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The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: Machine_Head on February 02, 2006, 10:46:03 AM
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Ive been having intonation problems with my new old guitar. When i do an A chord on the 2nd fret everything sounds good, but when i do a G5 at 5th string 10th fret it sounds really off. Ive had it fixed twice already. Is there something wrong with my guitar? Anything i can do to fix it?
Thanks!
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You've had it "fixed" twice where?
I suggest you have Jun Castro take a look at it.
2501 P. Nuņez Street
Sta. Ana, Metro Manila 1009
Philippines
(near Sta. Ana Church)
For inquiries, call or text:
(02)589-3428
0919-870-0456
0918-341-7710
http://www.roadtone.tk
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I had it fixed by a luthier. First time for general setup. When i got the guitar the neck was kinda warped and volume pot was busted. 2nd time to fix the wiring and stuff, but i asked him to refix the intonation, coz it was still off. But its still off after all of that.
I'll try to fix it myself first coz i spent quite an amount of money for fixing the gutiar already. If it doesnt work out, then i'll have it worked on by Jun.
Thanks!
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i definitely recommend jun! Mad scientist ng guitar yun! it only took him one look at my guitar for him to know my intonation was off! Add the fact that i've adjusted the intonation of the guitar several times. :shock:
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Mad scientist huh.. Hehe... :D How much did you spend to have it intonated. You can PM me on that.. Just wanna know how much i have to save up. :)
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lupit nga si jun kesa sa isang alam kong si A..(secret)
nagparepair ak acoustic (fender dg-4) P950 lang kay jun samantalang kay tooooot e P3,500 daw :shock: :shock: :shock: napautot nga ako kay toooot e :?
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Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation. I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.
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Ouch! Ano sira pinarepair mo?
lupit nga si jun kesa sa isang alam kong si A..(secret)
nagparepair ak acoustic (fender dg-4) P950 lang kay jun samantalang kay tooooot e P3,500 daw :shock: :shock: :shock: napautot nga ako kay toooot e :?
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Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation. I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.
haha!
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Wait lang mga sirs, i hope this wont turn into a who's-better-than-who thread.
Anyway, I understand that there is no perfectly intonated guitar unless you have it fitted with the Buzz Feiten system. But how much error is considered normal?
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well i won't argue .that's what i thought when i brought my guitar there. Anyway i'll let you know if his idea of perfect intonation is better than what i did. :D
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Ouch! Ano sira pinarepair mo?
lupit nga si jun kesa sa isang alam kong si A..(secret)
nagparepair ak acoustic (fender dg-4) P950 lang kay jun samantalang kay tooooot e P3,500 daw :shock: :shock: :shock: napautot nga ako kay toooot e :?
yung brge pinadikit ko ulit nkaangat kc at adjust rod for 10's.ayus na ngayun:)
btw warning posts ko:)
there's no harm in trying...
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iba kasi approach ni jun when it comes to intonation. ang alam ko kasi yung harmonics and the fretted note on 12th fret must be as close as possible. pero si jun kasi may ibang approach. I mean come on if you can build a whole guitar from scratch that means you'd better be knowledgeable about the correct placement of the frets on the fretboard or else it would never sound right no matter how much you intonate it. And if he can do that i think it's better for me to listen when he tells me if my intonation is off. :D I won't elaborate and pretend to know the details about it. I just trust the guy. May ibang guitar naman ako na ipinatingin ko sa kanya and he said my intonation was spot on! hehehe. And tama si meanmygun there's no harm in trying diba ?:D Peace!
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try mo pacheck kay oas baka ok na yan:)
nga pala ano nga pala apelyido ni jun?
madami kasi jun may kakilala ako jun na gunsmith, jun na priest, jun na nining ko....hehe
CASTRO...hehe
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Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation. I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.
lol! i would have been surprised if you didn't show up in this thread.
Anyway, Jun's method works for a legion of bassists and guitarists, myself included. If any of you believe the oasgomez has perfect pitch, then take his word for it. Otherwise, trust your own ears. Jun won't charge you for anything if you aren't satisfied with his work on intonation. Maririnig naman kasi sa demonstration e.
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Machine Head,
I brought a guitar intonated by electronic tuner 12th fret vs. 12th fret harmonic and double checked by ear. Jun just looked at the electric guitar and strummed it once unplugged and told me it there was an intonation problem. I just had to smirk because I was testing him for a type 2 error which he commited. He diagnosed a guitar without a problem as having a problem. My Floyd Rose Super Strat is on Buzz Feiten. I like it because the BF helps chords sound more together. However, some people prefer the traditional setup because of the different sound it can produce. For example, Santa Cruz Guitars USA does not want to install Buzz Feiten on their guitars because it changes the whole feel and sound while Suhr and Anderson Electrics have it as standard.
Guitar Addict,
Fret placement on the fingerboard is not the same as intonation. There are available fret placement rulers on the market for corresponding scale lengths for you to place frets on blank fingerboards.
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Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation. I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.
lol! i would have been surprised if you didn't show up in this thread.
Anyway, Jun's method works for a legion of bassists and guitarists, myself included. If any of you believe the oasgomez has perfect pitch, then take his word for it. Otherwise, trust your own ears. Jun won't charge you for anything if you aren't satisfied with his work on intonation. Maririnig naman kasi sa demonstration e.
sa dami nga ng nakapila dung guitara ewan ko kung magaabala pa sya iintonate ang walang prblema...pero malay nga naman natin:)
o baka naman sinusubukan din misan ni jun kung sinusubukan sya:)
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Machine Head,
I brought a guitar intonated by electronic tuner 12th fret vs. 12th fret harmonic and double checked by ear. Jun just looked at the electric guitar and strummed it once unplugged and told me it there was an intonation problem. I just had to smirk because I was testing him for a type 2 error which he commited. He diagnosed a guitar without a problem as having a problem. My Floyd Rose Super Strat is on Buzz Feiten. I like it because the BF helps chords sound more together. However, some people prefer the traditional setup because of the different sound it can produce. For example, Santa Cruz Guitars USA does not want to install Buzz Feiten on their guitars because it changes the whole feel and sound while Suhr and Anderson Electrics have it as standard.
