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The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: Bellissima on April 16, 2009, 10:02:58 AM
Title: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: Bellissima on April 16, 2009, 10:02:58 AM
Hi, meron na po ba sa inyong nakasubok na ng mga power amps na'to? Kindly give your feedback kasi balak kong bumili ng 1 sa mga 'to. Pero di ko alam kung alin ang mas ok ang performance. May mga nabasa ako na forum na mas ok daw ang Crell, yung iba nmn sabi mas ok daw yung Soundstandard. Sana po may mga music gurus na mag-share ng feedback nila sa topic na'to kasi it will really help me to decide.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: skyjammer on April 16, 2009, 06:43:11 PM
Hi, meron na po ba sa inyong nakasubok na ng mga power amps na'to? Kindly give your feedback kasi balak kong bumili ng 1 sa mga 'to. Pero di ko alam kung alin ang mas ok ang performance. May mga nabasa ako na forum na mas ok daw ang Crell, yung iba nmn sabi mas ok daw yung Soundstandard. Sana po may mga music gurus na mag-share ng feedback nila sa topic na'to kasi it will really help me to decide.
As far as I know they're the sam -- literally. Soundstandard CA-20 becomes Crell CA-20 in the philippines. Soundstandard is cheaper if purchased in China (and you can't find Crell there).
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: DJdave on January 14, 2011, 02:04:41 PM
@skyjammer
wala ka makikitang crell sa china bec. sariling tatak lng yun parang kevler. Crell is just an imitation of soundstandard. soundstandard ang may pinakamalaking factory sa china. yun ibang company dun kumokopya sa soundstandard then nilalagay nila sariling brand parang Cdr-king.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: barracks01 on January 14, 2011, 02:39:31 PM
As far as I know they're the sam -- literally. Soundstandard CA-20 becomes Crell CA-20 in the philippines. Soundstandard is cheaper if purchased in China (and you can't find Crell there).
tama..dito lang yan sa pinas ang crell. malamang dito na rin yan tinatakan.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on January 14, 2011, 05:42:13 PM
sir baka pina oem ng crell sa soundstandard ng mga businessman dito then tinatakan na,, meron nga sa UK DarQ ata ang tatak ng CA series
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: barracks01 on January 14, 2011, 05:49:27 PM
sir baka pina oem ng crell sa soundstandard ng mga businessman dito then tinatakan na,, meron nga sa UK DarQ ata ang tatak ng CA series
No, di gawa/OEM ng soundstandard ang crell. malayo performance nila. crell kasi nag dc out. karamihan ng small factory sa china ginagaya ang soundstandard then yun mga business men dito sa pinas/UK naglalagay ng sariling brand. ni di mo makikita sa exibit sa ibang bansa ang crell,
eto official website ng soundstandard. http://www.saeaudio.com/products_detail.aspx?id=9&zhu=4 sila ang original na CA series.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on January 14, 2011, 09:53:48 PM
kevler website http://www.kevlerpro.com/index.php
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mants on January 14, 2011, 11:40:12 PM
crell is distributed by Kolin electronics,, http://www.kolin.ph/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=50&Itemid=97
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: TheHunter on January 15, 2011, 01:35:42 AM
I don't recommend Crell amp...maybe if you use for mid :|
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: DJdave on January 15, 2011, 09:30:22 AM
good to hear na may ginawa narin pala silang website. but still crell & other brand of CA series is just an imitation of sounstandard. malalaman nyo yan pag galing kayo ng china. ni di nga kilala ang crell sa china.
@TheHunter tama ka, dami kong nakilala na mobile na binenta yun crell nila.isa lng sagot nila kung bakit nila benta yun amp. ""DC out""
@Bellissima soundstandard ang the best choice.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 15, 2011, 09:58:24 AM
Mga sir hindi pareho ang factory ng crell at sound standard magkaiba sila oem ang crell ibang brand sa china Ang sound standard yun na ang ginamit na brand nang importer , hindi pareho ang design ng dalawang amp Mas stable ang sound standard pero hindi ganon ka lakas pero safe ang speaker mo, ang crell mas malakas pero malakas din masunog ang speaker niyo, pili na kayo sa gusto niyo :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: spacejam on January 15, 2011, 11:41:18 AM
sir barracks halos lahat ng parte ng Mundo china products na.... Mura labor and walang union kc communist country kay a walang strike....magaling kumopya ang mga factory ng china, bill Lang branded copy na nila... Sa quality na Lang ng components nagkakaiba and konti change Lang sa branded due to patent reasons.... Peo halos 90% copy nilA.... Punts k Lang sa roan :-D damming kamukha ng rcf jbl plastic speaker doon :-D.... Ang china maraming oem factory na pang European and US standard.... D Lang pinaparating ng importers kc mahal.... Kung konti Lang difference kasi sa branded ang price.... Syempre sa branded tayong lahat :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: spacejam on January 16, 2011, 07:17:30 AM
good to hear na may ginawa narin pala silang website. but still crell & other brand of CA series is just an imitation of sounstandard. malalaman nyo yan pag galing kayo ng china. ni di nga kilala ang crell sa china. sariling brand lng yun ng kolin gaya ng ibang appliances nila.
@TheHunter tama ka, dami kong nakilala na mobile na binenta yun crell nila.isa lng sagot nila kung bakit nila benta yun amp. ""DC out""
@Bellissima soundstandard ang the best choice.
sir magkaibang company ang kolin na appliances sa kolin na speaker And amplifier Ito naman po ang website ng appliance http://www.kolinphil.com.ph/company/kolin_taiwan
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: triciaaruba on January 16, 2011, 02:24:55 PM
iba po
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: CodeOne on January 16, 2011, 11:22:23 PM
Well as far as i know ang orig na ''CA" amps ay gawa po ng ''Crest Audio''... Imitated but not equaled.. IMHO... :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: spacejam on January 17, 2011, 09:13:32 AM
Yes may mosfet transistor daw ang CA series ng crest audio
yung mosfets, six pcs per positive and negative high rail voltages, are used sa voltage step switching circuit nya kasi class H yung crest audio CA, 7 pairs ang output power transistors nya,
amplifier internal can be seen here.. http://forum.speakerplans.com/the-amplifier-internals-thread_topic23787.html
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: pedge22 on January 20, 2011, 05:59:58 PM
Sino po ba ang dealer ng Soundstandard dito sa pinas at magkano kaya ang CA20 nila?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: willy caloocan on January 22, 2011, 07:29:55 AM
mga sir,ito lng po ang masasabi ko about sa crell,lalo na yng CA 25,malakas ang ang mga crell,nasubukan kong gumamit ng CA 25,1,100 something ang watts nyan at 8 ohms,cguro kailanagn lng gamitin ng tamaang load,kung hanggat maari 4 ohms lng,kc d nman ganon ka stable sa 2 ohms load ang mga gawang china dba,like ng mga branded na power amp,and cguro yng tamang design na rin ng enclosure mo at transducer,yng fit din sa amp....
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: king_james on January 22, 2011, 06:50:50 PM
mga sir,ito lng po ang masasabi ko about sa crell,lalo na yng CA 25,malakas ang ang mga crell,nasubukan kong gumamit ng CA 25,1,100 something ang watts nyan at 8 ohms,cguro kailanagn lng gamitin ng tamaang load,kung hanggat maari 4 ohms lng,kc d nman ganon ka stable sa 2 ohms load ang mga gawang china dba,like ng mga branded na power amp,and cguro yng tamang design na rin ng enclosure mo at transducer,yng fit din sa amp....
I think only a few branded power amplifiers can really handle low impedance loading - Crown, QSC, Lab Gruppen, Crest Audio etc. are proven to be stable under these circumstances. Let's remember that modern 18" drivers are designed below 8 ohms - usually around the 5 ohms area. When you do the usual parallel patching, your 18" drivers are actually working around the 2.5 ohms range. This is the breaking point on most common China amps whether it's a Crell or Soundstandard. :-) :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 25, 2011, 12:36:58 AM
Demo ng live sa battle amp 8pcs naka load sa battle amp test nila kung kaya 2 ohms load 1 hour nila testing walang nasira
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: luffy on January 25, 2011, 06:10:04 AM
Demo ng live sa battle amp 8pcs naka load sa battle amp test nila kung kaya 2 ohms load 1 hour nila testing walang nasira
2 ohms, but what is the power rating of the subs being used in RMS, or what brand of speaker? anong type ng box ang ginamit, ang horn length, or is it orig design or not? sensiya na, one amp will sound differently in different box enclosures - specifically responding to the compression ratio between speaker and the box's throat. i am also interested in the different types of amps pouring into the Phil coming from China. a good amp's secret is 2 ohms stable and of course, good service and support. this is just me.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 25, 2011, 09:18:23 AM
2 ohms, but what is the power rating of the subs being used in RMS, or what brand of speaker? anong type ng box ang ginamit, ang horn length, or is it orig design or not? sensiya na, one amp will sound differently in different box enclosures - specifically responding to the compression ratio between speaker and the box's throat. i am also interested in the different types of amps pouring into the Phil coming from China. a good amp's secret is 2 ohms stable and of course, good service and support. this is just me.
