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Author Topic: Its depend upon the congregation.  (Read 4503 times)

Offline zhej

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Its depend upon the congregation.
« on: August 07, 2013, 11:14:43 PM »
So this is the story...

Gitarista ako sa isang CONGREGATION dito satin sa 'pinas. Member of the worship team. We sing and praise God together with my fellow churchmates at katulad ng ibang mga churches merong mga youth fellowships.

I usually listen to christian rock and other stuffs like that. To be honest, sometimes medyo may problema ako regarding suggestion of line-ups. This is within the youth ministry, there were always a particular song that's coming into my mind within that theme that were following through but sometimes pag naririnig na nila yung mga songs (Hillsong united, JesusCulture, Planetshakers etc.) they were like "ok sige, 'ill listen to this and try to connect with it" pero i ended up like listening to what they think about the song at hindi yun granted dahil sa musicality (ROCK) that's the term.

Laging dumarating sa time na iniisip nila yung congregation at maapreciate ng tenga ng mga attenders, yes i know. During our regular GAWAIN tha's true, pero kahit sa youth gatherings namin parang ang dating pa rin ay yung mga luma na alam nila at ayaw sumubok ng ibang bago (usually english) na dapat na pinapractice.

I mean there were times na iniisip ko, is this about the congregation dahil most of our attendies saming main church is medyo may edad na? I can be sensitive about the listener and i know laging pasok ang true meaning of WORSHIP. But i can't uderstand minsan, minsan nagagawa ko ng magcompare sa ibang churches at nagsisimulang mainggit sa kung pano nila mahandle yung mga gantong line-ups at kung gaano kaactive ang youth's nila within this kind of musicality. But sometimes iniisip ko na lang na were not yet enough mature for this, and by God's Grace we can resolve this. (or ako lang talaga may problema)

Kung ok lang hindi ko na lang sasabihin kung saan akong congregation kasali, for some reasons.

Godbless.


Let Go and Let GOD.

Offline crouchdash

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Re: It depends on the congregation.
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2013, 12:08:41 AM »
I think it's a common situation. I've experienced that too, sadly. In my opinion I think it does depend on the need of the people you are ministering to. Age is big factor, generational differences should be taken in consideration. For seasoned (old) folks; their preference is more on the tagalog songs which they understand or really prefer. For the youth; more on the upbeat english songs...which brings me to my next point, it also depends on your Music Ministry Head and your pastor; ideally they see the bigger picture and decide which would be acceptable/appreciated/would minister to the congregation.

We can always suggest song to learn  or to study, but then again suggestions can be okay'd or turned down, and you have to accept that.

What I do is talk to people of the same vibe that I have and try to discuss to him the song I have i mind; talking about the song either makes them curious and studies it or not.  I start teaching the song to one person and start with just jamming it then we teach it to another until the song ministers to them, then we get to have it in our line up.

Finally, it also depends on you... how good is your negotiation skills, your patience, your influence with other musicians.
(please note that we're not talking motives here. just saying :))
If you wanna kiss the sky, better learn how to kneel..."On your knees boy!"

Offline zhej

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Re: It depends on the congregation.
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2013, 12:26:23 AM »
I think it's a common situation. I've experienced that too, sadly. In my opinion I think it does depend on the need of the people you are ministering to. Age is big factor, generational differences should be taken in consideration. For seasoned (old) folks; their preference is more on the tagalog songs which they understand or really prefer. For the youth; more on the upbeat english songs...which brings me to my next point, it also depends on your Music Ministry Head and your pastor; ideally they see the bigger picture and decide which would be acceptable/appreciated/would minister to the congregation.

We can always suggest song to learn  or to study, but then again suggestions can be okay'd or turned down, and you have to accept that.

What I do is talk to people of the same vibe that I have and try to discuss to him the song I have i mind; talking about the song either makes them curious and studies it or not.  I start teaching the song to one person and start with just jamming it then we teach it to another until the song ministers to them, then we get to have it in our line up.

Finally, it also depends on you... how good is your negotiation skills, your patience, your influence with other musicians.
(please note that we're not talking motives here. just saying :))

Tnx bro. For me kasi, regarding sa pagpili ng lineup theres always a revelation before that particular song come up with our mind or during listening that song it will just pop-out and then there it is, we connect to a song and put ourselves to it. Regardless with what kind of music it is. Pinagpipray na the congregation will feel the same way as what you did.

I guess there were just people who focuses on that guitar's distortion than the wonderful lyrics inside of it.
Let Go and Let GOD.

Offline kdrexr

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2013, 12:32:55 AM »
We once have this problem in our congregation too before, kasi nasanay na sila sa slow and talagang gospel and worship songs. Luckily naman e yung mga members ng praise and worship team is open about all of these bands like what you have mentioned.

So we pursued and prayed na sana what we will play e magwowork talaga for the worship service. And the same problem that we have with yours, ay yung mga may edad na, and at first talagang kontra sila sa aming mga songs. Maingay daw, In which kasi we have mistakes naman na lahat halos ng kinanta namin bago.

