Nice! So it's in the fingers talaga at hinde sa gear? :-)
yeah! pero mas maganda pagitarahin natin sina joe sat, steve vai gamit ang legendary denio dist tsaka metal worker dist tapos hot cabs and rage amps tapos sa huli nila rereveal mga gears nila. :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: yahoo! on February 05, 2011, 11:47:25 PM
yeah! pero mas maganda pagitarahin natin sina joe sat, steve vai gamit ang legendary denio dist tsaka metal worker dist tapos hot cabs and rage amps tapos sa huli nila rereveal mga gears nila. :lol:
That would be the shiznit! :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Puto on February 05, 2011, 11:55:37 PM
okz
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 06, 2011, 12:00:53 AM
Not really surprising for me. But that's only because I got to watch Jack White doing this in the opening of It Might Get Loud:
For the video posted by the TS, it's impressive but not profound. And it would've been nice to hear a clean sound on another amp because I think the Spider really did help a lot with the sound. We can marvel at it all we want, but how many of us can honestly say that we would go out and gig with such a thing unless we deliberately wanted to showcase it?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: shoegazer on February 06, 2011, 12:16:16 AM
Tone is subjective naman. I personally liked it tapos all-access pa yung neck, hehe. Pwedeng i-project 'to sa bakasyon! :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 06, 2011, 10:25:48 AM
oh another tone thread :lol:
maybe Great DIRTY tone isnt always's expensive
but who said great tone should be expensive? :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Rmansh on February 06, 2011, 10:45:18 AM
but who said great tone should be expensive? :lol:
i kno :-D
oi thanks for the file man, its wunderful :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 06, 2011, 10:45:32 AM
Not great tone to me. Sounds like any generic processed shredder tone from a Line 6. The great sounding tube amps that do metal with high gain (they cost money) do NOT sound as one dimensional and too compressed na nawawala na ang character ng gitara.
Also, he never tested the guitar on clean. Because on clean, you can hear if the guitar sounds lame -- lacking sustain, too bright or too bassy, one dimensional sounding (parang manipis), no resonance, no dynamic pick attack, etc. The guitars that are not lame sounding are actually built by people with years of experience with guitar building (they ALSO cost money).
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: teleclem on February 06, 2011, 10:50:26 AM
Not great tone to me. Sounds like any generic processed shredder tone from a Line 6. The great sounding tube amps that do metal with high gain (they cost money) do NOT sound as one dimensional and too compressed na nawawala na ang character ng gitara.
Also, he never tested the guitar on clean. Because on clean, you can hear if the guitar sounds lame -- lacking sustain, too bright or too bassy, one dimensional sounding (parang manipis), no resonance, no dynamic pick attack, etc. The guitars that are not lame sounding are actually built by people with years of experience with guitar building (they ALSO cost money).
This. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: shoegazer on February 06, 2011, 01:50:35 PM
just finished watching it might get loud lol twas inspiring to see jack white with crummy gear but still remain impressive.
He was stepping all over his plastic airline, pero ang lupet parin. Nothing wrong with a little/lots of dirt here and there and seems like it can pull off a little of The Black Keys, etc. BTW, nagdisband na nga pala yung The White Stripes. :(
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 06, 2011, 01:55:36 PM
Sige naway dito rin naman babagsak ito ilalatag kona ang very good example..
SEASICK STEVE..
The TONE IS IN THE HEART wala sa kahit ano pang instrumento, kung wala sa puso natin ang pagtugtug nito wala rin lahat balewala din kahit ano pang insrumento... hehehe opinyun ko lang naman ito :-)
Ganun lang kasimple yun. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Silaw on February 06, 2011, 02:18:50 PM
Not really surprising for me. But that's only because I got to watch Jack White doing this in the opening of It Might Get Loud:
For the video posted by the TS, it's impressive but not profound. And it would've been nice to hear a clean sound on another amp because I think the Spider really did help a lot with the sound. We can marvel at it all we want, but how many of us can honestly say that we would go out and gig with such a thing unless we deliberately wanted to showcase it?
i love this film. yun lang. didn't jack white say that he had a plastic-bodied guitar that he uses for gigs?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: cayle on February 06, 2011, 02:21:59 PM
hmm may piezo? hmm di kaya baka dinaan sa piezo preamp kaya ganun tumunog? :D nevertheless, amazing video pa rin :)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: jbarot on February 06, 2011, 03:32:34 PM
if he played a song on it instead of just riffing and noodling i can probably appreciate it more. minsan nakakarinde pag puro akyat baba lang. i need to hear groove
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: shoegazer on February 06, 2011, 04:19:45 PM
i love this film. yun lang. didn't jack white say that he had a plastic-bodied guitar that he uses for gigs?
(http://shop.myrareguitars.com/pictures/airline-guitars/thumbs/eastwood-airline-2p-dlx-electric-guitar-red.jpg) Airline (yes, it's plastic - or so they say) :D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mintzkie009 on February 06, 2011, 05:13:56 PM
i agree, hnd niya sinubukan mag clean sound. i'm 99% convinced, the rest 1% ay ang clean sound na hnd niya ginawa. if ever man na malinis talaga clean sound niya at walang sabit, maghahanap nlng ako ng lumang bangko para gumawa ng gitara. hehehe.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: teleclem on February 06, 2011, 06:10:28 PM
just finished watching it might get loud lol twas inspiring to see jack white with crummy gear but still remain impressive.
yeah. he has.. an interesting attitude, lalo na compared sa mga iba pa in the movie :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 06, 2011, 06:24:21 PM
i just made the header the title of the video itself. i didnt say that it was that great but i was shocked that it came from a plank of wood.
just sharing something i saw :)
not good but not that bad too :) yeah i know it doesn't have a swirl when you sustain like a thousand dollar guitar.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 06, 2011, 06:34:53 PM
Well, I think: 1. the guy is a great guitar player so that always helps optimize for better tone. i bet you i'll suck thru that guitar. LOL. 2. the tone was ok, not great, but ok. however, i've heard high end guitars played thru high end amps that sounded worse than that, both live and on record. 3. it only 'proves' my theory that with electric guitars, pickups/electronics are the most important factor, not the wood. The intro segment by Jack White on It Might Get Loud proved this too. if you wanna go electric, be prepared for the fact that wood, design, construction, and even setup will take a backseat to the pickups and electronics. if you wanna believe it's all about wood, you should play acoustic instead.
I bet nobody would have guessed the guitar if he didn't do the "reveal". Some people would have guess it was an Ibby or even more expensive guitar.
just finished watching it might get loud lol twas inspiring to see jack white with crummy gear but still remain impressive.
Loved the movie but hated how Jack White was featured in it. The movie is a guitar player's dream GAS-inducing documentary and there he is being a gear-Luddite, playing piano (WTF?! guitar nga e, GUITAR!!!), being weird and sh*t. He's a great musician and I love that we both love Son House and Delta blues but his affectations were very distracting. Eh mas bihis na bihis pa siya kay Jimmy Page (an Englishman at that!) and Edge (an Irish, so it goes w/o saying. LOL) eh! It's an act.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: teleclem on February 06, 2011, 06:43:29 PM
Loved the movie but hated how Jack White was featured in it. The movie is a guitar player's dream GAS-inducing documentary and there is being a gear-Luddite, playing piano (WTF?! guitar nga e, GUITAR!!!), being weird and sh*t. He's a great musician and I love that we both love Son House and Delta blues but his affectations were very distracting. Eh mas bihis na bihis pa siya kay Jimmy Page (an Englishman at that!) and Edge (an Irish, so it goes w/o saying. LOL).
I agree. He was too strong a personality in the movie.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: jbarot on February 06, 2011, 06:46:37 PM
3. it only 'proves' my theory that with electric guitars, pickups/electronics are the most important factor, not the wood. The intro segment by Jack White on It Might Get Loud proved this too. if you wanna go electric, be prepared for the fact that wood, design, construction, and even setup will take a backseat to the pickups and electronics. if you wanna believe it's all about wood, you should play acoustic instead.
amen!!! i just roll my eyes when players claim they can tell the diff between tonewoods in electric guitar, even with all that gain.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Silaw on February 06, 2011, 07:03:41 PM
Loved the movie but hated how Jack White was featured in it. The movie is a guitar player's dream GAS-inducing documentary and there is being a gear-Luddite, playing piano (WTF?! guitar nga e, GUITAR!!!), being weird and sh*t. He's a great musician and I love that we both love Son House and Delta blues but his affectations were very distracting. Eh mas bihis na bihis pa siya kay Jimmy Page (an Englishman at that!) and Edge (an Irish, so it goes w/o saying. LOL).
true. but then they were going for an eclectic mix - but not too eclectic. 3 generations, different styles, different perceptions. the gas part and the different-styles part would probably be better served by casting a young metal player instead, or even a sessionist, but i think the film's feel would be very different from what they were trying to achieve.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 07, 2011, 02:55:54 PM
Great! Very clever. But I think the guitar will be a little bit hard to play live especially standing-up just for the sole reason that the guitar doesn't bear your standard guitar body which means...no arm rest..haha! :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 07, 2011, 03:11:42 PM
3. it only 'proves' my theory that with electric guitars, pickups/electronics are the most important factor, not the wood. The intro segment by Jack White on It Might Get Loud proved this too. if you wanna go electric, be prepared for the fact that wood, design, construction, and even setup will take a backseat to the pickups and electronics. if you wanna believe it's all about wood, you should play acoustic instead.
definitely supported your theory! now i am enlightened. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: nathanmanansala on February 07, 2011, 03:21:23 PM
i'll say again: distortion is like wonder bra. makes everything more impressive than it actually is.
the guy's got chops though.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: xelalien on February 07, 2011, 04:36:43 PM
3. it only 'proves' my theory that with electric guitars, pickups/electronics are the most important factor, not the wood. The intro segment by
am starting to agree with this, matagal ko na ring bumabagabag sa utak ko, papano nakakakuha din ng magagandang tones yung mga non-wood bodied guitars (e.g. fiber glass), at ginagamit pa ng mga seasoned artists internationally...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: the count on February 07, 2011, 04:40:09 PM
The life and its character was manifested bec of it's good fretboard and of course good fret :) so it boils down to this - if your luthier can bestow the "best frets" and of course a stable fretboard then that means you're getting the "mojo"......
you know who's the man peeps... the "frets"
cheers! :)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 07, 2011, 08:08:46 PM
The life and its character was manifested bec of it's good fretboard and of course good fret :) so it boils down to this - if your luthier can bestow the "best frets" and of course a stable fretboard then that means you're getting the "mojo"......
you know who's the man peeps... the "frets"
cheers! :)
A big NO NO!
its the" HIYAW THAT'S COUNTS :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 07, 2011, 10:05:07 PM
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 07, 2011, 11:07:36 PM
just a slight addendum to what i posted above:
for me, this will still not change my stand that putting boutique pickups on a cheap guitar is not ok. but this is purely my opinion being a cheapskate and practical guy. i would never buy pickups that will cost more than the guitar. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 07, 2011, 11:11:45 PM
for me, this will still not change my stand that putting boutique pickups on a cheap guitar is not ok. but this is purely my opinion being a cheapskate and practical guy. i would never buy pickups that will cost more than the guitar. :-)
i would never buy GUITAR that will cost more than "MY TALENT". :-) nyahahahhahah
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 07, 2011, 11:19:04 PM
i would never buy GUITAR that will cost more than "MY TALENT". :-) nyahahahhahah
(turns in to youtube to watch the epic video again hahaha )
+1 :)) bro may i ask who won the famous duel if you know what i mean :> :> :> kahit pm lang hahaha
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: los on February 08, 2011, 12:21:53 AM
its a digital signal from the line 6 amp. those tiny boogers can emulate moster tube amps.. still nice though.... i wonder how it will sound on clean tone.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: teleclem on February 08, 2011, 12:39:19 AM
am starting to agree with this, matagal ko na ring bumabagabag sa utak ko, papano nakakakuha din ng magagandang tones yung mga non-wood bodied guitars (e.g. fiber glass), at ginagamit pa ng mga seasoned artists internationally...
Ang bangis nung link sa signature! :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 08, 2011, 08:35:37 AM
iMHO, if you can afford it, it's best to buy gear "above" your talent, in fact, the best that you can afford. Otherwise, you are short changing yourself. Better gear can inspire you to persevere and motivate you by making it easy to play and sounding good.
Again, that's only if a person has a choice. If he can't afford it, that's a different matter. But even the old bluesmen bought the best guitars the moment they got enough cash.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: zero44 on February 08, 2011, 08:43:46 AM
sarap siguro ipang gig nito..
may instant baseball bat kana kagad.. hahaha!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 08, 2011, 04:59:03 PM
iMHO, if you can afford it, it's best to buy gear "above" your talent, in fact, the best that you can afford. Otherwise, you are short changing yourself. Better gear can inspire you to persevere and motivate you by making it easy to play and sounding good.
Again, that's only if a person has a choice. If he can't afford it, that's a different matter. But even the old bluesmen bought the best guitars the moment they got enough cash.
Yup yup! PANGINOON ,, but, alam mo naman kung para kanino yung sinabi ko hehehehe :lol:
'THE TONE IS " HIYAW" ! :lol:.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: rocker4ever on February 08, 2011, 10:10:24 PM
ako kahit mamahaling gitara diko magagawa yung ganon.....
sabi nga nila wala sa PANA yan....
nasa INDIAN...... :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: teleclem on February 08, 2011, 11:07:11 PM
iMHO, if you can afford it, it's best to buy gear "above" your talent, in fact, the best that you can afford. Otherwise, you are short changing yourself. Better gear can inspire you to persevere and motivate you by making it easy to play and sounding good.
I really agree with that. Good gear can indirectly improve your playing through inspiration, motivation, and such. Plus, I don't really know how to quantify talent. Do I have to play stadiums every night in order to buy a nice Les Paul?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 09, 2011, 09:45:52 AM
Yup yup! PANGINOON ,, but, alam mo naman kung para kanino yung sinabi ko hehehehe :lol:
'THE TONE IS " HIYAW" ! :lol:.
well, it's hard to quantify talent anyway as teleclem says above. but, everyone deserves any gear that they can afford, don't you agree? issue lang naman dun is pag minamaliit ang ibang gear just because they are cheaper.
well, it's hard to quantify talent anyway as teleclem says above. but, everyone deserves any gear that they can afford, don't you agree? issue lang naman dun is pag minamaliit ang ibang gear just because they are cheaper.
agree to this.
but my personal rule is to get an instrument that is consistent with my skill level. i'll only buy an expensive guitar if i think my skills can do the guitar justice. kaya mas mahal yung mga acoustics ko kesa sa electric kasi mas matagal na akong acoustic player and i feel i can play acoustic better than electric. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 09, 2011, 04:08:48 PM
well, it's hard to quantify talent anyway as teleclem says above. but, everyone deserves any gear that they can afford, don't you agree? issue lang naman dun is pag minamaliit ang ibang gear just because they are cheaper.
as teleclem said:
I agree :-) AMEN sayo fapi at PAKISS pa! :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 09, 2011, 07:10:34 PM
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: obetski on February 09, 2011, 10:52:25 PM
great players get more gigs and earn more money, they will have more dough to buy better gear and make them sound even better, not really play better, cos great players are great even with mediocre equipment.. ganun lang yun
btw, I didnt even find the tone on the video great,, it's NOT great, it was surprisingly ok, we dont expect that wood to sound like that, the sustain suck and the sound thin out in a split second, notice the player wiggle the strings so hard just to prolong the sound
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 09, 2011, 11:35:26 PM
great players get more gigs and earn more money, they will have more dough to buy better gear and make them sound even better, not really play better, cos great players are great even with mediocre equipment.. ganun lang yun
btw, I didnt even find the tone on the video great,, it's NOT great, it was surprisingly ok, we dont expect that wood to sound like that, the sustain suck and the sound thin out in a split second, notice the player wiggle the strings so hard just to prolong the sound
agree, but it is OKAY. so if you have a plywood guitar, its better than the guitar on the vid. much better if you have a non ply guitar. so be happy. you can still have good tone, and make great music.
good music is a combination of good tone, good composition, and a good instrumentalist and vocalist. (imo)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 10, 2011, 04:42:02 PM
heheh ang dami ninyong nararamdaman :lol: :lol: tumugtug nalang ng tumugtug ..tapos ang kwentuhan :lol:
PERIOD.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: the count on February 10, 2011, 04:43:07 PM
Dude I feel you'll get even more "constipated" when you have your gear refretted by someone who claim to do it in "2" hours... gusto mo bang mag bend sa fret "mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo" hehehe... na try konang mag pa refret sa sablay... at sablay talaga.
buti nalang dinalako muna sa isa pang "Ok" na luthier...
then finally binalik ko sa "original master" buti hindi nakahalata.... and yun bumalik ang "mojo" hehe
peace
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 10, 2011, 08:09:50 PM
Dude I feel you'll get even more "constipated" when you have your gear refretted by someone who claim to do it in "2" hours... gusto mo bang mag bend sa fret "mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo" hehehe... na try konang mag pa refret sa sablay... at sablay talaga.
buti nalang dinalako muna sa isa pang "Ok" na luthier...
then finally binalik ko sa "original master" buti hindi nakahalata.... and yun bumalik ang "mojo" hehe
peace
Ganun ba? share naman diyan kung sino yang luthier nayan na nag re-pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppprefret na parang lata ng sardinas :lol: hindi kaba inipis pagkatapos mong gamitin yung guitar mo? nyahahahah :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 10, 2011, 08:41:05 PM
Dude I feel you'll get even more "constipated" when you have your gear refretted by someone who claim to do it in "2" hours... gusto mo bang mag bend sa fret "mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo" hehehe... na try konang mag pa refret sa sablay... at sablay talaga.
buti nalang dinalako muna sa isa pang "Ok" na luthier...
then finally binalik ko sa "original master" buti hindi nakahalata.... and yun bumalik ang "mojo" hehe
peace
hey bro, can you PM me this luthier you are talking about? thanks!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 10, 2011, 09:01:46 PM
hey bro, can you PM me this luthier you are talking about? thanks!
pass the message!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitargodskitz on February 10, 2011, 09:21:24 PM
nice find, similar idea with Yarden's guitar (former guitarist of KNK) di maarte pero pwede i like the tone (go easy on me tone freaks) and its a great guitar to easily get noticed too hehehe
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: teleclem on February 10, 2011, 10:27:54 PM
haha! di naman. just want to get as much feedback as i can about them luthiers so that i won't commit the same mistake. i'm eyeing to have some jobs done to both my electric and acoustic and i'm planning to bring them to just one person. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: KASALANAN on February 11, 2011, 05:01:36 PM
iMHO, if you can afford it, it's best to buy gear "above" your talent, in fact, the best that you can afford. Otherwise, you are short changing yourself. Better gear can inspire you to persevere and motivate you by making it easy to play and sounding good.
Again, that's only if a person has a choice. If he can't afford it, that's a different matter. But even the old bluesmen bought the best guitars the moment they got enough cash.
True. For me, it's about doing what you can to improve--which includes better setup and gear. In my case, since I don't have the luxury of acquiring expensive gear (yet), I tweak and experiment on setups that best suits my playing style.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 11, 2011, 09:43:54 PM
bat hindi pa ibunyag?
kung hindi maganda ang gawa niya mabuting malaman ng iba, para hindi na masayangan ng pera.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: jamesplaysguitar on February 11, 2011, 09:54:28 PM
Like Dave Weiner said ( guitarist of steve vai ) Tone is in the head not in the equipment even guitar. He shared a thought that one time in a practice or demo by steve vai. Steve uses a squier (china made i think) and a small pignose amp and with a cheap setup he still sounded like steve vai. Amazing? I dont think so. Steve vai is focused only in one tone in his head. So if you give him any kind of equipment or setup. he can still sound like himself without any problems. Its a good thought actually and makes real good sense.
Kaya isip isip.. hehe :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 11, 2011, 10:44:22 PM
It's a school of thought that, while many people would not be wrong if they subscribed to it, is no more valid than the other(s). After all, if that were the absolute truth, why does Steve Vai cling to a core set of guitars and amps, no? These schools of thought regarding tone sadly tend to be misguided to certain degrees, thanks in part to quotes from big name artists.
Let's not kid ourselves. It's not just about sounding decent. It's also about feeling good physically, mentally, emotionally, and dare I say, spiritually with what you got within reach. And that is where high quality gear really helps. I seriously doubt that makeshift guitar body in the video will cut it for anybody (the dude in the video included) once the novelty of the concept fades.
To put what I just wrote into context. Yes, great tone isn't always expensive. But while I have to give props to the dude in the video for the effort, the tone in the video was anything but. All of us know that something is wrong when people say that a sound buried in distortion from a cheap Line 6 amp is actually an improvement.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 12, 2011, 03:13:59 AM
Let's not kid ourselves. It's not just about sounding decent. It's also about feeling good physically, mentally, emotionally, and dare I say, spiritually with what you got within reach.
i like!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: teleclem on February 12, 2011, 10:31:14 AM
kung hindi maganda ang gawa niya mabuting malaman ng iba, para hindi na masayangan ng pera.
Tama. Mahirap na pag may mangyari sa guitars natin.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: arkeetar on February 12, 2011, 12:46:45 PM
dun ako sa sounds good, looks good :-D yum!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 12, 2011, 12:52:21 PM
Tama na ito!!!! pagusapan nalang natin P.U.A :-D :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: the count on February 12, 2011, 01:27:23 PM
Okay peeps alam ko makakasakit ng onti tong message ko but I'm doing this to warn and at the same time to effect some changes.
I. I got my strat from GH for the ff works: thin skin nitro paint, and some fret dress... unfortunately may "minimal buzz" which I think i cannot tolerate. So I called GH and they suggested to bring it back for a warranty (of course free of charge)... now since alam ko na medyo matagal sa GH i tried to call Elegee and the man suggested a "fret dress and set up" so okay I went there... sabi ko gaano katagal sabi: hours lang daw :) so sabi ko go...
II. so yun pinagawa ko na guitar ko... then since afternoon na yun kinabukasan kona na claim... and the result: Oh damn magaspang na fret na mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo... mixed emotions ako nun and I dunno if I will say thanks or what? as I have to evaluate it sa house nalng after testing it... ang sobrang sablay talaga dahil "nawala yung magic" and parang kinaskas ng paper deliha (sand paper) yung frets... nawala yung chime and yung kintab...
III. so nahiya ako dalhin sa GH dahil sobrang mahahalata... so I called JUN CASTRO... all I can say is that Jun is really a sincere man with an oozing spirituality and an energetic persona... so I have it fret dressed again - the result was OK - makintab yung frets, makinis, and 70% of the "mojo" got back... kaso I noticed na hindi ata for "jumbo fret" yung crowning tool na ginamit nia (I could be wrong)... but it was ok....
IV. then I decided to call GH and meet the original master... sabi nia sa Phone: kuha ka ng papel and ilista mo lahat yung gusto mong mangyari : so eto sabi ko - :ultra low action without the buzz, and improvement on the fret...
V. so then while at GH... Arie explained a lot of things focusing on the variables of guitar like the "unknown stability of woods esp the neck which only time can predict" the uniqueness of guitar that each guitar has its own tone... and all the "possibilities that can be done sa guitar".... *which is limitless (if you like its tone then push through the mods)
VI. so then he suggested "compounding of radius" and straightening of the neck to allow very low action - he even warn me that at very low action some of the tones might be lost. sabi ko "sir okay lang basta enjoy ako sa pag play"
VII. so yun I got my gear "and ang masabi ko" malayo palang kita mona na "kumikinang yung frets"... then I did the final tweaking like "intonation and final set-up" (I think all should learn the very basic level regarding this)
PS: BTW the contents of this post was the most Important regarding all of what happened - there are insignificant stuffs in between that I deliberately remove.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Rmansh on February 12, 2011, 02:08:27 PM
^thanks for sharing,
well thats sad, all of them didn't get it right lols, and sayang punta mo sa 2 luthier since the original luthier was able to fix your problem. did you visit them on their non-peak days? yun konti lang tao?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 12, 2011, 02:53:16 PM
kaya kay REY VARGAS na lang kayo magpa set up at fret dress haha :) sure na walang karumaldumal na mangyayare.
pero count. . . mejo nakakagulat ang ni reveal mo pare. make sure to back it up kase issue to.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 12, 2011, 03:14:56 PM
@the Count
you went to three different guys? btw what guitar you have?
Quote
... and the result: Oh damn magaspang na fret na mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo...
and this is seriously funny!!, but i feel what you feel..especially when you're raking(bending) into those 'burred' out frets
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 12, 2011, 07:36:40 PM
hmm, ive gone to elegee for a refret and it turns out real good..
jun castro for fret dress, it became shiny and real smooth..
been to GH for other stuff, nothing about frets so i cannot comment..
ILL BRING MY STRAT TO MICSIS SOON.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on February 12, 2011, 09:28:14 PM
Okay peeps alam ko makakasakit ng onti tong message ko but I'm doing this to warn and at the same time to effect some changes.
I. I got my strat from GH for the ff works: thin skin nitro paint, and some fret dress... unfortunately may "minimal buzz" which I think i cannot tolerate. So I called GH and they suggested to bring it back for a warranty (of course free of charge)... now since alam ko na medyo matagal sa GH i tried to call Elegee and the man suggested a "fret dress and set up" so okay I went there... sabi ko gaano katagal sabi: hours lang daw :) so sabi ko go...
II. so yun pinagawa ko na guitar ko... then since afternoon na yun kinabukasan kona na claim... and the result: Oh damn magaspang na fret na mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo... mixed emotions ako nun and I dunno if I will say thanks or what? as I have to evaluate it sa house nalng after testing it... ang sobrang sablay talaga dahil "nawala yung magic" and parang kinaskas ng paper deliha (sand paper) yung frets... nawala yung chime and yung kintab...
III. so nahiya ako dalhin sa GH dahil sobrang mahahalata... so I called JUN CASTRO... all I can say is that Jun is really a sincere man with an oozing spirituality and an energetic persona... so I have it fret dressed again - the result was OK - makintab yung frets, makinis, and 70% of the "mojo" got back... kaso I noticed na hindi ata for "jumbo fret" yung crowning tool na ginamit nia (I could be wrong)... but it was ok....
IV. then I decided to call GH and meet the original master... sabi nia sa Phone: kuha ka ng papel and ilista mo lahat yung gusto mong mangyari : so eto sabi ko - :ultra low action without the buzz, and improvement on the fret...
V. so then while at GH... Arie explained a lot of things focusing on the variables of guitar like the "unknown stability of woods esp the neck which only time can predict" the uniqueness of guitar that each guitar has its own tone... and all the "possibilities that can be done sa guitar".... *which is limitless (if you like its tone then push through the mods)
VI. so then he suggested "compounding of radius" and straightening of the neck to allow very low action - he even warn me that at very low action some of the tones might be lost. sabi ko "sir okay lang basta enjoy ako sa pag play"
VII. so yun I got my gear "and ang masabi ko" malayo palang kita mona na "kumikinang yung frets"... then I did the final tweaking like "intonation and final set-up" (I think all should learn the very basic level regarding this)
PS: BTW the contents of this post was the most Important regarding all of what happened - there are insignificant stuffs in between that I deliberately remove.
I feel you bro...I had a similar experience when I decided to have my entry level guitar upgraded, the result was not as I expected siguro dahil na rin sa nagmamadali ako...in general, sa palagay ko sa mga ganitong trabaho dapat realistic na time table ang ibigay nila sa cliente (kahit nagmamadali ang cliente) para maganda ang quality ng trabaho kasi konting dissatisfaction ng cliente apektado na agad ang reputation nila...tsaka i-treat all clients the same kilala, di kilala, experienced or in-experienced, kasi minsan kapag di kilala or newbie yung cliente parang "pwede na yan" attitude yung pinaiiral.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: jamesplaysguitar on February 13, 2011, 12:54:09 AM
It's a school of thought that, while many people would not be wrong if they subscribed to it, is no more valid than the other(s). After all, if that were the absolute truth, why does Steve Vai cling to a core set of guitars and amps, no? These schools of thought regarding tone sadly tend to be misguided to certain degrees, thanks in part to quotes from big name artists.
Ok sir. Thanks for the thought. Im not saying im correct or anything. Its just an opinion im trying to address because i believe in it and im not justifying its the absolute truth because its things are always different in every situation.Tone is not expensive. Tone is in the head and the thought is very general. If you don't have a good tone in your head and find in others good tone you feel frustrated and will believe that expensive gear is good tone. Because you have a piece of crap gear. Rather than concentrating on playing guitar and enjoying physically mentally, emotionally and spiritually. For what steve vai showed good tone is its not in the equipment its in your head. Its just in the sense that Steve Vai needs a big big amp for big hall concerts, sponsors/product promotions for ibanez and with all his gear that works good for him and most especially he got the money and he's in the U.S. He can't play a practice amp and a cheap o'l squier in front of thousands of fans in a big hall. because he is in a situation where he needs his big expensive gear because that works for him in that environment and he can buy stuff.
Other than this is the Philippines and budget is always an issue.For us local musicians this is a big issue. But this is a big problem because the information big foreign artists (which some or most of us are trying to imitate) fed us with this kind of perspective that good tone is expensive because of the expensive gear they have. But again that is the U.S, their currency and salaries are bigger than what we use to have in the end of the month, even a U.S college student can buy 2 stacks of marshalls and dozens of gibsons without any problems. But here struggling amateur to semi pro musicians have low budgets and have cheap squiers and imitations etc. If they are fed with the idea that when you have a 100,000 peso worth of guitar and amp ( which I'am exaggerating ) and your guitar hero's uses those expensive setups, you can have the best tone possible. That is a myth that we, some or most musicians suffer. That's why we keep selling our equipment because its low end cheap and we cant find a good tone with it and becomes frustrated in time when bills become a problem you cant buy gear anymore. The hunt for a good tone is a myth when the answer in dave's opinion is good tone is in the head. Steve vai showed that to dave to make him also realize something and tell the world about it. If you have a cheap guitar and a cheap amp then have fun playing with it and find your own tone i think that makes a guitar hero.
just my opinion and i have nothing against anyone just a freedom of speech actually and not a form of debate. If you disagree its ok. If you agree its also ok. If you don't reply its also ok :-D and oh yeah i forgot i'm not much of a steve vai or dave weiner fan. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 13, 2011, 09:55:17 AM
Ok sir. Thanks for the thought. Im not saying im correct or anything. Its just an opinion im trying to address because i believe in it and im not justifying its the absolute truth because its things are always different in every situation.Tone is not expensive. Tone is in the head and the thought is very general. If you don't have a good tone in your head and find in others good tone you feel frustrated and will believe that expensive gear is good tone. Because you have a piece of crap gear. Rather than concentrating on playing guitar and enjoying physically mentally, emotionally and spiritually. For what steve vai showed good tone is its not in the equipment its in your head. Its just in the sense that Steve Vai needs a big big amp for big hall concerts, sponsors/product promotions for ibanez and with all his gear that works good for him and most especially he got the money and he's in the U.S. He can't play a practice amp and a cheap o'l squier in front of thousands of fans in a big hall. because he is in a situation where he needs his big expensive gear because that works for him in that environment and he can buy stuff.