They use live sub 18.5 8 pcs 5 inch in out 4 layer vc 6.5 ohms , they are try to destroy the amp but the amp works fine didnt break down if you want the spec i can give it to you, battle amp was design by a french guy who gave it to a china factory to assembly it design was different from others
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 25, 2011, 09:38:22 AM
Pangalan ba ng store yun "Master Fix"? Orig ba na soundstandard benta nila? Alam mo naman sir sa Raon di mo na malaman kung alin ang orig at imitation. :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 28, 2011, 05:26:40 PM
Orig yan alam ko kung sino ang suppyier nila sa china galing yan
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: pedge22 on January 28, 2011, 11:12:16 PM
Orig yan alam ko kung sino ang suppyier nila sa china galing yan
Sir alam mo ba tel. # nila? Salamat po. :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on January 29, 2011, 12:42:37 PM
check this out http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=531352&id=100000650410105#!/photo.php?pid=532657&id=100000650410105&fbid=184513498246996 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=184539281577751&set=a.184263874938625.40925.100000650410105
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 29, 2011, 01:01:38 PM
Sir balita ko dami daw nasunog na speaker sa iloilo paki ask kung anong brand nang amp ang ginamit nila ?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 29, 2011, 06:30:43 PM
Sir pedge eto na request niyo master fix 7346829 545 sales st. Quiapo mla
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on January 29, 2011, 10:55:38 PM
mga sir ito ang smoking speaker
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: Max_C on February 01, 2011, 09:09:29 AM
2 ohms, but what is the power rating of the subs being used in RMS, or what brand of speaker? anong type ng box ang ginamit, ang horn length, or is it orig design or not? sensiya na, one amp will sound differently in different box enclosures - specifically responding to the compression ratio between speaker and the box's throat. i am also interested in the different types of amps pouring into the Phil coming from China. a good amp's secret is 2 ohms stable and of course, good service and support. this is just me.
TAMA KA BRAD.
ANG PAGKAALAM KO, 2 OHMS LOAD = HIGH CURRENT DRAW FROM THE AMP = HIGHER HEAT TRANSFER & DISTORTION = HIGHER CHANCES OF SPEAKER FAILURE. TAMA?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 01, 2011, 10:48:21 AM
Yes kaya pag hindi kaya ng amp mag 2 ohms wasak ang amp sunog mga speaker
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: tjlimjoco on February 02, 2011, 01:55:05 AM
An0ng amP ba ang kakayanin mag 2 0hms na hinDi wawasakin anG speaker b0z?
crown high end amp like this------------>http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/mai.htm
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 02:07:40 PM
Maraming amp kaya ang 2 ohms qsc, crown, karamihan pag pricing more than 100k pataas pag branded ang hanap niyo
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 02, 2011, 04:55:33 PM
qsc rmx1850HD rmx4050HD kayang kaya ang 2 ohms load na pangmatagalan, HD (heavy duty) version for 2 ohms stereo loads at 4 ohms bridged load,
"Like its smaller sibling (the RMX 1850HD), the RMX 4050HD is one of two RMX "Heavy Duty" models designed to work as hard into 2 ohm loads as most competing amplifiers will at 4 ohms." qsc website
definitely less than 100k.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: pedge22 on February 02, 2011, 05:34:15 PM
Sir pedge eto na request niyo master fix 7346829 545 sales st. Quiapo mla
Thanks po Mr. Ultimate :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 06:05:58 PM
qsc rmx1850HD rmx4050HD kayang kaya ang 2 ohms load na pangmatagalan, HD (heavy duty) version for 2 ohms stereo loads at 4 ohms bridged load,
"Like its smaller sibling (the RMX 1850HD), the RMX 4050HD is one of two RMX "Heavy Duty" models designed to work as hard into 2 ohm loads as most competing amplifiers will at 4 ohms." qsc website
definitely less than 100k. Am sure kapag 4 ohms lang ang load siguradong no problem subukan mong load 2 ohms very time you use sa palagay ko hindi tatagal in 1 year yong unit may masisira na parts , yung makaka load ng 2ohms na amp ay depende sa power supply ng amp kung gano kalaki ang amperahe ang ginamit,dyan mo malalaman kung totoong 2 ohms stable ang isang amp kung sasabihin ang isang amp ay 2 ohms stable at ang power supply ay maliit at mababa ang mga value ng caps hindi totoong 2 ohms stable yan at kung masiyadongn mataas ang baising hindi matibay ang pagkagawa. Madaling masunog ang speaker pati ang amp hindi stable ang curciut
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 02, 2011, 07:17:30 PM
hehe, live lang talaga ang "2-ohms" stable.. :-D tested na nila sa davao for 1HOUR, walang nasira. :-D
but seriously, yung RMX1850HD is two stable. kahit lagi mong gamitin (proper use) sa two ohms, di ka isasabit nyan.
yung size ng power supply has more to do with the theoretical doubling of power with every halving of load impedance. and qsc is fully aware of this kaya mapapansin na ang power per channel sa 4 ohms ay mas mababa sa 2x ng power per channel sa 8ohms. unless the transformer is severely undersized, then there is no worries running on two ohms load.
and biasing is more on the minimum idle current to minimize crossover distortion. yung longevity of parts (amp section, not psu) sa 2-ohms ay sa SOA ng transistors tinitignan. check the power dissipated per transistor on 2-ohms load and plot it against the SOA curve ng output trannies. dun mo makikita kung masisira yung output trannies o hindi. as for the RMX1850HD, pasok na pasok ang power dissipation sa SOA.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 07:36:49 PM
Hehehe paheras lang sa sinabi ko pinahaba mo lang :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 07:42:33 PM
Sir lighttach how do you know if tama ang rate ng wattage ng isang amp ? Can you explain ?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 02, 2011, 07:44:54 PM
Hehehe paheras lang sa sinabi ko pinahaba mo lang :-D
nope hindi po parehas. I am not doubting RMX series, pero sa post mo doubtful ka. at sa post ko, hindi ko binased sa biasing ang tibay ng isang amp.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 07:48:40 PM
Sory pero mali ang paniniwala mo kung mali ang biasing nang isang amp hindi ito matibay ! Kapag sobra ang biasing madaling bumigay ang mga parts at kung d maganda ang protection curciuts puwede masunod ang spk
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 02, 2011, 07:56:38 PM
Sir lighttach how do you know if tama ang rate ng wattage ng isang amp ? Can you explain ?
measure it!
load the amp with dummy load (8r/4r/2r whichever load you want to test at) then inject a sine wave at the frequency of interest to the amp. increase output level until clipping occurs (monitor via the use of an oscilloscope). then compute the power from the Vpk measured on the oscilloscope. this measures the power on the onset of clipping.
to test the power at certain THD level, do the above test set-up while monitoring the output with a THD meter. then stop increasing the output level when the THD limit is reached. with the oscilloscope, measure Vpk then from Vpk compute the power.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 02, 2011, 08:02:52 PM
since lumabas ang rmx 1850HD gamit na namin sir. we opted for this HD model kaysa sa more powerful rmx 2450 for durability, looking on both model's schematics, they both have the same quantity of output power transistors but they operate at different supply voltages, which makes the hd model heavy duty on 2 ohm loads. and i won't question qsc's reputation on amplifier building and specifications..
@ sir lighttech very well said sir, and adding that the qsc rmx1850HD uses class H topology even on a low output power of 360, 600 and 900 watts at 8, 4 and 2 ohms load respectively, less stress are on the output power trannies.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 08:21:40 PM
Mga sir dont get me wrong hindi ko sinasabing bumili kayo ng live products , i just want to tell na hindi lahat ng china products are bad alam ko marani sa inyo have a bad experience with china products pero sana wag niyo lahatin , aminin na natin hindi lahat tayo kayang bumili nang mahal na gamit hindi rin lahat ng branded ay matitibay lahat naman may weak point. Kaya ko explain ang isang good amp kahit hindi live bilhin niyo wag lang kayong magkanali ulit sa pag pili ng isang mahusay na amp na ayon sa gamit niyo.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 08:26:48 PM
Ang complicated naman hindi ba puwede by just look how many power transsistor and the power supply to compute it? Kasi kapag bibili kana nang amp hindi mo naman puwede dalhin ang oscillioscope? Yung simple lang ?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 02, 2011, 08:32:56 PM
Sory pero mali ang paniniwala mo kung mali ang biasing nang isang amp hindi ito matibay ! Kapag sobra ang biasing madaling bumigay ang mga parts at kung d maganda ang protection curciuts puwede masunod ang spk
aba e kung mali di talaga uubra. mali nga e.. :-D pero ang biasing is on the IDLE current (i am talking about output section biasing here). biasing is typically set to a minimum value that ensures that cross-over distortion is mitigated. and again since yung biasing e sinagot mo sa post regarding qsc amps, qsc biasing is ok. halos di nga umiinit ang heatsink pag naka-idle ang qsc amp. one telltale sign that biasing is WAY TOO HIGH is that the output tranisistor heatsinks goes warm to hot at IDLE.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 02, 2011, 08:39:14 PM
Sir wala akong sinabi na mahina ang qsc recoment ko pa yan basahin mo maige ang post ko recoment ko nga sa 2 ohm stable ang qsc , qsc isa sa mga matitibay na amp pati ang crown macro tech
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 02, 2011, 08:42:21 PM
Ang complicated naman hindi ba puwede by just look how many power transsistor and the power supply to compute it? Kasi kapag bibili kana nang amp hindi mo naman puwede dalhin ang oscillioscope? Yung simple lang ?