Yet we resolved it kasi nagmeeting ang church about it. And ang ginawa namin unti unti naming siningit ang mga modern praise and worship songs with the old songs na nakasanayan na nila. Then by the empowerment of God and The Holy Spirit, nagugustuhan na ng buong congregation yung mga songs. Though pinipili talaga namin yung mga songs for the main worship service and sa youth naman is we freely decide.

About naman sa mga kateam mo, pagusapan nyo mabuti, iencourage mo sila nicely since it is for God parin naman and then try it muna na iplay nyo or ipractice nyo lang sa practice ninyo then pray for it na they will go for it, everything will be fine, anjan si Lord..

San ka ba na congregation bro? ok lang yan hehe, we are in the same body of Christ naman, and maybe maykacongregation ka dito na makakatulong sayo or sa concern mo, at sa buong team ninyo diba? God Bless you brother :D
Love God, Love People, Make History.

Offline muskratdoug

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2013, 05:37:25 PM »
There will always be a gap sa as to what appropeiate worship song between the youth, and elder members of the congregation. In order to bridge this gap is that the music minstry its self and .its members should realize iyng role nila at ano ba talaga ang trabaho nila. And the role ng music ministry is to "LEAD the congregation to worship" kung hindi sumabay at ng worship iyng congregation then it "FAiLED" as a music ministry. We always need to have this in our minds.

So how do we go about it?  First of all we need to realize that as a member of the music ministry we are formost "Servants" we are there to serve, not be "served" so our lineup of songs should be in relation to the theme or talk, the genre should have both for the senior member and also for the youth, iyng mga nasa gitna could relate to both. In this way you are able to serve all.

Ang kinalakihan kong genre eh heavy metal, pero sa tagal ko na ng seserbe sa music ministry halos lahat na ng genre natutunan ko na, maski ma pa rock, jazz ,opm or kundiman natutugtog ko sa church, kaya naman naka pag session ako sa ibat ibat communities, iba ibat age ng musikero mapa sa 18yrs hanggang 60yrs. So sa pag dating sa worship, basta para kay Lord, wala akong pinipiling klase ng genre or kanta. eventually there will come a time as we will mature in our service both musically and in our faith, we will become true servants playing music for God, and our brother and sister, not for ourselves. That is what i'm striving for. If we put God first then everything will fall in to place.


Offline UNIVERSAL_MODERATOR

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2013, 07:58:53 PM »
Pag ganito na mga Example ng tutugan sa loob ng Church nyo...


*

eh mag isip-isip na kayo... hindi lahat ng nagsasalita ng tungkol sa Dios eh sa Dios na, maalala nyo sana kahit si Satanas salita rin ng Dios ang ginagamit para mangdaya.. Hindi ba salita din ng Dios ang ginamit nya para tuksuin si Kristo sa ilang? kaparehas din yan ng hindi lahat ng humahawak ng Biblia ay sa Dios... at hindi lahat ng tugtugin kahit papuri pa yan kalugod-lugod sa Dios...

dagdag pa natin yung possibilities na pwedeng maka impluwensya sa kanila...
*paano kung maiisip nya magpa tattoo narin total rock-rockan narin lang nman
*eh magpaba narin kaya ng buhok para masulit ang headbangan?
*eh paano kung sa ganyang tugtugan nagiging mahalay galaw ng iba? kahit sa loob ng church pwede kang ma-libuggan kasi nkikita ng mata, kakatalon ng iba yumuyugyog mga malalaking dibdib ng kababaihan..
*sama mo pa na kahit sa pananamit ng mga babae sa panahon ngayon..kahit sa loob ng bahay sambahan..wala ng delikadesa, wala ng paki alam kung mapag nanasaan ba sila...sobrang hapit, bumabakat na, at kita mo na hubog ng katawan.. mkpag focus ka pa kaya sa faith mo... o pagnanasa na pumasok sa isip ng nagsasa Dios...
*at marami pang ibang Reality na ayaw pansinin ng iba kasi kinasanayan na...

sa huli siyasatin din natin sarili natin, sabihin na nating para sa Dios tugtugan... mas magiging mabuti, banal at maayos naman kaya itsura ng samahan nyo...? di nman ako againts sa "Christian Rock" may klase naman ng christian rock na para sakin magaganda pakinggan.. pero yung  christian rock na magiging wild ka na at hindi na magiging pino galaw mo..eh siguro isip isip din pag may time...

parang ganito: istorya ni Abel at  Cain...  eh si Cain ang gusto din mabuti diba? Hindi si Abel lang ang mababasang nag-iisa kundi dalawa silang NAG-HANDOG...  hindi  basta pagpuri sa bibig lang ang intensyon ni Cain, nagpagal pa sya para lang may mai-handa... ganunpaman: kahit ang intensyon nya mabuti at purihin ang DIOS, hindi sya naging katanggap tanggap sa huli... kasi  hindi nya ginawa ang DAPAT na UGALIIN ng nagsasa-DIOS...

hindi lahat ng mabuting intensyon na naiisip ng tao na sa PALAGAY nya TAMA para sa KANYA, eh tama narin at sasang ayunan narin ng Dios, kaya nga dapat may pinagbabatayan, kasi nga maliligaw ang tao pag ang  pakikinggan nya lang lagi eh yung palagay ng kung sino sino...parang ang labas eh nanghuhula kna lang ng tama sa hindi


yan ang batayan ko yung nasusulat... ewan ko sa iba kasi mag kakaiba tayo ng paniniwala.. di nman ang layunin ko eh wasakin ang paniniwala nyo.. nag bibigay lang ako ng bagay na baka naman pwede nyo rin pag-isip isipan, bka naman may katwiran din yung sinasabi ko..
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 01:25:59 PM by UNIVERSAL_MODERATOR »

Offline iyzburg

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 12:05:13 PM »
How about trying to get on it like this:

Jeremiah 9:24: But let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.

