Dissecting HIYAW... the science, the psycho-acoustic nature, and the fallacies

[pitongjerome]

In the case of the Firemodel 55, its like the double note is always ON.  Its not some kind of distorted raspy electronic effect but its as if the guitar had a built in slight chorus.  As a consequence, you really need to back off on the gain and the volume on a good amp because the guitar is so richly harmonically that it can cut thru all the instruments in the band and that includes beating the bass, keyboards, drums and cymbals. 

how about those people who doesn't prefer that? do all people want that double note? how about that slight chorus?

how about if theres someone who doesnt prefer it and buys a guitar without those characteristics, does it mean his guitar sucks?

[acidtest]

using a cheapo plywood guitar in fact. no kidding.

seems my beat up N2 can do this to a certain extent. so much for expensive guitars.....

[lolwat]

Pardon for butting in, but it's starting to feel like "kayang mag-demolish ng bahay ang beyblade ko" with the seemingly grandiose claims coming from sir Alex.

[gradual nothing]

Alex's guitar may have more double tone than the conversion. Then again maybe not. As of this point, I don't think it really matters, with that being a distinct attribute of the guitar. What's more important if you ask me is what you do with the double tone and how you actually make use of that beautiful character and make it shine with the way you play the instrument. You really don't need double tone if you're just going to pound power chord after power chord on your guitar.

I've played that guitar. It sounds as darn good as it looks. Is it an all around guitar because of its hiyaw? Probably not. I think it will be killer for a particular type of musical application but not all. I guess my point is, nobody needs to feel bad if his guitar doesn't hiyaw as much as his neighbor's guitar. At the end of the day, pick the intrument that best suits what you want based on your application.

Alex, if you do decide to want to compare though, I don't mind at all. You're welcome to visit! We're all grown men, I can handle it no matter which way it goes 

darn..this is the best thing i've ever read.. most of the guitarist doesn't know this almost all.. it's not really about the guitar or his rig.. it's the player.. for me every guitar is good, well not just good but really better, it's just a matter of how you're using it ang how you make people hear and feel you when you play the instrument. though we all know that those things has really a big factor.. but still its in the player pa rin!!

[deltaslim]

Alex's guitar may have more double tone than the conversion. Then again maybe not. As of this point, I don't think it really matters, with that being a distinct attribute of the guitar. What's more important if you ask me is what you do with the double tone and how you actually make use of that beautiful character and make it shine with the way you play the instrument. You really don't need double tone if you're just going to pound power chord after power chord on your guitar.

I've played that guitar. It sounds as darn good as it looks. Is it an all around guitar because of its hiyaw? Probably not. I think it will be killer for a particular type of musical application but not all. I guess my point is, nobody needs to feel bad if his guitar doesn't hiyaw as much as his neighbor's guitar. At the end of the day, pick the intrument that best suits what you want based on your application.

True. I've heard of people who complained about that hiyaw effect and ask how to remove it fron their guitar. Some are metal/hard rock guys and some are jazz cats, IIRC. For the sound they are after, I can imagine why.

Indeed, kanya-kanyang preference yan. They're just tools, and we try to use the right tool for the job... Although how well we handle those tools also dictate how well we can do our job.

[pitongjerome]

whew. +1 to flippo and deltaslim. exactly what ive been thinking, what ive been pointing out

[lolwat]

Let me again add to this worthy discussion with a quote from Henry Van Dyke:

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except the best."

I guess it also applies to guitars then

[bryanarzaga]

Of all the guitars I have tested on Earth at this point in time, the Baker Firemodel 55 has the most hiyaw.  For those who don't believe you can ask my close friend Arie Hipolito.  Period.  Pending the Gil Yaron I ordered, Baker Firemodel 55's HIYAW ABILITY is its specific strength aside from the fact that the guitar itself has MOJO.  I don't feel comfortable comparing it to anyone's other guitar because it might make them feel bad.  I mean ... walang solution.  

alex i have nothing against the guitar itself, im just saying at this point in time it would be cool if you could share with filippo or guitarfox the unique properties of that guitar. period..its not a competition just guys enjoying/sharing their guitars..hey i would if i could

How can I even duplicate the 55 or even transfer its properties to the other guitar?

you cant, no one can, talking about sound(tone) no one can predict the outcome of a guitar, playability and setup yeah of course

By the way, I have two bakers

cool, pics please!

but Firemodel 55's strength is both the thick top of the bend sustain along with the double note when its bent.

would that mean the other one will have a discounted price

As a consequence, you really need to back off on the gain and the volume on a good amp because the guitar is so richly harmonically that it can cut thru all the instruments in the band and that includes beating the bass, keyboards, drums and cymbals.  

i'd like to see and hear that in action sometime in 2011/2012 ok?