nope, that wont do. kung bibili ka ba ng amp, pwede bang buksan mo at bibilangin ang power trannies? :-D tapos paano kung sangkatutak nga ang power trannies, tapos napakalaki ng mga capacitors at power traffo pero di naman pala kayang itulak ng driver/VAS section yung output section? IMHO, you will really have to measure to verify if the specs are true.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 02, 2011, 09:09:34 PM
Sir wala akong sinabi na mahina ang qsc recoment ko pa yan basahin mo maige ang post ko recoment ko nga sa 2 ohm stable ang qsc , qsc isa sa mga matitibay na amp pati ang crown macro tech
sorry i must have mis-interpreted your response which i am quoting in this reply.
qsc rmx1850HD rmx4050HD kayang kaya ang 2 ohms load na pangmatagalan, HD (heavy duty) version for 2 ohms stereo loads at 4 ohms bridged load,
"Like its smaller sibling (the RMX 1850HD), the RMX 4050HD is one of two RMX "Heavy Duty" models designed to work as hard into 2 ohm loads as most competing amplifiers will at 4 ohms." qsc website
definitely less than 100k.
Am sure kapag 4 ohms lang ang load siguradong no problem subukan mong load 2 ohms very time you use sa palagay ko hindi tatagal in 1 year yong unit may masisira na parts , yung makaka load ng 2ohms na amp ay depende sa power supply ng amp kung gano kalaki ang amperahe ang ginamit,dyan mo malalaman kung totoong 2 ohms stable ang isang amp kung sasabihin ang isang amp ay 2 ohms stable at ang power supply ay maliit at mababa ang mga value ng caps hindi totoong 2 ohms stable yan at kung masiyadongn mataas ang baising hindi matibay ang pagkagawa. Madaling masunog ang speaker pati ang amp hindi stable ang curciut
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 02, 2011, 09:13:52 PM
Ang complicated naman hindi ba puwede by just look how many power transsistor and the power supply to compute it? Kasi kapag bibili kana nang amp hindi mo naman puwede dalhin ang oscillioscope? Yung simple lang ?
buy an amp with a reputable specification sir,, so far di pa ako bumili ng amp na binubuksan ko sa dealer, count the trannies, check the supply voltages,
the method lighttech said is used by amplifier manufacturers and their service centers to ensure quality. some geeks in another forum are also using this method, also with an oscilloscope and a signal gen, u can perfectly set the bias of an amp by looking at its waveform on its crossover, kung may glitch or gap, kailangan smooth ang transition ng positive at negative signals.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 02, 2011, 09:29:14 PM
qsc rmx1850HD rmx4050HD kayang kaya ang 2 ohms load na pangmatagalan, HD (heavy duty) version for 2 ohms stereo loads at 4 ohms bridged load,
"Like its smaller sibling (the RMX 1850HD), the RMX 4050HD is one of two RMX "Heavy Duty" models designed to work as hard into 2 ohm loads as most competing amplifiers will at 4 ohms." qsc website
definitely less than 100k. Am sure kapag 4 ohms lang ang load siguradong no problem subukan mong load 2 ohms very time you use sa palagay ko hindi tatagal in 1 year yong unit may masisira na parts , yung makaka load ng 2ohms na amp ay depende sa power supply ng amp kung gano kalaki ang amperahe ang ginamit,dyan mo malalaman kung totoong 2 ohms stable ang isang amp kung sasabihin ang isang amp ay 2 ohms stable at ang power supply ay maliit at mababa ang mga value ng caps hindi totoong 2 ohms stable yan at kung masiyadongn mataas ang baising hindi matibay ang pagkagawa. Madaling masunog ang speaker pati ang amp hindi stable ang curciut
is that quote on my qsc rmx 1850 hd?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: barracks01 on February 02, 2011, 10:54:49 PM
may tanong ako..bakit gustong gusto nyo mag load ng 2ohms?
ako honestly 4 ohms lang ako or 8 ohms, i wont stress my amplifier, nag hahahap lang kayo ng gastos pag nasira ang amp nyo. sabagay pag technician ka lahat gusto mo matuklasan, :roll:
at payo ko lang if you a budget go for a branded one para hindi sumakit ang ulo nyo.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 02, 2011, 11:17:37 PM
+1 sa hindi paggamit ng 2-ohms loading. personally di rin ako magloload below 4ohms. nagrereply lang ako sa discussions ng two ohms loading with rmx HD series kasi alam kong kaya talaga ng amp. kung 4 din lang na 8 ohms ang load mo to achieve two ohms loading, then you are in the area of diminishing returns. (comparing the power recieved by each of the 8ohm speakers comprising the 2-ohm combination with the power rating of the amp at 8ohms load, it will be lower. ) i assume uso ang 2-ohms loading sa mga areas na uso ang paramihan ng speakers (at palakasan)..
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 01:40:59 AM
Sir eirol at sir ligohttech alam namin maraming kayong pera pambili ng branded na mamahalin na gamit sa akin lang tinuturuan ko lang ang mga walang budet na pumili ng isang amp na babagay sa gamit nila mas madami dto na practical lang yung kaya nang bulsa at makabawi sa gastos :-D never ako nag sinabi na bumili sila ng live hehehe :-D note walang amp company na nagsabi na gamit niyo ang amp niyo sa 2 ohms ,kaya ang sabi ko hindi tumatagal pag gamitan niyo ng 2 ohms , At sa pag kilatis nang isang amp pakiusapan niyo ang dealer na buksan para makita mo anong part no ng transistor , tapos hanapin mo sa goggle makikita mo yung wattage ng parts times mo kung ilan pcs ang ginamit times mo ulit sa voltage na pumapasok sa trasistor duon malalaman mo na kung tama ba ang rating na nakasulat sa spec nila paano mo kukunan sa oscillescope kung hindi mo pa nabibili, kung branded ang bibilhin mo sigurado ko hindi mo na kaylangan nang pagtesting bilhin mo na lang pero kung kaya nang bulsa mo hehehe , spend your money wisely, hirap kitahin ngayon ang pera :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: tjlimjoco on February 03, 2011, 06:41:00 AM
0k ang amP kung anG nagbibigAy ng reviewS ay anG nagbeBenta. Make Sense? :roll:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 06:52:20 AM
Sir eirol at sir ligohttech alam namin maraming kayong pera pambili ng branded na mamahalin na gamit sa akin lang tinuturuan ko lang ang mga walang budet na pumili ng isang amp na babagay sa gamit nila mas madami dto na practical lang yung kaya nang bulsa at makabawi sa gastos :-D never ako nag sinabi na bumili sila ng live hehehe :-D
the way you answer posts kasi ay parang binabash yung mga ibang amps. i am just irritated when endorsers of brand x bashes other brands to make brand x look good. i am not rich, i buy chinese products din. in fact nag-umpisa ako sa mga diy amps.
note walang amp company na nagsabi na gamit niyo ang amp niyo sa 2 ohms ,kaya ang sabi ko hindi tumatagal pag gamitan niyo ng 2 ohms ,
sa quote ni sir eirol from qsc website, ""Like its smaller sibling (the RMX 1850HD), the RMX 4050HD is one of two RMX "Heavy Duty" models designed to work as hard into 2 ohm loads as most competing amplifiers will at 4 ohms." so i think there is at least one company that says so..
