TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: addbot on December 02, 2006, 07:35:29 AM
Title: About guitar recording...
Post by: addbot on December 02, 2006, 07:35:29 AM
Mga sir ano ba mas ok, magrecord na may gamit kang amp like marshall, peavey, etc. or direct na? Kasi nagrecord kami gamit ay yung M-Audio Firewire solo, bale guitar and fx tapos diretso na sa M-audio. Ano po ba mas advisable, gumamit ng amp o hindi?
Thanks!
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: tam_guitar on December 02, 2006, 09:41:46 AM
gamit ka ng amp modeler :lol: like rp50
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: choiskee333 on December 02, 2006, 10:27:19 AM
sir gamit ka ng amp tapos naka mic .preferably sm 57.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Jie on December 03, 2006, 01:47:37 AM
Addbot, I can't say which way is okay...Some use certain type of amp because of their tone character, combination na rin ng mic choices at kung anu-ano pa..
If you plug-in directly,you'll profit sa effects that is in the unit...Multi-effects pedal have own pre-amp, modulation effects, delays and reverbs..it means,before entering the console it is already processed.
Hope this helps.
Paki-post naman yung result ng recording nyo.and kung ano'ng gear.
Jie
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: shutterbugjohn on December 03, 2006, 01:59:02 AM
follow up question from a newbie sa pc recording.:)
what about analog distortion recording .i remember using a ds1 . ok sa amp ko, pag rekta ko sa soundcard panget na ng tunog. what do i need to do kung gusto ko ng direct to sound card?
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: xjepoyx on December 03, 2006, 02:05:31 AM
follow up question from a newbie sa pc recording.:)
what about analog distortion recording .i remember using a ds1 . ok sa amp ko, pag rekta ko sa soundcard panget na ng tunog. what do i need to do kung gusto ko ng direct to sound card?
What is your Sound Card?
chito_eoi has ds1, sd2 and mt1 and when we plug his guitar and effects on either my 1820m or Audigy ZS Platinum with a Behri MS20 Studio Monitor mas maganda pa tunog kesa using a guitar amp
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: music_doctor on December 03, 2006, 04:43:59 AM
follow up question from a newbie sa pc recording.:)
what about analog distortion recording .i remember using a ds1 . ok sa amp ko, pag rekta ko sa soundcard panget na ng tunog. what do i need to do kung gusto ko ng direct to sound card?
Basta gumamit ka ng stompbox rekta sa recording, kahit anong soundcard, kahit anong mixer na mamahalin kahit anong medium ng recording, digital or analog, it will sound real [gooey brown stuff]. Why? kasi, naa-alter ang EQ characteristics ng guitar. Remember... yung Dist mo na REKTA sa combo amp, ang speaker na nilalabasan ng tunog nun is DESIGNED for instrument use, mainly, the guitar... and, consider also the box where the speaker is mounted, yun din, it adds up to the sound ng guitar mo... plus the room where you are playing it...yun lang, it makes a TOTALLY different character, tapos... pag ni-rekta mo sa recording, yung 3-dimensional na sound ng setup mo, nagiging plane, as in 2-D... Now, para "mahabol" mo ang gsto mong sound when you record ng rekta with just that stompbox, you will need at least 3 stages of EQ, a compressor, and a digital reverb set to a very short, early reflection type, para ma simulate ang tunog ng speaker cabinet... Set it up in this sequence..... GUITAR==> EQ1==> Compressor==> EQ2==> Reverb(early reflection)==> EQ3==> soundcard.... TIP: your EQs must really pronounce those mid frequencies more. ... para mas mapadali ang mga bagay-bagay, just use an amp simulator after your favorite stompbox, or forget about your stompbox and just use a multiFX with an already built-in ampsim :-D
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: shutterbugjohn on December 03, 2006, 01:03:56 PM
music_doc, may ym ka ba? hehehe
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: jakobspiral on December 04, 2006, 05:08:24 AM
Oh yeah, you can't plug stompbox effects directly to your mixer/soundcard/interface/whatever. You have to have something called "Amp" in your signal chain.
1) You can use Amp modelers, either digital fx or software plugins. But they don't sound like real amp cabinets, in my opinion. Kahit yung high end (line6, digitech, boss, native instruments) doesn't compare with real amp cabinets.
