in the Philippines. If anybody did, a guitarist would surley get fired, an audience would walk away, an engineer would commit harakiri, or a vocalist would walk out because of this monster's sheer volume.
But with a Diezel I think U can get that vintage marshall vibe in your bedroom or as i can imagine in a place like Music Museum.
Cheers Alex!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on April 05, 2006, 03:59:01 AM
Quote from: YJMCowboy
I'm not going to be technical but here are my impressions of the Diezel.
I tried it last saturday. About two hours. At slightly higher than practice level. Enough to get a clear and defined punchy tone but far from what it was capable of dishing out.
First I tried an ESP Kirk hammet model through it. Bare Knuckle pik ups, both humbuckers.
Clean channel had slight fender crunch, not the clean fender sound.
Channel 2, which I expected to be a marshall voiced creature was just that. It's a sound that reminds me of early 80's metal and Shrapnel shred. Using the esp I got this sort of tony macalpine sound from Maximum Security. I tried doing my scale runs and the guitar went with me, yun sound had a kind of machine-gun-like-tightness that made me comfortable playing runs all over the ESp neck. Playing fast was almost too easy. For a second I couldn't believe the sound coming out of the speakers. It was killer in an 80's way. I loved that channel! It was a tight high gain channel that didn't mush up. Heaven.
Switching to channel 3, mmmmm? at first I guess it was ok. High gain channel. Not as tight as the 2nd. I felt it was more wooly and distorted. Buzzy. I'm not a new metal player, but i think this channel is the modern metal channel. The one You could use for detuned super strats. For Korn stuff i imagine. You could still shred with it but you probably would sound more like Petrucci, if you could, but I ain't no petrucci. Reminds me of a mesa Boogie. Atleast the sound that I hear on records from players who use it. Just an impression really.
I think the 3rd channel was good, the second OUTSTANDING!
We switched guitars, this time a YJM signature from 95. This is a modernized copy of Yngwie's old red 56.
Whenever I do amp testing sessions I always try to get a YJM sound from the amp. It's what i call the killer strat sound. Very different from a killer sound you'd get from an Ibanez or another super start.
We tried the 2nd channel again. Dialed in the right amount of gain. I usually go for a Rising Force, vintage Yngwie sound first. Eto un malutong un overdrive and brittle but not overbearingly bright. Sweet parin like from the song Blackstar. The 2nd channel nailed it. I have to say though that what we tried to dial in was what my ears where hearing from the records. I have never heared a 73 50 watt marshall up close to know it that well, but I've been listening to Yngwie recordings, tapes, cds, all his albums, videos, live concerts and clinics for almost 20 years.
We also found a nastier Yngwie setting, eto un mas bago na tunog nya, like from the album War to End All wars. Almost abrasive but still killer.
What can i say, it's a great sounding amp. At practice level, it sounded good already.
Just to calibrate our ears we tried the Soldano right after. It was a different beast. I felt it was more of a sweet sounding amp. Not suited for shred style playing. I tried the same lines I did on the diezel and we both looked at each other and laughed. Nawala un killer sound. It was a fine amp no doubt, but it suits a different player I'm sure.
Lastly we tried the Bad Ass 100 watt 74 Marshall superlead. It's the kind of amp that doesn't hide you mistakes. Eto yun least cooperative of all the amps. You had to be really good to play it with confidence and be comfortable at the same time. I mean sure you can play the usual pentatonic licks on it, but not much more that would sound good on it. It's almost like the amp is telling you to play simple stupid. You are naked. It's not high gain, not bassy, no modern metal oomph, just crunchy, even with an OD pedal. But man it was brutally loud! Very Basic Ballsy sound that screamed Rock n' Roll! We tried getting more gain out of it but we had to crank it past 12 0' clock to get any more gain and at that level I knew the decors in the room would rattle like there was an earthquake. It's an amp that makes your ears bleed. Obviouly i couldn't play fast on it as well. It was more suited for classic rock I guess. But If I could crank it, had a 50 foot cable, alone in an auditorium, with more gain, perhaps i can indeed do runs and arpeggios on it. But nobody really plays a non master volume marshall FULLY cranked live in the Philippines. If anybody did, a guitarist would surley get fired, an audience would walk away, an engineer would commit harakiri, or a vocalist would walk out because of this monster's sheer volume.
But with a Diezel I think U can get that vintage marshall vibe in your bedroom or as i can imagine in a place like Music Museum.
Cheers Alex!
Thanks for the review, YJMCowboy. That was well written and straight to the point. A good point you stated out was the wattage of an amp. Unless your playing in an open football field or a stadium/arena, theres no way you can use the full 100 watts that an amp provides without busting your eardrums, your band members, or the first 5 rows of people listening to you. It's just not healthy plus not fun to listen too. All these squable as to my amp is 150 watts or my amp carries 600 watts, to me is mute. Play your amp at 50 watts enough for you to hear yourself up in the stage then let the sound tech guy take care of the miking of the amp for sound reinforcement. And that is just my humble opinion, hehe :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 05, 2006, 05:43:46 AM
Quote
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
there goes the argument that Diezels were made to replace other amps in the studio..[/quote]
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 05, 2006, 06:00:44 AM
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
there goes the argument that Diezels were made to replace other amps in the studio..
[/quote]
Jack in a Vox, it is funny that all along we have been relating the Diezel Herbert's sounds to Fender, Marshalls and Boogies, yet aparently, Pete said the Herbert's circuit design is so different. Of course you can't replace vintage amps with anything. I would always think a Bassman is a Bassman, a Vox is a Vox and a Triple Rectifier is a Triple Rectifier.
What I think about the Herbert though is that it is bedroom or studio friendly, unlike the older designs that you really have to crank up. In the studio, it would not be a very good idea to put a Plexi on 10 when the live room is only 20 square meters. You'll have sounds bouncing off the walls (even with trappings and dampening material) and at the same time, you can give your mics a hard time in close-miking scenarios. Nothing wrong with that, and it has been done in all AC/DC albums, but I just like the feeling of not driving the mics past their dynamic range.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: ericbaquiran on April 05, 2006, 07:06:17 AM
dumb question... does the $4100 already include shipping & customs charges to the Philippines? :?:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 05, 2006, 07:14:38 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: jack in a vox
Quote
6. Do you think the Herbert can replace an arsenal of vintage amplifiers such as a Fender Blackfaces, Marshall Plexis and Boogies?
No, You cannot replace a classic design.[/color]
there goes the argument that Diezels were made to replace other amps in the studio..
Jack in a Vox, it is funny that all along we have been relating the Diezel Herbert's sounds to Fender, Marshalls and Boogies, yet aparently, Pete said the Herbert's circuit design is so different. Of course you can't replace vintage amps with anything. I would always think a Bassman is a Bassman, a Vox is a Vox and a Triple Rectifier is a Triple Rectifier. [/quote]
+1 I realized this too after I posted about my observations on the clips... The Diezel, or any of those classic amps, is not better than the others, it's just different. Depende rin sa application at sa tastes. Kaso lang kasi, natural sa atin mag-compare, pero apples and oranges talaga ito e.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on April 05, 2006, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Fretburner,
I am saying that you cannot be so sure that plywood will sound better for a guitar speaker cabinet. I am saying that a hardwood may sound better. So dont be too confident. That was my point.
it's science.
you can say that hardwood would sound better than plywood, but you cannot deny the science behind wood+glue and acoustics.
Quote
My other point is that the Diezel Herbert will sound better than a Crate Blue Voodoo thru anything.
that's a pile of bullsh!t right there.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jun_gats on April 05, 2006, 12:53:38 PM
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 05, 2006, 01:46:05 PM
Quote from: fretburner
Quote from: oasgomez
Fretburner,
I am saying that you cannot be so sure that plywood will sound better for a guitar speaker cabinet. I am saying that a hardwood may sound better. So dont be too confident. That was my point.
it's science.
you can say that hardwood would sound better than plywood, but you cannot deny the science behind wood+glue and acoustics.
Quote
My other point is that the Diezel Herbert will sound better than a Crate Blue Voodoo thru anything.
that's a pile of bullsh!t right there.
Wait wait kapeng mainit! I think the argument of plywood vs. hardwood is a kin to a dead end road. Take this for example. A vintage Blackface Deluxe Reverb has a pine cab, while the reissue has plywood. A lot say that the vintage one sounds better because of the PTP connection, but what also contributes to the different resonant quality of the vintage is the hardwood pine cabinet. That is why some people at ampwares.com suggest you replace your current reissue with a new pine cabinet. But then, who cares if someone out there with a reissue w/ plywood cab is happy with his own? But then again, to A/B the two would be the best solution to find out what sounds better to the player.