At sa pag kilatis nang isang amp pakiusapan niyo ang dealer na buksan para makita mo anong part no ng transistor , tapos hanapin mo sa goggle makikita mo yung wattage ng parts times mo kung ilan pcs ang ginamit times mo ulit sa voltage na pumapasok sa trasistor duon malalaman mo na kung tama ba ang rating na nakasulat sa spec nila paano mo kukunan sa oscillescope kung hindi mo pa nabibili, kung branded ang bibilhin mo sigurado ko hindi mo na kaylangan nang pagtesting bilhin mo na lang pero kung kaya nang bulsa mo hehehe , spend your money wisely, hirap kitahin ngayon ang pera :-D
transistor wattage times number of pieces times voltage= power? i don't think so, that is not a valid formula to compute power output.. kung mapapaki-usapan yung dealer na buksan ang ampli na hindi mo pa nabibili (which will destroy factory warranty seals if there is any), then siguro naman papayag sya sa non-destructive testing with an oscilloscope. :-D at tsaka sinagot ko lang naman po yung tanong ninyo kanina paano malalaman kung totoo ang specified power rating ng isang amp. tapos nung sinagot ko yung tanong ninyo ng sa palagay ko ay technically correct na sagot , nag-iba na ang sitwasyon. yung amp pala na iveverify, di pa pala nabibili.. ano ba talaga kuya? :-D if you really care about where to spend your hard earned money, i suggest you research first on a product you intend on buying. wag magtanong sa dealer kung ok ba ang product nila kasi walang dealer ang magsasabi na hindi ok ang ibinebenta nila. ask the users of that product then from that decide if it is worth buying. also know the limits of the product, and use it properly. sometimes it is better to buy a more expensive but reputable product(branded) as compared to buying a cheap product but will be plagued with problems later on that you will end up spending more.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 07:20:46 AM
Ok cge magdala na lang tayo ng oscilloscope palagi pag bibili tayo ng amp. Para malaman niyo kung ok yung amp or just simple things to do lang, kayo na lang bahala mga sir sana naman kung pahiramin mo na lang kami nang mga test instrument mo, or may papayag bang tindahan na pa oscilliscope nila paninda nila or mas madali kung pa open na lang ang cover nang amp ano kaya sasabihin nang tindera na gagamitan mo muna nang oscilliscope bago mo bilihin ang unit. Pag branded wala nang testing ok na yun basahin mo na lang yung reviews sabi ni sir tjlimjoco. :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 07:58:14 AM
Alam niyo ba bakit mahal ang branded bukod sa maganda matibay mas malaki binabayaran nila sa adds promotion at pag sali nila sa mga pala show dyan napupunta ang binabayaran niyo milyon ang gastos nila sa palagay mo saan nila babawiin ang ginastos nila sa pag sikat nang product nila
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 09:38:46 AM
Alam niyo ba bakit mahal ang branded bukod sa maganda matibay mas malaki binabayaran nila sa adds promotion at pag sali nila sa mga pala show dyan napupunta ang binabayaran niyo milyon ang gastos nila sa palagay mo saan nila babawiin ang ginastos nila sa pag sikat nang product nila
mahal kasi sila ang nagdedesign, nagbabayad sila ng engineers, then testing, torture test nila hanggang umusok, binabato ang ampli sa itaas ng building nila, pupulutin, then itetesting ulit. then if papasa saka sila magproproduce ng maramihan for selling. kaya sa branded amps wala lumalabas na model taon taon, kasi malaki puhunan sa R&D.and they use superior reliable components which adds to the price.
pag china brands, ayun kopyahin na lang nila gawa ng branded, tapos na, no sweat,paandarin, i calibrate, then sell na . and they use inferior components compared to components used by leading brands
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 09:59:51 AM
Sir eirol at sir ligohttech alam namin maraming kayong pera pambili ng branded na mamahalin na gamit sa akin lang tinuturuan ko lang ang mga walang budet na pumili ng isang amp na babagay sa gamit nila mas madami dto na practical lang yung kaya nang bulsa at makabawi sa gastos :-D never ako nag sinabi na bumili sila ng live hehehe :-D note walang amp company na nagsabi na gamit niyo ang amp niyo sa 2 ohms ,kaya ang sabi ko hindi tumatagal pag gamitan niyo ng 2 ohms , At sa pag kilatis nang isang amp pakiusapan niyo ang dealer na buksan para makita mo anong part no ng transistor , tapos hanapin mo sa goggle makikita mo yung wattage ng parts times mo kung ilan pcs ang ginamit times mo ulit sa voltage na pumapasok sa trasistor duon malalaman mo na kung tama ba ang rating na nakasulat sa spec nila paano mo kukunan sa oscillescope kung hindi mo pa nabibili, kung branded ang bibilhin mo sigurado ko hindi mo na kaylangan nang pagtesting bilhin mo na lang pero kung kaya nang bulsa mo hehehe , spend your money wisely, hirap kitahin ngayon ang pera :-D
wala nga pera sir kaya kinikilatis namin bibilhin namin maigi, barok nga system namin eh
anong formula yun sir? wattage na nga times voltage pa? anong unit na lalabas yun? as far as i know power is the product of voltage and current. and voltage squared divided by the load resistance or current squared multiplied by the load resistance. specs ng transistor is just their power dissipation, most amps are not that efficient, di lahat sa signal lang napupunta, some are wasted in the form of heat, then if yung designer used only what percentage of the power dissipation ng device ang ginamit para mas reliable, di na natin masyado malalaman yun
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 10:36:22 AM
D naman ko sinabi na accurate yung fomula ko plus minus 10% lang yung sakin para madaling mo mahuha kung ok yung amp o hindi , hindi naman tayong puwede magdala ng oscilliscope palagi mayron lang batayan yung bibili , walang perfect sa audio no end yan palaging may bagong lalabas Sir eirol alam ko alam mo yung paliwanag ko hindi sagot sa lahat ang gumanit ng oscilliescope hindi lahat kagaya mo na alam gumamit yan test instrument yung sa akin para sa lahat mas intindihan mas simple ika nga. Pero thanks for the replys may natutunan din ang mga mag babasa sa mga paliwanag natin.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 01:46:23 PM
D naman ko sinabi na accurate yung fomula ko plus minus 10% lang yung sakin para madaling mo mahuha kung ok yung amp o hindi , hindi naman tayong puwede magdala ng oscilliscope palagi mayron lang batayan yung bibili , walang perfect sa audio no end yan palaging may bagong lalabas Sir eirol alam ko alam mo yung paliwanag ko hindi sagot sa lahat ang gumanit ng oscilliescope hindi lahat kagaya mo na alam gumamit yan test instrument yung sa akin para sa lahat mas intindihan mas simple ika nga. Pero thanks for the replys may natutunan din ang mga mag babasa sa mga paliwanag natin.
di ko sinasabing accurate yang formula mo sir, mali yan!! watts times voltage eh walang formula na ganyan..
gamitin na lang (supply voltage/ 1.414)squared divided by load resistance, mataas yan lalabas, pero pag mas mataas pa kaysa nacompute mo yung sinasabing power ng amp na bibilhin mo duda ka na,
for example sa qsc rmx 850, supply voltage is 67 Vdc 67/1.414=47.38 47.38 squared=2234
at 8 ohms load. power = 2234/8=280 watts
the rmx 850 is rated at 200 watts @8 ohms. mas mataas ang computed value, pero talagang sagad na yun. then if specs ng rmx is sinabing 300 watts at 8 ohms.. duda na
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 02:09:24 PM
D naman ko sinabi na accurate yung fomula ko plus minus 10% lang yung sakin para madaling mo mahuha kung ok yung amp o hindi ...
first i would like to make an apology to forumers, di na po sana ako sasagot para hindi hahaba ang discussion pero i strongly feel na i must straighten a myth being offered as technically true.
sir ultimate, with all due respects sir, your formula is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off.. sige sabihin na nating empirical formula and disregard the unit of the result. let's examine say QSC RMX1850HD. published specs is (FTC) 350w at 8r, 550w at 4r and 900w at 2r. it uses 4 pairs of 2sc5200/2sa1943 transistors. high rail voltage is at 88V and low rail at 44V. so with your formula that is power rating of transistor times the number of transistors times voltage is 150W x 4 x 88 = 52800W.. 52.8kW, ano ito plus minus 10% ng P.M.P.O? :-D masyadong mataas ang result ng formula kahit pa sa lower rail voltage i-compute. partida na yung number of pairs ang nilagay ko, hindi number of transistors. kahit i-derate pa yung pd sa 10%, masyado pa ring malayo.
by the way yung 150W ay Pd ng 2sc5200 (http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/docs/datasheet/en/Transistor/2SC5200_en_datasheet_101102.pdf) at 2sa1943 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bucek.name%2Fpdf%2F2sa1943.pdf&ei=7EdKTfLsDcqmhAejlei7Dg&usg=AFQjCNF3DF85m_hr5DbNx-UOPFBdlsiLjg&sig2=POhoDG-kVmdk5lOO3jOBXg).
yung formula ni sir eirol, mas malapit pa sa katotohanan. you can actually use that formula as a "ceiling" or upper limit. if the published specs is equal or higher than the results of that formula, then the published specs is "padded". (this holds for non BTL amps). to be more accurate, you could measure the voltage while the amp is operating (kung papayag na buksan) then subtract 5-10V as voltage drops across emitter resistors and transistors and use it instead. again, this is just a ballpark formula. to be able to get the ACTUAL power output, measurement with an oscilloscope, IMHO, is a must.