2) Or, if you want an almost true amp sound without using an amp, the only option would be to use a Tech21 SansAmp. Best of both worlds ka dito. Tunog real amp (well, almost) + without the hassle of having to worry about mic placement and room acoustics.
3) Or, for the best sound (para sakin), you can just mic an amp (refer to the replies above me).
In a nutshell, whether you choose option 1), 2) or 3), depende yan sa tenga mo. Kurt Cobain plugged his ds-1 directly into the recording console without using an amp for "Territorial Pissings", I think...
Anyway, have fun recording. :-)
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: addbot on December 04, 2006, 12:10:27 PM
gamit ko po yung gfx-1 medyo di ko feel yung bigat ng tunog... sabi sa akin ng sound engineer mas ok raw yung guitar >> gfx1 >> tapos dun sa m-audio kasi flat daw yun.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: jakobspiral on December 05, 2006, 05:46:38 PM
gamit ko po yung gfx-1 medyo di ko feel yung bigat ng tunog... sabi sa akin ng sound engineer mas ok raw yung guitar >> gfx1 >> tapos dun sa m-audio kasi flat daw yun.
teka... what do you mean by "bigat"?
kung bigat in terms of equalization, pwede mong ayusin yung equalizer sa gfx-1, lakasan mo yung bass, para mas "mabigat" ang labas...
or, "bigat" in terms of distortion ba sinasabi mo? pwede mong baguhin wiring ng pickups mo or buy a new pickup na higher output para mas ma-"bigat" ang distortion.
or, gumamit ka ng mas ma-"bigat" na distortion fx...
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: skunkyfunk on December 06, 2006, 05:39:33 PM
Recording guitars is NOT supposed to be a walk in the park. To get an OK sound is quite easy. But to get a GODLY sound is another. Now granting you have talent and want to get a good sound on record, this is where proper production values should come in. For heaven's sake, there is a myriad of badly-recorded guitar tracks in the local albums, and sad to say that they don't speak for the amount of talent that most guitarists here have.
For me, the most important thing in the signal chain is NOT the guitar, NOT the cable, NOT the mic, not the DAW, and definitely NOT THE FX. THE AMP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.
Huh? But I don't own an amp. Or at least my amp is a sucky 10 watter. What about using my multifx through the studio amp? - This is the common problem. A lot of people are so used to bringing fx to gigs so most don't even know how they sound. I mean, it's like getting a good sound on record for most guitarists is a moving target. So the studio in turn becomes another problem for for the guitarist especially if the studio has inadequate amps for different applications.
So what's the solution? FIND A GREAT AMP FOR THE SOUND YOU WANT. IF YOU PLUG STRAIGHT AND IT SOUNDS GOOD, THEN THAT'S WHAT YOU SHOULD USE FOR THE RECORDING. As much as possible, copy your heroes' rigs if you can (not virtually, but in a real guitar and amp setup). If you like Killswitch Engage, get a Framus Cobra. If you like old school Van Halen, get a Plexi and a variac. If you like Queen, get a Vox AC30. At that, you are 80% close. Now the only thing you have to worry about is how to mic it and find the right room to record it in. If you want a drier sound, you have at leas less problems with the ambient miking, and for all you know you might not need it.
Miking is not rocket science. You have a lot of resources for that. It boils down to taste if your prefer dynamic mics like Shure Sm57, SM58, Sennheiser MD421, E609, Condensers like Neumann U87, AKG C12, AKG 414, or Ribbons like thre RCA 44B or Royer r121. Get a good mic preamp. NEVER USE A CHEAP MIXER AS YOUR PREAMP BECAUSE IT JUST RUINS THE 3-DIMENSIONALITY OF THE SIGNAL.
Snake your guitar cable from the control room to the amp and you should hear your signal from the monitors. Now if you have an improperly set-up control room then you'll just have more problems. Bad monitors = more chances of getting the wrong sound. Untreated walls = more chances of getting unwanted umphh because of the frequency dips in the room.
:mrgreen:
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 06, 2006, 06:35:56 PM
There's this story about The Kink's Dave Davies who poked his mom's knitting needle into his 10-watt amp speaker and got a new sound. Later on, he used a razor blade on the cone and got a distorted, jagged, and offensive sound - exactly what he was looking for!