It doesn't depend on anything (that includes congregation), you have to GO BACK to the real reason: the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
If we say we know Him, and that we glory in Him, or we give glory to Him, then we do what is pleasurable according to Him, through the principles He gave us, which is pervasive in the entire Bible: Lovingkindness/mercy; Justice; and Righteousness.

Lovingkindness/mercy - Does the thing in question, say the songs, shows lovingkindness or mercy towards your intended audience, that is, the congregation? Or, does the type of songs I desire fulfills its purpose, that is, leading them to worship.. Etc..

Justice - does the song give justice to truth expressed in Scripture? Personally, I base justice (when it comes to songs for corporate worship, and all songs for that matter) to scriptural truth..

Righteousness - For me, it's my life (attitude, visible actions, words, etc) as a worship leader.. Dapat aligned as much as possible sa revealed standards of righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ..
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...

Offline iamnamra

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 12:35:12 PM »
I guess this really is normal when you are a part of a music team tapos andami mong gusto isuggest and later on itturn down lang or di ma-aapprove.

In our case, mahirap at madalang makapagpasok ng new songs lalo na kung mga magagandang songs na nirelease or bagong albums. Pero as time goes by, natutunan din nameng mag submit sa authority. May dahilan si God kung baket hindi nala-lineup yung songs na gusto namen and at the same time kailangan ding i-honor yung leader na nagdedecide.

Lastly, it still boils down to honoring God. Madalas madami tayong naiisip na factor and nakakalimutan naten yung real meaning ng worship. Christian first, Musician second.

Offline skyjammer

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 10:14:19 PM »
Kaya dapat we are empowering our respective church's worship leaders so they:

1. Know how to select theme-fitting songs (theme should be coming from the Pastor)
2. Meditate and pray for the fitting songs
3. Learn how to communicate the "inspired" line up to the team in order to set the team spirit
4. Lead the team in leading the congregation to worship in spirit

It's not a crime to "want" new/different songs. This can be "suggested" during the team's regular sharing/bonding moments. From these sessions, team members can share their inspirations and then worship leaders can also pick up inspirations from there that can be translated into powerful, Spirit-filled line ups.

When I was younger I was so against those who didn't like new, usually-upbeat songs. There were a lot of times when I didn't like the songs we played and playing the instrument felt trivial (routine/boring). My bro-in-law inspired me to play the songs based on the message and to whom it's being sung to, and since then any song I'd play would no longer have a genre badge. Every song felt the same -- Praise and Worship. We'd play old and new, english and tagalog songs and no one would complain.

Lastly, I don't believe in "it depends on the congregation..." as if the church practices democracy and not theocracy; as if the Holy Spirit moves depending on the vote of the people. I believe that it depends on how the team takes the congregation in a way of worship that CUTS through their spirit ( Can relate to, Understand, Talk to God, Sing to)

Offline kaishin_zurcs

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Re: It depends on the congregation.
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2013, 04:47:24 PM »
I think it's a common situation. I've experienced that too, sadly. In my opinion I think it does depend on the need of the people you are ministering to. Age is big factor, generational differences should be taken in consideration. For seasoned (old) folks; their preference is more on the tagalog songs which they understand or really prefer. For the youth; more on the upbeat english songs...which brings me to my next point, it also depends on your Music Ministry Head and your pastor; ideally they see the bigger picture and decide which would be acceptable/appreciated/would minister to the congregation.

We can always suggest song to learn  or to study, but then again suggestions can be okay'd or turned down, and you have to accept that.

What I do is talk to people of the same vibe that I have and try to discuss to him the song I have i mind; talking about the song either makes them curious and studies it or not.  I start teaching the song to one person and start with just jamming it then we teach it to another until the song ministers to them, then we get to have it in our line up.

Finally, it also depends on you... how good is your negotiation skills, your patience, your influence with other musicians.
(please note that we're not talking motives here. just saying :))


ang tagal ko nawala dito sa PM at ngaun lng ulit naka balik sir crouch pero grabe pa din ang wisdom mo. always enlightening :)
My Faith Blog: Behind this Piercings and all :  http://jeremysauzacruz.blogspot.com/

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Offline rednas

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 07:02:30 AM »
Quote
Lastly, I don't believe in "it depends on the congregation..." as if the church practices democracy and not theocracy; as if the Holy Spirit moves depending on the vote of the people. I believe that it depends on how the team takes the congregation in a way of worship that CUTS through their spirit ( Can relate to, Understand, Talk to God, Sing to)
I agree.  Although if the congregation could not relate to the song choices - it defeats the purpose of congregational worship. And it could be a sign that the team has strayed from what the the Holy Spirit intends.  Here is a good reminder:

