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The Musician Forums => Pinoydrums => Topic started by: daemonite on March 07, 2007, 12:45:25 AM
Title: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: daemonite on March 07, 2007, 12:45:25 AM
Eto yung pinag-usapan namin ni sensei jp nung nagdrum talk kami sa yupanco (nyahaha, nakalusot kami sa mga dinosaur).
Bakit kunwari long hair ka like sensei or sissy boy look ka magtataka mga tao m\kapag iba tinutugtog mo.
meron pa yung sabi sa akin ni sensei na porke rock ka, parang underrated ka na drummer. parang pag kunwari hindi ka fusion or progressive or jazz trato sa yo underrated. being a drummer takes skill kasi hawak mo ang buong buhay ng banda. yes, may kanya-kanya tayong role na instruments pero still, we have the greatest load in playing. kelangan tayo ang pinakaprecise kasi pag tayo ang in-accurate, nawawala ang essence ng song.
Take this for example, yung pinagse-sessionan ko na show band, sabi ng ibang members magaling daw yung drummer nila kasi nakakapag double-peds. pero as i was observing his grooves and chops. taken na magaling nga sya, pero what's the use of being super fast and putting dped notes on the songs kung wala naman sa ayos ang mga pinag-sisiksikan nya sa mga skills nya. example, irreplaceable ni beyonce, why the hell na may double peds pa dun na tugugugugugudug? it's an r&b song, pero bakit may heavy rock essence sya?
i dunno, it maybe insecurity, pero kung ganon na rin lang ang magiging development and discipline ko as a drummer, better stick to basics na lang ako. at least, yung essence ng kanta andun pa rin.
in my opinion, hindi naman kelangan ipagmayabang yung skills mo sa showband kung mali pa rin ang paglalagyan mo sa mga ito. meron pa rin yung mga taong ayaw marinig ang umpog ng dpeds.
anyone can share a light about this matter?
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: Diadem on March 07, 2007, 01:02:55 AM
bro. madami akong kilala na ganyan ang approach sa music...
very busog sa lick mga songs nila... but thats okay.. :wink:
sila un eh.. thats their style..
or maybe.. they got tired with that song kaya pinag tritripan nlang nila yung kanta.. or.. maybe its a challanged for them.. like.. how many lick can u fit in one riff?
or how fast can u put a dped groove in 56bpm?
mga ganun ba.. trip trip lng.. besides its just a set, not a recording
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: daemonite on March 07, 2007, 01:08:03 AM
pero paano yung mga taong prejudice na kapag rock drummer ka sasabihing laos ka? porke fusion sila or jazz or something....
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: drumster on March 07, 2007, 01:12:26 AM
Speaking of double bass licks on R&B songs, check out Sonny Emory and his live performances with Earth Wind & Fire. He actually uses straight-ahead double bass licks on certain parts, and he applies it with taste and in a musical context. Today's live R&B music is heavily influenced by fusion and Gospel music, that's why a lot of R&B drummers nowadays have opened that eclectic, exciting drumming style.
Actually, I also use double bass licks with our brand of R&B and hiphop music. :-D But I try to make sure that I'm not overdoing it, and it will fit the part.
Are we talking about physical appearance here? If that's the case, it doesn't matter to me. If the cat can play, then he/she can play.
It will probably matter if you're in a band or group where in a certain image is needed to be projected, for marketing/publicity and recall. For example, I'm in an R&B/hiphop band, so we need to dress the part and project that kind of image. In my case, I'm not really a natural hiphop guy, but I somehow make an effort to project that kind of image. Besides, for me, what matters is that I'm able to credibly and effectively play the drumming style and feel of R&B/hiphop music. I'm still working on it up to now.
Regarding that double bass thing... I always believe that double bass can be used on various styles of music. These are modern times, and somehow we should think out of the box. I'm glad that double bass playing is no longer stereotyped with rock/heavy metal/thrash music. We now see drummers who play mainstream music, yet they're able to somehow apply double bass. And for me, that's a good thing. It's part of the continuing evolution of the drumset, and the art of drumming.
As long as it's played with taste and musicality, it's alright for me.
And regarding the attitude... Like what I shared in the last mini-EB, our intentions as musicians/artists must be pure and without malice. Never perform for your ego, or just to show off, or just to prove that you can do some crazy chops, and all those shallow reasons. Play for the music, and for the love of it. Music is not about competition.