Now, why not try the plywood vs. hardwood cab experiment? Oas, advise us when your cab arrives. Are up for the challenge to prove your Herbert sounds better through a local cab than a Blue Voodoo with a matching cab?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 05, 2006, 04:15:17 PM
Quote from: ericbaquiran
dumb question... does the $4100 already include shipping & customs charges to the Philippines? :?:
nope. that is the bottom line MFG price and you will need to add shipping as well as customs charges.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: guitarman_222 on April 05, 2006, 04:29:30 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
[Jack in a Vox, it is funny that all along we have been relating the Diezel Herbert's sounds to Fender, Marshalls and Boogies, yet aparently, Pete said the Herbert's circuit design is so different. Of course you can't replace vintage amps with anything. I would always think a Bassman is a Bassman, a Vox is a Vox and a Triple Rectifier is a Triple Rectifier.
+1 I realized this too after I posted about my observations on the clips... The Diezel, or any of those classic amps, is not better than the others, it's just different. Depende rin sa application at sa tastes. Kaso lang kasi, natural sa atin mag-compare, pero apples and oranges talaga ito e.[/quote]
Delta, you are absolutely right (at least I agree with yours and other guys comments). The Diezel does not replace any of the vintage amps. I have used/tried the Herbert, after reading this thread. Gave up on it after about two songs. It has a lot of bells and whistles but I will never replace a Bad Cat or a Bassman for one of those. One of my mates had a Herbert and sold it after 3 months. Another is "stuck" with one. He has owned it for just over a month and can't get rid of it - not because it is a bad amp, but because it is unique and appeals to a certain genre of players. I still think it is worth its price but only if you want one.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: YJMCowboy on April 07, 2006, 12:41:58 AM
Glad you liked my review Stratman. :)
Actually I used to dream of getting a 5o watt 74 marshall like YJM's. But a certain Andy Craven, mederator of a YJM fan club told me he used to have a similar amp but could not get a YJM tone in his apartment. It was so loud. Everytime he cranked it, it made him want to run for cover. So I gave up on that foolish dream. A non master volume amp is not as versatile as a master volume one. That's why they designed master volume amps so you could get distortion at a lower volume level.
A bit more about Marshalls. My limited experience with Marshalls is... Since getting Yngwie tone has always been my preference, I 've realized that you can get an "impression" of that tone from almost any marshall. I've had the chance to try the following, JCM 900( own one), 800, 30th anniversary, 74 superlead( perhaps if cranked ), Valvestates, MG series( have one ). And i've come to the conclusion that there is a "Marshall sound" in all of them but in varying degrees of sound quality. They all sound different, but you'd have to be deaf if you couldn't atleast hear a semblance between them all. With an MG15 for instance I hear it like a little JCM 800 in a suitcase. Not as fat or as loud as the real thing, perhaps sounds a lot thinner, but has a sonic semblance to a real JCM 800. For me the solid state marshalls are nothing but thinner sounding, less responsive versions of the all tube marshalls. Lacking in sound quality but similar in terms of basic sound.
Some asked if the Diezel could replace the Vintage stuff?
With my limited experience, only by comparing a 74 superlead with the Diezel, I think even the most expensive and best boutique amp can never replace a nice sounding vintage amp. The vintage amp is not as versatile or practical to use but it has a raw ballsy sound you just don't find in a new amp. In Alex's own words un superlead 'eto un pinaka "bastos" sa mga amps ko.' The deziel is a great sounding amp however, more refined and smooth sounding. It has a vintage vibe, but it's modern. The superlead sounds old. Hard to explain. But it's the same with guitars, a good sounding old guitar is very different from a spanking new one from the shelf store.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: BAMF on April 07, 2006, 07:29:47 PM
After reviewing a dozen or more schematics of guitar amps, I've noticed that all Marshalls share some of the same elements. Like a 480 pf cap across a 470k resistor which separates gain stages. The Marshall tone stack is peculiar to Marshall, you can tell it's a Marshall just by looking at the tone stack values. That's perhaps why all marshalls sound like a Marshall...they are all "voiced" the same with only variables being the actual gain elements used, speaker drivers, cabs etc. But the Marshall "blueprint" remains constant across the line.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: YJMCowboy on April 07, 2006, 10:02:28 PM
I have to agree with you on this one.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 08, 2006, 06:26:04 AM
oas, I have a question. What sounds more Marshall to you, your Rivera or your Herbert?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on April 08, 2006, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
oas, I have a question. What sounds more Marshall to you, your Rivera or your Herbert?
I know this question is not for me but I'd like to give my 2 cents, about this. I had the pleasure of owning a Rivera M100 in the past and had the pleasure of test running (not owning) the Diezel VH4 at a local store here. For me the Rivera sounds closer to a Marshall. Rivera has a good sound and tone. I sold mine because, at that time, it wasn't as versatile as I wanted it to be. I'm a 3 channel straight to the the head distorion kinda guy. I like using the full potential of the amp. Diezel is an amp that I wouldn't mind having in my arsenal. I just don't see any reason why I should have such a lavish gear when I'm not making money in music right now. Maybe later when I get better gigs then I'd get one of those nice German amps. For now, Triple Rectifryer will suit my needs, hehe. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 08, 2006, 05:00:33 PM
Quote from: stratman1
Quote from: skunkyfunk
oas, I have a question. What sounds more Marshall to you, your Rivera or your Herbert?
I know this question is not for me but I'd like to give my 2 cents, about this. I had the pleasure of owning a Rivera M100 in the past and had the pleasure of test running (not owning) the Diezel VH4 at a local store here. For me the Rivera sounds closer to a Marshall. Rivera has a good sound and tone. I sold mine because, at that time, it wasn't as versatile as I wanted it to be. I'm a 3 channel straight to the the head distorion kinda guy. I like using the full potential of the amp. Diezel is an amp that I wouldn't mind having in my arsenal. I just don't see any reason why I should have such a lavish gear when I'm not making money in music right now. Maybe later when I get better gigs then I'd get one of those nice German amps. For now, Triple Rectifryer will suit my needs, hehe. :lol:
Has anyone here compared Bogners to Marshalls?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 08, 2006, 07:47:35 PM
I've A/B'd a Bogner Uberschall to a JCM 2000. I liked the voicing of the Ueberschall a bit more but I like the sounds a bit better on a vintage Plexi than I do on the Ueberschall - especially when the Marshall is cranked.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 08, 2006, 08:03:55 PM
SkunkyFunk,
Which Marshall are we talking about here? In general, danger of assuming it to be true for all, marshalls to me sound more gnarly. Unless the name plate says its a marshall, I dont judge my amps or score them as to how close they are to a marshall. I own four Marshall Heads and even the four sound different. When I play guitar, the last thing on my mind is to assess how close I am to a marshall. I just plug in and dial to a tone setting that I like. So schematically, you can say this and that component is common but I dont think that is what you define as marshall sound. So if they all sound gnarly to me, I perceive that Jim & Co. decided to voice their amps a unique way. In conclusion, a Marshall sounds like a Marshall because Jim Marshall wanted it to sound that way.
Title: CLIPS of the Diezel!
Post by: deltaslim on April 09, 2006, 01:26:09 PM
Here's a celfon vidcam recording of the Diezel in action... I know a celcam is not exactly the best way to represent the tones so take it for what it's worth...
(This is Soul Benders last night at Magnet Cafe. Arie is using the Diezel and I was using a borrowed Royal - a P10k Japanese tube amp)
BB King medley
Statesboro Blues
Title: Re: CLIPS of the Diezel!
Post by: Phil on April 09, 2006, 02:47:32 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
Here's a celfon vidcam recording of the Diezel in action... I know a celcam is not exactly the best way to represent the tones so take it for what it's worth...
(This is Soul Benders last night at Magnet Cafe. Arie is using the Diezel and I was using a borrowed Royal - a P10k Japanese tube amp)
BB King medley
Statesboro Blues
bakit frame by frame ...naka DSL naman ako.....is there a setting I should do so I can see this clip properly?
Title: Re: CLIPS of the Diezel!
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 09, 2006, 02:59:03 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
Here's a celfon vidcam recording of the Diezel in action... I know a celcam is not exactly the best way to represent the tones so take it for what it's worth...
(This is Soul Benders last night at Magnet Cafe. Arie is using the Diezel and I was using a borrowed Royal - a P10k Japanese tube amp)
BB King medley
Statesboro Blues
Hey Delta, astig talaga kayo! Loved the sound ofyour goldtop. Arie also rocked. Didn't expect Lito to have a Clapton-esque voice.
Hope we had a time to chat but I was more stuck with watching the Herbert hehehe.
Title: Re: CLIPS of the Diezel!
Post by: deltaslim on April 09, 2006, 10:35:20 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: deltaslim
Here's a celfon vidcam recording of the Diezel in action... I know a celcam is not exactly the best way to represent the tones so take it for what it's worth...
(This is Soul Benders last night at Magnet Cafe. Arie is using the Diezel and I was using a borrowed Royal - a P10k Japanese tube amp)
BB King medley
Statesboro Blues
Hey Delta, astig talaga kayo! Loved the sound ofyour goldtop. Arie also rocked. Didn't expect Lito to have a Clapton-esque voice.