Other than this is the Philippines and budget is always an issue.For us local musicians this is a big issue. But this is a big problem because the information big foreign artists (which some or most of us are trying to imitate) fed us with this kind of perspective that good tone is expensive because of the expensive gear they have. But again that is the U.S, their currency and salaries are bigger than what we use to have in the end of the month, even a U.S college student can buy 2 stacks of marshalls and dozens of gibsons without any problems. But here struggling amateur to semi pro musicians have low budgets and have cheap squiers and imitations etc. If they are fed with the idea that when you have a 100,000 peso worth of guitar and amp ( which I'am exaggerating ) and your guitar hero's uses those expensive setups, you can have the best tone possible. That is a myth that we, some or most musicians suffer. That's why we keep selling our equipment because its low end cheap and we cant find a good tone with it and becomes frustrated in time when bills become a problem you cant buy gear anymore. The hunt for a good tone is a myth when the answer in dave's opinion is good tone is in the head. Steve vai showed that to dave to make him also realize something and tell the world about it. If you have a cheap guitar and a cheap amp then have fun playing with it and find your own tone i think that makes a guitar hero.
just my opinion and i have nothing against anyone just a freedom of speech actually and not a form of debate. If you disagree its ok. If you agree its also ok. If you don't reply its also ok :-D and oh yeah i forgot i'm not much of a steve vai or dave weiner fan. :-)
Just my opinion: It is true that tone is in the head but for that tone to get into your head, you have to HEAR IT FIRST. Over the years, as I spent money on my boutique guitars, effects and amps -- the minimum standard gets into your head. What I mean by this is that the bar on sound quality and character whether consciously or subconsciously has gone up for me. As a result, ANY guitar equipment and I mean ANYTHING sold by Audiophile, Perfect Pitch, Lazer,RJ, etc. sounds horrible to me. So how do I know this? Simple they all sound so bad to what I have at home that it makes me want to run out of these stores. My Ears cannot stand how they sound. After 5 minutes, there is fatigue in the ears. By the way, for those people and musicians who really know, there is no spirituality unless you have an expressive guitar and good sounding equipment -- it just comes first prior to inspiration. Oh, Steve Vai has tons of guitars more expensive than his stage Ibanez guitars. He also has practice amps that are more expensive than his stage amps so don't restrict Steve Vai to what you see him play on stage.
The only reason that Filipinos in general cannot afford good sounding equipment is because we cannot earn enough. Period. There is no conspiracy between the American artist and American equipment producing companies against the Filipinos -- they even promote more affordable equipment than boutique manufacturers. Because you know why? THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT US. In the same way that you don't care about what the ordinary American buys, they don't care about what we buy because we are a small market with limited buying/purchasing power. In my opinion, to really get into the ballpark world class tone, you really need about P200-P300k spent on boutique amps, guitars, effects, cables, etc. Anything lower is average. What Steve Vai does not tell you is that he has tons of boutique equipment at home that he uses to get that tone in the head. To quote a famous musician from the Steve Vai band, "I think Steve sounded better thru the Bogners than the Carvin's which just sound like [gooey brown stuff]." Now, I don't know about you, but I guess band members of the Steve Vai band have better 'ears' than us and have actually been with Steve for some time to know what Steve sounds like into good sounding equipment and bad sounding equipment. As much as good tone is in the head, I hope that people don't abuse the phrase to justify their cheap bad sounding gear. After all, if all you heard your life is bad sounding guitars and amps, I am afraid to hear whats in your head. To them, I quote the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland, "Off with their HEADS!".
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 13, 2011, 04:09:16 PM
sample!, sample!, sample! sample,!
PLAY! PLAY! PLAY! PLAY! PLAY!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ioffendpeople on February 13, 2011, 04:47:53 PM
Just my opinion: It is true that tone is in the head but for that tone to get into your head, you have to HEAR IT FIRST. Over the years, as I spent money on my boutique guitars, effects and amps -- the minimum standard gets into your head. What I mean by this is that the bar on sound quality and character whether consciously or subconsciously has gone up for me. As a result, ANY guitar equipment and I mean ANYTHING sold by Audiophile, Perfect Pitch, Lazer,RJ, etc. sounds horrible to me. So how do I know this? Simple they all sound so bad to what I have at home that it makes me want to run out of these stores. My Ears cannot stand how they sound. After 5 minutes, there is fatigue in the ears. By the way, for those people and musicians who really know, there is no spirituality unless you have an expressive guitar and good sounding equipment -- it just comes first prior to inspiration. Oh, Steve Vai has tons of guitars more expensive than his stage Ibanez guitars. He also has practice amps that are more expensive than his stage amps so don't restrict Steve Vai to what you see him play on stage.
The only reason that Filipinos in general cannot afford good sounding equipment is because we cannot earn enough. Period. There is no conspiracy between the American artist and American equipment producing companies against the Filipinos -- they even promote more affordable equipment than boutique manufacturers. Because you know why? THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT US. In the same way that you don't care about what the ordinary American buys, they don't care about what we buy because we are a small market with limited buying/purchasing power. In my opinion, to really get into the ballpark world class tone, you really need about P200-P300k spent on boutique amps, guitars, effects, cables, etc. Anything lower is average. What Steve Vai does not tell you is that he has tons of boutique equipment at home that he uses to get that tone in the head. To quote a famous musician from the Steve Vai band, "I think Steve sounded better thru the Bogners than the Carvin's which just sound like [gooey brown stuff]." Now, I don't know about you, but I guess band members of the Steve Vai band have better 'ears' than us and have actually been with Steve for some time to know what Steve sounds like into good sounding equipment and bad sounding equipment. As much as good tone is in the head, I hope that people don't abuse the phrase to justify their cheap bad sounding gear. After all, if all you heard your life is bad sounding guitars and amps, I am afraid to hear whats in your head. To them, I quote the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland, "Off with their HEADS!".
Okay peeps alam ko makakasakit ng onti tong message ko but I'm doing this to warn and at the same time to effect some changes.
I. I got my strat from GH for the ff works: thin skin nitro paint, and some fret dress... unfortunately may "minimal buzz" which I think i cannot tolerate. So I called GH and they suggested to bring it back for a warranty (of course free of charge)... now since alam ko na medyo matagal sa GH i tried to call Elegee and the man suggested a "fret dress and set up" so okay I went there... sabi ko gaano katagal sabi: hours lang daw :) so sabi ko go...
II. so yun pinagawa ko na guitar ko... then since afternoon na yun kinabukasan kona na claim... and the result: Oh damn magaspang na fret na mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo... mixed emotions ako nun and I dunno if I will say thanks or what? as I have to evaluate it sa house nalng after testing it... ang sobrang sablay talaga dahil "nawala yung magic" and parang kinaskas ng paper deliha (sand paper) yung frets... nawala yung chime and yung kintab...
III. so nahiya ako dalhin sa GH dahil sobrang mahahalata... so I called JUN CASTRO... all I can say is that Jun is really a sincere man with an oozing spirituality and an energetic persona... so I have it fret dressed again - the result was OK - makintab yung frets, makinis, and 70% of the "mojo" got back... kaso I noticed na hindi ata for "jumbo fret" yung crowning tool na ginamit nia (I could be wrong)... but it was ok....
IV. then I decided to call GH and meet the original master... sabi nia sa Phone: kuha ka ng papel and ilista mo lahat yung gusto mong mangyari : so eto sabi ko - :ultra low action without the buzz, and improvement on the fret...
V. so then while at GH... Arie explained a lot of things focusing on the variables of guitar like the "unknown stability of woods esp the neck which only time can predict" the uniqueness of guitar that each guitar has its own tone... and all the "possibilities that can be done sa guitar".... *which is limitless (if you like its tone then push through the mods)
VI. so then he suggested "compounding of radius" and straightening of the neck to allow very low action - he even warn me that at very low action some of the tones might be lost. sabi ko "sir okay lang basta enjoy ako sa pag play"
VII. so yun I got my gear "and ang masabi ko" malayo palang kita mona na "kumikinang yung frets"... then I did the final tweaking like "intonation and final set-up" (I think all should learn the very basic level regarding this)
PS: BTW the contents of this post was the most Important regarding all of what happened - there are insignificant stuffs in between that I deliberately remove.
aruykupo.. sakit sa ulo nga niyan :x
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 13, 2011, 08:08:11 PM
Okay peeps alam ko makakasakit ng onti tong message ko but I'm doing this to warn and at the same time to effect some changes.
I. I got my strat from GH for the ff works: thin skin nitro paint, and some fret dress... unfortunately may "minimal buzz" which I think i cannot tolerate. So I called GH and they suggested to bring it back for a warranty (of course free of charge)... now since alam ko na medyo matagal sa GH i tried to call Elegee and the man suggested a "fret dress and set up" so okay I went there... sabi ko gaano katagal sabi: hours lang daw :) so sabi ko go...
II. so yun pinagawa ko na guitar ko... then since afternoon na yun kinabukasan kona na claim... and the result: Oh damn magaspang na fret na mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo... mixed emotions ako nun and I dunno if I will say thanks or what? as I have to evaluate it sa house nalng after testing it... ang sobrang sablay talaga dahil "nawala yung magic" and parang kinaskas ng paper deliha (sand paper) yung frets... nawala yung chime and yung kintab...
III. so nahiya ako dalhin sa GH dahil sobrang mahahalata... so I called JUN CASTRO... all I can say is that Jun is really a sincere man with an oozing spirituality and an energetic persona... so I have it fret dressed again - the result was OK - makintab yung frets, makinis, and 70% of the "mojo" got back... kaso I noticed na hindi ata for "jumbo fret" yung crowning tool na ginamit nia (I could be wrong)... but it was ok....
IV. then I decided to call GH and meet the original master... sabi nia sa Phone: kuha ka ng papel and ilista mo lahat yung gusto mong mangyari : so eto sabi ko - :ultra low action without the buzz, and improvement on the fret...
V. so then while at GH... Arie explained a lot of things focusing on the variables of guitar like the "unknown stability of woods esp the neck which only time can predict" the uniqueness of guitar that each guitar has its own tone... and all the "possibilities that can be done sa guitar".... *which is limitless (if you like its tone then push through the mods)
VI. so then he suggested "compounding of radius" and straightening of the neck to allow very low action - he even warn me that at very low action some of the tones might be lost. sabi ko "sir okay lang basta enjoy ako sa pag play"
VII. so yun I got my gear "and ang masabi ko" malayo palang kita mona na "kumikinang yung frets"... then I did the final tweaking like "intonation and final set-up" (I think all should learn the very basic level regarding this)
PS: BTW the contents of this post was the most Important regarding all of what happened - there are insignificant stuffs in between that I deliberately remove.
Jun has files for vintage, medium and jumbo frets. I help him acquire these tools from time to time. I have a possible theory why the crowning might be small for your taste, but I won't bother you with it.
It's good to know that your ordeal came full circle. Mukhang maraming nasayang na oras at pera, but I gather it had been an enriching learning experience for you. Something to think about, though... would the discussion that ensued between you and Arie in parts IV, V and VI of your story (which led to your happy ending) been possible without your utter disappointment in part II and rather lukewarm satisfaction in item III?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: hmn8 on February 13, 2011, 11:35:29 PM
Just my opinion: It is true that tone is in the head but for that tone to get into your head, you have to HEAR IT FIRST. Over the years, as I spent money on my boutique guitars, effects and amps -- the minimum standard gets into your head. What I mean by this is that the bar on sound quality and character whether consciously or subconsciously has gone up for me. As a result, ANY guitar equipment and I mean ANYTHING sold by Audiophile, Perfect Pitch, Lazer,RJ, etc. sounds horrible to me. So how do I know this? Simple they all sound so bad to what I have at home that it makes me want to run out of these stores. My Ears cannot stand how they sound. After 5 minutes, there is fatigue in the ears. By the way, for those people and musicians who really know, there is no spirituality unless you have an expressive guitar and good sounding equipment -- it just comes first prior to inspiration. Oh, Steve Vai has tons of guitars more expensive than his stage Ibanez guitars. He also has practice amps that are more expensive than his stage amps so don't restrict Steve Vai to what you see him play on stage.
Just my opinion too: The "magic", spirituality or whatever you want to call it comes from the player not the gear, never was and never will be. Those people who REALLY know and have the experience/ skills to back it up not just some hack who think they know knows this is for a fact. Having better than average gear makes life easier, that's a fact but If a person gathers his inspiration from gear itself then he is just fooling himself because there is always something better. GAS is nothing but a false assumption that this or that gear will elevate your playing, maybe ignite a spark of inspiration. That may happen but like all things generated by material things, it is only temporary so you lust over the next latest and greatest thinking the same thing. On another note: the stores you mentioned in the Phil are businesses who cater to a market with a price bracket. They don't want to carry top end equipment since they know mabubulok lang yon as display. Besides, if you ask those people who work there I'm sure they'd tell you that they've heard people with gear more expensive than their salaries combined but after they play for less than 5 mins, they have fatigue in their ears.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 14, 2011, 12:00:02 AM
Ok sir. Thanks for the thought. Im not saying im correct or anything. Its just an opinion im trying to address because i believe in it and im not justifying its the absolute truth because its things are always different in every situation.Tone is not expensive. Tone is in the head and the thought is very general. If you don't have a good tone in your head and find in others good tone you feel frustrated and will believe that expensive gear is good tone. Because you have a piece of crap gear. Rather than concentrating on playing guitar and enjoying physically mentally, emotionally and spiritually. For what steve vai showed good tone is its not in the equipment its in your head. Its just in the sense that Steve Vai needs a big big amp for big hall concerts, sponsors/product promotions for ibanez and with all his gear that works good for him and most especially he got the money and he's in the U.S. He can't play a practice amp and a cheap o'l squier in front of thousands of fans in a big hall. because he is in a situation where he needs his big expensive gear because that works for him in that environment and he can buy stuff.
Other than this is the Philippines and budget is always an issue.For us local musicians this is a big issue. But this is a big problem because the information big foreign artists (which some or most of us are trying to imitate) fed us with this kind of perspective that good tone is expensive because of the expensive gear they have. But again that is the U.S, their currency and salaries are bigger than what we use to have in the end of the month, even a U.S college student can buy 2 stacks of marshalls and dozens of gibsons without any problems. But here struggling amateur to semi pro musicians have low budgets and have cheap squiers and imitations etc. If they are fed with the idea that when you have a 100,000 peso worth of guitar and amp ( which I'am exaggerating ) and your guitar hero's uses those expensive setups, you can have the best tone possible. That is a myth that we, some or most musicians suffer. That's why we keep selling our equipment because its low end cheap and we cant find a good tone with it and becomes frustrated in time when bills become a problem you cant buy gear anymore. The hunt for a good tone is a myth when the answer in dave's opinion is good tone is in the head. Steve vai showed that to dave to make him also realize something and tell the world about it. If you have a cheap guitar and a cheap amp then have fun playing with it and find your own tone i think that makes a guitar hero.
just my opinion and i have nothing against anyone just a freedom of speech actually and not a form of debate. If you disagree its ok. If you agree its also ok. If you don't reply its also ok :-D and oh yeah i forgot i'm not much of a steve vai or dave weiner fan. :-)
Ayan... nakadale tuloy si oas. :lol:
Forgive me if I have to dissect your post a bit. May kahabaan kasi... On second thought, never mind. I thought about it, and I'll only end up with an even longer and more complicated post. Wag na lang... tatamarin ka lang basahin. More importantly, ayokong magmukhang sinegundahan ko si Alex. Hehe.
I'll just say that I accept your explanation, even though there are things I'd like to straighten out.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 14, 2011, 12:07:45 AM
Forgive me if I have to dissect your post a bit. May kahabaan kasi... On second thought, never mind. I thought about it, and I'll only end up with an even longer and more complicated post. Wag na lang... tatamarin ka lang basahin. More importantly, ayokong magmukhang sinegundahan ko si Alex. Hehe.
I'll just say that I accept your explanation, even though there are things I'd like to straighten out.
haha ok sir thanks im open to any suggestions or even a critic naman, i'm not great of a guitar player or a rich person to say my comment is better than anyone. Nope i dont think so. I accepted your comment naman sir though i forgot to say it. Anyway its just an opinion. If you like to straight it out its ok sir. For the benefit of the readers or to those curious ones. Even a summary i suppose will help para di na mahaba. Thanks :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 14, 2011, 08:33:38 AM
Just my opinion too: The "magic", spirituality or whatever you want to call it comes from the player not the gear, never was and never will be. Those people who REALLY know and have the experience/ skills to back it up not just some hack who think they know knows this is for a fact. Having better than average gear makes life easier, that's a fact but If a person gathers his inspiration from gear itself then he is just fooling himself because there is always something better. GAS is nothing but a false assumption that this or that gear will elevate your playing, maybe ignite a spark of inspiration.
(Talaga? Bakit ka pa nag gitara? Dapat pala nag drums ka na lang. MAGICAL gear goes beyond making life easier... it becomes a part of the person. Unfortunately, in my opinion, I don't think you have played or heard MAGICAL gear.)
That may happen but like all things generated by material things, it is only temporary so you lust over the next latest and greatest thinking the same thing. On another note: the stores you mentioned in the Phil are businesses who cater to a market with a price bracket. They don't want to carry top end equipment since they know mabubulok lang yon as display. Besides, if you ask those people who work there I'm sure they'd tell you that they've heard people with gear more expensive than their salaries combined but after they play for less than 5 mins, they have fatigue in their ears.
(In my opinion, I do NOT think that the 'people who work there' know what good sounding equipment is or else they would just have quit from having to demo all the lousy sounding gear in those stores. I really don't know of people with expensive gear who bring those to stores because most of the sales people in the stores don't know jack about equipment other than those being sold by the store... And for them, they are so biased that they start to think its the best sounding gear just because they are selling it.)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 14, 2011, 12:09:04 PM
can anyone describe magical tone? i wanna know..
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 14, 2011, 07:20:05 PM
Just my opinion too: The "magic", spirituality or whatever you want to call it comes from the player not the gear, never was and never will be. Those people who REALLY know and have the experience/ skills to back it up not just some hack who think they know knows this is for a fact. Having better than average gear makes life easier, that's a fact but If a person gathers his inspiration from gear itself then he is just fooling himself because there is always something better. GAS is nothing but a false assumption that this or that gear will elevate your playing, maybe ignite a spark of inspiration.
(Talaga? Bakit ka pa nag gitara? Dapat pala nag drums ka na lang. MAGICAL gear goes beyond making life easier... it becomes a part of the person. Unfortunately, in my opinion, I don't think you have played or heard MAGICAL gear.)
< If you really understood what I stated then you know the answer to your question but apparently, you did not and I'm not surprised. It's good you have an opinion while you're still a beginner because aside from the opinion, there's nothing else going on.>
That may happen but like all things generated by material things, it is only temporary so you lust over the next latest and greatest thinking the same thing. On another note: the stores you mentioned in the Phil are businesses who cater to a market with a price bracket. They don't want to carry top end equipment since they know mabubulok lang yon as display. Besides, if you ask those people who work there I'm sure they'd tell you that they've heard people with gear more expensive than their salaries combined but after they play for less than 5 mins, they have fatigue in their ears.
(In my opinion, I do NOT think that the 'people who work there' know what good sounding equipment is or else they would just have quit from having to demo all the lousy sounding gear in those stores. I really don't know of people with expensive gear who bring those to stores because most of the sales people in the stores don't know jack about equipment other than those being sold by the store... And for them, they are so biased that they start to think its the best sounding gear just because they (OWN IT) are selling it.)
< FIXED. Oh such irony.. >
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 15, 2011, 02:03:34 AM
Sige naway dito rin naman babagsak ito ilalatag kona ang very good example..
SEASICK STEVE..
The TONE IS IN THE HEART wala sa kahit ano pang instrumento, kung wala sa puso natin ang pagtugtug nito wala rin lahat balewala din kahit ano pang insrumento... hehehe opinyun ko lang naman ito :-)
Ganun lang kasimple yun. :-)
I'm with you. My favorite blues players have the s#)tt)@$t guitars ever but made the most influential music of the 20th century.
Elmore James with the cheapest Kay acoustic with a so-so pickup jammed in the soundhole.
Robert Johnson with a low end Kalamazoo flat top acoustic.
Leadbelly with a 12 string plywood topped Stella.
Hound Dog Taylor with those stinky Japanese guitars on a broken tube amp.
Blind Blake again with a Stella.
Even some of the greatest music ever recorded sounded so-so. Ever heard of Motown?
The guitar on that video has an ok tone. But if that played clean, it cannot make a good sound. Nonetheless, the guys has impressive chops and it comes across clearly to me.
Good tone is subjective and need not be expensive.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: free2rock on February 15, 2011, 03:18:07 AM
Frank Zappa recorded his guitar tracks using a small Pignose amp.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: jbarot on February 15, 2011, 06:28:28 AM
I'm with you. My favorite blues players have the s#)tt)@$t guitars ever but made the most influential music of the 20th century.
Elmore James with the cheapest Kay acoustic with a so-so pickup jammed in the soundhole.
Robert Johnson with a low end Kalamazoo flat top acoustic.
Leadbelly with a 12 string plywood topped Stella.
Hound Dog Taylor with those stinky Japanese guitars on a broken tube amp.
Blind Blake again with a Stella.
Even some of the greatest music ever recorded sounded so-so. Ever heard of Motown?
The guitar on that video has an ok tone. But if that played clean, it cannot make a good sound. Nonetheless, the guys has impressive chops and it comes across clearly to me.
Good tone is subjective and need not be expensive.
I am willing to bet how they wished that they had boutique gear to better express TONE IS IN THE HEART. Kung ganoon ka ka-bilib sa kanila, gamitin mo ngayon ang [gooey brown stuff] na gamit nila... Walk the talk.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ioffendpeople on February 15, 2011, 10:42:35 AM
I am willing to bet how they wished that they had boutique gear to better express TONE IS IN THE HEART. Kung ganoon ka ka-bilib sa kanila, gamitin mo ngayon ang [gooey brown stuff] na gamit nila... Walk the talk.
OH BOY HERE WE GO
inb4 angry responses, thread lock, etc.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 15, 2011, 10:47:06 AM
I am willing to bet how they wished that they had boutique gear to better express TONE IS IN THE HEART. Kung ganoon ka ka-bilib sa kanila, gamitin mo ngayon ang [gooey brown stuff] na gamit nila... Walk the talk.
I am willing to bet how they wished that they had boutique gear to better express TONE IS IN THE HEART. Kung ganoon ka ka-bilib sa kanila, gamitin mo ngayon ang [gooey brown stuff] na gamit nila... Walk the talk.
walk the talk daw.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Marga88 on February 15, 2011, 11:12:52 AM
The end is near. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 15, 2011, 11:14:52 AM
I am willing to bet how they wished that they had boutique gear to better express TONE IS IN THE HEART. Kung ganoon ka ka-bilib sa kanila, gamitin mo ngayon ang [gooey brown stuff] na gamit nila... Walk the talk.
Jeezus, don't you have anything other than a sledgehammer in your toolbox? :? :lol:
I'm with you. My favorite blues players have the s#)tt)@$t guitars ever but made the most influential music of the 20th century.
Elmore James with the cheapest Kay acoustic with a so-so pickup jammed in the soundhole.
Robert Johnson with a low end Kalamazoo flat top acoustic.
Leadbelly with a 12 string plywood topped Stella.
Hound Dog Taylor with those stinky Japanese guitars on a broken tube amp.
Blind Blake again with a Stella.
Even some of the greatest music ever recorded sounded so-so. Ever heard of Motown?
The guitar on that video has an ok tone. But if that played clean, it cannot make a good sound. Nonetheless, the guys has impressive chops and it comes across clearly to me.
Good tone is subjective and need not be expensive.
I've been recently listening to Son House and Robert Johnson. I know what you mean. But don't you think they would have gotten out of their way to use better instruments for recording if they could afford them?
I took my girlfriend out to lunch yesterday, and there was this guitar quartet serenading customers. They played cheap, beat-up instruments that were definitely poorly tuned. But they did their thing pretty well despite that. On the other hand, I am really sure they wouldn't mind using nicer guitars.
What I am really tired of seeing, hearing and reading is how some people use these examples as excuses and be even more defensive about their gear because they're poor or whatnot. Eto yung mga tao na pag nakakita ng member na nag-post ng matinding amp, e ang banat agad e... wow ang yaman mo sir. O kaya pag humingi ng suggestions about a pedal or something... you suggest something really good, tapos sasagutin ka pa ng pabalagbag tapos sesegundahan ng... mahirap lang po ako sir... Ugh.
And that is what bothers me: the quotes and stories enabling the attitude of these people rarely tell the whole story of things.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 15, 2011, 11:25:38 AM
Yeah but there are more musicians who are as great as him who recorded on a SLO 100.
Yes, but that's not the point. The point is, cheap gear doesn't always equate to poor tone or sound. For as long as you really know how to play, knowing proper guitar phrasing and having the right amount of technique, then the ultra-expensive guitars and gears would be the least of your concerns. Make do with what you have. Feel it, be passionate about it and it'll do wonders.
Frank, at the time, already had the means to purchase and use high-end recording equipment and amps. But he opted to use the Pignose instead. Why? Because of the three (3) factors or components Frank had with the Pignose: Comfortability, Satisfaction and Contentment.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: jbarot on February 15, 2011, 11:28:43 AM
Why does tone come before the songs? Isn't that why we picked up the guitar in the first place? And why all this petty fighting? Over wires strung up on a plank of wood? I hate to sound like USA for Africa but there is enough fighting in this world, let's not add to it.
Anyway I'll shut up now, kadalasan sa away yung umaawat ang namamatay. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 15, 2011, 11:29:37 AM
Yes, but that's not the point. The point is, cheap gear doesn't always equate to poor tone or sound. For as long as you really know how to play, knowing proper guitar phrasing and having the right amount of technique, then the ultra-expensive guitars and gears would be the least of your concerns. Make do with what you have. Feel it, be passionate about it and it'll do wonders.
Frank, at the time, already had the means to purchase and use high-end recording equipment and amps. But he opted to use the Pignose instead. Why? Because of the three (3) factors or components Frank had with the Pignose: Comfortability, Satisfaction and Contentment.
Yes. and it was his choice afterall
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 15, 2011, 11:52:58 AM
Why does tone come before the songs? Isn't that why we picked up the guitar in the first place? And why all this petty fighting? Over wires strung up on a plank of wood? I hate to sound like USA for Africa but there is enough fighting in this world, let's not add to it.
Anyway I'll shut up now, kadalasan sa away yung umaawat ang namamatay. :-D
+100000000. super like bro. after all. people remember good music :)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 15, 2011, 11:56:26 AM
There’s a big difference between a cheap gear that sounds horrible and would go out of tune after a chord and cheap gear that has good tone and character that would hold tune for weeks and is giggable, and can even be used for recording.
I don’t know how big the difference between the cheap mid ranged guitars vs the boutique guitars though, but im sure its not as big of difference versus the horrible crap gears.
And some people lack the money to buy boutique gears but they compensate it with proper matching of guitars, amps and pedals to get good tone. Oh, and most importantly, skills and emotion.
oh, and some peeps can buy a lot more boutique gears than most of us here.. but some choose not to.. i dont know why.. but i do know some of them are out to prove that Great tone isnt always's expensive.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Marga88 on February 15, 2011, 11:58:16 AM
Could somebody please post the Youtube animated video about the tone/gear discussion in TGP. :-)
That's really funny. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 15, 2011, 12:09:07 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: nasan na ba si TS? Tignan mong ginawa mo. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: xelalien on February 15, 2011, 01:06:09 PM
There’s a big difference between a cheap gear that sounds horrible and would go out of tune after a chord and cheap gear that has good tone and character that would hold tune for weeks and is giggable, and can even be used for recording.
I don’t know how big the difference between the cheap mid ranged guitars vs the boutique guitars though, but im sure its not as big of difference versus the horrible crap gears.
And some people lack the money to buy boutique gears but they compensate it with proper matching of guitars, amps and pedals to get good tone. Oh, and most importantly, skills and emotion.
oh, and some peeps can buy a lot more boutique gears than most of us here.. but some choose not to.. i dont know why.. but i do know some of them are out to prove that Great tone isnt always's expensive.
in addition, having great expensive gear shouldn't limit nor forbid you against utilizing available cheap gear. anything is possible naman di ba? kaya rin nagkaroon ng mga DIY builders, para magkaroon ng cheaper alternatives.
besides, the average listeners don't care too much kung anong expensive amp/guitar/pedals ang ginamit sa live gig or sa studio record, basta importante catchy sa kanila ang kanta.
What I am really tired of seeing, hearing and reading is how some people use these examples as excuses and be even more defensive about their gear because they're poor or whatnot.
totally agree with this. which is why i reacted when popcorn photos came out. walang natutulong sa thread mga post na ganun eh.
actually Alex's post above made a lot of sense and is the truth - if those musicians were given the opportunity to obtain better gear, they would've taken it. only a hypocrite will say otherwise.
while it's true that great tone isn't always expensive, fact to the matter is, as you go up the price ladder - quality goes up too (all things being equal). this is applicable to everything - cars, appliances, and yeah even guitar gear. if everything is as good as everything, then they should all be priced the same.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 15, 2011, 01:14:20 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: nasan na ba si TS? Tignan mong ginawa mo. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Haha. Bro what i did is just shared the video and hoped for a healthy discussion.
and as i posted the title i didn't stated na GREAT TONE ISNT ALWAYS EXPENSIVE. nilgay ko sha sa subject na VIDEO TITLE :| on open and closed parenthesis.
Hahaha yung iba po jan. basa basa muna bago react :)) kase kayo din ang nag mumukang ewan eh. absorb the real content :))
masama na ba mag share ng inresting finds?
bkt ba kailangan mag angasan ba kase? pwede naman i relay in a nice way yung mga sasabihin. bakit kailangan mang bash pa
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 15, 2011, 01:24:06 PM
totally agree with this. which is why i reacted when popcorn photos came out. walang natutulong sa thread mga post na ganun eh.
actually Alex's post above made a lot of sense and is the truth - if those musicians were given the opportunity to obtain better gear, they would've taken it. only a hypocrite will say otherwise.
while it's true that great tone isn't always expensive, fact to the matter is, as you go up the price ladder - quality goes up too (all things being equal). this is applicable to everything - cars, appliances, and yeah even guitar gear. if everything is as good as everything, then they should all be priced the same.
