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The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: skunkyfunk on November 09, 2009, 02:48:41 PM
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Enough for the arguments about what is the best software, best preamp, best mics, etc. :wink:
I guess what most self-produced artists don't realize is that the biggest factor in a recording is the artists themselves. Of course, when you talk about production values, studio trickery comes into play that most of the time, the skill of the engineer and the producer tries to compensate for the lackluster performance of the artist. But in a level playing field, with no autotune, no cutting and pasting waveforms, the true sound of the artist just reflects in a recording, regardless of how good or bad the equipment is.
Here are two LIVE recordings done on multi-track a couple of years back in the studio. It was Muziklaban season so a lot came to record cover songs to complete their auditions. The two sessions had EXACTLY THE SAME SETUP. Same mic placement, same amps (a Laney AOR 50 and a Randall RM100) and everything was just leveled and EQ'd very lightly. It was just made for demo purposes and not for distribution. The first band recorded demos for 2 hours til the wee hours, and after leaving the same setup, the next band recorded for 2 hours too with the same studio setup. In fact, the same template was used for both bands.
Patawad po sa mga bandang ito, pero kung alam niyong kayo ito, keep everything to yourself. I am posting this without permission but I just want to prove a point.
Ana Molly Cover (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1008713&songID=8329359)
Cry Cover (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1008713&songID=8329360)
Same setup... two different bands. No autotune and overdubs. And they are of the same age bracket (college students, that is).
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Hi. Allow me to comment on the two songs you posted in spite of the fact that I consider myself a "fetus" when it comes to recording, mixing, etc. I can, however, tell a good recording from a bad one. And those two are both bad. The first one, "Anna Molly," (AM) was just slightly less bad than the second, "Cry" (C). AM had a few more EQ treatments--or should I call it improvements--as far as I can tell, the drums were all over the place and the bass was distorted. C's drums were tinny in comparison
I guess what most self-produced artists don't realize is that the biggest factor in a recording is the artists themselves.
That's true. You self-produce an album, all the blame is yours...
...But in a level playing field, with no autotune, no cutting and pasting waveforms, the true sound of the artist just reflects in a recording, regardless of how good or bad the equipment is.
I'm not sure about this. Obviously, when Sting records through a 4-track cassette recorder, it's gonna sound like Sting recorded through a 4-track cassette recorder. And when he records in Ocean Way Studios, he's gonna sound like a million bucks, right? Of course, how bad or good the equipment is comes into play. This is why I can't get myself to believe that both the bands you recorded were using the EXACT SAME SETUP, as you mentioned because they sound worlds apart and it's NOT the brand of guitar, the strings they used, or even the artistry of the artist. But of course you were witness to these facts so I can't argue that.
The first band recorded demos for 2 hours til the wee hours, and after leaving the same setup, the next band recorded for 2 hours too with the same studio setup. In fact, the same template was used for both bands.
Baka naman inantok na lahat!
Of course, when you talk about production values, studio trickery comes into play that most of the time, the skill of the engineer and the producer tries to compensate for the lackluster performance of the artist.
Now here is a point I'd also like to raise: Does the engineer just do exactly what the producer/artist says? Doesn't there come a point where even if the artist or producer says "Don't touch that dial!", you'd still go in--maybe secretly--and tweak that freaking bass into submission then pretend it magically just sounded better? A few years back, when I still didn't have my own little space in this vast recording universe, I used to track, mix and produce music for personal use in various studios--New Manila, Legaspi Village in Makati, Paranaque. The engineers were top of the line (I'm nice, ok?) and the equipment was more than adequate. What I distinctly remember was that while the engineers were doing everything I asked them, they would still find ways to "improve" on the sound by moving a fader here or twisting a knob there. And what an improvement each one introduced. What I'm saying is, an engineers job is not just to capture the sound in a recording but to also find a balance--both literally and figuratively--between what the artist/producer wants and what you think sounds sonically superior. I believe no work should come out of your studio without a stamp of approval from everyone (even if they don't include the engineer in the credits!). I mean, how BAD is the artist when he starts to sound like C in your example?
I'm not trying to point fingers on who made a wrong recording/mixing decision or if ever it was wrong in the first place. My point is, each one should play the role they were given to the best of their abilities so that each one can go home with that prized CD with a smile on their face and a dent in their wallets (or a bulge if you're the studio owner).
Peace!
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The point is not the recording but the performance and how it can affect the output of a record. The samples demoed the point very effectively..
Pero may point si alvincflorentinom, Baka nga naman inaantok na yung nag cover ng cry since madaling araw na. We should not judge the artist on this one sample only.
My only comment, magaling yung nag cover ng Ana Molly. :-D
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I can appreciate your intention here skunkyfunk BUT I would never post the work of other people without permission, famous or almost famous.