edit: fixed 2sa1943 datasheet url
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: king_james on February 03, 2011, 02:21:16 PM
I've been using QSC RMX5050 for 4 years now and we don't have failure issues for the longest time. We did however busted our DAS 18" when a group rented our subs and they were using these Chinese amps - Crell model. :cry: :cry:
There were instances when we compared the sound quality of our QSC RMX with any Chinese made/designed amps - Sound Stnadard, Music Focus, Konzert K10, BTS, Crell etc., and we all agree that not just the sound quality is obvious but also the over-all sound integrity. All attributed to QSC amp. 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 02:29:30 PM
Hindi naman ganyan ang formula ko medyo malapit si sir eirol pero kay sir lighttech malayo sa akin pero am sure d ako puwedeng mag kamali sa dami ng mga amp na hawakan ko hindi lumalayo ang rating sa pag kuwenta ko . Sa factory hindi pa ginagawa ang isang amp alam na kung ilan power trasistor at volt ang gagamitin nila para maabot ang wattage na gusto nilang gawin hindi naman puwede gagawin nila muna bago malanan ang wattage may bilang talaga yan mga boys para dumating ka sa tamang wattage na gusto ni lang gawin , alangan gagawin muna nila tapos gagamitan ng oscillescope bago nila sasabihin ang wattage ng amp may pano na talagang wattage sila bago nila gawin kung ilan wattage ang gagawin nila
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 02:33:59 PM
Hindi naman ganyan ang formula ko medyo malapit si sir eirol pero kay sir lighttech malayo sa akin pero am sure d ako puwedeng mag kamali sa dami ng mga amp na hawakan ko hindi lumalayo ang rating sa pag kuwenta ko . Sa factory hindi pa ginagawa ang isang amp alam na kung ilan power trasistor at volt ang gagamitin nila para maabot ang wattage na gusto nilang gawin hindi naman puwede gagawin nila muna bago malanan ang wattage may bilang talaga yan mga boys para dumating ka sa tamang wattage na gusto ni lang gawin , alangan gagawin muna nila tapos gagamitan ng oscillescope bago nila sasabihin ang wattage ng amp may pano na talagang wattage sila bago nila gawin kung ilan wattage ang gagawin nila
sir sinundan ko lang yung sinabi nyo sa post ninyo.
sir kaya nga may R&D.. magdedesign sila, tapos gagawa ng prototype then make lots of design veirfication measurements, then if it passes the tests, then the design goes to the factory for mass production. talagang gagawa muna sila ng amp, tapos susukatin using not just an oscillioscope but a lot of other audio test instruments to verify their design.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 02:36:45 PM
Am sure QSC is very good quality no question even crown macro tech malalakas at matitibay :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 02:43:52 PM
btw, all amps of some qsc models undergo thru tests using oscilloscope + dummy load to set the current limit trimmers. the procedure is stated on qsc service manuals, you can check if you have one.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 02:47:04 PM
At sa pag kilatis nang isang amp pakiusapan niyo ang dealer na buksan para makita mo anong part no ng transistor , tapos hanapin mo sa goggle makikita mo yung wattage ng parts times mo kung ilan pcs ang ginamit times mo ulit sa voltage na pumapasok sa trasistor duon malalaman mo na kung tama ba ang rating na nakasulat sa spec nila paano mo kukunan sa oscillescope kung hindi mo pa nabibili, kung branded ang bibilhin mo sigurado ko hindi mo na kaylangan nang pagtesting bilhin mo na lang pero kung kaya nang bulsa mo hehehe , spend your money wisely, hirap kitahin ngayon ang pera :-D
sir eto po yung post ninyo regarding sa formula.. baka sabihin pa ng iba na ako ang nag-imbento niyan.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 02:59:24 PM
Sir eirol saludo ako sayo Halos paheras lang tayo na lumabas na sagot sa rmx 850 yung watts na compute ko hindi tayo nagkakalayo yan ang simple na makukuha ang tamang wattage isa isang amp ibang paraan lang ang ginamit ko sa pag compute .
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 03:10:53 PM
number of transistors used is just for the for the power handling sir ultimate, not for the power output. yung ibang amps minsan use same pcb ng lower at higher model. binabawasan lang nila ng power transistor at iba ang supply voltage, now if you add more transistors sa bakanteng slots, di sya tataas ng power. kahit taasan mo ng supply di rin sure na tataas power nya kasi baka iba ang gain sa design ng higher model
qsc rmx 1450, rmx 1850hd, rmx 2450 uses same numbers of output trannies, same part number, but different out put power ang mga ampli, kakataka ano?! voltage gain nila is 40x(32dB), 46x(33db) and 50x(34dB) respectively
lower powered amps have lower gain. higher has higher voltage gain.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 03:11:22 PM
Sir lightech basahin mo na lang post ni sir eirol mas madali mong makuha ang formula
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 03:17:47 PM
Sir eirol saludo ako sayo Halos paheras lang tayo na lumabas na sagot sa rmx 850 yung watts na compute ko hindi tayo nagkakalayo yan ang simple na makukuha ang tamang wattage isa isang amp ibang paraan lang ang ginamit ko sa pag compute .
sir ultimate mag post ka na lang ng sample computation mo para maliwanagan ang lahat based on your formula,, based on sir lighttech explanations mas waaay hightech pa sya sa akin, wala ako arguement kay sir lighttech, hats off ako sau sir lighttech. E.C.E po ba kau sir lighttech?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 03:18:40 PM
Sir lightech basahin mo na lang post ni sir eirol mas madali mong makuha ang formula
sir with all due respects, alam ko na po yung formula na yun. sa basic electronics pa lang tinuturo na yun. at wag ninyong sabihing malapit ang formula ninyo sa post ninyo (http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,133817.msg3062661.html#msg3062661) sa formula na P=IIR or P=VI or P=VV/R.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 03:25:42 PM
sir ultimate mag post ka na lang ng sample computation mo para maliwanagan ang lahat based on your formula,, based on sir lighttech explanations mas waaay hightech pa sya sa akin, wala ako arguement kay sir lighttech, hats off ako sau sir lighttech. E.C.E po ba kau sir lighttech?
:-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 03:28:25 PM
Bakit si sir eirol nakukuha niya ang ibig kong sabihinbnong una palang sory kung hindi mo makuha
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 03:32:21 PM
You can get it for just simple basic math you dont have an ece degree to solve it :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
Sir eirol saludo ako sayo Halos paheras lang tayo na lumabas na sagot sa rmx 850 yung watts na compute ko hindi tayo nagkakalayo yan ang simple na makukuha ang tamang wattage isa isang amp ibang paraan lang ang ginamit ko sa pag compute .
i second the request of sir eirol. paki show kung paano ang computation.
RMX850 number of otput transistor Pairs per channel == 3pairs of 2sc5200/2sa1943 supply voltage == 67Vdc 2sc5200/2sa1943 Pd == 150W
anyway, kung mapapansin ninyo lamang lang ng isang pares ng output trannie ang rmx1850HD compared sa rmx850, pero take note na class H ang RMX1850HD.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 03:36:46 PM
You can get it for just simple basic math you dont have an ece degree to solve it :-D
bakit sir, sino bang nagsabing kailangang maging ece para ma-solve yan? :-D wala ngang nagsasabi/nagyayabang na ece sila dito sa thread na ito e. hehehe :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 04:34:16 PM
Bakit si sir eirol nakukuha niya ang ibig kong sabihinbnong una palang sory kung hindi mo makuha
sorry sir di ko kuha ang ibig mong sabihin. ako nga nagtatanong ng example computation mo based on your formula kung mag aarrive tayo sa same or near values..
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 04:44:03 PM
i second the request of sir eirol. paki show kung paano ang computation.
RMX850 number of otput transistor Pairs per channel == 3pairs of 2sc5200/2sa1943 supply voltage == 67Vdc 2sc5200/2sa1943 Pd == 150W
anyway, kung mapapansin ninyo lamang lang ng isang pares ng output trannie ang rmx1850HD compared sa rmx850, pero take note na class H ang RMX1850HD.