Sir with all due respect. he could have relayed this in a nicer way, but he chose to bash it
I am willing to bet how they wished that they had boutique gear to better express TONE IS IN THE HEART. Kung ganoon ka ka-bilib sa kanila, gamitin mo ngayon ang [gooey brown stuff] na gamit nila... Walk the talk.
the guys opinion is relayed nicely. and this is the quoate he gets from alex.
with all due respect sir
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 15, 2011, 01:30:15 PM
I'm with you. My favorite blues players have the s#)tt)@$t guitars ever but made the most influential music of the 20th century.
you wanted a healthy discussion and you actually got it. thing is, there are some guys who ALWAYS react badly when they see a post coming from firemodel55. i tried backreading a bit. it started with the indian and the pana. reactions were sooooo out of context in that page and got repeated again in this page. why? because he posted his 2 cents. some people just push the curtain of subjectivity too far.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: raybrig on February 15, 2011, 02:04:51 PM
^ :-)
Ok naman un posts ni Firemodel, puro information. Di ko lang ma take yun ibang OT posts. Ok na sana un exchange ng ideas, kaso... oh well.
Sana ituloy na lang yun bigayan ng healthy info.
Ilan taon na ba tayo? :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 15, 2011, 02:20:46 PM
that's not Alex bashing a post. if you're talking about the "gooey brown stuff", the person he quoted also said something to that effect:
you wanted a healthy discussion and you actually got it. thing is, there are some guys who ALWAYS react badly when they see a post coming from firemodel55. i tried backreading a bit. it started with the indian and the pana. reactions were sooooo out of context in that page and got repeated again in this page. why? because he posted his 2 cents. some people just push the curtain of subjectivity too far.
well, for my answers to that its just my opinion that i translated metaphoricly ( Indian as user and Bow as the guitar ) and i think my opinion's make's sense because what i said even an average player could get a high end guitar if he has the budget (no judgement about the talent involve on what i said ) and for me nothing's wrong with that. cause they earned it,to have it. and yes, i apologize for posting some funny shots but i didn't intend to offend anyone i just want to make it more fun cause were all boys here. i thought this post would lead to like, to those who has a tight budget but love's playing the guitar too much and passionate about would have hope, cause you know im sure they would love to have a nice tone like every guitar player, but problem is they are too tight plus they may have other responsibilities like family etc. well. not all of us can afford those high ends (200k-300k amp) and pick on the low ends is kinda crushing a bit of hope too. and my uncle and aunt is a music producer, and he can testify that there a artists that sticks to just regular gears amps guitars but they have been given the choice to buy those high ends but they choose not too, personal preference pa din. its their choice
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 15, 2011, 02:23:52 PM
Haha. Bro what i did is just shared the video and hoped for a healthy discussion.
and as i posted the title i didn't stated na GREAT TONE ISNT ALWAYS EXPENSIVE. nilgay ko sha sa subject na VIDEO TITLE :| on open and closed parenthesis.
Hahaha yung iba po jan. basa basa muna bago react :)) kase kayo din ang nag mumukang ewan eh. absorb the real content :))
masama na ba mag share ng inresting finds?
bkt ba kailangan mag angasan ba kase? pwede naman i relay in a nice way yung mga sasabihin. bakit kailangan mang bash pa
yah i know brad! nahantong lang sa nakaka nosebleed na englishan at teknikalan. nakakatawa nga e. :lol: ng dahil sa Bulok na PANA ng Magaling na INDIAN sa VID. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 15, 2011, 05:55:26 PM
Ok... I think I should say something or add more detail and be a bit more long winded before things get out of control.
A lot of people thru out the years know me as a champion of Japanese made guitars. In fact, my boutique amps came first before any of my boutique guitars. However that changed when I met my Baker#55. It was the first US$5K guitar that I bought and of course, the first question that entered my mind and I think anybody's mind is -- is it MARGINALLY worth it? Unfortunately, I had difficulty trying to identify the MARGINALLY and arrived at the conclusion that nothing I had tried or owned in the past was like it. But siyempre may honeymoon period. And as time passed, it was truly difficult to find something to equal it -- I was not discounting the possibility that I should find something superior to the Baker firemodel#55 in the future. Siyempre gusto mo rin mukhang ESP, Jackson, Dean or Ibanez with the properties of the Baker. Pero wala. Gusto mo rin mas cheap rin na name brand kasi gusto mo dalhin sa gig and to belong with the "boys club". Again, you can ask even my luthier friend Arie Hipolito, and he will ascertain that nothing he has tried has all the properties that Baker Firemodel#55 has. If there is one guitar that Mr. Hipolito believes that goes on auto-pilot, thats the Baker Firemodel#55 which as I said before does 30-40% of the work for you in terms of effort and sound. It just seems to sound good and respond on its own naturally as if it can read your mind. A truly magical guitar that we -- both of us -- cannot explain -- how and why and how it came to be as it is. By the way, it really shines beyond expectations on my boutique amps. If there is one guitar that can show the difference very well between a production amp and great sounding and designed boutique tube amp, this is the guitar. Personally, the joke between us is... are the firemodel 55's days numbered when the Gil Yaron arrives? Either which way, in my personal assessment, it will be a zero sum game. There will only be one winner and one loser.
Can there be something cheaper to rival firemodel55? I don't think so. There seems to be a minimum amount of TLC and quality that goes into a magical guitar that costs money with the final sprinkling of magic dust from God.
On the other hand, I have tried more expensive guitars and guitars at the same price of my baker that don't sound as good. Even, similar bakers. Can they sound better than average epiphone? Yes. Will an outstanding Epiphone beat an average sounding Baker? Maybe. The question though remains, how many outstanding Epiphones are out there? Maybe a handful or so.
There are two extremes when it comes to buying guitars which I personally observed:
a. The guy who believes that tone is in the hands and believes that great tone can be had cheap. Yet the funny thing is that he has more than a dozen cheap guitars that if you total can buy a single or two great sounding guitars. Worse, these guys cannot buy a guitar without testing it and being finicky about it despite their profession that tone is in their hands.
b. The guy with tons of expensive guitars but does not know or hears what sounds great. They usually flip their boutique or vintage guitars and end up round robin with the same type guitar after two or three years. Worse, these guys have to technically cite a specific quality about the guitar to justify keeping them in their inventory. Unknowingly, it reveals that their guitar ain't good because the really great sounding guitars excel in almost all aspects of guitar playing.
Something closer to home... I can pick out great sounding American Standards from a fresh batch of arrivals in Perfect Pitch. Its easy for me. One in twenty is the success ratio for American Fender today. Yet compared to a hand picked classic suhr picked by the suhr factory, it does not hold a candle. Despite it being at least 2.5 x more expensive than an American Standard, ang layo pa rin. The question is NOT whether its MARGINAL... rather it becomes a question of which one to use. And the Suhr wins out all the time. So, its not a question of whether Suhr can produce duds, they do.... but those that they produce with exceptional mojo ain't cheap by asian and even by average american standards.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 15, 2011, 08:42:17 PM
Of course as you said, if the blues players are given better equipment they will certainly get it. Didn't BB King upgraded to a Gibson after a Stella.
It is just funny that people remember and are influenced by Bluesmen who made records with gear of low quality.
I have always walked the talked. Been a pro for 16 years and have always used equipment I can afford. I never had a US made guitar. All bought in a music store.
I have been always coaxed to get boutique gear. But I am content with what I have. People say I sound good. And that's what counts.
No need to prove anything.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 15, 2011, 09:07:21 PM
. actually Alex's post above made a lot of sense and is the truth - if those musicians were given the opportunity to obtain better gear, they would've taken it. only a hypocrite will say otherwise.
That's true. I've said it before and will say again: those old bluesmen bought the finest gear, cars, clothes, and "wimmens" the moment they can afford it. But, man, they played the hell out of their gear too and made some fine music in the process. Whereas we sit in front of the computer and debate about their gear. LOL!
Btw, some of those guitars seem cheap to us now but they were some of the best during that time, and certainly some of the best those old bluesmen can afford. Even a $10 guitar from the Sears & Roebuck catalog was a luxury at that time for them. Not unlike a sharecropper or slave buying a Suhr or Baker. ;-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ioffendpeople on February 15, 2011, 09:13:49 PM
That's true. I've said it before and will say again: those old bluesmen bought the finest gear, cars, clothes, and "wimmens" the moment they can afford it. But, man, they played the hell out of their gear too and made some fine music in the process. Whereas we sit in front of the computer and debate about their gear. LOL!
Btw, some of those guitars seem cheap to us now but they were some of the best during that time, and certainly some of the best those old bluesmen can afford. Even a $10 guitar from the Sears & Roebuck catalog was a luxury at that time for them. Not unlike a sharecropper or slave buying a Suhr or Baker. ;-)
back then sears had those great silvertone guitars. i wish i had one of those old bolt-on hollowbodies to rock out with today
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 15, 2011, 09:14:26 PM
I've been recently listening to Son House and Robert Johnson. I know what you mean. But don't you think they would have gotten out of their way to use better instruments for recording if they could afford them?
I took my girlfriend out to lunch yesterday, and there was this guitar quartet serenading customers. They played cheap, beat-up instruments that were definitely poorly tuned. But they did their thing pretty well despite that. On the other hand, I am really sure they wouldn't mind using nicer guitars.
What I am really tired of seeing, hearing and reading is how some people use these examples as excuses and be even more defensive about their gear because they're poor or whatnot. Eto yung mga tao na pag nakakita ng member na nag-post ng matinding amp, e ang banat agad e... wow ang yaman mo sir. O kaya pag humingi ng suggestions about a pedal or something... you suggest something really good, tapos sasagutin ka pa ng pabalagbag tapos sesegundahan ng... mahirap lang po ako sir... Ugh.
And that is what bothers me: the quotes and stories enabling the attitude of these people rarely tell the whole story of things.
I couldn't agree with you more man. Given all the opportunities, all of us would definitely get all the boutique gear - IF WE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.
I am simply saying that we can still make great music even without the expensive gear. As shown by my favorite bluesmen.
If we can't afford it, then we can be content with the ones we have. We can still sound good on it.
The fighting about money versus poverty is not good anymore. I realized that it is wrong so we should stop that. I am only asserting that good tone need not be expensive. Even average equipment can make great music.
At the end of the day, it's the music.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: hmn8 on February 15, 2011, 09:47:39 PM
Ok naman un posts ni Firemodel, puro information. Di ko lang ma take yun ibang OT posts. Ok na sana un exchange ng ideas, kaso... oh well.
Sana ituloy na lang yun bigayan ng healthy info.
Ilan taon na ba tayo? :-)
Actually a lot of it is misinformation but since a lot of people here do not have access to high end gear they tend to agree whatever things those people say. It's a phenomenon I have noticed in the Philippines. Don't have the money/things that the other person have? Bow down, maybe he'll let you even try it.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: hmn8 on February 15, 2011, 09:54:36 PM
Actually a lot of it is misinformation but since a lot of people here do not have access to high end gear they tend to agree whatever things those people say. It's a phenomenon I have noticed in the Philippines. Don't have the money/things that the other person have? Bow down, maybe he'll let you even try it.
... a lot of it is just opinion, too. People just need to learn to distinguish between opinion and fact. And if listening to opinion, not think that their own gear is less worthy just because it doesn't pass someone else's standards.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: the count on February 15, 2011, 10:17:48 PM
@ AL No doubt GH IMO can do all the jobs done... and certainly Jun as well... depende naman sa kung sinong gamay mo eh... and I agree with all forums that I've read: ARIE'S frets of GH are wow! so it's like in my case (IMO) I rank GH #1 and ROADTONE #2...
But you know I'm really tired of the luthier comparison. guess it's time to have a guild of luthier where unity happens... I'm dreaming of standardized and high quality services "I just don't want that sardinas frets again" and certainly I don't want that "loser" experience be felt by anyone.
My Guitar is where 1/4 of my soul dwells so I felt "abused" when I was wronged by that "psuedo luthier"
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: hmn8 on February 16, 2011, 02:31:48 AM
... a lot of it is just opinion, too. People just need to learn to distinguish between opinion and fact. And if listening to opinion, not think that their own gear is less worthy just because it doesn't pass someone else's standards.
That is indeed true. The only problem is that people don't often realize that it is only an opinion since in most cases it is being presented as actual fact w/ name drops, labels and price tag to support it.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 16, 2011, 02:38:57 AM
But you know I'm really tired of the luthier comparison. guess it's time to have a guild of luthier where unity happens... I'm dreaming of standardized and high quality services "I just don't want that sardinas frets again" and certainly I don't want that "loser" experience be felt by anyone.
My Guitar is where 1/4 of my soul dwells so I felt "abused" when I was wronged by that "psuedo luthier"
hey count just a question since never met Elegee before..have you tried the guitars he makes? are those Sardinas frets too?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: hmn8 on February 16, 2011, 02:53:35 AM
that's not Alex bashing a post. if you're talking about the "gooey brown stuff", the person he quoted also said something to that effect:
you wanted a healthy discussion and you actually got it. thing is, there are some guys who ALWAYS react badly when they see a post coming from firemodel55. i tried backreading a bit. it started with the indian and the pana. reactions were sooooo out of context in that page and got repeated again in this page. why? because he posted his 2 cents. some people just push the curtain of subjectivity too far.
totally agree with this. which is why i reacted when popcorn photos came out. walang natutulong sa thread mga post na ganun eh.
actually Alex's post above made a lot of sense and is the truth - if those musicians were given the opportunity to obtain better gear, they would've taken it. only a hypocrite will say otherwise.
I will respectfully disagree with this. Somebody who says otherwise is not a hypocrite but an inexperienced musician. Yes, some will jump at the opportunity but those who don't are not hypocrite, they just know what they need to get the job done. What you look for in gear is character and how it translate to your music, how it sits in a track. Sometimes that character comes from old, cheap gear and sometimes it comes from really expensive ones. It all depends on the type of music you're creating. Would RATM's debut album be more influential if Tom used an orig 59 LP and a Dumble amp? Would Eric Johnson be able to create Ah Via Musicom w/ a first act guitar and a pignose amp? Would Marley's Redemption Song be more beautiful if he used a 20k acoustic? There is no measuring stick in art.
Imagine if all forum members here own boutique equipment. High end guitars, amps, efx, the works. Do you think we would all get along by then? No! Because it is human nature to look for the greener pasture, to look for something better than the next guy. I'm sure there will be somebody who will buy the more expensive gear, brag about it and say "look, my stuff is better than yours" but there will also be some people that will say "what I have right now is enough for what I want to accomplish, now excuse me while I make some music".
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: samuelfianza on February 16, 2011, 03:50:27 AM
Horrible tone isn't always cheap.
sorry guys :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 16, 2011, 06:50:53 AM
I have not spoken about this video for a long long time...
Here is my side of the equation. I was using Jon Elegee's amp and he was using a cellphone to record the sound. So, if you think that its horrible tone then as a moron you should accept that it is because of Jon's lousy amp and lousy cellphone. Period. I have always said that people who think they should judge tone using cellphones are stupid and deaf -- that includes you samuel.:) Sorry guys.
Now thats off my chest...
At that point in time, I was friends with Elegee. In fact the only reason, I brought the Baker to him at that time because none of Elegee's guitars had hiyaw. They were heavy and inconsistent. It was difficult for the Jon to accept at that time. Today, I can only surmise the video is still up there because Jon cannot accept that he cannot put magic into his guitars. That I cannot blame him for because I believe all guitar manufacturers including boutique guys cannot put magic in ALL their guitars.
Sorry Elegee... but it had to come out because you never discussed the context of why you had taken the video -- because you wanted to imprint the baker firemodel#55. At that time, you were making and selling guitars that did not have hiyaw. But at that time, I told him to continue making guitars because I felt he was on to something and fulfilled the need for an affordable custom guitar. I really don't know now... I have not tried any of his newer guitars.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 16, 2011, 07:01:19 AM
Yes, but that's not the point. The point is, cheap gear doesn't always equate to poor tone or sound. For as long as you really know how to play, knowing proper guitar phrasing and having the right amount of technique, then the ultra-expensive guitars and gears would be the least of your concerns. Make do with what you have. Feel it, be passionate about it and it'll do wonders.
Frank, at the time, already had the means to purchase and use high-end recording equipment and amps. But he opted to use the Pignose instead. Why? Because of the three (3) factors or components Frank had with the Pignose: Comfortability, Satisfaction and Contentment.
So whats the point? If you can cite one specific context wherein a known guitarist uses a pignose, I can provide the other perspective that there are more known guitarists to who the soldano SLO 100 than a pginose because it sounds better. Unless you are telling me that Zappa is superior to everybody else, I am within my rights to cite a counter example. THATS THE POINT.
What price level do you define as cheap? What price level do you define as ultra expensive? Ang pignose na sinsabi mo ay mas mahal pa ngayon kaysa ibang practice amp na gawang china na mabibili sa JB. As I observe audiences, technic is just around 20% of the equation for them. The 80% is sound timbre. Why? Because they are tired off guitarist wanking off and sounding bad. Of course the song is more important than anything else. Don't you notice that only guitarists clap at solos while most of the audience who are non-guitarists are happy that the solo is over? Specially those with bad tone. I can tell you that the audience hates the raspy distortion coming out of multi-effects and excessive crash cymbals. Those are the two things that shut off people's ears.
Lets put it into context... how often did Zappa use his pignose in vis-a-vis his other expensive stuff? If you are saying that he used the Pignose because of its sound quality, so why does he also use the other high end stuff?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: free2rock on February 16, 2011, 07:49:46 AM
Zappa decided to use a the small Pignose for recording because he probably felt it was the right one for the music he created. And based on how it was received, he was right. I pointed this out because "great tone isn't always expensive"--as the title shows. BUT I did not put that note out there just to deny the fact that expensive gear does not produce great tone. More often than not, expensive gear may get you close.
There has to be a sense of balance between how gear, technique and musicality work hand in hand to produce tone.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kurtseth on February 16, 2011, 07:58:51 AM
finally someone who can say his opinion without bashing anyone Else's own.
I just want to qualify that taken separately -- and that was how this thread was started -- equipment was the context of the discussion. Musicality and technique are part and parcel of music. So, as I said, song is king but equipment like any job or endeavor plays a huge role that people tend to diminish because they cannot afford it. Unfortunately, higher standards require higher costs and some people would want it otherwise because of their bruised ego. As much as I want to go back to my tokai, which to my surprise is selling around three times my purchase price at that time... I simply cannot because my classic Suhr Strat sounds so much better in ALL aspects.
So I post as a challenge to people who claim that great tone isn't expensive, WHAT GUITAR GEAR DID YOU EVER BUY THAT YOU CONSIDER EXPENSIVE?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: raybrig on February 16, 2011, 08:48:18 AM
^hinay hinay lang po sana sir, baka po may maoffend po kasi. kung pwede lang :-) maganda sana mga info's nyo sir, kaso... you know :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 16, 2011, 09:24:55 AM
I simply cannot because my classic Suhr Strat sounds so much better in ALL aspects.
hi sir would you think every musician would say the same regarding your suhr strat and your tokai strat in, for example, a blind test? even if they are subjected to cheap amps to the boutique ones?
just asking.. because i really do like blind tests because somewhat, if the brain knows something is much more expensive, it may tell the ears that its sounds better too..
just asking.. just my opinion..
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 16, 2011, 09:40:36 AM
^hinay hinay lang po sana sir, baka po may maoffend po kasi. kung pwede lang :-) maganda sana mga info's nyo sir, kaso... you know :-)
di niya kelangan mag hinay hinay kasi may mga nagtatanggol naman sa mga posts niya e. hehehe. if he was capable more tact in these forums, we should've already seen it years ago.
I will respectfully disagree with this. Somebody who says otherwise is not a hypocrite but an inexperienced musician. Yes, some will jump at the opportunity but those who don't are not hypocrite, they just know what they need to get the job done. What you look for in gear is character and how it translate to your music, how it sits in a track. Sometimes that character comes from old, cheap gear and sometimes it comes from really expensive ones. It all depends on the type of music you're creating. Would RATM's debut album be more influential if Tom used an orig 59 LP and a Dumble amp? Would Eric Johnson be able to create Ah Via Musicom w/ a first act guitar and a pignose amp? Would Marley's Redemption Song be more beautiful if he used a 20k acoustic? There is no measuring stick in art.
While some will be inexperienced, there will be a handful who will inevitably be hypocrites. But you bring up an excellent point. I think it's important to make such distinctions. Mahirap yung nag-ge-generalize basta basta.
Imagine if all forum members here own boutique equipment. High end guitars, amps, efx, the works. Do you think we would all get along by then? No! Because it is human nature to look for the greener pasture, to look for something better than the next guy. I'm sure there will be somebody who will buy the more expensive gear, brag about it and say "look, my stuff is better than yours" but there will also be some people that will say "what I have right now is enough for what I want to accomplish, now excuse me while I make some music".
Another excellent point.
On my part, while I don't brag about having expensive gear, I do constantly try to look for something different (which sometimes thankfully ends up being cheaper).
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: free2rock on February 16, 2011, 09:47:19 AM
Musicality and technique are part and parcel of music. So, as I said, song is king but equipment like any job or endeavor plays a huge role that people tend to diminish because they cannot afford it. Unfortunately, higher standards require higher costs and some people would want it otherwise because of their bruised ego.
Definitely true. We should not diminish the fact that quality equipment can help contribute to better performance and tone--as long as proper consideration for selecting better equipment is made.
Just to make sure I understand correctly, you're argument is--assuming all other factors (i.e., technique, musicality, phrasing, etc.) are isolated--then gear of higher quality (and most of the time, cost) would produce better tone. Valid point indeed.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 16, 2011, 10:12:13 AM
hmn8 said: "What you look for in gear is character and how it translate to your music, how it sits in a track. Sometimes that character comes from old, cheap gear and sometimes it comes from really expensive ones. It all depends on the type of music you're creating."
"Sometimes that character comes from old, cheap gear and sometimes it comes from really expensive ones. It all depends on the type of music you're creating."
"It all depends..."
Ika nga ni blue_buddha, kanya kanya lang yan. Now if we can't get along, or even agree to disagree, let's just leave each other alone. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 16, 2011, 10:12:31 AM
I will respectfully disagree with this. Somebody who says otherwise is not a hypocrite but an inexperienced musician. Yes, some will jump at the opportunity but those who don't are not hypocrite, they just know what they need to get the job done. What you look for in gear is character and how it translate to your music, how it sits in a track. Sometimes that character comes from old, cheap gear and sometimes it comes from really expensive ones. It all depends on the type of music you're creating. Would RATM's debut album be more influential if Tom used an orig 59 LP and a Dumble amp? Would Eric Johnson be able to create Ah Via Musicom w/ a first act guitar and a pignose amp? Would Marley's Redemption Song be more beautiful if he used a 20k acoustic? There is no measuring stick in art.
of course it goes without saying that when you upgrade, you will get the ones that are better suited to your taste. it's simple common sense. getting better gear doesn't simply mean getting the more expensive stuff out there. you still have to be in-line with your music. if you are a hardcore strat guy and you currently have a cheapo strat, your goal may be getting a better Japanese or American strat. why would you "upgrade" to an LP unless you want a different flavor? when a sniper upgrades, he upgrades with a better sniper rifle with more advanced scope or whatever. he won't "upgrade" to a bigger machine gun or something.
the scenarios you cited are all what-if's. no way to prove or disprove. some would argue that RATM will still sound the same in a Dumble and Eric Johnson can still kill a song with a small amp. point is, you wouldn't know what will happen if those scenarios actually happened.
Imagine if all forum members here own boutique equipment. High end guitars, amps, efx, the works. Do you think we would all get along by then? No! Because it is human nature to look for the greener pasture, to look for something better than the next guy. I'm sure there will be somebody who will buy the more expensive gear, brag about it and say "look, my stuff is better than yours" but there will also be some people that will say "what I have right now is enough for what I want to accomplish, now excuse me while I make some music".
of course we still won't get along - that's where the subjectivity comes in! only the inexperienced will buy more expensive gear to brag. those people are laughable.
those that stick with their gear and don't upgrade may say that they are contented. but how many are REALLY contented? i daresay that majority have other priorities in life which demand a bigger chunk of their budget than making music. it can be another hobby, family matters, what have you. that is respectable because they know their priorities. but only a small percentage of those people can actually claim that they are contented in the true sense of the word.
i still maintain the position that a truly experienced musician - when given the opportunity - will upgrade his gear to better and more expensive ones that he thinks will improve his music-making prowess.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: boybangs on February 16, 2011, 10:30:39 AM
Here is my side of the equation. I was using Jon Elegee's amp and he was using a cellphone to record the sound. So, if you think that its horrible tone then as a moron you should accept that it is because of Jon's lousy amp and lousy cellphone. Period. I have always said that people who think they should judge tone using cellphones are stupid and deaf -- that includes you samuel.:) Sorry guys.
With all due respect sir firemodel55, could you please post a better recorded demo of your Baker using your boutique amps and gears so as to erased the imprinted image of that infamous video in most of us forumers.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 16, 2011, 10:34:35 AM
i still maintain the position that a truly experienced musician - when given the opportunity - will upgrade his gear to better and more expensive ones that he thinks will improve his music-making prowess.
i don't think experience is a prerequisite for this, though. inexperience is just as big a factor when someone believes better gear can lead to better musicianship.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 16, 2011, 11:17:48 AM
i don't think experience is a prerequisite for this, though. inexperience is just as big a factor when someone believes better gear can lead to better musicianship.
true also. there will always be people who will be blinded by the price tag of a guitar, thinking that it would compensate for lack of skill. :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: tapslore on February 16, 2011, 11:31:15 AM
i don't think experience is a prerequisite for this, though. inexperience is just as big a factor when someone believes better gear can lead to better musicianship.
+1 i've spent a lot of money upgrading my gear, and I'm not a much better musician than when i started :-D. If only talent can be upgraded!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: geloboy25 on February 16, 2011, 12:09:33 PM
ngayon ko lang napanood to..
ang kulit nung body ng guitar nya :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 16, 2011, 12:36:33 PM
With all due respect sir firemodel55, could you please post a better recorded demo of your Baker using your boutique amps and gears so as to erased the imprinted image of that infamous video in most of us forumers.
Would you buy a guitar based on a recording or demo? It has to be felt and heard in person.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 16, 2011, 12:39:00 PM
Definitely true. We should not diminish the fact that quality equipment can help contribute to better performance and tone--as long as proper consideration for selecting better equipment is made.
Just to make sure I understand correctly, you're argument is--assuming all other factors (i.e., technique, musicality, phrasing, etc.) are isolated--then gear of higher quality (and most of the time, cost) would produce better tone. Valid point indeed.
Yup.. You understand correctly.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 16, 2011, 12:48:55 PM
hi sir would you think every musician would say the same regarding your suhr strat and your tokai strat in, for example, a blind test? even if they are subjected to cheap amps to the boutique ones?
just asking.. because i really do like blind tests because somewhat, if the brain knows something is much more expensive, it may tell the ears that its sounds better too..
just asking.. just my opinion..
I don't do blind tests because I test with the heart. The problem with 'EVERY' musician is a lot of them cannot hear or don't have it to determine which is a magical guitar. Don't need blind tests, I can easily tell you if your electrical is NOT magical and prove to you vis-a-vis the magical guitars in person. That's why I never care about recordings and youtube stuff. For example, in this video, hindi na-test ni Mr. plywood ang guitar sa clean. Moreover, gumamit pa siya ng Line 6 amp na alam natin na hindi transparent -- that is Line 6 makes all guitars sound like Line 6. Bakit ko masasabi iyan? Eh... may Line 6 ako na ginagamit ko lang pang click track. Walang sinabi ang Line 6 modeling sa tunay na tube amp na maganda. Paano ko alam? Kasi ang sinusubukan i-model ng Line 6 ay mayroon ako.
By the way, expensive for me is a real good sounding vintage 59.... would I buy it? If it sounded good, yup. I mean rather than buying a porsche or ferrari -- I'd rather have a good sounding and good looking real 59. Knowing that if it was produced today that it would only sell for a Gibson list price of about US$3500, would I still buy the good sounding 59? Yes, I would. After all, the vintage 59s are still around while the Lehman Brothers are gone. There are things more expensive in life and that includes going around trying to buy great sounding guitars at bargain or finding that golden Holy Grail Tokai or something.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: boybangs on February 16, 2011, 12:53:19 PM
Would you buy a guitar based on a recording or demo? It has to be felt and heard in person.
Nope. Just to rule out the factors you've mentioned in your argument that the video was captured by a mobile phone camera and the Baker through Elegee's amp.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 16, 2011, 01:24:41 PM
i still maintain the position that a truly experienced musician - when given the opportunity - will upgrade his gear to better and more expensive ones that he thinks will improve his music-making prowess.
I agree with the better gear, and disagree to the more expensive ones.
it just so happen that better instruments are often more expensive because of some factors.
and an expensive guitar aint always good sounding..
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 16, 2011, 01:29:49 PM
come on guys wag kayo magtalo talo....for me, i can only afford kung anong laman lang ng wallet ko at kung anong "best" na pwede at kasya sa budget to satisfy myself. There's no competition here. if you hate his sound, show a little RESPECT na lang and keep it to yourself whatever yung sa panrinig mo ay ayaw mo. i need "better" gear na not so expensive than "best" gears na sobrang mahal. practicality anyway
sir firemodel mawalang galang lang po, ano bang meron sa tenga mo na magical na wala kami? magikin mo naman yung gitara ko hehe peace
kung mayaman lang ako bibili ako nang 2 gitarang pinapakita sa video then susunugin ko yung isa hahahaha
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 16, 2011, 02:02:29 PM
come on guys wag kayo magtalo talo....for me, i can only afford kung anong laman lang ng wallet ko at kung anong "best" na pwede at kasya sa budget to satisfy myself. There's no competition here. if you hate his sound, show a little RESPECT na lang and keep it to yourself whatever yung sa panrinig mo ay ayaw mo. i need "better" gear na not so expensive than "best" gears na sobrang mahal. practicality anyway
sir firemodel mawalang galang lang po, ano bang meron sa tenga mo na magical na wala kami? magikin mo naman yung gitara ko hehe peace
kung mayaman lang ako bibili ako nang 2 gitarang pinapakita sa video then susunugin ko yung isa hahahaha
sir pwede magtalo basta wag magaaway.. discussion forum ito..