While I don't want this thread degenerating into a "my amp is more expensive that your amp, so it's better" thread, I think we should take things in the proper context. Having the most expensive and the best not necessarily is; it's all a matter of personal perception and opinion. Having the sound that you want, regardless of how it was done, should be the focus of this thread.
We can all GAS for that most expensive amp, most expensive cab, most expensive set of analog fx there is, but if a 10-watt amp and a bunch of DIY pedals do the same thing or better, or is exactly what one is looking for, then by all means go for it! If a crappy, 2nd hand, defective mic gives the sound you are looking for, then by all means! Like I said in another thread, it doesn't matter if it's miked or not, if it's the sound you are looking for, then by all means record it! All too often, we dwell on things like, "your amp sounds crappy..." or whatever. I'd like to think more like, "hmmm... that sounds good... now let's make it better."
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on December 07, 2006, 06:51:11 AM
I prefer micing my amp because I like the sound it makes in my room with my speakers. If I got direct...I use my amp modeler a Vamp2 for rhythm and background guitars....for Lead...defiitely micing.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: starfugger on December 07, 2006, 11:21:46 AM
dude if you have an amp and a cheap mic try using those first. just for the experience. then try amp simulators and see which sounds better.
im all for micing the amp of course.
whatever u do have fun! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: geetar_geek79 on December 07, 2006, 11:47:57 AM
I'm new to recording, but I believe I can say that everything can be used in context - no matter what equipment it is. Dimebag Darell actually used a cigarette pack sized 'smokey' amp in Far Beyond Driven. I believe it was on "Strength Beyond Strength" and "Good Friends and a Bottle of Pill". Now, he didn't use it as his main amp, but he did find a use for it. I forgot where I read it from, must be from an old Guitar World magazine... I was just amazed because when I listened back to the record after reading what he said, it occured to me that one passage did sound like it was coming from a smokey amp.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Direk on December 07, 2006, 12:03:05 PM
For me, the most important thing in the signal chain is NOT the guitar, NOT the cable, NOT the mic, not the DAW, and definitely NOT THE FX. THE AMP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.
Did you said signal chain? I guess that speaks to what is more important...all those in the chains...not only the amp, not only the guitar, not only the cable, not only the DAW, not only the room, not only the mic's...Remember, good music not only sound is in the details of those chains.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on December 07, 2006, 02:53:53 PM
For me, the most important thing in the signal chain is NOT the guitar, NOT the cable, NOT the mic, not the DAW, and definitely NOT THE FX. THE AMP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.
...Remember, good music not sound is in the details of those chains.
whaaaaaaaatttt? :?
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: starfugger on December 07, 2006, 03:16:24 PM
LOL i felt the same way ... maybe what he meant was that it's not just about gear. it's ultimately about the MUSIC.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: music_doctor on December 07, 2006, 03:20:14 PM
WALANG PANGET ... THERE'S NOTHING THAT IS UGLY! ... WE ONLY HAVE PREFERENCES!
:-D
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: chuck sabbath on December 07, 2006, 11:15:47 PM
anyone heard the SimulAnalog Guitar suite?!? they sound good and theyre free! they model a few pedals and some amps...pretty decent for quick and dirty work when you dont wanna have to mic up an amp
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Direk on December 08, 2006, 05:39:50 AM
For me, the most important thing in the signal chain is NOT the guitar, NOT the cable, NOT the mic, not the DAW, and definitely NOT THE FX. THE AMP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.
...Remember, good music not sound is in the details of those chains.
whaaaaaaaatttt? :?
Yes Ma'am, Sturfugger. You read me right. To you Phil, Of course, sound is the necessary medium for music. It's the sound that makes the music, not the notes. For one thing, I stand for to use music than sound. So what are those words worth? If we accept that much of modern technology has been developing in the wrong direction, that there are many, many systems out there that may offer beautiful sound but that don't stand a chance of providing real emotional pleasure, the obvious question is Why? Still, by a mysterious paradox, fidelity to sound does not always coincide with fidelity to the emotion, which is the soul itself of music. Probably, you know now my musical bias- sitting and listening attentively with eyes closed, letting the music---not the sound--tell you how good the system is.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on December 08, 2006, 11:25:59 AM
For me, the most important thing in the signal chain is NOT the guitar, NOT the cable, NOT the mic, not the DAW, and definitely NOT THE FX. THE AMP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.