Guitar Addict,
Fret placement on the fingerboard is not the same as intonation. There are available fret placement rulers on the market for corresponding scale lengths for you to place frets on blank fingerboards.
Ahh ok next time we'll all have our guitars intonated by you :D
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o baka naman sinusubukan din misan ni jun kung sinusubukan sya:)
impressive insight. :wink:
for the record, oasgomez never really gave Jun Castro a chance. fully trusting Arie's work, he assumed that his guitar had perfect intonation (it's no secret that the two luthiers have differing approaches to intonation). nung sinabi ni Jun na hindi naka-intonate yung gitara, oasgomez immediately concluded na nag-iimbento ng sira si Jun.
oasgomez never actually "tried" and heard the results of Jun's intonation work, since hindi naman niya pinagalaw yung gitara niya.
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...maybe jun can feel the VIBRATIONS! just like beethoven....
di lang sa guitara pati sa owner...maganda kaya vibrations ko?
shyet...
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pero siryus na try mo nalang txt o kausapin mga kakilalamong gumagawa:)
then dun ka sa feel mo pre.
pero kung kaya mo naman at satisfied kana sa into...edi...ibalik ang swirtiii :wink:
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o baka naman sinusubukan din misan ni jun kung sinusubukan sya:)
impressive insight. :wink:
for the record, oasgomez never really gave Jun Castro a chance. fully trusting Arie's work, he assumed that his guitar had perfect intonation (it's no secret that the two luthiers have differing approaches to intonation). nung sinabi ni Jun na hindi naka-intonate yung gitara, oasgomez immediately concluded na nag-iimbento ng sira si Jun.
oasgomez never actually "tried" and heard the results of Jun's intonation work, since hindi naman niya pinagalaw yung gitara niya.
Also if your guitar is buzz feiten( or whatever method) intonated it would probably look different and sound different when measured against a different and more traditional approach right? Why would you do that in the first place? That's probably why jun said what he said. And if i had my guitar intonated by that particular system i'd expect jun to say it isn't. not because he's pulling my leg but because he's not familiar with it. so to imply that jun doesn't know how to intonate given oa's reason is illogical.
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actually, Jun is familiar with the BFTS. ayaw lang niya i-apply sa mga gitara. luthiers need a license to refit a guitar with that, and he doesn't have one. ayaw naman niyang mag colorum. it wouldn't be fair to his customers.
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I brought my guitar to Mr. Jun Castro this morning to have my pickups replaced. Just by looking at my guitar he said that it had intonation problems (well of course it would have intonation problems, the strings were all rusty). He said that rusted strings should still be in intonation... this statement made me a tad worried (of course the rust would affect the "thickness" of the string, therefore affecting its "gauge"). But since my friend had high regard for him, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and told him to do everything that needs to be done to fix my guitar (aside from the pickup replacement he will be adjusting the trust rod since my guitar was a bit concaved, fret leveling for the slight string buzz in the high E string and intonation). Let's see how it goes :)
My questions is this: if a guitar is spot on in-tune in open, 12th fret pressed and the 12th fret harmonic, isn't the guitar supposedly intonated? I mean you can do all the measurements you want but IMHO "sounds good" is still better than "measured right". All the internets site I've researched in have defined a perfectly intonated guitar as having the same note in the open, 12th fret pressed and the harmonics at the 12th fret.
I've been intonating guitars since 1996 and to find out that my method is wrong was a complete shock to me. Meron ba talagang measurement ang pag-intonate? No, no I'm not putting Mr. Jun Castro's capabilities in any shadow of doubt, heck I left my guitar with him, but of course I also want to learn. I would like to think that keeping a guitar in perfect intonation should be something any serious guitarist should be able to do.
TIA guys! :)
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he does the 12 fret approach. but before that, he makes sure everything else that affects intonation is in place (fret spacing, neck, action, etc)
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ako din ganun lang ang alam kong style sa 12th fret harmonic as well as checking out the octaves especially after the 12 fret. and i've been doing intonation adjustments for a while also. As soon as i get my guitar from jun i'll let you know how it sounds.
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fret spacing, neck, action, etc) <--- I guess these are the stuff na medyo experienced ka na dapat (and this in turn is what you really pay for) :)
I'll also let you know what happens with mu guitar!
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that's pretty much everyone's first reaction. and i don't want to pretend that i know exactly what he does and why he does it. it's a given that some people won't take kindly to that.
i've had old guitar maintenance habits and beliefs obliterated by him time and again. the last one was using pencil lead as guitar nut lubricant. but that's another story.
All the internets site I've researched in have defined a perfectly intonated guitar as having the same note in the open, 12th fret pressed and the harmonics at the 12th fret.
Of course it is. But for Jun, it's a result of proper intonation, not the actual basis.
i find it strange. internet articles make it sound so easy, you'd think anybody with a screwdriver, allen key and a tuner can do it. yet luthiers in the US make significant amounts of money from intonation services alone. yan kuwento nung isang customer ni Jun from Hawaii who decided to take his guitar back and have it serviced here in the Philippines instead of paying a good amount of money over there.
I would like to think that keeping a guitar in perfect intonation should be something any serious guitarist should be able to do.
With the proper tools and know-how, they can. oasgomez keeps calling it Jun's magic ruler. but there's nothing magical about it, in all seriousness. just a solid know-how in fundamentals.
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kung di mo nagustuhan ang ginawa ni jun, right there and then sabihin mo agad. be upfront. he'll gladly fix it right in front of you.
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yep! it's all about good service! sorry machine head napahaba topic mo. :D
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... or give you your money back and revert the guitar to its previous setup (if possible).
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So let's all post our "post -jun castro" babies when we get them shall we? 8)
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Dude,
Your RJ PRS guitar with me is a gem and the 505 is my main FX (even as I already have the ME-30 hehehe).
Anyway, just to help you out a little, here's my method for fixing intonation. Use a chromatic tuner.
Let's do it for one string, the high E string, then duplicate the process for the others.