Hope we had a time to chat but I was more stuck with watching the Herbert hehehe.
skunyfunk - yea, bro. sayang nga. dami dumating na mga tone hebigats ;-) at the same tho, it all made sense to me nung inintroduce mo sarili mo sa akin. ikaw kasi yung nakita kong nag-aadvise dun sa mga players how to tweak the amp. punong abala sa tone, ika nga. and since alex was there too, we can now rest assured that si alex at ikaw ay hindi iisa! :-)
btw, aside from not being my cup of tea (ie, modern e), the poor recording gives an unflattering impression of the tone. nakatapat kasi yung celfon directly sa speakers. if you listen via the celcam itself, you can hear the clipping even more due to the output of the diezel amp/2x12 speakers. too much for the celfon. in any case, it sounded better live. :-)
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Ag3nt on April 09, 2006, 11:26:19 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Is this US$4100 amp worth the hype? Can this 180 watt monster take down the Peavey JSX in Audiophile paco? Is the 180 watt power section (6 EL 34s), which can be raised to 300 watts by using six 6550s, of this monster capable of projecting its bigness?
First Impressions: Its heavy at 75 .lbs. Has a long chassis which takes two people to carry. This is as long as the old SUNN heads. I don’t think I can gig with this thing. Tolex is black with stainless steel corners, I hope. Smells like Armor All. Chassis color is brushed aluminum grey. It doesn’t look like US$4100. Its pretty mundane with German functionality in mind. The labels are spray painted, not even embossed.
On the positive side, the controls are well laid out and clearly labeled. Pots are not packed and there are so many toggle switches to my amazement are all FETs!!! First time for me to see toggle like switches that FET on any guitar amp.
Day 1 Honeymoon: To summarize, nothing in the Philippines can stand up to what it can do – which is to have three distinct yet great sounding channels (actually four if you count the +/- switch on the 2nd channel) on one amp and yet be flexible. Each of the three channels will beat the majority of single channels and dual channel tube amps out here in terms of clarity, thickness, responsiveness, transparency and just plain good sounding overtones. There is no harshness at all. Walang sinabi ang Fender, Peavey or Marshall. This amp sounds good even at bedroom levels. Its is no joke. The power section is designed to create surround sound.
Things can still change and this amp still has to be tested in a live setting.
hindi ka naman mayabang nyan? masyado ka atang mahangin, madadala mo ba sa hukay yan?
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 09, 2006, 11:59:39 PM
Quote from: Ag3nt
Quote from: oasgomez
Is this US$4100 amp worth the hype? Can this 180 watt monster take down the Peavey JSX in Audiophile paco? Is the 180 watt power section (6 EL 34s), which can be raised to 300 watts by using six 6550s, of this monster capable of projecting its bigness?
First Impressions: Its heavy at 75 .lbs. Has a long chassis which takes two people to carry. This is as long as the old SUNN heads. I don’t think I can gig with this thing. Tolex is black with stainless steel corners, I hope. Smells like Armor All. Chassis color is brushed aluminum grey. It doesn’t look like US$4100. Its pretty mundane with German functionality in mind. The labels are spray painted, not even embossed.
On the positive side, the controls are well laid out and clearly labeled. Pots are not packed and there are so many toggle switches to my amazement are all FETs!!! First time for me to see toggle like switches that FET on any guitar amp.
Day 1 Honeymoon: To summarize, nothing in the Philippines can stand up to what it can do – which is to have three distinct yet great sounding channels (actually four if you count the +/- switch on the 2nd channel) on one amp and yet be flexible. Each of the three channels will beat the majority of single channels and dual channel tube amps out here in terms of clarity, thickness, responsiveness, transparency and just plain good sounding overtones. There is no harshness at all. Walang sinabi ang Fender, Peavey or Marshall. This amp sounds good even at bedroom levels. Its is no joke. The power section is designed to create surround sound.
Things can still change and this amp still has to be tested in a live setting.
hindi ka naman mayabang nyan? masyado ka atang mahangin, madadala mo ba sa hukay yan?
Anada victim. :D Dapat siguro magkaroon ng hate club si oas. :D :D :D
Title: PROOF that sound clips can be misleading
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 10, 2006, 01:51:19 AM
I downloaded this sound clip from HC a few months back, showcasing a Bogner Ecstasy 101B vs. a Diezel Herbert. According to Peter Diezel himself, they are two completely different amps. Hence, we cannot discount the fact that they may sound different from each other. Maybe in a live setting, they can be VERY different. However, sound clips can inaccurately capture the subtle differences of different gear, hence, I think that we should not rely on sound clips and user reviews alone.
Anyway, the person who performed in the clip is from the UK. His moniker at HC is "Big Hair". Here is his description of the track...
The clip is basically one of of my favourites - Queen - Tie your mother down.
The clip starts of with just the Bogner, both tracks left & right are the Bogner
1:05 - the Herbert kicks in on the left and then the right takes over so both left & right are Herbert at 1:08
solo (well not the actual one but me noodling about) - Bogner is on the left 1:54, Diezel at 2:08 on the right, back to Bogner at 2:16. then back to Diezel at 2:22! (The bogner is playing a quietriff underneath the solo in the middle)
The end is Bogner panned hard left, Diezel hard right.
*phew* - you'll get the idea when you listen to it.
I think that both amps sound great and they ciompliemnt each other nicely. There is no double tracking with this, they are single tracks with a bit of added reverb and some delay on the solos. I used a 57 on the GB and 609 on celestion blue.
Let me know what you think!!
Download the clip here (http://www.soundclick.com/util/downloadSong.cfm?ID=3766662&key=C688523F-B).
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 10, 2006, 07:00:46 AM
Ag3nt,
I stand by my Day 1 Honeymoon assessment. Herbert has a unique voicing with 3 great unique sounding channels that are a joy to play at ANY volume. Just to double check, I set up my VHT Ultra Lead and I only liked 1 channel on it -- the lead channel for metal but the Diezel just sounds great on all channels. Let me repeat: For what it brings to the table, no other 3 channel amp in Philippines has 3 unique and great sounding channels at any volume.
People who played thru the Diezel last Saturday Night at Magnet with a complete Band: Arie of Guitar Hospital, LC of Southern Grass, Paolo of Snake Charmer, and Mel Po. All of them loved or were amazed with the amp. Subukan mo humanap ng isang amp na makaka-impress sa mga tao na ito in a band setting for a straight 5 hours. These guys have different and diverse styles. P.S. Sayang, hindi nakaPLUG sa deltaslim. I would have loved to hear what his style would have sound like versus the P10,000 Royal.
Hindi issue dito ang hukay. Mayabang ba ako dahil wala kang Herbert? Kung ma PROVE ko ang sinasabi ko, mayabang pa ba ako? Ang issue dito ay ano ba talaga ang Herbert at kung sulit sa US$4100. Nakasubok ka na ba ng Herbert?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 10, 2006, 07:35:48 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
P.S. Sayang, hindi nakaPLUG sa deltaslim. I would have loved to hear what his style would have sound like versus the P10,000 Royal.
I can bet you one thing... for better or for worse, I will still sound like me. ;-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: tolits on April 10, 2006, 07:55:17 AM
Deltaslim
Would you like to look like me instead? :P
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 10, 2006, 08:18:06 AM
Quote from: tolits
Deltaslim
Would you like to look like me instead? :P
Err... brokeback na to! :-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: glassjaw_jc on April 10, 2006, 08:28:55 AM
erk! walang nagdala ng video cam?!?! sa may 6 ko pa kayo mapapanuod! :(
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 10, 2006, 08:38:56 AM
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
erk! walang nagdala ng video cam?!?! sa may 6 ko pa kayo mapapanuod! :(
wala e, celcam ko lang yan. (btw, der are more videos uploaded. check my sig)
sino kaya mahagilap na may vidcam for the may 6 gig sa gweilos? mas maganda sigurado ang setting na un for the herbert and other big amps. pero that also means di ko na naman madadala yung amp ko. layo kasi ng bar sa parking lot. di ako kagaya nila arie at alex, may mga taga-buhat. :-)
mag PODxt Live na lang kaya ako ;-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on April 10, 2006, 09:32:15 AM
Quote from: deltaslim
pero that also means di ko na naman madadala yung amp ko. layo kasi ng bar sa parking lot. di ako kagaya nila arie at alex, may mga taga-buhat. :-)
mag PODxt Live na lang kaya ako ;-)
malapit lang house ko dun! i'll carry your amp and pedal bag for you! i'll even help you set up. basta pwede ko iuwi yung amp and pedal bag (pedals included) pagkatapos. balik ko na lang sayo sa next jam after that. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 10, 2006, 12:12:00 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Ag3nt,
I stand by my Day 1 Honeymoon assessment. Herbert has a unique voicing with 3 great unique sounding channels that are a joy to play at ANY volume. Just to double check, I set up my VHT Ultra Lead and I only liked 1 channel on it -- the lead channel for metal but the Diezel just sounds great on all channels. Let me repeat: For what it brings to the table, no other 3 channel amp in Philippines has 3 unique and great sounding channels at any volume.