...Remember, good music not sound is in the details of those chains.
whaaaaaaaatttt? :?
Yes Ma'am, Sturfugger. You read me right. To you Phil, Of course, sound is the necessary medium for music. It's the sound that makes the music, not the notes. For one thing, I stand for to use music than sound. So what are those words worth? If we accept that much of modern technology has been developing in the wrong direction, that there are many, many systems out there that may offer beautiful sound but that don't stand a chance of providing real emotional pleasure, the obvious question is Why? Still, by a mysterious paradox, fidelity to sound does not always coincide with fidelity to the emotion, which is the soul itself of music. Probably, you know now my musical bias- sitting and listening attentively with eyes closed, letting the music---not the sound--tell you how good the system is.
I'm not trying to make fun of you or anything.......just want to know if you are using an english translation software? I do understand tagalog....no offense :-)
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: skunkyfunk on December 08, 2006, 11:23:55 PM
There's this story about The Kink's Dave Davies who poked his mom's knitting needle into his 10-watt amp speaker and got a new sound. Later on, he used a razor blade on the cone and got a distorted, jagged, and offensive sound - exactly what he was looking for!
While I don't want this thread degenerating into a "my amp is more expensive that your amp, so it's better" thread, I think we should take things in the proper context. Having the most expensive and the best not necessarily is; it's all a matter of personal perception and opinion. Having the sound that you want, regardless of how it was done, should be the focus of this thread.
We can all GAS for that most expensive amp, most expensive cab, most expensive set of analog fx there is, but if a 10-watt amp and a bunch of DIY pedals do the same thing or better, or is exactly what one is looking for, then by all means go for it! If a crappy, 2nd hand, defective mic gives the sound you are looking for, then by all means! Like I said in another thread, it doesn't matter if it's miked or not, if it's the sound you are looking for, then by all means record it! All too often, we dwell on things like, "your amp sounds crappy..." or whatever. I'd like to think more like, "hmmm... that sounds good... now let's make it better."
KitC, I know what you mean. But unluckily, most local guitarists are very uninformed about how to get good sounds on record. I am not here to promote boutique equipment over cheap, but rather, HAVING AN INFORMED CHOICE IN RECORDING. If Joe Perry used a 12 Watt SS Marshall Lead 12 in some songs, does that mean he wouldn't use his Bad Cats and Plexis anymore? Having choices between from a $3000 Bogner guitar amp to a P3,000 Marshall MG guitar amp is the essence of recording- HAVING A WIDE TONE PALETTE. But unfortunately this "Cheap can do" mentality is counter-productive. Kumbaga, "eto kasi nakasanayan kong setup pag gig kaya ito na rin sa recording..." It's like we're licking our wound rather than cure the wound. For heaven's sake, we have Exile and the have a Bruno, and a bunch of high end amps like a Marshall Plexi reissue, but who do you know that bothered to rent one of their amps for a recording session?
It all boils down to HAVING WRONG PRODUCTION VALUES! Maling pagtitipid kaya di maganda ang resulta.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: abyssinianson on December 09, 2006, 04:13:14 AM
1. Use what you have access to and learn their limitations. 2. Pining for something you don't have or can't afford is not going to help you get something on record - even if the saying the cheaper stuff isn't good at all. If you have a means to get a sound recorded - any means - do it. I started with a boom box way, way, way before I even ventured to tape and DAW recording methodology. I still have a hand held tape recorder I keep to strum guitar chord progressions and hummed melodies. 3. Don't say can't. Try everything you have access to and learn from the physics of it because knowing the basics will help you use better equipment later on.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: starfugger on December 10, 2006, 05:33:28 PM
hey that's pretty good xtaxi :)
haven't really heard the sans amp SANS AMP, LOL. very nice :) did you use some sort of room reverb for this?
