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The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: 24242009 on February 26, 2013, 11:22:51 AM
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Dear Sir/Mam/Guitar experts
Ive just recieved an acoustic guitar an Ibanez artwood 250, but have no idea on how to lower the action. :| It was a gift from a relative, your opinions will help a lot, thanks in advance :wave:
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you can bring it to a luthier near you. san ka ba nakatira? basically, ang pag baba ng action, depends eh. if the saddle is a bit high, minsan nililiha. or minsan naman, tighten lang ang truss rod. pero mas maganda dalhin sa luthier syempre. gives you peace of mind. :)
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May built in truss rod ba? Check mo muna if meron, kung wala, bring it to your nearest known guitar luthier and watch him to do it, for you to learn too
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yes sir, mayroon so loob ng sound hole ( dulo ng fretboard) meron din kasing kasamang wrench ito (allen wrench, i think) Sa south area ako nakatira sir. :-D
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South ka pala eh. Dalhin mo na lang kay Mike Sison sa Sucat. A truss rod is not something you'd wanna mess with if you don't have experience. Just my two cents.
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dalhin mo kay micsis :)
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South ka pala eh. Dalhin mo na lang kay Mike Sison sa Sucat. A truss rod is not something you'd wanna mess with if you don't have experience. Just my two cents.
+100
I also need a set up for my Takamine. Just went to micsis last saturday to have it done. go and visit his shop para ma check nya guitar mo bro. :mrgreen:
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Good to know it has a trussrod, meron din kasi ibang acoustic na wala, don't do it yourself if you're not comfortable
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thanks for the advices sirs/mesdammes
Yes I will bring it to Mike Sison, but right now I want to play it so Ill try to do it myself. Pero kung hindi ako contento sa nagawa ko, ill pay Mike a visit. Mahal ba maglower ng action / set up ng acoustic? magkano ang inaabot ng ganito?
My tita who gave me this just said to me "turn clockwise to tighten , counter clockwise to loosen". sinubukan kong clockwise pero hindi ko sigurado kung tumaas ba ito o bumaba, mahigpit ang truss rod, needs some force to turn, Im just afraid to mess up, thats why I ask for advices.
sir pag tighten ba? yun yung lower action?
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^^
You adjust the truss rod (tighten or loosen) to adjust the neck relief or straightness of the neck. If a bowed neck is the culprit for a high action, tightening the truss rod will make the neck straighter. Thus, parang bababa konti yung action along the middle area. Secondary effect lang yung action. Neck relief talaga ang purpose ng truss rod. Adjust it lang kung kailangan.
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+100
I also need a set up for my Takamine. Just went to micsis last saturday to have it done. go and visit his shop para ma check nya guitar mo bro. :mrgreen:
Ikaw pala yun dude! Ganda ng Takamine mo! :-D
thanks for the advices sirs/mesdammes
Yes I will bring it to Mike Sison, but right now I want to play it so Ill try to do it myself. Pero kung hindi ako contento sa nagawa ko, ill pay Mike a visit. Mahal ba maglower ng action / set up ng acoustic? magkano ang inaabot ng ganito?
My tita who gave me this just said to me "turn clockwise to tighten , counter clockwise to loosen". sinubukan kong clockwise pero hindi ko sigurado kung tumaas ba ito o bumaba, mahigpit ang truss rod, needs some force to turn, Im just afraid to mess up, thats why I ask for advices.
sir pag tighten ba? yun yung lower action?
Yung pag adjust ng truss rod isn't exactly for lowering the action. It's to straighten the neck. Last time na nagpa setup ako kay Sir Mike, mga 600 lang yata inabot. Pero depende ata yun sa gagawin. You can probably do it yourself, all you need is sandpaper para ishave yung ilalim ng saddle. Kung plastic lang yung saddle, madali lang isand yun. Kung bone or Tusq, sasakit ang kamay mo hehe. Hmmm...kung tama yung specs ng acoustic mo na nababasa ko sa net, bone nga yung saddle niyan. Kung matiyaga ka, just shave the saddle a bit.
