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Author Topic: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design  (Read 1706 times)

Offline skunkyfunk

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Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« on: September 16, 2009, 02:13:45 PM »
1.  The 3-saddle tele Bridge.  They are a PITA to intonate but funny how much a vintage Tele/Broadcaster loses value if you replaced it with a compensated bridge assembly.
2.  "Vibrato" bar not "tremolo"  (Imagine, "With Synchronized Vibrato" on yer Strat)
3.  I see Fender amps saying "Vibrato" Channel whereas it should be "Tremolo".
4.  Since when did Leo discover that blending pickups in the Strat can yield great tones? 
5.  Truss rod adjustment is a PITA on vintage Fenders.



Offline juan_alderete

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 02:20:20 PM »
1.  The 3-saddle tele Bridge.  They are a PITA to intonate but funny how much a vintage Tele/Broadcaster loses value if you replaced it with a compensated bridge assembly.
2.  "Vibrato" bar not "tremolo"  (Imagine, "With Synchronized Vibrato" on yer Strat)
3.  I see Fender amps saying "Vibrato" Channel whereas it should be "Tremolo".
4.  Since when did Leo discover that blending pickups in the Strat can yield great tones? 
5.  Truss rod adjustment is a PITA on vintage Fenders.


i agree on this one. lagi kang mag tatanggal ng neck sobrang hassle

Offline blackwingchai

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2009, 02:30:44 PM »
Vibrato is a musical effect, produced in singing and on musical instruments by a regular pulsating change of pitch, and is used to add expression and vocal-like qualities to instrumental music. Vibrato can be characterised by the amount of pitch variation ("depth of vibrato") and speed with which the pitch is varied ("speed of vibrato").

kaya tama lang na vibrato ang tawag dun bar na yun sa guitara, dahil it change the pitch not the volume.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrato
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Offline nathanmanansala

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2009, 02:38:15 PM »
1.  The 3-saddle tele Bridge.  They are a PITA to intonate but funny how much a vintage Tele/Broadcaster loses value if you replaced it with a compensated bridge assembly.
2.  "Vibrato" bar not "tremolo"  (Imagine, "With Synchronized Vibrato" on yer Strat)
3.  I see Fender amps saying "Vibrato" Channel whereas it should be "Tremolo".
4.  Since when did Leo discover that blending pickups in the Strat can yield great tones? 
5.  Truss rod adjustment is a PITA on vintage Fenders.
1. agree. drop in compensated saddles but keep the original saddles stashed somewhere. so you can put them back on if you have to sell.
2. its weird that they never corrected that no? pero people would argue that leo was an accountant (with an interest in electrical engineering), he wasnt a musician. he never even learned to play guitar.
3. see #2. para siguro di na din kailangan baguhin yung tawag sa trem ng strat.  :lol:
4. players discovered it themselves. the guys at fender just listened to them and started throwing in the 5 way switch instead of the 3 way.
5. bad trip nga yun. its one reason i've kept using same string guage for years now. :lol: (i dont have vintage fenders btw, just guitars with "vintage specs"). although sa tele, meron naman cavity so you can reach the truss rod nut by just taking the pickguard off. di mo na kailangan tanggalin yung neck.

ako i dont like that you have to take the pickguard off a tele to adjust the neck pickup height. at least you only have to do it once.

pero, i like the old tuners better. the ones where you can stick the sharp end of the string down a hole sa middle of the tuning post. keeps them from ripping apart the innards of your guitar bag or poking your fingers when you try to stick a cigarette on the headstock.

Offline deadlifted

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 03:25:56 PM »
4. players discovered it themselves. the guys at fender just listened to them and started throwing in the 5 way switch instead of the 3 way.

i read somewhere na kaya na-discover un, the 3-switches before sometimes got stuck in between kaya na-blend yung sound ng 2 pickups. i dunno if this is true.
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Offline juan_alderete

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 03:30:00 PM »
i read somewhere na kaya na-discover un, the 3-switches before sometimes got stuck in between kaya na-blend yung sound ng 2 pickups. i dunno if this is true.

and to add to this, i watched a vid on youtube sometime ago that you can produce another sound by sticking it between 5th and 4th, and 1st and 2nd, now thats alot of sound.  pero ako pinapalitan ko ng 3 way ang strats ko from 5 way, hehe, i rarely use the combinations eh. at mas madaling pihitin
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 03:42:16 PM by juan_alderete »

Offline dantuts

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2009, 03:40:50 PM »
yung ibang vintage amps na nakita ko. hindi naka properly grounded
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Offline nathanmanansala

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 06:29:23 PM »
and to add to this, i watched a vid on youtube sometime ago that you can produce another sound by sticking it between 5th and 4th, and 1st and 2nd, now thats alot of sound.  pero ako pinapalitan ko ng 3 way ang strats ko from 5 way, hehe, i rarely use the combinations eh. at mas madaling pihitin
parang di ko gets how that would work. positions 2 and 4 route the hot wire of 2 pickups to output. putting it between 1 and 2 would do what? route the bridge to output and "slightly" send some of the middle pickup's signal to output? its a switch not a pot.

hanapin ko yung youtube vid na yun

Offline ierofan

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 09:07:45 PM »
parang di ko gets how that would work. positions 2 and 4 route the hot wire of 2 pickups to output. putting it between 1 and 2 would do what? route the bridge to output and "slightly" send some of the middle pickup's signal to output? its a switch not a pot.

hanapin ko yung youtube vid na yun


"stratocaster tricks" ata yung title nun, napanood ko nadin yun. di ko pa nga lang nasubukan.
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Offline BAMF

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2009, 11:48:53 PM »
Ako.