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on December 10, 2006, 05:40:47 PM
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: x_taxi on December 11, 2006, 12:48:52 AM
starfugger -
tnx. it was fun tryin to figure out how to make the guitar sound bigger. tryin to remember what i used for that. hehe. think it's one of the reverb presets from the xenyx fx. actually forgot to put that in my prior post. also, i think i used the speaker edge setting sa sansamp.
phil -
nice playin bro! did you use plug-ins in the mixdown for that? or was it an effects/multifx pedal? great guitar tone.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on December 11, 2006, 04:42:52 AM
nice playin bro! did you use plug-ins in the mixdown for that? or was it an effects/multifx pedal? great guitar tone.
thanks.... all the guitars are recorded dry...walang pedal o effects sa harap o effects loop ng amp. I added a tiny bit of delay(plug in sa software) sa lead guitar lang...to create ambience..make the lead guitar fuller.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: skunkyfunk on December 11, 2006, 03:22:48 PM
tnx. it was fun tryin to figure out how to make the guitar sound bigger. tryin to remember what i used for that. hehe. think it's one of the reverb presets from the xenyx fx. actually forgot to put that in my prior post. also, i think i used the speaker edge setting sa sansamp.
phil -
nice playin bro! did you use plug-ins in the mixdown for that? or was it an effects/multifx pedal? great guitar tone.
You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller. I've seen nice modelling amps but if you rely on digital multi-fx modellers, that would still call for serious amp choices to make them sound great.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 11, 2006, 04:06:38 PM
You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller.
Actually, you can but it will take some doing and a lot of imagination. No different than what they did with a 10-watt amp in the old days. One of the secrets is to split the guitar signal and record it before it hits the amp; that way, you can "re-amp" the guitar track when you get a "serious amp".
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 11, 2006, 11:04:47 PM
Just to add, I fully understand the need to record with the best you can get your hands on. I, for one, like to use the best samples and keyboards I can use for my compositions, but that is not always an option; most of us cannot afford the best. Then again, that isn't always what we need. All too often, we underutilize what we already have and have not explored fully what our gear can really do - we only know the obvious.
For example, I once downloaded a .pcg file for my X3 where one particular patch went into a feedback loop. I thought I knew my X3 inside out, but checking the parameters showed no obvious reason for the feedback, and I couldn't replicate the condition on another patch either. What's the anecdote with all this? It only shows that while I may have a deep understanding of my gear, I haven't fully explored it either. The same with most of us I'm afraid. That's what separates the real pathfinders and innovators; they work with what they have and go beyond it; they think outside the box.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: abyssinianson on December 12, 2006, 12:25:03 AM
You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller.
Actually, you can but it will take some doing and a lot of imagination. No different than what they did with a 10-watt amp in the old days. One of the secrets is to split the guitar signal and record it before it hits the amp; that way, you can "re-amp" the guitar track when you get a "serious amp".
Ah, the beauty of blending. I am a huge fan of this approach, always have been. I mean, use what works, you know?
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on December 12, 2006, 04:27:10 AM
You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller.
Actually, you can but it will take some doing and a lot of imagination. No different than what they did with a 10-watt amp in the old days. One of the secrets is to split the guitar signal and record it before it hits the amp; that way, you can "re-amp" the guitar track when you get a "serious amp".
AWESOME TIP, pareng Kit. Can you PM it to me how to do it? Honestly...being a guitar player and a tube amp owner....I think its blasphemy......I feel cheated. hehehehe...but its cool. I want to know how do it though.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: geetar_geek79 on December 12, 2006, 04:34:05 AM
^I think from the guitar, you split the signal to two. One goes to the amp you record with (so you can monitor it properly). Then one goes to a DI then to the recorder - recorded dry. When you want to record the dry track using a different amp, you take the dry track, use a reamping box, then send it to an amp, then record it again without you playing the same track over again. It's a really nice studio trick. I still have to try it myself, though. The trick here is having the reamp thingymajig.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: jakobspiral on December 12, 2006, 06:46:05 AM
about guitar recording...
