TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: peeves24 on December 06, 2009, 09:57:34 AM
-
if you have only 20k to invest in your first ever guitar-related item for recording, which path will you choose?
1. amp modeller for flexibility
2. real amp for authenticity
-
eventually, it would do you a lot of good to have both.
pros of an amp sim:
plug and play, well almost
relatively quiet :) no need to crank up a tube amp
versatile, you get a lot of sounds for less
tipid sa mics and preamps
pros of an amp:
tone
tone
tone
tone
tone
and did i mention tone?
-
I'll take amp modeller. For a budget of 20k, you can get a decent guitar software/plug in (like PODFarm, Guitar Rig etc).
Definiteley mas flexible, mas tipid, less setup.
-
It depends on how are you using it. Are you using it for gig or for recording.
And if you are using it for recording, do you have a booth or a decent space to boost your amp and record it without getting unnecessary noises like dog barks, motorcycle vrooms, etc.
From that you will know what you need. And get what you need.
-
i wish it was that simple :-D
im a tone freak (and i dont play guitar) and there's something about the feel of modellers that just dont sit right. modellers dont translate dynamics and distortion well...i wish i can afford an eleven rack.
i do prefer micing with a real amp but if i buy a real amp, my limited budget will only get me one entry-level-at-best amp. i'll have to wait another year before i can purchase another. i will be stuck and might get bored with the sound of my lonely amp.
-
i wish it was that simple :-D
im a tone freak (and i dont play guitar) and there's something about the feel of modellers that just dont sit right. modellers dont translate dynamics and distortion well...i wish i can afford an eleven rack.
i do prefer micing with a real amp but if i buy a real amp, my limited budget will only get me one entry-level-at-best amp. i'll have to wait another year before i can purchase another. i will be stuck and might get bored with the sound of my lonely amp.
on that issue, it might be true that modellers can't beat the "feel" of a real amp. still you have to look at it in the context of a mix. can one actually pick out a real amp vs an amp sim within a stereo mix? if not then it might be more economical to go with an amp sim.
however :-D
if you're set on getting an amp, second hand nalang para the 20k can take you a bit farther :)
but true, the guitar players you record might need a bunch of peds to vary the sound a little. you can build it up from there.
the eleven rack is GREAT with clean tone. may mga instances siguro na wala nang pinag iba yung amp and eleven rack from the perspective of tone. shempre iba siguro pakiramdam ng gitarista, although Sancho told me yesterday that it really does feel like paying through a real amp.
it's true amp sims find a bit of difficulty when it comes to distortion but the eleven rack does a very good job in that area too :) the mic selection is dead on ...
with that said, i would still use an amp whenever possible. call me old school.
there's a certain 3D-ness to a recorded amp sound ... probably the amp+room interaction ... call it vibe if you want, it just makes mixing a little easier ...
then again, hindi rin palagi. sometimes amp sims win over real amps
then again ...
... this monologue might go on for a while ...
-
i go for MODEL... If the guitarist want a real one, he should bring his own...
-
i go for MODEL... If the guitarist want a real one, he should bring his own...
exactly the answer im looking for...salamat!
-
from the perspective of the studio, it would be best to have lots of different amps to have options available for your clients, however, buying all the amps out there is NOT a feasible option so i'd agree with the preview poster about having the guitarist bring in their own amp for their own tone.
-
experience tells me the last thing they'd bring in is the amp :oops: some might even take it against you if you said you didn't have one (as if their tone weren't REALLY their responsibility). for certain almost all would bring in their own pedals.
-
Tsaka gusto ng guitarist na nagdala ng kanyang amp na DAPAT MALAKAS YUNG AMP para lumabas yung tamang tunog... i remember the man who brought his Fender TWIN reverb... gusto pa nya CONDENSER ang gamiting mic... 'yoko nga...
-
if you have only 20k to invest in your first ever guitar-related item for recording, which path will you choose?
