Myth or truth? Can you tell the difference if it will be heard during a blind test?
Yup. From the sound to the way the amp responds to how you play, ibang iba talaga yung sound for me.
Have you tried one already? :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: DiMarzSiao™ on September 26, 2013, 02:33:21 PM
"better" is subjective/objective.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 26, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
I think only you can answer that question. :idea:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on September 26, 2013, 03:19:32 PM
Everyone who has played through an AXE FX II would tell you differently. Pero kanya kanya din yan.
Tube amps being louder and sounding better? True and not true at some degree. If measured both, a solid state and a tube amp would measure the same loudness if dialed the same way. None of them is louder. The human ear is just sensitive to some frequencies which tube amps tend to amplify better that's why they sound louder to us and not to the measuring device.
Tube amps also happen to amplify the harmonics that is preferred by the human ear. Solid state, not so much. That is why the soft, slow roast distortion we hear with tube amps sound better than the sudden and harsh distortion we hear with solid state amplifiers. So to us, it almost always is the case the tube amps seem louder and more musical.
But that is always not the case. Some solid state amps can rival tube amps already. And some people go for that solid state harshness and immediacy that tube amps can't give. That for them is the better sound. To them, a tube amp just sounds so "soft" and too much. Alot of jazz musicians also prefer solid state amplifiers.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bart on September 26, 2013, 03:25:45 PM
Just like the other threads with "better" in the title..... :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: siore on September 26, 2013, 03:26:52 PM
IMO better but I wouldn't mind playing a good solidstate. Don't go confuse solidstate with modellers though. To that point it becomes analog vs digital, and a lot would argue kemper and axefx have gone far and beyond. And as far as a live rig is concerned, it simplifies a lot of things.
I still prefer tube amps though. I can't prove it would sound and feel better, but that's how the experience of gear translates to me at this point of time in 2013.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skunkyfunk on September 26, 2013, 04:05:16 PM
the best solidstate amps can rival the best tube amps. Ex. SS Hughes and Kettner Attax heads vs. TUBE Marshall TSL 100
But in general, a cheap solidstate will be eaten by a budget tube amp. Ex. Ss Marshall MG10 vs. Vox AC4TV
Modelling preamps are not amps, so you still need tubes to make them sound better for a live rig, unless you hook straight to PA. Kempers and AxeFx as examples.
Pero to answer your question: science has proven tubes have more 'cut' because of more harmonic distortion. A band setting always requires cut. So, tube amps are better in that case, unless you go for really loud SS amps. The SS Tech21 Trademark 300 can rival a 100w tube amp.
Tonewise, subjective na yan.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on September 26, 2013, 04:19:40 PM
unless you go for really loud SS amps. The SS Tech21 Trademark 300 can rival a 100w tube amp.
Hahaha Randall has some 420-500 watt amps. The ISP Theta Amp can go 400w modded. Really Loud and has a loooooot of headroom.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fender101 on September 26, 2013, 04:21:17 PM
Depende talaga sa guitar player yun hahaha
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shoegaze geezer on September 26, 2013, 04:41:10 PM
mostly, tube amps sound superior than solid states. but depends on the brand and model.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 26, 2013, 04:44:47 PM
For guitar music, a definite Yes. We can argue what ifs and all things being equal... etc. or subjective vs. objective... I have an array of guitar tube amps that NOBODY IN THIS COUNTRY can beat with their equal array of solid state guitar amps.
Even the so called paradigm that a jazz guitar amp should be solid state is disproven by the Bruno Super 100 which has a jazz setting.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 26, 2013, 04:47:08 PM
If it is just the perception of the listener if one has to determine the sound "goodness" of a tube amp vs a solid state, then we can say that tube amp being better in sound quality is just a myth cause there has to be a consensus of everybody and not the mere perception of each listener..
For example:
A new Mercedes Benz definitely drives better than a new Kia Pride..
agree?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 26, 2013, 04:51:10 PM
mostly, tube amps sound superior than solid states. but depends on the brand and model.
If that is the case, then some SS amp will definitely sound better than some tube amp depending on the make....So do you think now that the tube amp thing is just a myth?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 26, 2013, 04:54:50 PM
If it depends on just a guitarist, then a tube amp goodness is a myth cause if one good guitarist uses a ss amp and one bad guitarist uses a tube amp, then during a blind test the perception of the listeners will be that the ss amp sounds better because of the guitarist using it....
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on September 26, 2013, 04:58:49 PM
A cranked Randall V2 or Warhead sounds better to me than a ENGL Fireball. But then, that's just me.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 26, 2013, 05:24:44 PM
If it depends on just a guitarist, then a tube amp goodness is a myth cause if one good guitarist uses a ss amp and one bad guitarist uses a tube amp, then during a blind test the perception of the listeners will be that the ss amp sounds better because of the guitarist using it....
I think that makes the premise unfair since you're comparing just both the equipment, thus, let's make the guitar technique or the player constant.
But then again, "better" is subjective. What sounds good to one, might not sound go to others.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shoegaze geezer on September 26, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
If it is just the perception of the listener if one has to determine the sound "goodness" of a tube amp vs a solid state, then we can say that tube amp being better in sound quality is just a myth cause there has to be a consensus of everybody and not the mere perception of each listener..
For example:
A new Mercedes Benz definitely drives better than a new Kia Pride..
agree?
yes. a new mercedes benz drives better than a kia pride. pardon, but i did not get your point in relation to the topic.
regarding tube amps, as i have stated...not all tube amps are superior to some solid states. depends on the brand and model.
example. a roland jc 120 is superior in sound quality than some all tube amps. if you call some tube amps being superior than solid states as a myth, then it is up to you. i have no right to judge anyone. i am just stating through personal experience.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 26, 2013, 07:40:42 PM
So to sum it all, it is therefore not true that tube amps sound better than solid state cause there are lots of gray areas to be considered....It boils down to a listener's perception about the sound quality of each....So if this is the case, do you think that tube amp is just a marketing ploy? Tube amps are a tad more expensive than ss amp and require periodic tube change which requires emptying some of those lose change in your pocket, so why insist on a tube amp?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 26, 2013, 07:51:15 PM
So to sum it all, it is therefore not true that tube amps sound better than solid state cause there are lots of gray areas to be considered....It boils down to a listener's perception about the sound quality of each....So if this is the case, do you think that tube amp is just a marketing ploy? Tube amps are a tad more expensive than ss amp and require periodic tube change which requires emptying some of those lose change in your pocket, so why insist on a tube amp?
I don't think so especially if we're talking about mid to high end level amp. The low end ones though might par up or even be exceeded with a good solid state. But still to me, tube amps sing better to my ears. Tried only a few though but I can hear what's lacking with solid states.
Everything in this world has it's disadvantage. Like, a Mercedez Benz might look classy but gulps up a lot of gas than a Kia pride. It's up to you if you'd leave with that consequence or if it's worth the extra maintenance.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on September 26, 2013, 08:02:44 PM
Based from my own experience, tube amps really sounds good than my solidstate amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 26, 2013, 08:08:45 PM
I don't think so especially if we're talking about mid to high end level amp. The low end ones though might par up or even be exceeded with a good solid state. But still to me, tube amps sing better to my ears. Tried only a few though but I can hear what's lacking with solid states.
Everything in this world has it's disadvantage. Like, a Mercedez Benz might look classy but gulps up a lot of gas than a Kia pride. It's up to you if you'd leave with that consequence or if it's worth the extra maintenance.
I don't know bro cause I am a youtube freak...There was a vid comparing a solid state Tech 21 to a peavey and a fender tweed on clean setting and I thought the cheap tech 21 raped the 2 tube amps on all direction....Why is that?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: alvinratsim on September 26, 2013, 08:10:55 PM
Solidstate ftw! Its betterer
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 26, 2013, 08:17:39 PM
I don't know bro cause I am a youtube freak...There was a vid comparing a solid state Tech 21 to a peavey and a fender tweed on clean setting and I thought the cheap tech 21 raped the 2 tube amps on all direction....Why is that?
I think that tech21, especially the trademark series, can match with tube amps though but not all (I'm just basing this on reviews though; never tried one) . However, basing your findings over youtube might not be that accurate for comparison. I've uploaded video covers through youtube and there's really a difference between the unuploaded video and the one streamed on youtube.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 26, 2013, 08:22:06 PM
I would bet that none of us here can identify a good solid state amp vs a good tube amp in a blind test :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on September 26, 2013, 08:22:28 PM
Comparison for clean setting only? better do it both clean and dirty channels and volume on 7 to 10
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 26, 2013, 08:28:14 PM
This might be true...A mere psychological perception cause we guitarists were pre-conditioned to believe that tube amps are supposed to sound good...What if?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 26, 2013, 08:53:23 PM
Is your mind not conditioned yet to believe that tube amps are supposed to sound better than solid state or there is really truth to your words based on actual auditory experience?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jm the mute on September 26, 2013, 09:05:03 PM
tingin ko its about the "feel" of tube amps that makes it "better". tube amps feel more responsive and dynamic...but then again depende sa gusto ng user.
for me i prefer tube. another plus for tube amps is i think mas madali sila ayusin or i-maintain
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: siore on September 26, 2013, 09:07:17 PM
Ah I thought it was an honest question from the original post asking experiences with tube amps and solid-state. I can see from the line of questioning now that the OP wants to generate a good discussion, with a slight bent on disproving that tube amps automatically sound better.
GC could use another tubes vs SS thread from time to time. All good but excuse me if I stick to tube amps if preference is asked (I guess no one's really asking). BTW, blind listening tests are moot in this case, and the Kia vs Mercedes analogy doesn't really hold water. In my opinion, and your mileage may vary.
Are we looking to psychologiocal tests now for more proof?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skunkyfunk on September 26, 2013, 09:15:17 PM
The mere fact that digital amps want to emulate tube amps mean they are much preferred to solidstate amps. Have you seen a modeller amp trying to emulate a Marshall MG10? :D
The OP knows the answer to his question.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 26, 2013, 09:22:29 PM
tingin ko its about the "feel" of tube amps that makes it "better". tube amps feel more responsive and dynamic...but then again depende sa gusto ng user.
for me i prefer tube. another plus for tube amps is i think mas madali sila ayusin or i-maintain
I can't comment on dynamics. I think it's more dependent on the guitar handling rather than the amp itself.
In terms of maintenance, solid state amps have nothing to maintain. Tube amps are actually one of the most problematic equipment of a gigging musician. Nobody would tour with them without a good backup because you could lose a tube at any time.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 26, 2013, 09:23:33 PM
The mere fact that digital amps want to emulate tube amps mean they are much preferred to solidstate amps. Have you seen a modeller amp trying to emulate a Marshall MG10? :D
Why model when you can buy the real thing cheap?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skunkyfunk on September 26, 2013, 09:32:02 PM
For guitar music, a definite Yes. We can argue what ifs and all things being equal... etc. or subjective vs. objective... I have an array of guitar tube amps that NOBODY IN THIS COUNTRY can beat with their equal array of solid state guitar amps.
Even the so called paradigm that a jazz guitar amp should be solid state is disproven by the Bruno Super 100 which has a jazz setting.
I honestly do not believe this too, because most of the best-recorded jazz guitar tones were done on tube amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 26, 2013, 09:58:30 PM
I don't know bro cause I am a youtube freak...There was a vid comparing a solid state Tech 21 to a peavey and a fender tweed on clean setting and I thought the cheap tech 21 raped the 2 tube amps on all direction....Why is that?
Kasi sobrang bilib ka sa youtube...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 26, 2013, 10:00:41 PM
I can't comment on dynamics. I think it's more dependent on the guitar handling rather than the amp itself.
In terms of maintenance, solid state amps have nothing to maintain. Tube amps are actually one of the most problematic equipment of a gigging musician. Nobody would tour with them without a good backup because you could lose a tube at any time.
Generally, when a solid state amp goes; its gone forever. Unlike tube amps, which can even run hot, actually get better with age.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 26, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
This might be true...A mere psychological perception cause we guitarists were pre-conditioned to believe that tube amps are supposed to sound good...What if?
Thats a big joke. I have about 15 guitar amps and more than half of them are considered boutique and NONE of them are made in Asia. I don't just believe because I can prove it and I hear it everyday.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 26, 2013, 10:09:08 PM
Ah I thought it was an honest question from the original post asking experiences with tube amps and solid-state. I can see from the line of questioning now that the OP wants to generate a good discussion, with a slight bent on disproving that tube amps automatically sound better.
GC could use another tubes vs SS thread from time to time. All good but excuse me if I stick to tube amps if preference is asked (I guess no one's really asking). BTW, blind listening tests are moot in this case, and the Kia vs Mercedes analogy doesn't really hold water. In my opinion, and your mileage may vary.
Are we looking to psychologiocal tests now for more proof?
I have been using a tube guitar amp since 1989 in fact its still with me ... a Mesa Boogie Studio 22. In my whole life up to today, I probably used a solid state guitar amp for less than 5 total hours the past twenty five years. For me, solid state is just too stiff and harsh. Does not sound right. And worse it fatigues the ear in about 15 minutes something that my tube amps don't do.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jm the mute on September 26, 2013, 10:27:57 PM
Generally, when a solid state amp goes; its gone forever. Unlike tube amps, which can even run hot, actually get better with age.
That's a big IF especially for something with no moving parts and speced higher than what it's rated for. Tube amps break far more oftenthan solid state.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 26, 2013, 10:34:29 PM
Ok not from the point of view of a listener but from actual user guitarist....Do you honestly believe 100% that during a blind test, you can determine a ss amp and a tube amp in an actual test?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 26, 2013, 10:39:23 PM
For me, the best combo is a cranked up tube preamp (easy and cheap using stompboxes) going into a solid state amp. You get the tube sound even if the amp is running at low volumes.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skunkyfunk on September 26, 2013, 10:44:01 PM
For me, the best combo is a cranked up tube preamp (easy and cheap using stompboxes) going into a solid state amp. You get the tube sound even if the amp is running at low volumes.
:-o
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 26, 2013, 10:55:15 PM
It's cheap and light and essentially the same sound. The only advantage a tube amp has is when it's cranked up to 11 and "breaks" warmly. At low volumes solid state and tube are neck to neck. At low volumes preamp gain will matter most.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: mawts_gwaps on September 26, 2013, 10:58:34 PM
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fizz450_03 on September 27, 2013, 12:13:47 AM
from my experience, tube amps sound better than solid states.
solid states do not seem to have that "warmth" that tubes do, and tubes do sound better as they heat up.
comparing a same spec and bracket tube amp with a solid state, the only time the tube will sound bad is when it hadn't heated up yet.
just me and my experience only.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dudeofdude on September 27, 2013, 12:29:26 AM
yes.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skrumian on September 27, 2013, 12:42:16 AM
Generally speaking, tube amps is still way better than solid state amps. Tube amps just shine and can easily cut to the band's mix.
From the audiences' point of view, well most won't care what amps nor effects you are using as long as you sound good (i.e. balanced mix between band members) and play right. A good PA system can do magic.
That is my opinion based on my limited experience.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: samuelfianza on September 27, 2013, 12:48:33 AM
Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
YES!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 27, 2013, 01:41:14 AM
Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
YES!
In what way? Quality wise?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: lolwat on September 27, 2013, 02:21:23 AM
TL; DR
- Solid State Amps "harder" sounding, can sound good for hard rock and metal, with pedals (stock distortion channels usually suck) - Tube Amps "softer" sounding, more pleasant overloading sound when turned up very loud, usually have awesome and dynamic drive channels that react favorably to boosting - I have been able to test both kinds side-by-side and even both on at the same time, and solid states have stronger bass and treble/presence frequencies, while tubes have stronger mid frequencies, when both set to be equal in volume - Volume-wise, 50w tube >>> 100w solid state, although I'm not sure why this is the case (probably because of different speakers) - the human ears are notorious for having the ability to adapt quickly to sound changes even within intervals of seconds, so it's always best to compare equipment, especially amplifiers, side-by-side
-------------
I don't know if it'll help, but I do have both kinds of amps, both gig-worthy in that they are in the 50+ watt range and equipped with 12 inch speakers.
I have a Marshall MG100 combo (SS) and a Laney LC50-II combo (tube), and from time to time I get to play through both of them at the same time for guitar sound reference purposes, e.g. tweaking stomps & effects.
I bet I'd be able to compare them better if it were possible for me to run either into the same cabinet driving the same speaker, but with my current setup some observations can be readily made without going through the option above.
The solid state Marshall is a "harder" sounding amp on its own - the cleans are pretty nice, but as expected the standalone distortion channel isn't the very best, especially when compared to a nice dirt pedal (I'm currently using an MI Audio Tube Zone V4). This described "hardness" can be used to one's advantage especially when playing harder styles of music like metal, where the solid state power amp seems to respond really quickly to palmmutes and percussive techniques. firemodel's observation that solid states can be ear-fatiguing at times isn't completely unfounded, but with judicious use of the controls it is possible to find a more balanced sound that won't take your head off. If I were to choose this amp to play live with I'd recommend using drive pedals in front of the clean channel, instead of sticking to the drive channel, for a better distortion sound.
The tube Laney seems to have a "softer" texture if I were to describe the sound, especially when compared side-by-side with the Marshall. The EQ controls are a little less effective, but this means one can get away with diming every knob and still get cool sounds, which cannot really be said of the Marshall. I tried this on the clean channel once, and got musical feedback and a surprisingly smooth overloading sound - something that the Marshall can never do gracefully at full tilt - although I could only do it for around 30 seconds, and not without earplugs lest I ruin my hearing. The drive channel, while incapable of delivering the same amount of saturation as the Marshall can, is a lot more fun to play with, especially if you run single coils/play using your fingers rather than with a pick. I recently discovered that, with the help of a boost pedal like a Tubescreamer, the Laney can achieve pretty awesome levels of gain, enough for djent and shred, and figured that I'd definitely choose to play gigs this way if I had any active bands and transportation weren't an issue.
Volume-wise, the Laney could easily drown out the Marshall at full tilt, but I rarely dime the amps anyway, even when playing with other musicians. When set to more-or-less equal volume, the Marshall's bass and treble frequencies were more prominent in the mixed signal, while the Laney fills out the mids nicely.
At the end of the day, you should trust your ears, but to be able to trust your ears I recommend you expose them to as many kinds of sounds and equipment as you can first, and it's best if you can compare them side-by-side, as our hearing isn't very reliable in the first place.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ganjie on September 27, 2013, 05:32:01 AM
i'd have to say it depends on what amp... (also on a caveat, all my statements come from a "Classic Rock/Blues" standpoint so please take it with a grain of salt.)
i have a friend that has a beat up vintage yamaha solid state that rocks harder than a few tube amps i've heard/used and this is in a live band setting!
i also have had a few tube amps that just didn't cut it... (don't want to start a war so i won't tell what kind! hahaha..)
amps are like guitars, there's a bit of inconsistency specially the vintage ones whether tube or solid state so i guess it's like guitars also.. there are gems and there are lemons.
so to answer the thread starters question: NO, Tube amps do not necessarily sound better than Solid State amps.
on a personal note though, i prefer tube amps because of simplicity in both circuit and usage.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 27, 2013, 06:17:03 AM
- Volume-wise, 50w tube >>> 100w solid state, although I'm not sure why this is the case (probably because of different speakers) - the human ears are notorious for having the ability to adapt quickly to sound changes even within intervals of seconds, so it's always best to compare equipment, especially amplifiers, side-by-side
About volume, this is what I've found but tube to tube comparison though:
http://www.amptone.com/g112.htm
X% louder = 2^log10(P2/P1) * 100%
40 watts is 94% as loud as 50 watts. 30 watts is 86% as loud as 50 watts. 25 watts is 81% as loud as 50 watts. 22 watts is 78% as loud as 50 watts. 20 watts is 76% as loud as 50 watts. 18 watts is 74% as loud as 50 watts. 15 watts is 70% as loud as 50 watts. 12 watts is 65% as loud as 50 watts. 10 watts is 62% as loud as 50 watts. 9 watts is 60% as loud as 50 watts. 8 watts is 56% as loud as 50 watts. 7 watts is 55% as loud as 50 watts. 6 watts is 53% as loud as 50 watts. 5 watts is 50% as loud as 50 watts. 4 watts is 47% as loud as 50 watts. 3 watts is 43% as loud as 50 watts. 2 watts is 38% as loud as 50 watts. 1 watt is 31% as loud as 50 watts. 3/4 watt is 28% as loud as 50 watts. 1/2 watt is 25% as loud as 50 watts. 1/4 watt is 20% as loud as 50 watts. 1/10 watt is 15% as loud as 50 watts. 50mW is 13% as loud as 50 watts 20mW is 10% as loud as 50 watts. 10mW is 8% as loud as 50 watts. 5mW is 6% as loud as 50 watts. 1mW is 4% as loud as 50 watts. 0.5mW is 3% as loud as 50 watts. 0.1mW is 2% as loud as 50 watts. 50uW is 1.6% as loud as 50 watts. 10uW is 1% as loud as 50 watts.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 27, 2013, 06:42:26 AM
And in live gigs, you rarely crank up the volume anywhere near max (where the tube amp truly shines) anyway. Majority of the time an amp is mic'd and it's the PA system that feeds the crowd. Even in larger venues you will have PA speakers in front of the audience and another set for those at the far end.
During our last gig we used a venue that could pack up to 1000 people and my amp was only at 2.5 and my effects at 2 because it's just effing loud. I've watched a Queen gig (video) where they only used one 30W amp. Same goes with U2.
Point is, majority of the time a 100W amp into a 4x12 stack is overkill. Of the few times where you play in an open field venue where you might want to push it to 11, your sound would have already sucked even before you started so I don't think it really matters.
I'm sure there are differences between solid state and tube as there are differences between a Mesa tube and a Marshall tube. It's a matter of preference (I hate the sound of a dual rectifier). My point remains that it is almost impossible to distinguish a SS vs tube sound...especially at sane volumes.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: emil_murillo on September 27, 2013, 07:10:50 AM
Myth or truth? Can you tell the difference if it will be heard during a blind test?
Tube amps are Class A amplifiers, Analog Circuitry, High-Fidelity (HiFI) Output → in another words "Clear Output Audio Signal" or less distortion.. Although i did come across digital circuitry which incorporates 12AX7 e.g. ART preamps, Korg valvetronix multifx, Digitech preamp rack, etc.. incorporated tube helps compensate a bit of Clearness to the High THD% (total harmonic distortion) of the digital circuitry but still THD is still there.. Pure Class A amplifiers are big and half of the power are wasted.. Clearly not very power efficient But in our age this is how we can come up of a "True-Clear HiFi Sound"
Solid-State Amps has variety → there's Class A amplifiers (mostly old amps), Class C Amplifiers (RF) & Class D amplifiers (Digital) which contains more THD% (total harmonic disrotion) than Class A amplifiers but way more power efficient (both electrical & musical) in a small package..
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: drazenjake on September 27, 2013, 07:27:35 AM
i'll go with solid state amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: emil_murillo on September 27, 2013, 07:53:50 AM
Tube amps are Class A amplifiers, Analog Circuitry, High-Fidelity (HiFI) Output → in another words "Clear Output Audio Signal" or less distortion.. Although i did come across digital circuitry which incorporates 12AX7 e.g. ART preamps, Korg valvetronix multifx, Digitech preamp rack, etc.. incorporated tube helps compensate a bit of Clearness to the High THD% (total harmonic distortion) of the digital circuitry but still THD is still there.. Pure Class A amplifiers are big and half of the power are wasted.. Clearly not very power efficient But in our age this is how we can come up of a "True-Clear HiFi Sound"
Solid-State Amps has variety → there's Class A amplifiers (mostly old amps), Class C Amplifiers (RF) & Class D amplifiers (Digital) which contains more THD% (total harmonic disrotion) than Class A amplifiers but way more power efficient (both electrical & musical) in a small package..
But due to flactuating Electrical Characteristics of tubes → that's why they were design as "Snap-On" not soldered radial or axial pins.. and as a tube amp owner you must have stock of tubes because whenever characteristics gone flactuating, you can snap-out the old tube and snap-on the new tube just like that..
That's why Solid State Amplifiers (Transistors) were invented → small signal, low-power, Class A amplifier variants it has.. Well less superior High Fidelity than tubes of course but if i were to choose → I choose in between ►Hybrid Tube-Solid State Class A amplifier
Good Topic everyone & my respect to every opinion! -Emil Murillo
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 27, 2013, 08:12:36 AM
And in live gigs, you rarely crank up the volume anywhere near max (where the tube amp truly shines) anyway. Majority of the time an amp is mic'd and it's the PA system that feeds the crowd. Even in larger venues you will have PA speakers in front of the audience and another set for those at the far end.
During our last gig we used a venue that could pack up to 1000 people and my amp was only at 2.5 and my effects at 2 because it's just effing loud. I've watched a Queen gig (video) where they only used one 30W amp. Same goes with U2.
Point is, majority of the time a 100W amp into a 4x12 stack is overkill. Of the few times where you play in an open field venue where you might want to push it to 11, your sound would have already sucked even before you started so I don't think it really matters.
I'm sure there are differences between solid state and tube as there are differences between a Mesa tube and a Marshall tube. It's a matter of preference (I hate the sound of a dual rectifier). My point remains that it is almost impossible to distinguish a SS vs tube sound...especially at sane volumes.
Teka there are tube amps that sound great (even master volume models) at low volume beating out solid states. Bakit ang 100watt solid state amp ba ay hindi rin loud? I think the problem is hindi ka pa naka subok ng magandang guitar tube amp na mababa ang loudness.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 27, 2013, 08:13:56 AM
Ok not from the point of view of a listener but from actual user guitarist....Do you honestly believe 100% that during a blind test, you can determine a ss amp and a tube amp in an actual test?
Yes I can.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 27, 2013, 08:16:35 AM
i'd have to say it depends on what amp... (also on a caveat, all my statements come from a "Classic Rock/Blues" standpoint so please take it with a grain of salt.)
i have a friend that has a beat up vintage yamaha solid state that rocks harder than a few tube amps i've heard/used and this is in a live band setting!
i also have had a few tube amps that just didn't cut it... (don't want to start a war so i won't tell what kind! hahaha..)
amps are like guitars, there's a bit of inconsistency specially the vintage ones whether tube or solid state so i guess it's like guitars also.. there are gems and there are lemons.
so to answer the thread starters question: NO, Tube amps do not necessarily sound better than Solid State amps.
on a personal note though, i prefer tube amps because of simplicity in both circuit and usage.
I also have a friend with a beat up solid state yamaha combo who believes that both my cornell and bruno (the best sounding guitar amp he has ever heard according to him) sound superior to the yamaha.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 27, 2013, 08:23:03 AM
Point is, majority of the time a 100W amp into a 4x12 stack is overkill. Of the few times where you play in an open field venue where you might want to push it to 11, your sound would have already sucked even before you started so I don't think it really matters.