Tune the high E string with your tuner. Then fret at the 12th and see what your tuner indicates. If it's flat, loosen and adjust the bridge (in very small increments) towards the nut. Do this gently until the tuner indicates a perfect intonation. If it's sharp, do the reverse and move the bridge gently away from the nut.
Works for me. No guesswork.
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Of course it is. But for Jun, it's a result of proper intonation, not the actual basis.
very good point :)
excited na nga ako to get my guitar :) want to see how much different a "magic ruler" intonated guitar is from an "ear" intonated guitar.
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My questions is this: if a guitar is spot on in-tune in open, 12th fret pressed and the 12th fret harmonic, isn't the guitar supposedly intonated? I mean you can do all the measurements you want but IMHO "sounds good" is still better than "measured right". All the internets site I've researched in have defined a perfectly intonated guitar as having the same note in the open, 12th fret pressed and the harmonics at the 12th fret.
basing on physics, i presume that its more accurate to have intonation based on measurements rather that ear. medyo touchy kasi kung tenga ang pag-uusapan. lets say, i intonate my guitar then someone tries to check the intonation and according to his own ear, its not intonated.
if we based it on measurements, we're following a set of intonation rules here which is based on the scale of the guitar. i would also presume that this is agreed upon by many guitar experts. kung baga, we're following a set of standard common to all.
for me, jun's approach of intonation is not just tuning your 12th fret with 12th harmonic. aside from it, he considers the guitar's scale, the bridge and nut placement/location, and how the frets are placed correctly on the fretboard - that is, he looks over the entire guitar for proper intonation. that is, the 1st fret should be "this" inches from the nut, etc...
he even quoted me on my washburn xb120 that minority of the frets it has poor intonation some frets because the some of the fret wires were put at a wrong place, making a little deviation from the scale. to push it further, he proved it to me by demonstrating and i did really hear with my own ears what he's saying.
from that point of view, if a person is trying to prove something on words, then, he must show it by action. maybe this is the reason why i believe jun's work, he's honest enough to tell you what needs to be corrected and when you get your guitar back, you'll see the difference on what it was before. although he's not perfect, but hey he's willing to correct what he has repaired that you're not satisfied just like what sir al said
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Thanks guys for the info. I'll give Jun a try and see how my guitar goes.
So let's all post our "post -jun castro" babies when we get them shall we? Cool
Yea please do.
Thanks again!
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So let's all post our "post -jun castro" babies when we get them shall we? 8)
they're all HERE (http://www.roadtone.tk/)
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Thanks guys for the info. I'll give Jun a try and see how my guitar goes.
So let's all post our "post -jun castro" babies when we get them shall we? Cool
Yea please do.
Thanks again!
im a believer in his work :D
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jun approaches repairs like he's building the guitar from scratch, that's the way he described it.
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Al,
Regarding my guitar, it WAS Jun who said may problema/sira ang gitara ko. Hindi ako nagCONCLUDE. Also, he decided to plug it in after diagnosing and JUN SAID " Maganda ang tunog." You figure it out.
By the way, have you gone to Arie to have your guitar intonated by Arie? Sabi mo, ibang approach. So have you tried Arie's approach?
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I have had my guitars intonated by both Arie and Jun C. Not much diffrence. I can go either way.
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Al,
Regarding my guitar, it WAS Jun who said may problema/sira ang gitara ko. Hindi ako nagCONCLUDE. Also, he decided to plug it in after diagnosing and JUN SAID " Maganda ang tunog." You figure it out.
You took it in the wrong context. Again.
Let me be more direct: ang sabi ko nag conclude ka na nag-iimbento ng sira si Jun. Alam ko din na sinabi mo yan sa livebands. Mali ba?
By the way, have you gone to Arie to have your guitar intonated by Arie? Sabi mo, ibang approach. So have you tried Arie's approach?
Yeah, sabi ko magkaiba ang approach. I deduced that from your own accounts. Mali ba?
And no, I haven't tried going to Arie. I'm pretty happy with where I am now. But at least you won't see me in these forums telling people who's better, let alone bash Arie's workmanship for any reason. I let people decide that for themselves.
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goma basahin mo tong pinost mo...ilang taon ka na ba?
ako 7..hehe
Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation. I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.
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By the way, have you gone to Arie to have your guitar intonated by Arie? Sabi mo, ibang approach. So have you tried Arie's approach?
Pare koy :lol: you're being defensive. why would you think we're comparing the two?
And i think i was the one who said jun has a different approach. but i didn't mean different from arie's. :lol: In fact i almost brought my guitar to arie if he wasn't closed on sundays. i think it's childish to compare the two anyway. Ano? porque dun ka nagpapaayus eh mas magaling na? That's a very limited way of thinking. pareho naman silang na maayos gumawa and they both desevre their respective reputations. Pareho silang magaling! :D di tulad ng iba na nagmamagaling. :shock:
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hehehe. at the very least he should be the second to the last. i've never properly intonated a guitar in my life. hahahaha!
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hoy kayo magsitigil na kayo...pareho naman siguro magaling yan...nwoh?
:D
tama na mahirap ang pakiramdam ng marami kaaway!
so les study intonating oltugeder! shall we? :D hehe
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nauna siya e! hehehe.
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hehe...cheers! basta guitar laber sweet laber...
tama na nga kitang kita na typing talent ko dito:)
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hey guys.
Got my guitar Saturday afternoon and had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Al Librero and his awesome custom guitar.
So what do I think of Sir Jun's work? Walang stir mga pare, my guitar feels like new. The action is a bit lower and the strings just glide of the fret wires. Tone is as clear as water and intonation was spot on. I'm all praises for Jun's work, he is a real craftsman showing real pride and dedication to his work.
My advice to those who are a bit apprehensive about the quality of his work is this: just bring your guitar to him. As Al said, if you honestly don't like his work just tell him why and I'm sure he won't ask you to pay :)
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Im glad you liked how your guitar turned out? What's your guitar? How long did it take for Jun to fix it?
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hey guys.
Got my guitar Saturday afternoon and had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Al Librero and his awesome custom guitar.
So what do I think of Sir Jun's work? Walang stir mga pare, my guitar feels like new. The action is a bit lower and the strings just glide of the fret wires. Tone is as clear as water and intonation was spot on. I'm all praises for Jun's work, he is a real craftsman showing real pride and dedication to his work.