Amos 5:21-24
“I can’t stand your religious meetings.
    I’m fed up with your conferences and conventions.
I want nothing to do with your religion projects,
    your pretentious slogans and goals.
I’m sick of your fund-raising schemes,
    your public relations and image making.
I’ve had all I can take of your noisy ego-music.
    When was the last time you sang to me?
Do you know what I want?
    I want justice—oceans of it.
I want fairness—rivers of it.
    That’s what I want. That’s all I want.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 07:11:57 AM by rednas »
“The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.” - J.S. Bach

Music Furniture

Offline skyjammer

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 01:21:25 PM »
I agree.  Although if the congregation could not relate to the song choices - it defeats the purpose of congregational worship. And it could be a sign that the team has strayed from what the the Holy Spirit intends.  Here is a good reminder:
Not sure if you're agreeing or you're also making another point bro but I think what you just said is what I meant in my last line. Or maybe it just confused me because you started your line with "Although". I'm not being jerky; I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.

By the way, I am not familiar with the Bible version you're quoting from in Amos so for the benefit of those who are not familiar with the verse, the context is that, this was during Israel's sinning, and religion/faith has become an institution (not so far from how some churches are nowadays). It absolutely does NOT mean religious meetings, conferences, conventions and other church activities/programs are bad  -- or deeds of scheme-scamming individuals.

Offline Jhoseph

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 05:39:58 PM »
Pag ganito na mga Example ng tutugan sa loob ng Church nyo...


*

eh mag isip-isip na kayo... hindi lahat ng nagsasalita ng tungkol sa Dios eh sa Dios na, maalala nyo sana kahit si Satanas salita rin ng Dios ang ginagamit para mangdaya.. Hindi ba salita din ng Dios ang ginamit nya para tuksuin si Kristo sa ilang? kaparehas din yan ng hindi lahat ng humahawak ng Biblia ay sa Dios... at hindi lahat ng tugtugin kahit papuri pa yan kalugod-lugod sa Dios...

dagdag pa natin yung possibilities na pwedeng maka impluwensya sa kanila...
*paano kung maiisip nya magpa tattoo narin total rock-rockan narin lang nman
*eh magpaba narin kaya ng buhok para masulit ang headbangan?
*eh paano kung sa ganyang tugtugan nagiging mahalay galaw ng iba? kahit sa loob ng church pwede kang ma-libuggan kasi nkikita ng mata, kakatalon ng iba yumuyugyog mga malalaking dibdib ng kababaihan..
*sama mo pa na kahit sa pananamit ng mga babae sa panahon ngayon..kahit sa loob ng bahay sambahan..wala ng delikadesa, wala ng paki alam kung mapag nanasaan ba sila...sobrang hapit, bumabakat na, at kita mo na hubog ng katawan.. mkpag focus ka pa kaya sa faith mo... o pagnanasa na pumasok sa isip ng nagsasa Dios...
*at marami pang ibang Reality na ayaw pansinin ng iba kasi kinasanayan na...

sa huli siyasatin din natin sarili natin, sabihin na nating para sa Dios tugtugan... mas magiging mabuti, banal at maayos naman kaya itsura ng samahan nyo...? di nman ako againts sa "Christian Rock" may klase naman ng christian rock na para sakin magaganda pakinggan.. pero yung  christian rock na magiging wild ka na at hindi na magiging pino galaw mo..eh siguro isip isip din pag may time...

parang ganito: istorya ni Abel at  Cain...  eh si Cain ang gusto din mabuti diba? Hindi si Abel lang ang mababasang nag-iisa kundi dalawa silang NAG-HANDOG...  hindi  basta pagpuri sa bibig lang ang intensyon ni Cain, nagpagal pa sya para lang may mai-handa... ganunpaman: kahit ang intensyon nya mabuti at purihin ang DIOS, hindi sya naging katanggap tanggap sa huli... kasi  hindi nya ginawa ang DAPAT na UGALIIN ng nagsasa-DIOS...

hindi lahat ng mabuting intensyon na naiisip ng tao na sa PALAGAY nya TAMA para sa KANYA, eh tama narin at sasang ayunan narin ng Dios, kaya nga dapat may pinagbabatayan, kasi nga maliligaw ang tao pag ang  pakikinggan nya lang lagi eh yung palagay ng kung sino sino...parang ang labas eh nanghuhula kna lang ng tama sa hindi


yan ang batayan ko yung nasusulat... ewan ko sa iba kasi mag kakaiba tayo ng paniniwala.. di nman ang layunin ko eh wasakin ang paniniwala nyo.. nag bibigay lang ako ng bagay na baka naman pwede nyo rin pag-isip isipan, bka naman may katwiran din yung sinasabi ko..