sir ultimate; ayan sir may given data ka na. pakicompute na yung power output based on your formula/computation. para magkaliwanagan na, :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 04:48:22 PM
Sir eirol ibang paraan ginawa mo ibang paraan ang sakin ang ginawa ko lang ay kinuha ko ang volt transistor at voltage nang amp kinuha ko ang percentage na ginamit nang amp times mo sa percentage na ginamit sa wattage nang trasistor times mo kung ilan transistot , hehehe sir lighttech gigi na gigil ka maku ha
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: constantpressure on February 03, 2011, 04:51:31 PM
Sir eirol ibang paraan ginawa mo ibang paraan ang sakin ang ginawa ko lang ay kinuha ko ang volt transistor at voltage nang amp kinuha ko ang percentage na ginamit nang amp times mo sa percentage na ginamit sa wattage nang trasistor times mo kung ilan transistot , hehehe sir lighttech gigi na gigil ka maku ha
kahit ano na sir, ipakita mo na, times times lang naman yan, ipakita mo numbers, para maliwanag :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 04:53:57 PM
Sir eirol ibang paraan ginawa mo ibang paraan ang sakin ang ginawa ko lang ay kinuha ko ang volt transistor at voltage nang amp kinuha ko ang percentage na ginamit nang amp times mo sa percentage na ginamit sa wattage nang trasistor times mo kung ilan transistot , hehehe sir lighttech gigi na gigil ka maku ha
hehe, hindi po ako nanggigigil.. natatawa na nga lang ako sa mga palusot ninyo. lagi ninyong dinadivert/iniiwasan ang discussion. ayan na nga may data na di nyo pa ipakita yung computation.. so to be clear, i am not asking you to show your computation so that i will know your "secret" formula.. i am not interested in that, i am just interested if there is just a bit of technical truth on or not.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 04:56:34 PM
Cge mas marunong ka sir lighttech ikaw na lang :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 04:57:24 PM
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 05:34:42 PM
250x26 = 67.5 volt ginamit 26% was use in the power trasistor 150x .26= 39 x mo 6 six pcs ginamit na trasistor 234 w at 8 ohms ayan para matigil na kayo kaka ta nong hehehe ibang paraan yan sa pag solve ko d tayo paheras
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 05:41:04 PM
250x26 = 67.5 volt ginamit 26% was use in the power trasistor 150x .26= 39 x mo 6 six pcs ginamit na trasistor 234 w at 8 ohms ayan para matigil na kayo kaka ta nong hehehe ibang paraan yan sa pag solve ko d tayo paheras
saan mo nakuha yung 26% na factor mo sir? paano na yun pag sa higher model like rmx 2450. 4 pcs din ang power transistors, same na 150 watts din,, di same 234 watts din?.. at saan galing yung 250 na data mo?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 05:45:51 PM
Kunin mo kung ilan % ang ginagamit ng voltage para alam mo kung tatama sa sukat na ginagamit ng amp kay langan mo muna malaman ang sukat ng voltage mapapasin mo sabi mo 67v ginamit ng qsc youn 26 % na yung lang ang pumapasok na volage sa transistor kung ayaw niyo paniwalaan wala naman ako mapapala
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 06:21:52 PM
Yung 250 yan ang max voltage ng transistor na ginamit sa qsc is using 2sc5200 150w 250v nahapin niyo sa goggle
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 03, 2011, 06:42:46 PM
250x26 = 67.5 volt ginamit 26% was use in the power trasistor 150x .26= 39 x mo 6 six pcs ginamit na trasistor 234 w at 8 ohms ayan para matigil na kayo kaka ta nong hehehe ibang paraan yan sa pag solve ko d tayo paheras
Kunin mo kung ilan % ang ginagamit ng voltage para alam mo kung tatama sa sukat na ginagamit ng amp kay langan mo muna malaman ang sukat ng voltage mapapasin mo sabi mo 67v ginamit ng qsc youn 26 % na yung lang ang pumapasok na volage sa transistor kung ayaw niyo paniwalaan wala naman ako mapapala
so with this formula, given the same power supply voltage tataas ang output power kung magdadagdag laang ng transistors? wow.
tsaka sir, paano ngayon yan, e, 230V lang ang Vceo ng 2sa1943? wala bang epekto sa computation?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 07:17:31 PM
250x26 = 67.5 volt ginamit 26% was use in the power trasistor 150x .26= 39 x mo 6 six pcs ginamit na trasistor 234 w at 8 ohms ayan para matigil na kayo kaka ta nong hehehe ibang paraan yan sa pag solve ko d tayo paheras
applied pa pala sa lahat ng power trannies, di lang yung 3 per side? kasi yung 67 volts is applied to only 3 power trannies per supply side. and per side is dapat kaya nya yung 200 watts :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 03, 2011, 07:22:00 PM
3 sa positive side 3 sa negative side push pull
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 07:47:03 PM
magdagdag na lang pala ng output trannies na ayon sa formula ni mr ultimate. then tataas na output power, .. :-D :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 08:05:32 PM
mga ka forum post ko na lang ito from another forum, guide nyo na lang sa simple computations regarding amplifier power. http://www.electronicslab.ph/forum/index.php?topic=10877.300 check nyo yung post ni tip top hack. yan ang pinakamadali,na yun din ang sinabi ko except yung less 5v na sinabi nya as well as nasabi ni sir lighttech,
di ka na magdadala ng databook ng trannies if bibili ng ampli, :-D to check the trannies data.
check also tony's post regarding the use of signal gen, oscilloscope etc to verify amplifier performance
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: leoman53 on February 03, 2011, 08:25:57 PM
mr ultimate. it is very obvious from your posts that you do not know anything about audio amplifier designs...you remind me of myself when i was starting in electronics some 40 years ago..........sorry but you really haven't got any clue....i suggest that you read all about power amplifiers, this is a good place to start. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_amplifier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_amplifier) and this one also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: tjlimjoco on February 03, 2011, 08:34:20 PM
mr ultimate. it is very obvious from your posts that you do not know anything about audio amplifier designs...you remind me of myself when i was starting in electronics some 40 years ago..........sorry but you really haven't got any clue....i suggest that you read all about power amplifiers, this is a good place to start. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_amplifier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_amplifier) and this one also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power)
0bvi0us anG persistence nya dahiL SUPPLIER cya Ng LIVE. :-D
mga ka forum post ko na lang ito from another forum, guide nyo na lang sa simple computations regarding amplifier power. http://www.electronicslab.ph/forum/index.php?topic=10877.300 check nyo yung post ni tip top hack. yan ang pinakamadali,na yun din ang sinabi ko except yung less 5v na sinabi nya as well as si sir lighttech, di ka na magdadala ng databook ng trannies if bibili ng ampli, :-D to check the trannies data.
check also tony's post regarding the use of signal gen, oscilloscope etc to verify amplifier performance
+1 DapaT may ibanG s0urces para hindi biAs anG sag0t. :lol:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 03, 2011, 08:53:24 PM
mr ultimate. it is very obvious from your posts that you do not know anything about audio amplifier designs...you remind me of myself when i was starting in electronics some 40 years ago..........sorry but you really haven't got any clue....i suggest that you read all about power amplifiers, this is a good place to start. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_amplifier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_amplifier) and this one also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power)
may bulate yung first equation sir,, kakatakot,, hehehe
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: barracks01 on February 03, 2011, 09:06:54 PM
oy mainit ang balitaktakan dito.
watch mode :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: leoman53 on February 03, 2011, 09:20:30 PM
lahat naman ng bagay natututuhan, basta keep an open mind and accept the possibility that you do not know....
you can own all the expensive and heavyweight amps, pero kung hindi mo alam....lalabas yon.... :wink:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 04, 2011, 12:58:24 AM
naku, the attitude.. sir tony, pasensya na po. :oops: sir mr. ultimate, kung di ninyo po alam, si sir leoman (also known as tony of elab and diy audio) ay respetado at isang "master" sa audio amp.. newbie man sya dito dahil ngayon lang napadpad sa forum na ito, pero sa ibang forums maituturing na syang haligi.. and mind you, hindi lang sya sa tube amps bihasa, pati sa solid state. kayang kaya nyang maghimay ng design at sabihin ang mga areas for improvement. baka mas marami pa syang nagawang solid state amp (hindi repair but build) kaysa po sa inyo.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 04, 2011, 01:19:58 AM
Hehehe am just joking sir tony pasencia na po n hindi ko kayo nakilala kagad peace :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: sl1200ltd on February 04, 2011, 01:23:51 AM
Ha Ha Ha! :-D excuse me po! PASOK!...
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: lighttech on February 04, 2011, 03:49:54 AM
at biglang may nagdelete ng post.. :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 04, 2011, 06:59:35 AM
si sir tony pala si leoman.. have a nice day sir! anyone dare to challenge sir leoman regarding amp circuits? :-D :-D :-D :lol:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: barracks01 on February 04, 2011, 07:12:51 AM
lurker ako sa electronicslab, nababasa ko ang mga post ni sir tony. bihasa sya sa larangan ng amp. lalo na s tube amp. sarap nga mag basa ng mga forum nya.
anyway kaya may forum, is to enhance the knowledge di ba. kung hindi mo alam.....magtanong. at kung alam mo ei share mo.
IHMO lang po
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: pedge22 on February 04, 2011, 10:19:20 AM
OT: Sir Eirol_99 kayo po ba si Richard Lim? :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 04, 2011, 02:27:07 PM
no sir. di po ako dealer, distributor or anything connected with a company selling and manufacturing pro audio equipments, end user lang po, both branded and china made pro audio products... and also diy. hehehe.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: tjlimjoco on February 04, 2011, 02:47:27 PM
no sir. di po ako dealer, distributor or anything connected with a company selling and manufacturing pro audio equipments, end user lang po, both branded and china made pro audio products... and also diy. hehehe.
GanYan dapat dt0 b0z. AnG mga supplieRs dapAt nasa "Classifieds: Pr0 Audi0 Gear". Opini0n k0 lanG naman. :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: pedge22 on February 04, 2011, 03:41:19 PM
no sir. di po ako dealer, distributor or anything connected with a company selling and manufacturing pro audio equipments, end user lang po, both branded and china made pro audio products... and also diy. hehehe.