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kilala ko yung cry. schoolmates ko sila. regular din sila sa dating practice studio ko, so sigurado ako sila yan. heto nanaman ang mga kakilala! haha! :-D
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The point is not the recording but the performance and how it can affect the output of a record. The samples demoed the point very effectively..
Pero may point si alvincflorentinom, Baka nga naman inaantok na yung nag cover ng cry since madaling araw na. We should not judge the artist on this one sample only.
My only comment, magaling yung nag cover ng Ana Molly. :-D
Actually baliktad. Yung sa Cry yung sa tanghali, yung Ana Molly sa gabi. Same everything. puwede pa nga linising pareho yan dahil multi-track naman pero di naman kasi yun yung purpose. Gusto lang naman ipahiwatig dito na kahit hindi polished yung mix, yung performance pa rin may naidadagdag sa "listenability" ng mix.
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I forgot to mention, yung sa Ana Molly, inabot sila ng madaling araw, yung sa Cry sa umaga. Yung isa inabot ng closing time nung nagrecord, yung isa sa opening ng studio nagrecord.
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Now here is a point I'd also like to raise: Does the engineer just do exactly what the producer/artist says? Doesn't there come a point where even if the artist or producer says "Don't touch that dial!", you'd still go in--maybe secretly--and tweak that freaking bass into submission then pretend it magically just sounded better? A few years back, when I still didn't have my own little space in this vast recording universe, I used to track, mix and produce music for personal use in various studios--New Manila, Legaspi Village in Makati, Paranaque. The engineers were top of the line (I'm nice, ok?) and the equipment was more than adequate. What I distinctly remember was that while the engineers were doing everything I asked them, they would still find ways to "improve" on the sound by moving a fader here or twisting a knob there. And what an improvement each one introduced. What I'm saying is, an engineers job is not just to capture the sound in a recording but to also find a balance--both literally and figuratively--between what the artist/producer wants and what you think sounds sonically superior. I believe no work should come out of your studio without a stamp of approval from everyone (even if they don't include the engineer in the credits!). I mean, how BAD is the artist when he starts to sound like C in your example?
I'm not trying to point fingers on who made a wrong recording/mixing decision or if ever it was wrong in the first place. My point is, each one should play the role they were given to the best of their abilities so that each one can go home with that prized CD with a smile on their face and a dent in their wallets (or a bulge if you're the studio owner).
Peace!
This is very crucial. When the engineer makes a decision without the producer or artist's permission. It is no different from deciding to use Drumagog behind the drummer's back or doing an autotune to a vocal without them knowing.
As engineers, I think our role is not to dictate "what sounds better", but rather, to be transparent about the artist's options. Actually, I've already encountered a vocalist who told me verbatim, "If I find out that you Autotune my voice, I'm gonna curse you forever..." So what if he had a pitch problem somewhere in the performance, and the deadline is tomorrow, and the vocalist already left the building? I hope you can relate.
The mixing (actually I would hardly call it mixing) in this example was as such, because the artists didn't want to spend the extra time to clean up the recording. And it would be overkill to polish a cover song, recorded without permission from the respective rights owners. It was all for audition purposes.
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Dodj, I get your point.
But let me throw in my 2c worth.
2c.
Ako, when I first decided to put up a studio, there was a guiding vision to it and it was (and still is) "Make music with impunity". In a way, we Indie recording engineers have a charge. And that is to make some dreams of some people come true. I've already succeeded at least once (hey I've been on my own just this year). And the feeling of being part of the accomplishment of a dream is just...PRICELESS. It far transcends the puny money I make and the long hours I could have spent on other businesses. I'm losing money on my studio, not in terms of overhead as it shares the same space as my other endeavors, but in terms of opportunity cost. But that's me and of course I'm happy for the Indie studios that indeed turn out a profit.
In my experience, for instance, ALL if not ALL artists I've tracked required, to a greater or lesser degree, some form of correction. Specially vocals,
But hey, that's what we get paid for. To sprinkle our fairy dust and deliver some magic for our customers.
So while you do have a point, it's not totally fair to rely solely on the talent of an artist because everyone is imperfect, to a greater and lesser degree. That's where a recording engineer steps in.
One example. I recorded an acoustic album that had two tracks of violin on in. We all know how notoriously difficult a violin is to control and the artist, being as seasoned as she was, was out of tune in many points of the songs. Pulled out my pitch-correcting software and fixed that. Had I not done so, her violin sound would be akin to scratching a blackboard in some parts.
Another example. You do know Mohawk (sammy) right ? We did a fun track..one of his originals. Tracking was almost perfect. Sam played drums, bass and guitar almost perfectly...almost one take. He was the only one who knew the lyrics so I let him sing, that's where pandemonium broke loose. I told him "sige kanta lang" and let him sing notwithstanding that his pitch was all over the place. I even let him mix everything. Then when it was the vocal's turn, I made him sit aside and I went correcting the pitch. Now it's a fun tune to listen to.