I totally agree with you bro. Marami na rin mga musicians ngayon ang sobrang naiimpluwensyahan ng Christian Rock music. Madalas ay mga kabataan. At kung di pa naman masyadong malalim ang pagkaunawa sa music lalo na sa Church music ay may tendencies na mag wild na. Lalo na if they coupled it with the common alibis: "it's not the instrument or the behavior of the person, it's in the heart. kung sa loob ng puso ay worship to the Lord ang intention e sige, wag hadlangan at wag i-judge"

Nagiging overused and misused ang pilosopiyang yan. Paano kung sa PUSO nga nya e pagwo-worship ang motive nya pero ang actuations, attitude at style nya e nakaka tisod/turn-off at nakaka dis-appoint na sa ibang church member whom he/she is suppposed to LEAD in WORSHIPPING GOD. Tapos pala e nagiging resentful ang member because of that.

One person's personal motive (be it honest or sincere) is good, but if it is not beneficial for the good and welfare of the majority of the brethren is akin to becoming a "deterrent" for people to worship God. Ang iba once na nasira na ang gana nila at nainis na ay hahalukipkip na lang at magmamasid sa paligid dahil nga di nila matanggap ang ganoong wild singing. Especially yung sobrang lakas ng volume level ng mga instrumento na halos mabingi na ang mga tao, yung di na rin maintindihan ang song lyrics and message ng kanta pati na rin boses ng singer.

Decency, delicadesa, professionalism and most of all ay isipin dapat kung ano ang mas acceptable to the majority, hindi yung sa palagay mo lang e ok na kasi nga "nasa puso mo nag woworship ka kay Lord kahit mag wild na. The Lord understand"

The Bible said "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial" Applicable din ito sa Church music. 

Christian rock music maybe permissible to a person or few persons, but it may not be generally beneficial to the whole church.

We should also consider the demography of our church, the Church doctrines, principles, practices and traditions in music preferences. Not every members of the church are youth and 'rakista.'  How about the mature and old ones?

Offline rednas

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 05:57:23 PM »
Not sure if you're agreeing or you're also making another point bro but I think what you just said is what I meant in my last line. Or maybe it just confused me because you started your line with "Although". I'm not being jerky; I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.

By the way, I am not familiar with the Bible version you're quoting from in Amos so for the benefit of those who are not familiar with the verse, the context is that, this was during Israel's sinning, and religion/faith has become an institution (not so far from how some churches are nowadays). It absolutely does NOT mean religious meetings, conferences, conventions and other church activities/programs are bad  -- or deeds of scheme-scamming individuals.

I agreed to your statement that it does not depend on the congregation.  However, I added that we should still consider the congregation's response, as it will give the worship team hints whether or not we are actually leading worship, or just playing some "ego-music". 

BTW, my response to the OP is this - Worship should "depend" on the leading of the Holy Spirit...

The Bible version I used is "The Message", it's a cool translation.  Note that the verse DOES mean what it says, religious activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity.
“The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul.” - J.S. Bach

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Offline skyjammer

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 09:20:27 PM »
I agreed to your statement that it does not depend on the congregation.  However, I added that we should still consider the congregation's response, as it will give the worship team hints whether or not we are actually leading worship, or just playing some "ego-music". 

BTW, my response to the OP is this - Worship should "depend" on the leading of the Holy Spirit...

The Bible version I used is "The Message", it's a cool translation.  Note that the verse DOES mean what it says, religious activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity.
Let's not confuse others by our points here. I used the acronym CUTS [through] (Can relate to, Understand, Talk to God, Sing to) and basically you will need to consider the congregation's response (real time, hence the worship leader needs to keep his/her eyes open at least 90% of the time and; after-worship, from the Pastor's feedback or from others) to be able to do it. "Considering" and "depending" are different, so we're really on the same page. "Although" and "However" were not necessary.

Let me put my point above in practice... I agree with you that we should "depend" on the leading of the Holy Spirit. If all else fails, the Holy Spirit won't. Additionally :wink:, the Holy Spirit does work not only when we are already worshiping, He may have already been working on a "message" on worship with your Pastor through the week or month's theme. Talking to the Pastor may help in understanding the Spirit's working (noun) in the church more.

The Bible version I used is "The Message", it's a cool translation.  Note that the verse DOES mean what it says, religious activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity.
The "The Message" translation, while more straightforward and applicable to the current Christians, should always be quoted with caution. That's why I added the context of the verses you quoted. In its original translation, it's not how it is said. It doesn't say "conferences, conventions, noisy ego-music, fund raising, etc." Without context, it can mean that church activities/programs are wrong and not of God. "Context" simply means "background" or the story behind the verse/chapter or content.

And you just did put the context in your response. activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity. And with that, I agree with you 100%.  :)

James 1:19 (NIV)

19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,

Offline niroh

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 11:45:12 PM »
James 1:19 (NIV)

19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,

magsubmit lang tayo sa may authority. . ., kahit saang church siguro nararanasan nila ang ganitong bagay. . . kahit kami sa church namin (CCF-Pasig Ever)

naranasan namin ito. . ., hanggang sa nagtry sila magline-up ng mga medjo rock, like planetshakers. . ., pero di talaga maiiwan na mga mga magrereklamo

from the people, as a FOH sa church, ang hirap din kapag may nagsabi na (masyadong malakas ang tugtugan!) kaya kapag sabi ni ptr. na hinaan ng konti

susunod ako dahil sila ang may authority, ganun din siguro sa mga ministry leaders natin like sa music