HISS
how do you get rid of it?
mods? noise removing software? noise gates?
i plug my sansamp directly into my jamlab.
also... HISS in vocal recording.
i tried plugging my art mp directly into my jamlab, sounds ok. but... hiss.... :-D
the art mp vocal preamp naturally has hiss. maybe after a few mods i can have the the hiss lowered. but there would still be hiss, right?
ms. starfugger, i checked your website... wow. great sound on the demo song! :), you use an art mp as listed in your utensils... how did you remove the hiss?
i don't think it's the jamlab because i tried earphones on both sansamp and art mp, but they still have hiss... malala noise nung art mp. minimal hiss nung sansamp.
i don't think it's my SG or at2020, it sounds hiss free on stage...
help, anyone? :-)
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: rakrakan on December 12, 2006, 08:01:25 AM
just my 2 cent here guys, baka makatulong.
There's no hard and fast rule. Use what you have. Listen. Learn how to use what you have. Going through simulators is quick and convenient, it can also be affordable rather than mic'ing an amp. But mic'ing an amp presents a very physical appreciation of the guitar sound. It's really up to you and your band (and budget) what you use.
for me, the most important part in recording guitars or any instrument is the musician - the player. I've recorded direct & mic'd amps, I've seen great players make great sounds and music out of crappy instruments. Likewise, I've also seen players make crappy sounds out of fantastic instruments.
Once you have the playing and musicianship covered - the quest turns to the "SOUND".
Then there's the song. the music. Like what some of the posts here have suggested - check the guitar sound in context of the music. serve the song.
good luck to your quest recording great guitar tones.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 12, 2006, 10:22:21 AM
AWESOME TIP, pareng Kit. Can you PM it to me how to do it? Honestly...being a guitar player and a tube amp owner....I think its blasphemy......I feel cheated. hehehehe...but its cool. I want to know how do it though.
Phil,
Here's a complete applications list, complete with diagrams, from Reamp.com (http://reamp.com/applications/). Here's a pic of the reamp devices:
(http://reamp.com/images/fp-730-v2-color.jpg)
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 12, 2006, 10:38:34 AM
@jakobspiral - somewhere along the line in your signal path, you have increased gain beyond the point that you are now amplifying noise. This is among the principles of gain staging; you adjust the output of one device so that the device that succeeds it in the chain does not apply a tremendous amount of signal amplification. Whenever you apply a lot of gain, you also amplify noise (and hiss) along with it. Impedance mismatching, and mixing -10dBV/+4dBu equipment haphazardly are often the causes. All electronic gear have some form of hiss, but the really well designed ones have very high SNR ratios that all but eliminate hiss and noise. That why I have my eye on Baldo's Grace Design 201! :wink:
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: starfugger on December 12, 2006, 06:22:47 PM
hello jakobspiral. thanks. :)
i do use the ART tube MP,. however not on the demo i have below. that's what i often say about entry-level preamps versus the really good ones. most well designed preamps have very low to almost no hiss at all :) the pre's i used on the demo were joe meek vc1 and aphex 1100a tube pre's.
do follow kit's advice about gain staging. this should be the fastest and easiest cure. if that does not do the job, KitC has a couple of mods for the ART tube MP i think ;) you may however use noise removal softwares like ones from sonic foundry or waves but they are heavy on the pocket.
also, you'll find that using pedals like the metal zone will introduce a lot of humming to the signal. i suggest you simply saturate your amp's tubes to get hum free distortion :) hope this helps.
KitC i think there's also one from Radial. i want one of these! :-D
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: jakobspiral on December 12, 2006, 11:37:50 PM
to Hazel:
whoa... entry level = hiss, k i'll remember that. :), next time, i'll test the unit first before i buy it... (i hope my art mp can be fixed... if not i'll just buy an avalon... kidding. :-D)
to KitC:
hmm... i guess my at2020 must be low output (that's weird, i thought condensers were supposed to be loud...) since it's the only thing before my art mp in the signal chain.
my signal chain:
at2020 -> art mp -> jamlab
or
guitar -> sansamp -> jamlab
hmm, you do mods... great! can i have your contact #?
also, is there a thread compiling contact #'s and names of people who do mods? like KitC, BAMF, etc. i tried messaging BAMF once, his mailbox was full...