Ahh ok po. Naalala ko lang yung link sa Facebook na post mo 2nd page of this thread, it was Richard Lim's account. I actually added him as a friend(in FB) at nagkataon habang ine-explore ko yung pics nya nakita ko na sa kanya pala ako bumili last year ng Crell amp, processors, etc. :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 04, 2011, 03:47:38 PM
Ahh ok po. Naalala ko lang yung link sa Facebook na post mo 2nd page of this thread, it was Richard Lim's account. I actually added him as a friend(in FB) at nagkataon habang ine-explore ko yung pics nya nakita ko na sa kanya pala ako bumili last year ng Crell amp, processors, etc. :-)
ah ic, may nag comment ata na friend ko sa FB sa mga pics nya at dun ko na nakita yung crell amp stacks sir. ayan na naman crell na naman, baka sabihin endorser ako ng crell dito.. :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: pedge22 on February 04, 2011, 04:27:58 PM
Ahh ok po. Anyways back to our topic. san na ba si mr. ultimate? :-D :lol:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: constantpressure on February 04, 2011, 06:46:36 PM
Ahh ok po. Anyways back to our topic. san na ba si mr. ultimate? :-D :lol:
HaH?!...wala na si Mr. Ultimate?! (parang keyboard at mic stand yun ah)...
Boring na...
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: constantpressure on February 04, 2011, 08:05:09 PM
Hindi ganun kadali yung tina-tackle na issue nyo dito Mr. Ultimate...as in pooping up a cover will give you a quick right guess on how brute an amplifier will be...if i were in your shoes i will stand corrected.
There may be a quick way to get how much an amp can do...by using a simple AC VOM, a DC digital VOM, a Tone Generator (a software can do) and a Dummy load (Resistive Load).
Since very expensive ang R loads in High Wattage...I use to make nicrome wire heaters cut them to get 8Ω,4Ω,2Ω...you need ceramic beads to insulate them. (DONT TOUCH HOT)
The above can do rough presumption how much amp can do at various frequency.
AC meter to get max ACout, DC meter to get DCout...
but, if you really want to be more accurate you'll need a Scope, RMS meter in addition...
Now you can get your: 1.Frequency Responce 2.Amplifier Gain 3.THD and IMD 4.Continuous Full Power Bandwidth 5.1kHz Power Sweep vs Distortion 6.Dynamic Power 7.Signal to Noise Ratio 8.Crosstalk 9.Amplifier Output Impedance 10.Damping Factor
The above will be a tedious task and very hard without a precision tool like AP APx585 HDMI.
Magandang araw, jojo
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 04, 2011, 08:12:59 PM
+100 sir jojo audio precision workbench the best, most or nearly all branded amps manufacturer, pro audio or home audio may have it on their labs...
bakit tahimik ka noon sir jojo? para di na sana umabot kay sir tony si mr ultimate. di masyado "OUCH" sana, :-D :-D
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: constantpressure on February 04, 2011, 08:25:13 PM
+100 sir jojo audio precision workbench the best, most or nearly all branded amps manufacturer, pro audio or home audio may have it on their labs...
bakit tahimik ka noon sir jojo? para di na sana umabot kay sir tony si mr ultimate. di masyado "OUCH" sana, :-D :-D
nag-lalagare ako ng kahoy di ba?...hehehe...anyway ang hirap din pumasok sa Philmusik laging "Server not found".
Have fun... jojo
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 04, 2011, 09:31:42 PM
Wag niyo akong husgahan hindi niyo alam kung saan ako nang galing hindi niyo alam ang background kung ilan amps na diy ang nagawa ko para sa mobile ang alam niyo lang nag promote ako nang live anong masama ba kung mag promote ako kanyang kang paniniwala kung ayaw niyo irespeto ang ang pananao wag nalang kayong mang insulto
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: kupaloids on February 05, 2011, 03:23:01 AM
Wag niyo akong husgahan hindi niyo alam kung saan ako nang galing hindi niyo alam ang background kung ilan amps na diy ang nagawa ko para sa mobile ang alam niyo lang nag promote ako nang live anong masama ba kung mag promote ako kanyang kang paniniwala kung ayaw niyo irespeto ang ang pananao wag nalang kayong mang insulto
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: barracks01 on February 05, 2011, 06:42:51 AM
hala nag aaway na eheehehe. back to the topic para hindi ot.
ano nga ba maganda crell or sound standard? i have a crell before CA20 pero nabenta na, when i was a kid and starting my kid hobby on any electronics parts my father bought me an Atua solid state amplifier. He modify it and its sounds great. Did anyone here own an Atua SS amp.?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on February 05, 2011, 07:39:31 AM
Sir barracks alam niyo ba saan ginaya ang brand ng crell check this out www.krellonline.com this is a high hi brand ok amp its very expensive.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: leoman53 on February 05, 2011, 07:50:24 AM
ang mga kano kasi sa china nila pinagagawa yung mga designs nila.....kaya nga dahil me transfer of technology, maraming clones ang naglabasan, panalo dito ang mga consumers na tulad natin........ :-D
noong early 70's sa japan nila pinagagawa yung mga marantz, fisher, etc....
as ussual nabypass na naman ang pinas.... :evil:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: spacejam on February 05, 2011, 08:17:26 AM
ang mga kano kasi sa china nila pinagagawa yung mga designs nila.....kaya nga dahil me transfer of technology, maraming clones ang naglabasan, panalo dito ang mga consumers na tulad natin........ :-D
noong early 70's sa japan nila pinagagawa yung mga marantz, fisher, etc....
as ussual nabypass na naman ang pinas.... :evil:
yes sir Leoman... kadalasan kasi sa china pumupunta ang mga US companies... in terms of manpower,mura ang labor, harworking and efficient and walang union strike... in terms of infrastructure naman... marami silang highways and skyways kaya mas mabllis rin ang delivery time nila... kadalasan dyan bumibili ang mga china company ng original na US brand tapos pina pa copy nila yun, may slight modification para maging mura before it was Japan then Taiwan now sa China na in a few years i think pupunta na sa ibang bansa tulad ng Vietnam dahil presently tumataas na rin mga sahod ang mga china laborers .... and pine pressure ngayon ng US na taasan ang value ng china money RMB.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: barracks01 on February 05, 2011, 10:14:30 AM
yes sir Leoman... kadalasan kasi sa china pumupunta ang mga US companies... in terms of manpower,mura ang labor, harworking and efficient and walang union strike... in terms of infrastructure naman... marami silang highways and skyways kaya mas mabllis rin ang delivery time nila... kadalasan dyan bumibili ang mga china company ng original na US brand tapos pina pa copy nila yun, may slight modification para maging mura before it was Japan then Taiwan now sa China na in a few years i think pupunta na sa ibang bansa tulad ng Vietnam dahil presently tumataas na rin mga sahod ang mga china laborers .... and pine pressure ngayon ng US na taasan ang value ng china money RMB.
+100 correct..
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: Max_C on February 05, 2011, 08:14:21 PM
yes sir Leoman... kadalasan kasi sa china pumupunta ang mga US companies... in terms of manpower,mura ang labor, harworking and efficient and walang union strike... in terms of infrastructure naman... marami silang highways and skyways kaya mas mabllis rin ang delivery time nila... kadalasan dyan bumibili ang mga china company ng original na US brand tapos pina pa copy nila yun, may slight modification para maging mura before it was Japan then Taiwan now sa China na in a few years i think pupunta na sa ibang bansa tulad ng Vietnam dahil presently tumataas na rin mga sahod ang mga china laborers .... and pine pressure ngayon ng US na taasan ang value ng china money RMB.
TAMA KA DYAN BRAD PERO IBA PA DIN KAPAG ANG COMPANY TULAD NG CROWN AT QSC ANG NAG-IIMPLEMENT NG "QUALITY CONTROL STANDARDS". GINAGAWANG ASSEMBLY LINE LANG ANG LUGAR SA CHINA DAHIL MURA LANG ANG LABOR DOON.