1. amp modeller for flexibility
2. real amp for authenticity
Used for around that price:
(http://www.amptone.com/images/dg100212.gif)
-
experience tells me the last thing they'd bring in is the amp :oops: some might even take it against you if you said you didn't have one (as if their tone weren't REALLY their responsibility). for certain almost all would bring in their own pedals.
sucks. issues like this come up time and time again in guitar central where folks would rather spend money on pedals instead of the main components of tone: guitar + amp. the arguments just go on and on yet there are people firmly entrenched in the belief that a decent amp (mind you, not necessarily an expensive one) is not a necessity.
-
sucks. issues like this come up time and time again in guitar central where folks would rather spend money on pedals instead of the main components of tone: guitar + amp. the arguments just go on and on yet there are people firmly entrenched in the belief that a decent amp (mind you, not necessarily an expensive one) is not a necessity.
that's the thing mikey. most recording studio-worthy amps fall within a certain price range (unless one gets lucky in a thrift shop). i can't imagine how pedals can actually take one beyond the tonal limitations of an amp. i am of the belief that the DNA of one's tone is imprinted first and foremost within the guitar + amp (+ speaker) combination. (i hope guitar central peeps don't come over and crucify me for that, LOL)
-
would you interested in the NI Guitar Rig?
-
that's the thing mikey. most recording studio-worthy amps fall within a certain price range (unless one gets lucky in a thrift shop). i can't imagine how pedals can actually take one beyond the tonal limitations of an amp. i am of the belief that the DNA of one's tone is imprinted first and foremost within the guitar + amp (+ speaker) combination. (i hope guitar central peeps don't come over and crucify me for that, LOL)
they shouldn't because it IS the truth as much people want to argue about it. but you are right in bringing up the tough issue of price because a lot of these amps do cost cash, still, i would like to say that tech these days are becoming so affordable that many companies are releasing affordable versions of pricier amps (Ceriatone is a good example) that a compromise is not necessarily a bad thing. i don't think pedals can take anyone beyond an amp and if anyone who has done their share of playing can say, pedals are always just there to accentuate what you amp is already doing...it isn't supposed to completely replace it.
-
software modelers muna tsong, saka yung mejo mura lang coz mabilis ma-outdate ang software. Now, kung amp talaga, kahit isa lang kuha ka ng tube amp, kahit 5watts basta tube lang kabit na kabit sa recording. :mrgreen:
-
that's the thing mikey. most recording studio-worthy amps fall within a certain price range (unless one gets lucky in a thrift shop). i can't imagine how pedals can actually take one beyond the tonal limitations of an amp. i am of the belief that the DNA of one's tone is imprinted first and foremost within the guitar + amp (+ speaker) combination. (i hope guitar central peeps don't come over and crucify me for that, LOL)
YEHEY I'm not alone. ;)
-
software modelers muna tsong, saka yung mejo mura lang coz mabilis ma-outdate ang software. Now, kung amp talaga, kahit isa lang kuha ka ng tube amp, kahit 5watts basta tube lang kabit na kabit sa recording. :mrgreen:
line 6 pod xt pro ang binili ko. may reamp outputs kasi e para future-proofed na ko kung sakaling makabili na ng tunay na amp.
-
Meron ako nito and I'm currently using it live with a JSX amp and TripleX cab. Napatalsik sa studio dahil meron na akong Eleven Rack :-D.
Halos lahat ng guitar tones ko galing sa PODxt Pro (before Eleven came out). PODFarm din and some Guitar Rig Presets. Bass guitar tone ko til now is from the PODxt for Bass.
-
line 6 pod xt pro ang binili ko. may reamp outputs kasi e para future-proofed na ko kung sakaling makabili na ng tunay na amp.
congratulations. the line 6 pro xt is a serious tool that delivers :)
@skunk, haha, i wouldn't wander off in the gc forums though. LOL.
-
Re: real or model?
It's like making a choise between a "real" woman in your bed or watching "porn" in the computer...............hehehehehe :evil:
-
Pao you should have bought this:
(http://www.digitech.com/products/images/products/GSP1101.jpg) (http://www.digitech.com/products/multi-effects/GSP1101.php)
Mura pero mas maganda pa raw sa POD.
