TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: firemodel55 on November 02, 2012, 10:18:34 AM
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1.The winders have no exposure OR
2. They don't have the ear to produce good sounding pickups
Though it maybe tempting to buy local or Asian pickups because of their price or the pogi points of a 'specially' made pickup for you, there is more to consider. Below is an excerpt that I lifted from Tonequest Report that describes the effort in the design of the Gibson Classic 57 pickup by JT Ribiloff.
JTRibiloff was a key member of Gibson's R&D team when the '57 Classic was developed in cooperation with Tom Holmes.
JT Ribiloff:
"By the time I was 21 I had owned over 400 guitars. I've been a guitar freak since I was 14 years old, I'm 44 now, and I'm sure I have had over a 1,000 guitars. I grew up in southern California, so we had access to a lot of guitars and I've owned lots of vintage Les Pauls, SG's, Specials and ES175's. When we started to develop the 57 Classic, I had quite a few vintage pickups at my fingertips, and George Gruhn was very generous in that he would let us go in and pull guitars and hold on to them overnight so that we could find those that really had the ultimate tone. There were significant inconsistencies among all of those old instruments, because you have to remember that these factories existed primarily to make money, and the way to make money was to keep material and labor costs low and build as efficiently as possible. They were trying to use whatever was commercially available, but in the music industry, the quantities of usage are very, very low compared to the automobile industry, for example and that's where the inconsistencies in material came in. The rod stock for the pole pieces in PAF's was basically low carbon steel, and I had different pole pieces analyzed to find out what types of carbon compound and grade of steel they used, because that's a big part of getting that authentic sound. They used plain enamel 42 gauge wire, and the very first PAF's basically used the same magnets that were being used for the P90s at the time. The magnets didn't really change dimensionally until around 1961, but the magnet material in the early PAF's did vary between Alnico II and Alnico IV.
The 57 Classic was specifically aimed at making 'middle of the road' version of the PAF pickup that would sound equally great played through a Fender reverb amp or a Marshall 100watt Super Lead. The final testing came down ot just playing the pickup through a variety of guitar bodies and amps. And it's not just about how the pickup sounds, but also how it feels... At the sae time the Classics were being developed, we were also trying to develop the Historic Les Paul, so we were listinging to a lot of different vintage guitars. There were some vintage pickups that didn't sound good at all, and it wasn't so much due ot the way they were originally made, but the way they had aged. Enamel wire becomes brittle with time, and as it gets brittle, you can get little breaks in it, and the pickup actually stops working on inductance and starts working on capacitance. Some pickups with these breaks can become warmer sounding, and others become really bright.
The final testing of the Classic took place in multiples of different guitars because what I wanted was a good, rudimentary pickup that worked equally well in a broad range of instruments, and I'm sure that was the goal they had i mind with the original PAF's were designed. Any time I tried to duplicate the extremes that we heard in vintage pickups, one style of playing always seemed to suffer. A pickup that sounded particularly great through a Marshall amp for really aggressive kinds of rock music would sound way too dark through a Fender. Then, if you made the pickup sound super sweet, it would sould like a buzz saw ripping through your skull played through a really bright Marshall. Gibson had just started potting pickups prior to the time we were working on the Classic, and they had never wax-potted pickups prior to 1988-89. Fortunately, a the time we were working on the Classics we were also going through a complete re-tooling, so all of the usual restraints and resistance to change had been removed."
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I only know of Mang Max's pickups locally. Are there any noteworthy Asian pickup brands?
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asian PUPs are like cheap sardinas. you wish you weren't eating them, you work hard so you wont have to eat them, but gaddamnit you are eating them now and tomorrow and there's nothing you can do about it - for now.
the thread title is so apples and oranges - or steak and sardinas, to be exact.
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I just wanted to know, does the Kinman pickups fall on this "local" and "asian" category? Kasi dito naman sya ginagawa na and Kinman trained pinoy's yung winders? :)
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Once you get the final specifications down, (type of wire, no. of winds, magnet type & gauss, etc.) I don't think experience or exposure (and ears even!) would matter much afterwards.
Kahit anong boutique brand pa siguro, ibigay nila yung formula sa Asian winders, talo-talo na yan.
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I only know of Mang Max's pickups locally. Are there any noteworthy Asian pickup brands?
I tried his single coil pickup. Sounds good to me on the clean side.
Sa panahon ngayon I don't care about the brand or where it came from. If it sounds good to my ear then I'll use it.
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My choice of pickups happen to be US made. But I prefer to remain open to other options. I think it's ok to have even just a passing interest with developments closer to home.
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1.The winders have no exposure OR
2. They don't have the ear to produce good sounding pickups
Though it maybe tempting to buy local or Asian pickups because of their price or the pogi points of a 'specially' made pickup for you, there is more to consider. Below is an excerpt that I lifted from Tonequest Report that describes the effort in the design of the Gibson Classic 57 pickup by JT Ribiloff.
JTRibiloff was a key member of Gibson's R&D team when the '57 Classic was developed in cooperation with Tom Holmes.
JT Ribiloff:
"By the time I was 21 I had owned over 400 guitars. I've been a guitar freak since I was 14 years old, I'm 44 now, and I'm sure I have had over a 1,000 guitars. I grew up in southern California, so we had access to a lot of guitars and I've owned lots of vintage Les Pauls, SG's, Specials and ES175's. When we started to develop the 57 Classic, I had quite a few vintage pickups at my fingertips, and George Gruhn was very generous in that he would let us go in and pull guitars and hold on to them overnight so that we could find those that really had the ultimate tone. There were significant inconsistencies among all of those old instruments, because you have to remember that these factories existed primarily to make money, and the way to make money was to keep material and labor costs low and build as efficiently as possible. They were trying to use whatever was commercially available, but in the music industry, the quantities of usage are very, very low compared to the automobile industry, for example and that's where the inconsistencies in material came in. The rod stock for the pole pieces in PAF's was basically low carbon steel, and I had different pole pieces analyzed to find out what types of carbon compound and grade of steel they used, because that's a big part of getting that authentic sound. They used plain enamel 42 gauge wire, and the very first PAF's basically used the same magnets that were being used for the P90s at the time. The magnets didn't really change dimensionally until around 1961, but the magnet material in the early PAF's did vary between Alnico II and Alnico IV.
The 57 Classic was specifically aimed at making 'middle of the road' version of the PAF pickup that would sound equally great played through a Fender reverb amp or a Marshall 100watt Super Lead. The final testing came down ot just playing the pickup through a variety of guitar bodies and amps. And it's not just about how the pickup sounds, but also how it feels... At the sae time the Classics were being developed, we were also trying to develop the Historic Les Paul, so we were listinging to a lot of different vintage guitars. There were some vintage pickups that didn't sound good at all, and it wasn't so much due ot the way they were originally made, but the way they had aged. Enamel wire becomes brittle with time, and as it gets brittle, you can get little breaks in it, and the pickup actually stops working on inductance and starts working on capacitance. Some pickups with these breaks can become warmer sounding, and others become really bright.
The final testing of the Classic took place in multiples of different guitars because what I wanted was a good, rudimentary pickup that worked equally well in a broad range of instruments, and I'm sure that was the goal they had i mind with the original PAF's were designed. Any time I tried to duplicate the extremes that we heard in vintage pickups, one style of playing always seemed to suffer. A pickup that sounded particularly great through a Marshall amp for really aggressive kinds of rock music would sound way too dark through a Fender. Then, if you made the pickup sound super sweet, it would sould like a buzz saw ripping through your skull played through a really bright Marshall. Gibson had just started potting pickups prior to the time we were working on the Classic, and they had never wax-potted pickups prior to 1988-89. Fortunately, a the time we were working on the Classics we were also going through a complete re-tooling, so all of the usual restraints and resistance to change had been removed."
Yo tone brother, wanna schedule an educational trip to Mang Max's place to test his pickups? What say you? :)
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I just wanted to know, does the Kinman pickups fall on this "local" and "asian" category? Kasi dito naman sya ginagawa na and Kinman trained pinoy's yung winders? :)
exactly... sa subic at kilala ko isa sa mga winders... :-\
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Yo tone brother, wanna schedule an educational trip to Mang Max's place to test his pickups? What say you? :)
Oh this!
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What are the local and asian pickups btw? :wink:
list?
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I tried his single coil pickup. Sounds good to me on the clean side.
Sa panahon ngayon I don't care about the brand or where it came from. If it sounds good to my ear then I'll use it.
Agree with this... I think we sometimes listen with our brains too much and not with our ears...
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if we could just "try" the pickups first then hear if it sounds good or not on our guitar than buy it first then keep it or sell it..
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asian PUPs are like cheap sardinas. you wish you weren't eating them, you work hard so you wont have to eat them, but gaddamnit you are eating them now and tomorrow and there's nothing you can do about it - for now.
the thread title is so apples and oranges - or steak and sardinas, to be exact.
Nail on the head.
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I heard Mang Max can has (or can make?) an active pickup similar to Blackouts, if not better. I actually want to try those. That caught my attention, really. I would love to try out Bare Knuckles if budget permits. IF. lol
asian PUPs are like cheap sardinas. you wish you weren't eating them, you work hard so you wont have to eat them, but gaddamnit you are eating them now and tomorrow and there's nothing you can do about it - for now.
the thread title is so apples and oranges - or steak and sardinas, to be exact.
A great analogy.
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asian PUPs are like cheap sardinas. you wish you weren't eating them, you work hard so you wont have to eat them, but gaddamnit you are eating them now and tomorrow and there's nothing you can do about it - for now.
the thread title is so apples and oranges - or steak and sardinas, to be exact.
well for me the cheap sardinas are the asian stock pickups, the pickups that are meant just to be replaced but i think there are asian pickups that are a lot better than those asian stock pickups and there are some asian pickups that i have preferred over my previous dimarzios..
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I wonder how Europeans feel about american pickups? Or vice versa?
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Yo tone brother, wanna schedule an educational trip to Mang Max's place to test his pickups? What say you? :)
allergic sha sa local sir. hindi yan sasama.
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Once you get the final specifications down, (type of wire, no. of winds, magnet type & gauss, etc.) I don't think experience or exposure (and ears even!) would matter much afterwards.
Kahit anong boutique brand pa siguro, ibigay nila yung formula sa Asian winders, talo-talo na yan.
Nope... I am afraid not. As such there are elements to sound that cannot be measured by specifications that only the human ear can hear. It applies so much to pickups. If what you said were true, there would only be one specification for PAFs -- in fact, there is only one specification range for PAFs! Yet after years of use, different PAFs will sound different. Read between the lines as described above by JT.
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I tried his single coil pickup. Sounds good to me on the clean side.
Sa panahon ngayon I don't care about the brand or where it came from. If it sounds good to my ear then I'll use it.
More so today, because of so many choices, to really know what sounds good (i.e. to train your ear on what sounds good) you have to really talk and hear the experts. The winder (or brand) matters more so than before.
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Yo tone brother, wanna schedule an educational trip to Mang Max's place to test his pickups? What say you? :)
Not necessary... Simple lang, all you have to do is have Mang Max copy the sound and feel of a 57 Classic by ear. When he gets it dead on, then I will listen to his pickups.
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More so today, because of so many choices, to really know what sounds good (i.e. to train your ear on what sounds good) you have to really talk and hear the experts. The winder (or brand) matters more so than before.
You are correct with so many brands nowadays.
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exactly... sa subic at kilala ko isa sa mga winders... :-\
I don't know if you guys know this but Chris Kinman considers me his first customer from the Philippines. I actually bought a set from him a long time ago and he was asking me for it so he could compare if it sounded different from his current wind today. I was surprised that he remembered me. I spent some time with him and Arie at Subic and he asked me to bring my VOX AC30 so he could voice a new set of single coils for Hank Marvin. By the way, I love his P90s which I consider one of his best. But I consider his product more Western than Asian. The guy knows what sounds good and can hear what sounds good. Up to today, I consider his products tops if you want noiseless single coils.
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Agree with this... I think we sometimes listen with our brains too much and not with our ears...
Unfortunately, there are quite a number who cannot hear... LOL. I would rather that they get their brain short circuited and prescribed gear in the hopes that their ears get trained to what sounds good. For example, the Parokya ni Edgar sound --- sounds better than before but still bad sounding overall. Not to knock them because they have probably improved but at this stage I expect more from them in terms of guitar tone. Look at Ely Buendia's tone from Eraserhead days. It has improved way much more today.
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I don't know if you guys know this but Chris Kinman considers me his first customer from the Philippines. I actually bought a set from him a long time ago and he was asking me for it so he could compare if it sounded different from his current wind today. I was surprised that he remembered me. I spent some time with him and Arie at Subic and he asked me to bring my VOX AC30 so he could voice a new set of single coils for Hank Marvin. By the way, I love his P90s which I consider one of his best. But I consider his product more Western than Asian. The guy knows what sounds good and can hear what sounds good. Up to today, I consider his products tops if you want noiseless single coils.
That's good Alex! At least Chris acknowledges that winding before would differ from the windings today. That's why it's so hard to replicate a vintage sounding pickup with the current materials available on the market. Vintage pickups will always be the old pickups on a very old guitar.
On another note, to compare an Asian to Asian pickup. I tried the Max Rufo single coil on a clean sounding amp. It sounded better compared to the Artec vintage. pero that was just 5 minutes playing with the guitar. But the pickup voicing will always differ with the tone capacitors being used. But as tried and tested, the oil capacitors really work well to deliver the ballsy single coil sound.
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if we could just "try" the pickups first then hear if it sounds good or not on our guitar than buy it first then keep it or sell it..
I have reached the point that there are too many things to try out and not too mention that they have to be customized or built to order first before you get to it try out. Nowadays I look at other things about the manufacturer of guitar gear. For example, when I orded the Gil Yaron there was nothing to try out. At the time, he produced only a few and they were not avaialable anywhere in Asia and only a limited number had reached U.S. shores. It was Cliff Cultreri of Destroy All Guitars who gave his endorsement as the closest to a real burst of all Guitar Luthiers. And look now, we have 4 Gil Yarons in the Philippines.
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I'd like to say I've tried Asian pickups but I don't know any Asian brands who make replacements for Jazzmaster pickups (no, NOT P90s) and Wide Range Humbuckers. I'd trust in someone's ears, but there's a reason I'd want to buy a Curtis Novak. I want to pay for that experience and actual R&D with hundreds of vintage pickups.
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That's good Alex! At least Chris acknowledges that winding before would differ from the windings today. That's why it's so hard to replicate a vintage sounding pickup with the current materials available on the market. Vintage pickups will always be the old pickups on a very old guitar.
On another note, to compare an Asian to Asian pickup. I tried the Max Rufo single coil on a clean sounding amp. It sounded better compared to the Artec vintage. pero that was just 5 minutes playing with the guitar. But the pickup voicing will always differ with the tone capacitors being used. But as tried and tested, the oil capacitors really work well to deliver the ballsy single coil sound.
Actually, that goes to show us that despite one set of specifications, Chris Kinman knows that his pickups might sound different over time.
Its funny but this year I was pleasantly surprised when Jim Rolph sent me a Cornell Dublier NOS oil cap. Grabe bago pa at nasa plastic bag na maliit. I and Arie were shocked with its performance on single coils. Walang sinabi ang scalarizer. Heh heh. Unfortunately, he did not have any more of it. For me, its the best oil capacitor for guitar. And this is my point, I never heard of any local winders recommend me a Cornell Dublier .... In fact, I bet they don't even know about it. Its pretty clear to me that our knowledge about guitar gear in this country of ours is limited -- way much much better than 20 years ago but I believe still 60 years behind the U.S.
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I'd like to say I've tried Asian pickups but I don't know any Asian brands who make replacements for Jazzmaster pickups (no, NOT P90s) and Wide Range Humbuckers. I'd trust in someone's ears, but there's a reason I'd want to buy a Curtis Novak. I want to pay for that experience and actual R&D with hundreds of vintage pickups.
Take the plunge... But some caution is in order, you may have to try several of his winds or even try others. For example, I feel that for my guitars -- Jim Rolph does better work on humbuckers but Ron Ellis is better for Telecaster pickups. It could be reverse for another person. But sometimes, I use benchmarks to determine if I am still on the correct roadmap. For example, did you notice that everyone talks about Robben Ford's tone in terms of amps and guitar but nobody talks about his pickups? His pickups are made by Jim Rolph. According to Jim, the nice thing about Robben and his tech is that they endorse him right after his clinics. So logically, Jim Rolphs will match my Baker. But the irony is that I learned about this only after putting Jim's pickups on my Baker and I loved its sound. It was only brought up in a discussion over the phone with Jim about how the PAFs sounded great in my Baker that he mentioned Robben.
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Unfortunately, there are quite a number who cannot hear... LOL. I would rather that they get their brain short circuited and prescribed gear in the hopes that their ears get trained to what sounds good. For example, the Parokya ni Edgar sound --- sounds better than before but still bad sounding overall. Not to knock them because they have probably improved but at this stage I expect more from them in terms of guitar tone. Look at Ely Buendia's tone from Eraserhead days. It has improved way much more today.
I agree with you on this. I never liked the Parokya sound. It always sounded (for the lack of a better word) cheap. But somehow, I think the kind of tone and playing fits the type of music perfectly and is perhaps the reason why it appeals so much to the general masses.
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Take the plunge... But some caution is in order, you may have to try several of his winds or even try others. For example, I feel that for my guitars -- Jim Rolph does better work on humbuckers but Ron Ellis is better for Telecaster pickups. It could be reverse for another person. But sometimes, I use benchmarks to determine if I am still on the correct roadmap. For example, did you notice that everyone talks about Robben Ford's tone in terms of amps and guitar but nobody talks about his pickups? His pickups are made by Jim Rolph. According to Jim, the nice thing about Robben and his tech is that they endorse him right after his clinics. So logically, Jim Rolphs will match my Baker. But the irony is that I learned about this only after putting Jim's pickups on my Baker and I loved its sound. It was only brought up in a discussion over the phone with Jim about how the PAFs sounded great in my Baker that he mentioned Robben.
I don't own any guitars with regular humbuckers, Strat singles, or Tele bridges so naturally my choices would gravitate towards people who specialize in what I do have. Right now, that would be Curtis Novak and Jason Lollar. I've only heard good things about Lollar with JM/Jaguar pickups. Lindy Fralin is an option as well, but Novak's no-mod solutions for the Jazzmaster are a lot more interesting.
Does anyone know of any good replacements for Jazzmasters or Jaguars?
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I agree with you on this. I never liked the Parokya sound. It always sounded (for the lack of a better word) cheap. But somehow, I think the kind of tone and playing fits the type of music perfectly and is perhaps the reason why it appeals so much to the general masses.
I think the general masses don't know good music today. How many of the general masses of today listen to vinyl? or even bought a 'legal' CD? Their music, I consider cheap. For some reason, I can never hum a Parokya song because they sound so crass or vulgar but also the melody just does not grab you like a good Guns N Roses song which just gets you too sing. Mababaw talaga ang Parokya. I would even consider their System of a Down cover as plagarism. They never acknowledged System of a Down or paid royalties, I think. Eh... binaboy pa nila ang kanta. Yet ang Pinoy gagawan pa ng full production MTV with budget ang mababaw na kanta? If we allow this to continue, nobody will pay for good music anymore at mawawalan ng trabaho ang mga musikero.
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I think the more important take out that I want to say is that there is more to pickup manufacture and design and NOT ANYBODY can just wind good sounding pickups. It takes YEARS and YEARS of exposure and experience to know what sounds good and what a good pickup contributes to the overall sound. Again, I don't mean to insult Mang Max, but all he has to do is wind something dead on to a Gibson 57 Classic to prove his spurs. Anybody can wind one or two or a dozen pickups and claim musicality for people who may or may NOT hear but its difficult to be winding pickups for twenty or more years with known guitarists as your customers a.k.a. Jim Rolph, etc...
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I think one's ability to say something sound's good is subjective and is a personal experience but I think that is largely driven as well by what you've already heard. It's like saying, you don't know what sounds like the best until you've heard the best ... til then, you are limited to what your current experiences have given you.
My point being, a guy who lives in a deserted island and who's played through a his same axe and same amp for the past 50 years of his life won't know if something sounds even remotely better until he actually hears and plays someone else's gear
In which case, ignorance may be a blessing LOL
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I think one's ability to say something sound's good is subjective and is a personal experience but I think that is largely driven as well by what you've already heard. It's like saying, you don't know what sounds like the best until you've heard the best ... til then, you are limited to what your current experiences have given you.
My point being, a guy who lives in a deserted island and who's played through a his same axe and same amp for the past 50 years of his life won't know if something sounds even remotely better until he actually hears and plays someone else's gear
In which case, ignorance may be a blessing LOL
yes :) before I am very happy with what I have until I discover...
Philmusic :lol:
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yes :) before I am very happy with what I have until I discover...
Philmusic :lol:
Sapul!! :eek:
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a guy who lives in a deserted island and who's played through a his same axe and same amp for the past 50 years of his life won't know if something sounds even remotely better until he actually hears and plays someone else's gear
In which case, ignorance may be a blessing LOL
yes. exposure is very important. Unless one is like those one in a hundred million souls who are able to invent something "out of the blue" without any sort of influence from other parts of the world. Kung may ganung pinoy, baka siya pa ang dadalawin ng mga taga ibang bansa. unfortunately, such is a rare case.
yung luthier namin dito, every year umaalis for the US not just to promote his guitars but to learn of the new developments. siguro call it na lang professional development. it's a good way to grow and broaden one's perspective. a good way to be humble too.
actually, yung pagiging insular ng Pinas, yan ang nagiging sakit, pinoys think that Pinoy's are the best (or the products that pinoys make), but then when s**t happens, we expect help from the US and so so countries. so hindi ako magugulat kung meron talagang magpupuri sa isang local maker/builder like there's no tomorrow. Not everyday can we see someone say "ah yeah, I know that thing is way better, but this is all i can afford at the moment".
also, there's the business side of things, we MAY get to know all of these uber good stuff. but at the end, for the seller eh kikita ba? may bibili ba? Hence one might have to focus on what the masses can afford in order to earn a buck. The rich and abundant, will get whatever's out there on their own channels/means with or without shops/luthiers/guitar techs because they can easily afford it.
but its good to be aware because one day the average Juan might just be able to afford it.
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I think one's ability to say something sound's good is subjective and is a personal experience but I think that is largely driven as well by what you've already heard. It's like saying, you don't know what sounds like the best until you've heard the best ... til then, you are limited to what your current experiences have given you.
My point being, a guy who lives in a deserted island and who's played through a his same axe and same amp for the past 50 years of his life won't know if something sounds even remotely better until he actually hears and plays someone else's gear
In which case, ignorance may be a blessing LOL
Its fine if he remains on an island. But if he expects to be paid for what he does and he sounds awful he better step up and discard his personal experience. In short, if you want people to pay to hear you whether on an album or live just make sure that your tone is ear friendly. Parang Mr. Big and Stone Temple Pilots concert sa Araneta. Hindi pa upgraded ang P.A. system pero ang mahal tumira ng ticket -- kasama na diyan ang promoter dapat nagpadagdag pa siya ng P.A. It does not take my whole life's lesson to tell me that masama ang tunog ng P.A. Ang hindi ko lang alam ay dahil ba: 1) Masama ang quality ng P.A. nila OR 2) Underpowered at kulang sa speakers. The bottomline is for a supposedly premier coliseum talo pa siya sa maliit na Kalang Theater sa Singapore.