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: music_adik_to on February 16, 2011, 02:06:44 PM
I agree with the better gear, and disagree to the more expensive ones.
it just so happen that better instruments are often more expensive because of some factors.
and an expensive guitar aint always good sounding..
+1
wala man akong expensive gears katulad ni sir firemodel55 at ng iba... im still happy and able naman to produce good tones and express my emotions and feelings sa mga mumurahin kong kagamitan...
once you reach naman siguro ang maturity ng tenga, hahanapin mo talaga yung tunog na iniisip at naiimagine mo... and mahahanap mo yung tunog na iyon, hindi lang sa mamahaling gear, pwede ding sa murang halaga... :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 16, 2011, 02:09:33 PM
I agree with the better gear, and disagree to the more expensive ones.
it just so happen that better instruments are often more expensive because of some factors.
and an expensive guitar aint always good sounding..
agree with you too. but all things being equal, a more expensive guitar is made up of more expensive and higher quality parts - hence the premium on the price - making it a better guitar than more cheap ones. again, all things being equal.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 16, 2011, 02:11:20 PM
agree agree! :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: music_adik_to on February 16, 2011, 02:13:18 PM
agree with you too. but all things being equal, a more expensive guitar is made up of more expensive and higher quality parts - hence the premium on the price - making it a better guitar than more cheap ones. again, all things being equal.
case closed... haha
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 16, 2011, 02:21:21 PM
wala man akong expensive gears katulad ni sir firemodel55 at ng iba... im still happy and able naman to produce good tones and express my emotions and feelings sa mga mumurahin kong kagamitan...
once you reach naman siguro ang maturity ng tenga, hahanapin mo talaga yung tunog na iniisip at naiimagine mo... and mahahanap mo yung tunog na iyon, hindi lang sa mamahaling gear, pwede ding sa murang halaga... :-)
it's a never ending search for great tones. even manufacturers keep on improving and upgrading. it's ok sometimes to buy expensive things that you really really want at paghihirapan but again it doesnt always have to be that expensive. you just have to be practical in some other ways di ba sir? all roads are not made to be straight, kung may makita kang mas mura at ok e di kumaliwa ka hehe
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: raybrig on February 16, 2011, 02:24:50 PM
it's a never ending search for great tones. even manufacturers keep on improving and upgrading. it's ok sometimes to buy expensive things that you really really want at paghihirapan but again it doesnt always have to be that expensive. you just have to be practical in some other ways di ba sir? all roads are not made to be straight, kung may makita kang mas mura at ok e di kumaliwa ka hehe
hmn8 said: "What you look for in gear is character and how it translate to your music, how it sits in a track. Sometimes that character comes from old, cheap gear and sometimes it comes from really expensive ones. It all depends on the type of music you're creating."
"Sometimes that character comes from old, cheap gear and sometimes it comes from really expensive ones. It all depends on the type of music you're creating."
"It all depends..."
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 16, 2011, 02:55:49 PM
So whats the point? If you can cite one specific context wherein a known guitarist uses a pignose, I can provide the other perspective that there are more known guitarists to who the soldano SLO 100 than a pginose because it sounds better. Unless you are telling me that Zappa is superior to everybody else, I am within my rights to cite a counter example. THATS THE POINT.
What price level do you define as cheap? What price level do you define as ultra expensive? Ang pignose na sinsabi mo ay mas mahal pa ngayon kaysa ibang practice amp na gawang china na mabibili sa JB. As I observe audiences, technic is just around 20% of the equation for them. The 80% is sound timbre. Why? Because they are tired off guitarist wanking off and sounding bad. Of course the song is more important than anything else. Don't you notice that only guitarists clap at solos while most of the audience who are non-guitarists are happy that the solo is over? Specially those with bad tone. I can tell you that the audience hates the raspy distortion coming out of multi-effects and excessive crash cymbals. Those are the two things that shut off people's ears.
Lets put it into context... how often did Zappa use his pignose in vis-a-vis his other expensive stuff? If you are saying that he used the Pignose because of its sound quality, so why does he also use the other high end stuff?
Your counter-example, if that's what you wanna call it, wasn't necessary. It ain't needed. The guy was just merely saying that Frank used a Pignose for recording his tracks but still managed to produce great tone out of it. We all know that there's more to that "counter-example" of yours than meets the eye.
Yes, sa ngayon, e talagang mas mahal na ang Pignose compared sa mga practice amps na gawang China na mabibili sa JB. Pero iba yung ngayon sa panahon ni Frank Zappa.
He used his other expensive stuff for variation. Just like any other professional musician would do. Steve Vai uses his Carvin Legacy and a Marshall live and in recording, y'know what I mean?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 16, 2011, 03:08:48 PM
di niya kelangan mag hinay hinay kasi may mga nagtatanggol naman sa mga posts niya e. hehehe. if he was capable more tact in these forums, we should've already seen it years ago.
Your counter-example, if that's what you wanna call it, wasn't necessary. It ain't needed. The guy was just merely saying that Frank used a Pignose for recording his tracks but still managed to produce great tone out of it. We all know that there's more to that "counter-example" of yours than meets the eye.
Yes, sa ngayon, e talagang mas mahal na ang Pignose compared sa mga practice amps na gawang China na mabibili sa JB. Pero iba yung ngayon sa panahon ni Frank Zappa.
He used his other expensive stuff for variation. Just like any other professional musician would do. Steve Vai uses his Carvin Legacy and a Marshall live and in recording, y'know what I mean?
amp na china made? don't wanna try it hehehe wag naman bumaba sa meron tayo na maganda na. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 16, 2011, 08:14:22 PM
agree with you too. but all things being equal, a more expensive guitar is made up of more expensive and higher quality parts - hence the premium on the price - making it a better guitar than more cheap ones. again, all things being equal.
agree bro..
but sometimes i wonder.. there are certain builds using top of the line, most expensive woods, by the best luthier, with top of the line hardwares and all.. yet the guitar won't sound that good as expected..
well good thing there is still a mystery.. or else we end up having the same guitars provided we can afford it :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 16, 2011, 09:11:31 PM
agree with you too. but all things being equal, a more expensive guitar is made up of more expensive and higher quality parts - hence the premium on the price - making it a better guitar than more cheap ones. again, all things being equal.
Maxi, yes, more expensive guitar = better guitar in terms of premium parts and construction... Pero not necessarily = better tone. Daming real world examples of expensive and high quality MIA guitars that didnt sound as good as more humble and cheaper MIJs.
We're not talking about absolutes here. Lets just accept that there are exceptions. Yun lang naman point nung OP.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 16, 2011, 11:15:03 PM
but sometimes i wonder.. there are certain builds using top of the line, most expensive woods, by the best luthier, with top of the line hardwares and all.. yet the guitar won't sound that good as expected..
well good thing there is still a mystery.. or else we end up having the same guitars provided we can afford it :-D
it's that mystery that keeps us guitarists searching and experimenting. :-D
Maxi, yes, more expensive guitar = better guitar in terms of premium parts and construction... Pero not necessarily = better tone. Daming real world examples of expensive and high quality MIA guitars that didnt sound as good as more humble and cheaper MIJs.
We're not talking about absolutes here. Lets just accept that there are exceptions. Yun lang naman point nung OP.
yup tama..there is definitely no room for absolutes when it comes to guitar building. which makes it a lot more interesting and closer to the heart of the guitarist so to speak. the perfect match comes when a guitarist discovers the mystery within his guitar. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: hmn8 on February 17, 2011, 12:27:16 AM
agree with you too. but all things being equal, a more expensive guitar is made up of more expensive and higher quality parts - hence the premium on the price - making it a better guitar than more cheap ones. again, all things being equal.
What are those things that are equal? If I give two identical parts: bare wood, electronics, hardware etc., and give it to two luthiers, one is John Suhr and the other one is Elegee and they will be making exactly the same guitar. Basically all they need to do is cut/shape the body and neck, put the guitar together. You will have two exact instruments that will be priced differently. Jon's will definitely be cheaper but is the more expensive one better? No! If we consider all things equal then the premium on the price goes to the cost of labor/ reputation of builder not on the parts.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: hmn8 on February 17, 2011, 01:05:40 AM
of course it goes without saying that when you upgrade, you will get the ones that are better suited to your taste. it's simple common sense. getting better gear doesn't simply mean getting the more expensive stuff out there. you still have to be in-line with your music. if you are a hardcore strat guy and you currently have a cheapo strat, your goal may be getting a better Japanese or American strat. why would you "upgrade" to an LP unless you want a different flavor? when a sniper upgrades, he upgrades with a better sniper rifle with more advanced scope or whatever. he won't "upgrade" to a bigger machine gun or something.
the scenarios you cited are all what-if's. no way to prove or disprove. some would argue that RATM will still sound the same in a Dumble and Eric Johnson can still kill a song with a small amp. point is, you wouldn't know what will happen if those scenarios actually happened.
of course we still won't get along - that's where the subjectivity comes in! only the inexperienced will buy more expensive gear to brag. those people are laughable.
those that stick with their gear and don't upgrade may say that they are contented. but how many are REALLY contented? i daresay that majority have other priorities in life which demand a bigger chunk of their budget than making music. it can be another hobby, family matters, what have you. that is respectable because they know their priorities. but only a small percentage of those people can actually claim that they are contented in the true sense of the word.
I think you missed my point. All I was saying is that those people that are not interested in the latest and greatest even if they can afford it are not hypocrites like you stated nor are they contented for the rest of their lives but merely they have the knowledge and confidence to know their tools to get the job done. There are tons of those people, maybe not in this forum but in the real professional world. The reason I cited those scenarios is not because I was interested in the outcome but rather why did those people chose those gears/tools when they have access to better more expensive stuff just as you stated we musicians are inclined to do.
i still maintain the position that a truly experienced musician - when given the opportunity - will upgrade his gear to better and more expensive ones that he thinks will improve his music-making prowess.
I think that's a better statement with less emphasis on the word expensive. IMO I will say that most if not all will TRY the new product out there given the opportunity just out of curiosity. Hey, what happened to those guys here who "upgraded" to the Klon? :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: omarrodriguezvic on February 17, 2011, 02:47:55 AM
Dude I feel you'll get even more "constipated" when you have your gear refretted by someone who claim to do it in "2" hours... gusto mo bang mag bend sa fret "mala lata ng sardinas na binuksan ng kutsilyo" hehehe... na try konang mag pa refret sa sablay... at sablay talaga.
buti nalang dinalako muna sa isa pang "Ok" na luthier...
then finally binalik ko sa "original master" buti hindi nakahalata.... and yun bumalik ang "mojo" hehe
peace
Ok yan sa original master. Yung sablay na luthier eh master din. master sardines. Pa pm din ako thanks!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 08:36:40 PM
What are those things that are equal? If I give two identical parts: bare wood, electronics, hardware etc., and give it to two luthiers, one is John Suhr and the other one is Elegee and they will be making exactly the same guitar. Basically all they need to do is cut/shape the body and neck, put the guitar together. You will have two exact instruments that will be priced differently. Jon's will definitely be cheaper but is the more expensive one better? No! If we consider all things equal then the premium on the price goes to the cost of labor/ reputation of builder not on the parts.
Oh thats an oversimplification...
John Suhr would know when to use a piece a wood, he rejects a lot of planks. Jon would not know when NOT to use a piece of wood -- I can truly say that non of John Suhr's guitars are as heavy as Jon's heaviest guitars. John winds his own pickups from scratch, Jon uses Korean pickups with some modifications at best or at worst tries to make his own that sound ngo ngo, John Suhr uses Gotoh produced to his specification made to maximize tone and resonance, Gotoh does not even deal with Jon on a personal level. Shall I go on? John Suhr has a super thin nitro finish that maximizes tone, while Jon still uses thick finish that I have no idea as to what it does to tone and resonance. John Suhrs makes consistent guitars in terms of physical properties and shapes. Jon's shapes are not consistent. Finally, the Suhr guys know which guitar has mojo. Jon does not even know when a guitar has mojo.
But of course, mas affordable si Jon and that works to his favor. Mahal ang John Suhr pero malaking layo rin ng quality and attention to detail at tunog ng John Suhr sa elegee. You get what you pay for really...
I own two John Suhrs and even up to this day, elegee guitars are only but 30% in terms of quality and sound of the Suhrs even with so called aftermarket parts.
By the way, I never liked the Klon and I never bought one BECAUSE i dont have a good sounding Fender Deluxe Reverb or Fender Twin Reverb. Unfortunately, I think Jon needed the Klon more than I because of his modified 70s twin reverb which he eventually sold. So, if I were you before you criticize the Klon, make sure you know for WHAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE IT WAS DESIGNED for.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 09:01:09 PM
come on guys wag kayo magtalo talo....for me, i can only afford kung anong laman lang ng wallet ko at kung anong "best" na pwede at kasya sa budget to satisfy myself. There's no competition here. if you hate his sound, show a little RESPECT na lang and keep it to yourself whatever yung sa panrinig mo ay ayaw mo. i need "better" gear na not so expensive than "best" gears na sobrang mahal. practicality anyway
sir firemodel mawalang galang lang po, ano bang meron sa tenga mo na magical na wala kami? magikin mo naman yung gitara ko hehe peace
kung mayaman lang ako bibili ako nang 2 gitarang pinapakita sa video then susunugin ko yung isa hahahaha
As someone said, some have it and most don't. Kagaya ng beauty, some have it and most don't. Law of nature I guess.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: free2rock on February 17, 2011, 09:04:22 PM
What are those things that are equal? If I give two identical parts: bare wood, electronics, hardware etc., and give it to two luthiers, one is John Suhr and the other one is Elegee and they will be making exactly the same guitar. Basically all they need to do is cut/shape the body and neck, put the guitar together. You will have two exact instruments that will be priced differently. Jon's will definitely be cheaper but is the more expensive one better? No! If we consider all things equal then the premium on the price goes to the cost of labor/ reputation of builder not on the parts.
That's actually assuming John Suhr and Elegee are using the same equipment, same quantifiable knowledge, experience and experience in guitar building. It's like giving two artists two canvases, same set of paint and brushes then let them compete by making a better Mona Lisa.
There are so many factors to consider.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 09:13:20 PM
Your counter-example, if that's what you wanna call it, wasn't necessary. It ain't needed. The guy was just merely saying that Frank used a Pignose for recording his tracks but still managed to produce great tone out of it. We all know that there's more to that "counter-example" of yours than meets the eye.
(Linalagay ko lang sa context na mas maganda talaga hands down ang SLO kaysa Pignose and unfortunately, you or I am NOT Frank Zappa. Personally, I prefer the sound of other guitarists as great who don't use a Pignose.)
Yes, sa ngayon, e talagang mas mahal na ang Pignose compared sa mga practice amps na gawang China na mabibili sa JB. Pero iba yung ngayon sa panahon ni Frank Zappa.
(So do you think Frank Zappa will plug into a China practice amp today if he were alive?)
He used his other expensive stuff for variation. Just like any other professional musician would do. Steve Vai uses his Carvin Legacy and a Marshall live and in recording, y'know what I mean?
(Talaga? Why do you think Ben Fargen was pulled in to help in the design on the second Carvin Legacy? This is the story. One fine day, I decided to call Mr. Cliff Cultreri on the phone and we were discussing some things. Unfortunately, we were being interrupted occasionally because Mr. Steve Vai was on the other line. So, I asked Cliff what Steve was concerned about, and he told me that Steve was happy that Cliff had hooked him up with Ben Fargen to help design his new Carvin legacy -- series two I think. So, you know what I mean now? Your so called heroes either don't use their gear exactly as seen or by God they use boutique amps at home. Its also the same story with Two Rock and Joe Satriani. If you read the liner notes of the new album, there is a word of thanks by Joe to Two Rock and Cliff Cultreri. By the way as I said before, Joe Satriani really loved the Two Rock J2 and was asking Two Rock to product a 100 watt version for touring -- I think Two Rock made him a 100 watt power amp instead which was slaved to the J2 signature - DESPITE JOE ENDORSING MARSHALL TODAY.)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 09:18:48 PM
That's actually assuming John Suhr and Elegee are using the same equipment, same quantifiable knowledge, experience and experience in guitar building. It's like giving two artists two canvases, same set of paint and brushes then let them compete by making a better Mona Lisa.
There are so many factors to consider.
My personal opinion -- thats not ever going to happen because John Suhr has amassed so much knowledge and experience that elegee is unfortunately not exposed to or will be exposed to at the same level of his remaining life. Makikita mo sa mga produkto nila. Previously, I said that baka maka habol si Elegee but at this point, I don't think so. Besides, I think he is making surfboards and skateboard now plus... iyung dating assistant niya kung saan siya heavily dependent sa trabaho ay lumipat na sa isang bagong luthier down south (tsismis lang iyon, so I wouldn't really know.) Besides, the better Mona Lisa is here -- Suhr beats out elegee.
Now ewan ko ang Rasmus by Suhr but the way I see it initially medyo angat pa rin ang Rasmus.
But one thing I can say for both, hindi naman talaga nila gawa their guitars 100% personally. Pareho silang may assistant. Kaso ang assistant yata ni John Suhr ay mas magaling sa assistant ni Jon.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 17, 2011, 09:22:37 PM
John Suhr has a super thin nitro finish that maximizes tone, while Jon still uses thick finish that I have no idea as to what it does to tone and resonance. John Suhrs makes consistent guitars in terms of physical properties and shapes. Jon's shapes are not consistent. Finally, the Suhr guys know which guitar has mojo. Jon does not even know when a guitar has mojo.
just to clarify not all, S1 - S4 models have poly finishes..and so are the rest but sanded down so they dont feel as thick..
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 09:26:04 PM
but sometimes i wonder.. there are certain builds using top of the line, most expensive woods, by the best luthier, with top of the line hardwares and all.. yet the guitar won't sound that good as expected..
(Yup that has occurred to me too. Unfortunately, there's also an upside. When the stars all align, some of the best luthiers produce the best instruments ever that will just touch you in the heart that even the best efforts of mediocre luthiers cannot hope to reach. Parang dalawang normal curve iyan with the best luthier having a normal curve thats either higher or more to the right. )
well good thing there is still a mystery.. or else we end up having the same guitars provided we can afford it :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 09:29:36 PM
just to clarify not all, S1 - S4 models have poly finishes..and so are the rest but sanded down so they dont feel as thick..
I just wanted to point out that Jon Elegee does not even have a nitro option. Elegee's weakness has always been finish kaya halos panay natural siya na may makakapal na see thru coating. Ang panget talaga ng mga solid colors niya.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 09:36:34 PM
I just want to make it clear that for the price, Elegee's work might meet your standards and that's fine. But in now way does it equal the more expensive American and European luthiers.
Its OK AND ACCEPTABLE to own average or affordable gear. But its NOT OK to say that it equals the more expensive gear. There are people other than myself who have gone thru both average and affordable gear (its actually a prerequisite to know before you start spending money on more expensive gear) before moving on to boutique gear. Some even more or less from time to time dabble or buy production line instruments, effects, etc. But quite a number of us are honest enough to say based on experience and our use of certain boutique gear that the sound better than cheaper or inexpensive gear. There are exceptions -- some expensive gear really sound bad too -- but the GENERAL RULE OF THUMB is that expensive gear sounds much better than cheap gear. And if you are looking for the holy grails of tone, boutique is where you should start whether Robert Johnson is still alive or dead.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 17, 2011, 10:14:59 PM
ITS THE INDIAN NOT THE PANA :evil:
mga master ano ba pinakamahal po na gitara sa buong mundo? bakit yung luthier nun hindi na lang niya angkinin at ibebenta pa sa iba? siya na sana ang may pinakamagandang tone heheh
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 10:17:12 PM
mga master ano ba pinakamahal po na gitara sa buong mundo? bakit yung luthier nun hindi na lang niya angkinin at ibebenta pa sa iba? siya na sana ang may pinakamagandang tone heheh
Kaso ang magagaling na Indian ay namimili pa ng pana... manood ka ng history at discovery channel. Haven't lived that long to find out. Pero this I can say, masasabi ko kung ang gitara mo ay isa sa pinakamahal ng gitara sa buong mundo... at kung ito ay may magandang 'tone'... heh heh
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 10:21:05 PM
mga master ano ba pinakamahal po na gitara sa buong mundo? bakit yung luthier nun hindi na lang niya angkinin at ibebenta pa sa iba? siya na sana ang may pinakamagandang tone heheh
tama... buti nalang cowboy ako, lol :mrgreen:
yun blackie ata ni Clapton pinakamahal...
nakakatawa nitro na pinagmamalaki sa electric, 2nd best option lang sa acoustic... go Varnish... hahaha
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 10:26:56 PM
nakakatawa nitro na pinagmamalaki sa electric, 2nd best option lang sa acoustic... go Varnish... hahaha
Ang problema sa blackie, ang luthier niyon si Clapton... siya nag desisyon which combination of neck and body.... heh heh
Talaga? Eh kung varnish ang ginamit sa tunay na bursts di ang panget ng itsura nila ngayon... probably walang value at walang checkering with the wrong or bad looking patina. bwa hah hah
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
but sometimes i wonder.. there are certain builds using top of the line, most expensive woods, by the best luthier, with top of the line hardwares and all.. yet the guitar won't sound that good as expected..
well good thing there is still a mystery.. or else we end up having the same guitars provided we can afford it :-D
Most true... kasi naman sa electrics, sukat na yan eh.. pipili kalang ng kahoy, then build it to the right measurement... sa acoustic/archtop pwede yan itono, mas manipis na top, mas tapered/scalloped yun bracing etc... kaya mas bilib ako sa luthier ng acoustic/archtop kesa electrics... mas may art at skill involeved, hindi pili lang ng kahoy... even woods that have great tap tone may chance na hindi maging maganda tunog....
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 17, 2011, 10:30:48 PM
Kaso ang magagaling na Indian ay namimili pa ng pana... manood ka ng history at discovery channel. Haven't lived that long to find out. Pero this I can say, masasabi ko kung ang gitara mo ay isa sa pinakamahal ng gitara sa buong mundo... at kung ito ay may magandang 'tone'... heh heh
si robinhood ba namili pa ng pana? although hindi siya indian ha, pano niya pinili e nakasabit lang sa likod niya yung mga arrows. sabagay mayaman si robinhood tinatapon niya lang yung pana. di katulad ng sundalo pag naubusan ng baril sa gera namumulot lang. kung mayaman siguro lahat tinatapon lang pati gitara
yung gitara ng demonyo dun sa pick of destiny mahal din siguro yun, joke
kidding aside...mostly yung high end guitars may magagandang tunog infairness
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 17, 2011, 10:35:43 PM
I just wanted to point out that Jon Elegee does not even have a nitro option. Elegee's weakness has always been finish kaya halos panay natural siya na may makakapal na see thru coating. Ang panget talaga ng mga solid colors niya.
options are good, but my point is on the nitro vs poly finishes as long as its used right it doesnt matter that much for tone..
scott H's inquiry to John S.
Quote
Scott, It's all about the thickness and hardness of the paint, not the actual paint. Nitro lacquer gets gummy and soft when it gets hot, also acids in your sweat will eat nitro. You've had both polyester and acrylic lacquer on your guitars, acrylic on the orange one. The acrylic is the most like old lacquer but polyester when sprayed thin sounds the same.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 10:35:54 PM
Ang problema sa blackie, ang luthier niyon si Clapton... siya nag desisyon which combination of neck and body.... heh heh
Talaga? Eh kung varnish ang ginamit sa tunay na bursts di ang panget ng itsura nila ngayon... probably walang value at walang checkering with the wrong or bad looking patina. bwa hah hah
baka wala masyadong difference kung varnish sa electrics... unless semi hollow or hollow body... kung varnish ang naging norm sa lespauls im sure ganun pa din value nun... hndi naman sila mahal dahi sa finish check.., actually if you find one w/o finish checks or pristine, yun ang mas mahal...
mahal lang naman blackie kasi collectible... supply and demand parin nag didikta ng prices....
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 10:37:55 PM
Most true... kasi naman sa electrics, sukat na yan eh.. pipili kalang ng kahoy, then build it to the right measurement... sa acoustic/archtop pwede yan itono, mas manipis na top, mas tapered/scalloped yun bracing etc... kaya mas bilib ako sa luthier ng acoustic/archtop kesa electrics... mas may art at skill involeved, hindi pili lang ng kahoy... even woods that have great tap tone may chance na hindi maging maganda tunog....
And thats why I decided to order from Gil Yaron to test the theory that a human being can do it para sa electric ... mas bilib ako dahil kung magawa niya I believe na mas mahirap na pumili ng kahoy na may tone kaysa sa art and skill involved sa pag gawa ng acoustic or archtop.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 17, 2011, 10:41:32 PM
mahal lang naman blackie kasi collectible... supply and demand parin nag didikta ng prices....
sabagay almost all collectibles are expensive but doesnt produce the tone na super ganda. as the thinking ng businessman, he forgets all about whats within the guitar. he only see's the return. supply and demand siguro nga
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 10:43:14 PM
And thats why I decided to order from Gil Yaron to test the theory that a human being can do it para sa electric ... mas bilib ako dahil kung magawa niya I believe na mas mahirap na pumili ng kahoy na may tone kaysa sa art and skill involved sa pag gawa ng acoustic or archtop.
dyan ako hindi agree... iba ang craftsmanship involved sa classical/flatop/archtop making.... pipili ka ng kahoy, itotono mo pa... yan Yaron barya lang yan pag bibili ka ng Monteleone etc :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 17, 2011, 10:43:34 PM
options are good, but my point is on the nitro vs poly finishes as long as its used right it doesnt matter that much for tone..
scott H's inquiry to John S.
So why do you think he offers nitro on his classic series if it does not affect the sound? By the way, if you look closely -- to my understanding, what John Suhr is saying that sounds the same when sprayed thinly is his comparison of ACRYLIC and POLYESTER and NOT his comparison of NITRO LACQUER and POLYESTER. And John Suhr goes on to use the word MOST LIKE to Lacquer with reference to Acrylic. They aren't exactly the same.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: rednas on February 17, 2011, 10:52:20 PM
Nice thread. And agree ako sa observation ng iba na electronics makes a lot of difference in mid gain / high gain electric guitar tone.
I found the discussion regarding use of expensive gear informative. I agree that we all want or probably dream to own one of those boutique gears. But our wants do not always translate to our needs, hence you can see a lot of players who can afford boutique, still go for standard/common gear. Going back to the topic - I believe that "Great tones" can be arrived at using average/standard (I don't want to say cheap...) gear. Mas madali nga lang makukuha kung boutique route (as implied by those with experience - sadly I haven't tried yet) - but with hard work and luck we can also get that same great tone. Real world examples are professionals still using standard gear for recording. If great tone was exclusive for expensive gear - pare pareho na malamang ang gamit ng lahat...
Since tone is subjective, can anyone point us to some examples of "great tone" using boutique/expensive gear? Probably a good contrast to the video on the original post. When I think about GREAT guitar tones, I can only think about particular artists who all MOSTLY use standard guitars (strat, LP, Tele etc.) and gears. Are there any recent artists that is universally accepted to have "great tone" using boutique gear?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 17, 2011, 10:56:36 PM
si robinhood ba namili pa ng pana? although hindi siya indian ha, pano niya pinili e nakasabit lang sa likod niya yung mga arrows. sabagay mayaman si robinhood tinatapon niya lang yung pana. di katulad ng sundalo pag naubusan ng baril sa gera namumulot lang. kung mayaman siguro lahat tinatapon lang pati gitara
yung gitara ng demonyo dun sa pick of destiny mahal din siguro yun, joke
kidding aside...mostly yung high end guitars may magagandang tunog infairness
Siguro naman namili ang ng pana si Robinhood dahil nakasalalay ang buhay niya sa pana... ikaw rin siguro kung kasama ka sa merrymen ni Robin baka ma-insulto ka pa ni robin kung palpak ang pana mo. Madali lang... pinili muna ni Robin ang mga araws na daldalhin niya bago niya isabit sa likod niya. Hindi lang tinatapon ang pana, ginamit pa ni Robin panangga sa mga espada. Hindi pa kasi na-imbento ang skateboard noon eh. Mukhang sobrang laro mo ng HALO. Mahirap yata sumugod para mamulot ng baril kasi baka matamaan ka muna na bala -- bakit kaya 300 plus rounds ng bala ang mga dala ng mga sundalo kung madali mamulot.
Eto nga nakakatawa si Pinas eh, dapat na itapon ang gitara pinipilit pang katunog ng mga kilalang gitarista.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 17, 2011, 11:00:10 PM
Nice thread. And agree ako sa observation ng iba na electronics makes a lot of difference in mid gain / high gain electric guitar tone.
I found the discussion regarding use of expensive gear informative. I agree that we all want or probably dream to own one of those boutique gears. But our wants do not always translate to our needs, hence you can see a lot of players who can afford boutique, still go for standard/common gear. Going back to the topic - I believe that "Great tones" can be arrived at using average/standard (I don't want to say cheap...) gear. Mas madali nga lang makukuha kung boutique route (as implied by those with experience - sadly I haven't tried yet) - but with hard work and luck we can also get that same great tone. Real world examples are professionals still using standard gear for recording. If great tone was exclusive for expensive gear - pare pareho na malamang ang gamit ng lahat...