Pero kung gusto mo na rin ipa-set up ng maayos, best to go to Sir Mike's. :-D
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thanks sir/mam
yes i might pay Mike Sison a visit, but for now Ill try to lower it a bit, so i can play my guitar. Sanding is out of the my league, I cant sand it because I might sand it badly and will probably mess up, might leave it to Mike, i it needs sanding
So if I adjust the truss rod, clockwise to tighten but in what position? :| the head of the guitar facing me or the bottom the the guitar?
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Good to know it has a trussrod, meron din kasi ibang acoustic na wala, don't do it yourself if you're not comfortable
I'm my opinion, most guitars have truss rod. The question lies if it's an adjustable truss rod or not.
Old acoustic guitars have T-bar type truss rod inside but it's fix. Di adjustable. IMHO. :)
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My only acoustic is a cheap cebu acoustic guitar na pasalubong lang sakin walang truss rod, fixed na kaso masyado mataas action para sakin kaya bibihira ko gamitin
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Dear Sir/Mam/Guitar experts
Ive just recieved an acoustic guitar an Ibanez artwood 250, but have no idea on how to lower the action. :| It was a gift from a relative, your opinions will help a lot, thanks in advance :wave:
Sir, check mo muna yung bridge saddle mo bago mo galawin yung truss rod. Usually ang Ibanez Artwood Acoustic may shim yan, minsan dalawa pa. Take off the strings and remove the white plastic looking thing dun sa bridge.
Pag wala, try getting a new saddle part na mas mababa. Or sand mo yung saddle sa baba kung matapang ka :-P
Of course bago mo gawin lahat yan check mo yung neck relief. Additionally check mo rin kung stock pa rin yung string gauges kasi baka napalitan ng ibang gauge at tension kaya tumaas yung action. :-D
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My only acoustic is a cheap cebu acoustic guitar na pasalubong lang sakin walang truss rod, fixed na kaso masyado mataas action para sakin kaya bibihira ko gamitin
May truss rod siguro yan sir. Naka embed sa loob ng neck. What brand exactly is that?
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I have an old Yamaha FG200D na mataas ang action.. what I did was a combination of those that was said here..
hindi ko basta basta ginalaw muna yung truss rod because it will be the easiest way to lower the action.. pero I love to do solos in my acoustic which I wont be able to do pag ginalaw ko yung truss rod because it will result to "fret-buzz" as the strings will be already too close to the fret wires paglampas ng 12th fret..
so what I did is tinanggal ko yung saddle.. at inis-is ko sa sand paper para bumaba.. pero I didnt realize na mababa na pala sya so nung ibinalik ko sa bridge eh tumatama na yung strings sa bridge.. so tinanggal ko ulit at yung bridge naman ang kiniskis ko ng sand paper para bumaba/numipis.. matagal tagal na trabaho pero worth it.. trial and error yun, tiningnan ko yung point kung saan mataas na ulit yung saddle nya at di na tatama yung strings sa bridge..
after that tsaka ko ginalaw yung truss rod tsaka nut..
presto.. low action :-D
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May truss rod siguro yan sir. Naka embed sa loob ng neck. What brand exactly is that?
I didn't check, my guitar has no brand, it is only a pasalubong go to guitar, matagal na siya wala sakin, that was around 2005
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Sir May ibanez din ako na acoustic tapos masyadong mataas yung action kaya sinubukan kong i DIY....nasira ko yung intonation nung inadjust ko yung truss rod tapos nung niliha ko yung saddle nawalang yung brilliance at nabawasan ng resonance yung gitara... :( I suggest dalin niyo na lang po sa luthier. :wink:
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Rule of thumb, don't use the truss rod to lower the action. Only adjust the trauss rod pag hindi straight ang neck, other wise for the acoustic you need to sand off some mass at the saddle.
To properly do this, remove the saddle, use a pencil to mark off the mass you need to remove. If a lot of sanding is needed use 150 grit sandpaper. Try to wet sand it with water and some shampoo.