Actually, at some point, it isn't about cranking it up in the case highlighted above. Some prefer half stack or full stack because the cabinet does affect the overall output.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 27, 2013, 08:25:45 AM
Teka there are tube amps that sound great (even master volume models) at low volume beating out solid states. Bakit ang 100watt solid state amp ba ay hindi rin loud? I think the problem is hindi ka pa naka subok ng magandang guitar tube amp na mababa ang loudness.
I don't understand your question. Probably because you did not understand my post.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on September 27, 2013, 08:31:11 AM
Depends on:
1) What SS amp vs. what tube amp 2) Volume you are playing at 3) Player preference
And more I think.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 27, 2013, 08:31:45 AM
Actually, at some point, it isn't about cranking it up in the case highlighted above. Some prefer half stack or full stack because the cabinet does affect the overall output.
Well true and I don't see any argument here. It's still a matter of preference. Lugging around a 4x12 is very impractical when a 15W 1x12 combo is more than loud enough for just about any venue.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 27, 2013, 08:36:59 AM
Well true and I don't see any argument here. It's still a matter of preference. Lugging around a 4x12 is very impractical when a 15W 1x12 combo is more than loud enough for just about any venue.
Do you mean an ss amp here?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 27, 2013, 08:37:16 AM
Well true and I don't see any argument here. It's still a matter of preference. Lugging around a 4x12 is very impractical when a 15W 1x12 combo is more than loud enough for just about any venue.
Maski na nga 1 watt guitar tube amp into an efficient 1x12 cabinet is loud enough for just about any venue. But if you are looking for tightness and spatial expansion; a 4x12 will beat out a farty 1x12 cabinet.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 27, 2013, 08:42:40 AM
On the other hand, you may think its psychological because you cannot hear what other people hear and feel. I did not mean that as an insult... its just we may not hear and feel things in the same way as individuals.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on September 27, 2013, 08:55:24 AM
My preference: I'm after of the output tube sound.Solidstate preamp with tube power amp much much better than tube preamp with solidstate power amp. Based on my actual amps, not from research or youtube demos.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 27, 2013, 08:56:45 AM
My preference: I'm after of the output tube sound.Solidstate preamp with tube power amp much much better than tube preamp with solidstate power amp. Based on my actual amps, not from research or youtube demos.
OT: schematics please? :-D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: FollowTheReaper on September 27, 2013, 09:23:43 AM
there are times i prefer my tube amp over my SS amp.. and there are times it's the other way around. i love both of my amps and to me they both sound great. depends on my mood, i guess :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skrumian on September 27, 2013, 09:30:32 AM
Di ko alam kung bakit kelangan pa makipagdiskuyunan at ipagtanggol ang opinyon? Di ba preference mo na yan? :?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: FollowTheReaper on September 27, 2013, 09:35:27 AM
Di ko alam kung bakit kelangan pa makipagdiskuyunan at ipagtanggol ang opinyon? Di ba preference mo na yan? :?
i think they're trying to arrive at a quantifiable basis as to why tube amps sound better than solid states (or the other way around) in general. but yeah it is mostly personal preference although i think it is a healthy discussion (so far)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on September 27, 2013, 10:46:51 AM
Goldea AT-30 lang talaga ang na-try ko honestly. :lol: But IMHO, "better" sounding ang Goldea kesa sa Bandit ko in terms of clean sound. Sa dirt using SH, "better" naman ang Bandit. Ayan lang. Probinsyano lang ako na namumuhay sa bukid. :wave:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 27, 2013, 11:07:51 AM
It would be nice if a guitarist is blindfolded and his guitar is routed to a tube and solid state amp and then see if he can "feel" which one is which :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: toybitz on September 27, 2013, 11:15:45 AM
imho, it depends on your taste...
but dig this, solid state amps try to emulate the sound of tube amps. 8)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 27, 2013, 11:55:49 AM
It would be nice if a guitarist is blindfolded and his guitar is routed to a tube and solid state amp and then see if he can "feel" which one is which :)
I think there's a video in youtube comparing a JCM900 vs. an MG100. If you're used to listening both, then you can distinguish them aurally even on a blind test.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: batang80s on September 27, 2013, 12:31:55 PM
Don't rely 100% on youtube demos. It compresses the audio too much. Not to mention the speakers/headphones you're using, will also affect it.
I'm with FM55, it has to be seen and heard. There are good SS out there, but I prefer tubes. A lot of SS/digital hybrid amps simulates how a tube behaves. Even all these Kempler, Axe FX etc-etc, they all copy what a good tube amp sounds.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 27, 2013, 03:07:07 PM
This is interesting. Although I'm trying to be in the market for a good tube amp nowadays, it seems there is really no clear cut answer as to why a tube amp should sound better than a ss...Preference wise, if one can't really distinguish between a tube and a ss aurally and as a guitarist user, then it just boils down on how much time you would are willing spend time in amp maintenance and forget about which one really do sound better cause both of them are still relevant at present...If we were to believe that tube amps really do sound better then many of us would say that "it just boils down to ones preference", then we can safely say that buying a good tube amp should be taken in a "proceed at your own risk" kinda perspective...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: juwanfidle09 on September 27, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
walang mas maganda kasi pangit pareho at panis pa din sila sa karaoke. :lol:
seriously speaking, personal preference na rin talaga ang usapan dito. maraming factors talaga yung dapat iconsider tulad ng sinabi ni shredmaestrobri :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jehed on September 27, 2013, 04:11:42 PM
Kawawa naman mga SS... But to/not to answer your question- There's a LOT of factors to consider on assessing which is better, not just "tube"-"solid state". I prefered an SS over a tube for my purchase once.. AND, I've been gigging and recording with my Randall RG1503 for a couple of months and it has been amazing everytime! I recommend it!!
Butt.. Would I trade my SS RG1503 to a Tube Randall Satan or 'some-other-tube-amp-that-im-in-favor-but-too-many-to-mention' if asked? Well... YES!!!
Lets not discourage our fellow musicians that their SS sounds like [gooey brown stuff] or they will never sound as good as the ones playing with tubes.. Kasi baka yun lang talaga ang kaya at the moment... Sabi nga nila.. Wala sa pana yan- nasa Indian!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 27, 2013, 04:37:12 PM
For me, it all boils down to being practical. If you can't bring it to a gig then what's the point? If I have a roady and a van then a 100W Marshall AFD is fine. But I only have myself and a sedan so my Behringer GMX212 is fair game because it fits in the trunk and sounds like a real Marshall. After I broke my right leg, 2x12 is getting too heavy so I opted for a Peavey Bandit 112. It still sounds like a real tube amp. I have no complaints so far. If I sound [gooey brown stuff] then there is nothing to blame but myself. It would be a very different story though if you still sound [gooey brown stuff] in a real Marshall tube LOL!!!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: r_chino18 on September 27, 2013, 04:52:26 PM
Kawawa naman mga SS... But to/not to answer your question- There's a LOT of factors to consider on assessing which is better, not just "tube"-"solid state". I prefered an SS over a tube for my purchase once.. AND, I've been gigging and recording with my Randall RG1503 for a couple of months and it has been amazing everytime! I recommend it!! Butt.. Would I trade my SS RG1503 to a Tube Randall Satan or 'some-other-tube-amp-that-im-in-favor-but-too-many-to-mention' if asked? Well... YES!!! Lets not discourage our fellow musicians that their SS sounds like [gooey brown stuff] or they will never sound as good as the ones playing with tubes.. Kasi baka yun lang talaga ang kaya at the moment... Sabi nga nila.. Wala sa pana yan- nasa Indian!
Bro, honestly, when I heard you play thru your RG1503 with my 2x12 at Mike's place, I swear I liked the tone. I was surprised to know that it was a solid state amp. For the stuff you play, it kills. :mrgreen:
Now I'm not saying that it's better than a tube amp. But hey, for the price you got everything, I don't think any high gain tube amp on the same price range (if there's any) would sound as good as your rig.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jehed on September 27, 2013, 05:25:54 PM
WOW!!! Pero it won't sound the same without your custom 2x12 pareng chino. I'm very happy with the randall+the-cab-you-built combo so thats why im still thankful!! Will share you a demo once were done ah? hehehe!
Bro, honestly, when I heard you play thru your RG1503 with my 2x12 at Mike's place, I swear I liked the tone. I was surprised to know that it was a solid state amp. For the stuff you play, it kills. :mrgreen:
Now I'm not saying that it's better than a tube amp. But hey, for the price you got everything, I don't think any high gain tube amp on the same price range (if there's any) would sound as good as your rig.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: youthanasia on September 27, 2013, 05:26:14 PM
Jist depends on what type of sound you're looking for. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: r_chino18 on September 27, 2013, 09:03:30 PM
WOW!!! Pero it won't sound the same without your custom 2x12 pareng chino. I'm very happy with the randall+the-cab-you-built combo so thats why im still thankful!! Will share you a demo once were done ah? hehehe!
Jist depends on what type of sound you're looking for. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges.
True.
Marshall MG50 drive channel (even if it sucks) will sound better than a 70s silverface Fender Twin Reverb with the master volume pulled for drive. Hehe.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 27, 2013, 09:10:33 PM
Kawawa naman mga SS... But to/not to answer your question- There's a LOT of factors to consider on assessing which is better, not just "tube"-"solid state". I prefered an SS over a tube for my purchase once.. AND, I've been gigging and recording with my Randall RG1503 for a couple of months and it has been amazing everytime! I recommend it!!
Butt.. Would I trade my SS RG1503 to a Tube Randall Satan or 'some-other-tube-amp-that-im-in-favor-but-too-many-to-mention' if asked? Well... YES!!!
Lets not discourage our fellow musicians that their SS sounds like [gooey brown stuff] or they will never sound as good as the ones playing with tubes.. Kasi baka yun lang talaga ang kaya at the moment... Sabi nga nila.. Wala sa pana yan- nasa Indian!
Kaso napatay ng mga cowboy ang mga Indian gamit ng single action Colt revolver! Heh Heh. I do agree with you that fellow musicians can and will use their SS but at some point they have to upgrade to something better. And guitar tube amps are superior to solid state amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: bryanarzaga on September 27, 2013, 09:23:09 PM
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 27, 2013, 10:13:07 PM
This...
:-D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maximus0fficial on September 27, 2013, 10:20:44 PM
tube adds saturation to the signal
mas maganda tlaga tubo
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: blackgino77 on September 28, 2013, 12:52:55 AM
This is a nice read; http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/cage-match-tubes-vs-solid-state-modeling/ (http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/cage-match-tubes-vs-solid-state-modeling/)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: acidtest on September 28, 2013, 03:53:03 AM
I'll go for the Roland any day on those two. Maybe it's just me, (and off topic) but I think the better question would be, 'If the amp is good, do you really care if it's tube or not?'
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on September 28, 2013, 05:40:21 AM
I'd gig or tour with a good and reliable brand of solid state amp no problem. Mahirap na mag crap out ang tube in the middle of nowhere at mabigat din tube amps. pero kung may mga roadies, durable cases and reliable transpo, id take a tube amp in a snap.
solid states are spartan, though.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on September 28, 2013, 05:50:24 AM
I'd take a tube preamp and run it into two ZT Clubs if I had to tour.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on September 28, 2013, 06:17:04 AM
Not necessarily true because some of my fuzz boxes sound sweeter with the ZT Lunchbox Jr than the Fender Tweed.
If I wasn't happy with the solid state, it probably got sold a week after the buy. It's good to have options.
I also had a chance to try a ZT Club and I think they are awesome, awesome amps. Pakiramdam ko nagvvibrate talaga nya yung air around the amp when it plays. You get that big sound. Specially liked it more when Saturn/Return was playing through it with his sweet Les Paul Studio, and when we got to try the BeeBaa on it. Wall of sound.
Sh*t I gotta look for a cheap one on the ads.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on September 28, 2013, 06:47:05 AM
I second that ZT Club! It also sounds good when connected to external cabs with its speakers also in operation. Takes pedals well in front and its power amp is also clean and responsive it takes well to modelers or pre amp pedals.
I'd be happy with a ZT Club rig and a Randall rig.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: bryanarzaga on September 28, 2013, 07:09:23 AM
i own a jc120 and have tried the kustom defender 5watter, i would pick the roland any day,
i really dont know what the selling point of the defender 5 watter, cleans were not decent sounding, the head was plug through a used blackstar 8 cab, i returned the unit to musicgoround the next day..i was at some point into lower wattage amps around the 5-15 watt, i tried all i could find and blackstar / e-wave / bugera at those times had amps that deliver good cleans
I'll go for the Roland any day on those two. Maybe it's just me, (and off topic) but I think the better question would be, 'If the amp is good, do you really care if it's tube or not?'
exactly..let your ears be the judge of tone, not your eyes...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 28, 2013, 07:28:08 AM
i own a jc120 and have tried the kustom defender 5watter, i would pick the roland any day,
i really dont know what the selling point of the defender 5 watter, cleans were not decent sounding, the head was plug through a used blackstar 8 cab, i returned the unit to musicgoround the next day..i was at some point into lower wattage amps around the 5-15 watt, i tried all i could find and blackstar / e-wave / bugera at those times had amps that deliver good cleans
exactly..let your ears be the judge of tone, not your eyes...
Right. I remembered when it was my first time to actually plug into a 4x12 with a Fender head. I forgot the exact model. We were recording a metal song that time and I was having hard time making my tone heavy even using it with a pedal. I ended up plugging into a beaten up Roland cube 60 and man, it was good.
This sums up then that at both worlds, extremes do also exist.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 28, 2013, 09:42:28 AM
Right. I remembered when it was my first time to actually plug into a 4x12 with a Fender head. I forgot the exact model. We were recording a metal song that time and I was having hard time making my tone heavy even using it with a pedal. I ended up plugging into a beaten up Roland cube 60 and man, it was good.
This sums up then that at both worlds, extremes do also exist.
I think you should have plugged into a Marshall instead of a Fender if you wanted metal.... :(
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Rmansh on September 28, 2013, 10:38:38 AM
I would pick my Super 100 over the roland and the Kustom. The Roland lifeless cleans cannot in any way compete with Cleans of the Super 100 which are big, dynamic, round and pleasing to the ear. And of course, the Bruno's overdrive just blows away the roland's anemic overdrive. On the other hand, the Kustom still looks like a better looking piece of decor than the JC120 though.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: cayle on September 28, 2013, 10:57:00 AM
Not the best vid, but you get the point. :wave:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on September 28, 2013, 11:14:52 AM
the question is do tube amps really SOUND better than solid state....hindi kung ano mas madaling dalhin, mas mura.....HMPFT
And the response is, it's a matter of preference. Not all tube amps sound good and in a lot of cases solid state may sound better. So if they are indistinguishable in terms of sound then practicality obviously becomes a factor ... a much bigger factor than sound because honestly, very few guitarists can make a good amp sound good.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: bryanarzaga on September 28, 2013, 12:32:42 PM
I would pick my Super 100 over the roland and the Kustom. The Roland lifeless cleans cannot in any way compete with Cleans of the Super 100 which are big, dynamic, round and pleasing to the ear. And of course, the Bruno's overdrive just blows away the roland's anemic overdrive. On the other hand, the Kustom still looks like a better looking piece of decor than the JC120 though.
is it even a fair comparison between a bruno and the roland? probably not.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on September 28, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
Walang katapusan itong debate na ito, just name your favorite/idol guitarist with good guitar tone using tube amps vs solidstate amps kung alin mas marami.Dapat may song example for each guitarist para mapakinggan natin good tone ba talaga.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: DiMarzSiao™ on September 28, 2013, 12:46:51 PM
Walang katapusan itong debate na ito, just name your favorite/idol guitarist with good guitar tone using tube amps vs solidstate amps kung alin mas marami.Dapat may song example for each guitarist para mapakinggan natin good tone ba talaga.
preference pa rin ang common denominator nyan.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on September 28, 2013, 12:58:21 PM
At least malalaman nating yung reasons bakit pinu push ng user yung tube amp or solidstate amp.Maliwanagan tayu bakit patay na patay sya for example ng solidstate kaya pala idol nya si dimebag,robert fripp,etc. or tube amp dahil idol nya si vh,etc. So yan ang preference kung anu trip nya na music or guitarist.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 28, 2013, 04:27:10 PM
Walang katapusan itong debate na ito, just name your favorite/idol guitarist with good guitar tone using tube amps vs solidstate amps kung alin mas marami.Dapat may song example for each guitarist para mapakinggan natin good tone ba talaga.
Does not make any sense because now you are listening to the preferences of the artists plus the fact that the sound was a product of a STUDIO RECORDING which may have gone through digital processing.
And this leads to even more ambiguity between analog tube sound and digital modeling. A lot of albums now are recorded digitally which kinda negates the perceived advantages of an all analog tube sound. It's like shooting negative film then scanning so you can post in facebook. Big duh?!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jm the mute on September 28, 2013, 06:22:47 PM
Kung papipiliin ka ng amp na ibibigay sayo ng libre. Example: vox ac30 or roland jc120? Ano pipiliin mo?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 28, 2013, 06:57:00 PM
Kung papipiliin ka ng amp na ibibigay sayo ng libre. Example: vox ac30 or roland jc120? Ano pipiliin mo?
Hmmmm, this is hard....If it is the original 60's AC30 top boost, I would pick that one without me blinking over the Roland...I don't care if the Roland sounds better cause the Vox is expensive..... :-D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on September 28, 2013, 07:00:02 PM
I think many of us here would be frustrated if an actual blind test was done...Imagine many of us here choosing a Roland Chorus over a 3000 dollar Matchlesss... :-P
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: iceblink-luck on September 28, 2013, 07:10:26 PM
i prefer tube amps, it sounds warm
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 28, 2013, 08:03:06 PM
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on September 28, 2013, 10:06:55 PM
depende talaga sa exposure ng tao. we are limited by our minds and experience.
i guess the simplest way to do it, is choose an amp that is within your budget and make sure it sounds better than your current amp. if you need to borrow from friends to make sure it is indeed a good amp then do so. mass produced amps are like pedals, imho, they do not sound a like pag pinagtabi tabi mo ang same model/unit.
a friend of mine put together a handful of deluxe reverbs (modern) and they didn't sound alike. only one stood out.
of course a good amp will depend on how good the guitar is.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on September 29, 2013, 08:31:56 AM
I think many of us here would be frustrated if an actual blind test was done...Imagine many of us here choosing a Roland Chorus over a 3000 dollar Matchlesss... :-P
I'd ask Mike himself from Matchless to make me an amp that suits my playing and the guitar I use so only the best aspects of my playing and overall sound shine through.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: kevsvalderrama on September 29, 2013, 01:58:48 PM
well tube-amp para sa akin, dahil sa warm tone, ung natural overdrive at ung response.. Pero ok din ung mga modeling solid state.. halos nagagaya na nila ung feel ng tube amps..
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ganjie on September 29, 2013, 09:55:26 PM
I also have a friend with a beat up solid state yamaha combo who believes that both my cornell and bruno (the best sounding guitar amp he has ever heard according to him) sound superior to the yamaha.
well, as with everything there will always be something better BUT if it works, it works!
cornell, fender, bruno, marshall, matchless, etc.. it'll all have it's compromises and strongpoints and depending on the player/listener's preferences/mileage it WILL be the best sounding amp during the time that it's the best sounding amp up until this same player hears or gets to play through something else that would make the same impression.
so still on the Threadstarter's question, it all depends on what your looking for and what your current tone preferences are.
i still prefer tube amps in the 15-30watt range for their ease of use and breakup tone.
but given anyday that there's only a good solid state available, i wouldn't mind playing through it.
it's not the gear, it's the music! :razz:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 29, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
well, as with everything there will always be something better BUT if it works, it works!
(it works if it does not sound bad enough to drive your audience away. Unfortunately there is a minimum standard that your equipment has to meet.)
cornell, fender, bruno, marshall, matchless, etc.. it'll all have it's compromises and strongpoints and depending on the player/listener's preferences/mileage it WILL be the best sounding amp during the time that it's the best sounding amp up until this same player hears or gets to play through something else that would make the same impression. (I think there is just one compromise and only one strongpoint and that is the feel and sound of the amp. Preferences is a flimsy excuse to justfy the current budget. As you mentioned, the music is the factor that counts. And music does not choose weight or portability, aesthetics, color, etc. But it does choose tubes. :) )
so still on the Threadstarter's question, it all depends on what your looking for and what your current tone preferences are.
i still prefer tube amps in the 15-30watt range for their ease of use and breakup tone.
(I would not call a 33 watt AC30, which I have, easy to use and break up. Its loud. So was the George Lynch 30 watt Trainwreck plugged into a circa 1968 Marshall 4x12 cabinet that I tried. These are both non-master volume amps powered by EL84s that I would not even recommend for club use due to their loudness.)
but given anyday that there's only a good solid state available, i wouldn't mind playing through it.
it's not the gear, it's the music! :razz:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Al Nico Five on September 29, 2013, 11:20:11 PM
well, as with everything there will always be something better BUT if it works, it works!
cornell, fender, bruno, marshall, matchless, etc.. it'll all have it's compromises and strongpoints and depending on the player/listener's preferences/mileage it WILL be the best sounding amp during the time that it's the best sounding amp up until this same player hears or gets to play through something else that would make the same impression.
so still on the Threadstarter's question, it all depends on what your looking for and what your current tone preferences are.
i still prefer tube amps in the 15-30watt range for their ease of use and breakup tone.
but given anyday that there's only a good solid state available, i wouldn't mind playing through it. it's not the gear, it's the music! :razz:
mismo to! pero para sa gear head the sad reality is that it's actually the other way around:
it's not the music, it's the gear that matters.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 30, 2013, 11:19:44 AM
mismo to! pero para sa gear head the sad reality is that it's actually the other way around:
it's not the music, it's the gear that matters.
that is such a cliche... na saan ang so called music na pinagmamalaki ng lahat? Just because one pieces up a song from notes and chords does NOT mean its music.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on September 30, 2013, 01:08:13 PM
i didn't get this because it's solid state. all tube amps can beat this simple solid state.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: CeL1916 on September 30, 2013, 01:33:59 PM
May panget bang tube amp? Hindi pinakapanget na tube amp ha, pero yung talagang panget hindi mo papangaraping gamitin, kase base sa mg reviews madalas you cant go wrong with a "tube amp" parang lahat tolerable, tama ba?
So baka yun ang sagot, pwedeng not all tube amps are better than SS amp, pero all tube amps are consistent? :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: TagaRetiro on September 30, 2013, 01:58:37 PM
May panget bang tube amp? Hindi pinakapanget na tube amp ha, pero yung talagang panget hindi mo papangaraping gamitin, kase base sa mg reviews madalas you cant go wrong with a "tube amp" parang lahat tolerable, tama ba?
So baka yun ang sagot, pwedeng not all tube amps are better than SS amp, pero all tube amps are consistent? :)
Parang may nakita na kong thread dati tungkol sa mga pangit na tube amp.
I think to this thread needs some kind of benchmark or standard on how they can conclude which one would be better. What are the characteristics of a good amp (whether it's tube or not)? Maybe we can go from there :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on September 30, 2013, 02:14:50 PM
Isn't it because tube amps didn't sound right that they made solid state amps in the first place. But then just like new technologies that needed to grow, people thought that SS was crap and the stigma persisted even to the present.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ryechua on September 30, 2013, 02:20:04 PM
Isn't it because tube amps didn't sound right that they made solid state amps in the first place. But then just like new technologies that needed to grow, people thought that SS was crap and the stigma persisted even to the present.
Dont get me wrong... solid state has uses in high fidelity. In fact, solid state amps can be more expensive than tube amps but the level of quality is really at high at around anything from P300k and up for a mono block solid state amp.
But for guitar, tubes are the way to go unlike in high fidelity where there is a preference.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on September 30, 2013, 03:12:08 PM
Parang may nakita na kong thread dati tungkol sa mga pangit na tube amp.
I think to this thread needs some kind of benchmark or standard on how they can conclude which one would be better. What are the characteristics of a good amp (whether it's tube or not)? Maybe we can go from there :)
I think you can start off with the known and recognized vintage tube amps by fender, marshall, hiwatt, matamp/orange and others as the standard or benchmark. Universally, a majority of guitarists who are successful are using these old vintage tube amps. Kaya ka lang naman naghahanap ng standard dahil sa lahat na cheap na solid state amps na benta dito sa Pinas. Otherwise, in other countries with income; walang question sa standard or benchmark.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: TagaRetiro on September 30, 2013, 04:50:33 PM
My bad man, wasn't able to properly word what I want to say. What I meant was factors that make a great amp.