My advice to those who are a bit apprehensive about the quality of his work is this: just bring your guitar to him. As Al said, if you honestly don't like his work just tell him why and I'm sure he won't ask you to pay :)
congrats sir. welcome to the club. :D
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hehehe. i was asking Jun if someone named Kelvin brought a guitar to him. after a short while there he was to pick up his guitar. it's great meeting you, pare. good luck with those upgrades you're planning on.
nivleklive's guitar is a nice flame top Ibanez AR. i don't know how it sounded prior to the setup and pickup replacement, but now it's real thick and loud but retains a very good amount of clarity, even through a small amp. can't complain about the intonation, either. very very nice as a hard rock guitar. i'm not sure if that's what nivleklive was aiming for when he bought those pickups, though. :lol:
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i'm not sure if that's what nivleklive was aiming for when he bought those pickups, though. :lol:
curious lang. whats the PU?
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for the bridge (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/humbuckersdescr.shtml#JB153Model) and for the neck (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/humbuckersdescr.shtml#Jazz153Model).
SH4JB and the SH2 Jazz model.
I found the SH4JB a bit louder and crispier (a little more mids would've been perfect) than I expected but I'm sure it's perfect coupled with a super overdrive or metal zone. The SH4JB was perfect by itself, nice round and warm, talagang "jazz na jazz". And the way all the notes come together even when playing diminished and augmented chords was just heavenly.
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same pu's pre:)
>prestige rga121 ibanez:(jazz and JB SD pickups) 10's ang string
* Mahogany body and Maple top with Violin Flat finish.
* 24 jumbo frets.
* Rosewood fingerboard.
* Wizard Prestige neck and Gibraltar Plus Bridge.
:shock:
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for the bridge (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/humbuckersdescr.shtml#JB153Model) and for the neck (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/humbuckersdescr.shtml#Jazz153Model).
SH4JB and the SH2 Jazz model.
I found the SH4JB a bit louder and crispier (a little more mids would've been perfect) than I expected but I'm sure it's perfect coupled with a super overdrive or metal zone. The SH4JB was perfect by itself, nice round and warm, talagang "jazz na jazz". And the way all the notes come together even when playing diminished and augmented chords was just heavenly.
SD fav pala eh. thats also my bridge PU for my SZ. its really a good pickup. i paired it with '59n for a warmer neck sound, which a good compliment too for the JB4. how does the Jazz sound?
so how does it feel to play yer guitar with nice PUs and good intonation??? rapsah...
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I forgot to mention. Arie teaches you to intonate your guitar for free. So, if you need to intonate your guitar, just call him up...
Walang magic ruler... ear mo lang ang kailangan
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nivleklive..
naka nickel cover ba yung PU's mo ??
nag hahanap mo ng SD ng may cover .. badtrip walang makita
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nope. wala siyang nickel cover.
should've taken a photo of nivleklive's guitar. may dala akong digicam nun. i really like it. and it's too bad he never got to see Jun's magic ruler. hehehe.
seems like someone just realized how weak his arguments were.
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sa! debate! sa! sa! debate! lahat kasali! hehe joke lang. peace lang tayo dito guys. ako kay arie palang ako nakakapag-paayos ng gitara, simply because sha pa lang kilala ko, so far wala naman akong complaints sa gawa nya. ok naman din si arie eh, but i'd love to meet mr. jun castro too, para parang doktor, you can ask for a second opinion, hehe. anyway, can someone please send me his contact? thanks!
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09198700456 :D number nya. this was never about whose the better luthier anyway :D I'm sure both are good.
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I forgot to mention. Arie teaches you to intonate your guitar for free. So, if you need to intonate your guitar, just call him up...
Walang magic ruler... ear mo lang ang kailangan
If you've been to Fender's support websites, they actually tell you to intonate your guitar/bass using an accurate ruler. So if Mang Jun has a special tool (some sort of an intonation ruler), then it's just right that he keeps that to himself as that is his source of competitive advantage.
I have 2 of my guitars - a strat with a Wilkinson and an Epi strat-type with a Kahler Flyer - intonated by him and I'm happy with it. My friend had his RG550 and Epi Flying V done as well, and he too is happy.
Besides, as the other guy pointed out, the laws of physics will always be more accurate than your freakin' ears. :)
Rock on!
P.S. You can always read about how to intonate your guitar. Jemsite and Project guitar have very nice tutorials.
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sa! debate! sa! sa! debate! lahat kasali! hehe joke lang. peace lang tayo dito guys. ako kay arie palang ako nakakapag-paayos ng gitara, simply because sha pa lang kilala ko, so far wala naman akong complaints sa gawa nya. ok naman din si arie eh, but i'd love to meet mr. jun castro too, para parang doktor, you can ask for a second opinion, hehe. anyway, can someone please send me his contact? thanks!
i personally believe arie is a good luthier. otherwise, he won't have a high profile clientele.
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If you've been to Fender's support websites, they actually tell you to intonate your guitar/bass using an accurate ruler. So if Mang Jun has a special tool (some sort of an intonation ruler), then it's just right that he keeps that to himself as that is his source of **** advantage.
I have 2 of my guitars - a strat with a Wilkinson and an Epi strat-type with a Kahler Flyer - intonated by him and I'm happy with it. My friend had his RG550 and Epi Flying V done as well, and he too is happy.
Besides, as the other guy pointed out, the laws of physics will always be more accurate than your freakin' ears. :)
Rock on!
P.S. You can always read about how to intonate your guitar. Jemsite and Project guitar have very nice tutorials.
if i may add, after doing some research sometime ago, i learned that they've been doing this approach since time in memorial. remember that leo does not know how to play guitar. he's even tone deaf. hence the freaking ruler. i assume he carried the tradition upto his G&L days and blindly followed by his believers.
i don't use the ruler (cause i don't have one). but i see the logic behind it. couple that with other intonating techniques, you might end up with a perfectly intonated guitar.