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Sir May ibanez din ako na acoustic tapos masyadong mataas yung action kaya sinubukan kong i DIY....nasira ko yung intonation nung inadjust ko yung truss rod tapos nung niliha ko yung saddle nawalang yung brilliance at nabawasan ng resonance yung gitara... :( I suggest dalin niyo na lang po sa luthier. :wink:
Same happened to my father's friend who has a yamaha acoustic guitar. He sanded off the saddles to lower the action and the overall tone changed. He didn't realized that the it's on the bridge part the acoustic pickups are located. Umiba yung tunog ng acoustic niya plugged and unplugged. He brought it back to the store where he bought where a known guitar tech is working. Ingat lang mga bro. :eek:
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i dont know why i am reading a lot of truss rod recommendations here, because that is the last thing you should be touching, and if you do touch it, only do quarter turns and wait ... do not turn it like you are turning a screw with a screw driver.
to lower the action you have to either sand the bridge or the nut, or well, both. i would not do that myself, i will only let a luthier do those things.
or well, you could always try using smaller gauged strings first, and see if it works out. "Acoustic strings" are usually big, which translates to higher action than normal
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thanks sirs/ mesdammes for the replies,
so its generally the sanding protion of the bridge that requires to have my guitar's action lowered.
update: :|
I called my tita and asked for the receipt of the guitar (newly purchased pa pala 1 day lang) and brought it into the shop where i bought it. overall kakaiba ang tunog ng guitar ko kasi medyo warm "all mahogany body daw" compared sa ibang acoustics na ibanez dun na bright ang sound. Ang ginawa ng salesman dun in-adjust niya ang trus rod turned it clockwise for several times, bumaba ang action at nagiba ng tunog (as in mdeyo dikit na sa frets). kaya pina-tono ko ulit sa kanya ng tinono bumalik ang sound pero tumaas din ulit ang action (dahil sa tuning) pero mas mababa ng konti sa dati pero tumaas gawa ng pagkakatono. tinugtog ko parang ok pa din ang sound pero medyo iba na yata kumpara sa factory settings pero ok padin. :|
kung dadalahin ko sa luthier mas magiging ok kaya yung sound? kung DIY ko naman ang sanding di kaya pumangit ang sound? I was thinking of loosening the trus again at ibalik ang original factory setting for the meantime to know and compare if the sound really has changed because of it. :-\
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Sand the bridge and adjust the nut slots.
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thanks sirs/ mesdammes for the replies,
so its generally the sanding protion of the bridge that requires to have my guitar's action lowered.
update: :|
I called my tita and asked for the receipt of the guitar (newly purchased pa pala 1 day lang) and brought it into the shop where i bought it. overall kakaiba ang tunog ng guitar ko kasi medyo warm "all mahogany body daw" compared sa ibang acoustics na ibanez dun na bright ang sound. Ang ginawa ng salesman dun in-adjust niya ang trus rod turned it clockwise for several times, bumaba ang action at nagiba ng tunog (as in mdeyo dikit na sa frets). kaya pina-tono ko ulit sa kanya ng tinono bumalik ang sound pero tumaas din ulit ang action (dahil sa tuning) pero mas mababa ng konti sa dati pero tumaas gawa ng pagkakatono. tinugtog ko parang ok pa din ang sound pero medyo iba na yata kumpara sa factory settings pero ok padin. :|
kung dadalahin ko sa luthier mas magiging ok kaya yung sound? kung DIY ko naman ang sanding di kaya pumangit ang sound? I was thinking of loosening the trus again at ibalik ang original factory setting for the meantime to know and compare if the sound really has changed because of it. :-\
brad di naman mga luthier ang mga salesman sa shop. walang proper training sa pag seset-up (di naman siguro lahat)
pero mga luthier kasi yun na ang ginagawa nila, ang mag set-up.
for best result sa luthier mo na ipa set-up.