So there. As my former bassist once told me, when I didnt have my own studio yet "The recording engineer is part of our band".
It might be a good paradigm to work with, although sa totoo lang, it can be emotionally taxing. But again, the rewards are ...PRICELESS.
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Gusto lang naman ipahiwatig dito na kahit hindi polished yung mix, yung performance pa rin may naidadagdag sa "listenability" ng mix.
I'm not a recording engineer but I totally agree with you..
I once had a band with a ok drummer. The band agreed to record a few songs. Come recording time, the drummer was all over the place in terms of tempo. Dang! I am a bassist and it was hard for me to keep time without clashing with the drum track. Called it a day, went home, created a drum sample in FL so the drummer has a reference during tracking. Viola!
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Jobet
i can relate to what you have done regarding fixing some recorded tracks. I have recorded a blues album and just finished it last month. On one song, i took the liberty of fixing not only the tune of the lead guitar but also moving it to suit the tempo of the music. Some songs with problematic bass lines and drum parts were also manipulated and all of these were done without the knowledge of the artist/composer/producer.. end result? he was so HAPPY with the product and so with the whole band that played on that album. He was even offered a contract to play nationwide and is contemplating on signing it.. 8-).. Can you imagine if the tracks weren't fixed? still we dont know but i can only guess it won't be as cohesive and as musical as the one i fixed. 8-)
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Wow! The sound samples pulled me back to the Junior Jam days!
Bad playing + Bad gear = Bad recording
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Wow! The sound samples pulled me back to the Junior Jam days!
Bad playing + Bad gear = Bad recording
The Junior Jam days were a lot worse. Frankly, I've seen the band who played Ana Molly live and they were pretty tight, except that there were some pitch problems in some areas. But overall, they can fair up, and can even exceed the talent of some famous acts now.
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but i thought Cry was the better one *lol* ... well, better in terms of recording, but vocal-wise, it was pretty bad.
ana molly wasnt in key either, but it wasnt as bad as cry... but then again, this is about recording quality.
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The mixing (actually I would hardly call it mixing) in this example was as such, because the artists didn't want to spend the extra time to clean up the recording.
Ok. Now that makes sense. It even makes more sense if they didn't have the moolah for the extra time to be used to polish the recording.
This is very crucial. When the engineer makes a decision without the producer or artist's permission. It is no different from deciding to use Drumagog behind the drummer's back or doing an autotune to a vocal without them knowing.
You're recording a demo not producing it for crying out loud! Like I said, an engineer's job is to get the sound as clean and intelligible as possible and as best sounding as possible. I understand the others' points that a crappy band will never produce stellar results but they can sound stellar by virtue of great recording gear and a great engineer. Yes, they can be out of tune and not be in sync but at least they should sound good. Just a bit of proper mic choices, placement, maybe a bit of outboard compression and EQ will make any band at least sound good. You don't need the artists permission for that, do you? I mean, we're talking about "What separates a good recording from a bad one" aren't we?
As engineers, I think our role is not to dictate "what sounds better", but rather, to be transparent about the artist's options. Actually, I've already encountered a vocalist who told me verbatim, "If I find out that you Autotune my voice, I'm gonna curse you forever..." So what if he had a pitch problem somewhere in the performance, and the deadline is tomorrow, and the vocalist already left the building? I hope you can relate.
I think as an engineer, your priority is to know "what sounds better" and make sure that's what's served up in every session! Do you honestly think that those bands went home that night/day with smiles on their faces because their audition tapes were rockin'? Fixing pitch problems and aligning waveforms are obviously post-recording endeavors. Those are the ones which require time and effort (and permission) that you didn't have the luxury of and is not my point.
And it would be overkill to polish a cover song, recorded without permission from the respective rights owners.
Who says you can't polish a cover song for audition purposes? It wasn't for public consumption was it?
It was all for audition purposes.
I sincerely hope they got the gig or whatever it was they were auditioning for cause it surely sounds like they gave it their all in their performance.
Allow me to quote BAMF for my parting words...
But hey, that's what we get paid for. To sprinkle our fairy dust and deliver some magic for our customers.
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Ok. Now that makes sense. It even makes more sense if they didn't have the moolah for the extra time to be used to polish the recording.
You're recording a demo not producing it for crying out loud! Like I said, an engineer's job is to get the sound as clean and intelligible as possible and as best sounding as possible. I understand the others' points that a crappy band will never produce stellar results but they can sound stellar by virtue of great recording gear and a great engineer. Yes, they can be out of tune and not be in sync but at least they should sound good. Just a bit of proper mic choices, placement, maybe a bit of outboard compression and EQ will make any band at least sound good. You don't need the artists permission for that, do you? I mean, we're talking about "What separates a good recording from a bad one" aren't we?