People who played thru the Diezel last Saturday Night at Magnet with a complete Band: Arie of Guitar Hospital, LC of Southern Grass, Paolo of Snake Charmer, and Mel Po. All of them loved or were amazed with the amp. Subukan mo humanap ng isang amp na makaka-impress sa mga tao na ito in a band setting for a straight 5 hours. These guys have different and diverse styles. P.S. Sayang, hindi nakaPLUG sa deltaslim. I would have loved to hear what his style would have sound like versus the P10,000 Royal.
Hindi issue dito ang hukay. Mayabang ba ako dahil wala kang Herbert? Kung ma PROVE ko ang sinasabi ko, mayabang pa ba ako? Ang issue dito ay ano ba talaga ang Herbert at kung sulit sa US$4100. Nakasubok ka na ba ng Herbert?
Oas, I just noticed a few things:
1) The clean channel turns out to have mega headroom. Zann of Snakecharmer was using a Vox Valvetone for his lead boosts, and surprisingly, it didn't sound as if he was adding mush to the preamp. 2) Channel 2 was not as Plexi as I thought in a live setting. It didn't have that upper midrange grit. LC was switching from + to - modes of channel 2 and while it has a dash of Plexi voicing, it wasn't as rough as a fully-cranked Plexi at all. 3) Mel Po used Channel 3 for the open jam. I think the gain was at minimum. It sounded fat but it was no Boogie Mark-sounding. Think Boogie + JCM800?
Overall I am impressed with channels 1 and 2, while I am still looking for that sweet spot of channel 3. But the real surprise was how consistent the Herbert sounded at all volumes. Pretty much like a hi-fi amp.
Ag3nt, I hope you don't mind, but if you get rich someday, if by then you would still be hooked on guitar, I am pretty sure you would want to try more expensive gear. It is just that when oas says something about amps hindi na niya madisconnect ang tag price. But then, it leads us to the question, "Why do you need to spend THAT much for an amp?"
Just like, "Why do I need to spend THAT much for a Jaguar (the car)?"
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: fretburner on April 10, 2006, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Wait wait kapeng mainit! I think the argument of plywood vs. hardwood is a kin to a dead end road. Take this for example. A vintage Blackface Deluxe Reverb has a pine cab, while the reissue has plywood. A lot say that the vintage one sounds better because of the PTP connection, but what also contributes to the different resonant quality of the vintage is the hardwood pine cabinet. That is why some people at ampwares.com suggest you replace your current reissue with a new pine cabinet. But then, who cares if someone out there with a reissue w/ plywood cab is happy with his own? But then again, to A/B the two would be the best solution to find out what sounds better to the player.
Now, why not try the plywood vs. hardwood cab experiment? Oas, advise us when your cab arrives. Are up for the challenge to prove your Herbert sounds better through a local cab than a Blue Voodoo with a matching cab?
skunk,
do you actually believe that a 1x8 from raon can sound better than a 4x12 crate loaded with celestions?
like is said, huge pile of bullsh!t.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 10, 2006, 07:29:38 PM
Deltaslim,
I think you will sound like a better sounding version of yourself with you on the Royal as the worse sounding version (pero maganda naman timpla mo sa Royal, so the only way to go is up) which is already above average. By the way, kami ni Arie ang nagbuhat ng Head at Cabinet.
Skunky Funk,
1) The picture above is an older Herbert. The newer Herberts have a different sound. So, take the clips with a grain of salt.
2) Why do I have to spend that much for a Herbert? Because I cannot get its unique sound with something cheaper. Kasi sulit.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 10, 2006, 08:27:55 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Deltaslim,
... the only way to go is up) which is already above average.
Ayus! You remind me of my high school teacher. She told me... "You're above average, but the only way to go is up. " Sabi ko, "Ma'm, talaga?! Akala ko di na ko tatangkad dahil ngayon pa lang matangkad na ko e!" :-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 10, 2006, 09:12:27 PM
Deltaslim,
I did not know that you had a sexual encounter with your teacher. Heh Heh :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 10, 2006, 09:12:48 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
Quote from: oasgomez
Ag3nt,
I stand by my Day 1 Honeymoon assessment. Herbert has a unique voicing with 3 great unique sounding channels that are a joy to play at ANY volume. Just to double check, I set up my VHT Ultra Lead and I only liked 1 channel on it -- the lead channel for metal but the Diezel just sounds great on all channels. Let me repeat: For what it brings to the table, no other 3 channel amp in Philippines has 3 unique and great sounding channels at any volume.
People who played thru the Diezel last Saturday Night at Magnet with a complete Band: Arie of Guitar Hospital, LC of Southern Grass, Paolo of Snake Charmer, and Mel Po. All of them loved or were amazed with the amp. Subukan mo humanap ng isang amp na makaka-impress sa mga tao na ito in a band setting for a straight 5 hours. These guys have different and diverse styles. P.S. Sayang, hindi nakaPLUG sa deltaslim. I would have loved to hear what his style would have sound like versus the P10,000 Royal.
Hindi issue dito ang hukay. Mayabang ba ako dahil wala kang Herbert? Kung ma PROVE ko ang sinasabi ko, mayabang pa ba ako? Ang issue dito ay ano ba talaga ang Herbert at kung sulit sa US$4100. Nakasubok ka na ba ng Herbert?
Oas, I just noticed a few things:
1) The clean channel turns out to have mega headroom. Zann of Snakecharmer was using a Vox Valvetone for his lead boosts, and surprisingly, it didn't sound as if he was adding mush to the preamp. 2) Channel 2 was not as Plexi as I thought in a live setting. It didn't have that upper midrange grit. LC was switching from + to - modes of channel 2 and while it has a dash of Plexi voicing, it wasn't as rough as a fully-cranked Plexi at all. 3) Mel Po used Channel 3 for the open jam. I think the gain was at minimum. It sounded fat but it was no Boogie Mark-sounding. Think Boogie + JCM800?
Overall I am impressed with channels 1 and 2, while I am still looking for that sweet spot of channel 3. But the real surprise was how consistent the Herbert sounded at all volumes. Pretty much like a hi-fi amp.
Ag3nt, I hope you don't mind, but if you get rich someday, if by then you would still be hooked on guitar, I am pretty sure you would want to try more expensive gear. It is just that when oas says something about amps hindi na niya madisconnect ang tag price. But then, it leads us to the question, "Why do you need to spend THAT much for an amp?"
Just like, "Why do I need to spend THAT much for a Jaguar (the car)?"
You don't have to spend that much on a Jaguar unless you want something pretty to grow tomatoes on. Jaguar's are complete crap, breaks down like there is no tomorrow like the new Volkswagens. What do you expect? Ford is building them. Stick with Benz, Lexus or BMW.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 10, 2006, 09:27:46 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
Deltaslim,
I did not know that you had a sexual encounter with your teacher. Heh Heh :D
Yes, if only I knew at the time that getting butt-spanked IS sex! :-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on April 10, 2006, 10:32:24 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: oasgomez
Deltaslim,
I did not know that you had a sexual encounter with your teacher. Heh Heh :D
Yes, if only I knew at the time that getting butt-spanked IS sex! :-)
What if your teacher was Camille Pratts?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 10, 2006, 11:12:27 PM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: oasgomez
Deltaslim,
I did not know that you had a sexual encounter with your teacher. Heh Heh :D
Yes, if only I knew at the time that getting butt-spanked IS sex! :-)
What if your teacher was Camille Pratts?
Then I'll be the teacher's pet na "sipsip kay ma'm" ;-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: tele-tubby on April 11, 2006, 02:25:21 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: oasgomez
Deltaslim,
I did not know that you had a sexual encounter with your teacher. Heh Heh :D
Yes, if only I knew at the time that getting butt-spanked IS sex! :-)
What if your teacher was Camille Pratts?
ako, i'd rather spend $4k to get Camille Pratts than get a Herbert hehe
the day after my 45-minute encounter with Herbert (aayyy, brokeback), i plugged my tele into my beloved Royal na nilalapastangan ni OAS... I must admit I kinda missed the tone I had the night before :cry: yeah Herbert is one sweet tone mofo 8) so i guess i'm not a Herbert virgin anymore hehe :?
but hope is not lost for the common man as I loved every minute of Delta's playing thru that Royal :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 11, 2006, 04:58:06 AM
Quote from: abyssinianson
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: oasgomez
Deltaslim,
I did not know that you had a sexual encounter with your teacher. Heh Heh :D
Yes, if only I knew at the time that getting butt-spanked IS sex! :-)
What if your teacher was Camille Pratts?
somebody post more photos of camille pratts!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: jack in a vox on April 11, 2006, 05:00:11 AM
wow.. i just realised it now.. you spent more on the herbert than i did on my audi :?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 11, 2006, 05:58:44 AM
Tele-tubby,
Nothing against your Royal. Still loved the sound of Deltaslim coming out of that but MAYBE he would have sounded better. He was throwing around a lot of mids but lacked dynamics but I believe that sound really complemented Arie's style. Besides, Deltaslim was using a red Fulldrive 2 I assume which really throws around a lot of mids and hum. The guy from southern grass sounded painfully sharp/piercing with some of his settings on that VG88 which actually is opposite of Deltaslim's sound to my ears. You partner also tended to throw around a lot of mids without definition on the notes. So, with the Herbert. Arie did not have enough volume on his rhythm. LC also lacked volume. You had an upfront mid sound and Mel Po just blasted his way thru the jam using the Herbert power section. In the end, everybody sounded different kasi iba iba ang timpla. So, everybody just enjoyed which was the most important thing.