I did not mean that you had low standards. I am just saying that thats why we are looking for what factors make a great amp is because of the crap guitar amps that local stores offer here.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on September 30, 2013, 09:15:45 PM
i've always been cheap with guitar gear ... and i have always played on cheap solid state amps on bars and rehearsal studios.
then i got myself a cheap Fender Hotrod Deluxe - i know its expensive, but still, i think this one falls in the "budget tube amp" category, and wow!!! my dirt pedals sounded alive! they breathe and react to my playing
oh i have to say that i only use the clean channel of the amp, cause i am a pedal head, and i do not want my investment to go to waste. i did try the dirt channel though, and i find it pretty generic, not as terrible as cheap solid state distortion or cheap pedal distortion, theres really just nothing special with it.
that alone has convinced me that tube amps are better at the price point i am playing in ...
however, i do admit, i am curious what a tube amp with useable dirt channel would sound like ... im thinking of getting a mesa boogie dual rectifier combo in the future. i will only spend on combos ... half stacks are just too impractical for the gigs i play.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: kingthomas on October 01, 2013, 09:14:08 AM
i've always been cheap with guitar gear ... and i have always played on cheap solid state amps on bars and rehearsal studios.
then i got myself a cheap Fender Hotrod Deluxe - i know its expensive, but still, i think this one falls in the "budget tube amp" category, and wow!!! my dirt pedals sounded alive! they breathe and react to my playing
oh i have to say that i only use the clean channel of the amp, cause i am a pedal head, and i do not want my investment to go to waste. i did try the dirt channel though, and i find it pretty generic, not as terrible as cheap solid state distortion or cheap pedal distortion, theres really just nothing special with it.
that alone has convinced me that tube amps are better at the price point i am playing in ...
however, i do admit, i am curious what a tube amp with useable dirt channel would sound like ... im thinking of getting a mesa boogie dual rectifier combo in the future. i will only spend on combos ... half stacks are just too impractical for the gigs i play.
dual rectifier combos weigh around 80 - 100 pounds. yun yung pinaka-abundant used amp for sale sa Guitar Center website :lol: mukang rectoverb hanap niyo kung gusto niyo talaga ng rectifier combo. they weigh around 60-70 pounds i think. still heavy, but that's better than 100 pounds :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: iceblink-luck on October 01, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
i've always been cheap with guitar gear ... and i have always played on cheap solid state amps on bars and rehearsal studios.
then i got myself a cheap Fender Hotrod Deluxe - i know its expensive, but still, i think this one falls in the "budget tube amp" category, and wow!!! my dirt pedals sounded alive! they breathe and react to my playing
oh i have to say that i only use the clean channel of the amp, cause i am a pedal head, and i do not want my investment to go to waste. i did try the dirt channel though, and i find it pretty generic, not as terrible as cheap solid state distortion or cheap pedal distortion, theres really just nothing special with it.
that alone has convinced me that tube amps are better at the price point i am playing in ...
however, i do admit, i am curious what a tube amp with useable dirt channel would sound like ... im thinking of getting a mesa boogie dual rectifier combo in the future. i will only spend on combos ... half stacks are just too impractical for the gigs i play.
i can relate to that just got also a deluxe hot rod. its my first tube amp combo, really please me .. i can appreciate the sound of a ds1 and other dirt pedals
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on October 01, 2013, 08:32:18 PM
dual rectifier combos weigh around 80 - 100 pounds. yun yung pinaka-abundant used amp for sale sa Guitar Center website :lol: mukang rectoverb hanap niyo kung gusto niyo talaga ng rectifier combo. they weigh around 60-70 pounds i think. still heavy, but that's better than 100 pounds :lol:
WTF 100 lbs?!?! damn... i am sticking to my fender hotrod deluxe forever!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: kingthomas on October 01, 2013, 11:43:51 PM
WTF 100 lbs?!?! damn... i am sticking to my fender hotrod deluxe forever!
really heavy but a mesa boogie's distortion is like no other. you can get a head version na lang i guess. :) even the 1x12 Mark V combo alone weighs around 70-80 pounds din. :lol: backbreakers talaga mga mesa boogie combos that's why they all come with wheels. :lol: but the heads are more manageable at around 40 pounds. :)
i'd like a mesa boogie head myself (a used mark IV is all I can afford), GAS goal ko yun for 2014. :razz: :cute:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on October 02, 2013, 06:19:51 AM
How does everyone feel about amps like the Kemper or the AMT Stonehead?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 02, 2013, 10:12:50 AM
Just play a few and youll feel the difference.
Im of the opinion that a good majority of tube amps sound ad feel better than the SS counterparts. There are some great SS amps / preamps out there but theres still nothing like a tube amp at its sweet spot. Its really not the same. Its almost like eating brown rice vs white rice. Brown rice gets the job done ... but man when you have your kare kare or bulalo with white rice... iba parin yung white rice.
Lol
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: magtataho7 on October 02, 2013, 10:16:03 AM
depends on the application...lol
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 02, 2013, 10:28:49 AM
Im of the opinion that a good majority of tube amps sound ad feel better than the SS counterparts. There are some great SS amps / preamps out there but theres still nothing like a tube amp at its sweet spot. Its really not the same. Its almost like eating brown rice vs white rice. Brown rice gets the job done ... but man when you have your kare kare or bulalo with white rice... iba parin yung white rice.
Lol
Ginutom ako dito ah... :drool:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 02, 2013, 11:26:38 AM
Im of the opinion that a good majority of tube amps sound ad feel better than the SS counterparts. There are some great SS amps / preamps out there but theres still nothing like a tube amp at its sweet spot. Its really not the same. Its almost like eating brown rice vs white rice. Brown rice gets the job done ... but man when you have your kare kare or bulalo with white rice... iba parin yung white rice.
Lol
best association i've read so far. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: DiMarzSiao™ on October 02, 2013, 11:43:11 AM
Im of the opinion that a good majority of tube amps sound ad feel better than the SS counterparts. There are some great SS amps / preamps out there but theres still nothing like a tube amp at its sweet spot. Its really not the same. Its almost like eating brown rice vs white rice. Brown rice gets the job done ... but man when you have your kare kare or bulalo with white rice... iba parin yung white rice.
BTT: Soon I'd be getting my very first tube amp. Once I got to experience playing and tweaking it myself, then I think I can tell if they really sound better than a SS. Though para sakin ngayon, talagang mas maganda ang tube 'in general' than SS 'in general'.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 02, 2013, 03:02:26 PM
So a tube amp is waaaaaay better even if the SS amp is using a transtube technology"?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 02, 2013, 04:58:55 PM
So a tube amp is waaaaaay better even if the SS amp is using a transtube technology"?
Its not even close. Transtube is a joke.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: inexperience on October 02, 2013, 04:59:28 PM
Cleans to slight breakup masarap talaga pakinggan ang tube amp, lalo na sa single coils(strat) its like hearing a bell rang in live.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on October 02, 2013, 09:13:48 PM
At low gain/clean, you probably can't hear the difference but not when cracked. Solid state amps produce sharp waveforms (hard clipping) that can be irritating to the ears. Tube amps, on the other hand, produce softly rounded waveforms that are more pleasing to the ears.
Easy to test. Punta ka sa music store and crank a solid state amp. Then crank a tube amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on October 02, 2013, 09:40:47 PM
It's all in the power amp stage the tube shines.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 02, 2013, 09:49:37 PM
Eh mas mahal pa yan sa ibang tube amps sa local music stores eh! :-D
Hahahaha! Quoted for truth!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: arkeetar on October 03, 2013, 06:28:52 AM
kakana ako ng ethos over blues junior pag ako nagkaroon ng pagkakataon hahaha >:D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on October 03, 2013, 06:49:23 AM
Naalala ko nung nanuod ako ng demo ng Ethos sa youtube. Sa sobrang ganda ng tunog ng drive nya, nung merong sumipot for sale eh kinontak ko na kaagad. Sadly di natuloy... :-(
Pero, ethos pedal lang sya connected to a tweed amp. Di ko pa alam na merong Ethos na mismong amp. Kaya ano ba? Panlaban na ba sa tube amp? hehe... Sigurado naman maganda din tunog nya pero yung feel nya over tube amp? Sana makatest minsan. :razz:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 03, 2013, 07:30:52 AM
Correct. At what volume do you play your tube amps?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Autoplay2009 on October 03, 2013, 08:28:03 AM
I have used a Peavey Bandit 112 a gazillion times both in the studio and in gigs. I'm only using the clean channels as I rely heavily on my pedals. I usually add reverb around 4 to 6-ish too.
In my ears, this amp sounds good at lower volumes. Once you get past 4 on the volume knob though, the sounds you get tend to be upleasantly brittle and loses that low end too.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on October 03, 2013, 08:36:45 AM
It's not about volume level setting, it's the sound pressure and tone that i'm hearing is more important when i play.I set my volume by ear, not by number and different volume level setting for each amp to get my desired sound. As i've said before that all my opinion here were based on my own amps.Don't have tube amp louder than 20w and solidstate amp louder than 30w.I have both and i prefer tube.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 03, 2013, 10:22:46 AM
It's not about volume level setting, it's the sound pressure and tone that i'm hearing is more important when i play.I set my volume by ear, not by number and different volume level setting for each amp to get my desired sound. As i've said before that all my opinion here were based on my own amps.Don't have tube amp louder than 20w and solidstate amp louder than 30w.I have both and i prefer tube.
if you set your volume level by ear, then that drummer is gonna drown you
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on October 03, 2013, 11:17:01 AM
peavey sells transtube amps ... peavey proves transtube amps are awesome, thru multiple blind tests where they control all of the factors, and pick who is going to be on it
it makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 03, 2013, 11:18:01 AM
They probably have better ears than me and the audience probably cant tell the difference but I can feel the difference. Its a response sag thing. Its different... play a few and experience it for yourself. Ive been lucky to blast alot of amps on stages and play alot of guitars... theres a reason the big boys still produce tube amps and not all solid state. Theres also a reason why peavey is a 2nd liner brand and not a boogie/marshal/fender level brand. Dont say its just "tube" marketing, just look at what the pros are playing and that such expensive amps still exist.
If theres smoke theres fire... and believe me, there is a fire. (And i dont se any pros playing transtube)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 03, 2013, 11:21:38 AM
peavey sells transtube amps ... peavey proves transtube amps are awesome, thru multiple blind tests where they control all of the factors, and pick who is going to be on it
it makes a lot of sense.
not necessarily biased since the sound engineers they invited are allegedly not from Peavey.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on October 03, 2013, 11:36:21 AM
not necessarily biased since the sound engineers they invited are allegedly not from Peavey.
its as credible as toothpaste's "8 out 10 dentists" ads
-*-
not dissing transtube. hell, i would get a transtube if it sounded ok to me, i have a very shallow taste in tone - if it works in a live gig, does not cost as much as my bass amp, and i can carry it 3 floors up our house with a smile, then its a good amp!
i just know marketing BS when i see it.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: glassjaw_jc on October 03, 2013, 11:39:56 AM
You'll definitely love it then. :) It's the most pedal friendly SS amp I've played through and it's lighter than a comparable tube amp
not dissing transtube. hell, i would get a transtube if it sounded ok to me, i have a very shallow taste in tone - if it works in a live gig, and i can carry it 3 floors up our house, then its a good amp!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: techbp on October 03, 2013, 11:40:41 AM
I have a shallow knowledge about the topic but I have an experience to share.
I'm not a pro in guitar playing and nothing special with my array of gear since day 1.
SS amps and modeling amps palagi ang nagagamit ko. Not bad! I mean, nabibigay naman niya yung sound na gusto ko. I owned several SS amps narin and I only have 2 of those na lang ngayon
Until one day... (last month)
A 100-watt tube amp came home and I played with it! DAMN!!!! Ayoko na itigil! Ang sarap sa tenga and mas lalo ako nagaganahan mag gitara, parang ang galing ko!
In short... Tube amp wins! Hehe .. at least sa experience ko ha :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 03, 2013, 11:42:15 AM
A 100watts tube amp came home and I played with it! DAMN!!!! Ayoko na itigil! Ang sarap sa tenga and mas lalo ako nagaganahan mag gitara, parang ang galing ko!
In short... Tube amp wins! Hehe .. at least sa experience ko ha :)
a 100-watt tube amp cannot be properly appreciated if played only at home. dapat with friends. :wave:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: techbp on October 03, 2013, 11:44:27 AM
You'll definitely love it then. :) It's the most pedal friendly SS amp I've played through and it's lighter than a comparable tube amp
if it wins against my Fender Hotrod Deluxe, the ads would be seeing a really cheap tube amp for sale lol
-*-
im also a believer in playing amps in a band setting before saying its good, but then again, it is really really hard to sound bad on a tube amp. i dont know about the Fender Bassman (which was designed for bass), but a guitar tube amp is very decent, even the crappy made in korea ADI's
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 03, 2013, 11:50:04 AM
are you saying that tube amps are expensive due mainly to marketing?
Same question here...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: glassjaw_jc on October 03, 2013, 12:09:09 PM
In the weight department? I think it would. I had a 50watt Hi-Watt tube amp before. Effin' back breaker. :-D Really nice clean sound though. The drive channel sounds like a typical Hi-Watt. Sounds good with a bass though especially if you split the signal with your clean going to a bass amp. Sounds big! You should try it with your Hotrod
if you set your volume level by ear, then that drummer is gonna drown you
What difference does it make?Does that mean i will set my level by ear without the drums? Playing alone or band all same set by ear and of course the two situations have different volume levels if i will check my amp volume settings.Dont have preset vol settings, all set according to lots of paramenters(room,playing alone/band)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: bryanarzaga on October 03, 2013, 12:51:47 PM
Im of the opinion that a good majority of tube amps sound ad feel better than the SS counterparts. There are some great SS amps / preamps out there but theres still nothing like a tube amp at its sweet spot. Its really not the same. Its almost like eating brown rice vs white rice. Brown rice gets the job done ... but man when you have your kare kare or bulalo with white rice... iba parin yung white rice.
Lol
i like the rice analogy...and its true,
while what firemodel's counter example to mine was slightly unexpected but whatever
anyway..
yes i like my own tube amps , i play em live, i like them loud and with my preferred speakers..i can just cant stop playing them. but my point was, just because its got tubes in it, doesnt already mean they sound magical, if one thinks that way then it just illogical
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ganjie on October 03, 2013, 12:59:54 PM
I would buy a tube amp if it was worth it. I would buy any amp if it was worth it. Tube amps are inherently expensive due largely to their owners.
i think tube amps are expensive mainly because of their components... the transformers in tube amps from my experience are actually what makes these things heavy! i think the amount of winding used is almost 3 times more that what you'd be getting from a solid state with the same wattage..
that and if you compare the prices of tubes vs. transistors/IC's, you'd get a pretty good idea where the extra pricing goes into...
either way, i agree on what everyone says about the feel. parang sobrang lagkit talaga yung notes sa tube amp na cranked.
i've yet to experience the same in solid state amplifiers aside from that vintage Yamaha i got to play through... hope BarnyardHobo gets to read this and enlighten us on what made that freaking brown amp sound so good! must be voodoo!!! hahahahaha :razz:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 03, 2013, 01:33:53 PM
Surely they can't be five times more expensive because of the components no?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 03, 2013, 01:34:39 PM
I would buy a tube amp if it was worth it. I would buy any amp if it was worth it. Tube amps are inherently expensive due largely to their owners.
meaning?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: kernelsalonpas on October 03, 2013, 01:46:25 PM
i like tube amps, but not all. i like the ethos too. pero halimaw din ung zt club.
may panget na tube amps na lubos sa mix. may ss din na nakakainis gamitin. saken kelangan mo lang ng enough playtime with an amp para madeem if it is good or not.
in the end, one should be able to try all sorts of amps in different contexts muna.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on October 03, 2013, 01:52:02 PM
What difference does it make?Does that mean i will set my level by ear without the drums? Playing alone or band all same set by ear and of course the two situations have different volume levels if i will check my amp volume settings.Dont have preset vol settings, all set according to lots of paramenters(room,playing alone/band)
a lot of settings that sound awesome when you are alone just flat out suck when you are in a band setting. also, a lot of amps, like a peavey bandit sound great alone, but when you are playing with a loud drummer, it flat out sucks.
then theres the matter of great sounding alone tone, but mixed with the bass and drums, you end up getting drowned out
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on October 03, 2013, 02:49:01 PM
Marketing. While Peavey's Transtube tech is a great platform for beginners, malayo pa rin sa tunog ng tube amps nila. Huwag na tayo lumabas. Pag tabihin mo Bandit 112 at Valveking 112. Ang layo ng tunog, response at warmth. Paano pa kaya pag tinabi mo ang bandit sa 5150, XXII, JSX o 3120.
i like tube amps, but not all. i like the ethos too. pero halimaw din ung zt club.
may panget na tube amps na lubos sa mix. may ss din na nakakainis gamitin. saken kelangan mo lang ng enough playtime with an amp para madeem if it is good or not.
a lot of settings that sound awesome when you are alone just flat out suck when you are in a band setting. also, a lot of amps, like a peavey bandit sound great alone, but when you are playing with a loud drummer, it flat out sucks.
then theres the matter of great sounding alone tone, but mixed with the bass and drums, you end up getting drowned out
Yes, one of the main criteria for me for considering amps, solid state or tube is how they fit and slice through the mix. pag nawawala sa mix tapon na yan. lol.
i love the peavey bandit. di namimili ng pedals. pero minsan nawawala siya sa mix dahil kulang sa mids. depends on the application though.
Special wound transformers + 6 tubes vs. a board full of IC's? No significant jump in component price? I think not.
and years of research and development. premium casings. road worthy design. trademark of unique technologies and features. malamang mas mataas presyo. di lang naman components ang basehan ng presyo. and most of the best amps in the world are produced in countries with expensive labor. do the math dtmateo.
Title: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 03, 2013, 05:13:14 PM
Truth is, just like any consumer products, if people are willing to spend a fortune for minute differences in "perceived quality" then companies can jack up the prices as much as they want.
Law of supply and demand. Those who have the money buying something that is longer to manufacture.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: TagaRetiro on October 03, 2013, 05:17:18 PM
Truth is, just like any consumer products, if people are willing to spend a fortune for minute differences in "perceived quality" then companies can jack up the prices as much as they want.
Law of supply and demand. Those who have the money buying something that is longer to manufacture.
What's your point? This has nothing to do with whether tube amps sound better than a solid state.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: rrmode1 on October 03, 2013, 06:29:37 PM
Truth is, just like any consumer products, if people are willing to spend a fortune for minute differences in "perceived quality" then companies can jack up the prices as much as they want.
Law of supply and demand. Those who have the money buying something that is longer to manufacture.
"Minute" differences? Aren't we going a little overboard with our adjectives here? :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: mikebled on October 03, 2013, 06:36:33 PM
What's your point? This has nothing to do with whether tube amps sound better than a solid state.
Agree. Let's stick to the topic please.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on October 03, 2013, 06:41:59 PM
im usually happy when i see a Peavey Bandit in a rehearsal room ... it is a good amp to get you started with. i wish they'd make a bigger version of it though. it just cant seem to compete with a loud drummer.
same thing with a zt lunchbox, i like it just like i like a peavey bandit, but its 8 inch speaker cant handle bass.
a zt club, now, that is something i have never tried.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 03, 2013, 07:23:21 PM
Truth is, just like any consumer products, if people are willing to spend a fortune for minute differences in "perceived quality" then companies can jack up the prices as much as they want.
Law of supply and demand. Those who have the money buying something that is longer to manufacture.
Hah Hah Hah Hah... I suggest you listen and play thru more tube amps before making statements like these. Truth is: people who cannot afford just sour grape.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: paul_sigua on October 03, 2013, 07:42:54 PM
Truth is, just like any consumer products, if people are willing to spend a fortune for minute differences in "perceived quality" then companies can jack up the prices as much as they want.
Law of supply and demand. Those who have the money buying something that is longer to manufacture.
Haha. If thinking that way makes you happy, then so be it. Just so you know, a lot of great players w/ great tone play/ played through tube amps. I don't think players like SRV and Eric Johnson went all through that hassle just for "minute differences".
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: rrmode1 on October 03, 2013, 07:55:09 PM
Hah Hah Hah Hah... I suggest you listen and play thru more tube amps before making statements like these. Truth is: people who cannot afford just sour grape.
+1
Hell I can't even afford boutique tube amps and I agree with you :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: lolwat on October 03, 2013, 10:23:03 PM
Hah Hah Hah Hah... I suggest you listen and play thru more tube amps before making statements like these. Truth is: people who cannot afford just sour grape.
much as i disagree with a lot of Alex's opinions most of the time, he has a point on this one. you should probably suspend your judgment until you could play with a lot of amplifiers of different makes and types, and in every situation possible.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on October 03, 2013, 10:25:47 PM
Is tube amps matters more than solid state?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: juwanfidle09 on October 04, 2013, 04:41:23 AM
Hah Hah Hah Hah... I suggest you listen and play thru more tube amps before making statements like these. Truth is: people who cannot afford just sour grape.
Not all :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 04, 2013, 05:43:06 AM
Hah Hah Hah Hah... I suggest you listen and play thru more tube amps before making statements like these. Truth is: people who cannot afford just sour grape.
Dude, music stores here have dedicated rooms to test amps at ear splitting levels. Any amp. Sorry to tell you that some megabuck tube amps sound crap (Egnater comes to mind first). Some amps are very choosy with guitars. And then there are SS like the Line6 Spider that will blow away your cliched Dual Rectifier.
Money is not (yet) a real issue. I have spent so much more on photography than anything I have ever spent on music. Always go for the bigger ROI. Tube amps don't give me money LOL!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: free2rock on October 04, 2013, 06:49:51 AM
Yuck... digital
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 04, 2013, 06:53:31 AM
Egnater is not really a "megabuck" amp, is it?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: free2rock on October 04, 2013, 06:56:48 AM
Dude, music stores here have dedicated rooms to test amps at ear splitting levels. Any amp. Sorry to tell you that some megabuck tube amps sound crap (Egnater comes to mind first). Some amps are very choosy with guitars. And then there are SS like the Line6 Spider that will blow away your cliched Dual Rectifier.
Money is not (yet) a real issue. I have spent so much more on photography than anything I have ever spent on music. Always go for the bigger ROI. Tube amps don't give me money LOL!
^ Lol OMG... hahah go spend time with a dual rec and a spider first. Im sorry but the spider is a JOKE OF AN AMPLIFIER. Its great for noodling around at home but no way would I bring a spider on stage. The dual rec is a LEGENDARY AMP... and while its not one of the best... its been the default amp of choice just because its so versatile, reliable and generally good sounding. The Dual Rec, is up there with the Twin reverb, deluxe reverb, super reverb, Jcm800, DSL, Plexis and all the other "STANDARDS".
And to be completely honest, the chances of a transtube on stage are way higher than a spider. LOL
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 04, 2013, 07:05:12 AM
^ Lol OMG... hahah go spend time with a dual rec and a spider first. Im sorry but the spider is a JOKE OF AN AMPLIFIER. Its great for noodling around at home but no way would I bring a spider on stage. The dual rec is a LEGENDARY AMP... and while its not one of the best... its been the default amp of choice just because its so versatile, reliable and generally good sounding. The Dual Rec, is up there with the Twin reverb, deluxe reverb, super reverb, Jcm800, DSL, Plexis and all the other "STANDARDS".
I agree. 100%. :-P
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 04, 2013, 07:08:23 AM
This thread just inspired me to bring out the Shiva tomorrow. Now thats an INSPIRING amp.
c u at craft
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 04, 2013, 07:18:45 AM
^ Lol OMG... hahah go spend time with a dual rec and a spider first. Im sorry but the spider is a JOKE OF AN AMPLIFIER. Its great for noodling around at home but no way would I bring a spider on stage. The dual rec is a LEGENDARY AMP... and while its not one of the best... its been the default amp of choice just because its so versatile, reliable and generally good sounding. The Dual Rec, is up there with the Twin reverb, deluxe reverb, super reverb, Jcm800, DSL, Plexis and all the other "STANDARDS".
And to be completely honest, the chances of a transtube on stage are way higher than a spider. LOL
At least it can sound like a Marshall unlike the dual rec nyahaha!!! Even my former bandmates Behringer 100W head and 4x12 cab is indistinguishable from a Marshall and it's only $700.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 04, 2013, 07:40:08 AM
Dude, music stores here have dedicated rooms to test amps at ear splitting levels. Any amp. Sorry to tell you that some megabuck tube amps sound crap (Egnater comes to mind first). Some amps are very choosy with guitars. And then there are SS like the Line6 Spider that will blow away your cliched Dual Rectifier.
Money is not (yet) a real issue. I have spent so much more on photography than anything I have ever spent on music. Always go for the bigger ROI. Tube amps don't give me money LOL!
someone just lost his tone credibility.
-*-
for someone who claims to spend that much money on photography, you surely have low quality videos.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 07:53:26 AM
Eat your words: http://flickr.com/dtmateojr (http://flickr.com/dtmateojr)
oh sorry, i was just assuming that good cameras always have a decent video option. yours were celphone quality. you did a pretty good representation of the line 6 tone though
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skrumian on October 04, 2013, 07:59:19 AM
Line6 Spider will blow away Dual Rec?
LOL.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: qroon on October 04, 2013, 08:00:43 AM
And then there are SS like the Line6 Spider that will blow away your cliched Dual Rectifier.
You're joking, right? Have you played through both? Extensively? I have. Guess which one I ended up buying (just look at my avatar).
However, if you truly prefer the sound and feel of SS over tubes, that's perfectly OK. Everyone has the right to his own preference.
Quote
Always go for the bigger ROI. Tube amps don't give me money LOL!
For musicians (professionals, amateurs, enthusiasts, even hobbyists) the R is not always about the money when investing in musical equipment. For me as a guitarist, it is about being satisfied with what I hear as well as how it felt to play through my rig. Not just alone in my bedroom, but in a live or studio situation.
Title: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 08:22:23 AM
oh sorry, i was just assuming that good cameras always have a decent video option. yours were celphone quality. you did a pretty good representation of the line 6 tone though
Those videos were either captured with an iPhone in a dimly lit room. I can do better than that but it's not a video demo it's a music demo. Even if I improved the video the music would still suck anyway LOL!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: free2rock on October 04, 2013, 08:33:24 AM
based on MY exposure to these type of amps, i still go for Tube Amps over Solid state.
Same here. Unless my hearing is failing me, the sound of tube amps is nicer to my ears. Cranked solid state amps are too sharp for my taste, though I haven't tried the high end ones. For similarly priced amps I will go for tube amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 04, 2013, 08:38:44 AM
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on October 04, 2013, 08:41:20 AM
I'm a huge solid state fan but it's my personal fetish. For the longest time, my gigging amp was a 1962 SA-2 specifically because I planned to use it with modelers and needed a sterile tone and wanted to kick it around stage without breaking. Both types of amps have their uses but the truth of the matter is where you could get the APPROXIMATE tone of "legendary" amps, that doesn't factor in speaker response, sag, harmonics, feel etc. So whereas the prevailing opinion of this thread skews away from my personal gear preference (can take getting kicked sideways on stage and can gig the next day, not TOO crap sounding), I understand that tube amps are an artform.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Autoplay2009 on October 04, 2013, 08:43:26 AM
Same here. Unless my hearing is failing me, the sound of tube amps is nicer to my ears. Cranked solid state amps are too sharp for my taste, though I haven't tried the high end ones. For similarly priced amps I will go for tube amps.
same here man. it has never been pleasant to me :-\
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: free2rock on October 04, 2013, 08:46:28 AM
I'm a huge solid state fan but it's my personal fetish. For the longest time, my gigging amp was a 1962 SA-2 specifically because I planned to use it with modelers and needed a sterile tone and wanted to kick it around stage without breaking. Both types of amps have their uses but the truth of the matter is where you could get the APPROXIMATE tone of "legendary" amps, that doesn't factor in speaker response, sag, harmonics, feel etc. So whereas the prevailing opinion of this thread skews away from my personal gear preference (can take getting kicked sideways on stage and can gig the next day, not TOO crap sounding), I understand that tube amps are an artform.
Being part of the minority is so you! :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on October 04, 2013, 08:48:22 AM
I'm a huge solid state fan but it's my personal fetish. For the longest time, my gigging amp was a 1962 SA-2 specifically because I planned to use it with modelers and needed a sterile tone and wanted to kick it around stage without breaking. Both types of amps have their uses but the truth of the matter is where you could get the APPROXIMATE tone of "legendary" amps, that doesn't factor in speaker response, sag, harmonics, feel etc. So whereas the prevailing opinion of this thread skews away from my personal gear preference (can take getting kicked sideways on stage and can gig the next day, not TOO crap sounding), I understand that tube amps are an artform.