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 13, 2006, 12:23:15 AM
Not all condensers have a hot output; some are hotter than others. Not sure about your Tube MP but ART's preamps usually have a +20 dB gain button, try engaging that. I've also read about replacing the cheap chinese 12ax7 tube that comes with these ARTs. You could try using an NOS Mullard or Telefunken ECC83. One more thing... check the underside of the ART. There are 4 screws that connect the upper body to the lower plate. I've read that one of the screws is overly long and can come in contact with the power supply. If you loosen that screw just a little, it will break contact and make the ART much more quieter.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: starfugger on December 13, 2006, 05:32:58 AM
whoa... entry level = hiss, k i'll remember that. :), next time, i'll test the unit first before i buy it... (i hope my art mp can be fixed... if not i'll just buy an avalon... kidding. :-D)
to KitC:
hmm... i guess my at2020 must be low output (that's weird, i thought condensers were supposed to be loud...) since it's the only thing before my art mp in the signal chain.
my signal chain:
at2020 -> art mp -> jamlab
or
guitar -> sansamp -> jamlab
hmm, you do mods... great! can i have your contact #?
also, is there a thread compiling contact #'s and names of people who do mods? like KitC, BAMF, etc. i tried messaging BAMF once, his mailbox was full...
lol i didnt mean to put it that way. just that in my experience these more affordable pre's exhibit more noise when compared side by side to the ... um ... less affordable ones, hehe. i wish it were not so. but there are good affordable pre's out there like the sytek (which can be bought in 4 channel configuration) or the RNP. ive not had any experience with these but i have my eye on them.
yes BAMF might be able to help. also you may want to dig around for mr. lito bote's number.
hope this helps.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: abyssinianson on December 13, 2006, 12:11:01 PM
starfugger, the RNP is really nice, simple, effective and clean. I would not hesitate to recommend anything from FMR, especially their new limiting amp. I had a chance to try it out through a demo and the thing ROCKS like the dickens! Ballsy, ballsy little thing.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: The D on December 13, 2006, 02:15:03 PM
Anyone here tried the Line 6 guitar port rifftracker? Yung daw yung pinakamadaling way para mag record sa pc.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: jakobspiral on December 13, 2006, 03:54:54 PM
KitC,
i took out the screws and taped the bottom to the top. it worked! definitely less noise now. Thanks! :-D :-D :-D
Hazel, in that case, i've got my sights set on the Joemeek OneQ. :-D
well, all i'm gonna be recording in my room is vocals and guitar anyway, so might as well invest on a good preamp! :-)
for everything else i'm gonna be recording with bandmates, i'd rather go to a professional recording studio. :wink:
The D,
i tried that sa states, medyo may latency pero di naman masyado compared to native instruments guitar rig... (or maybe di lang pala naayos nung store yung software settings... anyway) it really is very, very, very convenient compared to other solutions. plug and play talaga. hassle free.
i didn't like the sound though... but a lot of people love line 6, so you might like the sound too. :-)
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 13, 2006, 04:20:26 PM
You don't have to take out all screws. 8-) Just find the one that comes into contact with a transformer, I think. All you have to do is file off a millimeter or 2 from the end; or maybe add a couple of washers. Or you could just remove that single screw. Wouldn't want to have the bottom fall off when you pick the ART up.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: xjepoyx on December 13, 2006, 05:26:46 PM
medyo may latency pero di naman masyado compared to native instruments guitar rig... (or maybe di lang pala naayos nung store yung software settings...
sound ng NI GR eh halos similar sa mga stomp boxes ng boss. somewhat 50% digital and 50% analog ang tunog thats why have acquired it. Anyway back yo ur problem sa latency? gaano kataas? we usually get as low as 6ms lang. try tweaking some setting sa audio settings and NIGR control panel.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: starfugger on December 14, 2006, 08:26:49 AM
.... Wouldn't want to have the bottom fall off when you pick the ART up.
ehehe, that's what i thought Kit. hmmm..... parang nainspire ako dito.... ano kaya i-mod ko ART and replace the tube... wonder how different it would sound with a NOS tube
@abyss have you heard about the sytek pre by mr mike stoica? how does it compare to the RNP? thanks.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: jakobspiral on December 14, 2006, 09:49:17 AM
hmmm..... parang nainspire ako dito.... ano kaya i-mod ko ART and replace the tube... wonder how different it would sound with a NOS tube
ey, san makakabili ng NOS or Telefunken tube dito sa pinas? anyone here know anyone here selling these?
also, anyone here know if the self noise on the ART is because of its electronics or tubes? coz, if it's because of the electronics, then i guess changing the tubes won't reduce the self noise... there's still noise, even if i unplugged all inputs... there's still a little bit of noise...
alright i put the screws back halfway. :-)
i just realized that i prefer the sound of my guitar being plugged into a vocal preamp (my ART) as compared to a guitar amp. amazing. :-D
so, in addition to the topic "About guitar recording...", you could also plug a guitar into a vocal preamp. i tried it and it sounds great for clean guitar!