Offline skyjammer

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 01:57:36 PM »
magsubmit lang tayo sa may authority. . ., kahit saang church siguro nararanasan nila ang ganitong bagay. . . kahit kami sa church namin (CCF-Pasig Ever)

naranasan namin ito. . ., hanggang sa nagtry sila magline-up ng mga medjo rock, like planetshakers. . ., pero di talaga maiiwan na mga mga magrereklamo

from the people, as a FOH sa church, ang hirap din kapag may nagsabi na (masyadong malakas ang tugtugan!) kaya kapag sabi ni ptr. na hinaan ng konti

susunod ako dahil sila ang may authority, ganun din siguro sa mga ministry leaders natin like sa music

I agree with this. There was even a study made in congregations led by acousticians and they found out that more than 50% of the reasons of new  church attendees leaving is the sound (amplitude). The problem is they do not even know they are only complaining about the sound unless it is explained to them. Weird naman kung kakausapin natin ang mga bisita at sabihin, "Actually ok naman kami, di mo lang nagustuhan yung lakas ng sound namin." Hehehe!

Offline niroh

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 10:24:27 PM »
maganda din kung ma-eevaluate din natin ang mgasarily natin. . ., kamusta na ba ang relationship natin kay Lord?

Offline KUBETA

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2013, 02:34:57 AM »
Quote
Lalo na if they coupled it with the common alibis "it's not the instrument or the behavior of the person, it's in the heart. kung sa loob ng puso ay worship to the Lord ang intention e sige, wag hadlangan at wag i-judge"

tama ka... mas maalab kasi pag-ibig na alam nila sa Musika vs Bible... dinadahilan ng iba yan para pagbigyan ang gusto nila... ang iba papilosopo pa nga... basta daw about praise and worship kay GOD ginawa mo pasok na daw yun... mababaw kasi pundasyon na itinituro sa kanila sa Biblia... siguro pag yung isang kilalang "Rock Icon" gumawa ng Christian Rock album na mala Slayer ang dating... wala ng question question idol agad... masarap kasi sa tenga eh... halata mo agad kung ano yung mas matimbang sa interes nila... hanggang ang maging katwiran ng iba, dahil nakikita at ginagawa na ng iba yan kaya pwede na  narin kasi 2013 marami ng nagbago kaya dapat maki-uso rin...

ang salita ng Dios nagtuturo ng kahin-hinan... di pwedeng ikatwiran ng iba na dahil marami ng nagsusuot ng mga pa sexy at maiikling short ngayon eh... makiki isa ka narin... hindi na kahin-hinan tawag jan... gusto ata ng iba talagang letra por letra at may drawing pa mababasa sa bible na di nga sang ayon ang Dios jan...

kung paanong nagtuturo ang Dios ng kahin-hinan patungkol sa pananamit, BOBBO ka nyan  kung pag dating sa musika dimo i aaply yan... kelangan pa bang nababasa sa Biblia kung anong klase ng musika mahinhin sa hindi?

kung ako tatanungin medyo korny sakin mga tugtuging pang church... talagang mas magaganda tugtugan ng pang sanlibutan eh... gaya ng mga favorite kong Pantera, Led Zeppelin, Guns n Roses, Nirvana ...etc...  pero alang alang sa katwiran di ako suma sang ayon sa mga klase ng CHristian Rock na sobrang maiingay puro sigawan nalang.... di ko nilalahat ah

Ngayon kung ang kakatwiran naman ng iba
Quote
"it's in the heart. kung sa loob ng puso ay worship to the Lord ang intention sige, wag hadlangan at wag i-judge"
ikina lulungkot ko pero sa pamantayan ng Dios ng Biblia BAGSAK na agad sinumang may paniniwalang ganyan...

Mateo:
21: Hindi lahat ng tumatawag sa akin, 'Panginoon, Panginoon,' ay papasok sa kaharian ng langit, kundi ang mga tao lamang na sumusunod sa kalooban ng aking Ama na nasa langit.
22: Sa Araw ng Paghuhukom marami ang magsasabi sa akin, 'Panginoon, hindi po ba kami ay nagpahayag ng mensahe mula sa Diyos, nagpalayas ng mga demonyo at gumawa ng mga himala sa iyong pangalan?'
23: Ngunit sasabihin ko sa kanila, 'Hindi ko kayo nakikilala. Lumayo kayo sa akin, kayong mga gumagawa ng kasamaan.


verse 21: diba jan nga bumagsak si Cain.. kahit ang intensyon nya pumuri, kahit nagpagod at nagpawis pa sya para lang may ihandog eh sinumpa pa siya?   kung ang intensyon mo basta worship to the Lord lang wala kaparin binatbat sa ginawa ni Cain dahil siya nagpagal at nagpakahirap pa...!

verse 22:   Mismong mga PASTOR at mga MANGANGAGARAL na tinutukoy  jan... na ang gamit din BIBLIA... nagpalayas pa ng Demonyo at Gumawa pa ng mga himala.... di nman pwedeng atheista mga yan dahil di gumagamit ng Biblia yan..

eh kung yan mga manlolokong Pastor, na Biblia narin ginagamit, eh ano pa kaya yung tugtugang pang worship at praise lang kay GOD?... kaya nga dapat may batayan yung sinusunod na faith eh....   maliligaw tayo pag ang pakikinggan natin eh mga kilala at dinadakila nyong tao tapos ang sasabihin lang eh... "I personally believe" tapos todo idol sunod narin agad sa paniniwala nila....LOLS

ganunpaman: "sabi ni Kristo igalang mo lahat ng TAO"..  kaya magagawa nalang natin eh mag-paalala.. kasalanan na kasi ang kasunod pag pinilit pa natin sila sa gusto natin..  pabayaan nalang sila sa gusto nila..


« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 02:56:41 AM by KUBETA »

Offline skyjammer

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2013, 11:44:40 PM »
I apologize to the threadstarter because it was me who started kind of veering away from the topic.

Now guys, let's go back to the original topic. It's about learning what type of music would fit the church you're in. Let's not reply with the presumption that there is something wrong with [the heart] of the team of the threadstarter. Maybe you can share your personal or your church's experience on the matter. I think the threadstarter wants to hear our thoughts on the matter and not a  diagnosis of an unmentioned problem. :)

Offline ozborne

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2013, 12:31:18 AM »
ok naman siguro na mabilis ang timing para di antukin yung mga tao at medyo rock ang dating,  pero wag lang over ang distortion o me mga drums na masyado mabilis o anu ano pa  para i ipakita ang galing.  huwag muna me time para dyan,  praising muna,  Dios ang bida,  di tayo sa ganitong sitwasyon
"one is too many a thousand is not enough"

Offline KUBETA

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2013, 12:57:28 AM »
Quote
I apologize to the threadstarter because it was me who started kind of veering away from the topic.

Now guys, let's go back to the original topic. It's about learning what type of music would fit the church you're in. Let's not reply with the presumption that there is something wrong with [the heart] of the team of the threadstarter. Maybe you can share your personal or your church's experience on the matter. I think the threadstarter wants to hear our thoughts on the matter and not a  diagnosis of an unmentioned problem.

ok lang po yan kung dahil sa palagay ng iba eh nagiging malinaw ang tema...  Dapat lang talaga napag uusapan yang ganito... kasi kung Hindi pupunahin ang MALI eh lahat nalang maniniwala sa MALI lalong dadami maniniwala sa MALI... ang totoo kung Biblia ang pag-uusapan, di pwede idahilan ng iba na dahil ayaw mo magkaroon ng kaaway dimo narin sisitahin yung mali...

Tito 1:13:  Ang patotoong ito ay tunay. Dahil dito'y sawayin mong may kabagsikan sila, upang mangapakagaling sa pananampalataya,

maraming tauhan sa Biblia ang pinatay dahil sa ganyan mga gawain nila... common jan ang dinidebate pa nila yung mga bantog, kilala, at mga nasaka pangyarihang mga tao sa panahon nila, basta makakapag ligaw ng paniniwala ke hari payan kakalabanin nila yan...di pwede sabihin ng mga religion ngayon na dahil di nila pinupuna maling pananampalataya ng iba religion at di sila nakikipag diskusyon eh mas matutuwid at banal pa sila sa mga naging tauhan sa Biblia... Utos kasi yan eh... para maitama mo ang mali kahit may magalit sayo sabihin mo yung dapat at yung tama...

Quote
ok naman siguro na mabilis ang timing para di antukin yung mga tao at medyo rock ang dating,  pero wag lang over ang distortion o me mga drums na masyado mabilis o anu ano pa  para i ipakita ang galing.  huwag muna me time para dyan,  praising muna,  Dios ang bida,  di tayo sa ganitong sitwasyon

TAMA! di  ako againts sa Christian Rock mga bro huh... wag lang yung parang barubal na dating...para maging specific ako siguro sabihin ko na mga tipong ala beatles, elvis presley, queen yan pwede pasok pa.... pero wag naman yung tipong wala na sa hulog yung tugtugan basta makapag ingay nalang at maipakita nyang talagang rakista sya sa loob ng church nila...  pati sa pagkanta dimo na maintindihan sinasabi kaka-sigaw... dimo mo na makita yung pagka disente sa pagsamba pagka ganyan... at ang idadahilan nalang eh basta papuri OK na daw yun...  di naman mahirap intindihin yung klase ng  disenteng papuri sa hindi...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:31:48 AM by KUBETA »

Offline skyjammer

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2013, 04:30:13 AM »
ok lang po yan kung dahil sa palagay ng iba eh nagiging malinaw ang tema...  Dapat lang talaga napag uusapan yang ganito... kasi kung Hindi pupunahin ang MALI eh lahat nalang maniniwala sa MALI lalong dadami maniniwala sa MALI... ang totoo kung Biblia ang pag-uusapan, di pwede idahilan ng iba na dahil ayaw mo magkaroon ng kaaway dimo narin sisitahin yung mali...