-
that's the thing mikey. most recording studio-worthy amps fall within a certain price range (unless one gets lucky in a thrift shop). i can't imagine how pedals can actually take one beyond the tonal limitations of an amp. i am of the belief that the DNA of one's tone is imprinted first and foremost within the guitar + amp (+ speaker) combination. (i hope guitar central peeps don't come over and crucify me for that, LOL)
I disagree. Tone is a composite of everything in the signal path, including the cables. Thus even if you had an uber-bowteek amp and plugged a sucky pedal like a Denio DS30 on it, your tone will still suck.
The "signal chain" is just that. It's just as strong as its weakest link.
-
Re: real or model?
It's like making a choise between a "real" woman in your bed or watching "porn" in the computer...............hehehehehe :evil:
CHOICE? REAL WOMAN or MALE WOOH MAN!!!
-
from the perspective of the studio, it would be best to have lots of different amps to have options available for your clients, however, buying all the amps out there is NOT a feasible option so i'd agree with the preview poster about having the guitarist bring in their own amp for their own tone.
I'm kinda fortunate that I can brew my own amps. The tack I'm taking right now is to make small Single-Ended 8 watt amps, all of different voicing. I got bit by the DIY bug again. I had a Transformer set wound for it and bought several tube sockets again.
First on my agenda is a VOX-voiced amp. I won't do Fender and Marshall anymore, I have full-sized versions of those already. Oh I don't know what's next after that (and the Dumble, and the Trainwreck). Any further suggestions ?
I think it's a great idea. Several heads and a couple of different cabs. The heads I've built so far sound great.
But that's me. If you had to buy an amp for each voicing, that would be very costly very soon. IN this respect, a modeller would be great.
-
Pao you should have bought this:
(http://www.digitech.com/products/images/products/GSP1101.jpg) (http://www.digitech.com/products/multi-effects/GSP1101.php)
Mura pero mas maganda pa raw sa POD.
i checked it out. di ako satisfied sa demos e kasi masyadong compressed yung tunog nya. almost bought the behringer vamp pro but had a change of heart, tutal one time ka lang bibili ng modeller e di yung podxt pro na.
-
i checked it out. di ako satisfied sa demos e kasi masyadong compressed yung tunog nya. almost bought the behringer vamp pro but had a change of heart, tutal one time ka lang bibili ng modeller e di yung podxt pro na.
Behringer V-Amp or XV-Amp ? Blechh...
I mean, Behringer has bright spots in its product line. This ain't one of them.
You can have mine. I'll sell it to you for 2k.
-
CHOICE? REAL WOMAN or MALE WOOH MAN!!!
I'm so ugly even my hand rejects me hahahaha !
-
Behringer V-Amp or XV-Amp ? Blechh...
I mean, Behringer has bright spots in its product line. This ain't one of them.
You can have mine. I'll sell it to you for 2k.
2K? ako na lang! Naghahanap ng efx yung isang gitarersta ko!!
-
CHOICE? REAL WOMAN or MALE WOOH MAN!!!
I'm so ugly even my hand rejects me hahahaha !
If you want to have a "strange affair" you might try to use your other hand ? :evil: :-D :-D :-D :-D
-
2K? ako na lang! Naghahanap ng efx yung isang gitarersta ko!!
Game ! Hahanapin ko lang kung saang butas ko naitago yung lintek na yun. Tapos igagawa muna kita ng AC adapter (9VAC ang kinakain nun). Sobrang digital bzzz bzzz bzzzzzzzz..... ni hindi na sya matulungan ng scalarizer.
-
Trainwreck gets my vote. I've heard one of those before and they really suit my fancy for versatility and character. Thing with Dumble-and this isn't saying that it sucks-is that everyone wants to do one of those.
If I may suggest something else as well - getting together a good design for a speaker sim that REALLY delivers would be an ideal product because tons of alternatives out there now just plain fail and I find that compromise is really the issue. Moreover, lots of people can actually use this. Is it really that tough to make one that doesn't suck all of the bass and character from your amp tone or are we all stuck with compromise? I find that if Suhr did it with the Badger (and I think they did a wonderful job with the Badger 18), it should be possible to make some standalone version of the unit for anyone. Currently, I haven't found a model that really blows me away.