[itchybrain]

You should change your sig bro to "I WANNA HEAR THE PUSANG NAGLALAMPONG" 

DONE!

BTT:

Sa guitars lang ba ang tunog ng naglalampong na pusa? Pati ba sa Bass merong ganung tunog?

[maxi_musikero]

True. I've heard of people who complained about that hiyaw effect and ask how to remove it fron their guitar. Some are metal/hard rock guys and some are jazz cats, IIRC. For the sound they are after, I can imagine why.

Indeed, kanya-kanyang preference yan. They're just tools, and we try to use the right tool for the job... Although how well we handle those tools also dictate how well we can do our job.

net net, it still boils down to the player-guitar relationship.  not too much on one guitar being superior to the other. 

[jmreyes]

If a guitar has hiyaw, can it be heard through any amp? Or does one need a hiyaw-specific amp for the purpose?

[deltaslim]

Joric

I wonder what guitar the guys was using in the clip. Would you know what it is? it says 55 les paul? Is it a 55 conversion?

Since he's using HBs, it's definitely a conversion (assuming it's a reall 55, prolly a goldtop or custom).

[Filippo]

yeah that's what I thought too... no humucker 55s...

I don't think this alludes to hiyaw coming only from old wood though. Though I must say it is a character that I have observed more of in old wood. Maybe the air pockets in the wood coupled with the tighter growth rings?

[markv]

... this guy knows the science of hiyaw.

[Xelly]

[deltaslim]

... this guy knows the science of hiyaw.

"My RJ Lespu has the most hiyaw of all...   Bazinga!"  

Love TBBT!

[psychic_sushi]

True. I've heard of people who complained about that hiyaw effect and ask how to remove it fron their guitar. Some are metal/hard rock guys and some are jazz cats, IIRC. For the sound they are after, I can imagine why.

Indeed, kanya-kanyang preference yan. They're just tools, and we try to use the right tool for the job... Although how well we handle those tools also dictate how well we can do our job.

I don't want nuttin' to get in duh way of mah C7b10b13 chord!  

I agree with the kanyang-kanyang preference. It also boils down to the application as well. Too much of the "hiyaw" factor may not play in favor of or serve a purpose for folks who enjoy density and polyphony in their music. But I am appreciative of that quality in the jazz-rock-blues realm.

It's a nifty quality to have. I just feel that it can't be the sole measurement of what would qualify a guitar to be good.

[free2rock]

I don't want nuttin' to get in duh way of mah C7b10b13 chord!  

I LOL'd

[burnsbhm]

As long as you are making beautiful music, your guitar is your preference. Be it a Yarron or a Lazer.

But of course that only goes to a certain extent.

Kalokohan naman if we say that a P3,000 Raon electric guitar can outclass a Yarron...

[fusionenigma]

I don't want nuttin' to get in duh way of mah C7b10b13 chord!  

Flatted 10th? That's the hiyaw note. 

[psychic_sushi]

Flatted 10th? That's the hiyaw note. 

so that's the interval that makes my cat go nuts!

[markv]

major 3rd! 

[spetsnaz1123]

does "hiyaw" really matters? <<< good thread topic IMO 

[inigo]

I tried out an unplugged Hamer explorer at JB ATC yesterday, held the body to my ear, and heard each chord and note I struck evolve into a whistling sound, like feedback. I took another unit from the hanger (and a couple more afterwards) and it didn't do the same. Yun ba yung hiyaw?

[EST2TELE]

As long as you are making beautiful music, your guitar is your preference. Be it a Yarron or a Lazer.

But of course that only goes to a certain extent.

Kalokohan naman if we say that a P3,000 Raon electric guitar can outclass a Yarron...

But i bet there's a whole lot of HIYAW and more that can be coaxed out of the P3000 raon electric in the hands of masters sushi and slim than the Yaron in lesser hands such as mine