The SOUND SYSTEM RANT thread

[abyssinianson]

What i "mean" to say Mark is that most soundsystems "concentrate" on a big bass because you "feel" that but donīt realise that what is important for a band is the more "hearable" frequenses.
If you look in a "pimp my ride car" the "boombox" is 10 times bigger then the midhigh speaker usually because they like to let you hear the bass because itīt the most impressive sound when they show of their soundsystem. ( When you sit in the car also the bass is way to loud if you compare the bass with mid and high section)
Maybe they like that "sound", i donīt.......
To many times my hearing is spoiled by "soundsystems" with a way to loud bass if you compare with the mid high section, ask Marving what happened during his last Martin Nievera concert..............
Pump up the bass.................
 

the reason why most sound systems focus on bass to accentuate their music is because they don't know any better...bass heavy systems are less about actual music representation than they are about showing off. Truth be told, had the proper purpose been for the latter reason, any person designing a musical sound system for a car would be stupid to pump up the bass in lieu of fidelity and actually hearing the music. Hell, if you want bass to impress and don't care about the music, you might as well hook up a big amp to a set of bass tuned subs fed by a function generator pushing out a monotonous sub 38Hz drone. In my experience, the speakers that go into those competition sound system automobiles are usually not audiophile quality speakers and neither are their components...however, appealing to audiophiles is not the focus of those products; they appeal to a different crowd to suit a different purpose.

[marvinq]

..........To many times my hearing is spoiled by "soundsystems" with a way to loud bass if you compare with the mid high section, ask Marving what happened during his last Martin Nievera concert..............
Pump up the bass.................
 

well, that'd be marvinQ.

having been lucky enough to have had a lot of gigs where the sound system were among the country's best, it's very irritating to once in a while be not-so-lucky to have to work with sound system providers that aren't really sound system providers, if you know what i mean. they sound absurd pumping up bass frequencies into insane levels (perhaps sounding as absurd as the jeepney drivers who play loud music using only tweeters -- but they're easier to forgive -- they don't claim to be knowledgeable in sound systems...)

it's generally very difficult working with equipment that were not specifically designed for the purpose that you're using them. it's as stupid as that one music bar that used (many) genelecs as their speakers. those we're designed for studio use, and aren't expected to sound their best when used outside of their intended use.

[abyssinianson]

well, that'd be marvinQ.

having been lucky enough to have had a lot of gigs where the sound system were among the country's best, it's very irritating to once in a while be not-so-lucky to have to work with sound system providers that aren't really sound system providers, if you know what i mean. they sound absurd pumping up bass frequencies into insane levels (perhaps sounding as absurd as the jeepney drivers who play loud music using only tweeters -- but they're easier to forgive -- they don't claim to be knowledgeable in sound systems...)

it's generally very difficult working with equipment that were not specifically designed for the purpose that you're using them. it's as stupid as that one music bar that used (many) genelecs as their speakers. those we're designed for studio use, and aren't expected to sound their best when used outside of their intended use.

genelecs as house speakers? i have never seen that..lol the owner of the bar must have had a lot of money to burn or been one misinformed dolt.

[marvinq]

well, actually, both...

[VinceP]

sounds like the people manning your sound systems don't know their stuff. in my experience, the promoter and event organizers should have a good working knowledge of what a good PA system will require to make sure a live event goes without too many headaches. moreover, your qualms in the rant sound like concerns having to do with working on a budget. now, I don't know what deals you are getting but it would seem to me that you would - at least - know what you are getting when you are booking a live sound guy and set of PA equipment - otherwise, you wouldn't have those concerns which could be avoided had your promoter took care of you more as a performer.

granted, i've had my share of awful gigs - especially DJ gigs - where the monitors didn't work, there were no monitors, the booth smelled like piss and puke, there were drunk people looking to pick a fight...etc...etc...

It's really sad but it's a fact.  I'm not saying all, but a good number of live sound guys still need some more info and education regarding their own gear and how to use it properly.  I remember a consult job a few years back, the bar owner was complaining why their sound system sounded so bad (by the way, they did have very good gear to start with).  I got to talk to the "tech", apparently he was a security guard who knew how to solder stuff, hence he's the designated sound engineer.   

[tackielarla]

It's really sad but it's a fact.  I'm not saying all, but a good number of live sound guys still need some more info and education regarding their own gear and how to use it properly.  I remember a consult job a few years back, the bar owner was complaining why their sound system sounded so bad (by the way, they did have very good gear to start with).  I got to talk to the "tech", apparently he was a security guard who knew how to solder stuff, hence he's the designated sound engineer.   

Huwaaaat?

Lemme post my experience. Last sunday sa church (in one of Ayala's cinemas here in Cebu), the soundtech (owner) was having a hard time taking out the feedback. Doodle ng doodle sha sa EQ ng mixer and racks and eventually gave up and left me to fend for myself. Turns out I saw his sonic maximizer maxed out ang both knobs for both channels...

[superwup]

1 : Skunkyfunk thankīs for this threat, it will help musicians and soundsystem operators (owners) to cooperate and understand each other more i hope.