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+1 on sir glassjaw...
i have respect both luthiers. we're free to choose based on our personal preferences.
i favored jun first because of my location, im just a ride away from jun and second his transparency and accomodating character. it just so happen that i'm comfortable and satisfied with his approach.
peace po tayo.
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yep and since you measure the distance/ spacing of the frets i guess you could apply the same logic for the distance of the saddle from the nut or from the frets right? :D
And i feel its pointless to argue about who's the better luthier. Sa tingin ko nga nagpapasalamat pa sila na hindi sila nagiisa- imagine all of our guitars line up to be serviced only by arie or jun? haba ng waiting period nun. kawawa naman tayo diba? :D
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And i feel its pointless to argue about who's the better luthier. Sa tingin ko nga nagpapasalamat pa sila na hindi sila nagiisa- imagine all of our guitars line up to be serviced only by arie or jun? haba ng waiting period nun. kawawa naman tayo diba? :D
agree to that! :D
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we've said it dozens of times, pero dun talaga dapat tayo kung saan tayo hiyang. there's no good reason to put one over the other like some people do. but i am glad to see here that everyone here who's had one or more of their guitars intonated by Jun Castro are all happy campers.
pagdating sa intonation, kanya kanyang diskarte na lang when you get to play with a keyboardist and he/she starts giving you that glare of annoyance.
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we've said it dozens of times, pero dun talaga dapat tayo kung saan tayo hiyang. there's no good reason to put one over the other like some people do. but i am glad to see here that everyone here who's had one or more of their guitars intonated by Jun Castro are all happy campers.
pagdating sa intonation, kanya kanyang diskarte na lang when you get to play with a keyboardist and he/she starts giving you that glare of annoyance.
hehehe :lol:
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I forgot to mention. Arie teaches you to intonate your guitar for free. So, if you need to intonate your guitar, just call him up...
Walang magic ruler... ear mo lang ang kailangan
Not really. Auditory hairs are made of soft tissue, as opposed to say, quartz tuners who have definitely a more predictable reponse to frequencies.
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we've said it dozens of times, pero dun talaga dapat tayo kung saan tayo hiyang. there's no good reason to put one over the other like some people do. but i am glad to see here that everyone here who's had one or more of their guitars intonated by Jun Castro are all happy campers.
pagdating sa intonation, kanya kanyang diskarte na lang when you get to play with a keyboardist and he/she starts giving you that glare of annoyance.
Ey-men.
Anyhow, I've tried both AH and JC. I'll update you guys on what Arie did to my guitar after a neck reset, refret ad bridge realignment and about a month of waiting.
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Lets not forget all the unhappy guys outside this thread who tried Jun and have gone to Arie for him to fix Jun's work.
My message is that Arie is on a level way above Jun period. If you want to save money, go ahead and try Jun but do not equate both because in terms of exposure and guitar repair skill Arie is tops. Check out their websites and check out Arie's clientele -- ask each one. Let us take a perfect example. Ask Wally Gonzales who he talks to in person about guitar setup. Ask Wally how often he has guitar serviced by Arie versus Jun. Ask Wally who does set up of his guitar if he has an emergency or rush gig.
But, I admit. Arie is filled to the brim with so much guitar repair so if you want something done fast you better go to Jun. But if you ever wonder why Arie is filled up, it because he is busy repairing/reworking kapalpakan ng mga ibang so called luthier sa Pilipinas and that does not just apply to Jun kasi hindi naman lahat ng gawa ni Jun ay panget o sablay kundi there wont be any satisfied people on this thread. There are others.
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actually, jun has a lot of clients who were unhappy with arie too. so does that make arie suck?
bottom line is they're both good, they just can't satisfy everyone.
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Glassjaw,
Given that you have maintained objectivity, and have tried both. It sounds like you have.
What is good and bad about Arie?
What is good and bad about Jun?
Guys who have tried both. Let us settle once and for all. Post your opinion freely. I wont criticize.
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I gotta hand it to you, Alex. You're really good at opening cans of worms. You're even better at circumventing points you can't address properly.
My message is that Arie is on a level way above Jun period. If you want to save money, go ahead and try Jun but do not equate both because in terms of exposure and guitar repair skill Arie is tops.
Ok, will the people who believe this guy raise their hands and say aye? :lol:
Actually, in terms of exposure and skill, none of us can really tell, because both of them are damn better than the rest of us. You think you are so well-versed in the luthiery scene. But let me let you in on a little secret: you're not. None of us here truly are.
But, I admit. Arie is filled to the brim with so much guitar repair so if you want something done fast you better go to Jun.
Actually, you can't go to Jun either when you want something done fast. Anyone who's been to his house in the past months would have seen how stuffed the place is with instruments.
So, what next? Padamihan ba ng gitarang ginagawa ba ang isusunod mong hirit? Oh wait, meron pala. Pasiklaban naman ng clientele. Sheesh. You want me to address this one? Nah... it's an issue I'd rather not touch. Sige, I know. That clientele list in guitarhospital.net is truly impressive. Good for the man that such people trust him or at the very least trusted him at one point.
But if you ever wonder why Arie is filled up, it because he is busy repairing/reworking kapalpakan ng mga ibang so called luthier sa Pilipinas
Ditto on Jun.
there wont be any satisfied people on this thread.
Finally, something we can both agree on. But hey. In this forum, one out of several for Jun is pretty good, don't you think? Hell you never even had a guitar repaired by Jun, so that one shouldn't even count.
actually, jun has a lot of clients who were unhappy with arie too. so does that make arie suck?
Did you read this one, Alex? It makes just about all your new points moot.
Why are you trying so hard to turn this into a pissing contest, anyway?
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Gentlemen, I started this thread not to compare luthiers but i was just asking if my guitar has some wierd problem of sorts. Im sorry it turned out this way. Now im sure both have satisfied and unsatisfied customers and im sure both are good. I have only tried one of 'em and i'll be trying the other one soon and see how it goes. Peace lang po mga gents. If you wanna continue arguing about this please do so in another thread.
Btw, to update on my guitar's wierd a$$ problem. It's improved already. Only the low E and A strings are still off. The 12th fret doesnt right for some reason. It always sounds a little sharp or a little flat. Cant get it to sound right... I'll be trying to other luthier soon and i'll update you guys.