By the way, there is a digicam version of one of the songs that the Souldbenders did. Arie is trying to upload and convert it.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 11, 2006, 08:41:25 AM
Quote from: oasgomez
Tele-tubby,
Nothing against your Royal. Still loved the sound of Deltaslim coming out of that but MAYBE he would have sounded better. He was throwing around a lot of mids but lacked dynamics but I believe that sound really complemented Arie's style. Besides, Deltaslim was using a red Fulldrive 2 I assume which really throws around a lot of mids and hum. The guy from southern grass sounded painfully sharp/piercing with some of his settings on that VG88 which actually is opposite of Deltaslim's sound to my ears. You partner also tended to throw around a lot of mids without definition on the notes. So, with the Herbert. Arie did not have enough volume on his rhythm. LC also lacked volume. You had an upfront mid sound and Mel Po just blasted his way thru the jam using the Herbert power section. In the end, everybody sounded different kasi iba iba ang timpla. So, everybody just enjoyed which was the most important thing.
By the way, there is a digicam version of one of the songs that the Souldbenders did. Arie is trying to upload and convert it.
Oh, easy lang ha... This is the part where people can agree to disagree na lang. He loves his amp (but he was still nice enuff to complement yours), and you love yours. Great -everybody happy! Except me, cuz I don't have dynamics :-(
Kulang pa ba sa volume si Arie nung gig? I really thought na-overpower ako most of the time.
Btw, the hum culprit is the P90s on my Thinline, exacerbated by the Boss compressor. When I use just the FD2 (which, btw, was set to only 9 o clock and wasn't on all the time), less ang hum.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vegetablejoe on April 11, 2006, 09:23:46 AM
Ano po ba ang ibig ninyo sabihin ng "dynamics?"... honest question ito ha.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on April 11, 2006, 11:29:04 AM
Quote from: deltaslim
Kulang pa ba sa volume si Arie nung gig? I really thought na-overpower ako most of the time.
arie was plenty loud from where i was dun sa bar sa back. slim sounded a bit compressed though, which i think people sometimes refer to as "lacking dynamics", but i thought it was mainly because he was playing a smaller amp. pero ok yung contrast nung styles nila.
i liked both sounds, btw.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on April 11, 2006, 11:37:23 AM
whoops. double post. makulit lang talaga ako.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on April 11, 2006, 11:38:26 AM
at isa pa.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on April 11, 2006, 11:38:44 AM
hmmmm.... i think i was trying to make a point with this quadruple post. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 11, 2006, 11:40:21 AM
oas, I think it is not a very good idea to poll guitarplayers alone with regard to the sound of the amps during the gig. Para kasing Royal vs. Herbert ang dating. (In your words, P10,000 Royal modded with Celestion Greenback vs. $4100 Diezel Herbert + 2x12 Orange cab with G-12T-75s.)
As I told you during the gig, ask the waiters if they find something different with the tone of the amps, and if they can hear the P200,000 difference between both amps. Furthermore, they got used to the crappy amps in Magnet. (If I ain't mistaken, they are a Fender Stage 112SE and a Marshall Valvestate.)
What I DID notice was that during Southern Grass' set, LC had more organic tone (as he was messing with less effects) while the other guy sounded processed. Maybe it was his Roland VG-88? The greenback gave the Royal some sort of early breakup IMO. It had more grit in the high mids though. The Herbert on the other hand sounded much smoother. If I played onstage I would demand the MIDI footswitch so I can mess with all the channels and use the V2 boost hehehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: tolits on April 11, 2006, 02:55:47 PM
Sir Jaime,
For me dynamics doesnt only affect the guitar playing but the overall aspect and collective response of the band. One must learn to listen, one must learn when to soften your attack and when to make it in your face. The important thing for me is that the rythm section must give way to the vocals and guitar riffs when needed. Hey, we should start a new thread.!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 11, 2006, 03:04:53 PM
Quote from: tolits
Sir Jaime,
For me dynamics doesnt only affect the guitar playing but the overall aspect and collective response of the band. One must learn to listen, one must learn when to soften your attack and when to make it in your face. The important thing for me is that the rythm section must give way to the vocals and guitar riffs when needed. Hey, we should start a new thread.!
Ser kayo ba yung kumakanta na naka-'75 Jazz bass?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: tolits on April 11, 2006, 03:18:11 PM
Skunkyfunk,
He he , 71 po yun!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: vegetablejoe on April 11, 2006, 04:18:29 PM
Quote from: tolits
Sir Jaime,
For me dynamics doesnt only affect the guitar playing but the overall aspect and collective response of the band. One must learn to listen, one must learn when to soften your attack and when to make it in your face. The important thing for me is that the rythm section must give way to the vocals and guitar riffs when needed. Hey, we should start a new thread.!
Tolits,
salamat sa explanation. Pero di ako papayag na Sir ang tawag mo sa akin. Kalbo lang ako, di pa ako matanda... :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on April 11, 2006, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: tolits
Skunkyfunk,
He he , 71 po yun!
My mistake. Para pala kayong si Clapton kumanta. Hehehe...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 11, 2006, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: skunkyfunk
... Para pala kayong si Clapton kumanta. Hehehe...
Naku palakpak tenga nyan si Lito... idol nyan si Clapton! Eh mas magaling pa sa akin mag-gitara yan e!
Pero tama si Lito, ang dynamics sa banda, very important, especially sa blues. It's one of the things that separate good bands vs. just about every other band in a live performance.
As for my guitar, I knew I was sacrificing some dynamics kasi naka-compressor ako most of the time and ung FD2 naka set sa Mosfet + compressed (vs. comp-cut) setting. About halfway through the set, I realized I didn't really need the CS2 that much. Besides it was too noisy. The Royal amp itself was very dynamic and un-compressed (lots of clean headroom too). Now, if I was playing through an amp w/ natural OD, I would never have used a comp or even the FD2 much. But since I was playing slide almost all throughout and needed sustain, I had to add a bit of compression to the amp w/ the CS2 and/or FD2.
In short, it was a trade-off: I normally like to play with a lot of dynamics but the need to use comp for more sustain w/ slide and add dirt to the clean amp's signal, forced me to have a more compressed tone than I would like.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on April 11, 2006, 07:38:42 PM
argh, sayang hindi ako nakanood ng gig nyo, sabi nga ni arie sakin na may gig daw kayo sa mag:net eh, eh nagkataon nasa baguio ako nung saturday, sayang narinig ko na sana yung "fabled" diezel na yan.
oas, sayang, sabi ni arie you live in (secret) daw, kapitbahay pala kita dati. i used to stay in cliff drive. we just moved early this year. kung dun pa ako nakatira pwede ko sana test-test yung amps mo, hehe. that is, if you'll allow me to, hehe.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on April 11, 2006, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: kulas
argh, sayang hindi ako nakanood ng gig nyo, sabi nga ni arie sakin na may gig daw kayo sa mag:net eh, eh nagkataon nasa baguio ako nung saturday, sayang narinig ko na sana yung "fabled" diezel na yan.
oas, sayang, sabi ni arie you live in (secret) daw, kapitbahay pala kita dati. i used to stay in cliff drive. we just moved early this year. kung dun pa ako nakatira pwede ko sana test-test yung amps mo, hehe. that is, if you'll allow me to, hehe.
cliff drive... blue ridge?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: oasgomez-is-banned on April 11, 2006, 09:32:50 PM
Deltaslim,
Ok naman tunog mo. Actually, you were the loudest during your set from the perception of the people watching in the middle right just before the bar. So, hindi ko alam sa ibang position sa bar. Sabi raw naman sa bar ang diezel naman ang mas dominant.