Since tone is subjective, can anyone point us to some examples of "great tone" using boutique/expensive gear? Probably a good contrast to the video on the original post. When I think about GREAT guitar tones, I can only think about particular artists who all MOSTLY use standard guitars (strat, LP, Tele etc.) and gears. Are there any recent artists that is universally accepted to have "great tone" using boutique gear?
may standards ba para masabi na yung tone mo ay GREAT or parang line kapag lumagpas ka na sa ganung line e masasabi na great tone na yung gear mo? hindi na ba talga kaya abutin ng average guitar ang tunog ng expensive guitar? mejo dun lang ako parang nalalabuan.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 11:00:34 PM
bala kelangan ko... cowboy e :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 11:04:07 PM
back to topic... try to search youtube for boutique gear.... sa mahilig sa flattop, archtop, classical try gourment guitars... makikita niyo gano ka OC mga luthiers... from pagpili ng wood, sa glue, finish... etc... very interesting... try to look for Monteleone, Pagelli, Somogyi, Kim Walker, TJ thompson, Borges... hanep :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 11:09:05 PM
may standards ba para masabi na yung tone mo ay GREAT or parang line kapag lumagpas ka na sa ganung line e masasabi na great tone na yung gear mo? hindi na ba talga kaya abutin ng average guitar ang tunog ng expensive guitar? mejo dun lang ako parang nalalabuan.
you have to experience it to know it.... :wink:
kanyakanyang standards yan... kung di ka nakasubok ng mga mamahalin or wala kang exposure... im sure ok na mga nasubukan mo... ignorance is bliss... mahirap mgaing sira ulo na hanap ng hanap ng "holy grail" mukhang kung anu pinakaabot ng budget yun ang "hg"... pag mas may pera na ulit, try nanaman ng mas mahal, iba nanaman ang "hg"... and so on and so forth... ganyan mga adik... it takes one to know one :wink:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 11:10:56 PM
baka being staisfied is bliss din :-D
sabi kasi sa national geographic... be... curious... bwahahaha :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 17, 2011, 11:11:40 PM
Siguro naman namili ang ng pana si Robinhood dahil nakasalalay ang buhay niya sa pana... ikaw rin siguro kung kasama ka sa merrymen ni Robin baka ma-insulto ka pa ni robin kung palpak ang pana mo. Madali lang... pinili muna ni Robin ang mga araws na daldalhin niya bago niya isabit sa likod niya. Hindi lang tinatapon ang pana, ginamit pa ni Robin panangga sa mga espada. Hindi pa kasi na-imbento ang skateboard noon eh. Mukhang sobrang laro mo ng HALO. Mahirap yata sumugod para mamulot ng baril kasi baka matamaan ka muna na bala -- bakit kaya 300 plus rounds ng bala ang mga dala ng mga sundalo kung madali mamulot.
Eto nga nakakatawa si Pinas eh, dapat na itapon ang gitara pinipilit pang katunog ng mga kilalang gitarista.
i dont know kung namimili nga siya ng pana. kung ganun kagreat nga si robinhood lahat na na talaga ng pana niya e hindi patapon. kung ako si robinhood hindi ko sasalagin yung espada ng arrow kasi high-end yung arrow ko, magagasgasan lang pantusok lang yun. he's one lucky dude db. i dont play video games, nakita ko lang sa action films na namumulot ng baril kapag naubusan ng bala hehehehe
anyway back to topic. gusto ko makaexperience ng mamahaling gitara at amps. parang ganun ba yun once you're one step ahead wala nang balikan sa dating gear
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: strat62 on February 17, 2011, 11:12:21 PM
Bigay mo na ES175 noh!!!!!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 11:16:31 PM
pocha may humirit pa,,, sige pag may monteleone na ako :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: strat62 on February 17, 2011, 11:20:35 PM
Ganda ng Somogyi.. Dapat subukan ni Alex para ma-adik.. :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 17, 2011, 11:22:56 PM
nangatong pa... im sure magagndahan siya... sa goodall nga muntik siya bumili sa sg.......... yun goodall ko na kay doc paul na, very nice guitar
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: strat62 on February 17, 2011, 11:31:51 PM
Alex, tigilan mo na yang Baker mo.. Mas maganda yung bebenta ni Dave sa akin na es175. Di ba Dave?? hahahahah
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Letour on February 17, 2011, 11:35:27 PM
It's beginning to look a like a word war between magical vs. cheap gear.
All I know that is there is no such thing as Magic. I know that for a fact.
Don't you watch Magic's Greatest Secrets Finally Revealed? All the tricks are explained.
:-D 8-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 17, 2011, 11:42:43 PM
para matapos to... sinong gagawa ng sounclip ala blind test tapos boboto tyo kung ano dun mga low end VS high end na gamit. BOTH Guitars and AMPS. Dapat perfect score. GO! :evil: ng makita natin kung totoong may golden ears dito sa Pilipinas :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Rmansh on February 17, 2011, 11:49:44 PM
And thats why I decided to order from Gil Yaron to test the theory that a human being can do it para sa electric ... mas bilib ako dahil kung magawa niya I believe na mas mahirap na pumili ng kahoy na may tone kaysa sa art and skill involved sa pag gawa ng acoustic or archtop.
ano na nga palang balita sa Gil Yaron build mo sir? excited na kami :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 17, 2011, 11:50:17 PM
para matapos to... sinong gagawa ng sounclip ala blind test tapos boboto tyo kung ano dun mga low end VS high end na gamit. BOTH Guitars and AMPS. Dapat perfect score. GO! :evil: ng makita natin kung totoong may golden ears dito sa Pilipinas :lol:
meron dito may magical ears diba? can they do magic rin sa mga low end gears ba?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 17, 2011, 11:56:08 PM
So why do you think he offers nitro on his classic series if it does not affect the sound? By the way, if you look closely -- to my understanding, what John Suhr is saying that sounds the same when sprayed thinly is his comparison of ACRYLIC and POLYESTER and NOT his comparison of NITRO LACQUER and POLYESTER. And John Suhr goes on to use the word MOST LIKE to Lacquer with reference to Acrylic. They aren't exactly the same.
its offered because people want it.. i dont think there is a need to read between the lines because again its all about what the client wants, btw did you know that a custom to start at the very basic price of 2300 will have a poly coat and 3 pcs of alder? just read his first line its not about the paint its about the use of it..
@farseer yes because you want nitro you can have a guitar like that..
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 18, 2011, 02:52:15 AM
para matapos to... sinong gagawa ng sounclip ala blind test tapos boboto tyo kung ano dun mga low end VS high end na gamit. BOTH Guitars and AMPS. Dapat perfect score. GO! :evil: ng makita natin kung totoong may golden ears dito sa Pilipinas :lol:
even if may kumagat, i bet it'll still achieve nothing.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 18, 2011, 04:03:21 AM
Nice thread. And agree ako sa observation ng iba na electronics makes a lot of difference in mid gain / high gain electric guitar tone.
I found the discussion regarding use of expensive gear informative. I agree that we all want or probably dream to own one of those boutique gears. But our wants do not always translate to our needs, hence you can see a lot of players who can afford boutique, still go for standard/common gear. Going back to the topic - I believe that "Great tones" can be arrived at using average/standard (I don't want to say cheap...) gear. Mas madali nga lang makukuha kung boutique route (as implied by those with experience - sadly I haven't tried yet) - but with hard work and luck we can also get that same great tone. Real world examples are professionals still using standard gear for recording. If great tone was exclusive for expensive gear - pare pareho na malamang ang gamit ng lahat...
Since tone is subjective, can anyone point us to some examples of "great tone" using boutique/expensive gear? Probably a good contrast to the video on the original post. When I think about GREAT guitar tones, I can only think about particular artists who all MOSTLY use standard guitars (strat, LP, Tele etc.) and gears. Are there any recent artists that is universally accepted to have "great tone" using boutique gear?
I'll also give another real world examples - cover and showbands treading the boards. Bands that have to play both Sinatra and Metallica on the same gig. Some can afford expensive gear some cannot. But almost all of us use digital multi-effects, standard BOSS pedals, Korean, Japanese or Taiwanese made guitars (may mga US made pero mediyo mababa ang percentage). Musicians who have more priorities like family to feed, children to go to school, parents na retirado na kaya dapat padalhan ng pera, tapos banda lang ang ikinabubuhay, almost impossible makakuha ng very very expensive guitars and effects (I don't see any guitarist in showbands will soon own a Suhr or a Yarron or a Klon Centaur or Gene Cornish - they don't even bring amps if they even own one).
But yun nga, these guys make the most of it.
Who wouldn't want a very expensive boutique gear? But if you don't have it, will it stop you from playing ang making music?
That was my point about the bluesmen I mentioned. Having just measly cheap instruments didn't stop them from making records. And the songs we remember them are from the time they still cannot afford expensive gear.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 10:31:03 AM
nangatong pa... im sure magagndahan siya... sa goodall nga muntik siya bumili sa sg.......... yun goodall ko na kay doc paul na, very nice guitar
Just to point out may panget rin na Goodall which I tested at the same time against the nice sounding Goodall... So for me, like electric guitars, I assess each guitar as unique and on a case by case basis.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 10:46:54 AM
I'll also give another real world examples - cover and showbands treading the boards. Bands that have to play both Sinatra and Metallica on the same gig. Some can afford expensive gear some cannot. But almost all of us use digital multi-effects, standard BOSS pedals, Korean, Japanese or Taiwanese made guitars (may mga US made pero mediyo mababa ang percentage). Musicians who have more priorities like family to feed, children to go to school, parents na retirado na kaya dapat padalhan ng pera, tapos banda lang ang ikinabubuhay, almost impossible makakuha ng very very expensive guitars and effects (I don't see any guitarist in showbands will soon own a Suhr or a Yarron or a Klon Centaur or Gene Cornish - they don't even bring amps if they even own one).
But yun nga, these guys make the most of it.
Who wouldn't want a very expensive boutique gear? But if you don't have it, will it stop you from playing ang making music?
That was my point about the bluesmen I mentioned. Having just measly cheap instruments didn't stop them from making records. And the songs we remember them are from the time they still cannot afford expensive gear.
I also have other priorities that occupy my time and I make sure that I only buy the best guitar gear and NOT junk which are easily sold in less than a year or two in the classifieds. Buying and shopping for thrash is just such a waste. Making the most of what you have is expected, but making the most can only do so much. It reaches a threshold.
Musicians choose to be musicians for varied reasons. Some are talented and most are NOT. I believe that they have obligations and are trying to make ends meet. But if you are failing as a musician, I think you should consider a career change and stop pointing out that life is hard. If you have a family and cannot afford it, do something else other than music to make their life much better. If you have parents to take care of, spend the most time with them when they are alive and give up the gigs that don't count much. Kung minsan, mapilit lang eh hindi naman talaga iyon ang talent at opportunidad.
Making music is totally a separate issue. But Boutique equipment does make the process more fun... By the way, Bon Jovi sells more records than the bluesmen and I enjoy them more than the bluesmen. But I can appreciate the bluesmen -- so my point is that there are more people who don't like the blues than like the blues. So, they can continue making records with ever declining record sales and yet for each album they record -- they get their equipment upgraded. So, lets stop using bluesmen as cliche examples of guitarists with lousy equipment.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 10:55:38 AM
dyan ako hindi agree... iba ang craftsmanship involved sa classical/flatop/archtop making.... pipili ka ng kahoy, itotono mo pa... yan Yaron barya lang yan pag bibili ka ng Monteleone etc :-)
You are missing the point... iyung nga ang advantage ng hollowbody or acoustic -- pwede itono. Ang electric walang remedyo kung maling pili ng kahoy. There are more expensive guitars than Yaron but the only reason why I am buying him is because Monteleone cannot even produce a Les Paul on the level of Gil Yaron regardless of price.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 11:02:04 AM
para matapos to... sinong gagawa ng sounclip ala blind test tapos boboto tyo kung ano dun mga low end VS high end na gamit. BOTH Guitars and AMPS. Dapat perfect score. GO! :evil: ng makita natin kung totoong may golden ears dito sa Pilipinas :lol:
Eh kung ganyan ka pumili ng gitara at amp, panay bulok lang makukuha mo. Suggestion ko, pumunta ka na lang sa Ultrasound Rehearsal New York at it i-renta ang Studio A para subukan lahat ng magandang amp. Sugro i-renta mo rin ang totoong 59 nila roon.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 18, 2011, 11:02:06 AM
You are missing the point... iyung nga ang advantage ng hollowbody or acoustic -- pwede itono. Ang electric walang remedyo kung maling pili ng kahoy. There are more expensive guitars than Yaron but the only reason why I am buying him is because Monteleone cannot even produce a Les Paul on the level of Gil Yaron regardless of price.
i disagree with this. kung mali ang pili ng kahoy sa electric, maraming remedyo. good pickups, good amp and good pedals. these will be able to mask the "dead-sounding" wood. kahit sa website ni Gil Yaron, he refers to pickups when he talks about the tone - not the wood.
sa acoustic, pag mali na ang kahoy, wala nang remedyo kasi iisa lang ang voice ng acoustic. it cannot hide behind a good amp or effects pedals.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 18, 2011, 11:06:51 AM
Would Frank Zappa use a China-made amp if he was still alive today? The answer is, maybe. Who knows? We all know that Frank was an ardent experimentalist when it comes to guitars, amps, gear or to anything that has got something to do with music. He'd try and test anything.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: dantuts on February 18, 2011, 11:14:22 AM
@firemodel55
listen to this link..
Quote from: firemodel55
Monteleone cannot even produce a Les Paul on the level of Gil Yaron regardless of price
Gumawa ng kanta si Mark Knopfler tungkol kay monteleone, he looks to him as a "stradivarius" like. apparently in awe of his stringed instruments.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 11:22:14 AM
i disagree with this. kung mali ang pili ng kahoy sa electric, maraming remedyo. good pickups, good amp and good pedals. these will be able to mask the "dead-sounding" wood. kahit sa website ni Gil Yaron, he refers to pickups when he talks about the tone - not the wood.
sa acoustic, pag mali na ang kahoy, wala nang remedyo kasi iisa lang ang voice ng acoustic. it cannot hide behind a good amp or effects pedals.
Well since I get to talk with Gil Yaron, we talk about wood. Pickups are important after wood selection. Why do you think he junks so much premium wood kung maayos lang iyon ng pickups?
Once a guitar is dead sounding, no pickups, no hardware, no amp and no pedals will save it. Believe me, it ends up being sold in the classified as the only remedy. Kung totoo ang sinasabi mo -- di wala ng magbebenta sa classifieds dahil na solusyonan na ang panget na gitara. You have a long way to go to learn about tone... I would like to cite my Goldtop story with Dan Chelsea. Dan Chelsea in my trip to New York had offered me two 54 Goldtops each costing US$20,000. One was mint and one was beat up- sira ang fingerboard, the paint was almost gone and had been painted over with red water color (yup it was not restored), the p90s pickup covers were cracked and obviously humming. The neck was not yet set up properly. Medyo corroded na ang wrap around. Dan wanted me to see it as is. And guess what? It had the tone that the mint 54 did not have. Ang layo. No amount of amp or pedals would have saved that mint 54 versus the tone, richness and magic of the beat up 54. heh heh
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 18, 2011, 11:57:32 AM
Well since I get to talk with Gil Yaron, we talk about wood. Pickups are important after wood selection. Why do you think he junks so much premium wood kung maayos lang iyon ng pickups?
Once a guitar is dead sounding, no pickups, no hardware, no amp and no pedals will save it. Believe me, it ends up being sold in the classified as the only remedy. Kung totoo ang sinasabi mo -- di wala ng magbebenta sa classifieds dahil na solusyonan na ang panget na gitara. You have a long way to go to learn about tone... I would like to cite my Goldtop story with Dan Chelsea. Dan Chelsea in my trip to New York had offered me two 54 Goldtops each costing US$20,000. One was mint and one was beat up- sira ang fingerboard, the paint was almost gone and had been painted over with red water color (yup it was not restored), the p90s pickup covers were cracked and obviously humming. The neck was not yet set up properly. Medyo corroded na ang wrap around. Dan wanted me to see it as is. And guess what? It had the tone that the mint 54 did not have. Ang layo. No amount of amp or pedals would have saved that mint 54 versus the tone, richness and magic of the beat up 54. heh heh
Just because nagbenta ka sa classifieds e ibig sabihin pangit ang gear mo. There could be other reasons, y'know.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 18, 2011, 12:07:16 PM
Well since I get to talk with Gil Yaron, we talk about wood. Pickups are important after wood selection. Why do you think he junks so much premium wood kung maayos lang iyon ng pickups?
he junks premium wood to show that he has high standards, given his price. i daresay marketing, or maybe he just ran into some difficult wood planks. but i'm sure there are so much more companies that worked with wood that are rejects to Gil Yaron and produced good sounding electrics. IMO, it's more of workability, dryness and weight considerations with solidbody wood.
Once a guitar is dead sounding, no pickups, no hardware, no amp and no pedals will save it. Believe me, it ends up being sold in the classified as the only remedy. Kung totoo ang sinasabi mo -- di wala ng magbebenta sa classifieds dahil na solusyonan na ang panget na gitara. You have a long way to go to learn about tone... I would like to cite my Goldtop story with Dan Chelsea. Dan Chelsea in my trip to New York had offered me two 54 Goldtops each costing US$20,000. One was mint and one was beat up- sira ang fingerboard, the paint was almost gone and had been painted over with red water color (yup it was not restored), the p90s pickup covers were cracked and obviously humming. The neck was not yet set up properly. Medyo corroded na ang wrap around. Dan wanted me to see it as is. And guess what? It had the tone that the mint 54 did not have. Ang layo. No amount of amp or pedals would have saved that mint 54 versus the tone, richness and magic of the beat up 54. heh heh
a dead-sounding electric guitar is the sum of all its parts - plus the player. of course there will be dead-sounding guitars - i'm not saying that there aren't - but it's not wholly dependent on the wood alone. kaya naman maraming nasa classifieds kasi maraming gusto mag-upgrade eh. it's directly proportional to budget.
i don't claim to know a lot about tone. i'm just saying that there are a lot more ways to compensate electrics than acoustics. in that 54 shootout, i can't imagine how the other 54 (beaten up as it is - broken fingerboard, no set-up and humming pickups) could have possibly sounded better than the mint one. it defies logic. i guess there will always be such instances with guitars.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 18, 2011, 12:23:02 PM
Just to point out may panget rin na Goodall which I tested at the same time against the nice sounding Goodall... So for me, like electric guitars, I assess each guitar as unique and on a case by case basis.
baka uninspiring or average... wala pa akong nasubukan na panget w/ regards to goodall... Tsaka yun gusto mong Goodall jumbo ata right??? baka malakas lang yun volume... haha... the smaller models usually have better clarity and note separation... baka volume lang hinahanap mo :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: free2rock on February 18, 2011, 12:25:54 PM
he junks premium wood to show that he has high standards, given his price. i daresay marketing, or maybe he just ran into some difficult wood planks. but i'm sure there are so much more companies that worked with wood that are rejects to Gil Yaron and produced good sounding electrics. IMO, it's more of workability, dryness and weight considerations with solidbody wood.
I don't think ANY process in selecting wood is foolproof. What it assures however, is a high rate of getting a high quality guitar you just can't stop playing ;-) Of course, corollary to that, there may have been wood rejected that may have been worked into a great sounding guitar. But of course, that's simply conjecture--but still plausible, nonetheless.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 18, 2011, 12:26:40 PM
Monteleone and Yaron are not in the same league.... wag na icompare :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 01:48:17 PM
Just because nagbenta ka sa classifieds e ibig sabihin pangit ang gear mo. There could be other reasons, y'know.
I can assure you that 95% sell because panget ang tunog.... the remaining 5% sell because they really need the cash or have a duplicate of the what they are selling. Alam mo kasi, kung magandang tunog ng isang gitara talagang people hold onto it. And given that good/great sounding guitars are rare indeed, kaya maraming benta sa classifieds. Lets be honest with ourselves, if it was otherwise -- that 95% of the guitars being sold sa classifieds sound good -- then guitarists would be the dumbest lot of musicians for selling that many good sounding instruments.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 01:54:36 PM
Monteleone and Yaron are not in the same league.... wag na icompare :-)
In fairness, I am still a bit skeptical about Yaron's work in terms of wood selection but to be honest, I just don't see Monteleone to be as proficient as Yaron in wood selection -- maybe in working hollowbodies and all those trimmings magaling si Monteleone. But for me, the monteleone still has to be heard and played by me.
Exquisite Hollow bodies for me, just a personal opinion, are like blinged up Ferrarris. But there is nothing like a plain and simple F40 or F50 that delivers the goods were it matters.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 02:07:03 PM
he junks premium wood to show that he has high standards, given his price. i daresay marketing, or maybe he just ran into some difficult wood planks. but i'm sure there are so much more companies that worked with wood that are rejects to Gil Yaron and produced good sounding electrics. IMO, it's more of workability, dryness and weight considerations with solidbody wood.
a dead-sounding electric guitar is the sum of all its parts - plus the player. of course there will be dead-sounding guitars - i'm not saying that there aren't - but it's not wholly dependent on the wood alone. kaya naman maraming nasa classifieds kasi maraming gusto mag-upgrade eh. it's directly proportional to budget.
i don't claim to know a lot about tone. i'm just saying that there are a lot more ways to compensate electrics than acoustics. in that 54 shootout, i can't imagine how the other 54 (beaten up as it is - broken fingerboard, no set-up and humming pickups) could have possibly sounded better than the mint one. it defies logic. i guess there will always be such instances with guitars.
By the way, up to this point in time, since Gil knows that I am picky and expect the guitar with most magic, he has put off mahogany selection. He wants me to wait until he finds the mahogany to do justice to my requirements. By the way, he understands magic that a lot of people on this forum have difficulty comprehending. This despite the fact that he has continued to produce burst replicas. So, for me, thats no marketing ploy. Difficult wood planks he runs into many but for me as per request he has to get the creme de la creme. You know why I get that service from him, kasi may understanding kami na mahirap makakuha ng magandang tunong na gitara. Hindi niya solusyon ang pickups o ang hardware -- we go to the basic which is wood selection. He will thrash a body after carving if it does not pass his tuning forks test. Thats not marketing, thats hard work. So, I am not after producing just a 'good' sounding electric -- I am after a GREAT sounding that looks as beautiful.
It does not defy logic, how I, Dan Chelsea and G.E. Smith can agree that the beat up 54 sounded better. Its simple -- its 100% in the wood. Why? Because wood is the only component that ain't man made with so much variability -- logic that you cannot deny.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pulpol on February 18, 2011, 02:40:43 PM
By the way, up to this point in time, since Gil knows that I am picky and expect the guitar with most magic, he has put off mahogany selection. He wants me to wait until he finds the mahogany to do justice to my requirements. By the way, he understands magic that a lot of people on this forum have difficulty comprehending. This despite the fact that he has continued to produce burst replicas. So, for me, thats no marketing ploy. Difficult wood planks he runs into many but for me as per request he has to get the creme de la creme. You know why I get that service from him, kasi may understanding kami na mahirap makakuha ng magandang tunong na gitara. Hindi niya solusyon ang pickups o ang hardware -- we go to the basic which is wood selection. He will thrash a body after carving if it does not pass his tuning forks test. Thats not marketing, thats hard work. So, I am not after producing just a 'good' sounding electric -- I am after a GREAT sounding that looks as beautiful.
It does not defy logic, how I, Dan Chelsea and G.E. Smith can agree that the beat up 54 sounded better. Its simple -- its 100% in the wood. Why? Because wood is the only component that ain't man made with so much variability -- logic that you cannot deny.
How do you define MAGIC sir
is it the TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IIINNNNNGGGG????
haha
Seriously, How will you be able to produce great tones? how will you be able to prove to me or to us, or influence poeple with your points of view and beliefs when you arent that a good player?... no offense sir but thats the truth...
many guitar legends can produce GREAT tones, can express their Music Spiritually, Emotionaly, with alll of their hearts and soul without the MAGIC that you are talking about...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: nathanmanansala on February 18, 2011, 02:49:02 PM
odd though, after 11 pages, i havent seen one post saying "i'd gig with that." i know i wouldn't. :lol:
maybe i need to read through everything ulit. slow day at work e.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: stringman on February 18, 2011, 03:01:05 PM
I must agree that a guitar with good craftsmanship is really way ahead of the cheaper but not lesser sounding guitars.
But.........................................
What's the use of having an expensive well crafted guitar if you can't even express you self in playing?
A good player with even the most rubbish instrument can make a good sound, not that perfect but the magic word would be "singing". Yes someone can make a guitar sing beautifully even though it's cheap.
So great tone isn't always expensive, yes!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 18, 2011, 03:03:52 PM
Nope. Just to rule out the factors you've mentioned in your argument that the video was captured by a mobile phone camera and the Baker through Elegee's amp.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: shodawmoon on February 18, 2011, 03:38:16 PM
I must agree that a guitar with good craftsmanship is really way ahead of the cheaper but not lesser sounding guitars.
But.........................................
What's the use of having an expensive well crafted guitar if you can't even express you self in playing?
A good player with even the most rubbish instrument can make a good sound, not that perfect but the magic word would be "singing". Yes someone can make a guitar sing beautifully even though it's cheap.
So great tone isn't always expensive, yes!
I agree.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 18, 2011, 03:39:21 PM
I can assure you that 95% sell because panget ang tunog.... the remaining 5% sell because they really need the cash or have a duplicate of the what they are selling. Alam mo kasi, kung magandang tunog ng isang gitara talagang people hold onto it. And given that good/great sounding guitars are rare indeed, kaya maraming benta sa classifieds. Lets be honest with ourselves, if it was otherwise -- that 95% of the guitars being sold sa classifieds sound good -- then guitarists would be the dumbest lot of musicians for selling that many good sounding instruments.
Nah! 95% is too much. I'd have to say it's somewhere between 80-85%. Then again, some or most folks who sell their items here don't really think their gears are bad-sounding. Could be that they just found a much better sounding piece of gear or equipment that's why. Finding a much better equipment doesn't necessarily mean what you currently have is crap. Some things just work better for 'em.
Alex, kahit anong ganda at kamahal ng gamit mo, kung kapit ka na sa patalim at talagang kelangan mo ng pera for emergency and for whatever reason, bibitiwan mo din yan. Life is more important than holding on to tangible things you know you can replace or buy back someday.
I'm not sure if all of you guys are familiar with this story, but, when Michael Schenker was struck by a series of unfortunate events and misfortune, at the time when he was facing the hard economic reality in the early 2000, Michael was forced to sell $200,000 worth of his studio equipment just to ease his debt load. When that didn't do enough, the day he fears the most has finally come. He finds himself once again in the same predicament where he had no choice but to let go of something that's of golden value and something that has been very dear to him. This time, the sacrificial lambs were his three (3) black and white Gibson Flying Vs, the guitar, his partner(s) in crime so to speak, which he has forged his signature to the music and guitar world. Michael was so well-linked to those flying vs that he's the first person you think of when you see a flying v guitar. Mr. Schenker was homeless by 2002.
With God's grace and mercy, Michael is doin' great now. He's in a better life condition and he is once again playing music. He now has his life back. Now, I won't delve too much on that part of his life but now, you get the picture.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 18, 2011, 03:42:16 PM
Seriously, How will you be able to produce great tones? how will you be able to prove to me or to us, or influence poeple with your points of view and beliefs when you arent that a good player?... no offense sir but thats the truth...
many guitar legends can produce GREAT tones, can express their Music Spiritually, Emotionaly, with alll of their hearts and soul without the MAGIC that you are talking about...
So you are saying that you are a better player than I?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: region III on February 18, 2011, 03:46:32 PM
:roll:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 18, 2011, 03:49:25 PM
Nah! 95% is too much. I'd have to say it's somewhere between 80-85%. Then again, some or most folks who sell their items here don't really think their gears are bad-sounding. Could be that they just found a much better sounding piece of gear or equipment that's why. Finding a much better equipment doesn't necessarily mean what you currently have is crap. Some things just work better for 'em.
Alex, kahit anong ganda at kamahal ng gamit mo, kung kapit ka na sa patalim at talagang kelangan mo ng pera for emergency and for whatever reason, bibitiwan mo din yan. Life is more important than holding on to tangible things you know you can replace or buy back someday.
I'm not sure if all of you guys are familiar with this story, but, when Michael Schenker was struck by a series of unfortunate events and misfortune, at the time when he was facing the hard economic reality in the early 2000, Michael was forced to sell $200,000 worth of his studio equipment just to ease his debt load. When that didn't do enough, the day he fears the most has finally come. He finds himself once again in the same predicament where he had no choice but to let go of something that's of golden value and something that has been very dear to him. This time, the sacrificial lambs were his three (3) black and white Gibson Flying Vs, the guitar, his partner(s) in crime so to speak, which he has forged his signature to the music and guitar world. Michael was so well-linked to those flying vs that he's the first person you think of when you see a flying v guitar. Mr. Schenker was homeless by 2002.
With God's grace and mercy, Michael is doin' great now. He's in a better life condition and he is once again playing music. He now has his life back. Now, I won't delve too much on that part of his life but now, you get the picture.
Again, when people sell an item specially a guitar, regardless of whether they bought a new guitar or not just means its not worth keeping and most of the time, what you don't keep is the worst or bad sounding guitar that you own. So if you find something better, it just means that your old guitar sounds bad. Why do I say so? I have four guitars now. I really just want to maintain two or three guitars but I cannot seem to sell any of them because they all sound so magical. Though one is extra ordinary the others are still close to extra ordinary. When you own something on a magical level, its not a matter of sounding better -- its a matter of being at the top.
I have no issue of getting rid of what you own to save a life. Thats logical and correct but thats why I did not choose to be a musician so it does not have to get to that point. At the outset, I personally feel na wala naman talagang mayaman na musician dito except Arnel Pineda which is close to a fairy tale story. Its a choice I made maski na gusto ko gawin. So to avoid getting close to that situation, I suggest you look for something better to do or that brings in more income to avoid such a possibility. If you have no other talent, I suggest that you go on and do your best in life but don't think that great tone is cheap.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: KASALANAN on February 18, 2011, 04:04:26 PM
i hate to comment pero... :lol:
mukhang papunta nanaman to sa isang epic na thread :lol:
btw ok ipartner ang wasabi potato chips sa argument na nababasa ko :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: boybangs on February 18, 2011, 04:09:55 PM
Again, when people sell an item specially a guitar, regardless of whether they bought a new guitar or not just means its not worth keeping and most of the time, what you don't keep is the worst or bad sounding guitar that you own. So if you find something better, it just means that your old guitar sounds bad. Why do I say so? I have four guitars now. I really just want to maintain two or three guitars but I cannot seem to sell any of them because they all sound so magical. Though one is extra ordinary the others are still close to extra ordinary. When you own something on a magical level, its not a matter of sounding better -- its a matter of being at the top.
I have no issue of getting rid of what you own to save a life. Thats logical and correct but thats why I did not choose to be a musician so it does not have to get to that point. At the outset, I personally feel na wala naman talagang mayaman na musician dito except Arnel Pineda which is close to a fairy tale story. Its a choice I made maski na gusto ko gawin. So to avoid getting close to that situation, I suggest you look for something better to do or that brings in more income to avoid such a possibility. If you have no other talent, I suggest that you go on and do your best in life but don't think that great tone is cheap.
Again, finding a better guitar doesn't mean your current axe is crap or rubbish. It just so happens that there are good-sounding guitars, as well as better-sounding ones. Do you understand? Good.
There are no magical-sounding guitars, only players who make the guitar sound magical.
'Di lang si Ariel Pineda ang musician/singer na mayaman dito. Please do your research.
I hope you are referring to "you" as a general term. :wink:
Oh, and by the way, having or owning top-of-the-line equipment does not, by all means, make you on top of everyone else.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on February 18, 2011, 04:47:25 PM
SIGE NA NGA ALEX IKAW NA LAHAT!