Any of you guys encountered the same problem with their guitar?
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hahaha this thread reminds me of the eternal mac vs. pc debate :)
can't we just all get along? or at least agree to disagree :) If you think that one is better than the other then good for you bro! Pati dito ba kailangang may crab mentality pa din?
sigh...
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hahaha this thread reminds me of the eternal mac vs. pc debate :)
very true.
ISANG TANONG LANG MGA KAPATID:
kasi, may friends ako na nagpapasetup kay sir jun at sir arie.. both are good daw.. but i'm curious about THE JUN CASTRO SET UP.
hmmm.. pag sineset up ang gitara, ano gnagawa aside from intonation, action, pick up height adjustment? wiring din ba? refretting din ba? sorry wala ako gaanong alam.. gusto ko rin tlga itry mag pa setup ng gitara kay sir jun eh.. magkakano ba magpa set up usually? thanks thanks.
btw, COOL THREAD. heheheheh! :D
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Gentlemen, I started this thread not to compare luthiers but i was just asking if my guitar has some wierd problem of sorts. Im sorry it turned out this way.
My apologies. But certain lines do need to be drawn. Besides, isa lang naman dito yung nagpupumilit mag-compare e.
Anyway, I asked Jun kung dumaan sa kamay niya yung gitara mo. If that was the one Vince was selling, then yes. Kaso hindi na pinaayos sa kanya ni Vince yung intonation niyan. I'm not going to speculate why not.
Btw, to update on my guitar's wierd a$$ problem. It's improved already. Only the low E and A strings are still off. The 12th fret doesnt right for some reason. It always sounds a little sharp or a little flat. Cant get it to sound right... I'll be trying to other luthier soon and i'll update you guys.
Any of you guys encountered the same problem with their guitar?
Dati. I had this guitar which RJ screwed. Turns out that their replacement neck was way off the scale which the body was designed for. Hopefully, your Talman doesn't have the same problem.
hmmm.. pag sineset up ang gitara, ano gnagawa aside from intonation, action, pick up height adjustment?
yes. pag sinabing "setup" that's pretty much it. action, neck relief, intonation, and pick up height (as well as polepieces adjustment if applicable). ibang usapan na yung rewiring, refret etc.
magkakano ba magpa set up usually?
depends on how much needs to be done.
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thanks sir al! balitaan kita pag napa set up ko na kay sir jun :)
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sure thing! baka magkita pa tayo dun pag nagkataon.
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No worries Sir Al, arguments and discussions are always welcome. But arguing about who's better than who will get us no where. But i agree with you some lines must be drawn. Lets just all agree to disagree. :D
Anyway, I asked Jun kung dumaan sa kamay niya yung gitara mo. If that was the one Vince was selling, then yes. Kaso hindi na pinaayos sa kanya ni Vince yung intonation niyan. I'm not going to speculate why not.
Wow sir you sure did your research... Parang FBI. Scary... Hehe.. :D
Vince told me to go to him to have it fixed but its not convenient for me to go all the way there so i had it fixed by someone who lives nearer.
Till now i really cant figure out what's wrong with my poor guitar. The other Ibby in my possesion doesnt have this problem. Sayang tlga coz i love the way she sounds.
I guess my last resort will be to give the other luthier a shot. Hope it turns out well.
Peace out! :D
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Sir, when are you droppin by? It'll be cool if i can see you there. :)
sure thing! baka magkita pa tayo dun pag nagkataon.
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i was hoping to drop by there within the next few days, kaso mukhang di ako puwede. maybe next week.
Lets just all agree to disagree.
well, i have no problem with that for almost everyone here. :wink:
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Cge sir al, pm me when you're dropping by. I already decided to have the fixed there even if it will set me back a few more hunder bucks. I believe the guitar is worth it naman. :)
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Cge sir al, pm me when you're dropping by. I already decided to have the fixed there even if it will set me back a few more hunder bucks. I believe the guitar is worth it naman. :)
Staying in tune is worth every centavo...so go for it! :)
Rock on!
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Thanks fretburner. Will keep you guys posted.
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Ok. Since oasgomez brought this up, I'll tell you guys what I don't like about the two. However, let it be known that it is my opinion that both AH and JC have their core competencies and those competencies have reached a level that is reasonably good. Feel free to explain these things to me esp. Al and oasgomez because they seem to know how busy these guys are and how they have both been satisfied with the two luthiers' work.
What I don't like about Arie:
- Price. But then again, he invested in gear and that's the natrual law of supply and demand in a capitalistic society.
- A previous bad experience a few years back. I asked him to reglue the fingerboard to the neck but he didn't, and yet I paid for it. I sent him my guitar this time just to give him a chance. Maybe it slipped his mind when I sent the other guitar. I don't really know.
- Estimated completion time. When I sent him my guitar, he said that it'll just be a week. But I'm just getting my guitar next week, which is a month and a week after his projected date.
What I don't like about Jun.
- The fact that I have to go there and bring the guitar when I'm actually asking for the price of a specific service, i.e. neck reset. I know he does have to see the guitar, but I was asking it to make sure that I have the budget for it. A rough estimate would have done but I didn't get it.
- Estimated completion time. Same reasons.
- Going to the area. Sometimes, I'm scared stiff to go his area alone because of the environment.
Yun lang. Again, let me reiterate that I would not hesitate having any of my gear done by any of the luthiers. It's usually just a matter of convenience, budget and urgency that makes me decide which luthier to go to.
I suggest the guys here at the forum try both, even if you have to spend. You're not spending so much on just haveing your guitar set up, but you're really spending for the opinion that you will be forming when you've experienced how both luthiers work on your guitar.
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it's off topic, and is something i wouldn't let slip in the yupangco forum, but fine:
estimated completion time will never be a fixed affair, regardless of who's doing it. as cliche as it may sound, repairing a guitar is best treated as an artform by itself. would you be happy if someone gave you a deadline for writing a song?
i'm hesitant to address the rest, out of respect to the real topic and its starter.
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750php laban sa 3.5kphp with the same [gooey brown stuff] san kapa?