Dynamics -- Arie just had more range from soft to over the top. What it does prove that even at low volumes the Herbert can be soft and yet cut through when required. So, they functioned perfectly together: Tele, sometimes a TS9, cable and clean channel of the Herbert. Arie never switched to Channel 2 during the whole gig.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on April 11, 2006, 10:32:48 PM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: kulas
argh, sayang hindi ako nakanood ng gig nyo, sabi nga ni arie sakin na may gig daw kayo sa mag:net eh, eh nagkataon nasa baguio ako nung saturday, sayang narinig ko na sana yung "fabled" diezel na yan.
oas, sayang, sabi ni arie you live in (secret) daw, kapitbahay pala kita dati. i used to stay in cliff drive. we just moved early this year. kung dun pa ako nakatira pwede ko sana test-test yung amps mo, hehe. that is, if you'll allow me to, hehe.
cliff drive... blue ridge?
secret nga bro eh, hehehe. you know someone from there?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on April 11, 2006, 11:29:41 PM
Sir Delta, sayang yung mga clips sa YouTube mo at di maliwanag at choppy yung audio...pero sino ka don, yung naka LP/tele sa left, Tele sa right or bass?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: tele-tubby on April 12, 2006, 03:02:12 AM
hey no offense taken. i like the royal for what it can do... a 1x12 can only do so much. but the royal beat a lot of branded tube amps i've played thru lately... plus the tube reverb and tremolo circuits are nice bonuses :D but playing thru that herbert with the orange cab made me realize i want to invest in a 2x12, 18w all tube amp. a single 1x12 when driven, has an inherent harshness that is completely gone in a nice 2x12.
i really liked delta's slide tone that night. compressed oo, pero bagay sa slide yun. parang sumisigaw na tempered na ewan. astig! full of character.
pero delta dun sa goldtop mo, p90s with a drive pedal plus a comp pedal, your bound to sound like a swarm of bees sa hum!!! :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 12, 2006, 07:23:34 AM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Sir Delta, sayang yung mga clips sa YouTube mo at di maliwanag at choppy yung audio...pero sino ka don, yung naka LP/tele sa left, Tele sa right or bass?
sori ha... lowtech na nga yung celcam, amateur pa yung nag-video (mrs ko :-) ). ako yung nasa left.
yung choppy/distorted audio is due mostly to the celfon's input clipping bec of the volume of the amps/speakers, especially yung 2x12 cab. directly in front kasi nung nirecord ito e. mapapansin mo nababasag pag nagri-riff or pag malakas yung band.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 12, 2006, 07:32:16 AM
Quote from: tele-tubby
i really liked delta's slide tone that night. <snip> parang sumisigaw na tempered na ewan.
wow tnx - ang ganda nung description mo! yun talaga ang habol kong tone -- tipong gospel preacher shouting to his congregation! kung ako tatanunging ang tone reference ko talaga for slide are the old gospel singers from 30s to 50s.
Quote from: tele-tubby
pero delta dun sa goldtop mo, p90s with a drive pedal plus a comp pedal, your bound to sound like a swarm of bees sa hum!!! :D
we will find out sa apr 20 or may 6... malamang yung goldtop gamitin kong pang slide. that is, kung wala pa ako mahanap na dedicated slide gtr (pls help me find an LP, SG, or any odd gtr w/ HBs and high upper fret access, etc.). so far, di pa rin ako 100% satisfied dun sa slide tone ko w/ the thinline. there's something missing. tuloy ang "research" ;-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nicemusic on April 12, 2006, 11:40:48 AM
Quote from: vegetablejoe
Quote from: tolits
Sir Jaime,
For me dynamics doesnt only affect the guitar playing but the overall aspect and collective response of the band. One must learn to listen, one must learn when to soften your attack and when to make it in your face. The important thing for me is that the rythm section must give way to the vocals and guitar riffs when needed. Hey, we should start a new thread.!
Tolits,
salamat sa explanation. Pero di ako papayag na Sir ang tawag mo sa akin. Kalbo lang ako, di pa ako matanda... :wink:
ok lang yun Joe uso naman ang kalbo ngayon, at pag matanda na puede na magapply ng senior citizens card... may discount na sa mercury drug :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: PRSMan on April 12, 2006, 12:38:00 PM
Quote from: kulas
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: kulas
argh, sayang hindi ako nakanood ng gig nyo, sabi nga ni arie sakin na may gig daw kayo sa mag:net eh, eh nagkataon nasa baguio ako nung saturday, sayang narinig ko na sana yung "fabled" diezel na yan.
oas, sayang, sabi ni arie you live in (secret) daw, kapitbahay pala kita dati. i used to stay in cliff drive. we just moved early this year. kung dun pa ako nakatira pwede ko sana test-test yung amps mo, hehe. that is, if you'll allow me to, hehe.
cliff drive... blue ridge?
secret nga bro eh, hehehe. you know someone from there?
a bunch actually... where in cliff drive? sa may pataas?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Kulas on April 12, 2006, 01:33:16 PM
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: kulas
Quote from: PRSMan
Quote from: kulas
argh, sayang hindi ako nakanood ng gig nyo, sabi nga ni arie sakin na may gig daw kayo sa mag:net eh, eh nagkataon nasa baguio ako nung saturday, sayang narinig ko na sana yung "fabled" diezel na yan.
oas, sayang, sabi ni arie you live in (secret) daw, kapitbahay pala kita dati. i used to stay in cliff drive. we just moved early this year. kung dun pa ako nakatira pwede ko sana test-test yung amps mo, hehe. that is, if you'll allow me to, hehe.
cliff drive... blue ridge?
secret nga bro eh, hehehe. you know someone from there?
a bunch actually... where in cliff drive? sa may pataas?
yup, near the gate infront of labor hospital. sino sino kilala mo dun?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on April 13, 2006, 11:09:22 PM
hoy, kayong dalawa... tama na yang brokeback-an ninyo! :-). balik tayo topic...
tnx to our good friend (who happens to be an "amateur musicologist"!), veggiejoe, we've got some nice clear clips of the gig after all. here are a few soundclips i've managed to upload:
Need Your Love So Bad http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785820&q=hi
Statesboro Blues http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785641&q=hi
BB King medley http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785913&q=hi
I'm uploading the other tunes... check no lang ung soundclick link sa sig ko below.
One thing i realized while listening to these recordings: the Arie's Tele and the Diezel together reminds me of SRV's clean tone. that hollow kind of tone with dual dirty/clean sounds going on. sounds like SRV's Dumble, to my ears.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on May 02, 2006, 07:22:23 AM
bump...gonna listen to these clips later when i get home...hhehehe...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on May 02, 2006, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: deltaslim
hoy, kayong dalawa... tama na yang brokeback-an ninyo! :-). balik tayo topic...
tnx to our good friend (who happens to be an "amateur musicologist"!), veggiejoe, we've got some nice clear clips of the gig after all. here are a few soundclips i've managed to upload:
Need Your Love So Bad http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785820&q=hi
Statesboro Blues http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785641&q=hi
BB King medley http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785913&q=hi
I'm uploading the other tunes... check no lang ung soundclick link sa sig ko below.
One thing i realized while listening to these recordings: the Arie's Tele and the Diezel together reminds me of SRV's clean tone. that hollow kind of tone with dual dirty/clean sounds going on. sounds like SRV's Dumble, to my ears.
paren Joric....can you tell us which part is you and which part is Arie...00:00:00? kung pwede lang po. :wink:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on May 02, 2006, 08:21:33 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: deltaslim
hoy, kayong dalawa... tama na yang brokeback-an ninyo! :-). balik tayo topic...
tnx to our good friend (who happens to be an "amateur musicologist"!), veggiejoe, we've got some nice clear clips of the gig after all. here are a few soundclips i've managed to upload:
Need Your Love So Bad http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785820&q=hi
Statesboro Blues http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785641&q=hi
BB King medley http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785913&q=hi
I'm uploading the other tunes... check no lang ung soundclick link sa sig ko below.
One thing i realized while listening to these recordings: the Arie's Tele and the Diezel together reminds me of SRV's clean tone. that hollow kind of tone with dual dirty/clean sounds going on. sounds like SRV's Dumble, to my ears.
paren Joric....can you tell us which part is you and which part is Arie...00:00:00? kung pwede lang po. :wink:
kuya phil - i don't think that's necessary. i play most of the lead and fills w/ a warm, round, mid-voiced tone. arie is louder, brigther, cleaner, and more in your face. for reference, he's the one doing the lead sa Need Your Love So Bad, i'm playing background slide fills.
on some cuts above like BB King medley, lumubog yung sound ko nung umangat yung volume nung band. being in the middle of solo, dyahe to bend down and adjust my settings. yan ang hirap sa walang monitors, pwede ma mis-judge yung range ng volume ng band vis-a-vis yours.
here are a few more clips from that gig featuring the Diezel and the Royale:
Key to the Highway http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785714&q=hi
Hoochie Coochie Man http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3786129&q=hi
Rock Me Baby http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3785498&q=hi
Tore Down http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3786244&q=hi
The following clips have me playing fingerstyle w/ Tokai Goldtop w/ P90s. At this point, I realized I didn't need the compressor because the FD2 Mosfet had loads of sustain and compression by itself.