:lol:
IBTL! :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: nathanmanansala on February 18, 2011, 04:59:02 PM
again: odd.
i was under the impression that the GAS-afflicted here keep shuffling gear around kasi, like me, they can't afford to just buy everything they want to try and gig with it for a few months. so ang solution is to sell what you have, no matter how much you like it, to afford the experimentation. and, in my case at least, i'm not really looking for "the best" or "the one" anymore. I just want to play something else, something different from what i already have.
i absolutely adored my '52ri. i thought it was the one guitar i'd play for the rest of my life. but i felt the itch and didnt have the cash. so i sold it when i wanted to experiment with SGs. at the time, i was thinking it'd be easy to buy it back if i wanted, of course. but it was soon sold. to someone who brought it to canada. :lol: so thats that. a few months later, scored another "The One" tele, then i itched again so i sold it too. :lol:
isnt that what its all the gear shuffling is about? scratching the itch? or ako lang yung ganun kalala ang need to play something new (not new as in brand new; just new to me)?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: nathanmanansala on February 18, 2011, 05:20:24 PM
i'm selling again. shameless ad. its in my sig. finance my next experiment. tele ulit. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: stringman on February 18, 2011, 05:28:28 PM
When you own something on a magical level, its not a matter of sounding better -- its a matter of being at the top.
This is why everybody in this forum is kicking your ass!!
People here would agree that you own the best equipment that money can buy, but that does not give you to right to diss on other peoples equipment in this forum. Konting respeto sa mga tao dito Mr. Alex, mas marami pa rin ditong musikero kesa collector!!! And also to add, you have not earned enough respect to lecture us on what is the best tone our money can buy.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: region III on February 18, 2011, 05:53:06 PM
i saw and heard the video. the baker sounds just like my squier (but maybe with better notes).
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 18, 2011, 05:55:41 PM
wag na sana natin gatungan yung mga unnecessary posts.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: samuelfianza on February 18, 2011, 06:25:05 PM
Para saan ba ang magandang tone kung hindi mo naman trip.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: KASALANAN on February 18, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
In fairness, I am still a bit skeptical about Yaron's work in terms of wood selection but to be honest, I just don't see Monteleone to be as proficient as Yaron in wood selection -- maybe in working hollowbodies and all those trimmings magaling si Monteleone. But for me, the monteleone still has to be heard and played by me.
Exquisite Hollow bodies for me, just a personal opinion, are like blinged up Ferrarris. But there is nothing like a plain and simple F40 or F50 that delivers the goods were it matters.
not as proficient??? lol......... listen to Mark K's song "Monteleone" ganun siya na move... this guy is a tone nut.... wala sa bling kaya highly regarded si monteleone...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 18, 2011, 06:43:37 PM
Again, when people sell an item specially a guitar, regardless of whether they bought a new guitar or not just means its not worth keeping and most of the time, what you don't keep is the worst or bad sounding guitar that you own. So if you find something better, it just means that your old guitar sounds bad.
not necessarily. good < better < best
if you have a good sounding guitar, then found a better sounding guitar, but cant keep them both because of financial limitation, ill sell the good sounding guitar to get the better guitar.
the good sounding guitar is not a bad sounding guitar.
of course we can also sell it because of change in preference in tone or whatever reason one might think.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: farseer on February 18, 2011, 06:47:11 PM
This is why everybody in this forum is kicking your ass!!
People here would agree that you own the best equipment that money can buy, but that does not give you to right to diss on other peoples equipment in this forum. Konting respeto sa mga tao dito Mr. Alex, mas marami pa rin ditong musikero kesa collector!!! And also to add, you have not earned enough respect to lecture us on what is the best tone our money can buy.
just to correct you... yan mga gamit ni alex, overseas maraming may ganyan... mas marami pang mahal and unique, as ive said compare the Yaron to higend acoustics ive played e 1/3 o 1/4 lang presyo niyan ... guitars that are 20k up, madami ako nakakachat sa forums... they have all these expensive and wonderful instruments pero walang nagcocomment na panget yan sayo, itong akin ang maganda... They praise their instruments w/o dissing somebody else's....
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: johnbrown on February 18, 2011, 06:52:30 PM
Nice thread a lot of opinion's.... :evil: Can't help it also to comment, But I guess defining tone is in the EARS of the beholder! :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: rjthemute on February 18, 2011, 07:06:22 PM
i was under the impression that the GAS-afflicted here keep shuffling gear around kasi, like me, they can't afford to just buy everything they want to try and gig with it for a few months. so ang solution is to sell what you have, no matter how much you like it, to afford the experimentation. and, in my case at least, i'm not really looking for "the best" or "the one" anymore. I just want to play something else, something different from what i already have.
i absolutely adored my '52ri. i thought it was the one guitar i'd play for the rest of my life. but i felt the itch and didnt have the cash. so i sold it when i wanted to experiment with SGs. at the time, i was thinking it'd be easy to buy it back if i wanted, of course. but it was soon sold. to someone who brought it to canada. :lol: so thats that. a few months later, scored another "The One" tele, then i itched again so i sold it too. :lol:
isnt that what its all the gear shuffling is about? scratching the itch? or ako lang yung ganun kalala ang need to play something new (not new as in brand new; just new to me)?
A lot of us here are actually like this, just afflicted with GAS...i.e. not necessarily chasing the purist holy grail of tone-dom. And then there are people like firemodel, who go for the very best and don't settle for anything less. Nothing wrong with that, he's got the means so why not, more power, I'm actually jealous. Sure we can be happy, make music, and play the sh*t out of whatever gear we've got, but c'mon, would we really settle if we had the opportunity to play the higher end stuff? I call BS if you say otherwise. Tone is subjective so we may not agree with FM's gear choices or even go the same direction (suhr, yaron custom, etc), but I'm gonna bet that most everyone here (including that dude in the video), in his/her own quest for tone, has his/her very own holy grail. What sucks is a lot of the time they cost more than we would really like to spend, so we settle for what's "good enough".
I do believe that great tone isn't always expensive and that expensive gear doesn't necessarily equal great tone, so I'm not siding with FM or anything (he does come off as a bit of an A). I just don't subscribe to the idea that one's skill level dictates the gear that one should have. Why can't a not-so-excellent player weild a $5000 dollar axe? Why not? E kung dun sya masaya.
just to correct you... yan mga gamit ni alex, overseas maraming may ganyan... mas marami pang mahal and unique, as ive said compare the Yaron to higend acoustics ive played e 1/3 o 1/4 lang presyo niyan ... guitars that are 20k up, madami ako nakakachat sa forums... they have all these expensive and wonderful instruments pero walang nagcocomment na panget yan sayo, itong akin ang maganda... They praise their instruments w/o dissing somebody else's....
eto yun e, kaya nagiging ganito mga thread dito
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: stringman on February 18, 2011, 07:07:59 PM
just to correct you... yan mga gamit ni alex, overseas maraming may ganyan... mas marami pang mahal and unique, as ive said compare the Yaron to higend acoustics ive played e 1/3 o 1/4 lang presyo niyan ... guitars that are 20k up, madami ako nakakachat sa forums... they have all these expensive and wonderful instruments pero walang nagcocomment na panget yan sayo, itong akin ang maganda... They praise their instruments w/o dissing somebody else's....
My opinion was within the PM forums lang. :-) Yan ang maganda sa mga forums nila, they have the high end gear pero they give respect to each other, and each others taste.
I agree with Alex's opinions about sound and type of wood. I just don't agree on the way puts down others gears, even to the extent others creation. Mali talaga!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ungas123 on February 18, 2011, 07:08:20 PM
noong 1st page pa lang itong thread alam ko nang magiging bida na naman dito si firemodel :)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: aHeartThatNeverFade on February 18, 2011, 07:09:08 PM
Sana naging MAGICIAN na lang ako para:
1. Magka-magic yung tele ko. 2. Hindi na ako mag-eensayo. 3. Makabili ng mga bowteeks amps and pedals (pati bowteek girls sama na natin. :evil:) 4. Lumabas na lang ng kusa kung ano man yang "tone" na sinasabi niyo. 5. Magkaroon tayo ng pare-parehas na utak na pare-parehas umandar. 6. Maisama na rin yung pare-parehas na pandinig para wala ng tanungan ng "what is the best/most Dist/OD/fuzz" whatsoever. 7. Maghulog ang langit ng araw o petsa na makapag-shoot out ang mga may alam sa "tone". 8. Malaman ng mga taong may iba't ibang karakter ang bawat isa sa kung ano ang gusto. 9. Maidagdag na hindi naman galing sa atin ang musika kaya dapat ipagpasalamat natin yun sa Diyos. at, 10. Maliwanagan tayong hindi natin makukuha ang perpektong "tone" dahil sa mentalidad ng taong "my gear is better than yours".
Samakatuwid, lahat ng bagay sa mundo ay may kanya-akanyang kagustuhan. Maligaya ako sa kung ano man ang meron ako. Kung may pagkakataon, 50/50 ang chance ko na mag-upgrade. Ang importante naman ay satisfaction ng tao. Maging masaya tayo sa pag-create ng music. :lol: Hindi natin madadala sa langit ang mga gamit na yan.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 18, 2011, 07:33:59 PM
i was under the impression that the GAS-afflicted here keep shuffling gear around kasi, like me, they can't afford to just buy everything they want to try and gig with it for a few months. so ang solution is to sell what you have, no matter how much you like it, to afford the experimentation. and, in my case at least, i'm not really looking for "the best" or "the one" anymore. I just want to play something else, something different from what i already have.
i absolutely adored my '52ri. i thought it was the one guitar i'd play for the rest of my life. but i felt the itch and didnt have the cash. so i sold it when i wanted to experiment with SGs. at the time, i was thinking it'd be easy to buy it back if i wanted, of course. but it was soon sold. to someone who brought it to canada. :lol: so thats that. a few months later, scored another "The One" tele, then i itched again so i sold it too. :lol:
isnt that what its all the gear shuffling is about? scratching the itch? or ako lang yung ganun kalala ang need to play something new (not new as in brand new; just new to me)?
same here. i've been accused in the past that i don't know what i want. i guess some people don't understand the concept of gear rolling due to limited gear funds.
just to correct you... yan mga gamit ni alex, overseas maraming may ganyan... mas marami pang mahal and unique, as ive said compare the Yaron to higend acoustics ive played e 1/3 o 1/4 lang presyo niyan ... guitars that are 20k up, madami ako nakakachat sa forums... they have all these expensive and wonderful instruments pero walang nagcocomment na panget yan sayo, itong akin ang maganda... They praise their instruments w/o dissing somebody else's....
yeah, i was just about to say. MARAMI DITO SA PINAS MAS MAGANDA PA GEAR KESA KAY ALEX! kay farseer lang nga fraction lang ng cost ng guitars or amps niya ang isang acoustic nya. in the True Acoustic Tone thread we have healthy discussions on all kinds of guitar at all price ranges. informative, enlightening, and liberating ang usapan. walang nangmamaliit ng gear ng iba, just a gentle nudge towards something that might be better. nasa nagdadala lang talaga yan... ;-)
kung gusto nyo magpa-apekto sa mga hirit ni Alex, kayo na ang may problema. Alex will be Alex. You can't aim to be better than him, just be a better version of yourself.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: niehrx on February 18, 2011, 08:27:41 PM
parang napaka unfair naman kasi sa mamahalin mong gitara pag hindi mo kaya tumogtog ng maayos. kung babae lang ang gitara hihiwalayan din kayo nyan pag nalamang you suck at playing. kaya sa mga hindi pa magaling, maawa naman kayo sa mamahaling gitara nyo. someone deserves it more. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 18, 2011, 09:36:38 PM
not as proficient??? lol......... listen to Mark K's song "Monteleone" ganun siya na move... this guy is a tone nut.... wala sa bling kaya highly regarded si monteleone...
Mark K...orders guitars from schecter custom shop(where tom anderson works), then when the shop closed then did Pensa-Suhr..well we know he uses both suhr and fender nowadays, but Mark is a gear nut and if he gets moved by Monteleone..thats alot of 'inspiration' or magic that touched him :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 18, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
kung gusto nyo magpa-apekto sa mga hirit ni Alex, kayo na ang may problema. Alex will be Alex. You can't aim to be better than him, just be a better version of yourself.
I'm with you on this, Joric.
Gentlemen, take it from the people who've been there and done that.
parang napaka unfair naman kasi sa mamahalin mong gitara pag hindi mo kaya tumogtog ng maayos. kung babae lang ang gitara hihiwalayan din kayo nyan pag nalamang you suck at playing. kaya sa mga hindi pa magaling, maawa naman kayo sa mamahaling gitara nyo. someone deserves it more. :-D
It's easy and tempting to think so. But no. Bearing such a mentality only teeters one towards envy. If you feel that way, then you may be doing a disservice to yourself, as well. We are free to buy any guitar, and do whatever we please so long as we can afford it.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 18, 2011, 10:21:22 PM
So you are saying that you are a better player than I?
There's only one way to find out. and I'm not starting a fire here. This can be settled in a nice matter. and for you to prove to us all that you can play besides that serious knowledge of yours that to some are informative many think that what the heck is this guy saying, he can't even play. your video clip is even on signitures on some fellow forumer's, so it's a non working holiday on the 25th so bahala na kayo guys. sana wala ng reasons.com.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 18, 2011, 10:24:52 PM
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 18, 2011, 10:30:13 PM
eh kase malamang. may reason na naman na mahaba yan. haha :)) pa pogian na lang kung di manalo sa tone.
hahahaha. tigil na nga ako baka mapagsabihan nanaman ako. dame kase takot eh.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on February 18, 2011, 10:31:15 PM
with the amount of money fm55 will be paying Mr. Yaron, syempre kahit sinong seller/builder naman siguro sasakyan kung ano yung trip ni fm55, kung trip ni fm55 yung may magic na gitara syempre sasabihin din nung seller (yaron) oo sir may magic yan sir...pero syempre may background music "sasakyan kita sa lahat ng gusto mo..." :-D
hindi ba the magic is in the fingers?...pabilisan ng kamay :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 18, 2011, 10:33:56 PM
kelangan ng matibay na ebidensya! video sample with clear sounds! GO GO GO! :lol: Para matapos na yung tone tone tone! :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 18, 2011, 10:37:49 PM
Haha. wag ka na umasa bro at masasaktan ka lang. sa totoo lang wala na nga pupuntahan yung thread na to eh. mejo nonsense na. haha. wala naman magpapatalo dito eh. tapos may minions pa si alex. hahaha. hay nako
*i will run away and hide, or not cause i have balls. not afraid to get in a little trouble.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 18, 2011, 10:39:53 PM
hindi ba the magic is in the fingers?...pabilisan ng kamay :-D
nah. sa amp din :) has to be both.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Rmansh on February 18, 2011, 10:41:24 PM
bakit pag usapang tone lagi ata nandyan si fm55? :-D
one thing i observed here is that alex swears by his gear, it looks like he got "the holy grail tone", and that tone needs to be heard and shared, para naman matauhan kami na di expert sa tone. seriously, it would help us here if only alex would do a quick soundclip of his gear, forget that lousy swirling demo, i bet marami namang better recording gear aside from a cellphone. if alex don't want to play it i guess there are some who are willing to volunteer. That magical TONE needs to be heard.
There's too much talk already,too much reading, but no audio clip.............di ba usapang TONE ito? :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: tongski_02 on February 18, 2011, 10:42:00 PM
Gentlemen, take it from the people who've been there and done that.
It's easy and tempting to think so. But no. Bearing such a mentality only teeters one towards envy. If you feel that way, then you may be doing a disservice to yourself, as well. We are free to buy any guitar, and do whatever we please so long as we can afford it.
TAMA!!!!!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 18, 2011, 10:46:26 PM
bakit pag usapang tone lagi ata nandyan si fm55? :-D
one thing i observed here is that alex swears by his gear, it looks like he got "the holy grail tone", and that tone needs to be heard and shared, para naman matauhan kami na di expert sa tone. seriously, it would help us here if only alex would do a quick soundclip of his gear, forget that lousy swirling demo, i bet marami namang better recording gear aside from a cellphone. if alex don't want to play it i guess there are some who are willing to volunteer. That magical TONE needs to be heard.
There's too much talk already,too much reading, but no audio clip.............di ba usapang TONE ito? :-D
+1 :) alex, as you said.
WALK THE TALK
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 18, 2011, 10:56:47 PM
:lol: wag iclose tong thread! magiging isa sa legendary thread to! ang saya! :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 18, 2011, 11:25:31 PM
I also have other priorities that occupy my time and I make sure that I only buy the best guitar gear and NOT junk which are easily sold in less than a year or two in the classifieds. Buying and shopping for thrash is just such a waste. Making the most of what you have is expected, but making the most can only do so much. It reaches a threshold.
Musicians choose to be musicians for varied reasons. Some are talented and most are NOT. I believe that they have obligations and are trying to make ends meet. But if you are failing as a musician, I think you should consider a career change and stop pointing out that life is hard. If you have a family and cannot afford it, do something else other than music to make their life much better. If you have parents to take care of, spend the most time with them when they are alive and give up the gigs that don't count much. Kung minsan, mapilit lang eh hindi naman talaga iyon ang talent at opportunidad.
So what you are trying to say here is that if a musician never owned equipment like yours you were not successful as a musician? I wonder how will people like Ernie Delgado, Rey Sanchez, Boy Adan, Jondi Villacorta, Cezar Aguas react to your statement. They have pretty good gear but not as high as yours. And yet not only they were able to feed their family and send their kids to school, they produced some of the awesome guitar sounds that inspired me to this day. NO CUSTOM GEAR TO BE FOUND. Oh yeah, they have a little bit of talent too.
Making music is totally a separate issue. But Boutique equipment does make the process more fun... By the way, Bon Jovi sells more records than the bluesmen and I enjoy them more than the bluesmen. But I can appreciate the bluesmen -- so my point is that there are more people who don't like the blues than like the blues. So, they can continue making records with ever declining record sales and yet for each album they record -- they get their equipment upgraded. So, lets stop using bluesmen as cliche examples of guitarists with lousy equipment.
I don't think this is a cliche, believe me, several years from now, somebody will also agree to what I just claimed. Richie Sambora in Guitar World January 1989 issue (Robert Cray is the cover) told the magazine how he was astounded by the bluesmen in the delta. They have the cheapest guitar with two strings missing and the remaining four, one of them was tied at the headstock para lang magamit pa. And Sambora said that they produced more emotion than any other he has heard. Unless you can be better than the said bluesmen AND Richie Sambora - yaman din lamang na gusto mo ang Bon Jovi - which I like to by the way (oh diba, we have similar tastes too! Hehehehe....), that will not be cliche. It will always be a standard of some sorts.
Alex, no one doubts here that you have way way way way way way way way way more expensive and better gear than most of us could only dream in a lifetime. And no one challenges your theory in tone because tama naman talaga. It's just that it is really not feasible for the majority of us. That being said, you cannot stop us from playing and making music no matter what our disposition in life. Hindi lang naman pang mayaman ang musika e. Tell that to Robert Johnson. Remember what I said to you about Max Rufo's pickups? Let me repeat it my friend R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Do not insinuate others that they have bad gear or have less knowledge than you when it comes to tone.
I have a friend here in PM who has more or less the same gear as yours and yet he NEVER once told me that "ayoko yang gamit mo, pangit tunog" or "ayoko yang tube screamer, walang laban yan sa Timmy ko". In fact he appreciates that I can make the best out of what I got. In fact he always invite me for a jam session over pizza and coke.
But then again, if you cannot understand what 95% percent of us here in PM can, then I guess, Joric is right. Let Alex be Alex, or as one said - SIGE ALEX IKAW NA LANG ANG LAHAT. We will just be better versions of ourselves.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: niehrx on February 18, 2011, 11:26:06 PM
Gentlemen, take it from the people who've been there and done that.
It's easy and tempting to think so. But no. Bearing such a mentality only teeters one towards envy. If you feel that way, then you may be doing a disservice to yourself, as well. We are free to buy any guitar, and do whatever we please so long as we can afford it.
yeah... whatever, it's a free country. hehe. i just felt sorry for the good guitars that has fallen into the wrong hands. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 18, 2011, 11:29:33 PM
kung gusto nyo magpa-apekto sa mga hirit ni Alex, kayo na ang may problema. Alex will be Alex. You can't aim to be better than him, just be a better version of yourself.
in the True Acoustic Tone thread we have healthy discussions on all kinds of guitar at all price ranges. informative, enlightening, and liberating ang usapan.
only difference in the True Acoustic Tone thread is that the dudes who have expensive acoustics - farseer & dantuts (oo Dante kasama ka na dito! lol!) to name a few - don't diss others. they provide inputs and describe their experiences with acoustics in that price range so those who have yet to actually experience such know what to look for.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 12:07:11 AM
Again, finding a better guitar doesn't mean your current axe is crap or rubbish. It just so happens that there are good-sounding guitars, as well as better-sounding ones. Do you understand? Good.
There are no magical-sounding guitars, only players who make the guitar sound magical.
'Di lang si Ariel Pineda ang musician/singer na mayaman dito. Please do your research.
I hope you are referring to "you" as a general term. :wink:
Oh, and by the way, having or owning top-of-the-line equipment does not, by all means, make you on top of everyone else.
Then keep your good sounding guitars! Still, I cannot picture that you will keep your good sounding guitar and sell the great sounding one.
Oh... there are magical sounding guitars ... they exist and pity that you cannot believe that.
Ok... sino ang mga mayaman na musician/singer dito? Kasing yaman ni Arnel?
I am never on top of everyone else... I never said that. I might just have better ears...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 12:09:21 AM
i was under the impression that the GAS-afflicted here keep shuffling gear around kasi, like me, they can't afford to just buy everything they want to try and gig with it for a few months. so ang solution is to sell what you have, no matter how much you like it, to afford the experimentation. and, in my case at least, i'm not really looking for "the best" or "the one" anymore. I just want to play something else, something different from what i already have.
i absolutely adored my '52ri. i thought it was the one guitar i'd play for the rest of my life. but i felt the itch and didnt have the cash. so i sold it when i wanted to experiment with SGs. at the time, i was thinking it'd be easy to buy it back if i wanted, of course. but it was soon sold. to someone who brought it to canada. :lol: so thats that. a few months later, scored another "The One" tele, then i itched again so i sold it too. :lol:
isnt that what its all the gear shuffling is about? scratching the itch? or ako lang yung ganun kalala ang need to play something new (not new as in brand new; just new to me)?
I think the hardest thing to do is to stop -- and definitely at some point in time -- we have to. But one advantage being exposed to the boutique gear is knowing that you don't have to keep on going around in circles every time that there is a new product. Most of the great sounding boutique gear surpass the fad of the moment. Even the maligned KLON has its use thats hard to surpass. Unfortunately, a lack of understanding on how to use the KLON seems to bias people against boutique gear.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 12:16:59 AM
This is why everybody in this forum is kicking your ass!!
People here would agree that you own the best equipment that money can buy, but that does not give you to right to diss on other peoples equipment in this forum. Konting respeto sa mga tao dito Mr. Alex, mas marami pa rin ditong musikero kesa collector!!! And also to add, you have not earned enough respect to lecture us on what is the best tone our money can buy.
Just to clarify being at the top meant being at the top of the 'tone' spectrum not anywhere else. I do not need respect. I am just being frank about equipment. I have nothing to gain and nothing to profit from. As much as I want to say that cheap gear deserves respect, it does not. And I cannot lie about that as an opinion. On the other hand, statements such as GREAT TONE ISN'T ALWAYS EXPENSIVE does not give the right to others to diss people who spend on equipment. So, I am just providing the other side of the story.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bryanarzaga on February 19, 2011, 12:17:26 AM
tone, tone tone paki tone ki tone alimango sa suba...etc
@maxi how much was that acoustic of yours?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 12:19:01 AM
i saw and heard the video. the baker sounds just like my squier (but maybe with better notes).
As I said, if you would buy a guitar online based on a cellphone recording then I guess your observation would be valid. I suggest you listen to the Bamboo track after 'Kailan'. I think track number 5.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 12:21:16 AM
As I said, if you would buy a guitar online based on a cellphone recording then I guess your observation would be valid. I suggest you listen to the Bamboo track after 'Kailan'. I think track number 5.
is this it http://aimini.net/view/?fid=zveJF1k2xeFZZWJO5RSR
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: rolandiggy on February 19, 2011, 12:50:19 AM
As I said, if you would buy a guitar online based on a cellphone recording then I guess your observation would be valid. I suggest you listen to the Bamboo track after 'Kailan'. I think track number 5.
With all due respect sir firemodel55, could you please post a better recorded demo of your Baker using your boutique amps and gears so as to erased the imprinted image of that infamous video in most of us forumers.
Nope. Just to rule out the factors you've mentioned in your argument that the video was captured by a mobile phone camera and the Baker through Elegee's amp.
Sir, I know that you have access to high end recording gears and stuff or even a high end studio, could you please post a demo/sound clip of your Baker and boutique gears so as for us to hear the "magical tone".
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 01:45:43 AM
Sir, I know that you have access to high end recording gears and stuff or even a high end studio, could you please post a demo/sound clip of your Baker and boutique gears so as for us to hear the "magical tone".
Unfortunately, I do NOT have any recording equipment. Early on, I realized that recording is NOT for me. So I cannot demo or provide a sound clip. Very Sorry hindi ko talaga alam ang area ng recording. You have to hear it and play it for yourself. I think somebody wanted to also but I was very busy at that time to schedule something.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 01:59:59 AM
with the amount of money fm55 will be paying Mr. Yaron, syempre kahit sinong seller/builder naman siguro sasakyan kung ano yung trip ni fm55, kung trip ni fm55 yung may magic na gitara syempre sasabihin din nung seller (yaron) oo sir may magic yan sir...pero syempre may background music "sasakyan kita sa lahat ng gusto mo..." :-D
hindi ba the magic is in the fingers?...pabilisan ng kamay :-D
I think you judge Mr. Gil Yaron too harshly. Of all the luthiers on earth, he was honest enough to say that his US$600 maple top is no different in sound from his US$1600 maple top. So I asked him why is it so expensive? He said that the US$1600 top has bragging rights because its maple from the 50s presumably from the same batch as the late 50s bursts. But otherwise, figure and sound are similar to the other batches of maple he has. On his part, Gil has also discouraged me to spend so much. My build would be the most expensive Les Paul that he would charge anyone thats why he wanted to do his best because medyo nahihiya siya. But from the outset, I was more concerned with tone and so was he for this build. Up to this point in time, hindi di pa ma-finalize ang wood because he wants to exhaust all the arriving batches until build time.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 02:03:30 AM
Haha. wag ka na umasa bro at masasaktan ka lang. sa totoo lang wala na nga pupuntahan yung thread na to eh. mejo nonsense na. haha. wala naman magpapatalo dito eh. tapos may minions pa si alex. hahaha. hay nako
*i will run away and hide, or not cause i have balls. not afraid to get in a little trouble.
Wala akong minions... these are solely my opinions so don't think I ask people to post for my side.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on February 19, 2011, 02:22:53 AM
Sa palagay ko lang, walang famous luthier sa tamang katinuan na magki-claim in public na ang gawa nya ay magical...pero syempre kung mambobola sya ng cliente sasabihin nya yun kasi between him and the client lang naman yun at alam naman natin kasama ang pambobola sa negosyo...di ba sir.
Tama na sigurong sabihing maganda at good sounding ang gawa ni Yaron, pero sabihing magical parang katawa-tawa na yata yun...in my opinion.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 02:31:50 AM
So what you are trying to say here is that if a musician never owned equipment like yours you were not successful as a musician?
(Nope... I did mention that some of them are talented right? Read it again.)
I wonder how will people like Ernie Delgado, Rey Sanchez, Boy Adan, Jondi Villacorta, Cezar Aguas react to your statement.
(I wouldn't know. As you said, they can make a living out of being a musician so I guess they are talented. But the nice thing is I don't hear them whine about how hard it is being a musician with obligations.)
They have pretty good gear but not as high as yours. And yet not only they were able to feed their family and send their kids to school, they produced some of the awesome guitar sounds that inspired me to this day. NO CUSTOM GEAR TO BE FOUND. Oh yeah, they have a little bit of talent too.
(So you say... not inspiring to me but not any less inspiring to others I guess. By the way, I HAVE NO CUSTOM GEAR. NONE OF MY STUFF IS CUSTOMIZED FOR ME IN ANY WHICH WAY. Just great sounding gear.)
I don't think this is a cliche, believe me, several years from now, somebody will also agree to what I just claimed. Richie Sambora in Guitar World January 1989 issue (Robert Cray is the cover) told the magazine how he was astounded by the bluesmen in the delta. They have the cheapest guitar with two strings missing and the remaining four, one of them was tied at the headstock para lang magamit pa. And Sambora said that they produced more emotion than any other he has heard. Unless you can be better than the said bluesmen AND Richie Sambora - yaman din lamang na gusto mo ang Bon Jovi - which I like to by the way (oh diba, we have similar tastes too! Hehehehe....), that will not be cliche. It will always be a standard of some sorts.
Alex, no one doubts here that you have way way way way way way way way way more expensive and better gear than most of us could only dream in a lifetime. And no one challenges your theory in tone because tama naman talaga. It's just that it is really not feasible for the majority of us. That being said, you cannot stop us from playing and making music no matter what our disposition in life. Hindi lang naman pang mayaman ang musika e. Tell that to Robert Johnson. Remember what I said to you about Max Rufo's pickups? Let me repeat it my friend R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Do not insinuate others that they have bad gear or have less knowledge than you when it comes to tone.
(There are other people in Manila who have way way way way way way way way more expensive gear than I do. In comparison to the people abroad, my stuff is nothing but a small fraction of what they own. Again, I want to highlight the fact that there are bad sounding expensive gear but my main point is that the expensive that sounds great and that delivers is way way way way way above the best of the cheap gear. I am NOT stopping you from playing music, none of my posts have requested that from anybody. I am just saying that from another perspective the title and message of the t.s. is b.s. When it comes to knowledge about good sounding equipment, some opinions are better than others because kung pareho lang mga opinion ng tao, then nobody would be producing good/great sounding equipment. For example, I will take Gene Baker's advice over Max Rufo anytime of day even if they are both free advice. You know why? Kasi mas magaling si Gene Baker. )
(Max Rufo's work is crappy and not worth it. Saan na ba nga pala ang pickups niya? I say like it is. When there is something to praise, I will praise it. If something deserves disdain so be it. Its not a matter of respect (para kang AFP), its a matter of being truthful.)