:badgrin:
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i'm hesitant to address the rest, out of respect to the real topic and its starter.
Thank you sir Al.
Goin back, someone suggested that the problem might be the neck.. Could this be the probable cause?
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i'm hesitant to address the rest, out of respect to the real topic and its starter.
Thank you sir Al.
Goin back, someone suggested that the problem might be the neck.. Could this be the probable cause?
YES
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it's really difficult to guess. it can be anything, from a twisted neck, bad frets, bad nut, misplaced bridge, bent tremposts and whatnot. it's a clear example of why a guitar has to be seen up close by a luthier. mahirap manghula. baka magkamali pa ng estimate.
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750php laban sa 3.5kphp with the same [gooey brown stuff] san kapa?
:badgrin:
What are you talkin about?? :?:
I played around with the saddles a bit (i know i shouldnt have but i cant help it, im guilty) and the problem is still there. So i guess its the neck. I'll hvae it looked at next week.
Hope to meet some of you guys there. :)
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750php laban sa 3.5kphp with the same [gooey brown stuff] san kapa?
:badgrin:
What are you talkin about?? :?:
I played around with the saddles a bit (i know i shouldnt have but i cant help it, im guilty) and the problem is still there. So i guess its the neck. I'll hvae it looked at next week.
Hope to meet some of you guys there. :)
messing with the saddles would screw up your intonation for sure... but below the 12th fret and you're out of tune with fresh strings, that would be your neck and fretboard which is screwed up... i think... :)
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messing with the saddles would screw up your intonation for sure... but below the 12th fret and you're out of tune with fresh strings, that would be your neck and fretboard which is screwed up... i think... :)
Yup but i figured it already screwed up to begin with so might as well do a little fixin myself. :D And besides, im gonna have it fixed naman next week. Uh oh, may gig pala kmi this saturday. Hehe.. Oh well.. :)
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ok lang yan pre. papaayos mo naman eh. see you sunday :D
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i've been reading what you guys were saying, and all i gotta say is, lahat kayo nagco-compare. e yung nagstart jan na "nautot kay *tooot*" and all, man, alam naman ng lahat kung sino sinasabi mo. dont be fag and go like that on people.
kung may weak and strong points both, then so be it. price should never be an issue, kasi sa totoo lang, WHAT'S EXPENSIVE? IT'S RELATIVE.
kasi ano ba gitara natin? if you get a 3,500peso fret job for a PRS,THAT'S NOT EXPENSIVE.
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lol! nice entrance, dude.
true, comparing per se is not the issue here. but putting over one at the cost of the other is, especially if there's some fanboyism involved in the mix.
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i've been reading what you guys were saying, and all i gotta say is, lahat kayo nagco-compare. e yung nagstart jan na "nautot kay *tooot*" and all, man, alam naman ng lahat kung sino sinasabi mo. dont be fag and go like that on people.
kung may weak and strong points both, then so be it. price should never be an issue, kasi sa totoo lang, WHAT'S EXPENSIVE? IT'S RELATIVE.
kasi ano ba gitara natin? if you get a 3,500peso fret job for a PRS,THAT'S NOT EXPENSIVE.
mukhang kasasali mo lang pre, we have a "richie rich oldie newbie wanabe poser here" (feb 08...a FAG:)
welcome to the club!
prs needs a fret job? pangit na klaseng prs yan...
serius kava? nalolongkhot ka va? kaw si arie no?
ahah
haha pikon...wahahahahaha
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What I don't like about Jun.
- The fact that I have to go there and bring the guitar when I'm actually asking for the price of a specific service, i.e. neck reset. I know he does have to see the guitar, but I was asking it to make sure that I have the budget for it. A rough estimate would have done but I didn't get it.
i understand jun in this case. i do understand that a rough estimate would give us a chance to prepare some bucks for the repair. however, for everyone's reasoning i guess and looking at jun's point of view as a luthier, its difficult to assume a cost of repair for a repairman without visually seeing it first. taking for instance an example - initially, you might ask for a neck reset but upon visual inspection, he might found that the fretboard is warped and needs fret-leveling to compensate for it - that is of course a different job order that you're requesting.
find jun "sigurista" on such cases before giving information regarding the price of repair.
the only drawback here is time, but if proper time management is there, then why not?
peace po sir titser_marco :D just my two cents :idea:
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kung may nasaktan man o napikon sa inyo sa mga posts ko...sorry po.
magulo lang talaga ak.
machine head... pasensya na.
sana maayos na guitar mo pre:)
'all the luck!
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kung may nasaktan man o napikon sa inyo sa mga posts ko...sorry po.
magulo lang talaga ak.
machine head... pasensya na.
sana maayos na guitar mo pre:)
'all the luck!
pagpasensyahan nyo na to makulit hehehehe :lol:
para matawa naman tayo dito
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kung may nasaktan man o napikon sa inyo sa mga posts ko...sorry po.
magulo lang talaga ak.
machine head... pasensya na.
sana maayos na guitar mo pre:)
'all the luck!
No prob bro, no offense taken. :)
Thanks!
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No need for peace pare. Wala namang away e. :)
Yeah, I also get his point but there are times when your guitar just gets screwed up real soon, like what happened to me. :/
i understand jun in this case. i do understand that a rough estimate would give us a chance to prepare some bucks for the repair. however, for everyone's reasoning i guess and looking at jun's point of view as a luthier, its difficult to assume a cost of repair for a repairman without visually seeing it first. taking for instance an example - initially, you might ask for a neck reset but upon visual inspection, he might found that the fretboard is warped and needs fret-leveling to compensate for it - that is of course a different job order that you're requesting.
find jun "sigurista" on such cases before giving information regarding the price of repair.
the only drawback here is time, but if proper time management is there, then why not?
peace po sir titser_marco :D just my two cents :idea:
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Hehehe. Sarap basahin ng mga argumento. Dagdag ko lang kahit huli na, pwede rin sa strings problema nyan.
Dati bumili ako ng isang set ng Adamas nylon strings para sa classical guitar namin. Pagkatapos kong ikabit at i-stretch, napansin ko ang hirap itono ng D string. Ok sa lower frets pero pagdating sa 5th ang sama na. Nabaliw ako dahil yung ibang strings ok naman. Buti na lang prematurely naputol tapos nung pinalitan ko ng Maya, ok na, natotono na nang matino.