Rollin Man http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3786380&q=hi
Born Under A Bad Sign http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=3786302&q=hi
for the record, i thought these clips by veggiejoe (tnx uli kay vjoe) proved that the diezel sounds quite nice on record. a bit too bright at times for my taste but that's just me. the comparison i made to SRV's Dumble was a complement.
let me know what you guys think.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: polarized06 on May 02, 2006, 03:41:54 PM
passed by arie kanina to have my Rg set up and i saw the diezel amp evryones talking about.... :) nice buy oasgomez though i never tried it....dont have the guts to...anyways congrats!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on May 02, 2006, 05:47:34 PM
Delta... who was singing? Ganda ng boses ah!!
picking up na ba blues scene? I hope soooo para me gimik naman pag uwi.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on May 02, 2006, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Delta... who was singing? Ganda ng boses ah!!
picking up na ba blues scene? I hope soooo para me gimik naman pag uwi.
Arie sa Need your love so bad, Statesboro Blues
Lito sa Hoochie coochie man, BB King medley, Done somebody wrong, Key to the highway, Rock me baby, Rollin man
Me on Born under a bad sign
Galing talaga kumanta si Lito and Arie. Like I said in the other thread, pag bumuka na bibig nyang dalawang yan, di na importante ano gear na gamit.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: sonnyrayvaughn on May 02, 2006, 08:52:01 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
polarized06,
Thanks for the complement. But dont be intimidated to try it out. I really left it with Arie for a time so that you guys can try it out.
Guys! swerte nyo! samantalahin nyo na... i commend OAS for the generosity. :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Ag3nt on May 02, 2006, 09:23:09 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: sonnyrayvaughn
Delta... who was singing? Ganda ng boses ah!!
picking up na ba blues scene? I hope soooo para me gimik naman pag uwi.
Arie sa Need your love so bad, Statesboro Blues
Lito sa Hoochie coochie man, BB King medley, Done somebody wrong, Key to the highway, Rock me baby, Rollin man
Me on Born under a bad sign
Galing talaga kumanta si Lito and Arie. Like I said in the other thread, pag bumuka na bibig nyang dalawang yan, di na importante ano gear na gamit.
si oasyabang pag bumuka ang bibig hangin lang lumalabas eh, signal number 4, kahit anong gear na gamit tunog lata pa rin.
Quote
Thanks for the complement. But dont be intimidated to try it out. I really left it with Arie for a time so that you guys can try it out.
translation: i really left it with arie para lahat ng nagpapagawa sa kanya mainggit sa equipment ko.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: polarized06 on May 02, 2006, 09:44:06 PM
Quote from: oasgomez
polarized06,
Thanks for the complement. But dont be intimidated to try it out. I really left it with Arie for a time so that you guys can try it out.
when i get my guitar from arie ill surely check it out... since u gave me ur permission.... :) :twisted:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: CARABAO on May 02, 2006, 09:50:13 PM
Sir Ag3nt and Sir Alex, tama na. hehe. lalo lang kayo nagkakapikunan eh. wag na kayong magpansinan. hehe di ba? :) :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: CARABAO on May 02, 2006, 10:03:33 PM
Sir Joric: great tunes. i like ur tone, pero yun nga lang, may hum. but what the heck, ok lang yun.. bsta enjoy. i really like your playing sir.. favorite track: born under a bad sign. nice groove. kayo rin pala yung kumakanta? tama ba? hehehe. nakita ko sa youtube :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on May 03, 2006, 07:44:43 AM
Quote from: CARABAO
Sir Joric: great tunes. i like ur tone, pero yun nga lang, may hum. but what the heck, ok lang yun.. bsta enjoy. i really like your playing sir.. favorite track: born under a bad sign. nice groove. kayo rin pala yung kumakanta? tama ba? hehehe. nakita ko sa youtube :)
carabao - uy tnx! ako nga kumanta dun sa born under a bad sign. actually dati ako kumakanta nung lahat ng blues namin kaso pakinggan mo naman ang boses nila arie at lito... dapat lang talaga na sila kumanta. nung nakabisado na nila lyrics, tinurn-over ko na. they've made it their own and they really shine.
yeah, basta enjoy. sa gig, you have to play through technical difficulties kung walang quick solution. kahit nga pangit tone mo at wala ka namang magawa, kailangan concentrate ka sa music making and connecting w/ the audience.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 11, 2006, 10:39:44 PM
FOR THE KIND OF MUSIC I PLAY AND THE TYPE OF TONE I PREFER, I like my Diezel Herbert on a diezel cab over my Mesa Dual Rec on a recto cab. It doesn't mean that I think the Mesa is an inferior sounding amp, I just prefer the bottom end tightness of Diezel. I also tried those B-52 AT-100's on its matching cabs and I thought it sounded pretty good (for what I prefer), and at a real decent price for under $700.
My point is, trust your instincts when getting an amp. If you like what you hear and you can afford it then go for it. Forums and ratings are here just to guide you, but it's all SUBJECTIVE matter and in a personal level! In the end, it all boils down to your own decision...
If we were to switch equipment and play, you would still sound like you and I would still sound like me.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: greasykid on May 11, 2006, 10:57:49 PM
Quote from: geetar_geek79
If we were to switch equipment and play, you would still sound like you and I would still sound like me.
With your amps, I'd rather sound like myself on YOUR gear than sound like myself on MY gear. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: CARABAO on May 11, 2006, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: greasykid
Quote from: geetar_geek79
If we were to switch equipment and play, you would still sound like you and I would still sound like me.
With your amps, I'd rather sound like myself on YOUR gear than sound like myself on MY gear. :lol:
ahhehehe! DITTO! :D great playing guys. well, sana lang nakita ko ng live :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: CARABAO on May 11, 2006, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
yeah, basta enjoy. sa gig, you have to play through technical difficulties kung walang quick solution. kahit nga pangit tone mo at wala ka namang magawa, kailangan concentrate ka sa music making and connecting w/ the audience.
+100000 kaya ako pag panget ang amps, nagwawala na lang ako. hahaha :) go go go! when's the next gig? i might drop by, depende rin sa sked ko :)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 11, 2006, 11:30:03 PM
Quote from: greasykid
Quote from: geetar_geek79
If we were to switch equipment and play, you would still sound like you and I would still sound like me.
With your amps, I'd rather sound like myself on YOUR gear than sound like myself on MY gear. :lol:
HAHAHA!!! I guess you're right. I would like to sound like myself on Petrucci's rig... :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on May 12, 2006, 02:18:49 AM
Sir Geetar_geek79, taga saan ka sa L.A.? K-town ba (90004)?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 12, 2006, 02:30:40 AM
Quote from: stratman1
Sir Geetar_geek79, taga saan ka sa L.A.? K-town ba (90004)?
Silver Lake, bosing. crossing ng commonwealth at clinton. malapit sa ChaChaCha sa melrose...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on May 12, 2006, 02:31:46 AM
Quote from: geetar_geek79
Quote from: stratman1
Sir Geetar_geek79, taga saan ka sa L.A.? K-town ba (90004)?
Silver Lake, bosing. crossing ng commonwealth at clinton. malapit sa ChaChaCha sa melrose...
you got PM sir
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 12, 2006, 02:33:42 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: geetar_geek79
Quote from: stratman1
Sir Geetar_geek79, taga saan ka sa L.A.? K-town ba (90004)?
Silver Lake, bosing. crossing ng commonwealth at clinton. malapit sa ChaChaCha sa melrose...
you got PM sir
pede akong email within this forum...
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on May 12, 2006, 02:37:38 AM
O, Phil, dagdag sa SoCal Boys, heheh. Geetar_geek70, you've got PM.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on May 12, 2006, 07:35:40 AM
Quote from: CARABAO
Quote from: deltaslim
yeah, basta enjoy. sa gig, you have to play through technical difficulties kung walang quick solution. kahit nga pangit tone mo at wala ka namang magawa, kailangan concentrate ka sa music making and connecting w/ the audience.
+100000 kaya ako pag panget ang amps, nagwawala na lang ako. hahaha :) go go go! when's the next gig? i might drop by, depende rin sa sked ko :)
may 26 hard rock cafe (pero private function) june 1, blues night sa conspiracy july series of productions c/o snakecharmer (malamang sa gweilos n magnet uli)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Phil on May 12, 2006, 07:49:27 AM
Quote from: geetar_geek79
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: geetar_geek79
Quote from: stratman1
Sir Geetar_geek79, taga saan ka sa L.A.? K-town ba (90004)?
Silver Lake, bosing. crossing ng commonwealth at clinton. malapit sa ChaChaCha sa melrose...
you got PM sir
pede akong email within this forum...
you said "akong"...are you bisaya? I am one...from Cebu.
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 12, 2006, 11:50:03 AM
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: geetar_geek79
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: geetar_geek79
Quote from: stratman1
Sir Geetar_geek79, taga saan ka sa L.A.? K-town ba (90004)?