I think as an engineer, your priority is to know "what sounds better" and make sure that's what's served up in every session! Do you honestly think that those bands went home that night/day with smiles on their faces because their audition tapes were rockin'? Fixing pitch problems and aligning waveforms are obviously post-recording endeavors. Those are the ones which require time and effort (and permission) that you didn't have the luxury of and is not my point.
Who says you can't polish a cover song for audition purposes? It wasn't for public consumption was it?
I sincerely hope they got the gig or whatever it was they were auditioning for cause it surely sounds like they gave it their all in their performance.
Allow me to quote BAMF for my parting words...
Before anything, have you ever talked to the people behind 6Underground Live and Raw? They do live multi-track recording every single night. They have terrabytes of data stacked in their post prod room in Makati. You know what they told me? Out of 100 bands, maybe only 1 or 2 can stand out. Given all the equal conditions for each performer, how come a lowly 1-2% can stand out? Was it the equipment? Or the performance.
I know you're trying to point out the recording/production quality here. On the contrary, that is what I am trying to suspend in this argument. If I had maybe another 2 hours to set things up right from the get-go, and another 3 hours to clean up and mix, you'd have something much more pleasurable listening to. But then again, at the time, it would be overkill, at least for the artist. In this case, I stuck to the bare minimum requirement. If there is one thing sound engineers abroad have the pleasure doing is having enough time to set things up. And clean up in the post. Sa atin, GASTOS LANG YAN.
But when it is full-blown production, that is a different story. Moreso if I produce. Much more when I exec-prod.
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without listening to the sample tracks, i would already have to agree that tone is performance-dependent. i don't mean just the guitars. i mean everything just sounds better (all other factors being equal) coming from the hands of skilled musicians.
skilled musicians are able to not just perform complicated parts, but also exhibit a certain feel, and coax lovely sounds from their instruments. take the snare drum for example. believe it or not, the same snare with the same mic and recording setup can sound worlds apart depending on who is playing.
quote from alvincflorentino:
I think as an engineer, your priority is to know "what sounds better" and make sure that's what's served up in every session!
this i also agree with 100%. there is a basic way of setting things up, a starting point if you will. when the musicians are finally settled into their respective spots, that's when you move microphones around a bit, tweak amps or amp sims, etc. this should take just a bit of time (say 15-30) minutes. personally, i would rather hit the red button with a clean conscience :)
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Before anything, have you ever talked to the people behind 6Underground Live and Raw? They do live multi-track recording every single night. They have terrabytes of data stacked in their post prod room in Makati. You know what they told me? Out of 100 bands, maybe only 1 or 2 can stand out. Given all the equal conditions for each performer, how come a lowly 1-2% can stand out? Was it the equipment? Or the performance.
I know you're trying to point out the recording/production quality here. On the contrary, that is what I am trying to suspend in this argument. If I had maybe another 2 hours to set things up right from the get-go, and another 3 hours to clean up and mix, you'd have something much more pleasurable listening to. But then again, at the time, it would be overkill, at least for the artist. In this case, I stuck to the bare minimum requirement. If there is one thing sound engineers abroad have the pleasure doing is having enough time to set things up. And clean up in the post. Sa atin, GASTOS LANG YAN.
But when it is full-blown production, that is a different story. Moreso if I produce. Much more when I exec-prod.
Maybe I haven't recorded or even been in a studio that records hundreds of bands a week. But I did have the luxury of listening to these 2 recordings and this is my main argument. So now, we're not talking about the recording? Could have fooled me cause the main topic of this post is "What separates and good 'recording' from a bad one." If you had said "performance" or "band" then I may not have taken a second look at this post.
I think the two studios you mentioned--sorry but I have no idea--were not talking about recording quality but the songs and performances. Of course they recorded them as best as they could but only 1 to 2% will perform like Green Day or Maroon 5 (or whoever it is you fancy). This I can believe.
Allow me to quote (again) from someone else. This time, from starfugger,:
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quote from alvincflorentino:
I think as an engineer, your priority is to know "what sounds better" and make sure that's what's served up in every session!
this i also agree with 100%. there is a basic way of setting things up, a starting point if you will. when the musicians are finally settled into their respective spots, that's when you move microphones around a bit, tweak amps or amp sims, etc. this should take just a bit of time (say 15-30) minutes. personally, i would rather hit the red button with a clean conscience :)
Sorry but I just can't get myself to believe that those two recordings were from two different bands and, therefore, two different performances albeit "using the same setup" because they sound like they were recorded and treated very differently from each other. Forgive me but that's just to my newbie/amateur ears, of course.
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I tell you guys it's all about LOVE.
When the recording engineer hits the red button while in a state of LOVE, the recording comes out perfect.
But when a recording engineer feels grumpy, like say after eating some bad canned fish, then the recording comes out ugly, no matter how good the performance of the band members.
Nice theory, whatchathink ?