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I think the general masses don't know good music today. How many of the general masses of today listen to vinyl? or even bought a 'legal' CD? Their music, I consider cheap. For some reason, I can never hum a Parokya song because they sound so crass or vulgar but also the melody just does not grab you like a good Guns N Roses song which just gets you too sing. Mababaw talaga ang Parokya. I would even consider their System of a Down cover as plagarism. They never acknowledged System of a Down or paid royalties, I think. Eh... binaboy pa nila ang kanta. Yet ang Pinoy gagawan pa ng full production MTV with budget ang mababaw na kanta? If we allow this to continue, nobody will pay for good music anymore at mawawalan ng trabaho ang mga musikero.
I just want to add another insight.... Do you notice that the only thing running the local Rock Music Scene right now are mega concerts all in one packages like the Tanduay Rhum tour? In fact, may anthem sila which is catchy BUT the reality is:
1) Ang daming selection ng banda because no one band can hold its own to be a headliner --- which shows a growing weakness in song writing. Not too mention parang pa kaunti lang ang new material na tugtog nila.
2) They sound awful onstage. Nobody cares about quality gear anymore and how it comes out in the P.A. Kaya pati ang mga so-called 'kamay at technique players' ay hindi na rin naririnig.
3) You need an alcoholic drink to push your songs? So we need to write more stupid songs about drinking and forget to mention the downside of drinking.
4) Bands practice less because of their shorter set. I was surprised that before Steve Vai goes on tour with his band, he practices with them 8 hours a day from Monday to Saturday for four straight weeks. Sinong local band ang gumagawa niyan ngayon? Speak up mga technique people at mga its all in the hands guitarists na one fourth lang ng banda.
5) Does anybody buy the CDs of the headlining bands at the Tanduay Rockfest? So if we were suddenly to ban alcohol then our local rock bands have no source of income to buy new gear and to make new music?
My main message -- Not only with regards to gear but with regards to music: Spend More money on artists so they can upgrade their gear and food to sustain them to write music.
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Spend More money on artists so they can upgrade their gear and food to sustain them to write music.
You hit that right Alex!!
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Actually, that goes to show us that despite one set of specifications, Chris Kinman knows that his pickups might sound different over time.
Its funny but this year I was pleasantly surprised when Jim Rolph sent me a Cornell Dublier NOS oil cap. Grabe bago pa at nasa plastic bag na maliit. I and Arie were shocked with its performance on single coils. Walang sinabi ang scalarizer. Heh heh. Unfortunately, he did not have any more of it. For me, its the best oil capacitor for guitar. And this is my point, I never heard of any local winders recommend me a Cornell Dublier .... In fact, I bet they don't even know about it. Its pretty clear to me that our knowledge about guitar gear in this country of ours is limited -- way much much better than 20 years ago but I believe still 60 years behind the U.S.
And to add to this, oil capacitors would be the best investment so far on single coils. The stock or aftermarket single coils may have the bite, put they still don't have the punch to deliver the tone. Heck, even re-issue strats and tele's couldn't get that vintage sound.
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what about yung Greco Dry Z / Dry 82, Burny VH1 or Ibanez Super 58 pickups on the early 80s japanese "lawsuit" LPs? they have pretty good reputation and heard good things about them and prices for them(at least for the Dry Z) are getting higher. i love the Dry 82 on my recently acquired greco but thats my only experience on them. never tried the Dry Z or VH1.
and BTW, the designer for the Dry Z pickups named Jun Takano still makes pickups today under the K&T Brand
http://music.geocities.jp/kt_vintage_guitars/kthomepage/kt-mainmenu.html
(http://music.geocities.jp/kt_vintage_guitars/kthomepageimage/09aboutus/boogiej.jpg)
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How about Korean made Tesla pickups?
http://www.teslapickups.com/ (http://www.teslapickups.com/)
These people are serious about their business and a few of their pickups are even more expensive than those commonly owned Dimarzio or Seymour Duncan pickups.
They even now have a growing list of guitar manufacturers putting Tesla pickups on their guitars.
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1.The winders have no exposure OR
2. They don't have the ear to produce good sounding pickups
1. YES. Better put, the winders dont have enough/extensive exposure.
2. I wouldnt be so quick to say that. Its like saying completely na walang talent ang Asian ears.
although 1 and 2 are closely related. talent is honed with experience and exposure. also if you could afford to put money into research and have plenty of access to these vintage pickups and study them, to know what makes them good or not, then of course, you are more likely to come up with better, if not the best sounding pickups around.
However, considering they dont have the same access like their american counterparts, starting from scratch and creating them from their own RnD efforts (e.g. Fernandes who created the VH1s and the L5000, who are revered by many are the best in its class), you cant say they dont have the ears for great sounding pickups.
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How about Korean made Tesla pickups?
http://www.teslapickups.com/ (http://www.teslapickups.com/)
These people are serious about their business and a few of their pickups are even more expensive than those commonly owned Dimarzio or Seymour Duncan pickups.
They even now have a growing list of guitar manufacturers putting Tesla pickups on their guitars.
I stopped using DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan a long time ago. To me, they are the vanilla flavor of American Pickups -- the lowest on the rung. So why should I even care about Korean made Tesla pickups?
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what about yung Greco Dry Z / Dry 82, Burny VH1 or Ibanez Super 58 pickups on the early 80s japanese "lawsuit" LPs? they have pretty good reputation and heard good things about them and prices for them(at least for the Dry Z) are getting higher. i love the Dry 82 on my recently acquired greco but thats my only experience on them. never tried the Dry Z or VH1.
and BTW, the designer for the Dry Z pickups named Jun Takano still makes pickups today under the K&T Brand
http://music.geocities.jp/kt_vintage_guitars/kthomepage/kt-mainmenu.html
(http://music.geocities.jp/kt_vintage_guitars/kthomepageimage/09aboutus/boogiej.jpg)
I think the intro to his website says it all.... SINCE 2008. Jim Rolph has been winding pickups since 1959. Enough Said.
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I think the intro to his website says it all.... SINCE 2008. Jim Rolph has been winding pickups since 1959. Enough Said.
Reading Gil Yaron's website, he said he started building guitars in 2007. Why would you trust someone that green? And a bass player at that.
Of course i'm just kidding, just want to point out that your argument on Jun Takano is invalid, he just started building pickups on his own on 2008.
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1. YES. Better put, the winders dont have enough/extensive exposure. (AND PROBABLY WILL NEVER WILL)
2. I wouldnt be so quick to say that. Its like saying completely na walang talent ang Asian ears. (I WOULD BE QUICK ENOUGH. ITS JUST THAT THE WESTERN GUYS ARE MORE TALENTED AT IT. ITS LIKE ASKING SOMEBODY IN AFRICA TO COOK PINOY ADOBO. THE AVERAGE AFRICAN WON'T GET IT BUT SOME EXCEPTIONAL AFRICANS MAY COOK GOOD PINOY ADOBO BUT THEY ARE NO MATCH FOR EXCEPTIONAL FILIPINOS WHO CAN COOK GREAT ADOBO. THE WESTERN GUYS GREW UP ON WESTERN MUSIC, GREW UP WITH THE GOLDEN ERA GUITARS AND TUBE AMPS, GREW UP ON TUBES, GREW ON VINYL, CREATED THE SOUND OF ROCK AND BLUES, ATTENDED ACTUAL CONCERTS WERE MARSHALLS WERE RUNNING AT 10, ETC. VERSUS ASIANS WHO FIRST HEARD ROCK MUSIC ON THE TINY SPEAKER OF THEIR RADIO, WHO FIRST STARTED OUT WITH TINY SOUNDING DISTORTION AND OVERDRIVE, WHO DON'T HAVE ENOUGH LIVING SPACE TO CRANK THEIR GUITAR TUBE AMPS, WHO GREW UP ON TINY TREBLE SOUNDING INSTRUMENTS, ETC. )
although 1 and 2 are closely related. talent is honed with experience and exposure. also if you could afford to put money into research and have plenty of access to these vintage pickups and study them, to know what makes them good or not, then of course, you are more likely to come up with better, if not the best sounding pickups around.
However, considering they dont have the same access like their american counterparts, starting from scratch and creating them from their own RnD efforts (e.g. Fernandes who created the VH1s and the L5000, who are revered by many are the best in its class), you cant say they dont have the ears for great sounding pickups.
I believe that the Fernandez VH1s and the L5000s are no match against the work of Rolph, Wolfetone, Lollar, Bareknuckles, CRCoils, Amiltifano, etc... Over the years, NO japanese pickups has inspired me like the great U.S. pickup winders and I don't hear AT ALL about them in the boutique community and the guitar experts in the U.S.
But we are begging the question. Are we hoping for some kind of Asian Pickup Winding Messiah when the best winders in the U.S. are already doing great sounding pickups? For what reason? Para maka mura? Are you willing to pay an Asian Pickup Winder the same price of Rolph or Throbaks? If not, whats the point of waiting for this yet unknown Asian winder?
If you read between the lines of my first post, JTRibiloff not only has experience but owns over 400 guitars and was allowed access by George Gruhn to the so called vintage guitars that sounded good and bad. Jim Rolph's pickups which I use and I am quite close to Jim owns over 200 VINTAGE GUITARS (including bursts and 50s and 60s Fenders) not to mention old marshall amps, fender tweeds, vintage hi watts, a Trainwreck, etc... He does not own any guitar beyond the 60s. When I asked him what makes him different from other vintage winders, his answer was simple ... I hear those old pickups sound on actual vintage guitars. As I mentioned, he started winding pickups in 1959. He had pickup magnets of the good sounding pickups profiled in chemical composition way back in the 60s. When the portable VHS first came out, he filmed old pickups as he slowly unwound them from the bobbin to understand their winding pattern. Jim had toured with his wife playing in bands in the 50s and 60s. His current customers as I recall include: Joe Walsh, Keith Richards, Billy Gibbons, Richie Sambora, Mick Mars, Robben Ford etc... What you have with Jim Rolph is more than just measurements but a collective knowledge of sounds from artists and how great sounding pickups sounded in actual vintage guitars that escapes the plastic boxes found in DiMarzio, Seymour Duncan, EMG, etc.
Now don't get me wrong. If you have an average sounding guitar, its not worth spending. You would economically do well with DiMarzio, Seymour Duncan or EMG. If you own an SX or an Indonesian or China guitar, 'fill in the name' budget guitar, stick to tesla and even the Japanese pickups. That's fine but you do get what you pay for and unfortunately, for guitar gear I noticed that the real good sounding high end and boutique stuff -- assuming the whole chain is really top notch in terms of character and sound -- is more than the sum of its parts and NOT just an incremental improvement with decreasing marginal utility. As you go up the chain, each piece that really performs brings in an EXPONENTIAL improvement thats hard to explain.
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Reading Gil Yaron's website, he said he started building guitars in 2007. Why would you trust someone that green? And a bass player at that.
Of course i'm just kidding, just want to point out that your argument on Jun Takano is invalid, he just started building pickups on his own on 2008.
Gil Yaron started repairing Bursts in the Hollywood Scene back in the 80s. Thats when he started profiling bursts and 50s Teles and late 50s Strats. In recent discussions with Arie, we were surprised that bass players seem to make some exceptional gear for guitar. For example, Chris Kinman plays bass and so does Gil Yaron. Both know how to play rudimentary guitar but both are bass players by music profession.
Our conclusion: The Bass Player actually hears what your guitar sounds like when you play. In contrast, when a guitarist plays the guitar in a live setting his attention and consciousness is divided between his tone, timbre, notes, hands, fingering and thinking about what to play next. In the same guitar players are in a better position to assess the bass sound for the same reason.
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I think the intro to his website says it all.... SINCE 2008. Jim Rolph has been winding pickups since 1959. Enough Said.
thats probably the year his company was founded not the year he started winding since as mentioned he designed the Dry Z pickups on the Greco guitars in the early 80s. as you can see on some pics on his site, it looks like he got quite a lot of "exposure" on vintage guitars too.
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thats probably the year his company was founded not the year he started winding since as mentioned he designed the Dry Z pickups on the Greco guitars in the early 80s. as you can see on some pics on his site, it looks like he got quite a lot of "exposure" on vintage guitars too.
Bry, Jim Rolph has been winding since 1959. If you actually spend some time calling him up (but be prepared for a long, long conversation and some guitar playing plus a mega expensive phone bill), the wealth of information Jim has is astounding compared to any website. Jim goes to the extent to even describe the gear that our guitar heroes use. And again, I will say SINCE 1959. The only reason I am seeing a pitch for Dry Z is the cheaper price versus Jim Rolph if Jun Takano is indeed cheaper. I am telling you this early that beyond the website and internet nuggets we easily pass off for knowledge, Jim is the expert's expert. As much as I believe a lot in the Japs, they still produce as much duds as Gibson USA in terms of character and sound.
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I think the more important take out that I want to say is that there is more to pickup manufacture and design and NOT ANYBODY can just wind good sounding pickups. It takes YEARS and YEARS of exposure and experience to know what sounds good and what a good pickup contributes to the overall sound. Again, I don't mean to insult Mang Max, but all he has to do is wind something dead on to a Gibson 57 Classic to prove his spurs. Anybody can wind one or two or a dozen pickups and claim musicality for people who may or may NOT hear but its difficult to be winding pickups for twenty or more years with known guitarists as your customers a.k.a. Jim Rolph, etc...
Mang Max started as an electronics guys since the 70's. But I'm not sure if he was a musician, but for sure he knows how to play. With this I trust he invested an amount of time in R&D. But I' not comparing him to the US winders, I'm comparing him with other Asian manufacturers.
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please don't get me wrong. i know who Jim Rolph is. i know he makes great pickups and i don't doubt his experience at all. in fact, he is one of the boutique winders that i will actually consider buying from. also, i'm not saying that Rolph's Pickups or Takano's Pickups are better than the other, its all subjective and can also depend on the guitar. i'm just showing that theres also a decent Asian Boutique winder that deserves attention. by the way, Dry Z pickups are not exactly cheap, they are around $500 if you can find one. And Takano's pickups(K&T) ain't cheap either, they cost from around $1000 to $2000 per set :-o since everything is so much more expensive in Japan, pricewise that should be more or less in line with the US Boutique winders.
(http://www.musicland.co.jp/static-image/topix/kt-pickup/img/40.jpg)
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please don't get me wrong. i know who Jim Rolph is. i know he makes great pickups and i don't doubt his experience at all. in fact, he is one of the boutique winders that i will actually consider buying from. also, i'm not saying that Rolph's Pickups or Takano's Pickups are better than the other, its all subjective and can also depend on the guitar. i'm just showing that theres also a decent Asian Boutique winder that deserves attention. by the way, Dry Z pickups are not exactly cheap, they are around $500 if you can find one. And Takano's pickups(K&T) ain't cheap either, they cost from around $1000 to $2000 per set :-o since everything is so much more expensive in Japan, pricewise that should be more or less in line with the US Boutique winders.
(http://www.musicland.co.jp/static-image/topix/kt-pickup/img/40.jpg)
Point taken...
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--great discussion here ah! technical and daming insights..
one item struck me..about yung "tone" ng mga local na banda na di na nagbago or nagimprove...
totoo yun..medyo peeved ako sa tunog na yun "Distortorotot"..alam nyo yun? yung super super basic entry level tone ng guitar lalo pag naglead...torotot (trumpetlike ,fuzz)yung tunog..nakakaasar...Im no tone junkie or tone master pero..napaka irritating yung dating niya talaga.. tunog masa ,walang ka taste taste or sophistication.....:)
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I stopped using DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan a long time ago. To me, they are the vanilla flavor of American Pickups -- the lowest on the rung. So why should I even care about Korean made Tesla pickups?
haha para sa akin naman bare minimum na ang dimarzio at seymour duncan. i choose them because they are consistent and you know what to expect when you get them vs boutique hand wired stuff. id still choose an invader vs a bkp warpig.
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haha para sa akin naman bare minimum na ang dimarzio at seymour duncan. i choose them because they are consistent and you know what to expect when you get them vs boutique hand wired stuff. id still choose an invader vs a bkp warpig.
Personally, I would not even rely on an invader to carry out distortion duties -- I leave that to the amp. The invader does not capture the other qualities of the wood of the guitar that are necessary for a large sounding timbre.
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Personally, I would not even rely on an invader to carry out distortion duties -- I leave that to the amp. The invader does not capture the other qualities of the wood of the guitar that are necessary for a large sounding timbre.
The Invaders sound is so fat. Even if you put it in a strat it's still fat. I agree it doesn't bring in the sound of the timbre.
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I don't know if you guys know this but Chris Kinman considers me his first customer from the Philippines. I actually bought a set from him a long time ago and he was asking me for it so he could compare if it sounded different from his current wind today. I was surprised that he remembered me. I spent some time with him and Arie at Subic and he asked me to bring my VOX AC30 so he could voice a new set of single coils for Hank Marvin. By the way, I love his P90s which I consider one of his best. But I consider his product more Western than Asian. The guy knows what sounds good and can hear what sounds good. Up to today, I consider his products tops if you want noiseless single coils.
Tried a Kinman before and loved it. Planning to get one when resources are available.
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Why I feel local and Asian Pickups don't deserve your attention
1.The winders have no exposure OR
2. They don't have the ear to produce good sounding pickups
if i may respectfully ask sir who then are your top 5 pickup makers that have been deserving your attention lately? which winder has the most exposure and bears the best ear in producing good sounding pickups?
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I think it matters more who and how they are designed and how strict the QA is, not where they are made or who actually 'makes' them. Case in point: Apple iPad/iPhones (that's why it's ironic when people type "MIC sucks" on their iPads/iPhones). Tonerider pus are designed in the US but are made in China. Many other gear makers (eg, Gibson, Fender, and even supposedly high end acoustic guitar makers) have moved their production to Asia. It's still the brand's fault if the quality has gone down on this age-old designs.
If you simply wanted to compare a certain US winder's work vs. a Pinoy or Asian one that's more direct to the point. Maybe you can compare worksmanship and quality of materials, but how would you compare tone?
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here we go again.......
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very constructive.
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yes :) before I am very happy with what I have until I discover...
Philmusic :lol:
AMEN. Everytime I browse guitar central...i start to realized a lot of things are missing in my life..:(..then I turn my head to my 1-1/2month old First-Born..take a deep breath and say to him...."Good thing I have you Son...you better start early to get the things you want in life..."...:)
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pasawsaw :-D
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i think i deserve asian pickups.di ako mayaman e.plus im a hamfisted tone deaf guitarist anyway.haha.as long as tumutunog ng maayos okay na ako.of course kung may pera ako na madami, ibang uaspan na to.still, i admire guitarists/musicians whohave sub par gears and still play awesome.now that is something else.hehe.
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i think i deserve asian pickups. di ako mayaman e...of course kung may pera ako na madami, ibang uaspan na to.
this.
equity. when we get the most for what we can put out into it.
guitarists/musicians whohave sub par gears and still play awesome.now that is something else.hehe.
this.
well, someone is making up for something he is lacking in.
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i think i deserve asian pickups.di ako mayaman e.plus im a hamfisted tone deaf guitarist anyway.haha.as long as tumutunog ng maayos okay na ako.of course kung may pera ako na madami, ibang uaspan na to.still, i admire guitarists/musicians whohave sub par gears and still play awesome.now that is something else.hehe.
Its ok... As long as you expect to do things for free and NOT get paid....
Yeah but I have to admire MORE the guitarists/musicians who have ABOVE par gears and still play awesome.
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this.
equity. when we get the most for what we can put out into it. (Thats called TIIS but not necessarily meaning MAGALING)
this.
well, someone is making up for something he is lacking in.
(well, anong palagay mo sa sarili mo? Just for clarification.)
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Here we go! :wink:
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I think it matters more who and how they are designed and how strict the QA is, not where they are made or who actually 'makes' them. Case in point: Apple iPad/iPhones (that's why it's ironic when people type "MIC sucks" on their iPads/iPhones). Tonerider pus are designed in the US but are made in China. Many other gear makers (eg, Gibson, Fender, and even supposedly high end acoustic guitar makers) have moved their production to Asia. It's still the brand's fault if the quality has gone down on this age-old designs.
If you simply wanted to compare a certain US winder's work vs. a Pinoy or Asian one that's more direct to the point. Maybe you can compare worksmanship and quality of materials, but how would you compare tone?
Nice to hear from you over there Joric... Hope everything is well. I do agree with you if you are buying such as IPAD/IPOD/IPHONE. In fact, China does produce quality stuff EXCEPT that the best things in life are NOT produced in China because the primary consideration for China manufacturing is COST. Take for example, Mercedes Benz. My Uncle told me that his friend, a Mercedes consultant friend of his found out that the most productive and highest quality Mercedes Benz plant in the world is based in Germany. He recommends that you only buy those models produced in that specific plant in Germany among other models produced around thew world. The funny thing is that Mercedes Benz invested billions of dollars in a new Mercedes Benz plant in the U.S. with GERMAN equipment, GERMAN systems, GERMAN construction and get this... IMPORTING GERMAN workers into America and yet this new plant fell short of the plant in Germany. In the same way, I view guitars in the same way. If you view guitars as something similar to the IPHONE/IPAD/IPOD, I would definitely just look at specs and quality control consistency. If I were looking at the guitar as an artisan instrument that inspires and will forever be part of your life --- to change you and make you a better musician -- then person behind the instrument matters most. Let us take a real life example... I am amazed at how the Gibson Custom Shop today produces instruments to SPECS incompliance with how the actual 50s Gibsons were made. Grabe ang attention to detail and grabe ang consistency ng SPECS nila. Really great work but... ang daming Gibson Custom shop pa rin ang panget ang tunog. Yet once in awhile may magandang Gibson Custom Shop na sobrang ganda ang tunog which makes the plunge worth it. But for the record, wala pang akong nakita na Les Paul Copy na gawang China anywhere near my Gil Yaron Les Paul and I dare anybody to show me one in terms of accuracy, construction, quality of materials and most importantly SOUND and CHARACTER.
Its not that difficult to compare pickups... Just put the new pickup set into a guitar that you own or are familiar with. If its difficult or don't hear much of a difference, either the new picups are NOT really different or you are deaf. :)
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Take for example, Mercedes Benz. My Uncle told me that his friend, a Mercedes consultant friend of his found out that the most productive and highest quality Mercedes Benz plant in the world is based in Germany. He recommends that you only buy those models produced in that specific plant in Germany among other models produced around thew world. The funny thing is that Mercedes Benz invested billions of dollars in a new Mercedes Benz plant in the U.S. with GERMAN equipment, GERMAN systems, GERMAN construction and get this... IMPORTING GERMAN workers into America and yet this new plant fell short of the plant in Germany.
so... same equipment, same system, same construction, same workers that are GERMAN.... the only difference in location..
what seems to be the problem? i just see inconsistency
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well, anong palagay mo sa sarili mo? Just for clarification
i believe that if everyone takes your advice to dismiss local and Asian pickups simply because they are not at par with the american/european boutique pickups, everyone here will end up like you and together we'd all be a bunch of sad audiophiles.
and no one will be left actually playing music. coz either they cant afford expensive pickups or everyone would be too busy comparing which one had got the best tone, like retards repeatedly doing string pulls to show that their guitar sustains forever.
you may have a point but you are living in a dream world. your innuendos are so out of this world that it often, if not always, creates division - because it has always been between what is good (what you have) and rubbish (everything else).
at ang palagay ko sa sarili ko?
i own what i can afford. and its not tiis when i stress out equity. i acquire stuff i can get the most out of. ill be stupid to get a martin just to play small acoustic gigs that even if i play everyday for the entire year wont pay for that guitar when i could get a sturdy guitar that pleases my audience as well as my ears. im practical coz i live in the real world.
now for someone who acquires stuff just so he can tell everyone he's got the best and everything else is sh*t, hes simply one sad bigot of an audiophile.