Silver Lake, bosing. crossing ng commonwealth at clinton. malapit sa ChaChaCha sa melrose...
you got PM sir
pede akong email within this forum...
you said "akong"...are you bisaya? I am one...from Cebu.
HEHEHE. Akala ko "ako" yung tagalog at "aku" yung bisaya therefore "akong" is tagalog at "akung" is bisaya? :?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: deltaslim on May 12, 2006, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: stratman1
O, Phil, dagdag sa SoCal Boys, heheh. Geetar_geek70, you've got PM.
mukhang nagplaplano na ng hazing itong socal mafia... ;-)
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on May 12, 2006, 05:44:29 PM
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: stratman1
O, Phil, dagdag sa SoCal Boys, heheh. Geetar_geek70, you've got PM.
mukhang nagplaplano na ng hazing itong socal mafia... ;-)
big poppa phil is gunna give 'im a good whoopin'. :D
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 12, 2006, 11:29:00 PM
Quote from: nathanmanansala
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: stratman1
O, Phil, dagdag sa SoCal Boys, heheh. Geetar_geek70, you've got PM.
mukhang nagplaplano na ng hazing itong socal mafia... ;-)
big poppa phil is gunna give 'im a good whoopin'. :D
uh oh... :(
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: markflo on May 13, 2006, 12:26:53 AM
jamming na!!! wooohooo!!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on May 13, 2006, 01:33:03 AM
Tara geetar_geek79. Sama na sa SoCal jam eb. Let's have fun!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 13, 2006, 01:48:41 AM
Quote from: stratman1
Tara geetar_geek79. Sama na sa SoCal jam eb. Let's have fun!
Sige...! Pero ano yung 'eb'? Bago lang ako dito so di ko alam... Favor din, tanong kayo sa mga friend nyo kung sino gusto bumili ng Recto stack saka Midi Matrix... kailangan ko ng pangbayad sa Diezel! hahaha! If I can't sell them, keep ko na lang parehong amp. Killer!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: stratman1 on May 13, 2006, 01:52:52 AM
EB = Extra Baduy!!! Haha!!! Jowk lang. Eye Ball. Forum lingo yata yon, eh. Hindi rin ako updated sa mga abbre nila dito pero sakay nalang, hehe.
Tanong ako kung merong interesado. Magkano? Kailangan bang complete buy o pedeng pieces lang?
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 13, 2006, 02:03:05 AM
Quote from: stratman1
EB = Extra Baduy!!! Haha!!! Jowk lang. Eye Ball. Forum lingo yata yon, eh. Hindi rin ako updated sa mga abbre nila dito pero sakay nalang, hehe.
Tanong ako kung merong interesado. Magkano? Kailangan bang complete buy o pedeng pieces lang?
Pwedeng pieces syempre...
These are all "As New Condition": head only $1300 cab only $700 (I have two)
half stack $1900 ($100 less if not separate) full stack $2500 ($200 less if not separate)
Salamat!
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: geetar_geek79 on May 17, 2006, 01:39:02 PM
Oas, minsan annoying yung LED's, no? especially pag nag-ti-tweak... masyadong maliwanag. ako pa naman parang gamo-gamo, alam ko nang maliwanag eh, lalo ko pang tiniti tigan. :lol:
Title: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: meashuggahr on May 17, 2006, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: geetar_geek79
FOR THE KIND OF MUSIC I PLAY AND THE TYPE OF TONE I PREFER, I like my Diezel Herbert on a diezel cab over my Mesa Dual Rec on a recto cab. It doesn't mean that I think the Mesa is an inferior sounding amp, I just prefer the bottom end tightness of Diezel. I also tried those B-52 AT-100's on its matching cabs and I thought it sounded pretty good (for what I prefer), and at a real decent price for under $700.
My point is, trust your instincts when getting an amp. If you like what you hear and you can afford it then go for it. Forums and ratings are here just to guide you, but it's all SUBJECTIVE matter and in a personal level! In the end, it all boils down to your own decision...
If we were to switch equipment and play, you would still sound like you and I would still sound like me.
WOW! mukhang maganda tugtugan nyo sir! :shock: :D
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 02, 2007, 11:26:45 AM
REMINISCING... HAHAHAHAHAHA :-D
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 02, 2007, 11:34:54 AM
:lol:
see? i always said it would be a bad idea to ban him.
:lol:
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Poundcake on March 02, 2007, 11:54:18 AM
namimiss mo na ba sya, pareng Dodjie? hehehe :evil:
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 02, 2007, 02:16:48 PM
^ Actually I just realized natalo ng scalarizer thread ang thread na ito!
Miss na miss ko ang kanyang man boobs hwehehehehe... :-D :-D :-D
PS Mukhang wala na tayong makikitang thread na kagaya nito...
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: wutuwutu on March 02, 2007, 02:22:23 PM
juz wonderin...
sabi ni oasgomez na u have to pay bucks in order to get the best tone in the world
that means...
some people may belong to "tone suckers" pag la silang pera pambili ng "mabibigating" amps...hehehe peace... :lol:
pero good thing me oasgomez type of persons... heheheh
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 02, 2007, 02:26:41 PM
sabi ni oasgomez na u have to pay bucks in order to get the best tone in the world
that means...
some people may belong to "tone suckers" pag la silang pera pambili ng "mabibigating" amps...hehehe peace... :lol:
pero good thing me oasgomez type of persons... heheheh
Dude, I don't think that's the point. The amount of money you have is just directly proportional to experience, and it is up to you if you want to spend on gear (both cheap or expensive) to have a better assessment of gear to get the tone you want.
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Letour on March 02, 2007, 03:19:15 PM
Why was this thread resurrected?
Yan tuloy, I can really see how objective content matured into condescending form.
Thanks to broadband, I was able to read ALL 44 pages of this thread (March to May 2006). This guy has a knack for pompous and disdainful texts.
Do we really need to live through this again?
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: toybitz on March 02, 2007, 03:24:36 PM
was wondering though....
Dodge, did Oas ever PM if you if he could afford a lipo from a Hollywood surgeon? :-D
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: skunkyfunk on March 02, 2007, 03:58:35 PM
namimiss mo na ba sya, pareng Dodjie? hehehe :evil:
Teka muna... Ikaw may kasalanan kung bakit siya na-ban eh. Kung hindi dahil sa Chaquicos 2 thread mo sana hindi siya na-ban hehehehe
aba.. di ako ang nag-type ng "finally someone can educate the masses on good tone" ah! di ko kasalanan yun! hehehe! pero yeah, natalo na ng scalarizer thread yung mga oas threads hehe :)
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: mahavishnu on March 02, 2007, 04:29:18 PM
Yan tuloy, I can really see how objective content matured into condescending form.
Thanks to broadband, I was able to read ALL 44 pages of this thread (March to May 2006). This guy has a knack for pompous and disdainful texts.
wala talaga akong planong mag register sa forum na to kasi masaya na ako sa yahoo groups ng philmusic. pero naikwento sa akin ng kaibigan ko yung tungkol kay sir oas. pinagpuyatan ko basahin ang whole thread na ito tsaka yung tungkol sa multieffects, 9 or 10 am kinabukasan natapos basahin, walang tulugan, better than watching late night movies sa HBO. :-D
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: abyssinianson on March 02, 2007, 11:52:54 PM
Yan tuloy, I can really see how objective content matured into condescending form.
Thanks to broadband, I was able to read ALL 44 pages of this thread (March to May 2006). This guy has a knack for pompous and disdainful texts.
wala talaga akong planong mag register sa forum na to kasi masaya na ako sa yahoo groups ng philmusic. pero naikwento sa akin ng kaibigan ko yung tungkol kay sir oas. pinagpuyatan ko basahin ang whole thread na ito tsaka yung tungkol sa multieffects, 9 or 10 am kinabukasan natapos basahin, walang tulugan, better than watching late night movies sa HBO. :-D
whatever works for you. I learn a lot from this forum and there are a few guys on here that like the same type of effects, and guitars that I like or use so its all good for me.
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: nathanmanansala on March 03, 2007, 01:54:03 AM
sabi ni oasgomez na u have to pay bucks in order to get the best tone in the world
that means...
some people may belong to "tone suckers" pag la silang pera pambili ng "mabibigating" amps...hehehe peace... :lol:
pero good thing me oasgomez type of persons... heheheh
Dude, I don't think that's the point. The amount of money you have is just directly proportional to experience, and it is up to you if you want to spend on gear (both cheap or expensive) to have a better assessment of gear to get the tone you want.
exactly, that's also my point... im juz tryin to interpret oasgomez's mind..hehehehe
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: changedmynametojimi on March 03, 2007, 10:26:37 AM
kala ko nagbago lng username, un pala palatandaan iyon na banned n iyong user?? :?
Title: Re: First Ever Diezel Herbert in the Philippines
Post by: Lahed92801 on May 28, 2007, 07:01:27 PM