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Maybe I haven't recorded or even been in a studio that records hundreds of bands a week. But I did have the luxury of listening to these 2 recordings and this is my main argument. So now, we're not talking about the recording? Could have fooled me cause the main topic of this post is "What separates and good 'recording' from a bad one." If you had said "performance" or "band" then I may not have taken a second look at this post.
I think the two studios you mentioned--sorry but I have no idea--were not talking about recording quality but the songs and performances. Of course they recorded them as best as they could but only 1 to 2% will perform like Green Day or Maroon 5 (or whoever it is you fancy). This I can believe.
Allow me to quote (again) from someone else. This time, from starfugger,:
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Sorry but I just can't get myself to believe that those two recordings were from two different bands and, therefore, two different performances albeit "using the same setup" because they sound like they were recorded and treated very differently from each other. Forgive me but that's just to my newbie/amateur ears, of course.
personally, it isn't so hard to believe, since even different takes from the same band can have huge differences in tone and amplitude. sometimes i have to remind the bassist or drummer to take it easy during punch in's kasi mas "mainit" na yung tunog nila and therefore their new sound doesn't really match the initial live recording.
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But when a recording engineer feels grumpy, like say after eating some bad canned fish, then the recording comes out ugly, no matter how good the performance of the band members.
Nice theory, whatchathink ?
Definitely sardines.
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Pasali sa usapan...
In my own opinion, as most cases in recording, its all about purpose. Wheter the output is intended for personal use, for distribution in an album, for broadcast, for AVP, etc. One cannot totally blame the sound engineer if a product goes bad. In any recording project there has to be a producer. However as most cases in independent or self produced recordings, sometimes the sound engineer acts as the producer. And in most cases, the band has little idea of what is going on in the recording process. Kaya madalas, naoobliga pa ang sound engineer to do a little lecture just to make a good output. But in most cases the sound engineer doesnt know how the band wants their sound. Kaya minsan hula hula nalang.
My suggestion is to create education to bands regarding the whole recording process so that they will know what to do, or ask the bands to get a good engineer, talk about the recording project before actually walking into the studio. Kaya nagkakaroon ng madaming problema is because the band would expect miracles despite their little knowledge in the process. The engineer also expect something out of the band and gets lost when there is no one to guide him/her on the desired project. Parang pagluluto yan, kaya nga mix e. Alamin mo muna kung ano ang lulutuin mo. Para alam mo if you need sugar, salt or spice.
Hope this helps.
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I tell you guys it's all about LOVE.
When the recording engineer hits the red button while in a state of LOVE, the recording comes out perfect.
I quote this because this is lovely. hahaha!
Naimagine ko yung recording engineer na naka-allwhite at plantsadong buhok!
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Naimagine ko yung recording engineer na naka-allwhite at plantsadong buhok!
Ganyan dati sa EMI Studios when the Beatles were recording their first albums. All of the engineers were in white long coats - parang mga doktor; supposedly the recording studio is a lab. It has since changed. Maong at T-shirt na lang.
To chime in, for us at TRACKStudios, the main aim is to record the performance in the best possible manner. Therefore, the engineer can always suggest to the artists or producer on the best way to capture or record, but never take charge of the recording. If he believes that the acoustic guitar will sound better with ambient mics all over, so be it; he has to tell the producer. But not to the extent of suggesting that the song be done on D instead of C.
The main purpose of recording for us, is to capture the performance. Hence, it is a must that the recording process faithfully records the performance. If there are flats or sharps, these are to be corrected. What is the use of the multi-track for, if those mistakes are not given take twos. What is recorded or put on archive (record or CD) should be able to be reproduced faithfully live by the artist. Otherwise, people will feel shortchanged in the live performance if the recorded version is totally doctored. Kung baga, plakang-plaka and more dapat. I agree that pros do certainly sound better than beginners, and given the right kind of instruments (brand, condition and all - pros are suppose to be using pro instruments), the performance really shines. In all purposes, whether as a demo, CD release, personal use, etc., the performer is suppose to put in 100% performance level. And if there are problems, should revert first to the practice or rehearsal room to iron out all the kinks of the performance. When all is acceptable, then, he goes back into the recording studio (recording time wasted is money down the drain). In this respect, the engineer is to perform his best capturing the performance, for whatever purpose. It is inherent that the recording engineer puts in his 100% effort in getting the sound necessary for the performance.
My 2 cents.
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Ganyan dati sa EMI Studios when the Beatles were recording their first albums. All of the engineers were in white long coats - parang mga doktor; supposedly the recording studio is a lab. It has since changed. Maong at T-shirt na lang.
To chime in, for us at TRACKStudios, the main aim is to record the performance in the best possible manner. Therefore, the engineer can always suggest to the artists or producer on the best way to capture or record, but never take charge of the recording. If he believes that the acoustic guitar will sound better with ambient mics all over, so be it; he has to tell the producer. But not to the extent of suggesting that the song be done on D instead of C.