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: KitC on December 14, 2006, 01:58:19 PM
ey, san makakabili ng NOS or Telefunken tube dito sa pinas? anyone here know anyone here selling these?
If you look around in Raon, you might find some NOS (New-Old-Stock) RCA 12AX7s if you're lucky enough. Generally, the chinese tubes are crappy and inconsistent - something about their philosophy of quantity over quality. You can go for Sovtek or EH tubes; even PPitch sells some Fender branded 12AX7 (pricey). The ART is somewhat noisy at high gain settings, try feeding it a hot signal to get better SNRs.
Hazel, I've been thinking of using a 12AT7 or even 12AU7 for a possibly smoother distortion. It will mean less gain if I use the 12AT7 though.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Direk on December 14, 2006, 02:23:44 PM
.... Wouldn't want to have the bottom fall off when you pick the ART up.
ehehe, that's what i thought Kit. hmmm..... parang nainspire ako dito.... ano kaya i-mod ko ART and replace the tube... wonder how different it would sound with a NOS tube
@abyss have you heard about the sytek pre by mr mike stoica? how does it compare to the RNP? thanks.
i have heard about sytek and they have been very good reviews; pretty much on par with how people received the Great River stuff, i think. however, i've never personally used Sytek stuff but am very curious to give them a go.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on December 15, 2006, 04:25:52 AM
Sovtek....reliable....cheap....for amps ...sounds like cardboard...yuck. IMHO lang. preamps and powertubes. I have 3 power tubes 5881s ...who wants it?
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: skunkyfunk on December 16, 2006, 04:03:34 PM
medyo may latency pero di naman masyado compared to native instruments guitar rig... (or maybe di lang pala naayos nung store yung software settings...
sound ng NI GR eh halos similar sa mga stomp boxes ng boss. somewhat 50% digital and 50% analog ang tunog thats why have acquired it. Anyway back yo ur problem sa latency? gaano kataas? we usually get as low as 6ms lang. try tweaking some setting sa audio settings and NIGR control panel.
Huh? The stompboxes are just causing too much digital noise especially the distortion boxes. With the real analog versions, you get some nasty hummmmm. With the Guitar Rig versions, you get nasty hummmmmm + shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh which is so pathetic.
And have you even bothered to A/B the stomps and the GR versions? the DS1 for instance sounded a bit lossy in the highs compared to the real one. The TS808 emulation was good though, however it still lacks transparency beause of the digital shhhhhhhhhh noise.
I only recommend guitar rig if you are stuck on modellers. IMO it emulates much better than the PODXT and others, only that I hate the high gain sounds. The Mesa emulations are far from the sounds of a real Recto.
TUBE AMPS RULE! :evil:
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: aden on December 20, 2006, 10:45:17 AM
ang dami ko natutunan sa inyo...
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: turiguiliano on December 23, 2006, 04:44:12 AM
whoa... entry level = hiss, k i'll remember that. :), next time, i'll test the unit first before i buy it... (i hope my art mp can be fixed... if not i'll just buy an avalon... kidding. :-D)
to KitC:
hmm... i guess my at2020 must be low output (that's weird, i thought condensers were supposed to be loud...) since it's the only thing before my art mp in the signal chain.
my signal chain:
at2020 -> art mp -> jamlab
or
guitar -> sansamp -> jamlab
hmm, you do mods... great! can i have your contact #?
also, is there a thread compiling contact #'s and names of people who do mods? like KitC, BAMF, etc. i tried messaging BAMF once, his mailbox was full...
My Behringer MIC200 is now pressed in operation and I don't seem to have much hiss problems with it (if at all). The secret to it is not to be tempted to put the gain volume up. With the gain at past 12 o clock, that's where you hear the hiss.
Title: Re: About guitar recording...
Post by: Phil on January 08, 2007, 12:23:35 PM