I would have to agree with this. Well said.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 09:11:01 AM
Tube amps are the shiz. But I have love for the ZT's and the ZT's only at the moment for solid states.
To my ears, nothing sounded the sweetest for my LP to plug into than a cranked JCM900. No valvestate or solidstate marshall can sound like that. There goes.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on October 04, 2013, 09:17:57 AM
Tube amps are the shiz. But I have love for the ZT's and the ZT's only at the moment for solid states.
To my ears, nothing sounded the sweetest for my LP to plug into than a cranked JCM900. No valvestate or solidstate marshall can sound like that. There goes.
Well, I DID get rid of the SA-2. Currently ampless so the ball is in favor of tube. :))
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 04, 2013, 09:26:38 AM
I just hope half of these tube snobs can strum a chord :)
Uuuuy bat ganyan na sinasabi mo? Mali ka naman kase eh pinagpipilitan mo pa... Oo respeto sa personal preference PERO masyado naman atang malayo yung comparison mo pre, DUAL REC vs Line 6 Spider? Oh come on..
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: mikebled on October 04, 2013, 10:19:04 AM
Uuuuy bat ganyan na sinasabi mo? Mali ka naman kase eh pinagpipilitan mo pa... Oo respeto sa personal preference PERO masyado naman atang malayo yung comparison mo pre, DUAL REC vs Line 6 Spider? Oh come on..
+1
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on October 04, 2013, 10:24:26 AM
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 10:36:33 AM
See I'm not claiming anything about my playing. An expensive tube amp will do me no good. What's interesting to see is for those who have the gear if they can actually make it sound good wahaha!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: coy_2cute on October 04, 2013, 10:38:15 AM
Post your vids using your tube amps naman!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 10:38:25 AM
There is no such thing. Those who buy SS are just trying to be practical.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on October 04, 2013, 10:42:17 AM
isang nakikita ko is yung australian approach vs american. maski sa australian luthiers and techs, nakikita ko din to.
example lang, one famous australian luthier told me that its impossible for one to change / lengthen the abr posts on a gibson LP as there are no commercially available posts that would do the job. samantala ang tagal tagal na ng Maple Flame mod na yan.
one guitar tech told me pareho lang specs / dimensions ng modern Gibson standard / historic LP sa Lumang 50s gibson LP.
masyadong american tayong mga pinoy, kasi naman former american colony.
sa akin lang, there's a reason kung bakit USA ang laging nangunguna pag dating sa guitar, amps etc. kung mapansin niyo lang masyadong mabusisi sila pag dating sa tone. kasing busisi ng hapon pag dating sa kotse at electronics.
i agree....whatever rocks your boat..
but those amps became famous for a reason. and the marshalls that i see in australian chain stores are NOT those from the olden days. having had tried boutique amps (TY FM55) and a few old amps, i can say, again, there's a reason why they're famous. no two tube amps of the same model and brand sound the same too. some of the guys here have vintage amps. some have tried vintage amps as well. some have collections of those boutique amps. these amps, wala sa australia. some aussie techs and luthiers are not even aware of the boutique brands and notable luthiers.
let us also not forget, that part of the equation is also about having a good guitar. hindi mailalabas ng magandang amp ang sipol kung hindi naman sumisipol ang gitara.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 10:42:23 AM
It's not even perfect but I never claimed it to be. But you better blow my brains off with your skill :)
you dissed the skill of your so-called tube snobs by insinuating that half of them cannot strum a chord. you claimed that the Line6 Spider can blow away a Dual Rec.
who's "perfect" now?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 10:53:05 AM
you dissed the skill of your so-called tube snobs by insinuating that half of them cannot strum a chord. you claimed that the Line6 Spider can blow away a Dual Rec.
who's "perfect" now?
What?! You guys are tube this tube that, SS sucks and everything in between. At least show that you can play.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jellogz on October 04, 2013, 10:54:01 AM
What?! You guys are tube this tube that, SS sucks and everything in between. At least show that you can play.
I can play! We can play! D-A-G-A, Line to Heaven... dali lang naman :-D ..and take note, playing that chord progression using my 100-watt TUBE AMP! Sarap! :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ael_israel on October 04, 2013, 11:05:37 AM
What?! You guys are tube this tube that, SS sucks and everything in between. At least show that you can play.
baka kainin mo ang sinasabi mo,, lot a guys play really good..... with TUBE AMP of course cos accept it dude Tubes are way better than SS.. truth hurts man! :wink:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: robertshanepascual on October 04, 2013, 11:06:34 AM
I just hope half of these tube snobs can strum a chord :)
Nasan na ba si Senyor Bethoben para matapos na?
Sorry i can't help it. :-D
#mema #epal lang ako, break time.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jacobsarinas on October 04, 2013, 11:11:34 AM
Previously, it was a healthy discussion. Now, it's turning out to a soon to be locked unhealthy thread. As before, nauuwi ang 'di pagkakasunduan sa isang 'general truth and commonly accepted fact' sa pagalingan nalang sa pag-play at pag-strum ng chords? UNPROFESSIONAL.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 04, 2013, 11:13:45 AM
Honestly, I'm very noob at tube amps, also noob at skills. Hahaha. Pero eto ang verdict ko between a peavey bandit 112 (SS), Fender Deluxe Reverb 112 (SS), and a Goldea AT-30 (tube. SORRY ETO PA LANG NA-TRY KO ACTUALLY. :eek:)
bandit and fdr are superb in clean sound. Wala ako masasabi sa kanila. Telecaster and Strat? Yummy. Add some modulations and heaven na. Pedal friendly. Ok naman and happy using an od (fd2) or dist (SH). volume is at level 4 max ONLY. Bakit? Kasi beyond that level, it sounds CRAP! hahaha. Ewan ko pero tunog lata na siya. Tipong basag talaga. Araw-araw kong hinanap magandang mix ng EQ at high volume but sorry me. <_<
Then when I got my feet on Elegees cradle, he has this Goldea AT-30 with Celestion speaker. Tried it with my tele with SD Lil 59 bridge using SH. Verdict? That amp is so sweet! Yes Goldea lang yung. Cheap tube amp but the feel is soooooooo different than SS. Bilog, warm, ganda ng dynamics, etc. And kahit anong lakas ng amp, ang linis talaga. Buong-buo. Tipong nakakaiyak. :lol:
IMHO, mahal ang tube amp because of design, durability, and the feel that you can get. It's not really the hype kung bakit marami gumagamit. Kung yung Goldea maganda na tumunog, what more pag ibang high end amps pa di ba? I really respect your opinions pero yung experience ko, maganda talaga kung tube amp ang gamit (regardless of what brand you want to use). :wave:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 04, 2013, 11:14:20 AM
Previously, it was a healthy discussion. Now, it's turning out to a soon to be locked unhealthy thread. As before, nauuwi ang 'di pagkakasunduan sa isang 'general truth and commonly accepted fact' sa pagalingan nalang sa pag-play at pag-strum ng chords? UNPROFESSIONAL.
There is no such thing. Those who buy SS are just trying to be practical.
Not really. There are affordable tube amps just like there are expensive solid state amps and hybrids. With ss amps, a new tone requires an amp replacement. With tube amps, all you need to replace are the tubes and transformers.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: TagaRetiro on October 04, 2013, 11:15:51 AM
What?! You guys are tube this tube that, SS sucks and everything in between. At least show that you can play.
The only negative comment I saw about SS amps from the thread is from Vhunter who said that transtube is a joke. Recent comments were made only in response to your "Line6 beating a Rectifier" statement.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 11:20:39 AM
baka kainin mo ang sinasabi mo,, lot a guys play really good..... with TUBE AMP of course cos accept it dude Tubes are way better than SS.. truth hurts man! :wink:
I'm sure there are those who can play though not every one of them. The noisiest are usually those who can't.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on October 04, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Then when I got my feet on Elegees cradle, he has this Goldea AT-30 with Celestion speaker. Tried it with my tele with SD Lil 59 bridge using SH. Verdict? That amp is so sweet! Yes Goldea lang yung. Cheap tube amp but the feel is soooooooo different than SS. Bilog, warm, ganda ng dynamics, etc. And kahit anong lakas ng amp, ang linis talaga. Buong-buo. Tipong nakakaiyak. :lol:
IMHO, mahal ang tube amp because of design, durability, and the feel that you can get. It's not really the hype kung bakit marami gumagamit. Kung yung Goldea maganda na tumunog, what more pag ibang high end amps pa di ba? I really respect your opinions pero yung experience ko, maganda talaga kung tube amp ang gamit (regardless of what brand you want to use). :wave:
Not all tubes are priced the same. The chinese tubes probably used in goldea are less expensive as well as the transformers used. The higher end tubes are more expensive and supposedly has better tone. But you do hear the difference in tone on tube amps vs ss, unless you convince yourself otherwise.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: joel_marcelo on October 04, 2013, 11:31:49 AM
I'm sure there are those who can play though not every one of them. The noisiest are usually those who can't.
Judging by the number of comments here it appears you are among the noisiest. I strongly suggest avoiding assumptions that most of those who are against your opinion cannot play well, unless you are confident that you are better than them.
The thread is about the qualities of tube amps vs solid state amps. It is not about guitar skills.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 04, 2013, 11:34:56 AM
Not all tubes are priced the same. The chinese tubes probably used in goldea are less expensive as well as the transformers used. The higher end tubes are more expensive and supposedly has better tone. But you do hear the difference in tone on tube amps vs ss, unless you convince yourself otherwise.
Yeah. Totally hear the difference. And as a musician, kahit mahal kung makukuha mo naman yung feel and tone na gusto mo, money will not be an issue. Sacrificing your bread is inevitable. KUDOS SA MGA LAGING OT SA WORK PARA MAKABILI NG TUBE AMPS. hahahahaha :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: mikebled on October 04, 2013, 11:36:20 AM
Judging by the number of comments here it appears you are among the noisiest. I strongly suggest avoiding assumptions that most of those who are against your opinion cannot play well, unless you are confident that you are better than them.
The thread is about the qualities of tube amps vs solid state amps. It is not about guitar skills.
Well said, sir royc. :-)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: markcasq on October 04, 2013, 11:38:49 AM
digital for me! :lol:
@dtmateo - if you always bring the topic of skill vs. gear, you're in for an argument. Suggest you don't bring it up in a way that puts down other people. Check #9 here, it's a sticky, read it: http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=196448.0
Also, the word "practical" is relative. No one will win if you argue what is practical.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ganjie on October 04, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
before this thread gets locked, let's mellow down...
in defense of the line6 spider, there's this venue we play in from time to time with that amp. for a few months a few guitar players (myself included) purposedly blasted through that amp to the point where the amp cut out intermittently not because it sounded good but to actually get the amp to break down and die! (hoping it gets replaced with something better as we were tired of bringing our amps everytime we played....).
after a few months of that, we gave up... the beat up LINE 6 SPIDER, lived!!! hahahahahhahaha
BTT:
a few more things that i love about tube amps are:
1. As you turn it up, the tone gets better. 2. not too scary of running it at peak levels.. It's durable... 3. dynamics, you can drive it and play clean by just changing the way you hit the strings... (i think this is what really sets it apart from solid state)...
that said, mabuhay and line 6 spider!! :razz:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 04, 2013, 11:54:55 AM
Also, the word "practical" is relative. No one will win if you argue what is practical.
I agree. What if I'll spend 100k for a tube amp and not getting that 200k worth of a boutique amp? And for me that's "practical"? Could you say that I spent too much because of "hype" or "practicality"? Eh kung sa mayaman ako. Hahahaha :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: markcasq on October 04, 2013, 12:07:44 PM
I agree. What if I'll spend 100k for a tube amp and not getting that 200k worth of a boutique amp? And for me that's "practical"? Could you say that I spent too much because of "hype" or "practicality"? Eh kung sa mayaman ako. Hahahaha :lol:
You got it sir! Sino ba naman hindi gustong maging praktikal? Tapos yung iba they judge other people based on their definition of practical. <_< Tapos if people don't fit their definition of practical, sasabihin "they cannot even strumm a chord"? Respect is the key!
ACTUALLY, LAHAT MAGANDA! AND THIS THREAD PROBABLY MIGHT NOT GO ANYWHERE BECAUSE NO ONE PERSON HAS TRIED ALL THE TUBE AMPS AND ALL THE SOLID STATE AMP IN THE WORLD TO MAKE AN INDESPUTABLE CONCLUSION. And even if someone tried it all, everything is still relative.
Mag JOYO DC-15 na lang kayo! electric, acoustic, drums, kaya :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 04, 2013, 12:13:03 PM
Niyahaha. Tama sir mark.
Anyway, walang katapusang discussion to unless someone would actually test a tube and SS amp side to side and siyempre andun tayo mismo dahil mas ma-appreciate natin than video demo lang.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ael_israel on October 04, 2013, 12:15:17 PM
You got it sir! Sino ba naman hindi gustong maging praktikal? Tapos yung iba they judge other people based on their definition of practical. <_< Tapos if people don't fit their definition of practical, sasabihin "they cannot even strumm a chord"? Respect is the key!
ACTUALLY, LAHAT MAGANDA! AND THIS THREAD PROBABLY MIGHT NOT GO ANYWHERE BECAUSE NO ONE PERSON HAS TRIED ALL THE TUBE AMPS AND ALL THE SOLID STATE AMP IN THE WORLD TO MAKE AN INDESPUTABLE CONCLUSION. And even if someone tried it all, everything is still relative.
Mag JOYO DC-15 na lang kayo! electric, acoustic, drums, kaya :lol: :lol: :lol:
and the joyo dc-15 gives you energy like you've never experienced before!! it will also help you in your exercise! trust me it really does! ^-^ ^-^
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: techbp on October 04, 2013, 12:17:16 PM
You got it sir! Sino ba naman hindi gustong maging praktikal? Tapos yung iba they judge other people based on their definition of practical. <_< Tapos if people don't fit their definition of practical, sasabihin "they cannot even strumm a chord"? Respect is the key!
ACTUALLY, LAHAT MAGANDA! AND THIS THREAD PROBABLY MIGHT NOT GO ANYWHERE BECAUSE NO ONE PERSON HAS TRIED ALL THE TUBE AMPS AND ALL THE SOLID STATE AMP IN THE WORLD TO MAKE AN INDESPUTABLE CONCLUSION. And even if someone tried it all, everything is still relative.
Mag JOYO DC-15 na lang kayo! electric, acoustic, drums, kaya :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hahahaha! Nice! Watched Ael's demo with this amp... very interesting bed room amp!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skrumian on October 04, 2013, 12:20:14 PM
Zoom multifx into karaoke! Tone heaven!
IBTL!
Sent from my Avaya phone using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: qroon on October 04, 2013, 12:20:35 PM
I agree. What if I'll spend 100k for a tube amp and not getting that 200k worth of a boutique amp? And for me that's "practical"? Could you say that I spent too much because of "hype" or "practicality"? Eh kung sa mayaman ako. Hahahaha :lol:
Yes! E kung mayaman ka di ba? Practical pa rin na lahat ng classic Marshalls meron ka. Yung tao naman na mas mababa income puwede mag Bugera na $500 tube amp. E kung sa maganda sa kanya tunog nun e. Ano magagawa natin? Yung iba gusto naman tunog solid state at modellers dahil nakukuha na nila yung tunog nila ng maganda, masipag sila mag timpla. Yaan mo na. Kung puro SS can afford mo di rin naman masama yun. Puwede ka naman mangarap ng tube amp na trip mo. Wag ka nalang siguro mag sour grape sa may tube amp kung wala ka talaga pambili.
Yung mahalaga meron ka. At gusto mo tunog.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: juwanfidle09 on October 04, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
Yes! E kung mayaman ka di ba? Practical pa rin na lahat ng classic Marshalls meron ka. Yung tao naman na mas mababa income puwede mag Bugera na $500 tube amp. E kung sa maganda sa kanya tunog nun e. Ano magagawa natin? Yung iba gusto naman tunog solid state at modellers dahil nakukuha na nila yung tunog nila ng maganda, masipag sila mag timpla. Yaan mo na. Kung puro SS can afford mo di rin naman masama yun. Puwede ka naman mangarap ng tube amp na trip mo. Wag ka nalang siguro mag sour grape sa may tube amp kung wala ka talaga pambili.
Yung mahalaga meron ka. At gusto mo tunog.
Ali, paano kung maglabas ng tube amp version at budget ss amp nito?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 01:36:56 PM
@dtmateo - if you always bring the topic of skill vs. gear, you're in for an argument. Suggest you don't bring it up in a way that puts down other people. Check #9 here, it's a sticky, read it: http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=196448.0
Also, the word "practical" is relative. No one will win if you argue what is practical.
Thanks for the link.
The skill argument only came in because:
1) They think my video was a joke 2) They think the music in the video was a joke.
To me that is a serious challenge and borderline insulting.
So stand up to what you think is a joke and I will even praise you if I think you are worth the megabuck tube amp you have been preaching about. Otherwise STFU and enjoy the thread :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 04, 2013, 01:47:53 PM
1) They think my video was a joke 2) They think the music in the video was a joke.
To me that is a serious challenge and borderline insulting.
So stand up to what you think is a joke and I will even praise you if I think you are worth the megabuck tube amp you have been preaching about. Otherwise STFU and enjoy the thread :)
i think you just had a senior moment. let me refresh your memory. this post brought up the skill argument:
And then there are SS like the Line6 Spider that will blow away your cliched Dual Rectifier.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! naka crank ka na ba ng dual rec ng stage volumes? Ng 4x12? With a band? Line6 Spider? Kahit $200 Randall RG Solid state talo yan e. Something is wrong with your ear. Wala yata ako professional musician na kilala na may experience sa dalawa at proper gig volumes na sasabihin yan. :cry:
Kahit yata Line 6 di nila masabisabi na talo nila ang totoong Mesa Rectifier. Baka Sta. Mesa Rectofier kaya pa.
At least it can sound like a Marshall unlike the dual rec nyahaha!!! Even my former bandmates Behringer 100W head and 4x12 cab is indistinguishable from a Marshall and it's only $700.
Yikes. Yeah it is indistinguishable from a Marshall MG. Solid state. Try plugging to a a great JVM, JCM or Plexi. O kaya at least naman mag Bugera ka. Behringer din yun.
Ali, paano kung maglabas ng tube amp version at budget ss amp nito?
Pag meron talaga yan, bibili ako niyan Biro mo pati boses kaya. Talo pa ang TC vocal effects. hahahaha! NEvaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 04, 2013, 02:19:03 PM
@dtmateo , just keep an open mind and keep practicing... I watched your my Sharona video and I love the attitude. You should come by tomorrow at craft and I'll let you play the song with my band through my rig. Then let's talk after and let me know how it feels with a nice little tube amp behind you. I guarantee you and even bet 100 pesos... Il have to pry the rig from your hands after the song. :) LETS DO IT !!!! Keep playing man that's all that matters.
The best part is I'll bring the mini rectifier ... Just for kicks hahaha.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 02:20:07 PM
Let me throw back the question at you. The same question I have been asking before:
At what volume do you play your tube amp?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 04, 2013, 02:22:06 PM
All volumes... I've played super loud and super soft. I have attenuators, di's, modelers... Etc. they're all tools. I even used a silent speaker cab once.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: juwanfidle09 on October 04, 2013, 02:28:59 PM
All volumes... I've played super loud and super soft. I have attenuators, di's, modelers... Etc. they're all tools. I even used a silent speaker cab once.
dalawang beses na akong naging saksi nito :-D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ubersam on October 04, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
So stand up to what you think is a joke and I will even praise you if I think you are worth the megabuck tube amp you have been preaching about. Otherwise STFU and enjoy the thread :)
And there it is... I was wondering when that "worth your gear" argument was gonna pop up. I personally don't agree with that position. Let them acquire what they can/want and let them be happy with it. Besides, who will judge whether they are "worth" their gear or not? You?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 04, 2013, 02:31:44 PM
Posted the wrong vid,
That one pala. Silent cab. 90watt tube amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on October 04, 2013, 02:32:24 PM
How about using a bunch of pedals? Will the tube amp and ss amp sound the same or nearly identical to each other? :?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 04, 2013, 02:33:40 PM
Can someone do a demo side to side. TUBE vs SS.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 02:36:17 PM
All volumes... I've played super loud and super soft. I have attenuators, di's, modelers... Etc. they're all tools. I even used a silent speaker cab once.
So you crank up the amp so you can use attenuators? :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 04, 2013, 02:37:43 PM
How about using a bunch of pedals? Will the tube amp and ss amp sound the same or nearly identical to each other? :?
It depends... But you'll most of the time find more warmth in the T amp. Plus if you boost the volume of the OD pedal, the input tubes start to clip resulting in some nice preamp distortion. On a ss amp, it sounds kinda bad.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 04, 2013, 02:38:31 PM
Dude, music stores here have dedicated rooms to test amps at ear splitting levels. Any amp. Sorry to tell you that some megabuck tube amps sound crap (Egnater comes to mind first). Some amps are very choosy with guitars. And then there are SS like the Line6 Spider that will blow away your cliched Dual Rectifier.
Money is not (yet) a real issue. I have spent so much more on photography than anything I have ever spent on music. Always go for the bigger ROI. Tube amps don't give me money LOL!
For the record, I don't have a Dual Rectifier. I do have the Line 6 Spider Jam which is great for backing CD parts, metronome functions and drum machine. And I just compared it AGAIN to my 25th Anniversary Marshall, 30th Anniversary Marshall, JCM 900 SLX and Marshall Super Lead (circa 1972). And you know what on all counts, the Marshalls beat the hell out of the Line 6. But I do agree with you that there are SOME megabuck tube amps that sound like crap in a SEA of cheap solid state guitar amps.
Unless you tell me that ALL your camera equipment is ALL made by Leica, I am not impressed with your claim of having spent more on photography. I can tell that you spend on guitar equipment that is cheap. You earn money unless you have a built in slot machine in your solid state guitar amp. No amp can give you money even a solid state one. By the way, great sounding tube amps are NOT choosy with guitars. On the other hand, you may have a lousy sounding guitar if other higher quality guitars sound better with a specific tube amp.
If money is not a real issue (yet), I suggest you don't bother. Your HEARING seems to be the real issue.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 04, 2013, 02:48:37 PM
What?! You guys are tube this tube that, SS sucks and everything in between. At least show that you can play.
I do hope you can play better than tube amp users like steve vai, joe satriani, paul gilbert, nunu bettencourt, eddie van halen etc. now that you mention playing.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 04, 2013, 02:58:49 PM
For the record, I don't have a Dual Rectifier. I do have the Line 6 Spider Jam which is great for backing CD parts, metronome functions and drum machine. And I just compared it AGAIN to my 25th Anniversary Marshall, 30th Anniversary Marshall, JCM 900 SLX and Marshall Super Lead (circa 1972). And you know what on all counts, the Marshalls beat the hell out of the Line 6. But I do agree with you that there are SOME megabuck tube amps that sound like crap in a SEA of cheap solid state guitar amps.
Unless you tell me that ALL your camera equipment is ALL made by Leica, I am not impressed with your claim of having spent more on photography. I can tell that you spend on guitar equipment that is cheap. You earn money unless you have a built in slot machine in your solid state guitar amp. No amp can give you money even a solid state one. By the way, great sounding tube amps are NOT choosy with guitars. On the other hand, you may have a lousy sounding guitar if other higher quality guitars sound better with a specific tube amp.
If money is not a real issue (yet), I suggest you don't bother. Your HEARING seems to be the real issue.
You don't know how many cameras I have and how much I have spent on fuel and hotels just to capture the right light. If you are ignorant on photography please don't even start discussing it with me.
BTW, I'm still waiting for your video.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 04, 2013, 03:01:00 PM
You don't know how many cameras I have and how much I have spent on fuel and hotels just to capture the right light. If you are ignorant on photography please don't even start discussing it with me.
BTW, I'm still waiting for your video.
You don't know how many GUITAR AMPS I have and how much I have spent on PLANE TICKETS and HOTELS just to capture the right GUITAR SOUND. If you are ignorant on TUBE GUITAR AMPS please don't even start discussing it with me.
BTW, I don't do videos.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 03:04:20 PM
I do hope you can play better than tube amp users like steve vai, joe satriani, paul gilbert, nunu bettencourt, eddie van halen etc. now that you mention playing.
I would never match them but from the way you preach about tube amps I bet YOU can. So let me hear you play.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 03:05:57 PM
You don't know how many GUITAR AMPS I have and how much I have spent on PLANE TICKETS and HOTELS just to capture the right GUITAR SOUND. If you are ignorant on TUBE GUITAR AMPS please don't even start discussing it with me.
BTW, I don't do videos.
No sound demos even?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: rowley75 on October 04, 2013, 03:06:58 PM
I love my soldano. pero damn, that axefx 2.. :cute: :cute: :cute:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 04, 2013, 03:07:02 PM
From my own experience, a 30W amp at 4 driving a 1x12 speaker is unusable in most venues. In an open field, you would be audible 2Kms away.
Edit: The point is, you wont even get to the sweet spot of your amp in real situations. Not just testing. Real gigs.
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Halatang di mo alam pinagsasabi mo. Ang dami dami tube amps na makukuha mo sweet spot kahit nasa 3 lang volume. Kahit condo levels, makukuha mo sweet spot ng tube amp.
Audible ka nga 2kms away. Tunog utot ka naman tapos suffering ang headroom mo dahil sa wattage at cab choice mo. Wala pa rin.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 04, 2013, 03:11:13 PM
Halatang di mo alam pinagsasabi mo. Ang dami dami tube amps na makukuha mo sweet spot kahit nasa 3 lang volume. Kahit condo levels, makukuha mo sweet spot ng tube amp.
Audible ka nga 2kms away. Tunog utot ka naman tapos suffering ang headroom mo dahil sa wattage at cab choice mo. Wala pa rin.
Can you give an example of a tube amp with a sweet spot at 3? :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 04, 2013, 03:16:37 PM
Audible ka nga 2kms away. Tunog utot ka naman tapos suffering ang headroom mo dahil sa wattage at cab choice mo. Wala pa rin.
Hahaha. I tried it already. Marshall MG 1x12. Di na need an 2km para sabihin mong crappy headroom ng amp. Hahaha. Sa plaza pa lang namin, olats na. Or baka tenga ko lang problem. Sorry po. :cry:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 04, 2013, 03:17:47 PM
we get it. if you are a guitarist in your mid-30s and you don't own a tube amp, that's totally fine. just don't go all defensive and start dissing those who own one just to make you feel better about it.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: rowley75 on October 04, 2013, 03:19:03 PM
we get it. if you are a guitarist in your mid-30s and you don't own a tube amp, that's totally fine. just don't go all defensive and start dissing those who own one just to make you feel better about it.