The main purpose of recording for us, is to capture the performance. Hence, it is a must that the recording process faithfully records the performance. If there are flats or sharps, these are to be corrected. What is the use of the multi-track for, if those mistakes are not given take twos. What is recorded or put on archive (record or CD) should be able to be reproduced faithfully live by the artist. Otherwise, people will feel shortchanged in the live performance if the recorded version is totally doctored. Kung baga, plakang-plaka and more dapat. I agree that pros do certainly sound better than beginners, and given the right kind of instruments (brand, condition and all - pros are suppose to be using pro instruments), the performance really shines. In all purposes, whether as a demo, CD release, personal use, etc., the performer is suppose to put in 100% performance level. And if there are problems, should revert first to the practice or rehearsal room to iron out all the kinks of the performance. When all is acceptable, then, he goes back into the recording studio (recording time wasted is money down the drain). In this respect, the engineer is to perform his best capturing the performance, for whatever purpose. It is inherent that the recording engineer puts in his 100% effort in getting the sound necessary for the performance.
My 2 cents.
I agree for the most part, but have a different paradigm, sir.
It's the 21st Century already and so much has changed. Back in the 70's-90's, to be a recording artist you really needed to be talented, otherwise you'll really have to spend so much time in the recording studio.
But in this age of DAW's, a single (or couple or even many) missed notes can be corrected. Ditto with off-hits on the drums and even the bass.
At the end of the day tho, it's still better for the artist to be highly polished. Di nga naman kasi, even if he doesn't need to re-track his errors, money not spent re-tracking will become money spent on correction. Sabagay, it all boils down to the same end, with the first scenario being that the artist becomes better if he puts his coins on practice and rehearsal rather than on fairy dust.
While I do espouse honing an artists skills, some fairy dust is nonetheless available should he fall short. And I believe, we should use it if the need arises.
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I tell you guys it's all about LOVE.
When the recording engineer hits the red button while in a state of LOVE, the recording comes out perfect.
But when a recording engineer feels grumpy, like say after eating some bad canned fish, then the recording comes out ugly, no matter how good the performance of the band members.
Nice theory, whatchathink ?
When you eat a bunch of rotten canned fish, you are not hapi este happy, because your Vest este best is not up to par.
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When you eat a bunch of rotten canned fish, you are not hapi este happy, because your Vest este best is not up to par.
kesa nanggaganyan ka, makinig ka kaya sa mga sinasabi sayo. andami na oh!
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Eh.
Aysee tom mga 7 pm onwards. Dumating kayo. Sama mo si Ms.Morales.
May official policy lang ang Philmusic about lam nyo na Blackbeard and Jack Sparrow.
Pero duon sa Aysee...wtf we can talk about it all we want. Team AiR saka H20 ba ? Hahehehe. Lalo na pag medyo lasheng na hehehe.
Basta...it's all about Love :-D
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I tell you guys it's all about LOVE.
When the recording engineer hits the red button while in a state of LOVE, the recording comes out perfect.
But when a recording engineer feels grumpy, like say after eating some bad canned fish, then the recording comes out ugly, no matter how good the performance of the band members.
Nice theory, whatchathink ?
I agree it's all about the LOVE, brotha'. And if you ain't got da love, en you ain't got da chops, den you ain't goin' get de bread, man...
Couldn't have said it any better, BAMF.
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I agree for the most part, but have a different paradigm, sir.
It's the 21st Century already and so much has changed. Back in the 70's-90's, to be a recording artist you really needed to be talented, otherwise you'll really have to spend so much time in the recording studio.
While I do espouse honing an artists skills, some fairy dust is nonetheless available should he fall short. And I believe, we should use it if the need arises.
I still believe that whether the 18th or 24th century, the artist's skills is still tops on the agenda. Nothing has really changed much. The process might be a little different because of digitalization - easier way of putting things into action or in changing, but the system is the same (they still put play, fast forward, rewind, etc even in commuter DAW programs because that is what people are accustomed to). This is much the same way as in photography, video and similar disciplines. But it is still the artist's skills that is bought and hailed here. Yes, there are fairy dusts available, but these are used only with utmost care and with consent. You can also classify the sound engineer as an artist because he puts in a certain worth of creativity in the entire process.
Yun lang siguro.
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bad playing with big budget = can still sound good
good playing with a tight budget = sounds at par
seasoned artist with big budget = sounds amazing
:?
MONEY MATTERS'
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I have a feeling that some people tend to underestimate the masses. Whenever you put out a very cleanly produced (or should I say OVERPRODUCED) album like Paris Hilton's, it is the tidiness of the album that gets subject to criticism.
For me, the magic that the audio engineer chooses NOT to do is just as important as the magic he chooses to do. (Or arguably, what the producer tells him to do). At the end of the day, it is all about knowing the bare minimum requirements of a project, and knowing when you are approaching "manufactured" status.