ANG CRELL NAMAN AT ANG LIVE POWERAMP SIGURADO AKO NA GENERIC LANG YAN NA KOPYA KOPYA AT HINDI TOTALLY MAGAGAYA ANG TECHNOLOGY NG MGA BRANDED AMPS . KWENTO NGA NG KAIBIGAN NAMIN NA SEAMAN NA HINDI PASADO YUNG MGA "PURE CHINA DESIGNS" SA EUROPE KAHIT MURA.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: eirol_99 on February 05, 2011, 09:59:16 PM
kahit kopya nila part by part at same calibration, but more inferior electronic components used = murang product = unreliable product. sa capacitors nila madali lomobo. less robust ang toroidal trafos nila. and some have too high power supply voltages na maliit na lang margin nila sa ginamit na power trannies. sometimes kahit branded na made or assembled in china may mga assembly faults din, mixer namin may extra screw, napunta sa smps niya, kaboom!!!
parang sa motorsiklo din, dami china, kopya sa branded, pero di naman makatakbo ng matulin, malakas ang vibration, at di long lasting lalo na pag dragster driver..
pero ok na rin china products, di na ako magmemention ng brand, :-D 2 china brands gamit namin na amps, so far di pa naman nanira ng speaker namin, di pa naman nag overheat, di namin sya load ng 2 ohms, di namin sya pinagclip, pero pinangdradrag race din namin minsan, hehehe. dragrace lang ha, hindi indy 500... :lol:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: spacejam on February 06, 2011, 10:38:21 AM
Yes sir max... Pag purely china design amplifier di binibili ng mga European and US company....kadalasan gusto nila yung branded copy ng MC2, Lab Gruppen, QSC,Crest Audio etc.. Ang mga US and european companies gusto nila digital amplifiers... Mas magaan and easier to set up... Mas mabenta sa kanila yun kaysa toroidal amplifier... Maraming amplifier company sa china... May mga malalaki, medium size and small companies... Marami rin klase model ng amplifier depende sa budget gusto mo. Pwede ka gawan ng mamahalin and mumurahin na amplifier... Same watts pero ang materials dun nagkakatalo... Syempre pag mura, mura components ibibigay... Ganoon din ang mahal... Class A rin ang parts Syempre pipiliin ng mga importers na pasok sa budget sa atin... Pag yung class A kasi mahal na halos price na ng branded... Tayo as consumer pipiliin syempre ang branded Kung di nagkakalayo ang price...
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: leoman53 on February 07, 2011, 08:45:18 AM
Wag niyo akong husgahan hindi niyo alam kung saan ako nang galing hindi niyo alam ang background kung ilan amps na diy ang nagawa ko para sa mobile ang alam niyo lang nag promote ako nang live anong masama ba kung mag promote ako kanyang kang paniniwala kung ayaw niyo irespeto ang ang pananao wag nalang kayong mang insulto
mr ultimate, you remind me of the time when i was new to amp builing, so hindi kita pwedeng husgahan.....meron akong friend na mahusay magbuo ng mga tube amps, kahit walang kaharap na schematic nakakabuo siya, at magandang tumunog yung mga gawa nya......yung nga lang pag tinanong mo sya tungkol sa kung paano nagtatrabaho yung mga piyesa, wala syang maisagot......pero kung tanungin mo sya kung anong mga piyesa ang mainam na gamitin, hindi dya maubusan ng masasabi......
para sa akin kailangan hindi lang alam mo kung paano pagkabit kabitin yung mga piyesa, dapat alam mo ang mga dahilan kung bakit at paano gumagana yung mga piyesa....
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: groundzeropro on February 07, 2011, 10:03:21 AM
No, di gawa/OEM ng soundstandard ang crell. malayo performance nila. crell kasi nag dc out. karamihan ng small factory sa china ginagaya ang soundstandard then yun mga business men dito sa pinas/UK naglalagay ng sariling brand. ni di mo makikita sa exibit sa ibang bansa ang crell,
eto official website ng soundstandard. http://www.saeaudio.com/products_detail.aspx?id=9&zhu=4 sila ang original na CA series.
sir try nyo rin po FAMOUSOUND AMPS. mas modelo at hi end kesa sound standard, gawa rin ng SAE.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: soundtech on February 25, 2011, 01:37:11 PM
BTS TRADING na ang distributor ng Soundstandard dito sa pinas 2156465 , 09178949274. CA20 45k srp.
sir tatlong product po ang gawa ng sae china, isa na dito ang soundstandard, lexon and famousound. soundstandard po ang entry level nila, pwede nyo po i check sa website ng sae...
BASSHEAD MARKETING po ang exclusive distributor ng famousound.......
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: tjlimjoco on February 25, 2011, 04:32:09 PM
sir tatlong product po ang gawa ng sae china, isa na dito ang soundstandard, lexon and famousound. soundstandard po ang entry level nila, pwede nyo po i check sa website ng sae...
BASSHEAD MARKETING po ang exclusive distributor ng famousound.......
B0z pakip0st sana yunG prices ng Lex0n at Fam0usound. TY :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: audioexpert on March 01, 2011, 10:06:50 AM
hala nag aaway na eheehehe. back to the topic para hindi ot.
ano nga ba maganda crell or sound standard? i have a crell before CA20 pero nabenta na, when i was a kid and starting my kid hobby on any electronics parts my father bought me an Atua solid state amplifier. He modify it and its sounds great. Did anyone here own an Atua SS amp.?
Of course. SOUNDSTANDARD. malinis tumunog, malakas at maganda ang punch ng bass, ok ang clipping system nya . Protektado ang speaker at 2ohm stable.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: bHONGz09 on May 06, 2011, 07:19:19 AM
mga Sir, good day po sa lahat,..patulong po,im from Digos city davao del sur,..ano po mganda china amp midhigh cabs for band setup outdoor setup. god bless..
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: audioexpert on May 06, 2011, 08:07:22 AM
Ca-12 sound standard for mid high :lol:
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: spacejam on May 06, 2011, 08:40:25 AM
Live FET 2000 1200w x2 8ohms OR FET 1000 1000w x 2 8ohms pwede sa mid or pwede sa bass... mosfet power transistors... pwede rin Live battle amp 1.0 sa mid... para sa may budget...
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: luffy on May 06, 2011, 10:18:16 AM
how much ang price ng live fet 1000 and 2000?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: soundtech on May 06, 2011, 05:02:28 PM
mga Sir, good day po sa lahat,..patulong po,im from Digos city davao del sur,..ano po mganda china amp midhigh cabs for band setup outdoor setup. god bless..
Sir maganda yung sound standard LA 3.6 malinis siyang tumunog 2X830w @ 8ohms, yun yung gamit ko pang midhigh, branded n hindi p masyadong mahal, 22k lng ang kuha ko sa raon.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on May 06, 2011, 11:40:06 PM
For mid /hi budget price Fet650 17,500 srp 650W per ch @ 8ohms
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: bHONGz09 on May 16, 2011, 01:29:10 AM
salamat po sa info about midtop china ampS:)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: bHONGz09 on May 16, 2011, 09:28:58 AM
mga sir paano po malalaman na totoo made by soundstantard ang isang amp na gawa nila?baka kase may copy na naman soundstandard brand para mas mdali mbenta product nila.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: spacejam on May 17, 2011, 10:17:36 AM
mga sir paano po malalaman na totoo made by soundstantard ang isang amp na gawa nila?baka kase may copy na naman soundstandard brand para mas mdali mbenta product nila.
Ayos ito ! Pati china brand kina copy ng mga ibang china factory... Walang patawad tsk....tsk....tsk....
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: tjlimjoco on May 19, 2011, 08:10:34 AM
Ayos ito ! Pati china brand kina copy ng mga ibang china factory... Walang patawad tsk....tsk....tsk....
:-D +1 B0z. Kaya nGa madaming J0L0GS na grup0 ngay0n dahil sa k0pyahan.
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: mr. ultimate on May 19, 2011, 08:39:30 AM
Ask niyo kay sir soundtech kung may copy na ba ang soundstandard
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: skyjammer on May 19, 2011, 09:38:08 AM
Ngayon ko lang nabasa ng buo ang thread na to. Madami akong natutunan pero ang pinaka-natutunan ko ay -- WALA PALA AKONG ALAM.
Kung sakaling mag-decide talaga akong mag-sideline sa ganitong industry, pag malaki ang budget, I'd go for the high-end brands and expect the best. Pag minimal ang budget, I'd go for china ones and hope for the best.
What I would NOT bother doing, after reading the thread, being a typical consumer that I am, is understand the complex world of amplifiers. I'll leave it to R&D. Pambihira, eh di sana ito na lang pinag-aralan ko nung college. Hehehe!
Madami na rin lang nag-OT... Alam nyo yung ginagamit naming amp sa church ay Kinetic FET-500 ni Sir Andrew Sevilla. For 15 years di pa nasisira. Dinala ko lang sa kanila kasi naawa ako sa itsura pina-Belo ko lang.
Sir ultimate, I sent you PM. Serious po ako dun sa query ko ha. :)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: soundtech on May 19, 2011, 03:16:13 PM
mga sir paano po malalaman na totoo made by soundstantard ang isang amp na gawa nila?baka kase may copy na naman soundstandard brand para mas mdali mbenta product nila.
So far wala pa akong nababalitaan fake na soundstandard. maraming kumopya sa design ng soundstandard(CA series). isa na dyan ang crell...
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: bHONGz09 on May 19, 2011, 09:32:51 PM
thank you po sa info sir soundtech:)
ask po ako kung may contact number po distributor ng soundstandard,...
may available na po ba na Famousound and Lexonpro amps?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: bHONGz09 on May 19, 2011, 10:23:56 PM
sa davao meron po ba distributor?
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: king_james on May 20, 2011, 12:37:15 PM
To learn more about a product, better ask and check the manufacturer's website. It really makes life easier. :-) :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA-20 vs. Soundstandard CA-20
Post by: soundtech on May 20, 2011, 02:10:51 PM