2 : Sorry Marvin for the mistake but it was only 6 am, i did not yet drink my coffee 

[KitC]

(perhaps sounding as absurd as the jeepney drivers who play loud music using only tweeters -- but they're easier to forgive -- they don't claim to be knowledgeable in sound systems...)

That depends if you just happen to seat in a position with those tweeters blasting straight into your ear. I'm guilty of shoving tissue into those tweeters just to give my ears a break - I'm sure the other passengers appreciated it. 

@superwup - Charley, I think you meant treat instead of threat. 

[marvinq]

@kitc, i think superwup meant 'thread'....

[KitC]

@kitc, i think superwup meant 'thread'....

In hindsight, I think you're right. Still playing with your 'toys' marvin?  Must be keeping you busy since you don't seem to have time for cheezmiz. 

[superwup]

Very difficult to type without mistakes............

Threat must be thread 

[abyssinianson]

In hindsight, I think you're right. Still playing with your 'toys' marvin?  Must be keeping you busy since you don't seem to have time for cheezmiz. 

ohhh....marv has new toys? what are they? congrats:)

[marvinq]

not much. just a fireface 800, which i still haven't used. i enjoyed playing with my xk2 (fresh from the babyface gig -- no, i didn't play, but they rented the hammond) patched through the motion sound (thanks for the help, vinci), another new snare drum. i still haven't gotten the korg zero8 i ordered from audiophile, but i've already been notified that it's already here.

haven't really had much time to play with those 'toys'. i've been chasing deadlines like i've always been doing... still a great problem to have...

[marvinq]

hey..... what cheezmiz? the only new thing i heard was the thing that happened in that jb event in baguio... something about vic mercado... but i still don't know what happened... if there's any other cheezmiz i've missed, well, feel free to pm me... haha.

[KitC]

PM sent! 

[superwup]

I can not pm you Marvinq, your pm box is full............. cheezmiz

    hheheheheheee

[skunkyfunk]

Oh, the mighty FLYING V EQ ON JEEPNEYS!     No offense but, should I mix optimized for THAT setup? 

[abyssinianson]

Oh, the mighty FLYING V EQ ON JEEPNEYS!     No offense but, should I mix optimized for THAT setup? 

no...wait, make that hell no...if a person doesn't know any better to properly adjust an EQ then that is their fault, not yours, as an engineer.

[marvinq]

I can not pm you Marvinq, your pm box is full............. cheezmiz

    hheheheheheee

ready... now it's all empty.

[superwup]

I can not pm you Marvinq, your pm box is full............. cheezmiz

    hheheheheheee

Joke lang 

[marvinq]

Oh, the mighty FLYING V EQ ON JEEPNEYS!     No offense but, should I mix optimized for THAT setup? 

well, yes, if that's the target format....

[abyssinianson]

not much. just a fireface 800, which i still haven't used. i enjoyed playing with my xk2 (fresh from the babyface gig -- no, i didn't play, but they rented the hammond) patched through the motion sound (thanks for the help, vinci), another new snare drum. i still haven't gotten the korg zero8 i ordered from audiophile, but i've already been notified that it's already here.

haven't really had much time to play with those 'toys'. i've been chasing deadlines like i've always been doing... still a great problem to have...

how is that fireface 800 working out? sound good?

[marvinq]

oh yes, you bet....

it's a very good upgrade from the e-mu 1820m, which already sounds good. and if i slave the 1820m's word clock to the one of fireface 800's, even the 1820m's sound is improved...

i was actually planning to get an octamic, but sweetwater didn't have one on stock, and so they offered the fireface to me at a very good price.

hey skunk, get one... you won't regret it... well, unless you're planning to get apogee converters, which of course, still sound better. even the fireface 400 is a great buy if only for the converters and the steadyclock.

[abyssinianson]

oh yes, you bet....

it's a very good upgrade from the e-mu 1820m, which already sounds good. and if i slave the 1820m's word clock to the one of fireface 800's, even the 1820m's sound is improved...

i was actually planning to get an octamic, but sweetwater didn't have one on stock, and so they offered the fireface to me at a very good price.

hey skunk, get one... you won't regret it... well, unless you're planning to get apogee converters, which of course, still sound better. even the fireface 400 is a great buy if only for the converters and the steadyclock.

I have the Rosetta 800 and they do make a difference given that the RME converters are already pretty darn good. I use the Multiface 2 through the Rosetta on my PC rig and it really opened up the sound to expose more detail and a tighter bass which I find extremely helpful for mixing jazz, acoustic and classical quartet type of material. I recently A/B'd the Rosetta, the RME against the converters of the Digi 003 Rack Factory and I have to say they did not surpass the Rosetta or the RME. I would go with any of the current RME products over the Digi 003 if you want to get a great package of converters and hardware in a single unit.

[skunkyfunk]

Marv, I have been looking into newer converters for a "mastering suite" I intend to build.  This one would be more hardware-based and the software is to be used mainly for de-amplifiying, noise-reduction and editing.  That means I need a very good peak-limiter and an aural exciter, plus some parametric EQ.  The A/D and D/A converters are the biggest investments in the chain...

The thing about converters... they get obsolete quite easily after a few years...