BOOM!!!! :razz: nuff said.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on October 04, 2013, 03:20:36 PM
Can you give an example of a tube amp with a sweet spot at 3? :)
EVH 5150 III Mini Blackstar Series One 200 Laney Ironheart Marshall JVM410 Peavey JSX Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 5150 Combo
Madami. Gumamit ka pa attenuator to crank it mas marami ka pa magagawa sa sweet spot. Not everything has to be loud to get the sweet spot. Hindi naman lahat ng tube amp master volume lang.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 03:27:45 PM
EVH 5150 III Mini Blackstar Series One 200 Laney Ironheart Marshall JVM410 Peavey JSX Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 5150 Combo
Madami. Gumamit ka pa attenuator to crank it mas marami ka pa magagawa sa sweet spot. Not everything has to be loud to get the sweet spot. Hindi naman lahat ng tube amp master volume lang.
Dude, what you are cranking up is the preamp gain NOT the power amp gain. In that case it's neck to neck with a SS amp. You are better off using a multieffects with real tube into a SS than lugging around a back breaking tube amp head and cab.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: joel_marcelo on October 04, 2013, 03:33:14 PM
flamebaiter lang yan. Wag nyo na pansinin. Wala lang tube amp yan. Tayo meron! Wahahaha
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 03:33:23 PM
I spent $300+ on that keyboard. It's something that I use everyday to feed my family and it will outlast any of us.
Hi sir. I respect you being the bread winner of your family. I'm also like you. The only difference is I'm using my profession as a nurse and not a musician. I'm feeding my family, my housemaids, gardener, pets, goat, derby cocks (yeah. Haha), bills, etc. Maybe I can't say na you can outlast any of us kasi pare-pareho lang tayong nagwowork and naghahanap ng magandang gamit.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 03:41:09 PM
Dude, what you are cranking up is the preamp gain NOT the power amp gain. In that case it's neck to neck with a SS amp. You are better off using a multieffects with real tube into a SS than lugging around a back breaking tube amp head and cab.
Kala mo lang yun. Medyo di accurate pagkakaintindi mo sa silbi ng pre amp tubes at power amp tubes. Not every tube amp works that way. With a Blackstar and an Ironheart, for example, puwede ka na dumating sa sweet spot ng sane volume. Even with a JSX and a JVM. Kahit SLO100 kahit anong volume niya maganda tunog.
Ang Peavey XXXII like any amp that has power amp tube swapping capability, palitan mo ng 6L6 ang tubes, iba ang character ng tunog at distortion at any volume. Palitan mo siya EL34, iba din tunog niya at any volume. Palitan mo KT88 mas lalong magiiba tunog at any volume. The sweet breaking, clipping you hear from them is an interaction of pre amp and power amp tubes and not as singular stages like you say.
Masyado malakas para sa iyo 4 na power amp tubes? Bawasan mo. Alisin mo 2. Yung 120 watts mo, magiging 60. Puwede ka na mag clip at harmonic distortion ng mas maaga o mas mahina.
Kahit nga mga bagong Marshall DSL kaya sweetspot kahit nasa bahay ka lang ng hindi umaalog bintana mo.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: joel_marcelo on October 04, 2013, 04:08:09 PM
I spent $300+ on that keyboard. It's something that I use everyday to feed my family and it will outlast any of us.
300$ x 40= 12000 pesos. Bili ka na kasi ng tube amp kahit cub10 lang. Lol. Actually ALL ss amps are marketed to sound like a tube amp but all miserably fail. So, it goes to show that everyone (except you) agree that tube amp is the [gooey brown stuff]. I know deep inside you would love to have a tube amp because it sounds way better. You just wanna be a badass. It's very clear that you don't know what you're talking about. Yadah yadah yadah. Pffft.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 04, 2013, 04:10:35 PM
Hindi ako marunong maggitara. Pero may tube amp ako. Sulit ba? Oo naman! AMMK eh!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: robertshanepascual on October 04, 2013, 04:12:30 PM
Halatang di mo alam pinagsasabi mo. Ang dami dami tube amps na makukuha mo sweet spot kahit nasa 3 lang volume. Kahit condo levels, makukuha mo sweet spot ng tube amp.
Audible ka nga 2kms away. Tunog utot ka naman tapos suffering ang headroom mo dahil sa wattage at cab choice mo. Wala pa rin.
honest question dahil noob pa ako sa noob about sa tube amps. subjective ba ang sweet spot? gusto ko yung distorted sound ng amp (orange dark terror) ko kapag nasa 10-12 o'clock yung volume. (signal chain, orange dark terror -> 1x12 cab with a celestion rocket speaker, para detalyado)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: stringman on October 04, 2013, 06:20:05 PM
I don't have a tube amp right now. But I owned a jcm800, peavey classic 20, some tube pre-amps (Marshall, Hughes & Kettner) I have tried the Soldano and I say nithing comes close to the saturated sound of a cranked tube amp.
As for the Line 6 Spider, it's ok as a stand alone amp pero I never really liked it. I'd rather gig with a 1st gen Valvestate.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 04, 2013, 06:26:32 PM
honest question dahil noob pa ako sa noob about sa tube amps. subjective ba ang sweet spot? gusto ko yung distorted sound ng amp (orange dark terror) ko kapag nasa 10-12 o'clock yung volume. (signal chain, orange dark terror -> 1x12 cab with a celestion rocket speaker, para detalyado)
This is an interesting question... Alex and Miks? :?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: batang80s on October 04, 2013, 06:34:46 PM
The link above shows how sweet a tube amp can be. Please give it a minute to watch. With good speakers/headphone.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 04, 2013, 06:36:16 PM
Ang dami niyan sa SOS/HMR back in the late 90's/early 2000's. P300 lang isa noon.
OT:
Yep. They are now very hard to find in good condition especially the space saver models. I used to lug around my keyboard from home to work and when traveling so I got another one. The second one I bought cost $270 plus very expensive shipping :( I got a laptop at work but I still use the keyboard. It's plugged to my Mac at home. When you work 10 hours a day at the command line no other keyboard compares. It's an obsession.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: MR_BIG on October 04, 2013, 08:19:07 PM
My take is a SS amp doesnt cleans up well using the volume knob, for somebody who leaves his od on all the time, that is important
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: DiMarzSiao™ on October 04, 2013, 08:21:17 PM
BTT: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state? -Yes
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on October 04, 2013, 09:28:49 PM
Scarlett ftw <3
No offense dtmateo, but I have tried firemodel's amps. Though I love my Line 6 Spider IV 212 very very much, I don't think my amp will "beat" his Diezel. To that degree I know where he is coming from. And his Marshalls are too die for. Those are toanz. And BoltThrower's 6505+ will certainly kick arse. And skill/talent is entirely a different subject when it comes to amp tone.
You get to appreciate tube amps at that level when you get to play and spend some time with them.
But again, we have our purposes, wattage preference, overall volume/sweet spot preferences, tone preference, budget, and marami pang iba, and taken collectively, that is somehow where we find/define our "niche" at the moment so to speak. Mine, I found it in the Line 6 Spider IV 212 now and I am not afraid to show it off in a gig. I'm actually looking into the ZT Club now since I want something really loud but lighter (freemansj fb ulit tayo haha).
But do they sound better than Alex's Diezel? Malabo ata. Hehehe. But I'm happy where I am now at my GAS journey.
Just be happy guys and play loud! :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: lykenhowl on October 04, 2013, 09:39:39 PM
had a peavey bandit 110 and a laney lg35r before, had great cleans but the problem is you need to tweak your dirt pedals a lot just to find your sweet spot and hell the list of pedals ive used were awesome but still sucked! check the list below:
after getting a laney cub 10 all those pedals came to life no need to spend a lot of time tweaking and I just enjoyed playing. now im just using a kld head thru a blackstar cab and some joyo od's and I feel content.
So to answer the question YES tube amps are better.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: juwanfidle09 on October 04, 2013, 09:56:00 PM
No offense dtmateo, but I have tried firemodel's amps. Though I love my Line 6 Spider IV 212 very very much, I don't think my amp will "beat" his Diezel. To that degree I know where he is coming from. And his Marshalls are too die for. Those are toanz. And BoltThrower's 6505+ will certainly kick arse. And skill/talent is entirely a different subject when it comes to amp tone.
You get to appreciate tube amps at that level when you get to play and spend some time with them.
But again, we have our purposes, wattage preference, overall volume/sweet spot preferences, tone preference, budget, and marami pang iba, and taken collectively, that is somehow where we find/define our "niche" at the moment so to speak. Mine, I found it in the Line 6 Spider IV 212 now and I am not afraid to show it off in a gig. I'm actually looking into the ZT Club now since I want something really loud but lighter (freemansj fb ulit tayo haha).
But do they sound better than Alex's Diezel? Malabo ata. Hehehe. But I'm happy where I am now at my GAS journey.
Just be happy guys and play loud! :)
kaya kita labs e <3
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on October 04, 2013, 10:12:49 PM
No offense dtmateo, but I have tried firemodel's amps. Though I love my Line 6 Spider IV 212 very very much, I don't think my amp will "beat" his Diezel. To that degree I know where he is coming from. And his Marshalls are too die for. Those are toanz. And BoltThrower's 6505+ will certainly kick arse. And skill/talent is entirely a different subject when it comes to amp tone.
You get to appreciate tube amps at that level when you get to play and spend some time with them.
But again, we have our purposes, wattage preference, overall volume/sweet spot preferences, tone preference, budget, and marami pang iba, and taken collectively, that is somehow where we find/define our "niche" at the moment so to speak. Mine, I found it in the Line 6 Spider IV 212 now and I am not afraid to show it off in a gig. I'm actually looking into the ZT Club now since I want something really loud but lighter (freemansj fb ulit tayo haha).
But do they sound better than Alex's Diezel? Malabo ata. Hehehe. But I'm happy where I am now at my GAS journey.
No offense dtmateo, but I have tried firemodel's amps. Though I love my Line 6 Spider IV 212 very very much, I don't think my amp will "beat" his Diezel. To that degree I know where he is coming from. And his Marshalls are too die for. Those are toanz. And BoltThrower's 6505+ will certainly kick arse. And skill/talent is entirely a different subject when it comes to amp tone.
You get to appreciate tube amps at that level when you get to play and spend some time with them.
But again, we have our purposes, wattage preference, overall volume/sweet spot preferences, tone preference, budget, and marami pang iba, and taken collectively, that is somehow where we find/define our "niche" at the moment so to speak. Mine, I found it in the Line 6 Spider IV 212 now and I am not afraid to show it off in a gig. I'm actually looking into the ZT Club now since I want something really loud but lighter (freemansj fb ulit tayo haha).
But do they sound better than Alex's Diezel? Malabo ata. Hehehe. But I'm happy where I am now at my GAS journey.
Just be happy guys and play loud! :)
No offense taken. I can see where you are coming from. Bottomline is that it still boils down to preferences. There are very good tube amps and the sound of a Marshall does it for me. Others, not so.
I think the problem with this thread is that people think that every tube amp is superior to every SS amp which obviously isn't the case. In most cases, the differences in sound are even indistinguishable. Modeling has come a long way. Why do you think there are tons of multieffects patches that sound exactly like the original album recordings? Technology has moved forward. We are not in the 60's anymore. Multieffects pedals are capable of reproducing not just the tube amp sound but the whole chain including whatever digital processing was performed in the studio (and that's why patches sound like the album). New technology is infinitely more flexible and very capable and cheap.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on October 05, 2013, 07:46:30 AM
Well like vhunter said, just open your mind man. Be willing to try them out. It will be a great experience.
Of course preference won't always make a gear "ultimately better" because I could prefer to play a POD HD at night and a Mesa tube amp at gigs or I could prefer deep inside a Mesa Boogie Mark V over a Boss GT100 but though I have the extra cash I have kids to support but those will help you get an idea where you will lean to.
Again, just experience for yourself (internet and Youtube isn't really experiencing the actual material) and somewhere along the line you will know the best fit for you. Mind you, that can change as you live your music life and that's where the enjoyment of GAS lies.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ubersam on October 05, 2013, 07:51:07 AM
You seem to have some knowledge of what goes on in an amp, however, it is incomplete or inaccurate.
Dude, what you are cranking up is the preamp gain NOT the power amp gain.
So, what do you think happens in a non-master volume amp, like a JCM 800 1959 Superlead, when you turn up the "Volume" knobs? That's right, you are "cranking up the preamp gain". But, at the same time you are also feeding more signal into the power amp section ("cranking up the power amp gain" i.e. power amp saturation - a different debate altogether). Master volume amps can accomplish the former without necessarily doing the latter. Hitting the sweetspot in an amp is simply finding the spot where you like the tone and feel. For non-master volume amps, this could mean turning up to stadium/arena volume levels.
Quote
In that case it's neck to neck with a SS amp.
That would be wrong. I suggest you read up on solid state harmonic content vs. tube harmonic content. Simply put, when pushed into clipping/distortion, tubes produce harmonics that are more pleasing to the ear, predominantly the 2nd-order harmonics. Transistors on the other hand, not so much. But that's not to say transistors can't be made to sound good.
Quote
You are better off using a multieffects with real tube into a SS than lugging around a back breaking tube amp head and cab.
Multieffects* with tubes in them actually use the tubes as an input buffer. Buffers have a gain of 1:1, meaning, the tube isn't even going anywhere near clipping. You won't be having any of those even order harmonics to benefit the sound. So, "better" is a subjective term.
"Back Breaking"... well, you know what they say, "No pain, no gain." We all have different priorities, even with music. Some would prefer the ease of bringing a lightweight multi + ss combo to a gig. Some would prefer to bring a rig that they enjoy playing through, even if that rig is a monster 100lb rack system.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ubersam on October 05, 2013, 08:15:50 AM
No offense taken. I can see where you are coming from. Bottomline is that it still boils down to preferences. There are very good tube amps and the sound of a Marshall does it for me. Others, not so.
I think the problem with this thread is that people think that every tube amp is superior to every SS amp which obviously isn't the case. In most cases, the differences in sound are even indistinguishable. Modeling has come a long way. Why do you think there are tons of multieffects patches that sound exactly like the original album recordings? Technology has moved forward. We are not in the 60's anymore. Multieffects pedals are capable of reproducing not just the tube amp sound but the whole chain including whatever digital processing was performed in the studio (and that's why patches sound like the album). New technology is infinitely more flexible and very capable and cheap.
I wouldn't go as far as saying, "In most cases," rather, I'd say "in some cases." But that is when comparing SS vs. tube preamps (analog), not modelers. Modelers are completely different beasts. A good modeler dialed in just right can fool the average listener, maybe even a discerning listener. But for a player, like myself, it's not just about the sound: the feel has to be right as well. I've played with good sounding modelers and I've yet to play through one that 'feels' right. But that's me, other players might not notice or might not mind the 'feel'.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on October 05, 2013, 08:38:35 AM
I think the problem with this thread is that people think that every tube amp is superior to every SS amp which obviously isn't the case. In most cases, the differences in sound are even indistinguishable. Modeling has come a long way. Why do you think there are tons of multieffects patches that sound exactly like the original album recordings? Technology has moved forward. We are not in the 60's anymore. Multieffects pedals are capable of reproducing not just the tube amp sound but the whole chain including whatever digital processing was performed in the studio (and that's why patches sound like the album). New technology is infinitely more flexible and very capable and cheap.
the problem in this thread is that you said a line 6 is better than a dual rectifier ... and then you went on defending that point 'till you had to cop out by saying you hope tube amp owners can strum a chord ... and then you further copped out by saying that you cant play a tube amp in a decent volume anyway.
various forumers have proved you wrong and now you come out and say Multieffects pedals can reproduce tube amp sounds lol seriously?
man, you arent making friends with your pretentiousness. just admit it, you do not have much experience. you are not alone in that department. a lot of us here do not have that much experience. we have our own preferences based on practicality and budget, the difference is, we do not make a grand statement that our cheap entry level amp matches against industry standard and/or boutique amps.
in other words, most of us accept we don't know lot and admit it ... not pretend that our entry level amps and multi effects can be comparable to a real industry standard tube amp
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Rmansh on October 05, 2013, 08:48:36 AM
I wouldn't go as far as saying, "In most cases," rather, I'd say "in some cases." But that is when comparing SS vs. tube preamps (analog), not modelers. Modelers are completely different beasts. A good modeler dialed in just right can fool the average listener, maybe even a discerning listener. But for a player, like myself, it's not just about the sound: the feel has to be right as well. I've played with good sounding modelers and I've yet to play through one that 'feels' right. But that's me, other players might not notice or might not mind the 'feel'.
exactly
Sa tube you can gently pick a note and hear a lovely mellow sound, then strike hard it will roar. Sa ss its all the same. this matters a lot to most players aangat yun dynamics mo sa tubes. Mukhang mahilig sa muti si dtmateo so he probably got used to it. Try some nice tube amps theres a difference
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 05, 2013, 09:08:16 AM
ANONG KAGULUHAN 'TO? :-o
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skunkyfunk on October 05, 2013, 09:15:09 AM
Hay naku...
dtmateo, you are an idiot for saying a SS Line 6 Spider can beat a Dual Rectifier. :wave:
In the versatility department, yeah surely the Spider can crap on the Dual Rectifier. It's like comparing a Swiss knife to a high end kitchen knife. But if it is tone against tone (in terms of mimicking Recto tones) then obviously the Recto poops on any Spider amp any day, EVEN THE ESTEEMED SPIDER VALVES.
Do an A/B test. And you can say for yourself.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on October 05, 2013, 10:08:39 AM
dtmateo, you are an idiot for saying a SS Line 6 Spider can beat a Dual Rectifier. :wave:
In the versatility department, yeah surely the Spider can crap on the Dual Rectifier. It's like comparing a Swiss knife to a high end kitchen knife. But if it is tone against tone (in terms of mimicking Recto tones) then obviously the Recto poops on any Spider amp any day, EVEN THE ESTEEMED SPIDER VALVES.
Do an A/B test. And you can say for yourself.
Well you are the idiot for assuming that I like the Spider because it can mimic the dual rec. I like the Spider better than the dual rec because it does NOT sound like the dual rec.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on October 05, 2013, 10:22:08 AM
:-P :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 05, 2013, 10:57:34 AM
the problem in this thread is that you said a line 6 is better than a dual rectifier ... and then you went on defending that point 'till you had to cop out by saying you hope tube amp owners can strum a chord ... and then you further copped out by saying that you cant play a tube amp in a decent volume anyway.
various forumers have proved you wrong and now you come out and say Multieffects pedals can reproduce tube amp sounds lol seriously?
man, you arent making friends with your pretentiousness. just admit it, you do not have much experience. you are not alone in that department. a lot of us here do not have that much experience. we have our own preferences based on practicality and budget, the difference is, we do not make a grand statement that our cheap entry level amp matches against industry standard and/or boutique amps.
in other words, most of us accept we don't know lot and admit it ... not pretend that our entry level amps and multi effects can be comparable to a real industry standard tube amp
Very well said.
For me, tube amps really sound better than solid state. You can't just replicate the overall feel and response of amps equipped with vacuum tubes instead of transistors. For instance, I highly preferred my 1951 Supro over any modeling amps I've had and tried: Roland CUBE 30, Fender MUSTANG I, LINE 6 Spider, just to name a few.
From LINE 6 SPIDER vs. DUAL RECTIFIER to STRUMMING A CHORD to SHOWING THAT ONE CAN PLAY to CAMERAS to KEYBOARD and now to MODELING / MULTIEFFECTS over TUBE vs. SOLID STATE topic? So ano po ba talaga yung gusto nating ipaglaban? Ang sa akin lang, para kasing nagiging off topic na at mali pa yung mga katwiran just to prove one's personal claim over everyone is superior. Admit when you are wrong, and you will avoid embarrassment.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: juwanfidle09 on October 05, 2013, 11:58:05 AM
I used to be one of those who used to arrograntly think that "why in the hell should I take your advice or believe you, I can play better than you". :lol:
Pero yun nga, aabot talaga sa point na hindi mo dapat isipin na pagkumparahin yung gear at playing. Magkaibang magkaiba naman kasi yun e. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: rrmode1 on October 05, 2013, 12:02:02 PM
Meh. Yang argument ng modellers vs the real thing parang rapper lang yan. No matter how good your average white rapper is, he still ain't black. :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: randymarsh on October 05, 2013, 12:26:16 PM
doesn't matter kung solid state or tube amp. mas maganda tumunog ang gitara ko pag malinis at puro ang kuryente at kung galing sa independent supplier. pag meralco, tunog lata.
LOL :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on October 05, 2013, 12:26:55 PM
Mas gusto ko si eminem kesa kay dr dre
Wala lang
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: IncX on October 05, 2013, 12:48:04 PM
i can see the value of solid state naman .. awhile ago i was listening to nine inch nails' remix Downward Spiral album. it was all solid state and icy distortion ... it works for the style of music, because it was basically an anti-guitar album played with guitars.
there are some people who have a different approach to guitars and music ... but unfortunately, they aren't the same guys who would ever play My Sharona, or do stock pentatonic guitar solos.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on October 05, 2013, 01:28:50 PM
i can see the value of solid state naman .. awhile ago i was listening to nine inch nails' remix Downward Spiral album. it was all solid state and icy distortion ... it works for the style of music, because it was basically an anti-guitar album played with guitars.
there are some people who have a different approach to guitars and music ... but unfortunately, they aren't the same guys who would ever play My Sharona, or do stock pentatonic guitar solos.
i like my solid state amps. in fact one of my dream amps to covet is the ampeg vh140c. then a randall v2 archetype that's even a hybrid. i like the immediacy and that cold brutal solid state tone for my application. It sounds good to me. Even the harshness sounds pretty useful for me.
But I wouldn't go as far to say that they are better especially compared to the industry tube amp standards. Even if the Randall V2 can go as loud as a recto, it wouldn't sound as good.
Modeling has come a long way. Why do you think there are tons of multieffects patches that sound exactly like the original album recordings? Technology has moved forward. We are not in the 60's anymore. Multieffects pedals are capable of reproducing not just the tube amp sound but the whole chain including whatever digital processing was performed in the studio (and that's why patches sound like the album). New technology is infinitely more flexible and very capable and cheap.
Mas makakatipid ka pa nga kung bumili ka na lang ng Marshall tube talaga diba? Kesa gastos ka ng gastos every year upgrade ng upgrade sa mga cheap multi effects na kopya lang ng kopya ng orig. BAwat upgrade ng sub 500 dollar bracket products, mas mahal pa ginagastos mo. Bumili ka nalang ng Marshall na gusto mo isang gastusan lang.
New technology is not cheap. May mga cheap multi effects pero yung maganda at industry standard like the Axe Fx are priced as much as an ENGL or a Mark V. Mahal pa rin. At yung may mga Axe Fx also have the real tube amps they like and they just clone their settings to the Axe Fx. Bibili ka pa power amp at FRFR speakers na tig $1000 isa.
E matinong Marshall stack makaka score ka USD1.5K.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: DiMarzSiao™ on October 05, 2013, 02:55:55 PM
tutal., napunta sa multi/modeler. sagaran na ng OT.
I used to have the Zoom606., matagal ko ginamit yan. timpla lang ng timpla., sabi ko, hahabulin ko ang mga naririnig ko. then., humusay ako gumitara gamit ang multi + SS amp.
after a decade, nung nag decide na ko makipag-jam sa banda. dun ko "naramdaman" ang kaibahan ng tube amp.
mas lalo akong humusay.
after more years., (wala pa rin akong tube amp, dahil ako'y dukha lamang)., nagkakaruon pa rin ng pagkakataon na makagamit ng mga tube amps., at ang pakiramdam ko., ako na ang pinaka mahusay (pero, hindi ko pa din kayang tugtugin ang solo ng My Sharona., kulang pa ko sa da moves eh.)
:-D
BTT: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
-Yes. SS amp can sound good. but tube amps... ika nga ni papa Jack.. hmmmm., it's better.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 05, 2013, 03:06:32 PM
There are some exceptional SS amps too. One of them is the JC120 by roland. Its a fantastic amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: treblinkalovescene on October 05, 2013, 03:18:33 PM
Slayer or Slash should just have used a Behringer GDI on Brit mode. Sounds good at any volume. No cranking needed. And you sound like a Marshall! lol cheap technology working for you.
Nevermind that it is a copy of a Sansamp. A cheaper copy of a copy...of a copy.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: DiMarzSiao™ on October 05, 2013, 03:22:53 PM
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: teleleng on October 05, 2013, 03:36:06 PM
Nice arguments here from knowledgeable guitarists....Syensa na mga bros, noob pako sa magandang tube and ss amps that is why I really dig the posts here....
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: free2rock on October 05, 2013, 04:59:15 PM
Ay... Tapos na? :-(
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: brownbread on October 05, 2013, 05:07:33 PM
reading...... :nosebleed:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: SDMF on October 05, 2013, 08:14:01 PM
i like my solid state amps. in fact one of my dream amps to covet is the ampeg vh140c. then a randall v2 archetype that's even a hybrid. i like the immediacy and that cold brutal solid state tone for my application. It sounds good to me. Even the harshness sounds pretty useful for me. But I wouldn't go as far to say that they are better especially compared to the industry tube amp standards. Even if the Randall V2 can go as loud as a recto, it wouldn't sound as good.
I was hoping to see some feedback on Ampeg vh140 or Randall Rg100 es which is why i started looking at this thread. Kaso naging pataasan ihi na e.
Anyway, mayroon kasi dito sa area namin nitong dalawang amp na ito, kakatakot tignan baka mabili ko.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on October 05, 2013, 08:23:27 PM
I was hoping to see some feedback on Ampeg vh140 or Randall Rg100 es which is why i started looking at this thread. Kaso naging pataasan ihi na e.
Anyway, mayroon kasi dito sa area namin nitong dalawang amp na ito, kakatakot tignan baka mabili ko.
A recording studio near my place has an Ampeg VH140c. Let me see if I can try that one out. The thing with this Ampeg is when it is for sale, they go away fast. They are more famous that the Century and old RG Randalls. Alot of famous bands have used that Ampeg in their records. The group I'm currently jamming with has the regular V2. Have it in my house for a week now. Really loud with lots of headroom. The onboard EQ does the magic. It's the best hybrid amp I have tried.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: SDMF on October 06, 2013, 03:38:45 AM
Thanks dude. Nag intay intay lang din ako kaya ko nabili mga yan. So far satisfied ako, although syempre ang gas... Ive actually played solid state amps for quite a while wheb i was younger because i want lots of gain. Pero ibang panahon na ngayon e. Even with tube amps today, ang dami mapagpipilian high gain amps, amps that will sound very good at bedroom levels.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: SDMF on October 06, 2013, 03:39:48 AM
Thanks dude. Nag intay intay lang din ako kaya ko nabili mga yan. So far satisfied ako, although syempre ang gas... Ive actually played solid state amps for quite a while wheb i was younger because i want lots of gain. Pero ibang panahon na ngayon e. Even with tube amps today, ang dami mapagpipilian high gain amps, amps that will sound very good at bedroom levels.