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kesa nanggaganyan ka, makinig ka kaya sa mga sinasabi sayo. andami na oh!
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
This is a public forum. Lahat dapat makinig sa isa't isa. Hindi lang ako ang nakikinig. Hindi nagsisiraan. Di kagaya ng iba kailangan pa ng clone para mangumpitensya.
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bad playing with big budget = can still sound good
good playing with a tight budget = sounds at par
seasoned artist with big budget = sounds amazing
:?
MONEY MATTERS'
Dude, while I'm inclined to agree on all points. Manny Pacquiao and Willie Revillame records always debunk that opinion. :-D
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This is a public forum. Lahat dapat makinig sa isa't isa. Hindi lang ako ang nakikinig. Hindi nagsisiraan. Di kagaya ng iba kailangan pa ng clone para mangumpitensya.
Huy! Let go na ! Aysee day na !
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Huy! Let go na ! Aysee day na !
Oo nga. SM Light drinker ako. Medyo nag-aalangan lang ako kasi kagabi nanaginip ako habang inaatras ko kotse ko may 3 mamang pumigil sa akin. "Holdap to!" Sabay binilisan ko atras tapos ayun... binaril ako 4 or 5 times tapos nagising ako sa gulat. :D
Naalala ko pa mukha nung gunman. Hindi naman ikaw BAMF. :D Hindi rin kahit sinong kakilala ko.
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tuloy ba?
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This is a public forum. Lahat dapat makinig sa isa't isa. Hindi lang ako ang nakikinig. Hindi nagsisiraan. Di kagaya ng iba kailangan pa ng clone para mangumpitensya.
Sinong nangumpitensya at kinumpitensya? sana malupit yung kinumpitensya para exciting basahin yung thread :-)
Anyway. may isang thread tungkol sa clone, alam ko yun, pero sa kumpitensya, wala akong nababasang ganon.
"kumpitensya." haha!
Listen to BAMF. let go.
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Sinong nangumpitensya at kinumpitensya? sana malupit yung kinumpitensya para exciting basahin yung thread :-)
Anyway. may isang thread tungkol sa clone, alam ko yun, pero sa kumpitensya, wala akong nababasang ganon.
kumpitensya. haha!
Listen to BAMF. let go.
Ah ok, I stand corrected. Di pala mangumpitensya pero manira. Wahahaha.
Now you know how hard it is to clean up someone else's mess when your partner is the one who's supposed to do that here.
There are two types of people who say sorry. First is the one who says he's sorry to bail himself out of a bad situation conveniently. The other is the one who says he's sorry with the effort to save his relationship with the person he mistreated, or tries to build/rebuild a better relationship with the one mistreated.
Ang sakit ng kalingkingan damdam ng buong katawan. That's why I never hired people to work in my studio. Even if I had two very willing gentlemen who worked as OJTers and they were very helpful.
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Ah ok, I stand corrected. Di pala mangumpitensya pero manira. Wahahaha.
Now you know how hard it is to clean up someone else's mess when your partner is the one who's supposed to do that here.
There are two types of people who say sorry. First is the one who says he's sorry to bail himself out of a bad situation conveniently. The other is the one who says he's sorry with the effort to save his relationship with the person he mistreated, or tries to build/rebuild a better relationship with the one mistreated.
Ang sakit ng kalingkingan damdam ng buong katawan. That's why I never hired people to work in my studio. Even if I had two very willing gentlemen who worked as OJTers and they were very helpful.
hindi ko kasi siya employee o OJTer. tropa. binail out ko sa jail dahil nahuling nagyoyosi sa jeep... mula nun, andito siya halos araw araw. Nagluluto, nagaassist sa siter ko, saakin. Yeah nahirapan ako sa paglilinis ng mess niya dito sa philmu, pero mas mahirap kung ilalaglag ko. May mga tropa ka din. alam mo yan.
ang ibig ko lang sabihin.... magAYSEE daw kayo mamaya!
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hindi ko kasi siya employee o OJTer. tropa. binail out ko sa jail dahil nahuling nagyoyosi sa jeep... mula nun, andito siya halos araw araw. Nagluluto, nagaassist sa siter ko, saakin. Yeah nahirapan ako sa paglilinis ng mess niya dito sa philmu, pero mas mahirap kung ilalaglag ko. May mga tropa ka din. alam mo yan.
ang ibig ko lang sabihin.... magAYSEE daw kayo mamaya!
Bakit kami lang?
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Bakit kami lang?
date. ano nalang sasabihin niya kapag nalaman niyang pinagpalit ko siya sa mga lalaking nameet ko sa internet? haha!
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date. ano nalang sasabihin niya kapag nalaman niyang pinagpalit ko siya sa mga lalaking nameet ko sa internet? haha!