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Its ok... As long as you expect to do things for free and NOT get paid....
Yeah but I have to admire MORE the guitarists/musicians who have ABOVE par gears and still play awesome.
oh dont get me wrong i get paid.sub par gears and all.i get paid.
yeah list your musicians with the best tones.ill list mine.lets compare. :)
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i believe that if everyone takes your advice to dismiss local and Asian pickups simply because they are not at par with the american/european boutique pickups, everyone here will end up like you and together we'd all be a bunch of sad audiophiles.
(Really? They end up most of the time selling their Asian made stuff in the Classifieds to upgrade to U.S. stuff. Have you checked recently the ton of Asian made stuff not selling in the Classified section? I am definitely not sad and I am NOT an audiophile -- I just hear stuff better than most people. That being said, I feel it is my duty to tell people what is good gear and discriminate against the bad because that way they stop wasting money. I mean there are already lots of bad stuff in the stores like J.B., Audiophile, Perfect Pitch, etc... Guess what? The common trend is that they are cheap.)
and no one will be left actually playing music. coz either they cant afford expensive pickups or everyone would be too busy comparing which one had got the best tone, like retards repeatedly doing string pulls to show that their guitar sustains forever.
(Play music? I think before you start playing music and get paid for it, you owe it your audience to have good sounding equipment and then owe it to yourself to have the best at some point in time to help inspire you. Its more important to meet minimum standard than comparing who has the best tone. I stopped doing that because I found out a majority of guitarists cannot hear 'best' tone.)
you may have a point but you are living in a dream world. your innuendos are so out of this world that it often, if not always, creates division - because it has always been between what is good (what you have) and rubbish (everything else).
(Someone else out there has more stuff and better stuff than I do. I don't live in a dream world because 90% of the stuff that I bought since more than 25 years ago are still with me. I don't flip stuff. It stays. Its people who keep on flipping who live in the dreamworld thinking that they remember how their past gear sound. So, the bottomline is that I can prove my point. And honestly, marami pa akong kulang na gear. I will tell you that 90% of the stuff out there is rubbish and its NOT because I don't own them. In fact, as I have said look at the growing list in the Classified Ads. There is a REAL division between good and rubbish even if I am not to be explicit about it. You know it and the rest of the world knows it. The problem is that people are at a loss where to classify a piece of gear, so I just help out in the process. Proof: check your first paragraph)
at ang palagay ko sa sarili ko?
i own what i can afford. and its not tiis when i stress out equity. i acquire stuff i can get the most out of. ill be stupid to get a martin just to play small acoustic gigs that even if i play everyday for the entire year wont pay for that guitar when i could get a sturdy guitar that pleases my audience as well as my ears. im practical coz i live in the real world.
(A substandard world... Mag charge ka ng P500 na entrance per head para maka afford ka ng Martin. Sa USA, baka mas malaking pagasa mo mag charge ng mataas. Iyun na nga ang problema eh sa Pinas .... lahat barat. Hindi ka mabigyan ng audience mo ng tamang gate fee dahil tingin nila cheap lang dapat lahat. You are NOT practical. You are a victim of low standards of Pinoys.)
now for someone who acquires stuff just so he can tell everyone he's got the best and everything else is sh*t, hes simply one sad bigot of an audiophile.
(I am NOT a bigot because I can prove my points at least to people who can hear. I do NOT have to earn a living being a musician. I have NO interest to promote any products. Stop projecting superiority over audiophiles kasi at the end of the day they may hear better than you.)
To the rest of philmusic, I completely understand the problem in the Philippines. In fact, it becomes more necessary to spend on the best equipment for the simple reason that we do not have enough money and resources to waste on substandard ones that you hope to upgrade at a later time. Up to today, people still refuse to attend and watch live bands because of the poor quality of the P.A. and the poor sound of guitar tones. Pati, sina Tony MacAlpine at Billy Sheehan nagtutunog panget sa Pinas. How can you say that equipment is NOT as important if you have to pay P3k and above to have Tony and Billy sound worse than their CDs and Blue-Rays?
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A substandard world... Mag charge ka ng P500 na entrance per head para maka afford ka ng Martin. Sa USA, baka mas malaking pagasa mo mag charge ng mataas. Iyun na nga ang problema eh sa Pinas .... lahat barat. Hindi ka mabigyan ng audience mo ng tamang gate fee dahil tingin nila cheap lang dapat lahat. You are NOT practical. You are a victim of low standards of Pinoys-firemodel55
low standard o dahil mahirap talaga ang pinoy?unlike most who inherit money, most musicians doesnt have the moolah to pay your so called "best" instruments.but they do play like they have the best even if they only have copies of copies or china made ones.
cge bigyan mo kami pambili and maybe we will be able to hear your best tones.purchasing power lang yan.napakasimple.it doesnt have to do with fancy tones from big name experts.some musicians can do with what they have and sound awesome.
i guess for the nth time, ill quote einstein.everything is relative.or to that effect. :-D
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oh dont get me wrong i get paid.sub par gears and all.i get paid.
yeah list your musicians with the best tones.ill list mine.lets compare. :)
For me, to better understand where you are coming from, I hope you can answer these questions:
1) How much is your estimate (ballpark lang) of your montly income as a musician?
2) What gear do you use?
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1.i get paid 20k per gig.
2.i use an rj es335 copy.
ps.nagpapatawa ako dito.i get paid that much kasi i organize events.thats my net income per event.di mo naman ini specify if i get paid by playing my guitar.still.....
i saw the guitarist of rivermaya use a fernando tele stock once on an out of town gig.nothing fancy, but yeah he still sounds awesome.ill ask how much he got paid during that gig.afaik they asked 250k for ten songs.
madami pa ako gitarists na kilala na di naman branded o ano ang gamit, pero they can commandtheir audience to pay big bucks at thie gigs.
basta wala sa pana yan. :)
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A substandard world... Mag charge ka ng P500 na entrance per head para maka afford ka ng Martin. Sa USA, baka mas malaking pagasa mo mag charge ng mataas. Iyun na nga ang problema eh sa Pinas .... lahat barat. Hindi ka mabigyan ng audience mo ng tamang gate fee dahil tingin nila cheap lang dapat lahat. You are NOT practical. You are a victim of low standards of Pinoys-firemodel55
low standard o dahil mahirap talaga ang pinoy?unlike most who inherit money, most musicians doesnt have the moolah to pay your so called "best" instruments.but they do play like they have the best even if they only have copies of copies or china made ones.
(Hindi kaya ng Pinoy kumita ng malaki. Ganun talaga. As a country we have one of the lowest average GDP per capita at an average of US$ 3k a year compared to lets say a country like Singapore which is part of the top ten at around US$ 40K a year. If it has not hit you yet, the average Chinese earns US$ 9k a year. Yup Chinese are now richer the Pinoys despite their large population.)
cge bigyan mo kami pambili and maybe we will be able to hear your best tones.purchasing power lang yan.napakasimple.it doesnt have to do with fancy tones from big name experts.some musicians can do with what they have and sound awesome.
(Iyan ang Pinoy mentality.... naghihintay ng dole out. Kaya walang nangyayari. Mahina nga ang purchasing power dahil HINDI world standard ang buga. Kaya masakit man sabihin, improve mo ang craft mo sa world standard para tumaas ang purchasing power mo. But some musicians do a lot more with their awesome equipment and their awesome playing at the same time.)
i guess for the nth time, ill quote einstein.everything is relative.or to that effect. :-D
(Yeah but his theory of relativity is an EXACT (not relative) Formula)
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sir firemodel yung Entwistle pickups po ba maganda :?
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so you get paid top dollar for your playing then?with the best gears that you have?how much?id love to see you play.ill even pay for the gate charge if there is. :-D
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1.i get paid 20k per gig.
2.i use an rj es335 copy.
ps.nagpapatawa ako dito.i get paid that much kasi i organize events.thats my net income per event.di mo naman ini specify if i get paid by playing my guitar.still..... (Sana rin nabibigyan mo ng P20k ang bawat banda ng kasama sa event more para mas may budget sila bumili ng gitarang mas maganda sa rj 335 para hindi masaktan ang tenga ng audience nila.)
i saw the guitarist of rivermaya use a fernando tele stock once on an out of town gig.nothing fancy, but yeah he still sounds awesome.ill ask how much he got paid during that gig.afaik they asked 250k for ten songs. (Name me a band TODAY that earns P250k for ten songs?)
madami pa ako gitarists na kilala na di naman branded o ano ang gamit, pero they can commandtheir audience to pay big bucks at thie gigs.
(Sino? Anong gamit nila at what is big bucks for you? Kung gaanon lang pala baka pwede niyo ng gawin roadie niyo si Billy Sheehan na nagaayos ng sariling bass setup niya dahil hindi marunong ang mga tao dito.)
basta wala sa pana yan. :)
(Talaga? Eh bakit talagang sa pana iyan, may mga 'favorite' na gitara ang mga musikerong sinasabi mo?)
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sinabi ko na nga e.ask mo si mike elgar.kasi naka fernando lang sya nung buong set nung mag pa event ako sa amin.still post ka naman ng new video mo using the best dali.ikaw naman.educate us please.
kontakin mo si billy sheehan, paglalabahin ko sya.
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Now local and asian pickups are getting more attention. Thanks to TS.
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so you get paid top dollar for your playing then?with the best gears that you have?how much?id love to see you play.ill even pay for the gate charge if there is. :-D
Sige pare.... Tatapusin ko muna chemo ko. Tapos sabihin ko sa iyo kung kailan. Gate Fee for you is P10k. Will use the P10k to pay for the club rental.
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walang problema.update update lang.
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sinabi ko na nga e.ask mo si mike elgar.kasi naka fernando lang sya nung buong set nung mag pa event ako sa amin.still post ka naman ng new video mo using the best dali.ikaw naman.educate us please.
kontakin mo si billy sheehan, paglalabahin ko sya.
I think I met mike elgar once. Looked like a nice guy. Kaso hindi fernando ang pinoproblema niya. I think it was his Ibanez or Jackson. Tapos pinapahabol niya yata ang action and playability ng Suhr Modern ko as I recall. Could be wrong though.
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walang problema.update update lang.
Will do.... Ano pala gear mo? Padala rin. Need to use it as a baseline to compare the other gear to.
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Now local and asian pickups are getting more attention. Thanks to TS.
Let me make it clear and redirect ATTENTION ... THEY SUCK on a general level. You could make exceptions of course if it makes you happy. Everybody happy? Everybody happy.
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Sige pare.... Tatapusin ko muna chemo ko. Tapos sabihin ko sa iyo kung kailan. Gate Fee for you is P10k. Will use the P10k to pay for the club rental.
I know a lot of people would love to see this, "MATULOY LANG". A lot have tried, all failed. :-\
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1.i get paid 20k per gig.
2.i use an rj es335 copy.
ps.nagpapatawa ako dito.i get paid that much kasi i organize events.thats my net income per event.di mo naman ini specify if i get paid by playing my guitar.still.....
i saw the guitarist of rivermaya use a fernando tele stock once on an out of town gig.nothing fancy, but yeah he still sounds awesome.ill ask how much he got paid during that gig.afaik they asked 250k for ten songs.
madami pa ako gitarists na kilala na di naman branded o ano ang gamit, pero they can commandtheir audience to pay big bucks at thie gigs.
basta wala sa pana yan. :)
sorry to barge in.. i just want to share my thoughts....
for me it's 50-50. way back i thought i'm satisfied with a marshall v8080(thinking na idadaan ko nalang sa stompboxes and stuff)....... until i got a soldano(which reduced my board to a clean boost for solos and a delay pedal).. :eek: it made me sound better even though i'm not an awesome guitar player.
btw, most of the character of the sound comes from the amp. what amp did mike use on that time that he's using a fernando? i bet if he can afford to buy high end stuff he'll be using it instead(because he knows he'll play and sound better with it).
BTT: i had some bkps, dimarzios and sds. i think some models of sds and dimarzios can match some models of bkps..(btw i can only compare the high outputs.)
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rj es335.some amp.yun lang.
@rowley, he was using a marshall mg100dfx.
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Gear heads educating musicians on what is premium equipment, musicians trying to educate gear heads on the essence of creating and playing music. It goes on and on and on. Just don't get the part of having fun out of the things you do guys. Tama na yabangan. We're sick and tired of it. Akala ko maganda magiging discussion dito then alas, nauwi uli sa yabangan and sa "my opinion is THE absolute truth...blah, blah...".
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rj es335.some amp.yun lang.
@rowley, he was using a marshall mg100dfx.
mg100dfx ain't that bad compared to other amps.
imo, mike is known for his awesome guitar playing not because of his awesome tone.
two different personas(though i want to be both lol!). tone wise his was okay for me..:)
one of the local artists that has amazing tone for me is barbie.. :lol:
Gear heads educating musicians on what is premium equipment, musicians trying to educate gear heads on the essence of creating and playing music. It goes on and on and on. Just don't get the part of having fun out of the things you do guys. Tama na yabangan. We're sick and tired of it. Akala ko maganda magiging discussion dito then alas, nauwi uli sa yabangan and sa "my opinion is THE absolute truth...blah, blah...".
then again, all gear(if you meant guitar related gears) heads are musicians but not all musicians are gear heads..:) agreed on having fun..:)
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okay lang naman mga ganyan banatan.hahaha,inggiterong froglet lang ako. :-D
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1.i get paid 20k per gig.
2.i use an rj es335 copy.
ps.nagpapatawa ako dito.i get paid that much kasi i organize events.thats my net income per event.di mo naman ini specify if i get paid by playing my guitar.still.....
i saw the guitarist of rivermaya use a fernando tele stock once on an out of town gig.nothing fancy, but yeah he still sounds awesome.ill ask how much he got paid during that gig.afaik they asked 250k for ten songs.
madami pa ako gitarists na kilala na di naman branded o ano ang gamit, pero they can commandtheir audience to pay big bucks at thie gigs.
basta wala sa pana yan. :)
woah! 20k per event? anong event ito bro?ako nag papa event din eh, never pako kumita, hehehehe, id like to hear more man!
also, curious lang din, the bands get paid din right? cooooooooool :money:
nice read!!! i love threads like this!
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woah! 20k per event? anong event ito bro?ako nag papa event din eh, never pako kumita, hehehehe, id like to hear more man!
also, curious lang din, the bands get paid din right? cooooooooool :money:
nice read!!! i love threads like this!
no kidding bro.sometimes more than that.madami dami na din ako na produce na events.yup bands get paid too.pag usapan natin.ot na e.haha.shot tayo minsan.
malakas ang events.do you know mme?the ceo/owner is a close brod of mine.yaman na nya ngayon dahil sa events.haha.sya yung may hawak ng muziklaban and octoberfest to name a few.
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no kidding bro.sometimes more than that.madami dami na din ako na produce na events.yup bands get paid too.pag usapan natin.ot na e.haha.shot tayo minsan.
malakas ang events.do you know mme?the ceo/owner is a close brod of mine.yaman na nya ngayon dahil sa events.haha.sya yung may hawak ng muziklaban and octoberfest to name a few.
yeah! :mrgreen:
Asian pickups rock!
US / EUROPEAN pickups rock expensively!
yeah!! :lol:
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@bakit?
Huy sama ka sa GCMB! para makapagtambay tambay tayo minsan..and mapagusapan din yung "musicians home" na plinaplano sa Offset thread..tsaka syempre inuman sessions! mukhang madami ka mashashare na insights tungkol sa industry...dapat makasama din sa mga get togethers si Paltic and si Treblelovescene..
and gulat din ako sa SKA band na binubuo mo..astig! medyo nahilig din ako sa genre and culture na yan! and ang sarap ng vibe ng tugtugan ng mga ganyan..lalo pag into yung crowd at magsayaw sayaw sa ska beat...complete with nice threads and attitude..lupeeet!
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Sige pare.... Tatapusin ko muna chemo ko. Tapos sabihin ko sa iyo kung kailan. Gate Fee for you is P10k. Will use the P10k to pay for the club rental.
You're undergoing chemo man?
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@bakit?
Huy sama ka sa GCMB! para makapagtambay tambay tayo minsan..and mapagusapan din yung "musicians home" na plinaplano sa Offset thread..tsaka syempre inuman sessions! mukhang madami ka mashashare na insights tungkol sa industry...dapat makasama din sa mga get togethers si Paltic and si Treblelovescene..
and gulat din ako sa SKA band na binubuo mo..astig! medyo nahilig din ako sa genre and culture na yan! and ang sarap ng vibe ng tugtugan ng mga ganyan..lalo pag into yung crowd at magsayaw sayaw sa ska beat...complete with nice threads and attitude..lupeeet!
cge kelan ba yun?intersado ako dun sa studio//bar talaga e.sayang ang contacts at experience.hehehe :)
yung ska punk, matagal ganyan eksena ko.used to organize ug gigs na puro oi/ska/punk/hc.up until now active pa din ako sa eksenang yan.hirap lang mag hanap ng members, puro growl na gusto ng mga nagbabanda ngayon.nothing wrong with that tho, metalhead din ako e.kaso sarap lang ng sayawan sa ska.hehe.
ot napakagaling ng bandang shuffle union at coffeebreak island.(wala lang promote ko lang mga tropa) :-D
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shuffle union
parang familiar to..matagal na ba sila tumutugtog? langhiya..makagawa nga ng SKA playlist paguwi..hahaha..Astig!
ano ba yung banda ni Bing Austria a few years back? napanuod ko sila sa isang fete mga 2003-2004...astig din..suited up talaga..
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You're undergoing chemo man?
Yup... I have around seven more cycles of FORFOX. Have already done 5 cycles...
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no kidding bro.sometimes more than that.madami dami na din ako na produce na events.yup bands get paid too.pag usapan natin.ot na e.haha.shot tayo minsan.
malakas ang events.do you know mme?the ceo/owner is a close brod of mine.yaman na nya ngayon dahil sa events.haha.sya yung may hawak ng muziklaban and octoberfest to name a few.
Believe me thats NOT going to last long enough. Below the Line Activation is the MOST expensive form of promotion with the least return. Given that the brands sponsoring the big events are maturing brands -- sales are flat --- its only a matter of time before the events are slowly trimmed and outright eliminated. Already the cost of staging is going up because you now need several bands to headline a series of events...
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parang familiar to..matagal na ba sila tumutugtog? langhiya..makagawa nga ng SKA playlist paguwi..hahaha..Astig!
ano ba yung banda ni Bing Austria a few years back? napanuod ko sila sa isang fete mga 2003-2004...astig din..suited up talaga..
nakalimutan ko na yung banda ni sir bing e.active pa din sya.dami na ska bands ulit ngayon.sa december 3rd manila ska festival.
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late to the party as usual. i'm big on pickup swapping kasi i think it (along with the value of the volume pot) the biggest contributor to an electric guitar's tone. more than any other component of the guitar, i think.
kulang lang i think sa discipline to absolutely get it right. so they end up cutting one corner too many for corksniffers like us. but its all in the spirit of leo fender, who was looking for any corner to cut (fewer finishing steps, fewer pickup parts, fewer areas that need the hands of experienced luthiers).
but when give a set of specs to build to and stricter quality control to make sure they follow the specs to the letter, they make decent stuff that comes close (or sometimes betters) the dimarzio/duncan off the shelf stuff (stuff made in the US), depending on what you're going for. take tonerider's vintage plus and hot classic tele pickups. up to par with the basic duncan or dimarzio offerings. the hot classic bridge is like a duncan JD bridge and their neck pickup lines, lalo na yung vintage plus, trump all neck pickups from those 2 in terms of clarity (the much touted twang king included). wala nga lang sila nung parang duncan vintage '54 and antiquity II. but sa specs, none of those 2 big makers offer pickups with A3 magnets (which was what they used in the earliest teles).
had those for a while but i wanted to go a step (even if it is such a tiny step) further so i went with OC duff on one tele and fralin/weider and don mare on the other. but really, those 2 tonerider tele sets will cover anything you'd think of playing on a tele and do so brilliantly.
GFS i haven't tried kasi there's just too many options i think. i'd rather they just produce 2 or 3 tele lines (chasing a few classic tones) and get them perfect.
andun yung skill and know how, i think. kailangan lang ng discipline resist the urge to make a quick buck.
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Believe me thats NOT going to last long enough. Below the Line Activation is the MOST expensive form of promotion with the least return. Given that the brands sponsoring the big events are maturing brands -- sales are flat --- its only a matter of time before the events are slowly trimmed and outright eliminated. Already the cost of staging is going up because you now need several bands to headline a series of events...
i dont know about that.
all i know is right now, im good.i do this not for the money though.its about helping the scene for me.malalaki events ko yeah sure, sawa na ako sa production type events sa bars.
nagkataon lang na maganda siguro yung market na kinabilangan ko.ako lang nag papa event namalaki sa cagayan valley.thats in terms of putting out ug/unsigned bands there.kung kikita ayos, okay na ako sa break even.the last few events i handled maganda ang outcome.
as for my brod, going strong namam mga events nya.those two events are just a few of the events he is handling.madami pa sya raket.he started out about ten years ago or so.now he owns a buidling in magallanes(i think) and a house in forbes.just because of the events he organizes.
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Yup... I have around seven more cycles of FORFOX. Have already done 5 cycles...
Get well soon meng.
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Mga brader out of topic na yung halos lahat ng huling mga post, from chemo, bangayan, event organizing etc.
Maganda na yung simula ng thread, marami ka mapupulot na mga info for a pick-up newbie like me... pwede isantabi muna yung mga pride?
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Mga brader out of topic na yung halos lahat ng huling mga post, from chemo, bangayan, event organizing etc.
Maganda na yung simula ng thread, marami ka mapupulot na mga info for a pick-up newbie like me... pwede isantabi muna yung mga pride?
oo nga.sorry ot na talaga.
@gandydancer, pm pm tayo bro.
oh sya, ill leave you to your asian pickups thread.haha.sawsaw lang ako dito e.di naman ako gearhead. :-D
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^Roger that Bakit?
Back to topic:
What about TV Jones' Pickups..i think they look killer! theyve got some soundclips din sa site nila..
(http://www.dephotographic.com/files/9513/4210/4580/tv_jones_pickup.jpg)
(along with the value of the volume pot) the biggest contributor to an electric guitar's tone. more than any other component of the guitar, i think.
true..been thinking about this as well..just thid morning while strumming a cheapo guitar unplugged....yung wood, quality of build, parts and brand name sa headstock siguro 10% lang..and mostly tong factor na ito eh sa humawak ng instrument na...pero in terms of output..sound...via electrical signals..its the pickups and yung circuit hanggang sa inputjack..
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Player aside, no high-end pick-up can magically make a crappy amp sound good. A crappy pick-up can make a good amp sound crappy no magic necessary.
I've switched between particular SD's, bareknuckles and dimarzios on my beat up Ibby. dimarzio's I've tried (PAF Pro's, mostly) still suit my taste and sound better through the rest (or most) of my rig. pick-ups are just a fraction of the tone. if you are after a certain tone, some pick-ups will get you there easier and some won't. the best way to get the best pick-up for you is to try the pick-ups against your rig, if this is not possible then all we can do is just compare marketing hypes and take a chance. no amount of research, discussions and debates can guarantee whether you will like one pickup better than the other . You need to try them both to see which one you'll like more. Mang Max (and other local makers) can be more accommodating to testing and comparison so maybe they deserve some attention. Pick-ups you can't try and are unavailable for trial and testing are the ones that deserve the least of your time. You will never know if you will truly like them or not. Parang R rated movies na edited for local theaters, you won't know if the bida actually stripped or not until you look at the director's cut.
Player in the equation, bottomline preference pa rin.
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I really like Asian Pickups, I think the best ang D-MAX , pero hindi pahuhuli HILUX tsaka NAVARRE, yung STRADA is pure hype.
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I really like Asian Pickups, I think the best ang D-MAX , pero hindi pahuhuli HILUX tsaka NAVARRE, yung STRADA is pure hype.
:wave: :lol:
tomoh!
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late to the party as usual. i'm big on pickup swapping kasi i think it (along with the value of the volume pot) the biggest contributor to an electric guitar's tone. more than any other component of the guitar, i think.
kulang lang i think sa discipline to absolutely get it right. so they end up cutting one corner too many for corksniffers like us. but its all in the spirit of leo fender, who was looking for any corner to cut (fewer finishing steps, fewer pickup parts, fewer areas that need the hands of experienced luthiers).
but when give a set of specs to build to and stricter quality control to make sure they follow the specs to the letter, they make decent stuff that comes close (or sometimes betters) the dimarzio/duncan off the shelf stuff (stuff made in the US), depending on what you're going for. take tonerider's vintage plus and hot classic tele pickups. up to par with the basic duncan or dimarzio offerings. the hot classic bridge is like a duncan JD bridge and their neck pickup lines, lalo na yung vintage plus, trump all neck pickups from those 2 in terms of clarity (the much touted twang king included). wala nga lang sila nung parang duncan vintage '54 and antiquity II. but sa specs, none of those 2 big makers offer pickups with A3 magnets (which was what they used in the earliest teles).
had those for a while but i wanted to go a step (even if it is such a tiny step) further so i went with OC duff on one tele and fralin/weider and don mare on the other. but really, those 2 tonerider tele sets will cover anything you'd think of playing on a tele and do so brilliantly.
GFS i haven't tried kasi there's just too many options i think. i'd rather they just produce 2 or 3 tele lines (chasing a few classic tones) and get them perfect.
andun yung skill and know how, i think. kailangan lang ng discipline resist the urge to make a quick buck.
Hi there Nathan. As I have always said, boutique pickups only are worth it if your guitar i.e. the wood of your electric guitar sounds amazing. Otherwise, if you have a relatively average or above average guitar, duncans, dimarzios, etc. will do. The analogy is like steak from Batangas and prime steak from the USA. If you use packaged gravy mix versus freshly prepared gravy on the drippings, your steak from Batangas will taste the same. However, on the prime steak from the USA the freshly prepared gravy will compliment and expand the rich taste of the USA steak whereas the packaged gravy will ruin the texture -- forcing you to even consider eating the prime steak without gravy.
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^Roger that Bakit?
Back to topic:
What about TV Jones' Pickups..i think they look killer! theyve got some soundclips din sa site nila..
(http://www.dephotographic.com/files/9513/4210/4580/tv_jones_pickup.jpg)
true..been thinking about this as well..just thid morning while strumming a cheapo guitar unplugged....yung wood, quality of build, parts and brand name sa headstock siguro 10% lang..and mostly tong factor na ito eh sa humawak ng instrument na...pero in terms of output..sound...via electrical signals..its the pickups and yung circuit hanggang sa inputjack..
Personally, I think in terms of the electrical signal the guitar amp is more important than pickups or effects. Nowadays I give speaker cabinets and their drivers as equal a weight as the guitar amp if not more. Pickups are the most overrated part of the electrical signal chain for the simple reason that its the cheapest part of the signal chain. Still, they play an important part.
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Hi there Nathan. As I have always said, boutique pickups only are worth it if your guitar i.e. the wood of your electric guitar sounds amazing. Otherwise, if you have a relatively average or above average guitar, duncans, dimarzios, etc. will do. The analogy is like steak from Batangas and prime steak from the USA. If you use packaged gravy mix versus freshly prepared gravy on the drippings, your steak from Batangas will taste the same. However, on the prime steak from the USA the freshly prepared gravy will compliment and expand the rich taste of the USA steak whereas the packaged gravy will ruin the texture -- forcing you to even consider eating the prime steak without gravy.
Nice analogy. Mouth watering!
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I like Aussie steak!
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Hi there Nathan. As I have always said, boutique pickups only are worth it if your guitar i.e. the wood of your electric guitar sounds amazing. Otherwise, if you have a relatively average or above average guitar, duncans, dimarzios, etc. will do. The analogy is like steak from Batangas and prime steak from the USA. If you use packaged gravy mix versus freshly prepared gravy on the drippings, your steak from Batangas will taste the same. However, on the prime steak from the USA the freshly prepared gravy will compliment and expand the rich taste of the USA steak whereas the packaged gravy will ruin the texture -- forcing you to even consider eating the prime steak without gravy.
Isn't the best steak comes from japan?(i.e. wagyu, kobe)
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Isn't the best steak comes from japan?(i.e. wagyu, kobe)
yes and they have it shipped in the states and tagged as us prime steak. :-D
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Isn't the best steak comes from japan?(i.e. wagyu, kobe)
unless you've been eating steak since 1959, i don't think you can judge what a good steak is :-D
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unless you've been eating steak since 1959, i don't think you can judge what a good steak is :-D
plus, you can't judge a good steak just by looking at pictures and reading testimonials
you need to try it for yourself... where it comes from, how much it cost, raves from known critics, etc... may guarantee quality, but not necessarily guarantee YOUR satisfaction
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Ano, pagandahan na lang ng grain and marbling!?
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:lol:
ot to da max.
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sir firemodel yung Entwistle pickups po ba maganda :?
:?
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Personally, I think in terms of the electrical signal the guitar amp is more important than pickups or effects. Nowadays I give speaker cabinets and their drivers as equal a weight as the guitar amp if not more. Pickups are the most overrated part of the electrical signal chain for the simple reason that its the cheapest part of the signal chain. Still, they play an important part.
agree with the cabinets. The local shop here was kind enough to demo 2 versions of orange ppc2x12 to me, one is made in china (particle plyboard i think), the other one is UK(baltic birch). Aside from the obvious weight, the sound coming out was night and day. iba yun buga (dont know the exact term)
BTT
alex what would be your top 5 pickups then?
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Ano, pagandahan na lang ng grain and marbling!?
hindi marbling. flame! lol
Wagyu has its own characteristics and taste. depende sa pinakain at sa alaga ng baka.
the better the meat the tastier and you can do with only salt and pepper.
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parang ganito lang siguro
Steak:
99 pesos Slice and dice.. Vs. 2k php per serving grade AAA imported fine beef
either way pagkinain mo..busog ka din at lalabas din natin kinaumagahan..depende nalang talaga kung maafford mo or yung mindset mo na dapat highgrade beef lang pinapasok ko sa katawan ko..hehe..
pero masarap din grilled salmon! yum!
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parang ganito lang siguro
Steak:
99 pesos Slice and dice.. Vs. 2k php per serving grade AAA imported fine beef
either way pagkinain mo..busog ka din at lalabas din natin kinaumagahan..depende nalang talaga kung maafford mo or yung mindset mo na dapat highgrade beef lang pinapasok ko sa katawan ko..hehe..
pero masarap din grilled salmon! yum!
Using this analogy is just like saying that it doesn't matter what pickup you use because both good and bad pickups produce sound anyway.
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Using this analogy is just like saying that it doesn't matter what pickup you use because both good and bad pickups produce sound anyway.
hahaha..yeah...perhaps I was just focusing on the financial capability of the hungry person..well to add, definitely that grade aaa beef streak grilled to perfection will taste better and would give you a more thrilling sensation leaving you fulfilled and happy..compared with the 99php steak..na "lamang tyan lang" hahaha... more sophisticated meat lovers would go for the expensive one for sure..pero kung ordinary folk..maaring masaya ka na sa Slice and Dice pag sweldo kasama pa tropa..
Ang masakit, pag naghighend Steak ka sa isang classy hotel..spending top peso...tapos overated at di pala umabot sa expectations.. :cry: :cry: nadala lang sa picture sa menu board..
pwede din naman mag House of Mini's...old school,pero masarap naman..hahaha..Damn!!! nakakagutom!
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Using this analogy is just like saying that it doesn't matter what pickup you use because both good and bad pickups produce sound anyway.
Sound does get more interesting if you use it in a non-musical context.
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would you buy a steak prepared and grilled to perfection by a famous michellin star chef ? :drool: :drool: :drool:
Or would you buy some ihaw-ihaw bbq by some local sidewalk vendor? Pwede din! Masarap din to..
Dammit! whenever I see my guitar pick up..Ill be thinking of a nice thick juicy steak..from now on..dahil sa thread na ito! hahaha :-P
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Ano ba ang binabayaran mo sa pickups? mas mahal ba ang magnetic wire ni Bareknuckles kesa kay GFS? Magnets - nothing more but pieces of metal charged with electricity... some come natural, some are man-made. Bobbins are also just cheap.
So if my contention is right, the WINDER is more important? because he knows what wire to use, how many turns he has to make, how 'tambak' the windings should be, and how much potting should be used?
Eh kung yung WINDER and mahalaga... at GINAYA ng isang Asian ang kanyang pickup (through reverse engineering) - binilang ang windings, tiningnan ang specs (like DC resistance, resonant frequency, output, etc.), at binenta nang mura - ano ang rason para HINDI MAKUHA ANG ATENSYON NATIN?
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so... same equipment, same system, same construction, same workers that are GERMAN.... the only difference in location..
what seems to be the problem? i just see inconsistency
Exactly. The core problem here is that people have different preferences. The word "preference" has been mentioned on this site prolly already a gazillion times and some folks still seem to not get it.
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So, is an imported pickup matters than local?
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So, is an imported pickup matters than local?
Depends who yer talkin' to. :lol:
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So, is an imported pickup matters than local?
I see what you did there. Updates on the newest build? What pickups are you gonna use again?
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Ano ba ang binabayaran mo sa pickups? mas mahal ba ang magnetic wire ni Bareknuckles kesa kay GFS? Magnets - nothing more but pieces of metal charged with electricity... some come natural, some are man-made. Bobbins are also just cheap.
So if my contention is right, the WINDER is more important? because he knows what wire to use, how many turns he has to make, how 'tambak' the windings should be, and how much potting should be used?
Eh kung yung WINDER and mahalaga... at GINAYA ng isang Asian ang kanyang pickup (through reverse engineering) - binilang ang windings, tiningnan ang specs (like DC resistance, resonant frequency, output, etc.), at binenta nang mura - ano ang rason para HINDI MAKUHA ANG ATENSYON NATIN?
You might get the SCIENCE behind it but the ART to it...I doubt :?
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if i may respectfully ask sir who then are your top 5 pickup makers that have been deserving your attention lately? which winder has the most exposure and bears the best ear in producing good sounding pickups?
mukang hirap pala si ts sagutin to, wala pa din reply :wave:
alex what would be your top 5 pickups then?
kung maka sagot siya makaka dagdag information para sa ating mga guitaristang gusto matuto
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I see what you did there. Updates on the newest build? What pickups are you gonna use again?
Something cheap and trashy. My ears are not as refined so as to impeccably discern the rich tone boutique pickups have to offer. :-D
I have a spare Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro APTR 1 neck and a DiMarzio Super Distortion T bridge pickups that I'll drop in there, BTW.
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You might get the SCIENCE behind it but the ART to it...I doubt :?
anong art dun? is it really art or marketing lang?
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Q: Ano ang tunog pag nag self pleasure ang isang guitar gear head?
A: PAF! PAF! PAF! PAF!
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hindi ko alam kung bakit ganto tong taong to (firemodel55). pardon me mods
why dont you just appreciate that local talents try to produce something ?
dissing local bands as cheap yet ikaw mismo eh kaya mo gawin mga ginagawa nila?
sikat kaba? ano napatunayan mo sa music industry?
sa tagal ko ng nag babasa ng mga post mo e nakakatawa ka talaga.
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anong art dun? is it really art or marketing lang?
the marketing is another facet to it, and you should know how to differentiate it... music is an art so as making it and what makes it partly an artistic mind... im not talking in absolutes..if your talking about sum you cant discard its parts that makes it up :-D
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Hi there Nathan. As I have always said, boutique pickups only are worth it if your guitar i.e. the wood of your electric guitar sounds amazing. Otherwise, if you have a relatively average or above average guitar, duncans, dimarzios, etc. will do. The analogy is like steak from Batangas and prime steak from the USA. If you use packaged gravy mix versus freshly prepared gravy on the drippings, your steak from Batangas will taste the same. However, on the prime steak from the USA the freshly prepared gravy will compliment and expand the rich taste of the USA steak whereas the packaged gravy will ruin the texture -- forcing you to even consider eating the prime steak without gravy.
ah, i dont like packaged gravy mix. heck, i like my steak with very little gravy or sauce. i want just the plain slab of meat, medium, pink and juicy sa core. :lol:
funny you should use that analogy, too. i had one such tele a few months ago (in the middle of this whirlwind of a revolving door for guitars that just wont seem to stop). i'm almost ashamed to say how much i spent for it because its almost ridiculous for something built as simple as a tele and completely against the philosophy i teach when it comes to telecasters. it was from a widely-highly-regarded builder in the US (i'd rather not say who but he's one of the "5 tele-style builders people should know" :lol:) built from a slab of old lightweight southern swamp ash ("reclaimed" was the term i think) and the right parts and formula. needless to say, i spent more on it that i have ever spent on any guitar (i know, i should've just gotten a mid to late 60s tele).
the weirdest thing happened when i was matching out pickups for it from my stash: the best fit for that particular guitar, in 2012, was an old duncan vintage '54. now i went through the whole gaggle, including the stuff that I'd already mounted in different guitars, taking them off and trying them out on "The Tele". duncan broadcaster, antiquity 1, antiquity 2, oc duff plankster, don mare 0038, twang king, tonerider hot classic, zhang paul bunyan, stuart lap wrap. heck i even tried the stock bridge pickup from an MIM standard and a texas special. the '54 was it. and its always been a type of "specialist" pickup. not very middle of the road and completely hard-core country twanger. didn't change the neck pickup (a fralin stock +2%) but that was it. that was, to my ears, as good as i could make it sound and it was the perfect match. then the revolving door had to move again.
.... aaaaannnd its gone.
i kept the vintage '54 though. :lol:
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anong art dun? is it really art or marketing lang?
ART IN WINDING PICKUPS? I think the real art to it is how to use ears and measurements as well as 'tidiness' to build CONSISTENT PICKUPS. Heck, even the PAFs and PATENTED humbuckers of 1957 to 1960 were NOT consistent. So if Mr. Tom Holmes claims he knows the *secret* to the PAF sound, he also must know how much each pickups from the same era varied from one to another. It is no different than output transformers... same wire, same iron, same maker, but no two Plexis sound alike (even with the same amount of usage) because the output transformers of the '60s Marshalls were so 'tambak'.
IMO, there might be an art to it, but a "magnet with a coil of wire" is a "magnet with of a coil of wire" is a "magnet with of coil of wire". I don't think I would spend more than $300 for a pickup set.
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hindi ko alam kung bakit ganto tong taong to (firemodel55). pardon me mods
why dont you just appreciate that local talents try to produce something ?
dissing local bands as cheap yet ikaw mismo eh kaya mo gawin mga ginagawa nila?
sikat kaba? ano napatunayan mo sa music industry?
sa tagal ko ng nag babasa ng mga post mo e nakakatawa ka talaga.
Nakupow another newbie to the firemodel trap.
PS the TS knows what he talks about pero minsan exag lang siya magpost dito para mapikon ang iba para mag-rationalize.
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Ano ba ang binabayaran mo sa pickups? mas mahal ba ang magnetic wire ni Bareknuckles kesa kay GFS? Magnets - nothing more but pieces of metal charged with electricity... some come natural, some are man-made. Bobbins are also just cheap.
So if my contention is right, the WINDER is more important? because he knows what wire to use, how many turns he has to make, how 'tambak' the windings should be, and how much potting should be used?
Eh kung yung WINDER and mahalaga... at GINAYA ng isang Asian ang kanyang pickup (through reverse engineering) - binilang ang windings, tiningnan ang specs (like DC resistance, resonant frequency, output, etc.), at binenta nang mura - ano ang rason para HINDI MAKUHA ANG ATENSYON NATIN?
1. Cheap kasi habol kaya aandar na bias ng Pinoy at lalabas ang pagka binga niya.
2. What makes you think an Asian can get or hear the same sound that a Western winder can get?
:) Dodjie, Nice to hear you on this thread.
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would you buy a steak prepared and grilled to perfection by a famous michellin star chef ? :drool: :drool: :drool:
Or would you buy some ihaw-ihaw bbq by some local sidewalk vendor? Pwede din! Masarap din to..
Dammit! whenever I see my guitar pick up..Ill be thinking of a nice thick juicy steak..from now on..dahil sa thread na ito! hahaha :-P
Hindi pareho...
Locally:
The best steaks at least in terms of U.S.A. Prime Rib are Antonios in Tagaytay and Prince Albert at Intercon. Easily above and beyond p2k a piece. Crisp outside and very soft, juicy and tasty.
Red at the Shangril La Makati has gone down in quality which used to be the best when they had a more consistent supply of Rossini beef.
House of Minis is one of the worst steaks -- they are just a little bit above fastfood grade paper thin sizzling 'steak'. Mag Mario's ka na lang.
USA:
Smith & Wolensky (New York) was once my favorite when they use to make a special bbq spice rub on the prime rib with bearnaise sauce. Now they don't offer it anymore or do that special service.
Instead my farovite now is Gallagher at Manhattan because they are the only guys that grill their prime rib over charcoal and the great thing about them is you get to see their aging room through an aquarium (heh heh).
Ruths New York is still tough to beat if you want your prime rib with bone in. It takes longer to cook but the bone in keeps the meet moist. Also Ruths Maui, Hawai has better tasting prime rib for the sole reason that they use their local butter -- which for some reason tastes so good -- specially when they slather the butter slice on steak fresh from the grill.
Local Cooking:
Local beef cannot even compare. So for my personal cooking I only use local tenderloin and it is in no way equal in taste to the Prime USA Beef. I have a local meat importer import a 7KG. raw slab of prime rib for me with the corresponding papers to prove their origin and prime grading. I usually spend around P8-9k but I don't do it often only for special occasions. I avoid Australian and New Zealand beef because generally they have a more grassy taste in their meat that I don't like.
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Hindi pareho...
Locally:
The best steaks at least in terms of U.S.A. Prime Rib are Antonios in Tagaytay and Prince Albert at Intercon. Easily above and beyond p2k a piece. Crisp outside and very soft, juicy and tasty.
Red at the Shangril La Makati has gone down in quality which used to be the best when they had a more consistent supply of Rossini beef.
House of Minis is one of the worst steaks -- they are just a little bit above fastfood grade paper thin sizzling 'steak'. Mag Mario's ka na lang.
USA:
Smith & Wolensky (New York) was once my favorite when they use to make a special bbq spice rub on the prime rib with bearnaise sauce. Now they don't offer it anymore or do that special service.
Instead my farovite now is Gallagher at Manhattan because they are the only guys that grill their prime rib over charcoal and the great thing about them is you get to see their aging room through an aquarium (heh heh).
Ruths New York is still tough to beat if you want your prime rib with bone in. It takes longer to cook but the bone in keeps the meet moist. Also Ruths Maui, Hawai has better tasting prime rib for the sole reason that they use their local butter -- which for some reason tastes so good -- specially when the slather the butter slice on steak fresh from the grill.
Local Cooking:
Local beef cannot even compare. So for my personal cooking I only use local tenderloin and it is in no way equal in taste to the USA. I have a local meat importer import a 7KG. raw slab of prime rib for me with the corresponding papers to prove their origin and prime grading. I usually spend around P8-9k but I don't do it often only for special occasions. I avoid Australian and New Zealand beef because generally they have a more grassy taste in their meat that I don't like.
waaaahh!!! sarap ng usapan!! hehehe..great info here! AWESOME steak insights! :)
The best steaks at least in terms of U.S.A. Prime Rib are Antonios in Tagaytay and Prince Albert at Intercon. Easily above and beyond p2k a piece. Crisp outside and very soft, juicy and tasty.
damn! sarap.
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1. Cheap kasi habol kaya aandar na bias ng Pinoy at lalabas ang pagka binga niya.
2. What makes you think an Asian can get or hear the same sound that a Western winder can get?
:) Dodjie, Nice to hear you on this thread.
There are a few *biases* to #2.
1) If an experienced US-based winder is testing his pickups on guitars on amps on 120V US voltage, that in itself is a problem, once he comes to the RP using amps at 220V. Sa kuryente pa lang may factor na.
2) I honestly do NOT agree that an Asian ear is less responsive to an American ear. HOWEVER, EXPERIENCE can train you to hear different nuances that you cannot simply learn overnight. Case in point. Tube amps vs. emulated amps. For someone who has experienced emulations his whole life in the bedroom, he might not appreciate the nuances of a real tube amp he prefers (emulated) during a single experience, but once he starts comparing both the real amp and the emulated amp in his bedroom, every day every night, his hearing will be able to evoke a preference. Pickups, could also be the same, if experience is a huge factor. It is possible that some rewinding dude for the past 50 years knows if there is something wrong with one of his pickups, that an ordinary guy cannot hear or feel.
3) Not contrary to number (2), if there is a certain process that you can clone in making pickups, to the most detailed specs, you can *bypass* the ear of the beholder. That means, if the manufacturing process is consistent, and true to spec, it is possible that some Chinese factory can make true-to-PAF sounds for cheap. Again, that is if the process is perfect and consistent.
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hindi ko alam kung bakit ganto tong taong to (firemodel55). pardon me mods
why dont you just appreciate that local talents try to produce something ?
dissing local bands as cheap yet ikaw mismo eh kaya mo gawin mga ginagawa nila?
sikat kaba? ano napatunayan mo sa music industry?
sa tagal ko ng nag babasa ng mga post mo e nakakatawa ka talaga.
Fair questions. I will give my answer pero sana hindi ka ma PIKON.
Most local talent -- around 90% are NOT up to par thats why I cannot appreciate or endorse them to you who want to spend on them. I am NOT protecting myself. I am protecting you from spending less on substandard product.
Kaya ba ng local bands ang ginagagawa ko? I think not. Lets dispense with this rich versus poor thinking because you sound like a communist. Point#1: Some of us have chosen to get a paying day job DESPITE the fact we want to play music. Point#2: We realize that no matter how successful we become locally it will NOT be enough to support a family and afford us gear. Point#3: Its not our fault that we have more money because we made the right choices in life THAT COMPLEMENTED OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL TALENTS and affords us better gear than the 'average' gigging musician. Its choice.
What is the local music industry? Its Will Time Big Time (Willie Villarame) ... have you checked the Hit Chart lately? There ain't a guy named kozki on it. My personal quest is to get local artists to realize how bad sounding they are so that they get more people to watch and listen to them and eventually pay more for their talent.
Kozki, if you are a musician, how much taxes do your pay to our government? I used to pay a lot ... before I got hit by cancer. I think of my personal taxes as subsidizing other musicians to live the unrealistic 'cool' lifestyle and yet don't pay income tax.
I remember a story that was told to me about Pepe Smith. When he goes on stage, sisigaw siya ng ROCK N ROLL and ma feel mo talaga ang charisma niya dahil lahat ng tao ay sisigaw at maririnig mo sa back stage. Ang malungkot ito -- pag baba niya sa backstage, humihingi ng tirang pagkain ng roadie at tech at ng mga ibang banda para mauwi sa bahay nila. Ito ang isang halimbawa ng MAY NAPROVE SA MUSIC INDUSTRY pero nagugutom. Iyan ba inaasam asam mo? Further down the road today, Pepe Smith makes money by promoting alcohol and sex which I think FHM does a better job at. I just cannot appreciate that . Sino nakakatawa ngayon?
In fact every band on the Tanduay Tour is not worth appreciation because its a simple grab for income. We Filipinos just cannot pay them up front if they tour the local bars. We don't buy CDs anymore and instead rip their songs for free. We just give them miniscule royalties for their ring tones instead of paying them full for the song.
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OT: Kahit sina Charice, Arnel Pineda, Apl De Ap, sa international record deals lang nakakuha nang maayos na production budgets, both live and recording.
But that should not hinder us from pushing the envelope. It starts off with constructive (and sometimes destructive) criticism to know where our music stands. For the record, an average music critic in the world does not care where music is made, whether it was done in your bedroom or in a prime studio in Nashville. It is how a pure artform is produced - the means to an end. And pickups on guitars to amps to mics to console to producer and record engineers matter.
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Its not our fault that we have more money because we made the right choices in life THAT COMPLEMENTED OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL TALENTS and affords us better gear than the 'average' gigging musician. Its a choice.
--this is nice..can be applied to a lot of things..not only music..
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Hindi pareho...
Locally:
The best steaks at least in terms of U.S.A. Prime Rib are Antonios in Tagaytay and Prince Albert at Intercon. Easily above and beyond p2k a piece. Crisp outside and very soft, juicy and tasty.
Red at the Shangril La Makati has gone down in quality which used to be the best when they had a more consistent supply of Rossini beef.
House of Minis is one of the worst steaks -- they are just a little bit above fastfood grade paper thin sizzling 'steak'. Mag Mario's ka na lang.
USA:
Smith & Wolensky (New York) was once my favorite when they use to make a special bbq spice rub on the prime rib with bearnaise sauce. Now they don't offer it anymore or do that special service.
Instead my farovite now is Gallagher at Manhattan because they are the only guys that grill their prime rib over charcoal and the great thing about them is you get to see their aging room through an aquarium (heh heh).
Ruths New York is still tough to beat if you want your prime rib with bone in. It takes longer to cook but the bone in keeps the meet moist. Also Ruths Maui, Hawai has better tasting prime rib for the sole reason that they use their local butter -- which for some reason tastes so good -- specially when the slather the butter slice on steak fresh from the grill.
Local Cooking:
Local beef cannot even compare. So for my personal cooking I only use local tenderloin and it is in no way equal in taste to the USA. I have a local meat importer import a 7KG. raw slab of prime rib for me with the corresponding papers to prove their origin and prime grading. I usually spend around P8-9k but I don't do it often only for special occasions. I avoid Australian and New Zealand beef because generally they have a more grassy taste in their meat that I don't like.
Okay, that settles it. I'm having steak for dinner. Hello, masakit na batok.
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ART IN WINDING PICKUPS? I think the real art to it is how to use ears and measurements as well as 'tidiness' to build CONSISTENT PICKUPS. Heck, even the PAFs and PATENTED humbuckers of 1957 to 1960 were NOT consistent. So if Mr. Tom Holmes claims he knows the *secret* to the PAF sound, he also must know how much each pickups from the same era varied from one to another. It is no different than output transformers... same wire, same iron, same maker, but no two Plexis sound alike (even with the same amount of usage) because the output transformers of the '60s Marshalls were so 'tambak'.
IMO, there might be an art to it, but a "magnet with a coil of wire" is a "magnet with of a coil of wire" is a "magnet with of coil of wire". I don't think I would spend more than $300 for a pickup set.
yup there is art to it(if your definition of art is...skill acquired by experience, study, or observation...it fits the bill)...just for the sake of a good argument...why would anybody be looking for consistency from different sets of hands that do the same job? some connosouire's and boutique pickup builder preffer certain winder in the days past(e.g. don mare-josie, a.y.....) fender for example has a lot of winders...equal lahat yun they got the same material stocks in building a pickup...have'nt you wondered why certain winders(among old fender's) has that magic to it(again not 100% but a great percentage). On your example of PAF 57-60' its narrowed down by the fact that they have a number(individuals) that wound the PAF thats why its inconsistent... and no tracings on who's the employee that winded them(i bet that the same winder has a level of consistency). unlike on some old fenders na may markings...and thats just one area why they are inconsistent.
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There are a few *biases* to #2.
1) If an experienced US-based winder is testing his pickups on guitars on amps on 120V US voltage, that in itself is a problem, once he comes to the RP using amps at 220V. Sa kuryente pa lang may factor na.
(Yeah but how come Jim Rolph pickups sound better in my Baker Firemodel 55 on my amps at 220 volts than any locally produced pickup?)
2) I honestly do NOT agree that an Asian ear is less responsive to an American ear. HOWEVER, EXPERIENCE can train you to hear different nuances that you cannot simply learn overnight. Case in point. Tube amps vs. emulated amps. For someone who has experienced emulations his whole life in the bedroom, he might not appreciate the nuances of a real tube amp he prefers (emulated) during a single experience, but once he starts comparing both the real amp and the emulated amp in his bedroom, every day every night, his hearing will be able to evoke a preference. Pickups, could also be the same, if experience is a huge factor. It is possible that some rewinding dude for the past 50 years knows if there is something wrong with one of his pickups, that an ordinary guy cannot hear or feel.
(I say less responsive to Guitar gear. There may be exceptional Asians but they are NO match to Americans and Europeans with exceptional ears with regards to Guitar Equipment. So, following your logic, nasaan na itong Asian pickup winder na may real amp na kinokompara every day sa kanyang emulated amp? Following your logic, there are Americans with 50 years winding experience NOW, why do we have to wait for the Asian winder with 50 years experience?
3) Not contrary to number (2), if there is a certain process that you can clone in making pickups, to the most detailed specs, you can *bypass* the ear of the beholder. That means, if the manufacturing process is consistent, and true to spec, it is possible that some Chinese factory can make true-to-PAF sounds for cheap. Again, that is if the process is perfect and consistent.
(Kung totoo iyon, read through my first post, Gibson USA did not need to hire JTRibiloff. Read between the lines. Gibson could have picked their strictest specification and produced modern PAFs. It takes a JTRBibiloff to hear and tell them. I think the misconception is that you can manufacture pickups and solid body electrical guitars to specification and have them sound the same and great. Not true as my experienced with my own Suhr and its sister guitars. As I experience with several Gibson Custom Shops with almost the same specification -- kulay lang ng paint ang kakaiba. Again, kung specification lang iyan? Bakit may magandang Fender Custom Shop Tele at panget na Fender Custom Shop Tele?)
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i'm just saying it has nothing to do with the source, just the intentions behind the products, but really, i agree. yung quality they produce elsewhere isn't available here. not yet. and it probably will never be. kasi there's really no need for another boutique winder (ang dami na as is e) and the cheapo replacement stuff they have on the shelves is already selling well.
the boutique pickup market isn't just worth investing in for them. its too small kasi.
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Again, kung specification lang iyan? Bakit may magandang Fender Custom Shop Tele at panget na Fender Custom Shop Tele?
because only God can make a tree and only God will be able to perfectly clone one din.
iba yung magnet, wire, plastic/fiber bobbin. if really wanted to make a to-the-miniscule-detail perfect replica, you could. program each wire turn into a computer (the path each wire turn makes on the pickups, the tension and all that) for each bobbin, use the exact same materials (which are all man made so you can replicate them), degauss the magnet to the exact same strength and you could make a perfect (exact) replica of a PAF.
look at throbak using the same material AND Gibson winding machines in the hopes that they'd luck out and produce some magical PAF buckers the same way Gibson lucked out in the 50's. if they were to fully computerize and program a "magical" PAF like the way they produce those little Intel chips (really, how hard could a pickup be to make compared to a multi-core processor?), they'd be able to reproduce them more consistently. Level Asian na.
of course you'd have to sacrifice a PAF and spend a lot of money on machines to do it. so walang gagawa nun dito kasi thats the expensive way to go.
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Okay, that settles it. I'm having steak for dinner. Hello, masakit na batok.
Just to add in ASEAN:
Singapore:
Cut -- is the restaurant of Wolfgang Puck located in Marina Sands. Hands down it has the best tasting steak in Singapore.
Hong Kong:
Gaddis at the Peninsula -- Michelin Star restaurant na sobrang sarap ng steak maski na wala masyadong mga sauce
Joel de Rubochon Hong Kong Side-- Masara rin dito but be prepared to spend aroudn P8k per head for a complete meal that includes steak
Mario Batalis restaurant -- Have not tried it yet kasi hindi pa bukas noong pumunta ako doon. Pero I tried his Lupa resto in Hong Kong and ang sarap ng mga italian cold cuts niya... melts in the mouth like butter pero lasa ng specific na karneng ginawang cold cuts and hindi panay alat lang ang lasa. I tried his Po in Greenwich Village New York when I was debating whether to buy the Tele at Matt Umanovs, and grabe ang Italian Sausage Sandwich niya na malayo sa mga local offerings. Ang layo.
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OT: Kahit sina Charice, Arnel Pineda, Apl De Ap, sa international record deals lang nakakuha nang maayos na production budgets, both live and recording.
But that should not hinder us from pushing the envelope. It starts off with constructive (and sometimes destructive) criticism to know where our music stands. For the record, an average music critic in the world does not care where music is made, whether it was done in your bedroom or in a prime studio in Nashville. It is how a pure artform is produced - the means to an end. And pickups on guitars to amps to mics to console to producer and record engineers matter.
I think my point is that NOT everybody and NOT every nation collectively can push the envelope to the highest level. It takes an America to put a man on the moon which I think never will the Philippine nation collectively do. There are just more talented people than others. The average music critic may not care but unfortunately, the music industry in the USA is still the biggest and that says a lot. Charice never made it to Mariah Carey, Madonna, Lady Gaga, Pink, Beyonce, Celine Dion level. Arnel whom I feel is better than Sharon or Sarah, is just what one fourth or fifth or sixth (who knows) of Journey coming after Steve Perry. Apl de Ap is just one fourth of Black Eyed Peas and quite honestly I prefer Fergie on all fronts not to mention nicer to look at. Check out Fergie vox on Paradise City on the recent Slash solo album.
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because only God can make a tree and only God will be able to perfectly clone one din.
iba yung magnet, wire, plastic/fiber bobbin. if really wanted to make a to-the-miniscule-detail perfect replica, you could. program each wire turn into a computer (the path each wire turn makes on the pickups, the tension and all that) for each bobbin, use the exact same materials (which are all man made so you can replicate them), degauss the magnet to the exact same strength and you could make a perfect (exact) replica of a PAF.
look at throbak using the same material AND Gibson winding machines in the hopes that they'd luck out and produce some magical PAF buckers the same way Gibson lucked out in the 50's. if they were to fully computerize and program a "magical" PAF like the way they produce those little Intel chips (really, how hard could a pickup be to make compared to a multi-core processor?), they'd be able to reproduce them more consistently. Level Asian na.
of course you'd have to sacrifice a PAF and spend a lot of money on machines to do it. so walang gagawa nun dito kasi thats the expensive way to go.
Not to mention a lot of people do not like PAFs. Kaya nga nung pinawax pot ni EVH yung PAF sa Frankenstrat niya, that meant he was not contented with it.
And the main reason why higher output pickups were invented was to address the "weak output" of PAFs. Same thing with Strat pickups.
To make a long story short, it still depends on the preference of the player.
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because only God can make a tree and only God will be able to perfectly clone one din.
iba yung magnet, wire, plastic/fiber bobbin. if really wanted to make a to-the-miniscule-detail perfect replica, you could. program each wire turn into a computer (the path each wire turn makes on the pickups, the tension and all that) for each bobbin, use the exact same materials (which are all man made so you can replicate them), degauss the magnet to the exact same strength and you could make a perfect (exact) replica of a PAF.
look at throbak using the same material AND Gibson winding machines in the hopes that they'd luck out and produce some magical PAF buckers the same way Gibson lucked out in the 50's. if they were to fully computerize and program a "magical" PAF like the way they produce those little Intel chips (really, how hard could a pickup be to make compared to a multi-core processor?), they'd be able to reproduce them more consistently. Level Asian na.
of course you'd have to sacrifice a PAF and spend a lot of money on machines to do it. so walang gagawa nun dito kasi thats the expensive way to go.
According to my reliable source, Gibson never used the winding machines in the 50s. They had trouble inserting the lead line to wind the wire around the bobbins. They only got it right in the 60s.
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According to my reliable source, Gibson never used the winding machines in the 50s. They had trouble inserting the lead line to wind the wire around the bobbins. They only got it right in the 60s.
Sabi ni Fermin yan?
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According to my reliable source, Gibson never used the winding machines in the 50s. They had trouble inserting the lead line to wind the wire around the bobbins. They only got it right in the 60s.
so all that hoopla about throbak being the closest thing you can get is crap pala, and they're really no better than the stuff SD makes, since they're really making replicas of the slightly less magical patent sticker pickups of the 60s (which were advertised as exactly like the PAFs of the 50s, nagiba lang daw yung sticker).
but my point is, with the tech available today, if you had a good (ie, "magical") pickup that you're willing to dissect, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to replicate it exactly if you had access to a fully programmable winder/string guider/tensioner (which asians could definitely build).
masyado lang talaga maliit yung market and Asians have bigger things on their minds. like monsters like Godzilla destroying our cities.
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wait, does this mean if any of those builders train an asian for about half a year or less and that builder says they got it right..does that mean they still didn't get it right?
the builder can still test those pickups afterwards and there are asians that are meticulous about what they do, will that qualify?
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wait, does this mean if any of those builders train an asian for about half a year or less and that builder says they got it right..does that mean they still didn't get it right?
the builder can still test those pickups afterwards and there are asians that are meticulous about what they do, will that qualify?
Well, there was this guy who tried to fool the folks at The Gearpage one time. Knowing the cork-sniffing culture in there, he tried to rebadge/repaint some Joyo overdrive pedals and sold 'em for a much higher price. And then the bells and whistles in the forum about those pedals, up until some dude from the forum deconstructed the pedals and found out they were some Chinese assemblies resembling Joyos... then later on a major [gooey brown stuff] in the forum took place, with a lot of legal threats from the lawyers in the forum.
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:)
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Don't get me wrong, I USE MY EARS. Again, it is relative. There are some things that I may (or may not) hear that you can't (or can).
I am open to the idea that an ultra mega limited boutique pickup can sound better than a run-off-the mill pickup. But then again, it is all about economics. For all I care, maybe my inadequacy to get some expensive pickups can be compensated by working on my Presence knob on the amp. :D
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Well, there was this guy who tried to fool the folks at The Gearpage one time. Knowing the cork-sniffing culture in there, he tried to rebadge/repaint some Joyo overdrive pedals and sold 'em for a much higher price. And then the bells and whistles in the forum about those pedals, up until some dude from the forum deconstructed the pedals and found out they were some Chinese assemblies resembling Joyos... then later on a major [gooey brown stuff] in the forum took place, with a lot of legal threats from the lawyers in the forum.
Freekish Blues Alpha Drive.
wait, does this mean if any of those builders train an asian for about half a year or less and that builder says they got it right..does that mean they still didn't get it right?
the builder can still test those pickups afterwards and there are asians that are meticulous about what they do, will that qualify?
I think it's a matter of precision vs. accuracy. Precision is required to build good pickups right but accuracy is required to consistently build them. About your example, if you give that Asian dude a few years of mileage then he might further develop his attention to sonic detail and proper pickup building methodology.
how about those super super expensive spanish Hams? I saw 1 here 1 leg..is like a hundred thousand pesos..no kidding! ganda pa ng packaging may parang sash na special na nakatali..tapos may special mount yun then slice nila thinly for tapas..sarap with wine..
(http://www.ibmse.eu/dict/spanish_ham.jpg)
http://www.ibmse.eu/dict/jamon.htm
Amazing...
Ill always remember this..and take it to heart..
The steak analogy has already been played enough. Please stop derailing the discussion with your off-topic posts.
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I think it's a matter of precision vs. accuracy. Precision is required to build good pickups right but accuracy is required to consistently build them. About your example, if you give that Asian dude a few years of mileage then he might further develop his attention to sonic detail and proper pickup building methodology.
good point, so does this mean he doesn't trust the ears of others?but if there will be a formula (which i know there is) for his technique..he can pass it down to anyone anytime and it doesn't need xx number of years of practice. still he can train one, hear the outcome 'coz for sure that builder will have minute differences in his build, he is human after all.
but it's slightly OT :)
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good point, so does this mean he doesn't trust the ears of others?but if there will be a formula (which i know there is) for his technique..he can pass it down to anyone anytime and it doesn't need xx number of years of practice. still he can train one, hear the outcome 'coz for sure that builder will have minute differences in his build, he is human after all.
but it's slightly OT :)
For business-minded people, trade secrets aren't supposed to be given or passed on just like that. Exclusivity has its perks. I guess that's the business side of it, though.
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Freekish Blues Alpha Drive.
This is what ends up if you try to fool those cork sniffers in that forum..maybe they heard some small chinese accent on the pedal :-D
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Ay, the world would be so much interesting if products, including music products, don't have a "MADE IN (insert country)" stamp. LOL
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Ay, the world would be so much interesting if products, including music products, don't have a "MADE IN (insert country)" stamp. LOL
Taking that label out would throw the global economy into disarray. Haha.
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This is what ends up if you try to fool those cork sniffers in that forum..maybe they heard some small chinese accent on the pedal :-D
Fleekish Blues?
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Fleekish Blues?
haha nice one...maybe an asian pickup ending up as a rebadged western boutique is not far behind. There was some speculations months ago(other forums) that a certain western boutique p/u builder is actually rebadging a stewmac humbuckers or part of it. OT: akala ko dati yung tonerider at GFS came from the same manufacturer.
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i wonder if the first guitar was made in china and sounded what MIC guitars now sounds like... and the amps were made in china and sound like MIC amps.. and the pickups were made in china and sounded like MIC pups... and become the baseline as "vintage tone"
and people from there was the ones who got the magical mic vintage tone...
would anyone say... the dumble + gil yaron + boutique pups sounds crap, because a mic guitar + mic amp + mic pups blow them away... im just wondering :-D
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i wonder if the first guitar was made in china and sounded what MIC guitars now sounds like... and the amps were made in china and sound like MIC amps.. and the pickups were made in china and sounded like MIC pups... and become the baseline as "vintage tone"
and people from there was the ones who got the magical mic vintage tone...
would anyone say... the dumble + gil yaron + boutique pups sounds crap, because a mic guitar + mic amp + mic pups blow them away... im just wondering :-D
Parang Alternate Universe yan ah. Mala-SLIDERS! :lol:
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how about those super super expensive spanish Hams? I saw 1 here 1 leg..is like a hundred thousand pesos..sarap with wine.. Amazing... Ill always remember this..and take it to heart..
The steak analogy has already been played enough. Please stop derailing the discussion with your off-topic posts.
:lol:
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Nice to hear from you over there Joric... Hope everything is well...
I'm good, thanks. Hope all is well with you, too.
Its not that difficult to compare pickups... Just put the new pickup set into a guitar that you own or are familiar with. If its difficult or don't hear much of a difference, either the new picups are NOT really different or you are deaf. :)
Indeed, that's the proper way to do it: all things being equal in the guitar, the pu is the only variable. But then, who is to say what's sounds better? What are the standards for measurement/comparison of what is good vs bad? We all know this types of discussion have no resolution but it's certainly nice and useful to talk about the relative merits of each, especially if done in a constructive and educational way.
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I'm good, thanks. Hope all is well with you, too.
Indeed, that's the proper way to do it: all things being equal in the guitar, the pu is the only variable. But then, who is to say what's sounds better? What are the standards for measurement/comparison of what is good vs bad? We all know this types of discussion have no resolution but it's certainly nice and useful to talk about the relative merits of each, especially if done in a constructive and educational way.
Kamusta ang Snow diyan and ok ka na ba from Sandy?
Thats the magic of guitar... a group of people experts and non experts can actually get together and agree on what guitar sounds magical -- assuming both types of people can hear. I think discussions have no resolution because its in the hearing that really solves the dilemna. And it begins with realizing at some point in your life that you have LOWER standards than others. I started that way when Arie showed me a long time ago that ALL my 14 guitars at the same time -- Custom Shop ESPs, MIJ Ibanez, a 76 Gilbson Custom Les Paul -- with the exception of one Kirk Hammet Super Strat had no character. Even the Kirk Hammet today does not hold a candle to my Suhr Modern which Arie will testify is his favorite humbuckered Suhr with character. My other Suhr Strat is his favorite Strat to date.
I strongly suggest you go to Dan Chelsea's and talk to the guys there. Ask them what they sound is a killer sounding guitar from their inventory. These guys are NOT afraid to even suggest a used japanese guitar. They are ALSO NOT afraid to suggest a vintage golden era guitar if they believe it sounds good. So, kung kanya kanya lang iyan, their store wouldn't even recommend a japanese guitar while at the same time recommend a vintage guitar right? The magic questions is to ask: What guitar sounds good with character in YOUR used inventory?
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--this is nice..can be applied to a lot of things..not only music..
I just want to say that there are advantages to a gigging musician such as doing what you love doing and facing less corproate crap and politics one has to. Of course, most of the time parang kulang ang pera and you have to deal with other band members who are different in how they behave and think. I mean its an ok lifestyle if you don't intend to raise a family and try to raise your standard of living. For me, it would have been the ultimately single life if I had an inheritance to sit on and unfortunately or fortunately, I met my wife and had to make a choice.
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so all that hoopla about throbak being the closest thing you can get is crap pala, and they're really no better than the stuff SD makes, since they're really making replicas of the slightly less magical patent sticker pickups of the 60s (which were advertised as exactly like the PAFs of the 50s, nagiba lang daw yung sticker).
but my point is, with the tech available today, if you had a good (ie, "magical") pickup that you're willing to dissect, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to replicate it exactly if you had access to a fully programmable winder/string guider/tensioner (which asians could definitely build).
masyado lang talaga maliit yung market and Asians have bigger things on their minds. like monsters like Godzilla destroying our cities.
I am NOT saying Throbaks are crap. Never tested them. They may be better than SDs though on the average. I guess we can ask Throbak users but I think my point was the claim on the winding machine was a bit over.
Now with regards to tech today, that other than the machine, you assume consistent wire diameter an correct copper formulation and size, correct metallurgic and consistent magnet and stud formulation, correct size bobbin, correct pickup cover formulation, size and thickness, correct wire, correct metallugrical and base plate size, correct tape or wrap, toneful maple spacer, etc... If it was ideal than maybe you can copy one specific magical sounding PAF with one press of a button on the winding machine. My point is whats the use of attaining the ideal which may cost a lot, when Jim Rolph can already produce great sounding PAFs today that beat all average and bad sounding PAFs of the 50s? I mean he has a better shot than all of us even before Throbak was producing PAFs and given his menu of customers -- you have already probably heard his pickups --- what have you got to lose? Thats why I think most of the diminution of boutiqe pickups is due to people who cannot admit that they cannot afford them. I am NOT saying all boutique pickups are great. I am just saying that the great boutique pickups are worth the price for -- MORE than worth what you will pay for a Duncan or for a DiMarzio.
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I just want to say that there are advantages to a gigging musician such as doing what you love doing and facing less corproate crap and politics one has to. Of course, most of the time parang kulang ang pera and you have to deal with other band members who are different in how they behave and think. I mean its an ok lifestyle if you don't intend to raise a family and try to raise your standard of living. For me, it would have been the ultimately single life if I had an inheritance to sit on and unfortunately or fortunately, I met my wife and had to make a choice.
can relate with this..:) though you can have that high paying day job but still a gigging musician on the side(ironic but majority of the ones who becomes famous bands now doesn't really do gigs everyday. instead they have a day job, write songs and record..).
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Don't get me wrong, I USE MY EARS. Again, it is relative. There are some things that I may (or may not) hear that you can't (or can).
I am open to the idea that an ultra mega limited boutique pickup can sound better than a run-off-the mill pickup. But then again, it is all about economics. For all I care, maybe my inadequacy to get some expensive pickups can be compensated by working on my Presence knob on the amp. :D
The question is how tuned or exposed are your EARS at this point in time... Is it really about EARs? Where are your EARs connected? To your brain right? I would go on to say that the signals from your brain actually connect to your HEART. If something I hear does not cause me to skip a beat then most likely it does not have the magic. I then use my brain and suspend bias to test that specific gear on other scenarios because you never know with the right combination, it may make my HEART skip a beat. So, in my case its not a matter of a presence knob. Its a case of knowing when to use a presence knob in the overall timpla and NOT to adjust for pickups. I mean no matter how much presence you add or reduce, you still will not get the 3D dimensionality of a good pickup nor we do we get the defined pick attack that so many people confuse that the Presence knob will do. Its like saying that if your hammer ons and pull offs sound muted, we can increase the presence knob to make it sound that all the notes used on hammer ons and pull offs were picked...
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The question is how tuned or exposed are your EARS at this point in time... Is it really about EARs? Where are your EARs connected? To your brain right? I would go on to say that the signals from your brain actually connect to your HEART. If something I hear does not cause me to skip a beat then most likely it does not have the magic. I then use my brain and suspend bias to test that specific gear on other scenarios because you never know with the right combination, it may make my HEART skip a beat...
I'm a lurker and I'm quite amused how people react to Sir FM55's principles. Surprisingly, I see the same thing happening in different scenarios of life, and for the most of my part, when I try to share someone my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The point when people get either irritated or enlightened, is when their personal beliefs/convictions gets challenged. Either they tell me, I-have-my-own-I'm-content-don't-mess-me-with-your-stuff, or they say, 'Oh my, you're right'.
For your, uhm, ear analogy I'd have to agree with that. Last week I got my guitar from sir Al Austria (Alalala Guitar Services), and he gave me the pleasure of trying out my guitar in his low, 1-watt diy tube amp. I almost couldn't speak, my throat felt a lump rising when I heard how it sounded. For my ears, it was glorious. I mean, if I have an amp like that, and could play well like Sir Al did, and I was leading a worship song in a church, that sound would immensely help my heart worship the Lord. After all, He did invent music for us.
I've read one of Sir FM55's post how he told that the lack of exposure is what limits many (from maker to user) to achieve tone. For my part, that was true. Crappy instruments and crappy musicianship is what mostly my ears were exposed to, and to hear (for my part, again) a glorious tone from a tube (oh my! toob amp!) amp showed me one thing -- there is something better out there worth getting. Of course I KNOW I will never have those stuff fm55 have, but hey, if resources permit and circumstances be reasonable, why not get something better than what I have? I see Sir FM55 as someone who got to a better level, and now is showing there are indeed some things way much better.
And that is where he gets berated. I've read somewhere that there was a guy who painstakingly learned perfect pitch. For years he labored to hone his ear to get perfect pitch, and one day, he did. The rest of his days were stressful for him, because he cringes every time he hears a un-perfect pitch. Sir FM55 ran for the best of tone, and he did. Now, for him, all those not-so-good-tone is a rip-off to those who swore by them (sir fm55, if I'm wrong in this, forgive me).
I often repeat the phrase 'for my part' as this is my, say, personal observation. Mejo nakikita ko lang where the zeal of Sir FM55 is coming from as far as his point of view (or point of hearing?) is concerned on getting better tones from better instruments.
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I'm a lurker and I'm quite amused how people react to Sir FM55's principles. Surprisingly, I see the same thing happening in different scenarios of life, and for the most of my part, when I try to share someone my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The point when people get either irritated or enlightened, is when their personal beliefs/convictions gets challenged. Either they tell me, I-have-my-own-I'm-content-don't-mess-me-with-your-stuff, or they say, 'Oh my, you're right'.
For your, uhm, ear analogy I'd have to agree with that. Last week I got my guitar from sir Al Austria (Alalala Guitar Services), and he gave me the pleasure of trying out my guitar in his low, 1-watt diy tube amp. I almost couldn't speak, my throat felt a lump rising when I heard how it sounded. For my ears, it was glorious. I mean, if I have an amp like that, and could play well like Sir Al did, and I was leading a worship song in a church, that sound would immensely help my heart worship the Lord. After all, He did invent music for us.
I've read one of Sir FM55's post how he told that the lack of exposure is what limits many (from maker to user) to achieve tone. For my part, that was true. Crappy instruments and crappy musicianship is what mostly my ears were exposed to, and to hear (for my part, again) a glorious tone from a tube (oh my! toob amp!) amp showed me one thing -- there is something better out there worth getting. Of course I KNOW I will never have those stuff fm55 have, but hey, if resources permit and circumstances be reasonable, why not get something better than what I have? I see Sir FM55 as someone who got to a better level, and now is showing there are indeed some things way much better.
And that is where he gets berated. I've read somewhere that there was a guy who painstakingly learned perfect pitch. For years he labored to hone his ear to get perfect pitch, and one day, he did. The rest of his days were stressful for him, because he cringes every time he hears a un-perfect pitch. Sir FM55 ran for the best of tone, and he did. Now, for him, all those not-so-good-tone is a rip-off to those who swore by them (sir fm55, if I'm wrong in this, forgive me).
I often repeat the phrase 'for my part' as this is my, say, personal observation. Mejo nakikita ko lang where the zeal of Sir FM55 is coming from as far as his point of view (or point of hearing?) is concerned on getting better tones from better instruments.
Thank you... There is also another level of exposure that makes it worthwhile. Talking and feeling with this boutique builders who really care and strive for excellence and people who know about tone.
I just want to highlight people like Gil Yaron, Jim Rolph, Cliff Cultreri, when I talk to them say that they are also NOT making enough money. They are simple people with passion. Gil has told me that despite his prices, he does not consider himself rich by Israeli standards. When I talk to Jim, he is living off his retirement from the Air Force, he used to fix F4 Phantom jets during the Vietnam War. Cliff currently has to have his right leg amputated this year and the left one next year. Plus his son recently got into a car accident and is in critical care... Don't know yet the status on that one. Granted that not everybody can afford to buy their gear but I just want to point out that they are NOT making a lot of money as we think they are. If anything, its the moments that I converse with them than really makes what I spend more worth it. For example, Cliff was the first guy to tell me that only God knows why certain builders can get it right while the others cannot given the same starting material, knowledge and training. Jim on the other hand loves to 'kuwento' the 50s and 60s when he was touring with famous acts and describing the great sounding gear he was hearing. He would play his guitar and amp thru the phone and would test my hearing for more than an hour. That would rack up my phone bill but it was worth it. Gil would email stories to my inquiries and I enjoyed the build the process as much as my guitar.
Arie Hipolito is one such person.... many times I have told him to raise his refret prices because his quality really is one of the best in Asia and can beat the ass of a lot of U.S. refret jobs. But for Arie, its more about doing his referet right than raising prices. He is also a God Fearing man who does not want to 'bola' or fool people. He outright turns down jobs if he feels its not to your best advantage as a customer for him to work on it.
Yes I also cringe when I go to clubs because you cannot avoid it that when you come home that your feel more comfortable hearing your own gear. But that being said, I always enjoy Blue Rats at the Mandarin. They gig there every Thursday night. And if you want to learn about good sounding guitars with a balanced overall sound, watch them. Don't mind the conos and foriegners they are usually good indicators that the sound and what they are hearing sound good. Heh heh. They have got moolah to spend and won't stand for flat entrance fees 50 bands in a row that sound like buzz saws. Bwah hah hah.
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My point is whats the use of attaining the ideal which may cost a lot, when Jim Rolph can already produce great sounding PAFs today that beat all average and bad sounding PAFs of the 50s?
to reproduce the "magic"
1. perfectly at a much higher consistency than is possible with human hands involved
2. at large number so you don't have to charge so much for each piece (less human labor involved = much lower final cost; its not a ferrari or bentley; it has just 15 parts for 'buckers and 11 for tele bridge pickups; how hard can that be for a machine to do perfectly each time?)
3. to get them to more players as possible and, ultimately,
4. to raise the bar completely for everyone
we've wandered too far off topic na but, again, if the objective were to reproduce, or sotto-mize, "magical" pickups (really, when it comes to pickups, no one is really doing anything "new" or "different" except maybe kinman, adder and bill lawrence; everyone is just trying to copy what's already out there), we could just as easily do that here, well, maybe not here (but we did consistently produce excellent performing Intel chips before the plant closed down), but here in Asia. Just as easily as we produce most of the parts used for just about everything, like those magical "American" iPhones with their beautiful Retina displays (really, who makes those displays? Samsung; in fact, name any single component of that phone that was actually made in the US). but yun nga, its usually not The Goal of these Asian winders. Its not where they make their money.
and again, I really am agreeing with you. the good stuff is not being made here at all. it could be made here. but no one here wants to.
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what if... i decided to listen to fm55's advice and try to listen to the suhrs and the gil yarons with their boutique pickups plugged into an amp that would complement their awesomeness...
and at the end of the day, i still dont like those kind of tones? the build and playability and the feel may be night and day but what if i still dont like the tone...
would i be branded as a person who has poor hearing or even deaf? or maybe its just that... i have a different preference in tone and my brain tells me what i like or dislike?
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lets flip the shoe to the other side of the coin, err, foot, naman.
being mostly a tele player, you know what my only problem with boutique winders is? none of the really good tele winders I like, not OC Duff, not Fred Stuart, not Don Mare, and I've only heard 1 of Rolph's (the one in Alex's tele) but it applies to him too I think, none of them make hum-cancelling medium to high wind pickups like the Dimarzio rail types, which are actually quite decent (decent kasi distortion is The Great Equalizer) if you play with plenty of dirt dialed in. 2 yata yung meron heavier wind: harmonic design and Fralin. konti masyado ng options
pero yung boutique winders (bareknuckles, zhang, wcr, skatterbrane, etc.) for 'buckers, most of them offer higher wound pickups.
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Thank you... There is also another level of exposure that makes it worthwhile. Talking and feeling with this boutique builders who really care and strive for excellence and people who know about tone.
I just want to highlight people like Gil Yaron, Jim Rolph, Cliff Cultreri, when I talk to them say that they are also NOT making enough money. They are simple people with passion. Gil has told me that despite his prices, he does not consider himself rich by Israeli standards. When I talk to Jim, he is living off his retirement from the Air Force, he used to fix F4 Phantom jets during the Vietnam War. Cliff currently has to have his right leg amputated this year and the left one next year. Plus his son recently got into a car accident and is in critical care... Don't know yet the status on that one. Granted that not everybody can afford to buy their gear but I just want to point out that they are NOT making a lot of money as we think they are. If anything, its the moments that I converse with them than really makes what I spend more worth it. For example, Cliff was the first guy to tell me that only God knows why certain builders can get it right while the others cannot given the same starting material, knowledge and training. Jim on the other hand loves to 'kuwento' the 50s and 60s when he was touring with famous acts and describing the great sounding gear he was hearing. He would play his guitar and amp thru the phone and would test my hearing for more than an hour. That would rack up my phone bill but it was worth it. Gil would email stories to my inquiries and I enjoyed the build the process as much as my guitar.
Arie Hipolito is one such person.... many times I have told him to raise his refret prices because his quality really is one of the best in Asia and can beat the ass of a lot of U.S. refret jobs. But for Arie, its more about doing his referet right than raising prices. He is also a God Fearing man who does not want to 'bola' or fool people. He outright turns down jobs if he feels its not to your best advantage as a customer for him to work on it.
Yes I also cringe when I go to clubs because you cannot avoid it that when you come home that your feel more comfortable hearing your own gear. But that being said, I always enjoy Blue Rats at the Mandarin. They gig there every Thursday night. And if you want to learn about good sounding guitars with a balanced overall sound, watch them. Don't mind the conos and foriegners they are usually good indicators that the sound and what they are hearing sound good. Heh heh. They have got moolah to spend and won't stand for flat entrance fees 50 bands in a row that sound like buzz saws. Bwah hah hah.
Wait, he would play his guitar and make you listen to it and test your hearing through the phone for an hour? Please enlighten me on this one, I don't think that the phone is a good way to make somebody hear great guitar tones and and to test someone's hearing for maybe nuances or what-nots. I may be wrong though...
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Wait, he would play his guitar and make you listen to it and test your hearing through the phone for an hour? Please enlighten me on this one, I don't think that the phone is a good way to make somebody hear great guitar tones and and to test someone's hearing for maybe nuances or what-nots. I may be wrong though...
Well he would always ask me what I heard... To be honest, I am welcome to fly to his home and Kentucky to spend time with him on his gear. Besides I like phones better than mp3s recorded on you tube....
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to reproduce the "magic"
1. perfectly at a much higher consistency than is possible with human hands involved
2. at large number so you don't have to charge so much for each piece (less human labor involved = much lower final cost; its not a ferrari or bentley; it has just 15 parts for 'buckers and 11 for tele bridge pickups; how hard can that be for a machine to do perfectly each time?)
3. to get them to more players as possible and, ultimately,
4. to raise the bar completely for everyone
we've wandered too far off topic na but, again, if the objective were to reproduce, or sotto-mize, "magical" pickups (really, when it comes to pickups, no one is really doing anything "new" or "different" except maybe kinman, adder and bill lawrence; everyone is just trying to copy what's already out there), we could just as easily do that here, well, maybe not here (but we did consistently produce excellent performing Intel chips before the plant closed down), but here in Asia. Just as easily as we produce most of the parts used for just about everything, like those magical "American" iPhones with their beautiful Retina displays (really, who makes those displays? Samsung; in fact, name any single component of that phone that was actually made in the US). but yun nga, its usually not The Goal of these Asian winders. Its not where they make their money.
and again, I really am agreeing with you. the good stuff is not being made here at all. it could be made here. but no one here wants to.
1. Consistency? For pickups, are the machines the final say in consistency? I think not. Its how its heard by the maker in comparison to how he originally planned it.
2. What for large number? Pickup components are variably costed out. Actually, its cheaper to have it hand wound than invest in a machine to wind thousands of pickups that may not sell.
3. Get them to more players? He is already with a back log. Why would he need more to sell more?
4. Raise the bar? Kung ang great majority hindi makarinig, how can he raise the bar?
I think pickups though not as complicated as ICs are more variable. For the simple reason that there are just so few components that produce different results and flavors. Like wood, there is not much you can do to build character in them and yet they are homogenous and simple as a raw material. Either they have it or they don't to be guitar wood.
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Sorry pa epal lang mejo ganda topic :lol:...
I know what sir firemodel55 is trying to say, really I can relate. Not to say I am comparing myself like him, pero I am actually a brand person. Everytime I think of guitars it has to be branded, not to mention it has to be a western brand or tagged "made in U.S.A.". When I first got my first Fender strat which is MIM, (and fender strat is actually my dream guitar na hehehe), did I stop chasing fender strats? no. I actually just traded it right away and I will never stop trading until I get an American strat.
Back to the topic though, Sir firemodel55, I know you're an awesome guitar player (you must be) telling us up front and straightforward that asian pickups are way no match compared to of the western superb branded pickup, but sir I think you're only putting western sounds/western produced pickups/ western invented sounds/music/etc as a point reference to how a good sounding pickup must be. And even you said that Asians are less responsive to guitar gear. <_< (baaaad. Asian ka ba sir? hehehe)
Back to my first paragraph, I will never stop chasing that Am. fender strat, BUT I honestly think an epiphone les paul MIK/MIJ/MIC, (of course I would have to test each guitar pa), loaded with a simple seymour duncan JB, would already produce a great tone. And that's what I think. AND if I'm richie rich like you sir, I would never trade my first fender strat, to me pickups are of standard tone, not THAT superb tone, but definitely don't produce crap. I love the neck tone anyway. AND I willnever buy a $x,000 guitar! Unless, 3 Am. Standard strat, or probably a reissue, 2 standard Gibson LP, historic, whatever, and I will never change anything from it pa. but $x,000 on a single guitar and then customize it pa for another $x,000... :eek:
Well sir, let us not forget that having "good tone" produced is subjective. I don't know any branded asian pickups that I have tried personally, or any super $$$$western pickups tried personally, Pero for me sir, subjectively speaking, the tone preference is more on how the guitar speaks to you when you're playing it. CHEESY I know.. you might ask pa, "what about the audience listening" I think they observe well on the lyrics, how the vocs sing the song, how whole band made/play the music. My mom is fan of carpenters/Abba, but she never thought of even how the guitar sounds crap/good. My singer uncle (was in a band during his time)which is fan of Journey, but never gave a f*ck about the guitar brand, crap/good sound, etc.... UNLESS every audience in the world is like you sir who would critique the pickups they are using, the brand of the guitar/pickup, the science of the guitar, the luthier who made them.
Just like Eric Clapton said... it's all in the hands. hehehe. Peace ^-^
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Besides I like phones better than mp3s recorded on you tube....
Riiiiight.....
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Sorry pa epal lang mejo ganda topic :lol:...
(pasensya na Lang Kung susupalpalin kita....)
I know what sir firemodel55 is trying to say, really I can relate. Not to say I am comparing myself like him, pero I am actually a brand person. Everytime I think of guitars it has to be branded, not to mention it has to be a western brand or tagged "made in U.S.A.". When I first got my first Fender strat which is MIM, (and fender strat is actually my dream guitar na hehehe), did I stop chasing fender strats? no. I actually just traded it right away and I will never stop trading until I get an American strat.
(mamili ka rin ng American strat dahil marami rin ang Hindi maganda)
Back to the topic though, Sir firemodel55, I know you're an awesome guitar player (you must be) telling us up front and straightforward that asian pickups are way no match compared to of the western superb branded pickup, but sir I think you're only putting western sounds/western produced pickups/ western invented sounds/music/etc as a point reference to how a good sounding pickup must be. And even you said that Asians are less responsive to guitar gear. <_< (baaaad. Asian ka ba sir? hehehe)
(awesome in a different sense... Asian ako pero marunong ako umamin Kung mas magaling ang iba. di ba lahat ng tugtog mo sa gitara ay galling sa West? Eh sila ang nag pioneer ng Mga pickups. Di ba culture nila iyon at sila ang Mga expert? Parang sayaw ng tinikling. Hindi siguro tayo tatalunin ng Americans. Gaboon rin sa pickups.)
Back to my first paragraph, I will never stop chasing that Am. fender strat, BUT I honestly think an epiphone les paul MIK/MIJ/MIC, (of course I would have to test each guitar pa), loaded with a simple seymour duncan JB, would already produce a great tone. And that's what I think. AND if I'm richie rich like you sir, I would never trade my first fender strat, to me pickups are of standard tone, not THAT superb tone, but definitely don't produce crap. I love the neck tone anyway. AND I willnever buy a $x,000 guitar! Unless, 3 Am. Standard strat, or probably a reissue, 2 standard Gibson LP, historic, whatever, and I will never change anything from it pa. but $x,000 on a single guitar and then customize it pa for another $x,000... :eek:
(agree ako sa iyo na may epiphone na tatalo sa Gibson USA or Gibson custom shop. Pero ang pinakamagandang Gibson custom shop ay lalampasuhin ang pinakamagandang epiphone. Maski na parehong naka Seymour Duncan JB. Ngayon Kung palitan ko pa ng boutique pickup ang custom shop mas gaganda pa ang tunog. Para sa akin, kulang sa definition, pick attack and pagka 3D ang JB. Now it's up to you how to spend your money but what I can say is that your lack of money is financing your bias.)
Well sir, let us not forget that having "good tone" produced is subjective. I don't know any branded asian pickups that I have tried personally, or any super $$$$western pickups tried personally, Pero for me sir, subjectively speaking, the tone preference is more on how the guitar speaks to you when you're playing it. CHEESY I know.. you might ask pa, "what about the audience listening" I think they observe well on the lyrics, how the vocs sing the song, how whole band made/play the music. My mom is fan of carpenters/Abba, but she never thought of even how the guitar sounds crap/good. My singer uncle (was in a band during his time)which is fan of Journey, but never gave a f*ck about the guitar brand, crap/good sound, etc.... UNLESS every audience in the world is like you sir who would critique the pickups they are using, the brand of the guitar/pickup, the science of the guitar, the luthier who made them.
(let us not forget that a great number of people will say That Clapton has good tone and therefore not subjective. I think your mother should have listened to guns and roses instead of guitar light music like the carpenters or abba. Don't get me wrong, they are great songwriters but not known sa guitar. Well, there is reason Kung bakit pinili ni Neal schon si Arnel. Mas magaling na Mga singers ang Pinoys kaysa lumikha ng guitar tone. Heh heh. I disagree that people don't pay attention to guitar. Maybe pinoys. But if you listen to the remake of glee of don't stop believing they kept Neal schons guitar parts because it sounded great.)
Just like Eric Clapton said... it's all in the hands. hehehe. Peace ^-^
(teka muna Ito ba ang Eric Clapton na may signature series na gitara at signature series amp na mula sa fender? Di ba may paborito siyang gitarang Blackie na combination ng ibang year na neck at katawan na pinili niya? As I recall, he also has a signature amp made by Cornell. Also, I remember him contracting John Suhr to make him a pair of fender tweed amps with fender supplied parts.)
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Riiiiight.....
You bet... At least analog pa ang signal ko kaysa hindi completong digital...
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Riiiiight.....
i sense...................something.lol.balik na lang tayo sa steak analogy.hahahahaha. :-D
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lulz. lokohan ba ito
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You bet... At least analog pa ang signal ko kaysa hindi completong digital...
Sir isnt hearing thru live recorded tone to mp3 better than listening thru phone? kahit landline sir parang bitin yun e, :-(
anyways...
Yes clapton is good guitar player, general audience would say that, so is other bands... kasi if they weren't they wouldn't be famous after all..
My mom listened to GnR because my dead father used to be a fan of it, pero again, she cared more about the whole band playing it, not just slash alone.
My point lang sir is, how can you say that "asian" in general lacks of hearing capability to say that your hearing (in this case you're asian as well) has better hearing capability than the others when it comes to tones; or Asian pickups in general ulit, sucks compared to USA made. Are you sir somewhat a part of a perfect-tone-organization, or the-science-of-perfect-tone company, or maybe some sort of award winning hearing master of perfect tones, a critique on the exact master of tones? etc... You might own like a really super duper guitars with super duper pickups. And I also know that you have a good intention of making us tone literate, pero sir it's just that you're already jumping to the conclusion to "whatever you guys say, my western super pickups9999 is better because it's expensive and it's made by Mr. America etc." without having a thought on trying out a local pickups yet... or maybe you have tried, pero someone hear offered to test out local, pero you require they make a copy of pickups which is to you is the point of reference on a "good sounding pickups".
And I also believe that A really good gibson can beat the crap out of the best epiphone. that might be true... PERO I still believe it depends on the player man... It's all in the hands.
I'll tell you what sir, if you want us to educate us better, and take a follow on your footsteps, I suggest you take the deal to try that local pickups without furthermore requirement, as a tone critique, I think it doesnt matter if they're just too "local" for you to test it out anyway kasi nga kritiko ka ng tunog... Record your sound "local made offered here.. vs your super pickups tone... not thru phone ha, live recorded. I'm sure you have a super duper recording equipment as well. Same kind of playing, same technique, same amp, same settings, if kaya ng same guitar good. BUT do not let us know which track has the local one, which track has the super gondo pickups...
If the majority would say that the tone which came from your super pickups then I'll take my defeat to say that you really are an epic tone master. :-D
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Well, there was this guy who tried to fool the folks at The Gearpage one time. Knowing the cork-sniffing culture in there, he tried to rebadge/repaint some Joyo overdrive pedals and sold 'em for a much higher price. And then the bells and whistles in the forum about those pedals, up until some dude from the forum deconstructed the pedals and found out they were some Chinese assemblies resembling Joyos... then later on a major [gooey brown stuff] in the forum took place, with a lot of legal threats from the lawyers in the forum.
dagdag ko lang, that guy wanted to gain a HUGE PROFIT from a repainted pedal, with minor SLAP-ON "mods". big bucks for less overhead. virtually no R&D. the intention was to make quick bucks using hype, not an "experiment" in cork-sniffery like some dudes later thought in the forum.
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Sir isnt hearing thru live recorded tone to mp3 better than listening thru phone? kahit landline sir parang bitin yun e, :-(
(Who said?)
anyways...
Yes clapton is good guitar player, general audience would say that, so is other bands... kasi if they weren't they wouldn't be famous after all..
(Di ba nakilala rin si Clapton songwriting niya AT sa kanyang tone?)
My mom listened to GnR because my dead father used to be a fan of it, pero again, she cared more about the whole band playing it, not just slash alone.
(Bakit sa tingin mo hindi priority ng whole band ang tone nila?)
My point lang sir is, how can you say that "asian" in general lacks of hearing capability to say that your hearing (in this case you're asian as well) has better hearing capability than the others when it comes to tones; or Asian pickups in general ulit, sucks compared to USA made. Are you sir somewhat a part of a perfect-tone-organization, or the-science-of-perfect-tone company, or maybe some sort of award winning hearing master of perfect tones, a critique on the exact master of tones? etc... You might own like a really super duper guitars with super duper pickups. And I also know that you have a good intention of making us tone literate, pero sir it's just that you're already jumping to the conclusion to "whatever you guys say, my western super pickups9999 is better because it's expensive and it's made by Mr. America etc." without having a thought on trying out a local pickups yet... or maybe you have tried, pero someone hear offered to test out local, pero you require they make a copy of pickups which is to you is the point of reference on a "good sounding pickups".
(Madaming bingi na Asian ... Simple as that kasama na ang mother mo na hindi importante ang guitar tone. Its just the way it is. Hindi niya masyadong naririnig. Nothing wrong with that. Ano na bang pickups ang narinig mo? More than twenty years ago nagpagawa na ako ng pickup kay Mang Rudy, bulok. Hangang ngayon masasabi ko sa iyo walang local pickup na manufacturer na magaling sa daming nasubukan ko. Just bring your gear to my house and I will prove it on my gear. Ano nga ba experience mo sa pickups just for us to be clear? Its a gift I have to find out what toneful equipment is. Its that simple. Now its up to you whether to believe me and short cut your tone quest or make the mistakes and probably never find out the real toneful gear. )
And I also believe that A really good gibson can beat the crap out of the best epiphone. that might be true... PERO I still believe it depends on the player man... It's all in the hands.
(Talagang ba its all in the hands? Bakit namimili kayo ng gitara? At bakit may paborito kayong gitara? Astig pala daliri niyo parang Variax - may single coil setting, may humbucker setting, may distortion setting, may chorus setting, etc... )
I'll tell you what sir, if you want us to educate us better, and take a follow on your footsteps, I suggest you take the deal to try that local pickups without furthermore requirement, as a tone critique, I think it doesnt matter if they're just too "local" for you to test it out anyway kasi nga kritiko ka ng tunog... Record your sound "local made offered here.. vs your super pickups tone... not thru phone ha, live recorded. I'm sure you have a super duper recording equipment as well. Same kind of playing, same technique, same amp, same settings, if kaya ng same guitar good. BUT do not let us know which track has the local one, which track has the super gondo pickups...
(Tell you what... you bring a guitar with local pickups and switch natin on both guitars. Bring your guitar amp para may baseline ka. And I will use my amp para may baseline ako. Ikaw mag record dahil hindi ako nag rerecord ng gitara.)
If the majority would say that the tone which came from your super pickups then I'll take my defeat to say that you really are an epic tone master. :-D
(I don't have to be an epic tone master and I don't have to defeat you. Come over and get the tone beating of your life. LOL. But seriously, more than competition its for your own learning. I can tell kulang ka pa sa exposure sa equipment.)
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If you guys need a demo guy for the A/B recording, I'm just here :)
OT: Alex, has your custom Bruno Super 100 arrived?
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Sir isnt hearing thru live recorded tone to mp3 better than listening thru phone? kahit landline sir parang bitin yun e, :-(
a properly recorded mp3 or even youtube video (like gregor hilden's or solodallas' or greg v's videos; there's no way any guitar through any phone will ever sound that good) complete with the usual compression that happens when you upload it should sound way better than any phone, kasi you can use mics infintely better and record at a much higher bitrate than anything any phone manufacturer could stick into a device as small a phone (even one of those older landline sets).
medyo mas time consuming nga lang if that's the only way you're going to work with the luthier to tweak the sound to get what you want. record sya, send you the file, kinig ka, send your comments, record ulit sya, send you the file ulit, kinig ka ulit... (ad infinitum). baka mas convenient pa for you to fly out and rent out a place close to the luthier's for a month or so.
a phone could work, but if it were anywhere as good as an mp3 audio, Carl Verheyen would probably have triple his current session work catalog.
may telephone line pa ba na analog ngayon?
crap. i feel like i just dove headfirst into gag and everyone is laughing their asses off cuz i took that and replied with all seriousness. :lol:
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may telephone line pa ba na analog ngayon?
crap. i feel like i just dove headfirst into gag and everyone is laughing their asses off cuz i took that replied with all seriousness. :lol:
No, no. Go right ahead. The popcorn in the microwave is not yet done. :lol:
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No, no. Go right ahead. The popcorn in the microwave is not yet done. :lol:
then i'm happy to entertain you guys. :lol:
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I would never compare my skills against you sir, I never claimed I'm good at it. pero like you, I know it sounds good... ikaw nalang sir, you're the pro on tone. My claim is just skills are part of the tone produced, and superb brand doesn't have to be always the best as is.
hmmm about why we have a fav guitar? hmmmm... because it looks cool? hehehe. but hey I would love to have my own custom with my own preference and to my own liking and I'd probably tell you that it's the best I've ever heard and you won't probably agree. And by that I know I will never trade it or probably sell it, unlike brands where the "brand" matters talaga e.
I respect your opinion that branded and expensive brands matters most. Kasi like what I said I somewhat feel you. pero part where tone is a solid objective, that's where I refuse to believe. In fact natuto nga ako sainyo sir.
as of the gear I have, I have the simplest gear but, a performance quality, tone wise I say, an "okay" guitar with a good tone, "branded" I have to mention, and may class sya.. well that's for me and to those oldies who have tried it. If you'll ever try my gear, you might say crap but I'm actually confident about it.. well that's for you sir I respect that pero I can play well naman, which is another factor.. and I'm still learning. Bata pa naman ako compared to you. Way younger I believe. :drool:
Peace to you and on the thread..
btw, hindi bingi si mudra, She knows music :wave:
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Robben Ford with any guitar with his dumble amp, anu man gamitin n'ya in between wala akong paki... Yun ang mismo s'kin! Idol :razz: :lol:
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Sir firemodel55, I have to ask rin just to be fair, have you tried an expensive pickup that doesn't produce the sound you like?
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Well he would always ask me what I heard... To be honest, I am welcome to fly to his home and Kentucky to spend time with him on his gear. Besides I like phones better than mp3s recorded on you tube....
You gotta be kidding!
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what if... i decided to listen to fm55's advice and try to listen to the suhrs and the gil yarons with their boutique pickups plugged into an amp that would complement their awesomeness...
and at the end of the day, i still dont like those kind of tones? the build and playability and the feel may be night and day but what if i still dont like the tone...
would i be branded as a person who has poor hearing or even deaf? or maybe its just that... i have a different preference in tone and my brain tells me what i like or dislike?
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If you guys need a demo guy for the A/B recording, I'm just here :)
OT: Alex, has your custom Bruno Super 100 arrived?
Wala pa... Thanks for the offer for help. But really, sa live sound mas lumalabas ang gear ko.
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a properly recorded mp3 or even youtube video (like gregor hilden's or solodallas' or greg v's videos; there's no way any guitar through any phone will ever sound that good) complete with the usual compression that happens when you upload it should sound way better than any phone, kasi you can use mics infintely better and record at a much higher bitrate than anything any phone manufacturer could stick into a device as small a phone (even one of those older landline sets).
medyo mas time consuming nga lang if that's the only way you're going to work with the luthier to tweak the sound to get what you want. record sya, send you the file, kinig ka, send your comments, record ulit sya, send you the file ulit, kinig ka ulit... (ad infinitum). baka mas convenient pa for you to fly out and rent out a place close to the luthier's for a month or so.
a phone could work, but if it were anywhere as good as an mp3 audio, Carl Verheyen would probably have triple his current session work catalog.
may telephone line pa ba na analog ngayon?
crap. i feel like i just dove headfirst into gag and everyone is laughing their asses off cuz i took that and replied with all seriousness. :lol:
Between a poorly recorded mp3 and a live guitar sound thru the phone using Jim rolph's guitars and amps, I would take Jim's sound anytime. That being said, on properly recorded mp3 samples such as those belonging to greg v's videos is clearly superior to Jim Rolphs. By the way, I don't tweak pickups with Jim Rolph. I trust his ears. What he lets me here is his playing, his guitars and his amps. We don't fine tune by phone. He calls me up to get my review of his pickups on my guitar.
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Sir firemodel55, I have to ask rin just to be fair, have you tried an expensive pickup that doesn't produce the sound you like?
Yup there are expensive pickups that do NOT deliver. To be fair to those pickups, they don't sound any worse than Duncan or DiMarzio but are NOT worth the price because they don't add anything new or improve the sound. However, expensive boutique pickups that sound great really add something to the guitar sound.
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However, expensive boutique pickups that sound great really add something to the guitar sound.
within your personal list, which ones would that be sir? who are your top 5 boutique pickup makers?
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I would never compare my skills against you sir, I never claimed I'm good at it. pero like you, I know it sounds good... ikaw nalang sir, you're the pro on tone. My claim is just skills are part of the tone produced, and superb brand doesn't have to be always the best as is.
hmmm about why we have a fav guitar? hmmmm... because it looks cool? hehehe. but hey I would love to have my own custom with my own preference and to my own liking and I'd probably tell you that it's the best I've ever heard and you won't probably agree. And by that I know I will never trade it or probably sell it, unlike brands where the "brand" matters talaga e.
I respect your opinion that branded and expensive brands matters most. Kasi like what I said I somewhat feel you. pero part where tone is a solid objective, that's where I refuse to believe. In fact natuto nga ako sainyo sir.
as of the gear I have, I have the simplest gear but, a performance quality, tone wise I say, an "okay" guitar with a good tone, "branded" I have to mention, and may class sya.. well that's for me and to those oldies who have tried it. If you'll ever try my gear, you might say crap but I'm actually confident about it.. well that's for you sir I respect that pero I can play well naman, which is another factor.. and I'm still learning. Bata pa naman ako compared to you. Way younger I believe. :drool:
Peace to you and on the thread..
btw, hindi bingi si mudra, She knows music :wave:
I think thats what we have to calibrate... what sounds good to you may be just average for me. But that really means you have to come over with your gear so we can compare.
Another point we differ in is that I don't choose a favorite guitar because its cool or its specs. I choose it because of its sound and character.
I don't criticize your mom for her choice of music which I can appreciate. But I really don't think she is into rock, classic rock, metal, thrash,etc type of guitar. Naturally she does not have the ears for that type of guitar timbre.
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within your personal list, which ones would that be sir? who are your top 5 boutique pickup makers?
I have been really avoiding this question because its really dependent on your specific guitar but here goes my personal list that still does not include others that I want to try:
At this point in time:
Don Mare for Single Coil Strat Pickups
Jim Rolph for PAFs
Bareknuckles for modern humbuckers
Ron Ellis for Tele Pickups
Stephens Designs for P90s
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Yup there are expensive pickups that do NOT deliver. To be fair to those pickups, they don't sound any worse than Duncan or DiMarzio but are NOT worth the price because they don't add anything new or improve the sound.
wow..so you mean, Seymour DUncan and Dimarzios have nothing to offer and are just hype and marketing?....hehehe in my opinion... di naman siguro, Im sure madami namang satisfied customers ang brands na yan...and has improved their guitars performance..and output..and they are still being used by a lot of players..plus installed in a lot of major guitar brands guitar models....
perhaps sa super duper, mega, higher, level ng TONE SEARCHING..pwede i-junk yung popular brands na yan.....
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wow..so you mean, Seymour DUncan and Dimarzios have nothing to offer and are just hype and marketing?....hehehe in my opinion... di naman siguro, Im sure madami namang satisfied customers ang brands na yan...and has improved their guitars performance..and output..and they are still being used by a lot of players..plus installed in a lot of major guitar brands guitar models....
perhaps sa super duper, mega, higher, level ng TONE SEARCHING..pwede i-junk yung popular brands na yan.....
I think he's trying to tell us that less noteworthy boutique pickups are just on par with the better sounding mass-produced pickups and that good boutique pickups are on average still exponentially better although Duncans and DiMarzios are better off sitting in mid-end guitars or lines that have less probability of being "magical." Do I have that right, Alex?
On a side note, buti naman if your guitars have more or less "universal" pickup types like Strats, Teles, or guitars with HBs. People with Tele Deluxes, Jazzmasters, Mosrites, etc. don't often have as much of a choice. Duncan makes JM pickups na okay daw based on what people say but for Wide Ranges, other pickups in JM form factor and other irregularly shaped pickups (Fender Maverick?) choices are often limited to boutique winders who cater to your very specific needs. I wonder if the gap from an Artec to a boutique winder is the same as the gap from GFS to Curtis Novak or Jason Lollar given that the field isn't as saturated.
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I have been really avoiding this question because its really dependent on your specific guitar but here goes my personal list that still does not include others that I want to try:
At this point in time:
Don Mare for Single Coil Strat Pickups
Jim Rolph for PAFs
Bareknuckles for modern humbuckers
Ron Ellis for Tele Pickups
Stephens Designs for P90s
thank you sir. appreciate this very much especially all this info coming from you.
this time let's flip the coin to the other side..
who would be your top 5 'worst' pickup makers/companies?
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wow..so you mean, Seymour DUncan and Dimarzios have nothing to offer and are just hype and marketing?....hehehe in my opinion... di naman siguro, Im sure madami namang satisfied customers ang brands na yan...and has improved their guitars performance..and output..and they are still being used by a lot of players..plus installed in a lot of major guitar brands guitar models....
perhaps sa super duper, mega, higher, level ng TONE SEARCHING..pwede i-junk yung popular brands na yan.....
What I meant is that the worst of the boutique pickups to be fair is just as good as seymour duncan or dimarzio. Seymour Duncan and Dimarzio can improve your guitar if you are upgrading from asian and local pickups but there are other boutique brands that add more and improve your sound further.
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At this point in time:
Don Mare for Single Coil Strat Pickups
Jim Rolph for PAFs
Bareknuckles for modern humbuckers
Ron Ellis for Tele Pickups
Stephens Designs for P90s
I'm really curious on Jim Rolph's pickups, I'd love to try those one of these days. I'm still new on the boutique pickup world and have yet to try more. So far, I have a Sheptone Custom PAF's and a WCR Godwood set, and I have to say that they are definitely better sounding compared to SD's or DiMarzio.
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thank you sir. appreciate this very much especially all this info coming from you.
this time let's flip the coin to the other side..
who would be your top 5 'worst' pickup makers/companies?
I would rather not say baka maraming mapikon....
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I would rather not say baka maraming mapikon....
but we need to learn..and sometimes it's the hard way (the brutal truth in this case) that does it best..plus wasn't it your intention to help improve the 'consciousness' of filipino musicians in regards to tone? that's why you started this thread to help right?
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Just a reminder, guys: boutique doesn't necessarily mean uber expensive every single time. For example, D. Allen pickups are really affordable and they sound great. I bought a Cheetah set for my Suhr Classic T for $150 and took out the stock Suhr Classic T neck/bridge pickups. The Cheetah set sounds better, in my opinion. Dynamic, less noisy and sounds better with OD/distortion.
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Can anyone comment on BGPups? They get some rave reviews and aren't as expensive...
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but we need to learn..and sometimes it's the hard way (the brutal truth in this case) that does it best..plus wasn't it your intention to help improve the 'consciousness' of filipino musicians in regards to tone? that's why you started this thread to help right?
I think I already identified some great pickups and Ian even provided a more affordable alternative. Better to focus on what sounds great because it solves problems rather than focus on those that are not.
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thank you sir. appreciate this very much especially all this info coming from you.
this time let's flip the coin to the other side..
who would be your top 5 'worst' pickup makers/companies?
i'll have a go:
1) whoever makes pickups for RJ (the phrase "plastic sounding" comes to mind)
2) whoever makes those pickups that come stock on chinese ibbys (not the V7 and its series-mates)
3) whoever makes those pickups that used to come stock on Epis (between '99 to right about the time they moved most production from korea), the 57CH and HOTCH stickered ones
4) whoever fender uses to wind the stock MIM standard pickups
5) but those are almost forgiveable kasi they're in relatively cheap guitars but for a company that makes such expensive guitars to put them in, Gibson's 490R and 496R are pretty blah sounding neck pickups (they do ok in the bridge though).
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wow..so you mean, Seymour DUncan and Dimarzios have nothing to offer and are just hype and marketing?....hehehe in my opinion... di naman siguro, Im sure madami namang satisfied customers ang brands na yan...and has improved their guitars performance..and output..and they are still being used by a lot of players..plus installed in a lot of major guitar brands guitar models....
perhaps sa super duper, mega, higher, level ng TONE SEARCHING..pwede i-junk yung popular brands na yan.....
onga mejo naguluhan ako, as to dimarzios/SD pups are compared to worse..
well sir, given by your high level of judgement, and since there are those pickups that don't promise anything,, if you would consider dimarzios/SD boutique pickups, would you consider them as an entry level to your preferred tone/"magandang" tone? or for you sir they're just normal pickups that will give normal roar or give life to let's say a life less guitar? hehehe
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Just a reminder, guys: boutique doesn't necessarily mean uber expensive every single time. For example, D. Allen pickups are really affordable and they sound great. I bought a Cheetah set for my Suhr Classic T for $150 and took out the stock Suhr Classic T neck/bridge pickups. The Cheetah set sounds better, in my opinion. Dynamic, less noisy and sounds better with OD/distortion.
The offset guitar community has a member who winds pickups under the name Chnl.One, He specializes in Jaguar and Jazzmaster pickups. So far maganda ang feedback sa kanya ng mga naka vintage Jag and JM. It's $120 a set ata from him.
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onga mejo naguluhan ako, as to dimarzios/SD pups are compared to worse..
well sir, given by your high level of judgement, and since there are those pickups that don't promise anything,, if you would consider dimarzios/SD boutique pickups, would you consider them as an entry level to your preferred tone/"magandang" tone? or for you sir they're just normal pickups that will give normal roar or give life to let's say a life less guitar? hehehe
As I said before, if you have an average guitar in terms of sound & character, pwede na ang seymour duncan, EMG or DiMarzio. No point spending on more expensive pickups if the guitar wood is average.
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Can anyone comment on BGPups? They get some rave reviews and aren't as expensive...
Dodjie, I'm gonna try them out by early next year. I want to experiment on new pickups. Sabay ka sa order?
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I think I already identified some great pickups and Ian even provided a more affordable alternative. Better to focus on what sounds great because it solves problems rather than focus on those that are not.
got balls?
i'll start here's my list of pickups to avoid:
1. rj pickups
2. gfs pickups
3. artec pickups
4. stock mim standard pickups
5. cheap ceramic china made pickups
disclaimer: these just didn't do it for me. but what doesn't work with me doesn't mean it won't work within your set up. kanya kanya lang talaga pag dating sa taste
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Just a reminder, guys: boutique doesn't necessarily mean uber expensive every single time. For example, D. Allen pickups are really affordable and they sound great. I bought a Cheetah set for my Suhr Classic T for $150 and took out the stock Suhr Classic T neck/bridge pickups. The Cheetah set sounds better, in my opinion. Dynamic, less noisy and sounds better with OD/distortion.
+1
wilde pickups fall into that category din. better than anything from dimarzio or duncan and cheaper than most of the stuff those 2 companies offer too.
smits pickups are relatively inexpensive too and give you a lot of options pagdating sa combos you can get between winds and magnets.
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i'll have a go:
1) whoever makes pickups for RJ (the phrase "plastic sounding" comes to mind)
2) whoever makes those pickups that come stock on chinese ibbys (not the V7 and its series-mates)
3) whoever makes those pickups that used to come stock on Epis (between '99 to right about the time they moved most production from korea), the 57CH and HOTCH stickered ones
4) whoever fender uses to wind the stock MIM standard pickups
5) but those are almost forgiveable kasi they're in relatively cheap guitars but for a company that makes such expensive guitars to put them in, Gibson's 490R and 496R are pretty blah sounding neck pickups (they do ok in the bridge though).
you got balls sir, thanks for sharing.
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Just a reminder, guys: boutique doesn't necessarily mean uber expensive every single time. For example, D. Allen pickups are really affordable and they sound great. I bought a Cheetah set for my Suhr Classic T for $150 and took out the stock Suhr Classic T neck/bridge pickups. The Cheetah set sounds better, in my opinion. Dynamic, less noisy and sounds better with OD/distortion.
So it boils down to two categories: good sounding and bad sounding pickups.. And who determines which is which? The players ear..
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So it boils down to two categories: good sounding and bad sounding pickups.. And who determines which is which? The players ear..
There are certain traits in pickups that are generally considered to be desirable and there are times when the methods in pickup construction that will allow for these traits to surface aren't very well-known. The pickup builders who know what those traits are and how they'll come out in their products mostly happen to be in the small-shop (i.e. boutique) industry. Due to this, price point isn't supposed to be the only focus; we should prioritize the builders' knowledge on pickups and how they interact with the other elements of guitars.
The great boutique pickup builders who slap high price tags on their products just happen to know how much their knowledge and experience are worth.
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There are certain traits in pickups that are generally considered to be desirable and there are times when the methods in pickup construction that will allow for these traits to surface aren't very well-known. The pickup builders who know what those traits are and how they'll come out in their products mostly happen to be in the small-shop (i.e. boutique) industry. Due to this, price point isn't supposed to be the only focus; we should prioritize the builders' knowledge on pickups and how they interact with the other elements of guitars.
The great boutique pickup builders who slap high price tags on their products just happen to know how much their knowledge and experience are worth.
well for me, there are some traits of those boutique things that i dont like.. though desirable for others..
i remember complaining about something in my guitar that does harmonics.. did go to arie for him to check it out, and says that to others its desirable.. wala na raw ako magagawa kasi character na ng guitar ko yun..well i just said to myself that i wanna get rid of it if possible..
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basta ako okay na ako sa rj ko.good na yun.
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well for me, there are some traits of those boutique things that i dont like.. though desirable for others..
i remember complaining about something in my guitar that does harmonics.. did go to arie for him to check it out, and says that to others its desirable.. wala na raw ako magagawa kasi character na ng guitar ko yun..well i just said to myself that i wanna get rid of it if possible..
I don't know about you, but I only have six things that I check whenever I test a pickup: clarity, EQ/volume balance, harmonic response, dynamics, noise suppression and overall voicing. They're the usual characteristics that knowledgeable guitarists generally give more importance to. Application would then be the next consideration. Just like mass produced brands, boutique pickup builders also have different pickup models for different applications, but they only do it better on the average. For example, for low gain 60s Strat voicing, Fender 57/62 single coils will never match up favorably against Bare Knuckle Mother's Milk, Suhr/JS Technologies V60LP or Klein 60s sets.
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+1
wilde pickups fall into that category din. better than anything from dimarzio or duncan and cheaper than most of the stuff those 2 companies offer too.
smits pickups are relatively inexpensive too and give you a lot of options pagdating sa combos you can get between winds and magnets.
+1 for Wilde pickups. For tele fans, you might want to check out Cavalier pickups by Rob Distefano of Frettech.com. He makes great tele and strat pickups. The tele pickups go for $60 each, so that's $120 for a set. I have the Lion bridge (hotterwound 50s style pickup) in the bridge position of my tele. Spanky, beefy twang. Pairs up nicely with the Twang King.
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I think nathanmanansala should be reprimanded for making this thread serious again.
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I apologize for being slow on the uptake. next time, please use html tags like this:
[justfeedingthetroll]talaga dude? how'd it go?[/justfeedingthetroll]
or let me in on the gag right away. :lol:
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+1
wilde pickups fall into that category din. better than anything from dimarzio or duncan and cheaper than most of the stuff those 2 companies offer too.
smits pickups are relatively inexpensive too and give you a lot of options pagdating sa combos you can get between winds and magnets.
Wilde is wild :)
They aren't considered "traditional", but I love the high fidelity of Bill's pick ups, and his principles on creating pick ups that do not focus on messing with frequencies that filter wood's inherent tone.
It's an acquired taste.
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i'll have a go:
1) whoever makes pickups for RJ (the phrase "plastic sounding" comes to mind)
2) whoever makes those pickups that come stock on chinese ibbys (not the V7 and its series-mates)
3) whoever makes those pickups that used to come stock on Epis (between '99 to right about the time they moved most production from korea), the 57CH and HOTCH stickered ones
4) whoever fender uses to wind the stock MIM standard pickups
5) but those are almost forgiveable kasi they're in relatively cheap guitars but for a company that makes such expensive guitars to put them in, Gibson's 490R and 496R are pretty blah sounding neck pickups (they do ok in the bridge though).
+1 ako dito
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What he lets me here is his playing, his guitars and his amps. We don't fine tune by phone. He calls me up to get my review of his pickups on my guitar.
Oh, you said kasi before na he "tests" your hearing through the phone for more than an hour or so and I found that baffling, coming from a tone guy such as you.
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i'll have a go:
1) whoever makes pickups for RJ (the phrase "plastic sounding" comes to mind)
2) whoever makes those pickups that come stock on chinese ibbys (not the V7 and its series-mates)
3) whoever makes those pickups that used to come stock on Epis (between '99 to right about the time they moved most production from korea), the 57CH and HOTCH stickered ones
4) whoever fender uses to wind the stock MIM standard pickups
5) but those are almost forgiveable kasi they're in relatively cheap guitars but for a company that makes such expensive guitars to put them in, Gibson's 490R and 496R are pretty blah sounding neck pickups (they do ok in the bridge though).
This! First hand experience. Tunog utot. Hahaha.
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This! First hand experience. Tunog utot. Hahaha.
Hahahahaha. Pretty accurate description, actually.
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Same thing here with MIM strats. The pickup during its first month sounded fine. For reasons I can't put my finger on, the sound becomes very very dull after. Despite having Twin Reverbs and Bassman as amps, the guitar still cannot cut through.
I then I bought a new set while I was in Singapore. The clarity was there but it distorts too easily.
I thin bought a Fender 57/62 strat set. Not at par wit Sure and Bare Knuckles, but at least I don't have my nagging complaints anymore.
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tried out a few strats in perfect pitch last night. they had in stock 3 models, non-MIA, hehe. first model was the classic 50's MIM strat, it's the more premium model from the MIM line. the pickups are vintage-style alnico pickups. they sounded good, much like what i would typically expect from a strat.
next, i tried a MIM standard with standard single coil pickups. it was louder than the vintage-style alnico pickups pero, as one forumer stated, tunog utot, haha! wala yung single coil character na hanap ko. sa totoo lang, i couldn't stand playing it, hehe. even the 2 & 4 positions sucked, hehe.
then last, out of frustration, i tried a squier classic vibe strat with duncan designed pickups. to my surprise, they sounded better than the MIM standard, hehe. and the squier was half the price of the MIM standard.
i used the same amp the whole time, same settings and volume.
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^^
if i recall correctly, the classic vibe series uses tonerider pickups. its the vintage modified series that uses duncan designed.
if what you tesed was the vintage modified, then the higher tier classic vibes should sound even better.
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will use Ken Armstrong Hand-wired pickups on my Gilead build.
http://www.kentarmstrong.sk/#
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I just want to share my not-so-extensive-and-average-guitarist experience with both asian and U.S. pickups on this topic even though I virtually don't know anything about the process or materials in making a guitar pickup. I have 3 electric guitars and have used 4 kinds of pickups. 3 of them are stock pickups and 1 after market Seymour Duncan SH-4. My guitars/pickups may be not worth mentioning for some but for me they are:
1) Raon guitar with Generic Raon pickups, made of $%#& wood (LP shape). The owner of a local recording studio in our neighborhood back then described the pickups as "fake humbuckers" because apparently inside the pickup cover is just a single coil and the cover was attached to make it look like a covered humbucker. It was "okay" for me. Namimili siya ng amp. Minsan maganda minsan hindi, but I get by with some amp simulation sa zoom g1x ko noon. At pag heavy distorted ang gusto mong tone maingay at mafeedback, hindi ko magamit. My main problem during this time was feedback, I even tried putting foams inside the cavities of the guitar. From clean to crunchy medyo maganda na. I played mostly RHCP and to my ears I can get it with the right amp. (Of course not really nail it we all know that's difficult not to mention possibly impossible, but nakakaenjoy naman pakinggan hindi yung tatamarin ka nang maggitara kasi ampanget talaga)
2)Same Raon guitar with SH-4 pickups. It was really an improvement. Like someone said here, somehow "it gave life to a lifeless guitar". The feedback problem was dealt with and I can use much more distorted settings. (This time I don't use multieffects anymore with amp modelling, just a dirt pedal)
3)Greco EG700, 1978. After my raon guitar was rendered useless, (not the electronics, the guitar itself because it was really made of $^&* wood), I acquired this Greco guitar with its stock pickups (U2000. I think it is right to assume that this is also MIJ same with the guitar, hence asian.). I originally planned immediately replacing the stock pickups with the SH-4. But after asking advices from some people, I decided leave it as is. I was beginning to play blues at this time and until now (it's been 2 years) I really like what I'm getting out of this guitar with all stock electronics. The SH-4 was really good even though I've used it with an averagely crappy guitar. I'm not planning to replace this guitar's stock pickups simply because I like how I sound with this and it's great for what I use it for.
4)Yamaha SG-200 with stock pickups (Either Made in Korea, China, or Taiwan I forgot, but it's just either of the those 3). This guitar sounds brighter than the greco but warmer than the raon made. Even though the pickups are humbuckers, (I've read in some sites that some people swear to only use single coils for funk, esp. rhcp style, because we all know it, from hillel to josh, they all mainly use strats) I feel good using this guitar for funk because of how it sounds and because of the feel of its neck. Mas nakakapagexperiment rin ako dito kesa sa greco LP ko parang dedicated lang ang sound niya.
Sorry if I'm off topic, napa-share lang haha. One should not base their option on the makers alone. Dapat ma-consider din ang guitar na paggagamitan at kung swak sa gusto mong makuha. Baka naman hindi pickup ang problema.
Bottom line of my lengthy narrative is that my asian pickups deserve more than my attention.
Palagay ko sa ibang MIM guitars sinasadya na mas mababa ang quality ng pickups kesa sa "higher end" models (Marketing strategy maybe?) but if it gets the sound in your head then why not. Maybe I'll try Mang Max's pickups when I make my project guitar. :)
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I just want to share my not-so-extensive-and-average-guitarist experience with both asian and U.S. pickups on this topic even though I virtually don't know anything about the process or materials in making a guitar pickup. I have 3 electric guitars and have used 4 kinds of pickups. 3 of them are stock pickups and 1 after market Seymour Duncan SH-4. My guitars/pickups may be not worth mentioning for some but for me they are:
1) Raon guitar with Generic Raon pickups, made of $%#& wood (LP shape). The owner of a local recording studio in our neighborhood back then described the pickups as "fake humbuckers" because apparently inside the pickup cover is just a single coil and the cover was attached to make it look like a covered humbucker. It was "okay" for me. Namimili siya ng amp. Minsan maganda minsan hindi, but I get by with some amp simulation sa zoom g1x ko noon. At pag heavy distorted ang gusto mong tone maingay at mafeedback, hindi ko magamit. My main problem during this time was feedback, I even tried putting foams inside the cavities of the guitar. From clean to crunchy medyo maganda na. I played mostly RHCP and to my ears I can get it with the right amp. (Of course not really nail it we all know that's difficult not to mention possibly impossible, but nakakaenjoy naman pakinggan hindi yung tatamarin ka nang maggitara kasi ampanget talaga)
2)Same Raon guitar with SH-4 pickups. It was really an improvement. Like someone said here, somehow "it gave life to a lifeless guitar". The feedback problem was dealt with and I can use much more distorted settings. (This time I don't use multieffects anymore with amp modelling, just a dirt pedal)
3)Greco EG700, 1978. After my raon guitar was rendered useless, (not the electronics, the guitar itself because it was really made of $^&* wood), I acquired this Greco guitar with its stock pickups (U2000. I think it is right to assume that this is also MIJ same with the guitar, hence asian.). I originally planned immediately replacing the stock pickups with the SH-4. But after asking advices from some people, I decided leave it as is. I was beginning to play blues at this time and until now (it's been 2 years) I really like what I'm getting out of this guitar with all stock electronics. The SH-4 was really good even though I've used it with an averagely crappy guitar. I'm not planning to replace this guitar's stock pickups simply because I like how I sound with this and it's great for what I use it for.
4)Yamaha SG-200 with stock pickups (Either Made in Korea, China, or Taiwan I forgot, but it's just either of the those 3). This guitar sounds brighter than the greco but warmer than the raon made. Even though the pickups are humbuckers, (I've read in some sites that some people swear to only use single coils for funk, esp. rhcp style, because we all know it, from hillel to josh, they all mainly use strats) I feel good using this guitar for funk because of how it sounds and because of the feel of its neck. Mas nakakapagexperiment rin ako dito kesa sa greco LP ko parang dedicated lang ang sound niya.
Sorry if I'm off topic, napa-share lang haha. One should not base their option on the makers alone. Dapat ma-consider din ang guitar na paggagamitan at kung swak sa gusto mong makuha. Baka naman hindi pickup ang problema.
Bottom line of my lengthy narrative is that my asian pickups deserve more than my attention.
Palagay ko sa ibang MIM guitars sinasadya na mas mababa ang quality ng pickups kesa sa "higher end" models (Marketing strategy maybe?) but if it gets the sound in your head then why not. Maybe I'll try Mang Max's pickups when I make my project guitar. :)
When I started this thread to give an opinon, I had used guitars with great sounding wood. So, consider my pickup opinion as that being a given. To test, you can try asking mang max to copy a gibson classic 57, which is a mundane average standard, and check out if his copy sounds like it.
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When I started this thread to give an opinon, I had used guitars with great sounding wood. So, consider my pickup opinion as that being a given. To test, you can try asking mang max to copy a gibson classic 57, which is a mundane average standard, and check out if his copy sounds like it.
Well I have also used guitars with great sounding wood (Made in US, Asia, Mexico). But what I've only shared are the ones that I've owned. I'm not gonna argue here on which is the best. I just wanted to say that the asian pickups that I've used, even though stock ones, are "attention-deserving" pickups.
I think for those planning to buy a decent asian guitar, they are worth a try especially for those who's on a tight budget and simply can't afford immediately upgrading for the best pickups he/she has heard of.
:-D
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Well I have also used guitars with great sounding wood (Made in US, Asia, Mexico). But what I've only shared are the ones that I've owned. I'm not gonna argue here on which is the best. I just wanted to say that the asian pickups that I've used, even though stock ones, are "attention-deserving" pickups.
I think for those planning to buy a decent asian guitar, they are worth a try especially for those who's on a tight budget and simply can't afford immediately upgrading for the best pickups he/she has heard of.
:-D
Good for you then. I strongly suggest you try the more expensive pickups on guitars that truly deserve it. Based on my observation, kulang ka pa sa exposure sa magagandang pickups. Just my two cents. Siguro when you upgrade to better guitars when the opportunity and income presents itself.
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Good for you then. I strongly suggest you try the more expensive pickups on guitars that truly deserve it. Based on my observation, kulang ka pa sa exposure sa magagandang pickups. Just my two cents. Siguro when you upgrade to better guitars when the opportunity and income presents itself.
Oo sir. I would certainly do that. hehe. Actually yung 57 nga ang pickups ng LP replica ko before ko siya bilhin, binalik ng dating owner yung stock pickups nung binili ko na. haha guess that says a lot na hindi niya yun pinakawalan. thanks!
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Permiso lang sa pagnecro ng thread.
...uuups. :)
Curious lang ako kung meron nang improvements sa local/Asian manufacturing methods ngayon.
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^what's the problem necroing a relevant and informative (not debatable :lol:) thread?
anyway, pickups - to me - are significant tone changers next to strings. im interested in hearing from those who have installed Mang Max's noiseless single coils. IME some guitars ive tested fitted with SDs and Dimarzios did not floor me, on the amps na ginamit ko, at least. not that im expecting those to floor me anyway. nabitin lang siguro ako sa narinig ko. also played some chinese cheapies and liked some of them. so... :shrug:
pickup manufacturing methods will and have improved pa lalo over time. im curious.
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Love to hear Mr. Alex's response if he finds improvement to local/Asian pick-ups nowadays..
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An interesting video to watch, after reading the gear/hands tone debate in the previous posts:
All in the hands? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJKP_uq6His)
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For non-traditional design, Joel's Neo pickups started shipping a few months ago to foreign guitar builders.
http://www.cycfi.com/ (http://www.cycfi.com/)
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^^i opine mas makikita ang difference sa tone isa ibang styles of music and less on "metal" music.
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all i can say is....
WALA YAN SA PANA, NASA INDIAN YAN!
:LOL:
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all i can say is....
WALA YAN SA PANA, NASA INDIAN YAN!
:LOL:
KASO ANG INDIAN NAMIMILI RIN NG PANA
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Love to hear Mr. Alex's response if he finds improvement to local/Asian pick-ups nowadays..
Naku... controversy. Quite the opposite, its still American Pickups that occupy my time.
My beef with the local builders (still):
1. They don't know what good pickups sound like
2. They don't themselves own good sounding pickups
3. They don't own great sounding tube amps that define what pickups should sound like
That being said, I am waiting for my Stephen's Designs PAF HD to finish its break in period. At around US$800 a pair, I feel its beats Tom Holmes by a wide margin and its really close to my great sounding PAFs. So far, I can say its worth the dough.
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My beef with the local builders (still):
2. They don't themselves own good sounding pickups
3. They don't own great sounding tube amps that define what pickups should sound like
i'd have to agree with this one. part na yan ng study --- "what is my pickups worth in the hands of real professionals / players?"
if someone with, say a 60s guitar, that's plugged to a sweet sounding dumble, appreciate it? something like that. pero siguro may market din yun but not as big or wide as others
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Can u name a few?
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Just a point of clarification:
1. If your current pickup is busted, and your budget can only afford you local or Asian Pickups; to get that guitar in working condition - go ahead and buy those pickups.
2. If your current pickups are local or Asian; AND if you have some extra money but not enough to buy a new guitar - go ahead try Seymour Duncan, EMG, DiMarzios and enjoy the various flavors.
3. If your current pickups are Seymour Duncan, EMG, DiMarzio AND you have extra income AND feel that you have a guitar with HIYAW - go ahead try boutique pickups with my personal favorites being Bareknuckles (I still hold the distinction of being the first Filipino to ever use Bareknuckle), Jim Rolphs (I think am still the First Filipino to order from Jim), Stephens Design (come to think of it also the first Filipino to order from Dave Stephens) for humbuckers. Ron Ellis and Don Mare for Single Coils. Kinman for noiseless single coils (I also hold the distinction of being the first Filipino to ever order Kinman -- ask Chris Kinman).
4. If you have a really specially EXCEPTIONAL guitar AND chance upon a great sounding set of PAFs AND are really guitar crazy AND have the equipment to appreciate such AND are as skeptical about pickups as I am AND love distortion and overdrive, go get a great set of PAFs.
But seriously, over time it really becomes frustrating changing and upgrading pickups. Parang it feels like you are trying to keep up with the Joneses. Sometimes some pickup upgrades are not really that big a deal and sometimes it can sound worse because it did not match a guitar. BUT -- the big BUTT I can assure you is that if I compared my pickups now with what I was using ten years ago -- DiMarzio, Duncans and EMGs -- I am confident to say that my pickups NOW are so much better sounding and performing by a large margin. And here is the irony --- a specific PAF set made in 1959 still rules them all. heh heh.
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KASO ANG INDIAN NAMIMILI RIN NG PANA
kaso yung papanain nya hinde nya naman kayang tamaan...parang sa gig not everybody can appreciate or please the sound coming right out from the guitar (esp pickup)
btw alex what can you say about the creamy pickups plan to purchase one for my tele?
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But seriously, over time it really becomes frustrating changing and upgrading pickups. Parang it feels like you are trying to keep up with the Joneses. Sometimes some pickup upgrades are not really that big a deal and sometimes it can sound worse because it did not match a guitar. BUT -- the big BUTT I can assure you is that if I compared my pickups now with what I was using ten years ago -- DiMarzio, Duncans and EMGs -- I am confident to say that my pickups NOW are so much better sounding and performing by a large margin. And here is the irony --- a specific PAF set made in 1959 still rules them all. heh heh.
For the red statement, I completely agree. Pickups will definitely change the sound (plugged), but it's not always considered an upgrade.
Interesting last sentence sir. When you said that "a specific PAF set made in 1959 still rules them all", are you talking about all pickups you've tried in general (low output, medium, high output, single coils, p90s, etc)?
Or just the 59 PAFs versus other PAF copies?
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parang sa gig not everybody can appreciate or please the sound coming right out from the guitar (esp pickup)
hindi mapapansin ng iba yung tunog mo, pero mapapansin nila yung sarap na nararamdaman mo. hehehe
BTT: so ibig sabihin, may mga "tier" ang quality ng pickups? as fm55 said
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para sakin ang mga brand na yan, pag nandun ka na or tumawid ka na sa level ng decent/reliable brands, it's a matter of taste na lang.
well unless of course na music for you is "objective".
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para sakin ang mga brand na yan, pag nandun ka na or tumawid ka na sa level ng decent/reliable brands, it's a matter of taste na lang.
well unless of course na music for you is "objective".
Not really, the NEW decent for me is boutique. I tried going back to Duncans, DiMarzios and EMGs. Wala. I get so irritated with their poor performance that I had to upgrade to bareknuckles.
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For the red statement, I completely agree. Pickups will definitely change the sound (plugged), but it's not always considered an upgrade.
Interesting last sentence sir. When you said that "a specific PAF set made in 1959 still rules them all", are you talking about all pickups you've tried in general (low output, medium, high output, single coils, p90s, etc)?
Or just the 59 PAFs versus other PAF copies?
59 PAF versus all other pickups... for some reason a great sounding PAF does all the genres in spades.
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59 PAF versus all other pickups... for some reason a great sounding PAF does all the genres in spades.
That's really interesting. :-)
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59 PAF versus all other pickups... for some reason a great sounding PAF does all the genres in spades.
But won't it squeal with high gain?
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59 PAF versus all other pickups... for some reason a great sounding PAF does all the genres in spades.
OT lang, Somehow I can't imagine PAFs doing the classic country twang, maybe modern country style, but not twang.
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But won't it squeal with high gain?
For my specific PAF, as long as you don't direct it at the speaker - it loves high gain. To my shock, this specific PAF set seems to take on the character of my high gain amps and make each high gain amp more unique in voicing.
Of course you can force it to feedback but its so hard for it to generate the overwhelming feedback we are used to. It functions more like an Ebow when you attempt to obtain feedback. Really strange but I guess that's the magic of a great PAF set.
By the way, I rarely use pedals in front of my amps. So, I never actually used the PAF with an overdrive/distortion pedal going into the lead channel of a high gain amp. So, it might feedback. I go straight into the amp and use the high gain channel.
To my ears, distortion and overdrive sounds better without pedals -- thicker, more dynamic and richer without fizziness -- not to mention noise (but this requires a guitar with hiyaw and a great set of pickups).
Rich sounding guitars when they interact with great sounding high gain amps do not need as much gain because they are so full of harmonics that too much distortion just ruins the sound. Rather, you set at the correct gain and turn up the master to enable the amp to engulf/surround the audience.
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OT lang, Somehow I can't imagine PAFs doing the classic country twang, maybe modern country style, but not twang.
Take my answer with a grain of salt, on this specific PAF set -- the mids are voiced so nice that it can do some country twang on a clean/slightly pushed Gibson sound. If you ask the oldies -- not the old musikeros here in the Philippines but abroad, the old teles and old Les Pauls did at times have a common sound.
I also did not believe that myself but with a little tweaking on the komet , Bruno super overdrive or the vox acd30 does get it into country territory.
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If you ask the oldies -- not the old musikeros here in the Philippines but abroad, the old teles and old Les Pauls did at times have a common sound.
i've met a few in Pinas who shares the same POV. but many can't believe. i believe old les pauls and teles are like Coke and Pepsi -- a little ice and they taste the same. :-D