Haha... totoo talaga. When we were young, all that matters is gain! There was this one CRATE SS amp in a studio back then, na sobrang tuwa ako I always use the amp's distortion instead of my pedal(s) OD+DIST. That was ages ago, tas kapag bata ka syempre... makarinig ka lang ng heavy na tunog sa amp, WOW na.
I'm not at all expert in tube amps pero nakakatuwang isipin na those little glowing tubes at the back make that wonderful sound. I own a beat up tweed from the early 90's. The cleans coming from it is divine. Nothing I've heard in SS. Although... sobrang lakas. 3 pa lang volume, reklamo na ang misis.
Onga pala, napansin ko... I've had no interest whatsoever in high gain tube amps dahil ang hanap ko sparkling cleans. Medyo sa pedals talaga ako nakuha ng dirt. Siguro kapag naka-try na ako ng "plexi" amp, magagas ako. But until then, happy pa ako sa amp ko.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on October 06, 2013, 05:23:20 AM
Haha... totoo talaga. When we were young, all that matters is gain! There was this one CRATE SS amp in a studio back then, na sobrang tuwa ako I always use the amp's distortion instead of my pedal(s) OD+DIST. That was ages ago, tas kapag bata ka syempre... makarinig ka lang ng heavy na tunog sa amp, WOW na.
I'm not at all expert in tube amps pero nakakatuwang isipin na those little glowing tubes at the back make that wonderful sound. I own a beat up tweed from the early 90's. The cleans coming from it is divine. Nothing I've heard in SS. Although... sobrang lakas. 3 pa lang volume, reklamo na ang misis.
Onga pala, napansin ko... I've had no interest whatsoever in high gain tube amps dahil ang hanap ko sparkling cleans. Medyo sa pedals talaga ako nakuha ng dirt. Siguro kapag naka-try na ako ng "plexi" amp, magagas ako. But until then, happy pa ako sa amp ko.
Yung dala ni Voltz na Plexi! Saraaaap ng cleans. Lakas din.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on October 06, 2013, 05:33:13 AM
^Ay hindi pala high gain ang plexi. Pero yung crunch nya. Yummy (sa vids).
Yun yung nasa birthday ni papi Rey no? Dami ko na-miss out na magandang gear nun. Tsk tsk.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on October 06, 2013, 05:43:27 AM
A recording studio near my place has an Ampeg VH140c. Let me see if I can try that one out. The thing with this Ampeg is when it is for sale, they go away fast. They are more famous that the Century and old RG Randalls. Alot of famous bands have used that Ampeg in their records. The group I'm currently jamming with has the regular V2. Have it in my house for a week now. Really loud with lots of headroom. The onboard EQ does the magic. It's the best hybrid amp I have tried.
Sige paki try mo balitaan mo kami.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 06, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
This is an interesting question... Alex and Miks? :?
I personally define sweet spot as that point in the power range of a guitar tube amp when the guitar sounds sustained, full of harmonics, pleasing to the ear and just plain inspirational. Its a very small window because more saturation either thru preamp or power amp can cause the sound to be too fizzy in a bad way. As Eric Claption once said, when you reach that oversaturated point; just back off a bit.
That being said, a lot of great sounding tube amps don't even need to be at their sweet spots to sound better than solid state or badly designed tube amps. And there seems to be a cliche with regards to sweet spots as loud. Not so if you use an inefficient speaker like a Celestion Heritage Greenback G12M which I use on Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber 22. On the other hand, the efficient Celestion Alnico Blues, have a distinct sound in my AC30 reissue when cranked and its loud at that setting. Even the design of the guitar cabinet and wood used affects loudness. So in theory, you can have a 100 watt tube amp driving a small 4 inch speaker cone in a plywood box rated at 100 watts and still be in a sweet spot and yet not sound anywhere as good or anywhere as loud as an AC30. People throw around talk about wattage without realizing that they should be talking about loudness in decibels.
Fact: A Great sounding tube guitar amp will beat a Great sounding solid state guitar amp. Other factors may affect your purchase decision and that includes price whether its justified or not from your limited point of view as non-guitar amp manufacturer. But tube amps for guitar are the standard in terms of sound AND feel while solid state amps for guitar are the standard for cheap and light.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on October 06, 2013, 07:50:51 AM
^Right in the kisser. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on October 06, 2013, 08:03:26 AM
^^Well agreed
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: freemansj on October 06, 2013, 10:16:46 AM
I personally define sweet spot as that point in the power range of a guitar tube amp when the guitar sounds sustained, full of harmonics, pleasing to the ear and just plain inspirational. Its a very small window because more saturation either thru preamp or power amp can cause the sound to be too fizzy in a bad way. As Eric Claption once said, when you reach that oversaturated point; just back off a bit.
That being said, a lot of great sounding tube amps don't even need to be at their sweet spots to sound better than solid state or badly designed tube amps. And there seems to be a cliche with regards to sweet spots as loud. Not so if you use an inefficient speaker like a Celestion Heritage Greenback G12M which I use on Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber 22. On the other hand, the efficient Celestion Alnico Blues, have a distinct sound in my AC30 reissue when cranked and its loud at that setting. Even the design of the guitar cabinet and wood used affects loudness. So in theory, you can have a 100 watt tube amp driving a small 4 inch speaker cone in a plywood box rated at 100 watts and still be in a sweet spot and yet not sound anywhere as good or anywhere as loud as an AC30. People throw around talk about wattage without realizing that they should be talking about loudness in decibels.
Fact: A Great sounding tube guitar amp will beat a Great sounding solid state guitar amp. Other factors may affect your purchase decision and that includes price whether its justified or not from your limited point of view as non-guitar amp manufacturer. But tube amps for guitar are the standard in terms of sound AND feel while solid state amps for guitar are the standard for cheap and light.
Thanks, Alex. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tonwins11 on October 06, 2013, 10:28:33 AM
I personally define sweet spot as that point in the power range of a guitar tube amp when the guitar sounds sustained, full of harmonics, pleasing to the ear and just plain inspirational. Its a very small window because more saturation either thru preamp or power amp can cause the sound to be too fizzy in a bad way. As Eric Claption once said, when you reach that oversaturated point; just back off a bit.
That being said, a lot of great sounding tube amps don't even need to be at their sweet spots to sound better than solid state or badly designed tube amps. And there seems to be a cliche with regards to sweet spots as loud. Not so if you use an inefficient speaker like a Celestion Heritage Greenback G12M which I use on Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber 22. On the other hand, the efficient Celestion Alnico Blues, have a distinct sound in my AC30 reissue when cranked and its loud at that setting. Even the design of the guitar cabinet and wood used affects loudness. So in theory, you can have a 100 watt tube amp driving a small 4 inch speaker cone in a plywood box rated at 100 watts and still be in a sweet spot and yet not sound anywhere as good or anywhere as loud as an AC30. People throw around talk about wattage without realizing that they should be talking about loudness in decibels.
Fact: A Great sounding tube guitar amp will beat a Great sounding solid state guitar amp. Other factors may affect your purchase decision and that includes price whether its justified or not from your limited point of view as non-guitar amp manufacturer. But tube amps for guitar are the standard in terms of sound AND feel while solid state amps for guitar are the standard for cheap and light.
Nga-nga ako dito. :-D
Food for thought na naman... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on October 06, 2013, 03:25:01 PM
@Nickson
Eto nasubukan ko lang kahapon. Touring gear ng Death Angel. Pero di siya modern high gain. Swabe ang clean at classic Marshall growl. Ganito sigurong Marshall hanap mo.
Yan for sure di mahahabol ng Marshall MG solid state ang tunog niyan. Kahit sa cleans.
BTT: I think we should have a distinction between solid state amps and digital modelers/digital rack amp or multi efx units. Like how we distinguish between Hybrid amps and tube amps, since hybrids are not really tube amps.
But then how do you distinguish between a Line 6 Spider and a Spider Valve HD? Pareho malayo tunog nila sa isat isa. Pero ang power amp section di talaga full 6L6.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on October 06, 2013, 03:38:13 PM
Eto nasubukan ko lang kahapon. Touring gear ng Death Angel. Pero di siya modern high gain. Swabe ang clean at classic Marshall growl. Ganito sigurong Marshall hanap mo.
Well you are the idiot for assuming that I like the Spider because it can mimic the dual rec. I like the Spider better than the dual rec because it does NOT sound like the dual rec.
I can't believe you fell for that. :wave: Sorry I was just trying to be my old self in the forum. Sorry for infuriating you. (Self-confessed flame bait)
Anyway, I know where you are coming from. Sometimes, staple amps may not deliver what a guitarist hears in his head. For instance, Alex Skolnick one time wanted to shop for a new Marshall and asked the sales rep if he can try out a then discontinued Marshall Mode Four. The Sales rep said "No one can dial in a good sound from it (Mode Four)." Nevertheless, Skolnick insisted to try it out. Lo and behold, he asked if they had 'more stocks' and the rep asked why? "This is the best amp Marshall ever made..."
Anyway, it is not really the issue of SS vs. tube... it is knowing what you like/hate from a certain brand and model and knowing if another amp can deliver, regardless if it is tube or not. In my case, I always end up liking tube amps... which is common for most players.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: kernelsalonpas on October 07, 2013, 01:48:32 PM
mema lang...
Tuck Andress uses SS paired with his 1949 L-5. Andy Summers used a roland JC on police albums. BB King uses a lab series L5 George Benson is an SS user.
on the other end of the spectrum you have Dimebag Santana on a Woodstock concert. Alex Lifeson
and many others...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 07, 2013, 07:07:34 PM
Can chinese tubes amps be as good as brandeds? Example, goldea NT copy vs Vox NT? basis natin quality of sound 'cause I know durability wise, I'll go with orig.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on October 08, 2013, 01:51:41 AM
Can chinese tubes amps be as good as brandeds? Example, goldea NT copy vs Vox NT? basis natin quality of sound 'cause I know durability wise, I'll go with orig.
Yung mga bugera infenium series na kopya ng mga famous amps ok tunog e. Malapit talaga sa pinaggagayahan nila. Chinese made with chinese tubes. First hand experience ko yung trirec vs the real triple recto tapos 6262 vs 6505+. Very small yung differences.
Pero yun nga baka talo ka sa long term durability at customer service. Pero tunog puwede na.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: free2rock on October 08, 2013, 06:40:15 AM
Can chinese tubes amps be as good as brandeds? Example, goldea NT copy vs Vox NT? basis natin quality of sound 'cause I know durability wise, I'll go with orig.
Tuck Andress uses SS paired with his 1949 L-5. Andy Summers used a roland JC on police albums. BB King uses a lab series L5 George Benson is an SS user.
on the other end of the spectrum you have Dimebag Santana on a Woodstock concert. Alex Lifeson
and many others...
Not entirely 100% Solid State users:
Tuck Andress early on used a Fender Twin driving JBL speakers and an early Acoustic Amp. Nowadays he uses preamps, compressors, mixers, headphone amps, etc. to protect his hearing according to his website. Andy Summers used a Fender Twin on the police albums too. BB King is a black face Fender Twin Reverb user prior to the Lab series and continues to use Twin Reverbs to this day. Santana continues to use the Mesa Boogie Mark 1, Dumble and Cesar Diaz amp. Alex Lifeson uses Hughes & Kettner and recently PRS amps? (somebody correct me on this...). George Benson now has a signature Fender Hot Rod Deluxe amp -- may video pa nga sa youtube.
And of course, my favorite, Dimebag has a signature amp with KRANK Amplification.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 08, 2013, 12:38:20 PM
Blackstar ID series vs Tube amps (whatever type it is). Mas ok naman siguro kesa line 6 vs dual rec. :idea:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bolt Thrower on October 08, 2013, 02:04:34 PM
Quote
And of course, my favorite, Dimebag has a signature amp with KRANK Amplification.
One he never got to use live or on record according to his roadie in a gw article. Being such an evh fan i sometimes wonder why dime never used 5150 amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on October 08, 2013, 03:05:30 PM
I just love the tightness of 5150 evh. >:D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: skrumian on October 08, 2013, 04:14:34 PM
Dime does not need sparkly clean. Just chug chug dirt with the magic of PA mixer.
Sent from my Avaya phone using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: gandydancer123 on October 08, 2013, 04:33:30 PM
I think, in a live situation..at a gig, or jam for example..
if you and your band are rocking it out like theres no tomorrow and the audience are bobbing their heads, jumping aorund, feeling the energy of your music and playing with joy...your amplifier is sounds GOOD! whether its SS or Tube...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ubersam on October 09, 2013, 03:16:58 AM
Alex Lifeson uses Hughes & Kettner and recently PRS amps? (somebody correct me on this...)...
Not a correction but just additional info. Around the time of the Vapor Trails album & tour, he added the H&K Zentera & Triamp MkII to his amp stable. The Zentera is a Modeler preamp into a SS poweramp. You could see it on stage but I don't know how much he used it. The Zentera is no longer in his current touring setup. Instead, he has the Fractal Audio AxeFX, along with Marshall, MesaBoogie and H&K tube amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: kernelsalonpas on October 09, 2013, 11:45:34 AM
^^^ yes.
not to mention countless other bands (dream theater, megadeth, etc) switching to digital in live concerts. oops SS vs Tube nga pala to.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: vhunter on October 09, 2013, 02:26:49 PM
I have an axefx 2 (had a 1) and gigged it extensively. Its a great tool but it has its limitations.
The axe records PHENOMENALLY, and FEELS GREAT!. Its really an amazing piece of equipment but its performance is limited by the FOH speakers.
First off, you usually have to bring your own monitor (which weighs a ton) have to bring a GCP or Acesss or liquidfoot (which weighs a ton also!) and even if you do all that, youre still at the mercy of the sound guy if he puts you out the FOH. Now, for large stages with IEM I can see why this makes alot of sense, specially where most of what the audience hears is FOH. The other thing that bogs down its use is the Stage mix. Most venues have 1 stage mix so sometimes, they dont let alot of guitar out of em and focus on vocals (which is really more important anyway). End of the day, for the venues I play, I find that getting an optimal performance out of the Axe is weak... however for recording and practice it is a joy to play. When I do play big gigs.. they are awesome too.
Tube amps have their place when they are trying to power the small club like a saguijo where what the audience hears is the amp. I also like them for more "set up" bars and I use them with a direct box like a palmer DI to get a good clean sound to the board.
End of the day it really depends on what you wanna use and how you wanna do it. No right or wrong answers... but for certain Genres, a tube amp will out perform a SS amp and for others, the reverse is true.
Now for playing my sharona... well...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: alalala on October 22, 2013, 10:23:26 AM
Quote
Now for playing my sharona... well...
he he well said ..btw. any opinions on the Axe fx vs the Eleven rack.. I have owned an 11R/studio monitor setup for a while now and it suits my needs for bedroom wanking as I have always needed only four or five presets that I have always liked no matter what modeller I used in the past.. but the curiosity for an axe fx has always haunted me.. is it really worth the plunge? The versus reviews are making it really difficult for me.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ermonski on October 22, 2013, 09:01:55 PM
para sa akin, mas maaappreciate ko ang tube amps kapag cranked up siya, kumbaga mainit init yung tubes. solid states are better for home use, mkakakuha ka pa rin ng tone ng gusto mo without disturbing the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on October 22, 2013, 09:53:05 PM
para sa akin, mas maaappreciate ko ang tube amps kapag cranked up siya, kumbaga mainit init yung tubes. solid states are better for home use, mkakakuha ka pa rin ng tone ng gusto mo without disturbing the neighborhood.
May small wattage na tube amps for bedroom use
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tanj on November 30, 2013, 06:17:19 PM
Mahirap and magastos ba guys ang magmaintain ng tube amp?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: bryanarzaga on November 30, 2013, 08:52:39 PM
Mahirap and magastos ba guys ang magmaintain ng tube amp?
maintenance? no,
now the tube matching + tone search, that can get expensive
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Al_Librero on November 30, 2013, 09:01:10 PM
The only difference which I had to actually adjust to when going from solid state to tube amps is the need for warm up and cool down periods. But even that is no biggie, unless you really really don't have the time to wait.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: magtataho7 on February 12, 2014, 06:00:59 PM
I wonder how the Blackstar ID series ranks vs. tube amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: lolwat on February 12, 2014, 06:29:15 PM
I wonder how the Blackstar ID series ranks vs. tube amps.
Went to a tone party and had it against a Mark V and EVH5153.
The two tube amps were great! Albeit, I realized I am satisfied with the ID60 already as it held great against them and dont need to spend more and more for a higher end amp. After that, I realized I wanted a 212 ID60.
ID60s lead tone is lutang na lutang and the whole amp shines at gig volumes and has ample treble.
Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: pualux on February 13, 2014, 12:58:31 PM
short answer: yes
There is a difference between 'better' and 'good enough.'
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on February 13, 2014, 09:39:39 PM
There is a difference between 'better' and 'good enough.'
If the comparison was a Randall RG head at Lazer/Blackstar ID60 vs a Laney Cub or Orange Tiny Terror or even a Mesa F-30 or the Transatlantic I tried, I'd go for the former amps. If we are talking about a Laney Ironheart vs. a Fender solid state, I will go for the Laney. If it was ZT CLub vs. a Vox AC30, Id go ZT. I think it will depend pa rin what models of A and B we are contrasting and for what purposes it will be used. Hard to stick a rule that Type A is always better than Type B. You really have to know what type of sound you want and for what you will use it for. Then you will define what is "better" for you.
For what it is worth, I love JamUp Pro and will play it over other an Fender twin any day. Again conditions and factors. :)
Pretty sure a lot will disagree but sharing my 2 cents.:)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on February 13, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
You believe that a zt club is better than a vox ac30?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on February 13, 2014, 10:20:41 PM
You believe that a zt club is better than a vox ac30?
For high gain pedals and amplfying the way I want it too, yes. I experienced the AC30 with the pedal of my choice and it didnt get the sound or thump I want from it.
Again, that is for me bud. From your questioning, Im sure you it is not the same for you.
But if it makes you feel good to know that the AC30 is a better amp than the ZT for your playing and what sound you are after, by all means. :) it is your tone any way and where you intend to take it!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on February 13, 2014, 10:32:58 PM
For high gain pedals and amplfying the way I want it too, yes. I experienced the AC30 with the pedal of my choice and it didnt get the sound or thump I want from it.
Again, that is for me bud. From your questioning, Im sure you it is not the same for you.
But if it makes you feel good to know that the AC30 is a better amp than the ZT for your playing and what sound you are after, by all means. :) it is your tone any way and where you intend to take it!
I normally respect another guitarists opinion of tone. I'm just surprised with your selection of a zt club over an ac30 coz I never heard a zt club demo that I liked. Do you have one that I can listen to?
I normally respect another guitarists opinion of tone. I'm just surprised with your selection of a zt club over an ac30 coz I never heard a zt club demo that I liked. Do you have one that I can listen to?
An amp should sound good on its own. Perhaps your pedal combination does not jive well with an ac30.
I think your last sentence answers your question as to why I think it is better. Add to that the thump i am looking for. I had the AC30 for an hour or two in a band setting and I didnt like it. Too bright an influence to my pedals. Lacked the character I was going for along with my pedal which was a Wampler Triple Wreck. I believe I recommended the AC30 to that guy din and who to buy from and that was after he told me what type of tone he was going for in an amp. You really have to know the goals behind the purchase in order to get closer what is "better" to that guy.
Dont get me wrong the TW will sound good on the AC30 to the satisfaction of most but i still was looking for something else. Again "better" will be different due to the goal intended.
It is okay if you don't respect my opinion on tone though. Don't mind it at all.
An amp should sound good on its own and my Blackstar ID60 great on its own when I played it as compared to the AC30 when I played it on its own. Hinting purposes again.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: chito_eoi on February 13, 2014, 10:50:01 PM
I think your last sentence answers your question as to why I think it is better. Add to that the thump i am looking for. I had the AC30 for an hour or two in a band setting and I didnt like it. Too bright an influence to my pedals. Lacked the character I was going for along with my pedal which was a Wampler Triple Wreck. I believe I recommended the AC30 to that guy din and who to buy from and that was after he told me what type of tone he was going for in an amp. You really have to know the goals behind the purchase in order to get closer what is "better" to that guy.
Dont get me wrong the TW will sound good on the AC30 to the satisfaction of most but i still was looking for something else. Again "better" will be different due to the goal intended.
It is okay if you don't respect my opinion on tone though. Don't mind it at all.
Ok I got it. You did not like the ac30 in combination with your pedals. That can happen in any amp and I am glad it worked well with the zt club. In your original comment I thought it was a standalone zt vs ac30. Peace.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on February 13, 2014, 11:03:09 PM
Ok I got it. You did not like the ac30 in combination with your pedals. That can happen in any amp and I am glad it worked well with the zt club. In your original comment I thought it was a standalone zt vs ac30. Peace.
No harm done royc. All of us have tone quests and I had a good share of mine over the years as well trying various tube and non tube amps. It really depends from which of the breed against which of the other breed you are comparing to arrive at a decision. But it is never a generality that breed A is always better than breed B for me. Playing through them gear personally to compare does help.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: pualux on February 13, 2014, 11:24:40 PM
If the comparison was a Randall RG head at Lazer/Blackstar ID60 vs a Laney Cub or Orange Tiny Terror or even a Mesa F-30 or the Transatlantic I tried, I'd go for the former amps. If we are talking about a Laney Ironheart vs. a Fender solid state, I will go for the Laney. If it was ZT CLub vs. a Vox AC30, Id go ZT. I think it will depend pa rin what models of A and B we are contrasting and for what purposes it will be used. Hard to stick a rule that Type A is always better than Type B. You really have to know what type of sound you want and for what you will use it for. Then you will define what is "better" for you.
For what it is worth, I love JamUp Pro and will play it over other an Fender twin any day. Again conditions and factors. :)
Pretty sure a lot will disagree but sharing my 2 cents.:)
Yes yes, you certainly have a point. But I made my comment with the assumption that we were comparing similar types/genres of amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Poundcake on February 14, 2014, 12:17:48 AM
Bri, try my AC30 :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on February 14, 2014, 07:25:43 AM
Haha. Sa brother ko yung VT50. Pinacheck lang nya sa akin, bagong bili lang from the Classifieds e. Sakto magkasama sila ng AC30 so ni-record ko na rin. Di naman ako complete tone snob, haha! Peavey Vypyr 30 ang practice amp ko para simple lang ang setup pero full rig pa rin during gigs.
What about the others? Which sounds better, the first or the second?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Poundcake on February 15, 2014, 10:20:40 PM
the 1st sounds better. coz obviously...it's the ac30. :-D
LOL. Well, there are only two choices anyway so it's almost a no-brainer. I tried to tweak the VT50's EQ to bring its sound closer to that of the AC30's Top Boost, but it just wasn't possible. I was able to lower the AC30's volume to match the VT50's because I added a Power Scaling circuit to it. The AC30 had better dynamic response compared to the VT50 especially when playing semi-cranked.
But to be fair to the VT50, it's a pretty good practice amp. It won't be able to do a 100% legit AC30 sound but at least it has other drive types and built-in effects.
Title: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on February 16, 2014, 07:04:07 AM
Sino ang maraming amps dyan? i'm interested in a recorded amp blind test. Not same levels, but with amps set to their sweet spots. I believe I prefer tube amps, but I know the amps in all the demos I heard so far so I could be biased.
Sent from
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shoegaze geezer on February 16, 2014, 12:10:47 PM
LOL. Well, there are only two choices anyway so it's almost a no-brainer. I tried to tweak the VT50's EQ to bring its sound closer to that of the AC30's Top Boost, but it just wasn't possible. I was able to lower the AC30's volume to match the VT50's because I added a Power Scaling circuit to it. The AC30 had better dynamic response compared to the VT50 especially when playing semi-cranked.
But to be fair to the VT50, it's a pretty good practice amp. It won't be able to do a 100% legit AC30 sound but at least it has other drive types and built-in effects.
yep, the vox vt series are good amps for practice. i owned a vox vt-40+ before and it produced decent enough sound. but compared to my vox ac30c2, it's just no contest. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: plugzzzz on February 16, 2014, 02:25:43 PM
pag nakagamit kana ng tube amp di kana babalik sa solid state yun lang masasabi ko
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on February 17, 2014, 03:48:35 AM
pag nakagamit kana ng tube amp di kana babalik sa solid state yun lang masasabi ko
sobrang totoo.
lalo na kapag nakatagpo ka ng magandang luma na amp. yung kumakanta at sumisipol at chimey na sobrang sweet eh kahit ano pang gitara or pedal ilagay mo ang effect eh parang nabubuhay ang patay.
dang!
iinggatan mo pa to the max!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: techbp on February 17, 2014, 09:21:27 AM
Di ko alam kung anong technical term dun sa "goma feel" ng de-tubo... "semento feel" ang ss (in general ha)
Pero itong blackstar id ko, pwedeng mag-goma, semento, aspalto feel.....:P
haha sorry for the analogy.
The bowteek term for "goma feel" is "organic" or "breathing" tone. For "semento feel," it's called "sterile."
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: gandydancer123 on February 23, 2014, 07:52:56 PM
Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
yes
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on February 23, 2014, 08:12:11 PM
It's a matter of preference. Napaka-habang discussion ito maski sa ibang forum. If we're talking accuracy, punch and power solid state class D ako. But if we're talking the "malambing" or sweet sound, which may sometimes to others, less fatiguing sa ears, hands down, tube amp ako. And depende din sa design ng tube and solid state amp. A poorly designed tube amp (SET or PP) can sometimes sound pangit vs an el cheapo but properly designed S/S amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: KMG on February 24, 2014, 12:08:48 AM
Quote
Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Listen to these recordings & try to estimate when sounds tube & when SS http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/files/projects/jcm800mv/fet/lnd150/head/samples/reamp/Fet_vs_Tube.zip Legend: SX_Y X - track Y - preamp SX_YG - only guitar track without mix
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Bart on February 24, 2014, 02:59:02 AM
Any other boutique solid state amp maker (not modeling/profiling amps) out there that is worth its salt aside from Pritchard? Makes me wonder why boutique amp builders concentrate in tubes if there's any contest between the two at all.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on February 24, 2014, 07:53:29 AM
Usually tubes kasi, mas "warm" sounding. Less fatuiging to the ears. Mas-smooth ang highs. Plus AFAIK, the distortion that is introduced by the tube amps (3rd harmonics ata) ay maganda sa ating pandinig.
Basically there are 4 types of tubes currently inplemented nowadays that i know. Tube buffer, hybrid (tube preamp & S/S amp), SET (Single Ended triode) and PP (Push Pull).