I have a friend here in PM who has more or less the same gear as yours and yet he NEVER once told me that "ayoko yang gamit mo, pangit tunog" or "ayoko yang tube screamer, walang laban yan sa Timmy ko". In fact he appreciates that I can make the best out of what I got. In fact he always invite me for a jam session over pizza and coke.
(I salute him for being polite and being a gentleman. Did you care to ask him what he honestly thought of your tone?)
But then again, if you cannot understand what 95% percent of us here in PM can, then I guess, Joric is right. Let Alex be Alex, or as one said - SIGE ALEX IKAW NA LANG ANG LAHAT. We will just be better versions of ourselves.
(If you think that the 95% is so right, why don't you post what you post here on gearpage in the U.S.? Why don't you show the products of Mang Max and publish the comments on his products sa gearpage? Have an American familiar with pickups to order his product and get them to comment. Baliktad nga eh... sa inyo na nga LAHAT kasi parang may sariling mundo dito na hindi naman tugma sa labas.)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 19, 2011, 02:47:08 AM
@Fm55
gearpage? ito ba un
feature=related
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: samuelfianza on February 19, 2011, 02:55:51 AM
Actually some Black Metal bands who have access to High-End Equipments chose to record their songs with crappy gears. Why? because like the RAW tone.
for the Nth time, TONE IS SUBJECTIVE.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kurtseth on February 19, 2011, 02:57:16 AM
Sa palagay ko lang, walang famous luthier sa tamang katinuan na magki-claim in public na ang gawa nya ay magical...pero syempre kung mambobola sya ng cliente sasabihin nya yun kasi between him and the client lang naman yun at alam naman natin kasama ang pambobola sa negosyo...di ba sir.
Tama na sigurong sabihing maganda at good sounding ang gawa ni Yaron, pero sabihing magical parang katawa-tawa na yata yun...in my opinion.
Ang problema sa Pinoy hirap magtiwala sa foreigner kasi akala nila parating nambobola kasi ganoon ang 'style' ng mga luthier dito sa Pinas maliban lang kay Arie Hipolito. Tinanong ko kay Cliff Cultreri, adviser sa tone ni Steve Vai at Joe Satriani, on what makes a good luthier? Ang sagot niya: "I don't know with God. You can give the same materials, skill and training to two different luthiers and yet one produces a magical instrument while the other doesn't."
Do you really think tingin ko na negosyo lang si Gil Yaron? I suggest you go to his website and read thru 128 pages of his les paul build thread. If anything, SIYA pa ang lugi sa presyo niya sa akin. At that level of expertise, dedication, attention to detail -- his fees are cheap. I am telling you that not even Gibson Custom Historic can pull off what he is doing (By the way, for the uninformed, Gibson USA is not really making money and might be heading to bankruptcy). He even is putting more product and effort into his work than Johann Gustavsson. For one, Gil can provide me papers for the wood he uses on his guitar which Gibson does not. Gil makes his own pickup rings because it affects the sound which by the way is accurate to the original bursts. He uses the original hyde glue and fish glue that Gibson does not use. He uses the correct wood species of the original vintage bursts and Gibson does not use the original species anymore on their VOS models and re-issues. Gil carves out old mah jong blocks to make pickup selector switch caps to replicate the old material that the vintage burst used. Gil's bridge assembly uses the old zinc pot formula that not even Gibson uses for their ABR. Gil uses the old vintage italian sourced inlays that gibson used for the vintage bursts that Gibson does NOT use today. Gil's headstock tilt is within the 4 degrees and 4.1 degrees of the original bursts. He uses close accurate holy veneer on the headstock of the vintage bursts. Gil makes his own Les Paul knobs because none of the current manufacturers such as allparts or gotoh can do it right. Gil follows the correct fret spacing on the vintage bursts and does not use the current fret formula of Gibson on the Les Paul Standard. Etc.... I suggest you read the 128 pages on the build before you judge the guy kasi nagmumukha wala kang alam sa taong hinuhusgahan mo.
By the very fact that you cannot comprehend the concept means that you have not encountered a magical instrument --- hindi ka pa fully developed sa pag assess ng magandang instrument. No hard feelings but its really difficult and not easy to learn.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 03:01:16 AM
Actually some Black Metal bands who have access to High-End Equipments chose to record their songs with crappy gears. Why? because like the RAW tone.
for the Nth time, TONE IS SUBJECTIVE.
Sigurado ka ba? Nasa studio ka ba noong na-record ang buong plaka? Kung minsan lip service lang iyan para sa endorsement nila. But point taken, however I don't see or hear them record with the crappy gear sold sa jb, behringer, lazer, etc. Kahit papaano may minimum standard sila na HINDI subjective.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: firemodel55 on February 19, 2011, 03:09:17 AM
Yup the same one in good humor. But despite its flaws, its a much superior and healthier forum than this one because it has higher standards. Doon may mga experts na credible beside fake experts, dito halos walang expert -- kasama na ako sa kulang ng expertise.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on February 19, 2011, 03:38:22 AM
Oh well, we are all entitled to our own opinion and I never claimed to be a tone expert and I will never claim to be one.
But, I also believe that great tone isn't always expensive. As far as I know, Jimi Hendrix used ordinary strats and the magic that he created with his music came from his fingers, his heart and his soul and not from the instrument...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: xelalien on February 19, 2011, 07:06:18 AM
re: great tone isn't always expensive
gusto ko rin itong vid :D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: stringman on February 19, 2011, 07:11:36 AM
Actually, it's really cool for Alex to let others test his equipment so they have the chance to experience it. I heard Alex is a really open guy when it comes to testing his equipment. We can take it from him that he is not really a recording type of guy, and the best way to check what he is talking about is to test it our selves.
But Alex I beg to disagree if you believe you are at the top of your tone. Sometime in the future bibili at bibili ka parin nang gamit, tulad ng mga tao dito. 2 reasons lang naman kung bakit umiikot ang mga gamit dito sa selling, it's either nag sawa ka sa gear mo at gusto mo sumubok ng iba or it's either you have no use for it anymore.
Pero ika nga tone is subjective, nasa taong nakikinag yan. But again tone does not have to be expensive. Tone is about creativity and not just about the high end or cheap gears.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: stringman on February 19, 2011, 07:16:10 AM
By the very fact that you cannot comprehend the concept means that you have not encountered a magical instrument --- hindi ka pa fully developed sa pag assess ng magandang instrument. No hard feelings but its really difficult and not easy to learn.
And this Mr. Alex does not make you the expert in PM when it comes to choosing the right gear.
For me the magic happens when the right instrument is in the right hands irregardless kung mahal or mura pa yan.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 19, 2011, 07:21:42 AM
I wonder how will people like Ernie Delgado, Rey Sanchez, Boy Adan, Jondi Villacorta, Cezar Aguas react to your statement.
(I wouldn't know. As you said, they can make a living out of being a musician so I guess they are talented. But the nice thing is I don't hear them whine about how hard it is being a musician with obligations.)
You didn't hear them whine but it doesn't mean the problem isn't there. By the way, do you know some of them personally?
They have pretty good gear but not as high as yours. And yet not only they were able to feed their family and send their kids to school, they produced some of the awesome guitar sounds that inspired me to this day. NO CUSTOM GEAR TO BE FOUND. Oh yeah, they have a little bit of talent too.
(So you say... not inspiring to me but not any less inspiring to others I guess. By the way, I HAVE NO CUSTOM GEAR. NONE OF MY STUFF IS CUSTOMIZED FOR ME IN ANY WHICH WAY. Just great sounding gear.)
See, I didn't ask for your opinion if their playing inspires you but there you go telling me that it doesn't. Things like that irked a lot of people here.
I have a friend here in PM who has more or less the same gear as yours and yet he NEVER once told me that "ayoko yang gamit mo, pangit tunog" or "ayoko yang tube screamer, walang laban yan sa Timmy ko". In fact he appreciates that I can make the best out of what I got. In fact he always invite me for a jam session over pizza and coke.
(I salute him for being polite and being a gentleman. Did you care to ask him what he honestly thought of your tone?)
So now you are trying to insinuate that he is a liar? For the record I didn't ask him how my tone is, siya mismo ang lumalapit sa akin that I sound pretty good. Yes I accept criticisms here and there (i.e. bawas lang ng kaunti sa bass mismo na, dagdag ng gain para lumabas ang overtones etc...). Pero kung pangit talaga ang tunog ko, he will tell me.
You never had a recording experience, so have you been in a band? The way you present yourself in PM, it seems you were never in a band or either you quit or fired. Hindi kasi ganiyan ang ugali ng musikero. Musicians have different opinions and even are as opinionated as yours pero marunong rumespeto. Kaya duda talaga ako if you know the life we pro musicians really live.
Now if you have never been a pro musician in your life, how can a lot of people give creedence to your opininated views? Kung si Malmsteen nga maraming naasar sa kaniya kasi nga akala niya siya lang lagi ang tama, ikaw pa kaya?
Learn to respect us, we might listen to you. but then if not and you keep saying na wala akong pakialam kung hindi ka paniniwalaan, you definitely are in a world of your own.
Hang on to your Baker and Yarron and Suhr while you can, di mo yan madadala sa kabilang buhay.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: stringman on February 19, 2011, 07:29:46 AM
Magic in the instrument? There's no such thing. Too many Walt Disney movies...........
Parang baraha, yung magic nasa magician na marunong gumamit.
Magandang gamit? Yes I agree.............. It does give an edge.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Taoistguitarist on February 19, 2011, 07:53:46 AM
sometimes the best answer is "oo na" :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: jbarot on February 19, 2011, 08:31:26 AM
it's getting too hard to ignore...
while i agree that one should have respect and humility in voicing out an opinion, i think we can disagree with each other's views/beliefs without bringing out the worst in ourselves. we all know that this argument will not accomplish anything but resentment.
in the grand scheme of things, it's just a [strawberry] guitar :roll:
i think we're better than this, folks. nakakahiya na sa mga co-forumites and lurkers...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: samuelfianza on February 19, 2011, 11:29:23 AM
Sigurado ka ba? Nasa studio ka ba noong na-record ang buong plaka? Kung minsan lip service lang iyan para sa endorsement nila. But point taken, however I don't see or hear them record with the crappy gear sold sa jb, behringer, lazer, etc. Kahit papaano may minimum standard sila na HINDI subjective.
Yes I'm Sure, because it's hard to produce bad tone with Great equipments.
Just listen to some of those KVLT BANDS, I'm sure MAIIRITA KA SA TONE sa sobrang RAW, pero yun ang gusto nila eh.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 19, 2011, 11:43:57 AM
Haha :)) natawa ako dito bro. pabayaan na natin. loser siguro to nung bata kaya ganyan hahahahaha. virgin =))
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 19, 2011, 11:50:33 AM
^^^ bwahahahaha! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: varied_ventures on February 19, 2011, 12:18:41 PM
Iba't iba naman ang preferences talaga ng tao. Wala sa pagiging high end or low end ng gear. For me, I appreciate my tone if I am inspired and have created good songs out of it because I am a musician and not just a collector of instruments. In a band setting, if the guitar's tone compliments the over-all music of the band, then one can also consider it having a great tone because it fits the band.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: arkeetar on February 19, 2011, 12:29:51 PM
unti unti ko ng naiintindihan at nararamdaman yung difference ng instrument na natural, well setup at yung may balls talaga mas less effort at comportableng gamitin kumpara sa "average" or decent sounding, pero yung user lang talaga ang makakaalam kung alin ang para sa kanya, at hindi malalaman hangga't hindi nakaka try ng iba't ibang klase, at isa pa... meron at merong mas maganda or gaganda sa current setup, hindi dahil olats kundi nag babago o nag iiba ang preference ng user dahil sa experience at improvement ng skill :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kurtseth on February 19, 2011, 02:21:00 PM
unti unti ko ng naiintindihan at nararamdaman yung difference ng instrument na natural, well setup at yung may balls talaga mas less effort at comportableng gamitin kumpara sa "average" or decent sounding, pero yung user lang talaga ang makakaalam kung alin ang para sa kanya, at hindi malalaman hangga't hindi nakaka try ng iba't ibang klase, at isa pa... meron at merong mas maganda or gaganda sa current setup, hindi dahil olats kundi nag babago o nag iiba ang preference ng user dahil sa experience at improvement ng skill :-D
true true :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 19, 2011, 05:42:00 PM
Yup the same one in good humor. But despite its flaws, its a much superior and healthier forum than this one because it has higher standards. Doon may mga experts na credible beside fake experts, dito halos walang expert -- kasama na ako sa kulang ng expertise.
Of course since they're the home of a bigger market, madaming magaling na gigging/recording pros dun and other guitar/music forums vs. sa smaller market and forum natin but I'm not sure that they have higher standards. May mga ibang tao dun ang haba ng sig nila listing all their expensive boteek gear. Akala mo expert magsalita... Pero pag nagpost ng youtube or soundclips nila, olats sa tone at sa skills. You really wonder where the so-called expertise comes from... Then it's up to the readers to sift thru to separate the wheat from the chaff, cuz on the internet anybody can pass himself off as "somebody".
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: KASALANAN on February 19, 2011, 06:18:35 PM
Of course since they're the home of a bigger market, madaming magaling na gigging/recording pros dun and other guitar/music forums vs. sa smaller market and forum natin but I'm not sure that they have higher standards. May mga ibang tao dun ang haba ng sig nila listing all their expensive boteek gear. Akala mo expert magsalita... Pero pag nagpost ng youtube or soundclips nila, olats sa tone at sa skills. You really wonder where the so-called expertise comes from... Then it's up to the readers to sift thru to separate the wheat from the chaff, cuz on the internet anybody can pass himself off as "somebody".
saktong sakto sir.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: imarco on February 19, 2011, 06:29:11 PM
parang ito din. . .kayo na bahala. . .hehe
sns=em
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 19, 2011, 07:39:46 PM
I said what I have to say. So I will stop here on this thread unless there is some healthy talks. I guess I made my point across and a lot share the same opinions as mine.
Ok na it stops here. Let us enjoy ourselves playing guitar. Be it expensive or cheap. Just make music with it.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 19, 2011, 07:47:33 PM
And may I add, that I do respect his knowledge of tone and gear.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: william251082 on February 20, 2011, 01:34:46 AM
Making a fine quality instrument is an artform in itself, no one can deny that fact, kung hindi mahalaga ang quality gear eh di sana pala lahat ng gitarista nag lumanog gitara na lang dahil mura. Kahit ikaw pa ang pinaka talented na tao sa balat ng lupa, hindi mo pa rin mapapatunog archtop ang strat :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ernestjulian on February 20, 2011, 02:54:34 AM
unti unti ko ng naiintindihan at nararamdaman yung difference ng instrument na natural, well setup at yung may balls talaga mas less effort at comportableng gamitin kumpara sa "average" or decent sounding, pero yung user lang talaga ang makakaalam kung alin ang para sa kanya, at hindi malalaman hangga't hindi nakaka try ng iba't ibang klase, at isa pa... meron at merong mas maganda or gaganda sa current setup, hindi dahil olats kundi nag babago o nag iiba ang preference ng user dahil sa experience at improvement ng skill :-D
eto ang mismo.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ernestjulian on February 20, 2011, 12:11:18 PM
Then keep your good sounding guitars! Still, I cannot picture that you will keep your good sounding guitar and sell the great sounding one.
Oh... there are magical sounding guitars ... they exist and pity that you cannot believe that.
Ok... sino ang mga mayaman na musician/singer dito? Kasing yaman ni Arnel?
I am never on top of everyone else... I never said that. I might just have better ears...
First of all, if your great-sounding guitar is of more value than your good-sounding one, value in terms of monetary, then it is only right by common sense that you sell your great-sounding guitar, if you're in desperate need of money. And this is not about myself. I'm speaking on behalf of everyone here.
Anyone who believes that there are magical guitars is a consummate fool! Again, the guitar becomes magical-sounding because of the one who plays it. You're the one who's pitiful Alex, not me. Go get yourself a life! Or better yet, a secret lover.
Ang sabi mo, si Arnel lang ang mayaman na musikero dito. Which is an absolute baloney! Hindi mo naman sinabi nung una na kasing yaman, sabi mo lang sya lang ang mayaman. Pag sinabi mo kasi yung "kasing yaman", ibig sabihin nun e may comparison. Pwedeng wala siyang kasing yaman pero may mga mayayaman din. Gets mo? Sarah Geronimo, early on her career, gets paid a total of 400,000php per four (4) songs. She has been in the music and showbusiness for quite sometime now. 7-8 years maybe. Do the math.
No, Alex, you don't have better ears and that is a fact!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: arkeetar on February 20, 2011, 05:46:28 PM
tantantantantantanan.... :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 20, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
ayaw! hehe pero ako nag move on na, pare-parehas naman may point, mahirap lang talagang intindihin ng karamihan kung san nanggagaling si fm55 :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 20, 2011, 06:20:11 PM
:evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: lam nyo mga bords tuwing nababasa ko mga post dito imbes na mainis ako natatawa na nga ako e. :lol: napapa ben tisoy mannerism tuloy ako. :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: arkeetar on February 20, 2011, 06:22:38 PM
:evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol: lam nyo mga bords tuwing nababasa ko mga post dito imbes na mainis ako natatawa na nga ako e. :lol: napapa ben tisoy mannerism tuloy ako. :evil:
balita ko patay na si ben tisoy.... hahaha :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 20, 2011, 06:24:56 PM
ayaw! hehe pero ako nag move on na, pare-parehas naman may point, mahirap lang talagang intindihin ng karamihan kung san nanggagaling si fm55 :lol:
I absolutely understand where the fellow is coming from. Pero syempre pards, 'di lang basta dapat intindihin yung tao at palampasin ang mga ginagawa at sinasabi nya. Dapat nya ding malaman na may tamang paraan ng pananalita. Pero sabi nga ng iba, hopeless case na yung tao. :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 20, 2011, 06:31:13 PM
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: vhunter on February 20, 2011, 07:44:00 PM
Some if not most of alex's observatons are true. when i have good guitars, i sell them after a while but it eventually got to a point where i stopped selling the guitars because i liked them so much. In my case, the ones I've kept are the really expensive ones. I also have one cheaper guitar that I would never sell but thats more of the exception than the rule.
In the end, i believe you get what you pay for. There are alot of good guitars out there but there are also a bunch of great ones. Ive been fortunate enough to go through alot of guitars. You dont need a great one to make music.. just a passable one.. however I cant deny that there is magic in some high end instruments.
My 2 cents - Good guitars really sit at the 80k to 100k level. Its very very hard to find a good one below that range. There are some below.. but youll only know when you play a good guitar. I guess alex's message which is truncated in this thread is that.. "guys save up so you can all reach that level of instrument, because it is better!". Id like to add that no one needs it.. but its really nice when you get there.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 20, 2011, 07:51:54 PM
Let's leave Alex to his own. You are actually adding fuel to the fire by trying to challenge him that he is wrong. Alam ko he somewhat enjoy it pag sinasagot siya.
Napatunayan ko talaga sa sarili ko na Alex is a believer in the "tone is in the wallet" principle. He will NEVER believe that our humble equipment will not sound good. It's a way to justify his purchases.
His knowledge in guitar tones is credible. No one argues with that. He has great gear, no one argues with that. And for that, we have to respect him. I am learning to.
It's just his attitude is really bad. And from what I observed from his posts, he is really not a musician. He is more of a tone connoiseur. I'd like to believe that he has never been in a band. Or nagkabanda, paminsan minsan jammingan lang. I don't think he ever gigged with certain regularity. Yung ugali niyang ganun walang tatagal na banda sa kaniya. Hindi kasi marunong rumespeto ng paniniwala ng iba. I really hope I am proven wrong as I am writing this about my statement na hindi siya nagkabanda
Pabayaan na natin siya. In fact a lot of us here nakakaangat pa kay Alex nang milya milya. Remember this is Philmusic not Philgear Philtone or what have you. I truly believe the main purpose of this forum is all about music and musicians, secondary lang ang gear. To us that are pro musicians who tread the boards in bars and clubs in showbands and cover bands, angat tayo kay Alex kasi we were able to use our talent to a good purpose - to entertain people after a hard days work, kahit sandali makalimot nang problema, makagawa ng bagong kaibigan at pagbatiin ang mga nagkagalit.
Sa mga musikerong gumagawa ng mga kumposisiyon Angat din kayo kay Alex kasi balang araw yang mga isinulat niyo magbibigay ng kaunting inspirasiyon sa mga tao. Malay niyo yung mga kanta niyo magbibigay ng tamang landas sa maraming tao, who knows?
And we don't need expensive equipment to do these. Time and time again we have read, seen heard on records that great tones can be had with just the right amount of money in our wallet. That is not to say that boutique equipment has no place in the music world. Meron din. I doubt it if even I have a Yarron I would gig with it. Sa dami ng nakawan dito.....Di baleng dala ko ang Mexican Fender Strat ko. Manakaw man, di ganung kamahal, madali pang palitan.
We have lots going for us. At papatulan lang ang mga whims ni Alex is just a waste of time. I have to say that it's not worth it. Respetuhan na lang then live and let live.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 20, 2011, 07:59:49 PM
Some if not most of alex's observatons are true. when i have good guitars, i sell them after a while but it eventually got to a point where i stopped selling the guitars because i liked them so much. In my case, the ones I've kept are the really expensive ones. I also have one cheaper guitar that I would never sell but thats more of the exception than the rule.
In the end, i believe you get what you pay for. There are alot of good guitars out there but there are also a bunch of great ones. Ive been fortunate enough to go through alot of guitars. You dont need a great one to make music.. just a passable one.. however I cant deny that there is magic in some high end instruments.
My 2 cents - Good guitars really sit at the 80k to 100k level. Its very very hard to find a good one below that range. There are some below.. but youll only know when you play a good guitar. I guess alex's message which is truncated in this thread is that.. "guys save up so you can all reach that level of instrument, because it is better!". Id like to add that no one needs it.. but its really nice when you get there.
Agree on them.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 20, 2011, 08:13:09 PM
My 2 cents - Good guitars really sit at the 80k to 100k level. Its very very hard to find a good one below that range. There are some below.. but youll only know when you play a good guitar.
I do think it's been getting easier, though.
I remember going through a number of dreadnought acoustic guitars in a music store a few years back - Martins, Gibsons, Takamines, Breedloves... and they were going for AUD2000 and way up, depending on the model. They sounded great -- as good as a dreadnought can be. Then I pulled down a Cole Clark that was just under AUD900 which went on to put a smile on my face. So, I went ahead and bought the thing and didn't even look back.
Now, anybody can say that I bought a piece of crap. But if it's enough to make me to stop salivating over guitars more than twice its value, then it's a pretty good guitar in my book.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: vhunter on February 20, 2011, 08:19:56 PM
I remember going through a number of dreadnought acoustic guitars in a music store a few years back - Martins, Gibsons, Takamines, Breedloves... and they were going for AUD2000 and way up, depending on the model. They sounded great -- as good as a dreadnought can be. Then I pulled down a Cole Clark that was just under AUD900 which went on to put a smile on my face. So, I went ahead and bought the thing and didn't even look back.
Now, anybody can say that I bought a piece of crap. But if it's enough to make me to stop salivating over guitars more than twice its value, then it's a pretty good guitar in my book.
Actually you do have a point.. because the PRS mira is about 1200 used and 1600 new and it is FANTASTIC! You cant mess up a guitar like that. I sold mine here for below 50k and thats a really good guitar! (however i did sell it .. hahaha)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 20, 2011, 08:33:56 PM
I remember going through a number of dreadnought acoustic guitars in a music store a few years back - Martins, Gibsons, Takamines, Breedloves... and they were going for AUD2000 and way up, depending on the model. They sounded great -- as good as a dreadnought can be. Then I pulled down a Cole Clark that was just under AUD900 which went on to put a smile on my face. So, I went ahead and bought the thing and didn't even look back.
Now, anybody can say that I bought a piece of crap. But if it's enough to make me to stop salivating over guitars more than twice its value, then it's a pretty good guitar in my book.
See, just proves the title of the thread.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 20, 2011, 09:15:45 PM
But not the video... (from the OP, not Alex's hiyaw vid). :lol:
Besides... yung gitara sa kwento ko... that was like 40k Pesos... expensive na yun para sa akin. Hehehe.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Filippo on February 20, 2011, 09:41:27 PM
I have heard lots of great guitarists with killer tone in gigs and I don't see them playing PHP200,000++ guitars and lugging expensive tube amps... there are LOTS of them, and I salute all of them... Truth is, I love seeing (and hearing) guitarists do just that, meaning kicking ass with the gear they've got. It reminds me what it's all about... which for me is about making great music more than it being about what guitar I am playing... the kind of music that makes you close your eyes and says [gooey brown stuff] that just sounds soooo good, and why didn't I think of that riff first???!!!
Which is probably what the others were saying too... You don't need to rob a bank to make great music.
In my experience, upgrading gear to expensive stuff doesn't ALWAYS equate to having better tone... nasa timpla pa rin and the proper use of the gear. But what I will not deny though is the fact that having better gear makes the tone chase and playability easier making me focus more on my playing instead of tweaking settings, especially while in a gig...
Also, I think there comes a point where the exponential increase in cost can become an incommensurate increase in tone and playability which the guitarist is more likely to appreciate than the actual audience. But at the end of the day, if it makes you play better and makes you make better music, save up and go for it! My 2 cents worth...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: turiguiliano on February 20, 2011, 09:48:41 PM
oh hai
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: turiguiliano on February 20, 2011, 09:56:36 PM
Tone is in the balls. Check out how the guy in the video positions his guitar. That jack is connected somewhere. Would've been more fun if a hot chick did the demo. In English.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ernestjulian on February 20, 2011, 10:02:13 PM
Oo. at may KJ din =)) konting pangpasaya lang pang patawa "this doesnt help blah" mashado naman seryoso =))
Hindi naman sa KJ. Pero oo -- I say that from time to time kasi meron namang mga taong wala nang dinagdag na positibo sa forum na to. Puro na lang panggagatong ang alam. Mga nagpapataas lang ng post count. You need people like us to balance that. :wink:
May problema ba? :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 22, 2011, 12:47:40 AM
Hindi naman sa KJ. Pero oo -- I say that from time to time kasi meron namang mga taong wala nang dinagdag na positibo sa forum na to. Puro na lang panggagatong ang alam. Mga nagpapataas lang ng post count. You need people like us to balance that. :wink:
May problema ba? :-D
Wala nmn :) kse hinde nmn intended yun to thread a jack eh :) boys will be boys lang :D may isang time lng na may nasungitan nagpapatawa lng nmn parang yung bumara eh wala man lang funny bone sa katawan.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on February 22, 2011, 12:58:06 AM
Ah. Pasabi na lang privately kung ako yun, so I can look back at it and apologize if necessary. Hehehe.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 22, 2011, 01:09:48 AM
Ah. Pasabi na lang privately kung ako yun, so I can look back at it and apologize if necessary. Hehehe.
Haha. bro not you :) nangyare kase may na my un-understood na metaphor eh :> mejo na sungitan nagbibro lng nmn yung tao, kung baga yung kwela sa tropa :) eh parang nasungitan ni lolo :> at pareho png addictus standing nun ^^ hihi.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: obetski on February 22, 2011, 01:15:01 AM
IMO.. yun nga mismo yung spices ng philmusic eh.. may nambabara, may nangungulit, may nagmamarunong, may nag aakalang sya ang may pinakamatalas na tenga sa tone, may seryoso, may pikon etc etc... bottom line may mga taong positibo ang pananaw at nakakapag bigay ng tamang info at inspiration..
in my opinion a magic wand is nothing without the wizard, and the magic wand is bad in the hands of a bad witch
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 22, 2011, 01:20:15 AM
IMO.. yun nga mismo yung spices ng philmusic eh.. may nambabara, may nangungulit, may nagmamarunong, may nag aakalang sya ang may pinakamatalas na tenga sa tone, may seryoso, may pikon etc etc... bottom line may mga taong positibo ang pananaw at nakakapag bigay ng tamang info at inspiration..
in my opinion a magic wand is nothing without the wizard, and the magic wand is bad in the hands of a bad witch
+1 TOMO! :)) perfect METAPHOR
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: ianhisoka47 on February 22, 2011, 04:00:13 AM
LOL my jaw dropped when I saw the guitar.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: raybrig on February 22, 2011, 08:13:00 AM
Haha. bro not you :) nangyare kase may na my un-understood na metaphor eh :> mejo na sungitan nagbibro lng nmn yung tao, kung baga yung kwela sa tropa :) eh parang nasungitan ni lolo :> at pareho png addictus standing nun ^^ hihi.
Amf... parang tabloid na GC, puro blind item. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on February 22, 2011, 12:23:31 PM
Haha. bro not you :) nangyare kase may na my un-understood na metaphor eh :> mejo na sungitan nagbibro lng nmn yung tao, kung baga yung kwela sa tropa :) eh parang nasungitan ni lolo :> at pareho png addictus standing nun ^^ hihi.
ano ang namesung ng taong namisunderstood ang metaphor?? biru biruaness trooperz lang nameyn!! sungit mo tanders?? adik kayo ^^ heehee!!
DA WHO!!??
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on February 22, 2011, 12:27:30 PM
Haha. bro not you :) nangyare kase may na my un-understood na metaphor eh :> mejo na sungitan nagbibro lng nmn yung tao, kung baga yung kwela sa tropa :) eh parang nasungitan ni lolo :> at pareho png addictus standing nun ^^ hihi.
are you referring to me? as i remember i also posted the same comment some pages back when you guys posted the popcorn gifs. still not over it? :lol:
i share the same point with Al. instead of adding to the healthy discussion, the gif images slow the thread down and are strictly threadjacking no matter what intention you may have. sige kung humour ang gusto mo that's cool. my reaction doesn't mean i don't have good humour myself. it's just good humour with wrong timing.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 22, 2011, 01:21:39 PM
are you referring to me? as i remember i also posted the same comment some pages back when you guys posted the popcorn gifs. still not over it? :lol:
i share the same point with Al. instead of adding to the healthy discussion, the gif images slow the thread down and are strictly threadjacking no matter what intention you may have. sige kung humour ang gusto mo that's cool. my reaction doesn't mean i don't have good humour myself. it's just good humour with wrong timing.
Haha. Mmmkay :roll:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 22, 2011, 01:41:22 PM
yun naman pala eh. bakit dinadaan mo pa sa blind item? :lol:
i apologize kung masungit ang dating sa 'yo ng earlier post ko. it wasn't my intent. i was just stating the facts. hope we're all good from here on out. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: obetski on February 22, 2011, 02:02:23 PM
ampotahhh... royal rumble na... :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 22, 2011, 02:10:01 PM
Hahaha. just to make it clear hinde ako yung na offend :) dahil hinde naman addictuz ang stat ko :> hihi
kung sino may PM dito. yun na yun hahahahahaha.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: shodawmoon on February 22, 2011, 02:16:51 PM
Hahaha. just to make it clear hinde ako yung na offend :) dahil hinde naman addictuz ang stat ko :> hihi
kung sino may PM dito. yun na yun hahahahahaha.