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: Diadem on March 07, 2007, 01:17:23 AM
pero paano yung mga taong prejudice na kapag rock drummer ka sasabihing laos ka? porke fusion sila or jazz or something....
ay pare iba na yan... aawayin ko na sila...
trip mo yun.. they have to respect that! pag rock ka.. rock talga.. dun ka masaya eh..
there are things na ndi kaya gawin ng mga jazz drummers pag usapan ang rock...
although khit sabihin nila na rock drumming is the basic and fundamental aspect of all music... and jazz is one of the difficult genres that you can play.. for me.. there are both difficult.. they are just different...
kung baga sa rock .. dapat solid mga palo mo always consistent.. right on time..
sa jazz naman.. control.. etc softness.. mga chuvaness.. ganun.. still both are difficult to attain.. rock or jazz..
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: Diadem on March 07, 2007, 01:18:55 AM
Quote
As long as it's played with taste and musicality, it's alright for me.
correct!!!
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: daemonite on March 07, 2007, 01:21:44 AM
Thanks for the enlighenment bro drumster.
Dapat nga talaga dpeds must be done in good taste and timing, kaso yung sa kanya talaga wala eh :lol:. Eto pa isang kanta - half crazy ng freestyle. I can understand siguro kung pasingit-singit or part ng fill ang pagpasok ng dpeds nya eh. kaso the thing is, he sometimes does it as a fill for the whole line of the song.
About the image thing, i'm talking about those people na nagmamagaling na wala naman alam sa drumming na nagsasabing "Ay, rock ka ba? hindi mo ba alam ang fusion / progressive / jazz?" Tapos bigla ang baba ng tingin sa yo. Nakakaasar mga taong ganon diba?
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: drumster on March 07, 2007, 01:26:52 AM
Actually, jazz is the mother of all modern styles of music.
About the Half Crazy example... Ayan! An example of what not to play. We need to be sensitive to the song.
About those people who pigeonhole musicians into a specific genre... I don't really care, and I won't let them bother me. But if they do, I want to see and hear them play some music. Show us what you got. 8-)
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: daemonite on March 07, 2007, 01:34:49 AM
ang nakakatawa pa bro drumster, parang nagsho-showboat pa sya pag nakikita nya na andun ako. :lol: tuloy, bubulungan ako nung manager ng band. di ko alam kung nananadya sya.
anyways, kapag nakakakita ako ng mga prejudice killjoys, tumatahimik na lang ako and i just show them kapag perform na kami.
ang ideals ko kasi is this: di bale nang hindi magaling ang band individually, pero kapag nagperform sila, you'll be amazed with what they can do and let you hear. and number one is, you have to enjoy what you play, hindi lang basta tugtog pera. passion is important kasi it reflects on your performance.
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: Diadem on March 07, 2007, 01:52:46 AM
Quote
ang ideals ko kasi is this: di bale nang hindi magaling ang band individually, pero kapag nagperform sila, you'll be amazed with what they can do and let you hear. and number one is, you have to enjoy what you play, hindi lang basta tugtog pera. passion is important kasi it reflects on your performance.
you guys are so correct.. MUAH!!!!
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: bangbus on March 07, 2007, 01:55:19 AM
About the image thing, i'm talking about those people na nagmamagaling na wala naman alam sa drumming na nagsasabing "Ay, rock ka ba? hindi mo ba alam ang fusion / progressive / jazz?" Tapos bigla ang baba ng tingin sa yo. Nakakaasar mga taong ganon diba?
ayyyy bro, the world is filled with those kind of close-minded morons, in all fields of activity, in all walks of life, dont let them get to you. nevertheless i find those types amusing and entertaining specially when they're really firm and convinced with their stand.
binibida lang nila comfort zone or 'product' nila. can they step out of it? maybe or maybe not. these are the sort of people who can't or have difficulties embracing change or innovation. it could be that they're basically afraid. kumbaga sa cellphone, nasa nokia communicator ka na, sila nasa easycall pagers pa rin.
and why step down to their level, as you said 'nagmamagaling na wala namang alam sa drumming'... if they can't bring it, shelve it. whats the use of keepin a conversation with those sort? don't waste your time. it's your passion, it's your craft. choose those who will influence you to do better, steer clear from those who will pull you down.
anyway dont let them get to you. isang araw makaka chamba din sya ng pikon, ayan gulpi ang abot nyan sigurado.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: tambuleros on March 07, 2007, 02:31:16 AM
tama yun bro dapat mutual yung mararamdaman mo as a player/musician at yung mga audience mo dba kc dba tau mga musikero sumtyms may togs tau na dnaten feel pero hataw naman tau sa porma in d end of our jobs tau din magsuffer , miting nanaman c band lider kc d masaya tugtugan ang mahalaga laging nasa ryt track tau feel mo at ng kabandmates mo pareho ang togs nyo at napapasayaw nyo mga tao , kumita ang bar , masaya lahat dedma na ang outfit dba pogi points nalang naten sa mga chikababes yan dba hehe!