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on February 24, 2014, 09:42:42 AM
Listen to these recordings & try to estimate when sounds tube & when SS http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/files/projects/jcm800mv/fet/lnd150/head/samples/reamp/Fet_vs_Tube.zip Legend: SX_Y X - track Y - preamp SX_YG - only guitar track without mix
I believe that the clips are comparing a solid state preamp vs a tube preamp. It is not an amp comparison, if I understand it correctly.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: curiousdcat on February 24, 2014, 10:17:14 AM
I believe in technology and so far, SS is coming close to the sound of tube amps. There are current recordings that make the difference almost indistinguishable. However, there is one aspect of tube amps that technology is not able to come close to yet and that is the "feel" of a tube amp. The sag and responsiveness of a tube amp, even those with SS rectifiers, is still something that is missing in SS amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on February 24, 2014, 11:49:39 AM
I believe in technology and so far, SS is coming close to the sound of tube amps. There are current recordings that make the difference almost indistinguishable. However, there is one aspect of tube amps that technology is not able to come close to yet and that is the "feel" of a tube amp. The sag and responsiveness of a tube amp, even those with SS rectifiers, is still something that is missing in SS amps.
Yes. Some companies sell their S/S amps as tube sounding. But there are also companies that veer away from the typical "tube amp sound" and market their amplifiers as dynamic, close to reality description.
I personally think, electric guitars specifically, really need to use tube amps because electric guitars doesn't have a sound on it's own without an amplifier. I mean one cannot play an electric guitar without an amp. This i'm not sure pero since the electric guitar was first used, tube amp na ang kaparehas niya. So tayo, as listeners, would want to hear the electric guitars sa tube amps because "that's the way they sound" for us.
Ako, as a 2 channel hobbyist, i tried to listen to fast music (80's music specifically) using SET amp. Parang hindi ako nababagayan. Pero sa S/S amp, mas-lively siya and masbagay.
Parang turntable and cd comparison for me.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on February 24, 2014, 12:01:01 PM
of course lahat ng amps noon tube pa. yun ang technology noon at yun ang pinagbasehan ng halos lahat.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: KMG on February 24, 2014, 03:33:46 PM
Quote
I believe that the clips are comparing a solid state preamp vs a tube preamp. It is not an amp comparison, if I understand it correctly.
Both preamps was recorded via transformer coupled 5W fet poweramp. http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/fetpa_en.html
Quote
However, there is one aspect of tube amps that technology is not able to come close to yet and that is the "feel" of a tube amp.
All customers of my devices note that them has the same "feel" as tube prototypes. Maybe small difference in "tone colouring", but "structure of sound", dynamics are the same. http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/jcm800fetLnd150_en.html
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on February 24, 2014, 04:27:44 PM
Both preamps was recorded via transformer coupled 5W fet poweramp. http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/fetpa_en.htmlAll customers of my devices note that them has the same "feel" as tube prototypes. Maybe small difference in "tone colouring", but "structure of sound", dynamics are the same. http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/jcm800fetLnd150_en.html
Are you the Russian designer? Cool! My friend, Joel of Cycfi, is a believer of FETs. Here is his comment on my article on guitar amps:
"Nice blog, Roy! As usual! I think the reason why tube amps appear to be louder is because they are actually rated lower than the actual power --there's a bigger power margin. Unlike SS amps. BTW, you should note too that FET amps (compared to BJTs) sound closer to Tubes and some actually sound very tube-ey. "
All customers of my devices note that them has the same "feel" as tube prototypes. Maybe small difference in "tone colouring", but "structure of sound", dynamics are the same. http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/jcm800fetLnd150_en.html
That's great! I hope such tech and builds would be easily available so that they are easily experienced. I used to have a SS amp that came close to the tube sound but not the feel. It was a Marshall MOSFET Twin. Maybe it was the MOSFET part of it that made it sound very similar to an all-tube amp. Am not sure if that is close to what you build but I hope to be able to try yours (or something similar) soon. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Freak on February 26, 2014, 06:14:14 PM
budget is always the problem and maintenance. if the tube amp blows up, mahirap ang pagawaan..
but i'd still go for it...
mangangarap na lang naman, isasagad ko na...:-)
Mas madali mag palit ng tubes kaysa solidstate.most(but not always the case) tube amp problems the culprit is the tube.No need to troubleshoot like SS amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Rageworx on March 01, 2014, 05:07:37 AM
Plus there are low-budget tube amps out there na. Sa maintenance naman, as long as you turn it up and down the right way, tube amps will serve you well.
Mas madali mag palit ng tubes kaysa solidstate.most(but not always the case) tube amp problems the culprit is the tube.No need to troubleshoot like SS amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: titser_marco on June 11, 2014, 11:42:53 AM
An old thread, but what the hey. To my mind it all boils down to the application. There are situations [say in recording] that demand a sound that only a solid state amp can deliver --- the Roland JC-120 comes to mind --- and vice versa.
This sort of convo has been going on since I signed up for Philmusic [and possibly even earlier] but I've come to this conclusion after all those years: the best amp is the one that works for what you need to do at a given time. And as an extension of this for those who are thinking of buying an amp and are hard-pressed to decide whether to get an SS or a tube amp, remember this as well: know exactly what you want to do first and gear selection will take care of itself.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Taoistguitarist on June 11, 2014, 12:06:39 PM
+1
Truly the best way to know is to try it out for real. try as many amps as you can. Both tubes and solid state. We can all try and talk about what's what with these amps which is also very helpful but the best way is to experience them and find out what you need.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on June 11, 2014, 01:16:49 PM
Exactly. Preference talaga.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: bunyok23 on June 13, 2014, 01:33:49 AM
Tube amps must sound better because they are preffered by a lot of people. Thats why you see solid state designs trying to mimic a tube amp or the axefx modeling all the nuances of a tube amp including the output transformer parameters.
One noticeable fact when you play into a tube amp is the headroom.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on June 13, 2014, 03:43:41 AM
Tube amps must sound better because they are preffered by a lot of people. Thats why you see solid state designs trying to mimic a tube amp or the axefx modeling all the nuances of a tube amp including the output transformer parameters.
One noticeable fact when you play into a tube amp is the headroom.
Do you mean tube amps like SET or push pull have more headroom than solid state amps?
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Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: 24Fret on June 13, 2014, 07:43:41 AM
OK naman talaga ang tube amp, maganda talaga sya lalo na pag 3d sound hanap mo (lalo na pag open back ang cab) at ang saturated sound hanep sa ganda. Kaso most of the time bingi na ako at galit na ang mga kapitbahay pag nasa sweet spot ang amp. Mahahalata kong galit na sila kasi panay na ang busina ng kotse nila na wala naman problema tapos panay ang bagsak ng kanilang gate hahahah :) Kaya SS gamit ko (Tech21 amp) at madalas ngayon yung profiler na lang ang gamit ko straight to powered speaker. Kasing ganda ng tube ang tunog pero di kasing lakas (parang commercial). Yung tube amp ko na trade ko na nung isang araw, ang lakas kasi.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Taoistguitarist on June 13, 2014, 09:37:15 AM
Trademark 60 ba yan? Magandang SS amp yan! :wave:
Magaan pa :) easy to lug around for gigs.
In my case i use a 60w tube combo for gigs. Ambigat!! Kaya dinadala ko lang pag malapit sa venue ang parking! :nosebleed:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: 24Fret on June 13, 2014, 11:37:38 AM
^^ Tech21 TM120.... dalawa speaker kaya nanganganib rin itong madispatsa :) although "medyo" ok sya pag mahina ang sound.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: phoenix_rising on June 13, 2014, 03:02:13 PM
Blackstar ID series solid state that emulates the sound of 6L6, 6V6, EL34, EL84, KT66 and KT88's Real happy with the sound.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shredmaestrobri on June 13, 2014, 09:09:53 PM
Blackstar ID series solid state that emulates the sound of 6L6, 6V6, EL34, EL84, KT66 and KT88's Real happy with the sound.
+ 3000.
Best modeling amp I have tried and owned!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: monsterbot on June 13, 2014, 10:54:25 PM
Definitely!!!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on June 14, 2014, 12:21:04 AM
Masmalakas nga ba tumunog ang tube amps? Parang same volume lang compared sa similar wattage ng solid state.
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Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: lolwat on June 14, 2014, 12:47:35 AM
2 cents :-)
My long time friend bought an Ibanez TSA30H amp with matching 2x12. I got to pit it against my beater amp, a Marshall MG100DFX 1x12 combo. The Ibanez was a 30 watt tube amp driving two speakers, while mine was a 100 watt solid state amp driving one speaker. During his birthday party jam, it was clear that even at the highest volume settings on my Marshall, the 30 watt Ibanez was louder. Now this might be because of the speaker count, but I'm still a little convinced it's because the Ibanez was pushing more mid frequencies which helped it cut through the band.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on June 14, 2014, 06:00:27 AM
My long time friend bought an Ibanez TSA30H amp with matching 2x12. I got to pit it against my beater amp, a Marshall MG100DFX 1x12 combo. The Ibanez was a 30 watt tube amp driving two speakers, while mine was a 100 watt solid state amp driving one speaker. During his birthday party jam, it was clear that even at the highest volume settings on my Marshall, the 30 watt Ibanez was louder. Now this might be because of the speaker count, but I'm still a little convinced it's because the Ibanez was pushing more mid frequencies which helped it cut through the band.
Probably because of the speaker count. But if it sounded better, then those are the amp design and toobs \m/
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on June 14, 2014, 06:25:22 AM
It's a fender greta connected to a 1x12 with eminence RWB. I'm not sure of its config.
Yun ang concern ko sir. Most guitar amps are tube buffered or hybrid tube. Parang unfair to say that the tube amp is powerful over the other types unless controlled situations and proper comparison.
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Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on June 14, 2014, 06:47:38 AM
Yun ang concern ko sir. Most guitar amps are tube buffered or hybrid tube. Parang unfair to say that the tube amp is powerful over the other types unless controlled situations and proper comparison.
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My opinion is based on the small amps I have owned (I doubt you can compare high-wattage amps 'coz you will be deaf before they are maxed). My Blues Junior was way louder than my Vox Pathfinder even though they are both 15 watts. My 10 watt Marshall amp was much weaker than my Greta. My nephew's 10 or 15 watt amp has to be maxed to match my Greta's less than half setting.
That said, speaker sensitivity also makes a difference. I specifically used the RWB for its 101 dB sensitivity :-)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on June 14, 2014, 08:05:44 AM
wala pa diyan yung mga vintage amps na grabe ganda ng tunog.
masasabi mo na ang amp ay musical instrument talaga kasi kahit same make and model, kahit same vintage. magkaiba ang tunog.
parang yung sinabi ni Analog.Man na super ganda ng tunog ng vintage deluxe reverb ni Jim Weider. personal vintage deluxe reverb eh hindi man lang malapit kung tumunog.
Yun ang concern ko sir. Most guitar amps are tube buffered or hybrid tube. Parang unfair to say that the tube amp is powerful over the other types unless controlled situations and proper comparison.
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yes. the rule of thumb is 1 all tube amp watt is roughly 3 solid state amp watts
so a 15 watt tube amp will scream like a 45 watt solid state amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: starkiller on June 14, 2014, 01:45:16 PM
^^ i love tube amps, but i disagree.
within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.
the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).
because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable). on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.
it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on June 14, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.
the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).
because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable). on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.
it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.
Weel saif. the distortion of tube amps are pleasurable to the ears kasi.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on June 14, 2014, 10:47:58 PM
within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.
the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).
because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable). on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.
it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.
if you've read clearly, ang sabi ko naman "rule of thumb." (A means of estimation made according to a rough and ready practical rule, not based on science or exact measurement. )
whatever it is, its louder.
and i prefer my old amp over modern ones.
since there's more pleasure, then tube amps sound better.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: 24Fret on June 15, 2014, 06:31:12 AM
Blackstar ID series solid state that emulates the sound of 6L6, 6V6, EL34, EL84, KT66 and KT88's Real happy with the sound.
Hmmm very interesting. Sir would you kindly rate it from 0 to 100 on how much it realistically emulates tube response? :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: starkiller on June 15, 2014, 10:09:47 AM
analog.matt, not worries, i'm not attacking your preferences. i'm not trying to be overly scientific, nor trying to scrutinize your thoughts.
allow me to explain where i'm coming from:
i said what i said because i wanted to qualify that if the musician wants clean, and not overdriven sounds, tubes and solid state power will have the same loudness output.
use case: there are some applications (Ex: jazz, acoustic) that require a very clean output... much cleaner than the "clean" of a blues/rock player. for these applications, you really need a good amount of clean watts regardless of technology.
i hope this sorts things out. i'm just not a big fan of proclaiming that something is better without qualifying the application.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: karlwilson on June 15, 2014, 10:16:20 AM
analog.matt, not worries, i'm not attacking your preferences. i'm not trying to be overly scientific, nor trying to scrutinize your thoughts.
allow me to explain where i'm coming from:
i said what i said because i wanted to qualify that if the musician wants clean, and not overdriven sounds, tubes and solid state power will have the same loudness output.
use case: there are some applications (Ex: jazz, acoustic) that require a very clean output... much cleaner than the "clean" of a blues/rock player. for these applications, you really need a good amount of clean watts regardless of technology.
i hope this sorts things out. i'm just not a big fan of proclaiming that something is better without qualifying the application.
Very nice insights. I think you are not attacking his preferences. Neither is he (from my point of view). We are merely discussing the facts with hopes of clearing things up. I'm also a tube lover myself. And I agree with you na tubes sound wonderful.
However, allow me also to clarify matters. A hybrid tube (usually tube as preamp) is not per se, really a tube amp. Neither are tube buffered amps. Hence, some people (not knowing this principle) think that hybrids are tube amps, and tend to think that tube amps is louder or more powerful. Both tubes and solid state have their own merits.
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Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on June 15, 2014, 07:56:18 PM
Yun ang concern ko sir. Most guitar amps are tube buffered or hybrid tube. Parang unfair to say that the tube amp is powerful over the other types unless controlled situations and proper comparison.
Sent from my Nokia 3210 android using tapatim.
The Fender Greta is a real tube amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on June 15, 2014, 08:52:59 PM
i said what i said because i wanted to qualify that if the musician wants clean, and not overdriven sounds, tubes and solid state power will have the same loudness output.
True, except that tube amps are desired for their cranked and near breakup tones. For clean tones at any volume, I do not need a tube amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: phoenix_rising on June 16, 2014, 08:05:06 AM
Hmmm very interesting. Sir would you kindly rate it from 0 to 100 on how much it realistically emulates tube response? :)
Well i have a friend who was really into bowteek amps, expensive ones, i let him try my amp, i asked what he thought about it. He's test was the KT66 or KT88 tubes (expensive tubes in real life) He was tinkering with the amp and said, that's the character of the tubes, i know that sound.
For me naman, I always thought i was an EL84 or EL34 guitar player because that's what i've been hearing from a lot of guitar player, EL84's are the best tubes, didn't have a choice and just took their word for it for years, since i used the Blackstar ID series amp, i realized i was more on the 6L6 tubes.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Taoistguitarist on June 16, 2014, 11:24:01 AM
within its clean headroom, 1 watt is 1 watt regardless of the technology.
the reason why people think that tube amp wattage is louder than solid state is that beyond the clean headroom, tube amp saturation is still pleasant to human hearing (parang clean pa), while solid state saturation is not pleasant (buzzy/basag).
because of the above, the volume control range of tube amps are purposefully designed to go beyond the amp's clean headroom (because the post clean sound is still usable). on the other hand, solid state volume controls are purposefully designed to stay within the clean headroom.
it is the beyond clean headroom range that makes tube amps apparently louder.
Hmm interesting. There's this jamming place where i brought a tube amp( Laney LC50) a couple of times. I loved the way it handled the clean tone as well as the overdrive from a my pedals. The venue is quite small that i my amp volume is only at 3.
In the same venue there was a Roland Jazz Chorus( JC120 i think) amp which is quite well known for it's clean tone. So i decided to plug there to hear the difference. To me it sounded stiff and the drive pedals sounded a bit buzzier compared to the tube amp.
So i guess the that's the solid state vs the tube saturation going on. Parang mas gusto ko yung lagkit ba ng cleans ng tube amp? Parang mas may chime.
A few months ago a friend lent me a JC120 that i used for about a week at home. At very low volumes, medyo similar sounding yung clean tone nila. But once i stepped on an overdrive doon ko nahalata yung difference.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: spankyrigor on July 01, 2014, 04:50:01 PM
different sounds> parang cf martin vs taylor. single coil vs humbuckers
pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)
For guitar, I have to disagree. Its between better (tube amps) and inferior (solid state amps). Walang say ang magandang solid state sa magandang tube.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: chazkidlat on July 01, 2014, 08:13:42 PM
For guitar, I have to disagree. Its between better (tube amps) and inferior (solid state amps). Walang say ang magandang solid state sa magandang tube.
oo naman. tube amps talaga ang best tone. pero dipende rin sa gagamit i think>? dipende sa tone na hanap nya? or sa genre?
pero naimagine nyo ano kaya?:::: "pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)"
possible? or 20yrs from now? sana...
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: 24Fret on July 01, 2014, 08:59:06 PM
Ako naman tumigil na sa pagsamba ng tube amp nung marinig ko ang Kemper Profiling Amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on July 01, 2014, 09:35:53 PM
oo naman. tube amps talaga ang best tone. pero dipende rin sa gagamit i think>? dipende sa tone na hanap nya? or sa genre?
pero naimagine nyo ano kaya?:::: "pero cguro 10 yrs from now kaya na mag copy ng digital or hightech analog SS amps ang tube amp (sana)"
possible? or 20yrs from now? sana...
Well I have been around since the first amp modeling hardware came out in the 90s. Ang Guess what? Its 2014. And the amps that are breaking ground are tube.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on July 01, 2014, 09:36:49 PM
Nagawa na yan ng AxeFx. And it really does sound good!
Alex in the studio and big venues axe will kill any tube amp. Practicality pa lang panalo na specially on a loud stage. For small room and the bar gig there's still nothing like a tube amp.
As a rule of thumb if you're dependent on monitors the axe will just kill it.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 19, 2014, 08:59:34 PM
Tubero ka din tukayo di ba? Nagbubuo ka pa nga ng mga tube amps from ground up!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: chazkidlat on October 22, 2014, 10:05:19 AM
im confused
Solid state pre amp ba to?
60watts
2 x 6L6 GC
1 x 12ax7
May reverb sya. Posible na reverb loop nya yung 12ax7 Tpos solid state yung pre amp nya? Kaya ba ng isang 12ax7 ang 60watts? Nakaka depress haha i need your help guys!
May reverb sya. Posible na reverb loop nya yung 12ax7 Tpos solid state yung pre amp nya? Kaya ba ng isang 12ax7 ang 60watts? Nakaka depress haha i need your help guys!
Pwedeng two-stage tube preamp using a single 12AX7 tapos solid state na phase inverter using high-voltage FETs (probably MOSFETs). Pwede ring solid state yung preamp tapos tube yung phase inverter. Mahirap masabi unless ma-inspect yung circuit nya. Pero malamang yung, former, kasi magdedesign ka na rin lang using one 12AX7, why not use it in the preamp. Well, yan ang hula ko.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: agent_otso on October 23, 2014, 08:43:56 AM
kanya kanya pa ding preference yan sir.but for me, ganito ang preference ko haha pag open area - tube,pag bar at medyo kulob - SS. :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jimny on October 23, 2014, 09:34:12 AM
Quote
If yes, Sino sino ang may kaya? Mang raul? Who else?
spankyrigor can help you
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: johnravacio on October 23, 2014, 10:07:52 AM
May reverb sya. Posible na reverb loop nya yung 12ax7 Tpos solid state yung pre amp nya? Kaya ba ng isang 12ax7 ang 60watts? Nakaka depress haha i need your help guys!
All tube 'to brad! This is similar or clone circuit to Mesa Boogie Mark I. The first 12ax7 used as a driver and the 2nd is for the reverb tank and/or FX Loop.
Check out the schematics of Boogie Mark I here:
http://schems.com/manu/mesaboogie/mesaboogie.htm
If you're from Imus or Bacoor Cavite, I can help you with it. Let's make it "Hot Rodded" hahahah :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretzburner on October 23, 2014, 12:47:35 PM
If Stuff 060G talaga model nyan it's all tube. My Stuff 020 is solidstate preamp and tube power amp (EL34 and 12ax7)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: chazkidlat on October 24, 2014, 01:10:52 PM
All tube 'to brad! This is similar or clone circuit to Mesa Boogie Mark I. The first 12ax7 used as a driver and the 2nd is for the reverb tank and/or FX Loop.
Check out the schematics of Boogie Mark I here:
http://schems.com/manu/mesaboogie/mesaboogie.htm
If you're from Imus or Bacoor Cavite, I can help you with it. Let's make it "Hot Rodded" hahahah :)
Sure pm me ur facebook account! Confused ang ako kung isa lang 12ax7 nya for pre amp..pano na pshae inverter? Lets chat about this sa fb hahaha mahaba habang usapan to
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: johnravacio on October 24, 2014, 03:13:31 PM
Sure pm me ur facebook account! Confused ang ako kung isa lang 12ax7 nya for pre amp..pano na pshae inverter? Lets chat about this sa fb hahaha mahaba habang usapan to
johnravacio din fb ko brad, usually night time lang ako nag-lologin. Anyway, if you can take a picture of your amps gut and can post it here and/or http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=101243.1250 that would be great!
A lot of DIYers can help you with it. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 27, 2014, 08:57:57 AM
Pwede ko pa ba ipa rewire sa specialist convert to 12ax7 tube pre amp?
If yes, Sino sino ang may kaya? Mang raul? Who else?
Thanks brothers!
Pwede kaso hindi practical, parang yang bungalow na lalagyan mo ng second floor. Marami kang aalisin at pagsisiksikan mo sa maliit na space yung ilalagay mong bago. May gastos na sayang tapos hindi pa properly designed. Tapos tulad din ng mga remodelled house minsan hindi mo rin gusto yung outcome. Kung ako yan hanap na lang ako ng full tube na gusto mo ang tunog. Iba iba rin kasi ang tube amp.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on November 09, 2014, 02:33:29 PM
It depends on the type of music that you play..
For me, when I went Tube, I never looked back to SS.
I read somewhere that Dimebag used a solid state amp with Pantera.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on November 09, 2014, 04:41:58 PM
pag chug chug talaga may SS na binabagayan.
pero may detubo din na maganda sa chugchug.
there are tube amps and there are good tube amps. old tube amps are really awesome. may "magic". hindi porket luma, same year and model, magkatunog na. nope. meron talaga maganda bumuga.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: bryanarzaga on November 09, 2014, 09:50:20 PM
For me, when I went Tube, I never looked back to SS.
I read somewhere that Dimebag used a solid state amp with Pantera.
the Randall RG100 are tight sounding amps and they do sound good
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on November 10, 2014, 07:18:11 AM
pag chug chug talaga may SS na binabagayan.
pero may detubo din na maganda sa chugchug.
there are tube amps and there are good tube amps. old tube amps are really awesome. may "magic". hindi porket luma, same year and model, magkatunog na. nope. meron talaga maganda bumuga.
I agree. I tried a soundtest between my vintage JCM 800 vs a friends re issue. Magkaiba.Mas makapal ang tunog ng vintage and mas open, bigger sound. Though mas ma gain ung re-issue medyo manipis compared sa vintage. Not that manipis ung tunog ng reissue, just that nas makapal ung tunog ng vintage.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: soundhole8 on November 10, 2014, 01:39:53 PM
Mga sir, noob question po.
Anong tube amp combo ang marerecommend nyo? Budget is 40K or lower. I want an amp with a very good clean sound. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jun_gats on November 10, 2014, 01:51:17 PM
there are tube amps and there are good tube amps. old tube amps are really awesome. may "magic". hindi porket luma, same year and model, magkatunog na. nope. meron talaga maganda bumuga.
I agree. I tried a soundtest between my vintage JCM 800 vs a friends re issue. Magkaiba.Mas makapal ang tunog ng vintage and mas open, bigger sound. Though mas ma gain ung re-issue medyo manipis compared sa vintage. Not that manipis ung tunog ng reissue, just that nas makapal ung tunog ng vintage.
I would agree, dipende din sa setup ng equipments. mix and match lang tlga until you get the right combination and settings.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: randymarsh on November 10, 2014, 05:24:39 PM
Anong tube amp combo ang marerecommend nyo? Budget is 40K or lower. I want an amp with a very good clean sound. Thanks in advance.
peavey classic 30, laney LC30
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on November 10, 2014, 05:30:48 PM
Basta pag clean sound, fender amps ang da best. Dyan sila nakilala, aside from the guitars. However im not comfortable with the new small fender amps.i had reliability issues with the pro jr. Hindi ko din alam ano pasok na models ng fender na de tubo sa 40k.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: nickson on November 10, 2014, 05:36:53 PM
Classic 30 cleans sound good.. Not sure about reliability issues, I read somewhere they tend to heat up more than the usual tube amps. (??)
No objection sa clean ng Fender amps, I love my Deluxe Reverb Reissue.
I still own a Classic 30 which I bought back in 2005. Good price for the money. Back then it was only Php 25k brand new sa Audiophile. Main gig amp ko yun nung may banda pa ako, ngayon nagagamit ko nalang siya pag nagbabakasyon ako sa Pinas (once a year). Tatlong beses palang ako nagpalit ng tubes, no biasing required dahil auto bias yung classic 30, basta matched quad yung tubes.
About the heating issues, lahat naman ng tube amps umiinit. Mas obvious lang yung sa classic 30 kasi grill lang ang protection para hindi aksidenteng mahawakan yung nagbabagang tubes. :D Reliability wise, the controls are starting to crackle due to lack of use.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on November 10, 2014, 07:09:17 PM
If Tube Cleans I'd go with Fender. nothing beats a Fender on Cleans
If you really don't really need tube breakup. Roland Jazz Chorus goes for around 40k. Solid State but sounds great and reliable.
Hetfield uses them and has been recorded with many times.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on November 10, 2014, 08:03:34 PM
i think reliability issues had more to do with the small fenders that were made in mexico than the classic 30. classic 30 is...well...a classic. many swear by them.
i think many had problems with the Pro Jr, and far far less problems with the Blues Deluxe.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: randymarsh on November 10, 2014, 11:44:36 PM
mas madali mag maintain at magrepair ng tube amps IMO. hindi tulad ng solid state na mas maraming components. usually caps, transformer at fuse ang madalas masunog sa tube amp at kelangan lang palitan. ingat lang sa charged capacitors baka makuryente :D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: johnravacio on November 11, 2014, 07:41:15 AM
Anong tube amp combo ang marerecommend nyo? Budget is 40K or lower. I want an amp with a very good clean sound. Thanks in advance.