.....and may I ask politely... what does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: masterchoxter on February 22, 2011, 02:17:58 PM
@shodawmoon --- ditto bro...
going back to topic,
pretty good vid... was surprised too... though, he didn't really play with a clean tone... i'd love to hear him play with a clean tone and with a different amp... just to see how the guitar really sounds like...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mikki_blinkme on February 22, 2011, 02:17:58 PM
...ng dahil sa presyo vs tone..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: boybangs on February 22, 2011, 02:37:55 PM
Haha. bro not you :) nangyare kase may na my un-understood na metaphor eh :> mejo na sungitan nagbibro lng nmn yung tao, kung baga yung kwela sa tropa :) eh parang nasungitan ni lolo :> at pareho png addictus standing nun ^^ hihi.
there :D hinde pko addictuz. so hinde ako yun ^^ oks na po?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: masterchoxter on February 22, 2011, 02:52:40 PM
there :D hinde pko addictuz. so hinde ako yun ^^ oks na po?
I believe shodawmoon is referring to the connection of your posts with the thread topic... and why not let that forum member with the addictus status to post or comment on his own rather than you doing it for him?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on February 22, 2011, 03:10:29 PM
I believe shodawmoon is referring to the connection of your posts with the thread topic... and why not let that forum member with the addictus status to post or comment on his own rather than you doing it for him?
Well, if we backread. im just replying to posts that are for me. well then, ok. im out
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on February 22, 2011, 03:38:57 PM
Tutal puro OT na ang post...share ko lang ito (not pointing to anybody just a comic relief)
It was fun to join in on the discussion at first, but there comes a point where I lose interest... Haay!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kawal on February 22, 2011, 05:47:07 PM
grabe, paulit-ulit ang mga thread na ganito - naiiba lang ng title. :lol:
ganito lang yan. kung gumastos ka ng mahal para ma-attain yung tone na hinahanap mo, good for you. kung napapatunog mo naman ng maganda yung cheap na gitara, good for you. win-win diba? :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 22, 2011, 07:36:18 PM
bato bato pik na lang...aping api ang mahihirap haha joke
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on February 22, 2011, 08:35:39 PM
grabe, paulit-ulit ang mga thread na ganito - naiiba lang ng title. :lol:
ganito lang yan. kung gumastos ka ng mahal para ma-attain yung tone na hinahanap mo, good for you. kung napapatunog mo naman ng maganda yung cheap na gitara, good for you. win-win diba? :-D
May mga tao kasi na sobrang convince you will only sound good if you sell your soul to luthier to have a gear that can only be made by the rarest of the rarest tonewoods with a pickup that was wound after a millenium of research and with the most rare metal for hardware.
Pag nabili mo sa tindahan, pangit na ang tunog kahit pinaghirapan mo pa ang pagbili nun.
Kaya nga respetuhan na lang para matapos na. Pero maniwala kayo sa akin, mauulit na naman ang thread na ganito as long as there are people na ayaw magpatalo at rumespeto.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: gayusoripper on February 22, 2011, 08:41:03 PM
great tone come's when your a cueshe fan..
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on February 22, 2011, 10:21:21 PM
great tone comes when you're a cashuew nut eater?.?.? :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: raybrig on February 23, 2011, 07:49:46 AM
hindi ko ugaling mang bash ng banda. pero kung ganyan yung idea mo sir ng GREAT TONE. all i can say is wow :-P :roll: :-P :roll: :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 23, 2011, 09:55:47 AM
O sige, para matapos na ang pagtatalo, at sana last na 'to. Ganito lang ang isipin ninyo..
"Hindi lahat ng masarap at nakakabusog na pagkain e steak, baby backribs, cordon bleu, caviar, etc. etc. Minsan, o mas madalas pa sa minsan, e mas masarap pa din sa panlasa ang adobo, dinuguan, balun-balunan, tortang giniling, etc. etc. 'Di magkasing-presyo yung mga pagkain na binanggit ko, may saksakan ng mahal, may mga ubod ng mura naman. Pero pare-pareho lang silang nakakabusog at masasarap sa mga panlasa natin."
Sa huli, kahit ano pa ang kinain natin, ang importante e nabusog tayo at na-satisfy yung gutom natin.
O sige, para matapos na ang pagtatalo, at sana last na 'to. Ganito lang ang isipin ninyo..
"Hindi lahat ng masarap at nakakabusog na pagkain e steak, baby backribs, cordon bleu, caviar, etc. etc. Minsan, o mas madalas pa sa minsan, e mas masarap pa din sa panlasa ang adobo, dinuguan, balun-balunan, tortang giniling, etc. etc. 'Di magkasing-presyo yung mga pagkain na binanggit ko, may saksakan ng mahal, may mga ubod ng mura naman. Pero pare-pareho lang silang nakakabusog at masasarap sa mga panlasa natin."
Sa huli, kahit ano pa ang kinain natin, ang importante e nabusog tayo at na-satisfy yung gutom natin.
Uhmmm... i don't think this is a good analogy. Tone relates more to the taste of the food, rather than the simple matter of fulfilling a basic need (ie, hunger). Maybe playing music fulfills that need, but better tasting food makes the experience of eating more enjoyable, like how better tone makes playing music more enjoyable.
Quote
O ayan, tapos ang usapan.
Hardly... nothing is ever settled here. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: guitarwiz02 on February 24, 2011, 07:19:59 PM
Uhmmm... i don't think this is a good analogy. Tone relates more to the taste of the food, rather than the simple matter of fulfilling a basic need (ie, hunger). Maybe playing music fulfills that need, but better tasting food makes the experience of eating more enjoyable, like how better tone makes playing music more enjoyable.
Hardly... nothing is ever settled here. :-D
Well, yeah..point taken, mate. The analogy I have stated as you have mentioned may not be that good. But I guess it's sensible enough to make people understand that you can just make do with what you currently have, rather than force your way to acquire something that is unreachable or not viable as of the moment. And sometimes, the adobo kicks the steak's a$$ as far as taste is concerned.
Tone relates more to the taste of food, you say..and I agree with you. But there are people who have tasted the best steak they have probably tasted or eaten, but at the end of the day, they'd still end up saying that, adobo for example, or dinuguan is their favorite meal of all time. This goes to say that there are people who have tried, used or acquired top-of-the-line or MIA guitars/equipment, but still settle down with their trusted MIKs or MICs. Why? Maybe because they've found that level of contentment and connection in their instruments that they cannot hold or achieve gettin' in other guitars.
Finally, yes, nothing is ever settled here. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on February 24, 2011, 08:21:10 PM
Well, yeah..point taken, mate. The analogy I have stated as you have mentioned may not be that good. But I guess it's sensible enough to make people understand that you can just make do with what you currently have, rather than force your way to acquire something that is unreachable or not viable as of the moment. And sometimes, the adobo kicks the steak's a$$ as far as taste is concerned.
Tone relates more to the taste of food, you say..and I agree with you. But there are people who have tasted the best steak they have probably tasted or eaten, but at the end of the day, they'd still end up saying that, adobo for example, or dinuguan is their favorite meal of all time. This goes to say that there are people who have tried, used or acquired top-of-the-line or MIA guitars/equipment, but still settle down with their trusted MIKs or MICs. Why? Maybe because they've found that level of contentment and connection in their instruments that they cannot hold or achieve gettin' in other guitars.
Finally, yes, nothing is ever settled here. :-D
I won't bother splitting hairs but if Alex were reading this, he'd have a field day pointing out holes in your argument. It's the above kind of statements he loves to pick apart. Hehe ;-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: heyman on February 25, 2011, 04:40:41 PM
wala namang nananalo dito at natatalo e. you have the expensive gear, OK lang. i have the average price gear, OK lang din. waste of time comparing ones tones to others. we're both musicians and have ears to satisfy our wants, what's great to me might not be great to you or vise versa. for me, i dont think that you can only enjoy playing guitar kung dun ka lang makaexperience ng mamahaling gear. maybe true but like me may nagoobject rin. kaya walang kamatayang VS ito.
may mga artists rin diba na mamahalin yung gears pero they sound bad na hindi natin expected to sound like that? dapat siguro may statistics na lang na makakapagsabi na sa ganitong gear value e your tone will be magical to everybody's ears and you're on top of everybody's gear.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: turiguiliano on February 26, 2011, 01:42:51 PM
I didn't know you had it in you. Good thing you left early last night. LAWL
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mintzkie009 on March 06, 2011, 09:18:55 PM
i'll make my fender squire strat (MIC) sound better than a fender standard strat (MIJ/MIA)... bwahahaha :evil:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: bluefilledmonday on March 08, 2011, 12:20:46 PM
ok itong guitar na nasa video ah naalala ko tuloy yung project guitar ng pinsan ko nung elementary, gawa sa bao ng niyog, hehehe...nice link TS... :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: gayusoripper on March 10, 2011, 07:48:25 PM
after playing over a hundreds of guitars. i can say pick up and amplifier are the big ingredients for such great tone. invest on that more. when im buying new guitar. i focus more on the guitar's playability. and talking about playability. that is where branded guitars and luthiers come. :wink:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kawal on March 10, 2011, 09:01:53 PM
^wow! andami naman nyan ser, a hundreds of guitars! do you think wood also affects it or di masyado?
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: maxi_musikero on March 10, 2011, 09:04:40 PM
Uhmmm... i don't think this is a good analogy. Tone relates more to the taste of the food, rather than the simple matter of fulfilling a basic need (ie, hunger). Maybe playing music fulfills that need, but better tasting food makes the experience of eating more enjoyable, like how better tone makes playing music more enjoyable.
Hardly... nothing is ever settled here. :-D
Hindi ako Agree sayo sir Deltaslim, mawalang galang na, pero mag jam tayo, gamit ko ang fernando strat, ikaw ang gamit mo US fender... sigurado mauubusan ka sa aken, hindi sa nagyayabang ako, may mga taong naka attain na makakuha ng magagandang gamet, oo andyan na at iba ang tunog ng magandang kagamitan. pero asa gumagamit yan brad.
HELLO? nakagamit na ako ng magaganda at mamahaling mga gitara, eh NAPAPATUNOG ko naman ng maayos ang murang gitara katulad ng mamahaling gitara
kagaya na nga ng sinabi ni sir guitarwhiz02, IBA ang lasa ng ADOBONG pilipino sa ibang bansa... kung ang ADOBO na pilipino ang paborito mo. kahit makatikim ka pa ng IBANG adobo sa ibang bansa. IBA parin ang lasa ng ADOBONG PILIPINO gets mo sir?
kung ang point mo ay ang LASA sa pagkain ay ang TONE, Pwes ito brad... ASIN ang nagpapalasa sa lahat ng pagkain... ASIN(tumutugtog) ay ang ang NAGPAPATUNOG ng gitara brad. balewala ang magandang kagamitan kung di marunong ang nagpapatunog, gets mo brad? at kung nasasatisfy ng panlasa mo at nasasarapan ka at nabubusog ka sa KINAKAIN mo. ano pa ang hahanapin mo? SOBRA ka naman brad kung busog ka na nga at maisuka mo na ang kinain mo, tapos maghahanap ka pa ng kakainin?
Immature ka pa sa music brad, ang mga iniidolo nating mga BANYAGA, kaya sila bumibili at gumagamit ng ibat ibang klaseng kagamitan dahil sa TUNOG na hinahanap nila, HINDI sa gano kamahal o gano kamura. GETS Brad? NATURAL hindi sila gagamit na ng mura dahil sikat sila at maraming PERA! pero may mga musikero ding Gumagamit ng sirang mga gamit o napaglumaan na, bket? dahil gusto nila yung tunog eh anong magagawa mo?
sa ating mga pilipino, NAPAKA IMMATURE PA NATIN SA MUSIC, Kase bakit? EH puro METAL ang alam eh, hindi sa naninira ako ng puri, nag metal din ako nung bata ako, napaka babaw kase ng pangunawa ng mga pilipino sa MUSIC, puro rock lang ang karaniwang alam, puro SHRED ang alam, mag bublues kulang naman sa FEEL, wlang GROOVE, di DUMAAN SA BASICS. kung tinatamaan kayo sa siansabi ko, pwes magisip kayo, 20 years ang hahabulin natin sa Musika ng mga Banyaga.
Nagtatalo pa kayo, mas PULPOL pa kayo sa aken eh. MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD. wala naman kayong mga BINATBAT eh, sa totoo lang, karamihan ng andito sa forum ay ang mga NOOBS, at MATAANDA na walang PINAGKATANDAAN sa MUSIKA, MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD at MAG BASA NG NOTA, Bago kayo makipagtalo tungkol sa gamet.
WALA NAMAN KAYONG ALAM KUNDI GAMET, TONE TONE TONE, WALA NAMAN KAYONG BINATBAT PAG TUGTUGAN NA, GETS?!!
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on March 11, 2011, 12:47:59 PM
Im in :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: raybrig on March 11, 2011, 12:56:48 PM
Hindi ako Agree sayo sir Deltaslim, mawalang galang na, pero mag jam tayo, gamit ko ang fernando strat, ikaw ang gamit mo US fender... sigurado mauubusan ka sa aken, hindi sa nagyayabang ako, may mga taong naka attain na makakuha ng magagandang gamet, oo andyan na at iba ang tunog ng magandang kagamitan. pero asa gumagamit yan brad.
HELLO? nakagamit na ako ng magaganda at mamahaling mga gitara, eh NAPAPATUNOG ko naman ng maayos ang murang gitara katulad ng mamahaling gitara
kagaya na nga ng sinabi ni sir guitarwhiz02, IBA ang lasa ng ADOBONG pilipino sa ibang bansa... kung ang ADOBO na pilipino ang paborito mo. kahit makatikim ka pa ng IBANG adobo sa ibang bansa. IBA parin ang lasa ng ADOBONG PILIPINO gets mo sir?
kung ang point mo ay ang LASA sa pagkain ay ang TONE, Pwes ito brad... ASIN ang nagpapalasa sa lahat ng pagkain... ASIN(tumutugtog) ay ang ang NAGPAPATUNOG ng gitara brad. balewala ang magandang kagamitan kung di marunong ang nagpapatunog, gets mo brad? at kung nasasatisfy ng panlasa mo at nasasarapan ka at nabubusog ka sa KINAKAIN mo. ano pa ang hahanapin mo? SOBRA ka naman brad kung busog ka na nga at maisuka mo na ang kinain mo, tapos maghahanap ka pa ng kakainin?
Immature ka pa sa music brad, ang mga iniidolo nating mga BANYAGA, kaya sila bumibili at gumagamit ng ibat ibang klaseng kagamitan dahil sa TUNOG na hinahanap nila, HINDI sa gano kamahal o gano kamura. GETS Brad? NATURAL hindi sila gagamit na ng mura dahil sikat sila at maraming PERA! pero may mga musikero ding Gumagamit ng sirang mga gamit o napaglumaan na, bket? dahil gusto nila yung tunog eh anong magagawa mo?
sa ating mga pilipino, NAPAKA IMMATURE PA NATIN SA MUSIC, Kase bakit? EH puro METAL ang alam eh, hindi sa naninira ako ng puri, nag metal din ako nung bata ako, napaka babaw kase ng pangunawa ng mga pilipino sa MUSIC, puro rock lang ang karaniwang alam, puro SHRED ang alam, mag bublues kulang naman sa FEEL, wlang GROOVE, di DUMAAN SA BASICS. kung tinatamaan kayo sa siansabi ko, pwes magisip kayo, 20 years ang hahabulin natin sa Musika ng mga Banyaga.
Nagtatalo pa kayo, mas PULPOL pa kayo sa aken eh. MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD. wala naman kayong mga BINATBAT eh, sa totoo lang, karamihan ng andito sa forum ay ang mga NOOBS, at MATAANDA na walang PINAGKATANDAAN sa MUSIKA, MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD at MAG BASA NG NOTA, Bago kayo makipagtalo tungkol sa gamet.
WALA NAMAN KAYONG ALAM KUNDI GAMET, TONE TONE TONE, WALA NAMAN KAYONG BINATBAT PAG TUGTUGAN NA, GETS?!!
si sir joric? di maganda magpatunog nang gitara? :-o
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: constipation on March 11, 2011, 01:05:35 PM
Wag na ninyong patulan , gagawa lang ng gagawa ng sangkatutak na account yang trolls na yan
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: 7stringmachine on March 11, 2011, 01:16:50 PM
hahaha. imbecil alert =)) multiple accounts //GG the end is near
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kimhags on March 11, 2011, 01:40:50 PM
Hindi ako Agree sayo sir Deltaslim, mawalang galang na, pero mag jam tayo, gamit ko ang fernando strat, ikaw ang gamit mo US fender... sigurado mauubusan ka sa aken, hindi sa nagyayabang ako, may mga taong naka attain na makakuha ng magagandang gamet, oo andyan na at iba ang tunog ng magandang kagamitan. pero asa gumagamit yan brad.
HELLO? nakagamit na ako ng magaganda at mamahaling mga gitara, eh NAPAPATUNOG ko naman ng maayos ang murang gitara katulad ng mamahaling gitara
kagaya na nga ng sinabi ni sir guitarwhiz02, IBA ang lasa ng ADOBONG pilipino sa ibang bansa... kung ang ADOBO na pilipino ang paborito mo. kahit makatikim ka pa ng IBANG adobo sa ibang bansa. IBA parin ang lasa ng ADOBONG PILIPINO gets mo sir?
kung ang point mo ay ang LASA sa pagkain ay ang TONE, Pwes ito brad... ASIN ang nagpapalasa sa lahat ng pagkain... ASIN(tumutugtog) ay ang ang NAGPAPATUNOG ng gitara brad. balewala ang magandang kagamitan kung di marunong ang nagpapatunog, gets mo brad? at kung nasasatisfy ng panlasa mo at nasasarapan ka at nabubusog ka sa KINAKAIN mo. ano pa ang hahanapin mo? SOBRA ka naman brad kung busog ka na nga at maisuka mo na ang kinain mo, tapos maghahanap ka pa ng kakainin?
Immature ka pa sa music brad, ang mga iniidolo nating mga BANYAGA, kaya sila bumibili at gumagamit ng ibat ibang klaseng kagamitan dahil sa TUNOG na hinahanap nila, HINDI sa gano kamahal o gano kamura. GETS Brad? NATURAL hindi sila gagamit na ng mura dahil sikat sila at maraming PERA! pero may mga musikero ding Gumagamit ng sirang mga gamit o napaglumaan na, bket? dahil gusto nila yung tunog eh anong magagawa mo?
sa ating mga pilipino, NAPAKA IMMATURE PA NATIN SA MUSIC, Kase bakit? EH puro METAL ang alam eh, hindi sa naninira ako ng puri, nag metal din ako nung bata ako, napaka babaw kase ng pangunawa ng mga pilipino sa MUSIC, puro rock lang ang karaniwang alam, puro SHRED ang alam, mag bublues kulang naman sa FEEL, wlang GROOVE, di DUMAAN SA BASICS. kung tinatamaan kayo sa siansabi ko, pwes magisip kayo, 20 years ang hahabulin natin sa Musika ng mga Banyaga.
Nagtatalo pa kayo, mas PULPOL pa kayo sa aken eh. MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD. wala naman kayong mga BINATBAT eh, sa totoo lang, karamihan ng andito sa forum ay ang mga NOOBS, at MATAANDA na walang PINAGKATANDAAN sa MUSIKA, MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD at MAG BASA NG NOTA, Bago kayo makipagtalo tungkol sa gamet.
WALA NAMAN KAYONG ALAM KUNDI GAMET, TONE TONE TONE, WALA NAMAN KAYONG BINATBAT PAG TUGTUGAN NA, GETS?!!
nasobrahan ka ata sa betsin brad. :-D
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on March 12, 2011, 12:28:19 AM
Hindi ako Agree sayo sir Deltaslim, mawalang galang na, pero mag jam tayo, gamit ko ang fernando strat, ikaw ang gamit mo US fender... sigurado mauubusan ka sa aken, hindi sa nagyayabang ako, may mga taong naka attain na makakuha ng magagandang gamet, oo andyan na at iba ang tunog ng magandang kagamitan. pero asa gumagamit yan brad.
HELLO? nakagamit na ako ng magaganda at mamahaling mga gitara, eh NAPAPATUNOG ko naman ng maayos ang murang gitara katulad ng mamahaling gitara
kagaya na nga ng sinabi ni sir guitarwhiz02, IBA ang lasa ng ADOBONG pilipino sa ibang bansa... kung ang ADOBO na pilipino ang paborito mo. kahit makatikim ka pa ng IBANG adobo sa ibang bansa. IBA parin ang lasa ng ADOBONG PILIPINO gets mo sir?
kung ang point mo ay ang LASA sa pagkain ay ang TONE, Pwes ito brad... ASIN ang nagpapalasa sa lahat ng pagkain... ASIN(tumutugtog) ay ang ang NAGPAPATUNOG ng gitara brad. balewala ang magandang kagamitan kung di marunong ang nagpapatunog, gets mo brad? at kung nasasatisfy ng panlasa mo at nasasarapan ka at nabubusog ka sa KINAKAIN mo. ano pa ang hahanapin mo? SOBRA ka naman brad kung busog ka na nga at maisuka mo na ang kinain mo, tapos maghahanap ka pa ng kakainin?
Immature ka pa sa music brad, ang mga iniidolo nating mga BANYAGA, kaya sila bumibili at gumagamit ng ibat ibang klaseng kagamitan dahil sa TUNOG na hinahanap nila, HINDI sa gano kamahal o gano kamura. GETS Brad? NATURAL hindi sila gagamit na ng mura dahil sikat sila at maraming PERA! pero may mga musikero ding Gumagamit ng sirang mga gamit o napaglumaan na, bket? dahil gusto nila yung tunog eh anong magagawa mo?
sa ating mga pilipino, NAPAKA IMMATURE PA NATIN SA MUSIC, Kase bakit? EH puro METAL ang alam eh, hindi sa naninira ako ng puri, nag metal din ako nung bata ako, napaka babaw kase ng pangunawa ng mga pilipino sa MUSIC, puro rock lang ang karaniwang alam, puro SHRED ang alam, mag bublues kulang naman sa FEEL, wlang GROOVE, di DUMAAN SA BASICS. kung tinatamaan kayo sa siansabi ko, pwes magisip kayo, 20 years ang hahabulin natin sa Musika ng mga Banyaga.
Nagtatalo pa kayo, mas PULPOL pa kayo sa aken eh. MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD. wala naman kayong mga BINATBAT eh, sa totoo lang, karamihan ng andito sa forum ay ang mga NOOBS, at MATAANDA na walang PINAGKATANDAAN sa MUSIKA, MAG PRAKTIS NALANG KAYO MGA BRAD at MAG BASA NG NOTA, Bago kayo makipagtalo tungkol sa gamet.
WALA NAMAN KAYONG ALAM KUNDI GAMET, TONE TONE TONE, WALA NAMAN KAYONG BINATBAT PAG TUGTUGAN NA, GETS?!!
Brad, ganiyan ka ba talaga kagaling? Pakitaan mo nga ako ng youtube video o bigyan mo ako ng link sa facebook account mo na nagpapakita ng taglay mong talento na mauubusan si Joric?
Kahit mga senyor sa industriya walang apog na nagsasabi na uubusan nila ang kapwa gitarista kahit baguhan ang katapat nila.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: obetski on March 12, 2011, 12:30:40 AM
Hindi ako Agree sayo sir Deltaslim, mawalang galang na, pero mag jam tayo, gamit ko ang fernando strat, ikaw ang gamit mo US fender... sigurado mauubusan ka sa aken,
pwede ka pumunta sa conspiracy bar para makajam si deltaslim..
after playing over a hundreds of guitars. i can say pick up and amplifier are the big ingredients for such great tone. invest on that more. when im buying new guitar. i focus more on the guitar's playability. and talking about playability. that is where branded guitars and luthiers come. :wink:
:lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: GreenFire on March 12, 2011, 07:00:17 PM
whoa! :-o
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: Al_Librero on March 13, 2011, 12:56:53 AM
Wow... Nagkamali ng binangga yung isa dito. :lol:
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kawal on March 13, 2011, 08:30:17 AM
Hindi ako Agree sayo sir Deltaslim, mawalang galang na, pero mag jam tayo, gamit ko ang fernando strat, ikaw ang gamit mo US fender... sigurado mauubusan ka sa aken
pwede tong gawing sig ah! :-)
speaking of ubusan, the first time i saw joric was at an EB-jam sa purple haze sa tomas morato. i saw him on the slide with his SG tapos nakikipag-"ubusan" sya ng blues with this other guitarist. the other guy would pull some licks then sasagutin ni joric using slide and somehow try to imitate the lick, then so on. then parang mauubusan na yung isa dahil swabe rin naman yung mga sagot ni joric so the other guy did a hammer-on-pull-off lick na obviously eh hindi naman magagaya sa slide. so nagtawanan nalang lahat. ayos yung gig na yon. :lol:
oh by the way, this "other guy" i was referring to was perf de castro. 8-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kimhags on March 13, 2011, 08:33:29 AM
speaking of ubusan, the first time i saw joric was at an EB-jam sa purple haze sa tomas morato. i saw him on the slide with his SG tapos nakikipag-"ubusan" sya ng blues with this other guitarist. the other guy would pull some licks then sasagutin ni joric using slide and somehow try to imitate the lick, then so on. then parang mauubusan na yung isa dahil swabe rin naman yung mga sagot ni joric so the other guy did a hammer-pull-off lick na obviously eh hindi naman magagaya sa slide. so nagtawanan nalang lahat. ayos yung gig na yon. :lol:
oh by the way, this "other guy" i was referring to was perf de castro. 8-)
galing. gusto ko makita yun ah, perf de castro vs sir joric.
hindi na pala nagreply ang pulpol na yun, wala talaga maibubuga yun. naghahanap lang yun ng attention.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kawal on March 13, 2011, 08:39:03 AM
speaking of ubusan, the first time i saw joric was at an EB-jam sa purple haze sa tomas morato. i saw him on the slide with his SG tapos nakikipag-"ubusan" sya ng blues with this other guitarist. the other guy would pull some licks then sasagutin ni joric using slide and somehow try to imitate the lick, then so on. then parang mauubusan na yung isa dahil swabe rin naman yung mga sagot ni joric so the other guy did a hammer-on-pull-off lick na obviously eh hindi naman magagaya sa slide. so nagtawanan nalang lahat. ayos yung gig na yon. :lol:
oh by the way, this "other guy" i was referring to was perf de castro. 8-)
You betcha! hhaha sig worthy indeed!
sayang un sir joric and sir perf jam... ang saya siguro nun mapanood ng live... 8-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: gayusoripper on March 15, 2011, 11:47:37 AM
hyping. just to be unique to the mass thingy
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on March 16, 2011, 11:43:16 AM
Hahaha. Ayos! Ayaw ko po makipagduel; di ko mabalak maging pinakamagaling. I just wanna be the best version of me.
For the record, pinakain ako ng alikabok ni Perf dun sa "Crossroads duel" namin. Ganun din nung college days namin...
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: kimhags on March 16, 2011, 12:07:31 PM
Hahaha. Ayos! Ayaw ko po makipagduel; di ko mabalak maging pinakamagaling. I just wanna be the best version of me.
For the record, pinakain ako ng alikabok ni Perf dun sa "Crossroads duel" namin. Ganun din nung college days namin...
nice one sir!don't stoop to his level kasi guitar playing is not a competition. we're not here to see who's the best but we're here 'cause we share the same passion which is playing the guitar. :-)
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: pitongjerome on March 16, 2011, 12:38:03 PM
nice one sir!don't stoop to his level kasi guitar playing is not a competition. we're not here to see who's the best but we're here 'cause we share the same passion which is playing the guitar. :-)
This
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: deltaslim on March 16, 2011, 03:02:43 PM
Di naman ka-batch (this was in UP Manila). I think I was graduating and Perf was a freshman/sophomore then. Even then, mala Paul Gilbert na siya and my focus was on Delta blues. But our org's tambayan was practically across each other's lang and we sometimes jammed on the school steps or between the pillars.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: mintzkie009 on March 19, 2011, 12:21:36 PM
hahaha... masyado namang OT tong thread nato... hahaha...
John Suhr would know when to use a piece a wood, he rejects a lot of planks. Jon would not know when NOT to use a piece of wood -- I can truly say that non of John Suhr's guitars are as heavy as Jon's heaviest guitars. John winds his own pickups from scratch, Jon uses Korean pickups with some modifications at best or at worst tries to make his own that sound ngo ngo, John Suhr uses Gotoh produced to his specification made to maximize tone and resonance, Gotoh does not even deal with Jon on a personal level. Shall I go on? John Suhr has a super thin nitro finish that maximizes tone, while Jon still uses thick finish that I have no idea as to what it does to tone and resonance. John Suhrs makes consistent guitars in terms of physical properties and shapes. Jon's shapes are not consistent. Finally, the Suhr guys know which guitar has mojo. Jon does not even know when a guitar has mojo.
But of course, mas affordable si Jon and that works to his favor. Mahal ang John Suhr pero malaking layo rin ng quality and attention to detail at tunog ng John Suhr sa elegee. You get what you pay for really...
I own two John Suhrs and even up to this day, elegee guitars are only but 30% in terms of quality and sound of the Suhrs even with so called aftermarket parts.
By the way, I never liked the Klon and I never bought one BECAUSE i dont have a good sounding Fender Deluxe Reverb or Fender Twin Reverb. Unfortunately, I think Jon needed the Klon more than I because of his modified 70s twin reverb which he eventually sold. So, if I were you before you criticize the Klon, make sure you know for WHAT SPECIFIC PURPOSE IT WAS DESIGNED for.
If you're going to reply to my post, make sure you understood it completely. I am not criticizing the Klon. I own one and along w/ my Smokey Tubeless OD those two are my go to OD's. BTW, it is not a oversimplification but an actualization. A big part of the of the cost of higher end gear is the cost of making them.
Title: Re: Great tone isnt always's expensive ( video title ) share ko lang guys
Post by: burnsbhm on March 21, 2011, 09:04:25 PM
Oh. I thought you were the guy who worked for Perfect Pitch back in 1997 yata.
Yup only for a week. It was 1996. I have to take care of some family matters full time kaya hindi ko tinuloy. So in technical terms I actually did not work for Yupangco.