Tito 1:13:  Ang patotoong ito ay tunay. Dahil dito'y sawayin mong may kabagsikan sila, upang mangapakagaling sa pananampalataya,

maraming tauhan sa Biblia ang pinatay dahil sa ganyan mga gawain nila... common jan ang dinidebate pa nila yung mga bantog, kilala, at mga nasaka pangyarihang mga tao sa panahon nila, basta makakapag ligaw ng paniniwala ke hari payan kakalabanin nila yan...di pwede sabihin ng mga religion ngayon na dahil di nila pinupuna maling pananampalataya ng iba religion at di sila nakikipag diskusyon eh mas matutuwid at banal pa sila sa mga naging tauhan sa Biblia... Utos kasi yan eh... para maitama mo ang mali kahit may magalit sayo sabihin mo yung dapat at yung tama...

TAMA! di  ako againts sa Christian Rock mga bro huh... wag lang yung parang barubal na dating...para maging specific ako siguro sabihin ko na mga tipong ala beatles, elvis presley, queen yan pwede pasok pa.... pero wag naman yung tipong wala na sa hulog yung tugtugan basta makapag ingay nalang at maipakita nyang talagang rakista sya sa loob ng church nila...  pati sa pagkanta dimo na maintindihan sinasabi kaka-sigaw... dimo mo na makita yung pagka disente sa pagsamba pagka ganyan... at ang idadahilan nalang eh basta papuri OK na daw yun...  di naman mahirap intindihin yung klase ng  disenteng papuri sa hindi...
ibig ko lang po sabihin sir wag natin i-hijack ang post na ito. Kung may gusto kayo i-point out about "wrong" church practices, magsimula na lang po kayo ng ibang bagong thread. Nais lang po ng gumawa ng thread na ito na malaman ang approach ng ibang church sa ganitong topic. Sharing lang po ng actual practices, hindi po ng basic Christian foundation. Di ko po sinasabing di importante ito, out of topic nga lang sa purpose ng threadstarter.

Offline ozborne

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2013, 01:51:10 PM »
meron din akong nakitang 2 topic pa dito.   1.  ok lang ba magpatugtog ng  christian metal habang nag worship 2.   nag depende ba sa congregation kung ano ang aking playlist  during the  worship.   ginamit niya ang salitang congregation so pasok dito yung mga different christian sect and denominations.    meron denominations na nag invest talaga sa sound system para maka attract ng followers at yung ok sa congregation ay ok sa kanila. nag play sila ng mga folk songs at alternative na ok ang mga mensahe at naka attract ang melody,  kaya kelangan sensitive din tayo sa like nila kaya sasabihin ng pastor ups, medyo di yata klik yan so stop muna pero kung ok sa congregation sige tuloy dyan tayo kikita para dumami ang members natin.
sa pangalawa sitwasyon patungkol ito sa mainstream church natin which is Catholic.   meron mga music ministry dyan at kasama ang pari sa mga meeting kung ano ang mga songs o genre na pwde at alam naman natin na sa Catholic ay mga sinaunang tugtugan ang nakagawian at meron na din naka appreciate ng medyo modern music.  pero malaking issue yan pag nagpatugtog ka ng metal pwede siguro medyo mellow rock  :-) dito it depends sa choir leader kung ano ang kanyang set of songs with the help of the Gospel reading kasi mas madami alam yun mga choir na mga songs na new and old na pwede ikabit sa readings.   

 kaya dito mag suffer yung ating artistry at musical creativity ayaw natin pare pareho na lang ang tugtugan kasi malimitahan yung skills at expressions  natin .  minsan yung members ay di din nagkasundo kung ano songs ang mas angkop at meron gustong songs na di trip ng ilan    opinyon lang  :nosebleed:
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:55:26 PM by ozborne »
"one is too many a thousand is not enough"

Offline KUBETA

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Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2013, 02:59:21 PM »
Quote
ibig ko lang po sabihin sir wag natin i-hijack ang post na ito. Kung may gusto kayo i-point out about "wrong" church practices, magsimula na lang po kayo ng ibang bagong thread. Nais lang po ng gumawa ng thread na ito na malaman ang approach ng ibang church sa ganitong topic. Sharing lang po ng actual practices, hindi po ng basic Christian foundation. Di ko po sinasabing di importante ito, out of topic nga lang sa purpose ng threadstarter. 



sorry po.. muka syang out of topic na talaga pero related parin sya... kaya nagbibigay na ako ng comparison para mas madali mag timbang...  kasi nga may iba kahit nararamdaman nyang di na akma yung musika nila..di nya rin mapagsabihan..kasi mas marami magiging kalaban nya, kaya ngiti nalang..  di nman kc ang basis ng faith eh kung sino mas marami yun ang tama...   kaya nga nasabi ko dapat pinupuna rin paniniwalang ganyan, kasi kahit MUSIKA na may kinalaman sa pananampalataya maidadamay jan...

kung tungkol naman direkta sa Topic, it depends upon the congretion and religion sagot ko... kasi kahit iisa Biblia gamit natin di tlaga lahat magkksundo, may iba ang sinunod nalang na batayan eh yung damdamin nila... yung mga paliwanag ng batayan nila eh tipong "sa palagay KO tama lang", "para SAKIN ok lang", "wala naman SIGURO masama".. yan ang tinatawag na paniniwalang walang batayan... kaya nga may iba pwede sa pagkaing ganito sa iba hindi, ganun din sa pananamit, at syempre damay jan pati pag-gawa ng MUSIC....