Sa Aysee ka na lang makipag-date mura pa. :D
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hindi ko kasi siya employee o OJTer. tropa. binail out ko sa jail dahil nahuling nagyoyosi sa jeep... mula nun, andito siya halos araw araw. Nagluluto, nagaassist sa siter ko, saakin. Yeah nahirapan ako sa paglilinis ng mess niya dito sa philmu, pero mas mahirap kung ilalaglag ko. May mga tropa ka din. alam mo yan.
Actually mas mahirap nga pag ganyan, kasi pag business level lang ang responsibilidad mo sa isang tao, pag gumawa siya ng kalokohan in the line of duty, o kapag gumawa siya ng kasiraan sa business affiliations niya, madali mo lang siya matsugi sa trabaho.
Alam mo may kaibigan ako halos isang taon nakikitira sa bahay ng boss niya na may-ari ng computer shop na pinagtatrabahuhuan niya. Mabait yung may-ari kasi pastor, kaya kahit gustong-gusto na paalisin ng mga anak niya yung kaibigan ko sa bahay nila, di nila magawa. Palamunin pa, kasi minsan kulang pera niya. Pero nung nalamang nasasabit siya sa pagkawala ng ibang mga peripherals, ayun... babay. Siya yung kusang umalis...
Sorry OT na.
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Ganyan dati sa EMI Studios when the Beatles were recording their first albums. All of the engineers were in white long coats - parang mga doktor; supposedly the recording studio is a lab. It has since changed. Maong at T-shirt na lang.
To chime in, for us at TRACKStudios, the main aim is to record the performance in the best possible manner. Therefore, the engineer can always suggest to the artists or producer on the best way to capture or record, but never take charge of the recording. If he believes that the acoustic guitar will sound better with ambient mics all over, so be it; he has to tell the producer. But not to the extent of suggesting that the song be done on D instead of C.
The main purpose of recording for us, is to capture the performance. Hence, it is a must that the recording process faithfully records the performance. If there are flats or sharps, these are to be corrected. What is the use of the multi-track for, if those mistakes are not given take twos. What is recorded or put on archive (record or CD) should be able to be reproduced faithfully live by the artist. Otherwise, people will feel shortchanged in the live performance if the recorded version is totally doctored. Kung baga, plakang-plaka and more dapat. I agree that pros do certainly sound better than beginners, and given the right kind of instruments (brand, condition and all - pros are suppose to be using pro instruments), the performance really shines. In all purposes, whether as a demo, CD release, personal use, etc., the performer is suppose to put in 100% performance level. And if there are problems, should revert first to the practice or rehearsal room to iron out all the kinks of the performance. When all is acceptable, then, he goes back into the recording studio (recording time wasted is money down the drain). In this respect, the engineer is to perform his best capturing the performance, for whatever purpose. It is inherent that the recording engineer puts in his 100% effort in getting the sound necessary for the performance.
My 2 cents.
I agree with MikeP on this. As a corollary, I remember an interview with Steve Albini and at one point he mentioned that the dislikes the idea of someone interfering with an artists during recording, and he analogises it with "telling someone how to f**k his wife".
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I agree with MikeP on this. As a corollary, I remember an interview with Steve Albini and at one point he mentioned that the dislikes the idea of someone interfering with an artists during recording, and he analogises it with "telling someone how to f**k his wife".
Steve Albini is a god.
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Alam mo may kaibigan ako halos isang taon nakikitira sa bahay ng boss niya na may-ari ng computer shop na pinagtatrabahuhuan niya. Mabait yung may-ari kasi pastor, kaya kahit gustong-gusto na paalisin ng mga anak niya yung kaibigan ko sa bahay nila, di nila magawa. Palamunin pa, kasi minsan kulang pera niya. Pero nung nalamang nasasabit siya sa pagkawala ng ibang mga peripherals, ayun... babay. Siya yung kusang umalis...
Sorry OT na.
parang kilala ko ito ha...hmmm...
ganun ba yung nangyari noon?
medyo may pagkapichapie ba siya? :-D
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parang kilala ko ito ha...hmmm...
ganun ba yung nangyari noon?
medyo may pagkapichapie ba siya? :-D
Pichapie? Wahehehehe
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Oo nga. SM Light drinker ako. Medyo nag-aalangan lang ako kasi kagabi nanaginip ako habang inaatras ko kotse ko may 3 mamang pumigil sa akin. "Holdap to!" Sabay binilisan ko atras tapos ayun... binaril ako 4 or 5 times tapos nagising ako sa gulat. :D
Naalala ko pa mukha nung gunman. Hindi naman ikaw BAMF. :D Hindi rin kahit sinong kakilala ko.
K lang yun. For true Christians, death should be a welcome event. You'll be rejoining the Father. :-D. But in heaven there is no beer, only absynth...that's why we drink it here.