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: rasta_gopz on March 07, 2007, 03:23:14 AM
ang daming ganyan sir naiinis din ako sa ganyan
yung bang pag tutugtug sila eh parang hindi banda parang ang gusto nilang sumikat mag isa, kung ano ano na ang sinasalpak d naman bagay sa kanta tulad nga ng sabi mo R&B na churva kung mag dopeds sa tingin ko d naman kailangan mag pasikat sa tugtugan para malaman ng tao na magaling ka wats important eh malinis at swabe ang kanta, be technical basta KAYA, MAGANDA , BAGAY at masasabayan ng kabanda mo hindi yung inaapakan mo na lahat hehehehe
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: mampupunit on March 07, 2007, 03:46:59 AM
alam niyo d lang nangyayare yan specifically sa drummers. nangyayare yan sa musikero in general. ang lungkot isipin na may mga klase ng tao na ganun mag isip.
hassle at degrading. pero nde na naten maaalis sa tao yung ganyan eh.
pinakamagandang pambawi diyan eh maipakita mong mas bukas ang isipan mo.
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: peeves24 on March 07, 2007, 08:24:59 AM
Take this for example, yung pinagse-sessionan ko na show band, sabi ng ibang members magaling daw yung drummer nila kasi nakakapag double-peds. pero as i was observing his grooves and chops. taken na magaling nga sya, pero what's the use of being super fast and putting dped notes on the songs kung wala naman sa ayos ang mga pinag-sisiksikan nya sa mga skills nya. example, irreplaceable ni beyonce, why the hell na may double peds pa dun na tugugugugugudug? it's an r&b song, pero bakit may heavy rock essence sya?
i dunno, it maybe insecurity, pero kung ganon na rin lang ang magiging development and discipline ko as a drummer, better stick to basics na lang ako. at least, yung essence ng kanta andun pa rin.
in my opinion, hindi naman kelangan ipagmayabang yung skills mo sa showband kung mali pa rin ang paglalagyan mo sa mga ito. meron pa rin yung mga taong ayaw marinig ang umpog ng dpeds.
anyone can share a light about this matter?
i can relate to what you're trying to say, talagang may mga ganung klaseng tao. i guess most of our friends here agree as well.
on the other hand, i would advise (unsolicited of course) not to compare yourself with them. kanya kanyang style sabi nga. some may like their style by putting ultra fast double bass in an R&B song and some like you or us may not. but try to be objective and not subjective. as what you've said, you don't know if its insecurity, but if you will compare yourself with them, it may sound like one.
pero paano yung mga taong prejudice na kapag rock drummer ka sasabihing laos ka? porke fusion sila or jazz or something....
it's a pity if they think that way and its a waste of time to entertain this kind of [gooey brown stuff].
just my 2 cents bro. :wink:
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: toybitz on March 07, 2007, 06:34:35 PM
most Pinoy musicians, mostly non-drummers, moreover mga spectator and listeners, tend to believe that drummers are good if they play busily and incorporate a lot of chops.
when the fallacy creeps inside the mind of Pinoydrummer...boom!
that's why I'm so amazed with Vinne.
In the studio, he's laid back. He grooves "creatively".
Then in live situations, he displays the chops but knows how limit it within the song.
Whew! Idol!
One of my fave uncredited drummers is found in Mike Francis' live album. Even his solo on Love A Day was simple yet busting with musicality...so "in" the song. Any idea who played?
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: toybitz on March 07, 2007, 06:39:59 PM
OT
with regards to the thread title, I thought it was based on the drummer's appearance.
Like, if you're a metal drummer,...you have to look like JP.
If you're an RnB drummer, you've got to look like Anthony.
If you're a sissy drummer, you've got to look like Bitoy. :-D
Title: Re: Do yo have to look like what you play?