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thanks sirs/ mesdammes for the replies,
so its generally the sanding protion of the bridge that requires to have my guitar's action lowered.
update: :|
I called my tita and asked for the receipt of the guitar (newly purchased pa pala 1 day lang) and brought it into the shop where i bought it. overall kakaiba ang tunog ng guitar ko kasi medyo warm "all mahogany body daw" compared sa ibang acoustics na ibanez dun na bright ang sound. Ang ginawa ng salesman dun in-adjust niya ang trus rod turned it clockwise for several times, bumaba ang action at nagiba ng tunog (as in mdeyo dikit na sa frets). kaya pina-tono ko ulit sa kanya ng tinono bumalik ang sound pero tumaas din ulit ang action (dahil sa tuning) pero mas mababa ng konti sa dati pero tumaas gawa ng pagkakatono. tinugtog ko parang ok pa din ang sound pero medyo iba na yata kumpara sa factory settings pero ok padin. :|
kung dadalahin ko sa luthier mas magiging ok kaya yung sound? kung DIY ko naman ang sanding di kaya pumangit ang sound? I was thinking of loosening the trus again at ibalik ang original factory setting for the meantime to know and compare if the sound really has changed because of it. :-\
What do you mean by nagiba ng tunog, exactly? Nagkaron ba ng string buzz?
You get a luthier to do the job to help make sure it's done right. I mean, papano ka na pag sumobra yung pagliha mo? Sa luthier pa rin ang takbo mo and malamang mas malaki pa ang gagastusin mo in the end. If the sound of the guitar improves because of an adjustment in action, it's a side effect of you playing more comfortably.
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What do you mean by nagiba ng tunog, exactly? Nagkaron ba ng string buzz?
You get a luthier to do the job to help make sure it's done right. I mean, papano ka na pag sumobra yung pagliha mo? Sa luthier pa rin ang takbo mo and malamang mas malaki pa ang gagastusin mo in the end. If the sound of the guitar improves because of an adjustment in action, it's a side effect of you playing more comfortably.
+1 :)
Nagconsult ako sa audiophile sa megamall dati..sabi nung salesman siya na daw magaadjust ng action...pinihit pihit niya lang yung truss rod tapos siningil ako ng 300 daan...grabe...to make it worse sumama yung intonation ng gitara...pinakamaganda talaga...dalin sa luthier..:)
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im not an expert, but ALL mahogany acoustic guitar?
mahogany top, yes ... but all mahogany is kind of strange. post pics?
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im not an expert, but ALL mahogany acoustic guitar?
mahogany top, yes ... but all mahogany is kind of strange. post pics?
Some vintage Martins are all-mahogany. Hehehe ;-)
(http://www.vintage-guitars.se/1947_Martin_00-17.jpg)
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im not an expert, but ALL mahogany acoustic guitar?
mahogany top, yes ... but all mahogany is kind of strange. post pics?
Must be either of these:
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/ag_page13.php?area_id=4&data_id=279&color=CL01&year=2013&cat_id=3&series_id=129 (http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/ag_page13.php?area_id=4&data_id=279&color=CL01&year=2013&cat_id=3&series_id=129)
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/ag_page13.php?area_id=4&data_id=283&color=CL01&year=2013&cat_id=3&series_id=129 (http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/ag_page13.php?area_id=4&data_id=283&color=CL01&year=2013&cat_id=3&series_id=129)
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this leads to another big question...
How do you INTONATE an acoustic guitar???
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this leads to another big question...
How do you INTONATE an acoustic guitar???
I second the motion.
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this leads to another big question...
How do you INTONATE an acoustic guitar???
Intonation on an acoustic guitar is not as accurate as electrics since you don't adjust the saddle placement individually. But it is within a forgiveable range. Intonation is done at the construction phase. With proper setup, intonation shouldn't be much of a problem. Best improvement/upgrade for the traditional acoustic guitar is a compensated bridge saddle and/or a retrofit BFTS nut.
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Intonation on an acoustic guitar is not as accurate as electrics since you don't adjust the saddle placement individually. But it is within a forgiveable range. Intonation is done at the construction phase. With proper setup, intonation shouldn't be much of a problem. Best improvement/upgrade for the traditional acoustic guitar is a compensated bridge saddle and/or a retrofit BFTS nut.