Goldea which is distributed by Guitar Pusher is reasonably good at low prices. Upgrade mo nlng yung capacitors.
However, if you are obsessed with branded ones then Fenders are good for you. Get the Fender Blues Jr as they are designed with ULTRA-LINEAR, very good cleans really.
In terms of reliability, well anything could fail these days on Mid-priced and below amps :P
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: chazkidlat on November 11, 2014, 08:31:34 AM
If Tube Cleans I'd go with Fender. nothing beats a Fender on Cleans
If you really don't really need tube breakup. Roland Jazz Chorus goes for around 40k. Solid State but sounds great and reliable.
Hetfield uses them and has been recorded with many times.
Found one selling jc120 for 15k 2nd hand sa fb selling group page. Emergency yata pregnancy issues. Sana avail pa. Pahanap nalang
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: soundhole8 on November 11, 2014, 11:42:57 AM
Thank you for your inputs. This will surely help me in choosing the right tube amp for me. Actually, mga next year pa naman ako kuha ng tube amp (GAS Planning for 2015 :-D). I just want to do lots of research before spending my money on amps.
Musta naman po ang Fender Amps when using guitar effects? Is it pedal friendly? Would it also sound good if you use British Distortion type of pedals??
Thanks! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on November 12, 2014, 05:54:19 AM
Musta naman po ang Fender Amps when using guitar effects? Is it pedal friendly? Would it also sound good if you use British Distortion type of pedals??
a lot of pedals, specially the higher end and boutique pedals are voiced for fender amps.
yung marshall nga na bluesbjreaker ko pag nilagay sa Fender amp ko, dami naloloko na marshall siya. but my fender amp is already above average sounding on its own.
on the other hand, kaya mahal din ang boutique pedal, kasi tinetest nila sa mga mamahaling amp. doon naka voice sila.
but there are "classic" pedals that are always associated with certain amps types.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: soundhole8 on November 12, 2014, 08:40:56 AM
Musta naman po ang Fender Amps when using guitar effects? Is it pedal friendly? Would it also sound good if you use British Distortion type of pedals??
a lot of pedals, specially the higher end and boutique pedals are voiced for fender amps.
yung marshall nga na bluesbjreaker ko pag nilagay sa Fender amp ko, dami naloloko na marshall siya. but my fender amp is already above average sounding on its own.
on the other hand, kaya mahal din ang boutique pedal, kasi tinetest nila sa mga mamahaling amp. doon naka voice sila.
but there are "classic" pedals that are always associated with certain amps types.
Thanks for the info bro. "Ipon Mode ON" for Fender Tube Amp. :-D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: sargento on August 27, 2015, 11:43:21 AM
UP
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: dtmateo on August 27, 2015, 02:16:50 PM
up para sa mga duwag sa FB. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: sargento on August 27, 2015, 02:25:19 PM
my answer is yes. because i own one. i have not experienced a behringer though but am quite convinced that the you tube demo is quite close. i think mateo and matt de leon (your friend) will agree with me.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: arkeetar on August 30, 2015, 11:33:00 AM
Can you guess what type of amp?
No pedals, straight to amp.
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13197565
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: lolwat on August 30, 2015, 11:05:33 PM
Whatever amp that is, it's got a very lovely, classic-sounding compression that reminds me of vintage amps turned all the way up. I'm guessing something along Marshall designs. A low-watt plexi-style perhaps?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: arkeetar on August 31, 2015, 04:00:13 PM
Whatever amp that is, it's got a very lovely, classic-sounding compression that reminds me of vintage amps turned all the way up. I'm guessing something along Marshall designs. A low-watt plexi-style perhaps?
Thanks for listening bro nice di ba, hindi ko na papatagalin pa, pero ito yun :)
yung soundclips pala recorded through a tascam dr-05
si yeyeh yung gitarista gamit strat ko :lol:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on September 18, 2015, 09:02:01 AM
I can't believe this debate has not been settled yet... Tube is the way to go for performance. Solid state dor practice.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on September 18, 2015, 09:45:57 AM
Para natapos ang debate, blind A/B test na lang.
Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk 4
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: reid111 on September 27, 2015, 10:05:12 PM
iba tunog ng de tubo haha napatunayan q na to sa experience ko
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Master At Arms on September 30, 2015, 04:26:34 AM
Tube amps > Solid State
Kemper and AX FX 2 closing the gap though.
My .02 centavos
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: marcus_gloom on September 30, 2015, 05:13:08 PM
In my experience, with same speaker size. Lamang ang tube. May something siya na extra, di ko masabi kung ano eh, pero iba talaga, lalo na pag may drive pedals na.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: emil_murillo on October 24, 2015, 10:08:41 AM
Myth or truth? Can you tell the difference if it will be heard during a blind test?
Hi guys! forgive me po i would like to answer lang po the very title.. so please excuse me po!..
¶ Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
☼ Answer ►Yes po! → generally po tube outputs are class A → analog → high fidelity.. although a lot solid states you can find now a days are hi-fi na rin.. But the difference from an analog/class A/hi-fi tube is that they are using high voltage (more or less 400V).. so the primary effect of using high voltages are having this characteristics called → "natural compression".. Then again, a lot of solid state amplifiers out there that can handle 700V, more than a power tube can handle.. ►► So what makes vacuum tubes better than solid states even though solid states can handle greater than 400V-500V???.. I don't want to bleed our nose too much now so i must speak in a very plain and simple words as i can po.. Here goes ►►► tungsten filament works @2200ºC-2700ºC while an oxide-coated filament works @1000ºC while a high voltage solid state works @-65ºC-150 ºC.. that's why we need to make vauum tubes takes sufficient heat to sound better.. while, solid states degrades in a constant and hotter operation.. (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/winking/winking0066.gif)
Those were just sound factor of course.. solid states are more electrical efficient than vacuum tubes and more steady electrical characteristics.. so sound quality does not change pretty much over time, unlike vacuum tube of course which you have to have spares to replace it especially when sounds diminished.. Hence, snap-on packaging → for easy replacement..
your partner in passion! -Emil
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 24, 2015, 12:21:44 PM
Hi guys! forgive me po i would like to answer lang po the very title.. so please excuse me po!..
¶ Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
☼ Answer ►Yes po! → generally po tube outputs are class A → analog → high fidelity.. although a lot solid states you can find now a days are hi-fi na rin.. But the difference from an analog/class A/hi-fi tube is that they are using high voltage (more or less 400V).. so the primary effect of using high voltages are having this characteristics called → "natural compression".. Then again, a lot of solid state amplifiers out there that can handle 700V, more than a power tube can handle.. ►► So what makes vacuum tubes better than solid states even though solid states can handle greater than 400V-500V???.. I don't want to bleed our nose too much now so i must speak in a very plain and simple words as i can po.. Here goes ►►► tungsten filament works @2200ºC-2700ºC while an oxide-coated filament works @1000ºC while a high voltage solid state works @-65ºC-150 ºC.. that's why we need to make vauum tubes takes sufficient heat to sound better.. while, solid states degrades in a constant and hotter operation.. (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/winking/winking0066.gif)
Those were just sound factor of course.. solid states are more electrical efficient than vacuum tubes and more steady electrical characteristics.. so sound quality does not change pretty much over time, unlike vacuum tube of course which you have to have spares to replace it especially when sounds diminished.. Hence, snap-on packaging → for easy replacement..
your partner in passion! -Emil
Bale sir you mean kapag masmainit, masmaganda sound quality?
Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk 4
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: emil_murillo on October 24, 2015, 12:34:34 PM
Bale sir you mean kapag masmainit, masmaganda sound quality?
Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk 4
Yup! kase that's the general rule sa tube amps.. :) kailangan painitin (heater) pa ang vacuum tubes.. kasi mas maganda tunog nila kapag mainit keysa malamig pa or baka may noise pa yun kapag malamig pa.. Hence, kaya may heater sila at kailangan naka-standby muna sila para kahit hindi naka-ON ang amplifier eh buhay ang heaters ng tubes at para painitin muna sila kaya kailangan naka-standby muna sila ng ilang minutes.. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: alvinratsim on October 28, 2015, 12:20:15 AM
E di wow
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: kawal on October 28, 2015, 10:54:43 AM
i own both. tube sounds better. big rock concerts use tube. they are more expensive too. no brainer.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on October 30, 2015, 09:47:59 AM
Hi guys! forgive me po i would like to answer lang po the very title.. so please excuse me po!..
¶ Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
☼ Answer ►Yes po! → generally po tube outputs are class A → analog → high fidelity.. although a lot solid states you can find now a days are hi-fi na rin.. But the difference from an analog/class A/hi-fi tube is that they are using high voltage (more or less 400V).. so the primary effect of using high voltages are having this characteristics called → "natural compression".. Then again, a lot of solid state amplifiers out there that can handle 700V, more than a power tube can handle.. ►► So what makes vacuum tubes better than solid states even though solid states can handle greater than 400V-500V???.. I don't want to bleed our nose too much now so i must speak in a very plain and simple words as i can po.. Here goes ►►► tungsten filament works @2200ºC-2700ºC while an oxide-coated filament works @1000ºC while a high voltage solid state works @-65ºC-150 ºC.. that's why we need to make vauum tubes takes sufficient heat to sound better.. while, solid states degrades in a constant and hotter operation.. (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/winking/winking0066.gif)
Those were just sound factor of course.. solid states are more electrical efficient than vacuum tubes and more steady electrical characteristics.. so sound quality does not change pretty much over time, unlike vacuum tube of course which you have to have spares to replace it especially when sounds diminished.. Hence, snap-on packaging → for easy replacement..
your partner in passion! -Emil
Yes the difference can be heard. Subukan nyo kasi.
Tube talaga the best.
Pero sa jamming jamming, praktisan.
Mag solidstate ka na 100 - 150 watts.
Para may sipa pa din.
I recently found an amp.
Solidstate pero parang Mark V kung sumipa.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shoegaze geezer on October 30, 2015, 11:30:14 AM
Yes the difference can be heard. Subukan nyo kasi.
Tube talaga the best.
Pero sa jamming jamming, praktisan.
Mag solidstate ka na 100 - 150 watts.
Para may sipa pa din.
I recently found an amp.
Solidstate pero parang Mark V kung sumipa.
what particular amp is that sir? i'm curious.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: titser_marco on October 30, 2015, 06:30:30 PM
Again, most solid state amps and modelers can get really close to the recorded tone of a tube amp. The most important difference I think lies in the feel, and it may be because of the fact that most solid state designs employ a lot of negative feedback, something that tends to make an amp feel stiff - tube based or otherwise.
A good resource is this article by Peavey and how he came up with the concept around Transtube technology. It doesn't explain everything that makes a tube amp feel different from a solid state amp, but his reasoning is quite clear is very illuminating on the subject.
Find it here: http://peavey.com/monitor/pvpapers/Chapter3.pdf
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: KennyKen on October 31, 2015, 07:06:04 AM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: r_chino18 on October 31, 2015, 07:24:50 AM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
How come?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: officebiker on October 31, 2015, 08:00:39 AM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
What if you have a tube amp but your band sucks, your musical preference sucks and you have terrible acne?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 31, 2015, 08:19:19 AM
Paano kung madaming pera yun bibili?
Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk 4
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ubersam on October 31, 2015, 09:27:22 AM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
Touch sensitive na ba ang mga amp sims ngayon?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: firemodel55 on October 31, 2015, 12:32:26 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
Today, there are great sounding tube amps at bedroom level. A lot of tube amps I own sound great on their own without being cranked. I still believe that driving two 12 inchers even at low volumes beats the amount of wire around a set of computer speakers or headphones. Still more punch and fidelity along with a paper cone that pushes the air. The argument can be made that all you have to do is connect your pc's line out into a tube amp's power section driving a guitar speaker... however you lose the expressiveness of the tube guitar amp's preamp with a digital preamp.
With great sounding tube amps, its like driving a Ferrari at 1 and driving a spaceship when cranked at 10.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jajacabel on October 31, 2015, 12:34:34 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
<_<
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: tongski_02 on October 31, 2015, 03:56:56 PM
"rule of thumb if you own a tube amp CRANKED it to ENJOY it" by a guitar/amp guru
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: slowspeeder on October 31, 2015, 05:05:15 PM
my personal description:
solid state amps: turbocharged 4 cyl engine (a little fizzy) tube/valve amps: V-8 engine (more muscle, more thump)
with the advent of modern and more efficient PA system, even a medium wattage tube amp can be miked and sound big onstage. during the classic 70's rock era, wall of 100 watt stacks dominated the stage to deliver the needed power in big arenas. But nowadays, PA's can do the trick.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: joel_marcelo on November 03, 2015, 06:21:11 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
Susmar.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Boxedking on November 03, 2015, 08:33:11 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
I disagree. I have experience with both tube amps and amp sims. Iba pa rin ang feel ng tube amp kumpara sa amp sims. They may sound close kapag sa compressed MP3 file mo na pinakinggan. Pero kapag live, malayong malayo. I once ab'ed a 6505+ combo with its amp sim counterpart. Dun pa rin ako sa de tubo.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: jgmredor on November 04, 2015, 05:56:17 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
do u own a tube amp? Or ur just deaf
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: siore on November 13, 2015, 08:52:15 AM
Amp sims are dog balls. It sucks also when it gets outdated by another version or another product which has 'better' technology. Then you get compatibility issues or when stuff is not working. It kinda feels like working on a computer, and it is. I hate that and that's why I call my IT guy when the PC's not working.
The issues with tube amps are much easier to manage. I can trace a schematic easily and know how to solder. Most of the time a bad tube just needs replacing. Also, the classic tones are hard to beat, it might sound dated on some amps, but it will always be sought after.
I consider amp sims easy band aid solutions to when I can't bring an amp or record an amp, but my preference will still be amps.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: analog.matt on November 13, 2015, 04:55:14 PM
Siore,
how about the Yamaha THR Series. are they okay?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: curiousdcat on November 13, 2015, 06:50:12 PM
IMO, the beauty of a tube amp is most felt when playing one. Sometimes it is very hard to tell when a tube, solidstate or DAWs were used to record a guitar track. But once a guitar player plugs into a tube amp, the sag (especially with rectifier tube-equipped amps), feel and dynamics of playing through it are totally inspiring.
For the sake of discussion, how do we treat amps like the Fender Super Champ XD? It has pre-amp tubes, output tubes with a digital modeler in it?!? :-o "Hybrid" is already taken. :-D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: siore on November 13, 2015, 11:35:36 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
i own a bassman head. I've tried lots of tube amps as well. i hope though that you get to try a Matchless Lightning - it's only a 15watt amp. it will break your heart. i actually forgot all the tube amps i've tired. here's the kicker - it's a solid state amp! :) (im kidding. of course it's a tube amp.)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on December 17, 2015, 12:16:05 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
Here's Kenny Ken:
I guess kung ganyan ang taste mo sa tone, playing and mukhaan then you definitely don't need a tube amp. :-o
But seriously, I do agree that ampsims and modelers have come a long way. I have a Deluxe Reverb reissue here and Amplitube 3 in my system. The Deluxe reverb model in Amplitube 3 can seriously hang with the real thing, in terms of sound. I make a living doing film scoring and Amplitube is pretty much all I use when recording electric guitar parts. Pero kung tone AND feel ang paguusapan, tube amp pa rin, especially in a live setting where you can turn up the amp to its sweet spot. :)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on December 18, 2015, 06:55:10 PM
I have a markv. Compared it. Sobrang onti ng difference.
Compare 8k to 120k.
Now go find one. :)
Fyi, the ibanez is 150 watts. It can kick as hard as a tube amp.
Its for tight metal. Like the markv. You want boomier lows? Get a recto, thats another story.
This is certainly interesting. Would you be able to use the same cab for the TBX and Mark V when you record the clips? That way we'd be able to hear the character of each amp given the same guitar and speaker/cab combination.
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Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: titser_marco on December 18, 2015, 08:07:17 PM
Double post
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: royc on December 19, 2015, 09:40:24 AM
IMO, the beauty of a tube amp is most felt when playing one. Sometimes it is very hard to tell when a tube, solidstate or DAWs were used to record a guitar track. But once a guitar player plugs into a tube amp, the sag (especially with rectifier tube-equipped amps), feel and dynamics of playing through it are totally inspiring.
For the sake of discussion, how do we treat amps like the Fender Super Champ XD? It has pre-amp tubes, output tubes with a digital modeler in it?!? :-o "Hybrid" is already taken. :-D
Fender Super Champ XD is an amp modeller I believe :-)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: shoegaze geezer on December 19, 2015, 11:58:50 AM
Fender Super Champ XD is an amp modeller I believe :-)
yeah. much like vox's vt series.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: gleniqz on January 25, 2016, 03:36:10 AM
Where can i buy a tube (EL84) for my Peavey Classic 50? Anybody who knows where can i purchase? sinuyod ko ang Raon wala akong makita. wala na daw avaialble. Napunta ako sa Watson's may pumakyaw daw. Hoping for somebody to help me. Kung maari sana, local shop lang. TIA
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: sargento on January 25, 2016, 07:17:18 AM
Where can i buy a tube (EL84) for my Peavey Classic 50? Anybody who knows where can i purchase? sinuyod ko ang Raon wala akong makita. wala na daw avaialble. Napunta ako sa Watson's may pumakyaw daw. Hoping for somebody to help me. Kung maari sana, local shop lang. TIA
Where can i buy a tube (EL84) for my Peavey Classic 50? Anybody who knows where can i purchase? sinuyod ko ang Raon wala akong makita. wala na daw avaialble. Napunta ako sa Watson's may pumakyaw daw. Hoping for somebody to help me. Kung maari sana, local shop lang. TIA
If spankyrigor doesn't have them, you could also try www.epektos.com
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Ralph_Petrucci on January 26, 2016, 03:17:24 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ngayon ko lang nabasa to =))))))
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: fretboard on January 26, 2016, 03:23:15 PM
If you'll only buying a Tube Amp just to use it in your Bedroom...magsasayang ka lang ng pera.... Mag software emulation ka na lang using your computer
''But..but Ampsims sound so synthetic and fake''... I call BullSh!t on that...even a FREE LePou Amp will beat a Goldea Amp at any given day...Malayo na ang narating ng Ampsims ngayon
@ralph
paminsan minsan may mga BS parin talagang claims :lol:
si CJV kaya yan?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: prtscrsysrq on September 06, 2016, 03:38:07 PM
https://www.trueaudio.com/at_eetjlm.htm
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Skybox on September 06, 2016, 03:58:43 PM
Nice share. I do wonder what happened since this article was posted in 1994. Seems like there were no major leaps in SS amp development that could have rendered Tube amps obsolete to date.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on December 02, 2016, 09:02:16 AM
tube amps are what they are. they sound fantastic compred to solid states, but you have to take care of them.
even recorded axefx tones sound artificial and lifeless. dont ask me to rpove it.. google them.
practice = solid state = less money for upkeep
performance = tubes amps = best sound.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: redjaztin on December 02, 2016, 03:16:30 PM
:wave:
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Skybox on December 02, 2016, 06:54:48 PM
I'd say they feel better under the fingers which in turn inspires me to play better.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Skybox on December 02, 2016, 07:01:20 PM
For tube amp manufacturers though, these videos are pretty scary.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: ermonski on December 02, 2016, 07:01:46 PM
reading the word "tube" reminds me to clean pipes regularly.
wtf
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Magus on December 03, 2016, 08:15:30 AM
For tube amp manufacturers though, these videos are pretty scary.
I wonder if these things are already emulating the tube sag and response.. I mean digital means they can time the response..
for me its just.. if I want a tube amp sound Ill get a tube amp. if I want solid state Ill get one too..
I heard a recording of an axefx on one of the prog bands here.. emulating a recto sound.. it just sounded pale.
yes it sounded like a recto..
played by a robot guitarist.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Letour on June 29, 2018, 12:00:49 PM
Following the old rule of searching of topics before starting a new one, I decided to do the former.
From owning solid state amps (Princeton 65 and a 15G) almost all of my guitar life (had a Peavey Valveking 8 for 6 months), I can say that tube amps does sound sweeter than solid state. Didn't want to use the "better".
Yesterday I bought this at 50% off from Crescendo Rob Mag. It's a 2015 anniversary issue and maybe that's why is half off. Don't have a pic, but here is how my "boutique" looking-made-in-china amp looks like. It has two 12AX7 and two 6V6 tubes
Plugged a Sheraton II with Alnico Classic humbuckers and the ringing from a semi-hollow was prominent. The amp was only have Tone 5 and Volume 3.
Then I plugged my recently acquired 2018 Epi LP PlusTop Pro and a Les Paul through tubes is as sweet at melted butter on hot corn on the cob. Turning on the boost function was like adding salt to the butter.
I still have to test the amp thought my modest pedal board (Phase 90+Shredhead+Corona Chorus+Carbon Copy+HOF reverb) and my Vox Tonelab EX. But I know I made a right decision.
My spouse said I also made the right choice because of the 50% discount.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: curiousdcat on June 29, 2018, 01:04:32 PM
My spouse said I also made the right choice because of the 50% discount.
And also, that Century goes well as an additional motiff among other furnishings in the house unlike regular amps! :-D Congrats!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: titser_marco on July 01, 2018, 11:51:26 AM
Years after I last read this thread, I can say that at the very least, tube amps PLAY better than solid state amps. Solid state amps sound nice but there is something about tube amps that are so responsive that I have yet to feel in any of the SS amps I have tried.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Jellybean on July 01, 2018, 01:33:54 PM
Years after I last read this thread, I can say that at the very least, tube amps PLAY better than solid state amps. Solid state amps sound nice but there is something about tube amps that are so responsive that I have yet to feel in any of the SS amps I have tried.
I recall seeing this thread few years back and I was using a Peavey Envoy 110 at that time which I loved. I wasn't playing blues back then though nor a strat and I was just into alternative rock mostly on humbuckers and several pedals (delays and modulations) I didn't require a responsive amp back then because even my playing skills were not dynamic lol. I'm still no where near Eric Johnson but I have definitely improved :idea: and playing through a tube amp with just an OD pedal and tinkering around with the knobs and switch of the guitar gave me more satisfaction than all the pedals I used to own. So do tube amps sound better than a SS? It's a matter of preference, depending on what you like to play on what you want to get out of it.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: guitaricci on July 01, 2018, 09:59:52 PM
Play hybrids (tube pre-amp, solid state power amp) para you get the best of both worlds! Haha :-D
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Jellybean on July 02, 2018, 12:29:38 PM
same thoughts hahaha sa hybrids kasi you also get the bad of both worlds.
Fragile Tubes/extra care + limited power amp.
I've had both hybrid styles (tube pre + ss power, ss pre + tube power) at several points in my gear life and some things I figured:
1. The "best elements" of tube circuits vary from player to player. Some go for the sag that tube circuits have when they stress their power supply, some go for transformer saturation, etc etc. So in that regard it's really tricky to nail it down.
2. The cab and speakers have the most influence over the resulting tone. Try hooking up your various amps to various cabs and hear it for yourself.
3. Tubes aren't fragile as we'd like to think they are. Have brought my tube combo amp to PH gigs in a cab / Uber and have not broken any tubes. You have to remember that back when all they had were tube amps in the 50s and 60s, they regularly toured with these in trucks or vans on bad roads in the US!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Ralph_Petrucci on July 02, 2018, 04:19:36 PM
I've had both hybrid styles (tube pre + ss power, ss pre + tube power) at several points in my gear life and some things I figured:
1. The "best elements" of tube circuits vary from player to player. Some go for the sag that tube circuits have when they stress their power supply, some go for transformer saturation, etc etc. So in that regard it's really tricky to nail it down.
2. The cab and speakers have the most influence over the resulting tone. Try hooking up your various amps to various cabs and hear it for yourself.
3. Tubes aren't fragile as we'd like to think they are. Have brought my tube combo amp to PH gigs in a cab / Uber and have not broken any tubes. You have to remember that back when all they had were tube amps in the 50s and 60s, they regularly toured with these in trucks or vans on bad roads in the US!
agree with items 1 and 2. 3 is subject to discussion because I have had tubes breakdown for no apparent reason (per mang raul it was humidity), and my friends have these "ghost" tube breakdown as well. definitely more sensitive than a pure SS amp. ;)
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: titser_marco on July 02, 2018, 08:53:58 PM
agree with items 1 and 2. 3 is subject to discussion because I have had tubes breakdown for no apparent reason (per mang raul it was humidity), and my friends have these "ghost" tube breakdown as well. definitely more sensitive than a pure SS amp. ;)
The old tubes - RCA, GE, etc - actually are tougher than the newer tubes! The toughest new tubes I've seen so far are the JJ's, so if you find NOS tubes grab them!
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Ralph_Petrucci on July 03, 2018, 10:23:33 AM
I use a bias probe for my 6L6s but in the absence of one I just consult the tube data sheet, check the B+ and then do some math to make sure it hovers around 60-70% dissipation when idle.
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Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Ralph_Petrucci on July 04, 2018, 09:52:30 AM
I use a bias probe for my 6L6s but in the absence of one I just consult the tube data sheet, check the B+ and then do some math to make sure it hovers around 60-70% dissipation when idle.
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Kosang Marco, anong amp ito?
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: pallas on July 04, 2018, 03:11:43 PM
I use a bias probe for my 6L6s but in the absence of one I just consult the tube data sheet, check the B+ and then do some math to make sure it hovers around 60-70% dissipation when idle.
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Sorry pre not familiar with that one....if I use a multimeter will it do? Also this is serious stuff.....he he kakatakot.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: titser_marco on July 04, 2018, 03:48:19 PM
Sorry pre not familiar with that one....if I use a multimeter will it do? Also this is serious stuff.....he he kakatakot.
You can do it with a multimeter, sure. With 6L6GCs, I usually keep the bias voltage on pin 5 at around -52v, and bring it down to about -45-49v to taste as long as I don't get any red-plating. Have had my share of shocks, but still around hehehe.
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: peeves24 on July 04, 2018, 08:23:25 PM
Twin Reverb, Bassman 135, the Dumble-based amp I built, this Guyatone Flip with EL34s, this Marshall Plexi-based head a rebuilt from an old Raul Quesada built amp
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Jellybean on July 05, 2018, 12:09:29 PM
Twin Reverb, Bassman 135, the Dumble-based amp I built, this Guyatone Flip with EL34s, this Marshall Plexi-based head a rebuilt from an old Raul Quesada built amp
Nakakainggit yun usapan di ako makarelate masyado :eek: gusto ko matuto magbuild ng amp pero walang time magself study
Title: Re: Do tube amps really sound better than solid state?
Post by: Ralph_Petrucci on July 05, 2018, 12:12:33 PM