Post by: zound_tech on March 07, 2007, 06:45:30 PM
hmmmmm..... parehas po siguro tayo,
kc dati ganun pa ko magisip pag pumapalo, parang competition, tapos narealize ko panget pala, tapos sinimplehan ko, at nasiyahan naman ako :lol:
pero, sabi sakin ang lamya ko daw pumalo... :-(
kc meron kaming mga drummer na napapanood na kahit simple lang eh anlakas ng dating... alam ko naman na di pa ko ganun kagaling at matututunan ko din yun, pero sa ngayon stick muna ko sa simpleng palo kesa madaming licks... sana makasama na ko sa eb para matuto naman! :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: lil.drummerboy on March 07, 2007, 07:50:43 PM
ayos ang thread na to. maraming salamat:) madami ako natutunan. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: Diadem on March 08, 2007, 02:31:07 AM
well bsta wag lng magpadala sa mga ganyang klaseng tao... yun lng... you dont to prove any ideas of proof that youre right or wrong... just proove it to yourself na mature ka ang you know what is best!!! :-)
About the image thing, i'm talking about those people na nagmamagaling na wala naman alam sa drumming na nagsasabing "Ay, rock ka ba? hindi mo ba alam ang fusion / progressive / jazz?" Tapos bigla ang baba ng tingin sa yo. Nakakaasar mga taong ganon diba?
ayyyy bro, the world is filled with those kind of close-minded morons, in all fields of activity, in all walks of life, dont let them get to you. nevertheless i find those types amusing and entertaining specially when they're really firm and convinced with their stand.
binibida lang nila comfort zone or 'product' nila. can they step out of it? maybe or maybe not. these are the sort of people who can't or have difficulties embracing change or innovation. it could be that they're basically afraid. kumbaga sa cellphone, nasa nokia communicator ka na, sila nasa easycall pagers pa rin.
and why step down to their level, as you said 'nagmamagaling na wala namang alam sa drumming'... if they can't bring it, shelve it. whats the use of keepin a conversation with those sort? don't waste your time. it's your passion, it's your craft. choose those who will influence you to do better, steer clear from those who will pull you down.
anyway dont let them get to you. isang araw makaka chamba din sya ng pikon, ayan gulpi ang abot nyan sigurado.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
self na kaya mo...
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: pyong_2 on March 08, 2007, 02:34:04 AM
about sa question na "Do you have to look like what you play?" ano ba appearance o papano ka magperform, kasi yung look di na importante kasi fashion na pinaguussapan or trend lalo na kung fashionista ka or paiba iba ng porma o kaya parang pag malamig dapat naka jacket pag mainit mag hubad ka kung maaari para lang maging komportable tayo. Yung performance siguro kailangan o mas ok kung akma sa music, nakakatulong pa sa tingin ko, if youre playing rock dapat rock ang galaw mo to help you sound rock, love song dapat kalmado ka di ba & so on & so on......hope na nakatulong ako...GodBless
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: daemonite on March 08, 2007, 02:57:24 AM
three parts ang topic na to
1. Description ng physical appearance natin - like kunwari si sensei jp, kapag tumugtog ng latin naninibago ang ibang tao. Parang stereotype eh, porke long hair dapat rock na.
2. Performance - Bakit kung minsan, porke rock ka, underrated ka like "Ay, di ka marunong ng fusion / progressive / jazz? (sabay isnab sa yo)
3. Performance part 2 - porke may dpeds ka, kelangan mo pasukan ang 1 line ng song na puro dpeds?
Yun lang po. Kasi nung nagdrum talk kami ni sensei jp, eto mga bumagabag sa utak ko. Andami ko agad napansin simula nung umuwi ako. hehehe. Sana mas maraming drum talk pa pagbalik ko ng manila sensei!
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: pyong_2 on March 08, 2007, 03:05:12 AM
i just wanna share dati noong nanood ako ng big band sa bodega, nakakwentuhan namin yung sir na percussionista galing magperform minsan siya pumapalit sa percussionista ni martin nieverra ng sabor latino, ang sabi sakin daig ng maporma ang magaling, but sinabi niya yun in a humble & honest way....tumatak yun sa isip ko.....
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: toybitz on March 08, 2007, 12:22:24 PM
1. Description ng physical appearance natin - like kunwari si sensei jp, kapag tumugtog ng latin naninibago ang ibang tao. Parang stereotype eh, porke long hair dapat rock na.