Free2rock is correct. There are 2 types of acoustic saddles the Standard and Compensated.
(http://www.sheehans.com/images/help/standard-saddle.jpg)(http://www.sheehans.com/images/help/compensated-saddle.jpg)
This is why it is advisable to file the saddle from underneath. Meaning you have to take the whole saddle off.
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you learn something new everyday.
TS is lucky to have an all mahogany acoustic. i haven't seen or heard one up close
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first tune the guitar, check the neck, if its bowed then adjustment of the truss rod may lower the action, you can straighten it by turning the truss rod clockwise i usually do it 90 degrees at a time, tune then check the neck, repeat if necessary until straight na yung neck.
kung straight naman yung neck after tuning, at mataas talaga action, then sa nut ka rin pwede mag-adjust, bili ka na lang muna ng extra nut para dun ka muna magliha sayang nman kung yung orig yung masira.
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thanks for the replies sirs / mesdames,
I still haven't brought my guitar to a luthier due to my busy office schedule, but still plays it when I get home. The sound of my guitar somewhat different from my previous acoustic guitars, its better i think. maybe its the all mahogany body, kasi yung iba kong gitarang acoustic basag and tunog, etong all mahogany parang clear.
in the action issue, If sanding is required, I dont have the skills to do it confidently.
one thing I've noticed the bridge/saddle is angled to a certain level, when you peek from the side of the frets you will notice that the bass strings has a higher action than the 1,2,3 strings. Whats the purpose of this from the factory? is this designed that way? to achieve a specific tone? If I level the bridge/saddle so I can have a low action (if i will take this to a luthier) will it affect the overall tonal quality of my guitar?
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If you will file the saddle , lay a sandpaper on a flat surface then file the under section of the saddle over it.
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setting up my acoustics and electrics ever since. just some simple tools i use, allen wrench, sand paper and file, a lung metal ruler, and a caliper.
1. I just loosen the string, turn the thruss rod 1/4 turn at a time, and 1/8 turn to fine tune. If it doesnt turn DONT force it.
2. you could see the curvature by looking from the back of the guitar, by pressing the string in both ends of the fret, or I use my steel ruler and place it on top of the frets.
3. I usually measure the string height with my caliper.
4. Check if the strings play nicely, and determine the "acceptable" fret tone and fret buzz
5. Compensate a "bit" more...since putting back the strings tension would affect your setting.
im sure there are more members here with there own tips...so just read on. :-D
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If you will file the saddle , lay a sandpaper on a flat surface then file the under section of the saddle over it.
This. And make sure wag manggigil. SLow and steady. Or else it won't be flat.
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thanks for the replies sirs / mesdames,
I still haven't brought my guitar to a luthier due to my busy office schedule, but still plays it when I get home. The sound of my guitar somewhat different from my previous acoustic guitars, its better i think. maybe its the all mahogany body, kasi yung iba kong gitarang acoustic basag and tunog, etong all mahogany parang clear.
in the action issue, If sanding is required, I dont have the skills to do it confidently.
one thing I've noticed the bridge/saddle is angled to a certain level, when you peek from the side of the frets you will notice that the bass strings has a higher action than the 1,2,3 strings. Whats the purpose of this from the factory? is this designed that way? to achieve a specific tone? If I level the bridge/saddle so I can have a low action (if i will take this to a luthier) will it affect the overall tonal quality of my guitar?
yes. saddles are angled when you view at the top for intonation and at the heights to prevent buzzing against frets. Don't know if you have this but some guitars have a compensated saddle to help with the intonation. Artwood Ibanez guitars are studio quality so it's kind of painful to see why it suffered setup issues. Mine has a very low action.
Sanding will not have an effect on tonality. The worst you could do is end up with a buzzing guitar. You can shim it naman pag sumobra ka sa pagsand to bring it up to the desired level naman or get a replacement aftemarket saddle as others have mentioned.