Mula non, hindi na ako bumili ng Adamas ulit.
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Hehehe. Sarap basahin ng mga argumento. Dagdag ko lang kahit huli na, pwede rin sa strings problema nyan.
Dati bumili ako ng isang set ng Adamas nylon strings para sa classical guitar namin. Pagkatapos kong ikabit at i-stretch, napansin ko ang hirap itono ng D string. Ok sa lower frets pero pagdating sa 5th ang sama na. Nabaliw ako dahil yung ibang strings ok naman. Buti na lang prematurely naputol tapos nung pinalitan ko ng Maya, ok na, natotono na nang matino.
Mula non, hindi na ako bumili ng Adamas ulit.
Hmm interesting... Im gonna have the strings changed to a heavier guage. And im hoping its just the strings... But i dont see why..
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you'll definitely need to have your guitar set up if you change string gauge.
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Yes. Im gonna have it fixed anyway.
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MEANDMYGUN: actually, you know what, ako si JUN. nyahahahaha
i guess pare pareho lang tayong pikon.
peace joes.
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uy ha. i've already made the mistake of letting myself get pissed off by oasgomez back in livebands a long time ago. di na mauulit yun. :lol:
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ganun? seems like everyone has something against this guy. what did he do ba?
haaay i'm just butting in here, dudes. and i just said what i had i mind based on what i've read.
anyway i'm outta here. peace joes.
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Just to update you guys. I got my guitar back today, and its all good. Its now possible to do chords on higher fret. :D I love it!
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Just to update you guys. I got my guitar back today, and its all good. Its now possible to do chords on higher fret. :D I love it!
can we say you're one satisfied customer? :)
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Definitely!!! :D Very satisfied!
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Definitely!!! :D Very satisfied!
kickass!
now where is goma when we need him? ehehehe... kidding :)
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Hehe.. Lets leave it at that nlang para peace and goodwill to all mankind. :) Im just so darn elated right now! Cant stop playing kahit unplugged. It just sounds so darn right. I asked the strings to be changed to guage 10, works great! But sooner or later, im gonna have it changed to 11. I want a really fat SRV-like tone. :D
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Hehe.. Lets leave it at that nlang para peace and goodwill to all mankind. :) Im just so darn elated right now! Cant stop playing kahit unplugged. It just sounds so darn right. I asked the strings to be changed to guage 10, works great! But sooner or later, im gonna have it changed to 11. I want a really fat SRV-like tone. :D
i think i'm sticking with 9s... all my guitars are on 9s... besides, they say the tonal differences they say are barely noticeable plugged in... and no need to re-set up your guitar changing from 9s to 10s...
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Im already using 10s. :) I dunno, i think i can hear the difference. The high E string sounds a bit bigger.
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Im already using 10s. :) I dunno, i think i can hear the difference. The high E string sounds a bit bigger.
yeah, but on high gain, is it that big a difference?
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Im already using 10s. :) I dunno, i think i can hear the difference. The high E string sounds a bit bigger.
yeah, but on high gain, is it that big a difference?
IMHO, it is sometimes noticeable and it can be summarized in this triplet: dink-dink- and then DOINK when you hit something on the high E.
And for slide players, heavier gauges are better, at least in my experience. :)
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750php laban sa 3.5kphp with the same [gooey brown stuff] san kapa?
:badgrin:
for a set up? ouch! think think...
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nauna siya e! hehehe.
eto pinaka profound na comment ni sir al...walanjo natawa ako dito haha
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i've been reading what you guys were saying, and all i gotta say is, lahat kayo nagco-compare. e yung nagstart jan na "nautot kay *tooot*" and all, man, alam naman ng lahat kung sino sinasabi mo. dont be fag and go like that on people.
kung may weak and strong points both, then so be it. price should never be an issue, kasi sa totoo lang, WHAT'S EXPENSIVE? IT'S RELATIVE.
kasi ano ba gitara natin? if you get a 3,500peso fret job for a PRS,THAT'S NOT EXPENSIVE.
whoa!!! straight to the point sir! hehe
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Im already using 10s. :) I dunno, i think i can hear the difference. The high E string sounds a bit bigger.
yeah, but on high gain, is it that big a difference?
I never use the high gain settings onmfx. I guess there isnt much of a difference when you're playing with a ton of gain, but there's a difference when you play clean or mildly overdriven.
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i think meron pa rin regardless of gain. the difference in tension makes your hand react differently with the strings. and apply the same picking strength to 9's as you would with 10's would definitely make the strings give off a slightly different sound.
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My next project would be fret leveling and changing the nut. I have some dead spots on higher frets. And im raising the action a bit.
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i think meron pa rin regardless of gain. the difference in tension makes your hand react differently with the strings. and apply the same picking strength to 9's as you would with 10's would definitely make the strings give off a slightly different sound.
playability vs tone "improvement"...
i've been contemplating on going 10s in this one guitar... i haven't played on 10s for maybe 8 years now... im tempted to go 10s for a fuller sound, but im sure playability will suffer a bit, and i might screw up on bending the strings on my other guitars (all 9s)... and of course, there's a risk of having to have my guitar set up again if i decide to move back to 9s... decisions... decisions...
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The Talman has a shorter scale so putting 10s on it wont affect playability so much. But i wouldnt put 10s on the guitar i have which is full scale. I find 9s on a shorter scale a bit lacking.
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lupit nga si jun kesa sa isang alam kong si A..(secret)
nagparepair ak acoustic (fender dg-4) P950 lang kay jun samantalang kay tooooot e P3,500 daw :shock: :shock: :shock: napautot nga ako kay toooot e :?
kilala ko yan nag punta din ako dyan para i-repair tremolo ko....2,000 daw :x
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ky kuya epi lang ako nagpapasetup ng gitara eh sa sm dasma cavite ok naman magaling hehehe nakukuha nya gsto ko mabait pa... mura lang, labor lang kasi.. sya ung guitar tech ni rj jacinto..