1.The Bigsby is daput. I had a guitar with one before. Use it and you're guaranteed to be out of tune. Nope I don't mean nosedives. Do anything more than a "wiggle" and you're gone.
2. The LP Tune-o-matic bridge is a POS. You can't really intonate it because the play is so small. Bend hard on it and it will surely put the guitar out of tune.  I still don't know till know why I won't have my LP any other way tho.

3. The tremolo on Fender mustangs are real POS's. Made of sheet metal and easy to make, they appeared on Sta Mesa guitars in the 80s. Had the misfortune of owning one of those as my first guitar. During a time when Van Halen was in vogue, and you thought that the trem bar was for divebombing...oh never mind. It combines the POS'ness of the Tune-o-matic and the Bigsby.
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Offline BAMF

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 11:50:29 PM »
i read somewhere na kaya na-discover un, the 3-switches before sometimes got stuck in between kaya na-blend yung sound ng 2 pickups. i dunno if this is true.

Both Clapton and Hendrix used to stick matchsticks in the switch slot to hold the selector in the "in between " positions.
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Offline juan_alderete

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2009, 07:32:43 AM »

"stratocaster tricks" ata yung title nun, napanood ko nadin yun. di ko pa nga lang nasubukan.

yeah thats exactly it, nahanap ko ulit yung link.


Offline titser_marco

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2018, 10:04:31 AM »
1. The death cap in vintage amps is real fatal (literally) flaw in most amps of that time.
2. Other cheaper vintage amps didn't get their B+ through a transformer (thus isolating it) but directly from the [strawberry] AC mains.
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Online guitaricci

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2018, 12:33:23 AM »
“Today’s guitars are the best that we’ve ever made” -John Cruz 2018, Fender Master Builder

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Online Deadwing

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2018, 10:05:10 AM »
Factory bridges on Fender Jazzmasters and Jaguars. The first thing most guitar owners do is switch them up with replacements to keep the strings stable (Mustang Bridge, etc.).

Online gunlak

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2018, 11:02:37 AM »
Factory bridges on Fender Jazzmasters and Jaguars. The first thing most guitar owners do is switch them up with replacements to keep the strings stable (Mustang Bridge, etc.).

The main issue is that Fender never bothered to have the neck pocket angled so that there's more break angle behind the bridge. Also consider back in the 60's, when it was released, the norm was heavy gauged strings. think 52-12's as the norm. String skipping wouldn't have been a problem back then with the extra tension.

So my solution when setting up offsets is always placing shims on the neck pocket as thick as a cut out piece of 60 grit sandpaper or even two when the break angle is still isn't optimal.
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Offline gandydancer123

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2018, 03:29:51 PM »
yung truss rod adjustment sa neck heel... yung gibson weak neck, and yung dugtungan ng LP
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Online Deadwing

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2018, 11:15:27 PM »
Not sure if one would consider it a flaw, but for anyone who's had an SG--man that neck dip has its drawbacks.

Offline cacophony

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2018, 11:46:02 PM »
Not sure if one would consider it a flaw, but for anyone who's had an SG--man that neck dip has its drawbacks.

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Offline treblinkalovescene

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2018, 03:03:53 PM »
The main issue is that Fender never bothered to have the neck pocket angled so that there's more break angle behind the bridge. Also consider back in the 60's, when it was released, the norm was heavy gauged strings. think 52-12's as the norm. String skipping wouldn't have been a problem back then with the extra tension.

So my solution when setting up offsets is always placing shims on the neck pocket as thick as a cut out piece of 60 grit sandpaper or even two when the break angle is still isn't optimal.

Models like the BTJM and the Classic Player stuff are made with steeper break angles on top of the moved trem position. That's also worth noting.
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Online gunlak

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2018, 12:48:00 AM »
Models like the BTJM and the Classic Player stuff are made with steeper break angles on top of the moved trem position. That's also worth noting.

yeah worked on a couple of HH CP's. OSG's bane with the modern trem and adjustomatic bridge.

never noticed that on the BT's, will check once i get my hands on em again.

==========

The shallow break angle behind the nut on the D and G string  (A string on bass) of vintage spec fenders without the second string tree.

People who doesnt know how to cut strings properly will get tuning, pinging, and skipping problems especially on open strings.

the 70's got it right with the addition of the 2nd string tree, and modern staggered tuners.
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Online pallas

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2018, 08:08:03 AM »
The les paul headstock with three on each side. The string angle, The neck angle, the truss rod cavity.
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Online pallas

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Re: Flaws in vintage guitar and amp design
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 11:36:18 AM »
Tele ashtray bridge gets in the way of picking behind bridge pickup.
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