2. Performance - Bakit kung minsan, porke rock ka, underrated ka like "Ay, di ka marunong ng fusion / progressive / jazz? (sabay isnab sa yo)
3. Performance part 2 - porke may dpeds ka, kelangan mo pasukan ang 1 line ng song na puro dpeds?
Yun lang po. Kasi nung nagdrum talk kami ni sensei jp, eto mga bumagabag sa utak ko. Andami ko agad napansin simula nung umuwi ako. hehehe. Sana mas maraming drum talk pa pagbalik ko ng manila sensei!
just do your thing Bro.
my advise is listen to a lot of classic songs. songs that are popular because they're great songs...
there's quote that goes something like..."people remember the song and not what the drum parts."
you'll aslo notice that Ringo Starr is more popular than Thomas Lang.
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: pyong_2 on March 08, 2007, 02:56:30 PM
+ 100 points kay sir toybitz gaya ng payo sakin ng mga kuya, uncles and mga naging guide kong drummer if were working as a drummer entertainer it means were the who entertains the audience and maybe or if 80% whose listening to us is not a technical and gusto lang makarinig ng mga gusto nilang kanta dapat simplehan lang natin para makarelate sila and sa look naman kung tutugtog tayo ng beatles and ang approach natin ay mala kung sino pang technical na yan baka sa tingin pa nila tayong mga drummer ang nagkanda sabit sabit heheheh, dont be judge mental & respect to each other.......GodBless
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: lil.drummerboy on March 08, 2007, 05:42:23 PM
tama nga un. ung hindi masyado sosobra na pati ung kanta parang hindi na babagay sa palo ng drums. mas maganda ung tama lang. importante ung kalalabasan ng kanta. hindi ung puro lang pasikat katulad ng ibang drumer puro d peds at fills pero hindi na nababagay sa takbo ng kanta. :-D
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: meinldrummer on March 08, 2007, 07:07:28 PM
Sa looks part drummers are considered as artists and entertainers. Yun iba ngang bands may costumes pa like when you play abroad sa Disneyland or Las vegas kse it's part of the show. If you don't like costumes then might as well na just dress the way your band play. Like examples sa Rock and etc.
Sa music part dapat always play for the song.
Before I used to be insecure when I watched great drummers lalo na pag may kaback2back ako na magaling. But then again naisip ko na you should not be insecure at lalo ka pa dapat ma-inspire kse alam mo na yun drummer na yun eh nagprepare at nagpractice ng husto just to get to his/her level of playing.
Naisip ko rin na bakit ka maiinsecure eh we are all different and unique. Yun ang kagandahan at nakakatuwa sa pagdrums. We are all watching and dissecting the same drum videos, books, lessons yet we interpret and play it in our own unique manner thus may individuality pa rin.
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: Diadem on March 09, 2007, 12:16:05 AM
dped grooves in jay-z song check it out.. maganda ang come out nya sa song.. its R&B pero sarap ng dped groove nya
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: IncX on March 09, 2007, 11:18:49 AM
i have to agree with the one that said "pinoys are impressed with chops"
and as performers, sometimes you have to wake up the audience either by showing your chops or doing semi acrobatics ... this tends to excite majority of the listeners and hence they will enjoy the experience more. if you overplay though, your chops will become a normal thing for the spectators and you will end up achieving ego-erotification. and if you do too much acrobatics, you will end up messing the song and you will become a circus act or a dance group... depending on your physical appearance.
i guess you really have to consider that majority of the crowd will enjoy your performance, more than you think of what other musicians (drummers in this case) might say.
if you play cover songs... at least try to stand out from the other bands who can execute the song note for note. thats just my opinion though ...
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: intake on March 09, 2007, 07:29:41 PM
Do you have to look like what you play?
for me, NO! its not how you look....its how you play diba?
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: Bammbamm on March 10, 2007, 12:01:07 AM
Ok tong topic na 'to. Everyone has sensible opinions!
Sad to say, may kanya-kanyang standards/prejudices ang bawat tao. You can't please all the people all the time. Hindi lang naman sa pag d-drums me ganitong problema,kundi sa lahat ng bagay.
Isipin mo na lang na talagang maraming kontra-bida sa buhay, kasi IKAW ang bida :wink:
Daanin nlang sa inom yan! :lol:
Title: Re: Do you have to look like what you play?
Post by: intake on March 13, 2007, 06:29:43 PM
reminds me...
sabi nga ng teacher ko
"isa para sa masa, isa para sa mga musikero"
kailangan balanced...dapat may buhay, pero hindi dapat laging dinadaan sa show...
parang kotse...tignan mo yung Porsche Carrera GT, may SHOW na may GO pa! tama lang :lol: