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The Musician Forums => Pinoydrums => Topic started by: Bammbamm on June 05, 2007, 09:52:58 AM
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Hi guys, back to basics kasi ako ngayon; reviewing my grip techniques and everything; tanong ko lang kung meron ba sa inyong nagkaka paltos/kalyo sa kamay/daliri? Napansin ko kasi yung second joint ng index finger ko saka yung joint sa thumb medyo mas makapal yung balat,
I guess it has something to do with my wrong grip -or is there really a wrong grip?!? Natural lang ba 'to? Di naman masyadong masakit, dala lang siguro ng friction ng stick; pero kayo ba walang sign ng pag d-drum yung mga daliri nyo?
Also my right knee hurts sometimes. Ano ba ang pinaka comportableng seat height para sa specific foot technique ang effective para nyo; slightly lower,o higher ?
Thanks. :-)
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signs of aging perhaps? :-D
jok jok
same assumption tayo na pag nagpaltos e may maling ginagawa. i used to have blisters too and my hands fatigue in less than one hour before. fatigue is when your hands get numb and still feel the vibration of the stick even if you are not holding it. i did relearn my hand technique thru steve smith's video and have not experienced these problems since last year. wala na rin ako paltos kahit 5 hours of practice. i must be doing something right
but what works for me might not work for you. you do have to find your style. spend time in relearning your technique, its worth it
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:lol: !!
Thanks, Peeves. I guess I'll just try to learn different grip techniques.
So, nag m-moeller ka? What size/model of stick you're using?...eto nanaman ako... :-D
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mas importante yung "playing relaxed and letting the stick do all the work" na advise ni steve smith kahit matched grip ka lang. its more of mental conditioning than physical practice because you have to learn to use less muscles. the hardest part is to remember to play relaxed. moeller is nice but im not a technique geek, i do know how to do it but i tend to tense up using it so i go back to my regular habit
lazer 5a at yung lazer jazz na tig 70 per pair ang sticks ko hehehe
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Luckily, I don't get any blisters anymore. During my early years, lagi akong nagkaka-paltos. But I learned through my mistakes and experiences. I found methods which work best for my playing style.
Like what peeves said, I also do the "playing relaxed and letting the stick do all the work" advice of Steve Smith. I don't grip my sticks like a hammer. I cradle it. It's loose, but not to the point of dropping the sticks. I also play as relaxed as possible. I may sometimes look intense when I'm drumming. But I'm actually playing relaxed most of the time.
I also observe the Moeller technique, which I believe lessens the chances of possible injuries. Its motion allows me to play musically and more efficiently. It also allows me to do this whipping motion, which lets me play with the force and volume I need, without wasting so much energy. Path to least resistance, ika nga.
I also read a Neil Peart interview which mentioned that Neil isn't boxing with the drums anymore. Instead, he's dancing with it. The way I understand it, instead of playing through the drum, we should play over it. The surface of the drum or cymbal should be the "climax point" of our stick's motion, instead of letting our sticks pound through the drums and cymbals like hammering down a nail.
Besides letting the sticks do all the work, I also let the instruments do their work. For example, in most live situations, there's a sound system and the drumkit is often miked. So that means I don't need to play louder and harder anymore, because the mics and the sound system can help me with the amplification. Another example... When I have a gig which requires me to play in a high level of volume (rock, metal, etc.), I'll invest on instruments which are designed for louder musical situations. If I use a thin K Custom cymbal on a loud rock gig, that won't cut through layers of amplified guitars and bass, and I might end up breaking that cymbal because of abuse. But if I use a bigger and thicker cymbal like a medium-weight A Series or a Z Custom, that would cut through. And I don't have to pound it like there's no tomorrow. The instruments will do the work. And that means less physical effort for us, which leads to less chances of possible injury.
I hope what I shared can help. 8-)
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^^^^^ Yes, it helps. Thank you very much, Drumster, and Peeves.
What bothers me now is my grip. Because I play open-handed, I tend to change to different grips while playing particularly my left hand which I use on hats. I have noticed that my grip is not perfectly "matched". Iba yung sa left hand kasi nga yun yung sa hihat which is not exactly of the same height with the snare.
Anyways, thanks pa din. I'll research na lang din sa grips ng ibang open-handed players sa net.
God bless! :-)
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This topic really makes me think on the way I grip the stick or how use it. I guess i'll be trying different options on how to improve the way I grip and use the stick. "Playing the drums is like dancing", I like this, its true also. We really dont have to force it, just go with the flow... Thanks guys...
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Ako nagkakapaltos yung joint ng thumb ko. tska yung toe ko pag lagi akong naka paa. Kaya ngayon madalas na kong nag memejas...
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ako yung right arm ko parang gustong mag cramp kahit relax ang palo ko. wala naman akong binabago sa paraan pero sumasaket siya kahit "air drumming". last year ko simulang naramdaman to. nde rin nagbago yung size ng sticks ko. baket kaya?
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ang mostly na nakakalyo sa akin is yung middle joint ng middle finger ko. because of the finger technique sa video ni dave weckl. kahit na i grip tight the sticks, parating dun ang nakakalyo.....
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Bro,
remember to stretch those legs, yun circular motion for the knees
if you're a hard hitter, try wearing gloves.
while playing:
play in a relax manner, do not stiffen your arms and wrist, snap it
don't forget to breathe
drink water
Blessings!
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Hindi na rin ako nagkakakalyo o sugat sa kamay. Dati sa pinky ako madalas magkasugat, na naisip ko e senyas ng sobrang firm na grip. Medyo niluwagan ko ang hawak, ok na uli.
Ang pansin ko lang, 2-3 weeks ago dahil sa isang emergency, kinailangan ko bumili ng ibang model ng sticks. Nakuha ko e mabigat na weight. Pagkatapos ng gig may blister na yung index finger ko. Sa tingin ko may epekto rin yung bigat ng stick e. Kung di ka komportable sa stick mo, either ikaw ang mag-adjust o bumili ka ng mas bagay sayong size.
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Bro,
remember to stretch those legs, yun circular motion for the knees
if you're a hard hitter, try wearing gloves.
while playing:
play in a relax manner, do not stiffen your arms and wrist, snap it
don't forget to breathe
drink water
Blessings!
Thanks, bro Toybitz!
Sa tingin ko may epekto rin yung bigat ng stick e. Kung di ka komportable sa stick mo, either ikaw ang mag-adjust o bumili ka ng mas bagay sayong size.
Isa din yan sa dini discover ko, Gep.
Pag nagpapraktis kasi ako ng moeller technique gamit kong sticks yung evolution ni Dave Weckl o kaya yung Vic Firth na extreme nylon tip; mas mabigat sya at mas mahaba. Napansin ko na mas madali tumalbog pag medyo mabigat yung sticks. Problema lang yung ibang techniques gaya ng cross sticking na ginagawa ni Buddy Rich at Steve Smith, saka yung double-stroke roll na isang beat sa tom at isa sa snare.
I tend to grip a bit tighter pag ganun. Pag ginamitan ko naman ng mas manipis na stick (7A) ayaw naman tumalbog and worse nabibitiwan ko yung stick! .....siguro practice nlang talaga, ma dedevelop din sya unti unti ng walang sakit at paltos...o kaya try ko pa ibang model ng sticks.
Thanks to all of you guys!
God Bless! :-)
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Sir.. sa open hand technique mo po.. ito ang aking dilema..
when i play with my right hand on the hats.. ok lang..
pero pag open hand na.. medyo akward.. kasi iba na ung position
ng arms mo at ung layo.. kaya kakaloko.. i tend to position my
hats farther than my usual.. at nagadjusst lahat pati double pedal ko
para maadjust ung layo... ngayon mas comfortable na ko..
try adjusting ur set also para maayus niyo posture wise ung gusto niyo pong
outcome... sa blisters...
i use a marching stick na sobrang bigat pag real feel mode ako..
ayun! mga paltos.. nung una.. pero ngayon.. nasanay ung kamay ko..
ung mga lighter sticks na gamit ko doesn't give me blisters anymore...
dahil sobrang bigat nung stick e... hope this helps somehow...
nabasa ko din pala sa MD na ang paghawak sa stick e
imagine holding a bird... pag hinawakan mo xia ng sobrang higpit..
mamatay xia.. pero pag sobrang loose e lilipad.. so dapat nasa middle tayo
nung dalawang extremes na un. :mrgreen:
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baka masyadong mahigpit ang paghawak mo dude. malamang ang force ng palo mo comes from the thumb. dun naka-concentrate yung power. try holding your sticks in such a way that you are comfortable and yet efficient (hindi nakakapagod). wag naman masyadong relax at baka mabitawan mo dude. hope this helps. :-)
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Luckily, I don't get any blisters anymore. During my early years, lagi akong nagkaka-paltos. But I learned through my mistakes and experiences. I found methods which work best for my playing style.
Like what peeves said, I also do the "playing relaxed and letting the stick do all the work" advice of Steve Smith. I don't grip my sticks like a hammer. I cradle it. It's loose, but not to the point of dropping the sticks. I also play as relaxed as possible. I may sometimes look intense when I'm drumming. But I'm actually playing relaxed most of the time.
I also observe the Moeller technique, which I believe lessens the chances of possible injuries. Its motion allows me to play musically and more efficiently. It also allows me to do this whipping motion, which lets me play with the force and volume I need, without wasting so much energy. Path to least resistance, ika nga.
I also read a Neil Peart interview which mentioned that Neil isn't boxing with the drums anymore. Instead, he's dancing with it. The way I understand it, instead of playing through the drum, we should play over it. The surface of the drum or cymbal should be the "climax point" of our stick's motion, instead of letting our sticks pound through the drums and cymbals like hammering down a nail.
Besides letting the sticks do all the work, I also let the instruments do their work. For example, in most live situations, there's a sound system and the drumkit is often miked. So that means I don't need to play louder and harder anymore, because the mics and the sound system can help me with the amplification. Another example... When I have a gig which requires me to play in a high level of volume (rock, metal, etc.), I'll invest on instruments which are designed for louder musical situations. If I use a thin K Custom cymbal on a loud rock gig, that won't cut through layers of amplified guitars and bass, and I might end up breaking that cymbal because of abuse. But if I use a bigger and thicker cymbal like a medium-weight A Series or a Z Custom, that would cut through. And I don't have to pound it like there's no tomorrow. The instruments will do the work. And that means less physical effort for us, which leads to less chances of possible injury.
I hope what I shared can help. 8-)
Dude, what is the Moeller Technique. Please fill me in. Thanks man. :-)
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research mo si jim Chapin sa moeller technique..
it's a whipping stroke using ur wrist..
a wrist stroke at 2 bounces to prepare for the next motion of the whip..
basta mas maganda kung may vid...
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has anyone experienced or encountered injuries while playing drums or any drum related injuries? like nahulugan ng cymbal stand o napalo ng stick ang kamay or daliri, etc. at kung ano nangyari after. naalala ko before everytime i play drums, nagka cramps yung kamay ko, yun pala mali paghawak ko ng sticks at lagi ko pa natatamaan yung kamay ko, palaging nagkakapasa. share your thoughts and experiences kahit nakakatawa, hehehe!
meron na din ba tumigil magdrums dahil may chronic wrist/back/waist/hand/knee/hip or elbow problems?
paki-erase na lang kung meron na ganitong thread. thanks!
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ako???
- natatamaan ng sticks ang kamay
- minsan natatamaan ng sticks ung cap/forehead ko
- may time na tumama ang daliri sa pag rim shot!!! WAAAHHH!!! ang sakit sobra!!! (napapamura ako kapag ganun) :cry:
- natuluan ng pawis ung left eye ko!!! $#*% hapdi nun brader!!! (fast song kasi... nakapikit ung isang mata ko... buti nalang patapos na... ginawa ko, pumikit nalang ako para kunwari feel na feel ung palo pero sa totoo lang... ang sakit sakit na!!! hahaha... :x)
so far yan palang naman... at for sure madami pang mangyayaring sakit ng katawan... hahaha!!! kayo naman... share naman kayo jan!!! :mrgreen:
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namaga for 1 week yung smallest finger ng right foot ko. nabagsakan ng floor tom habang naglilinis
ako = [chewbacca]
lesson learned: wag na maglinis ng drums
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namaga for 1 week yung smallest finger ng right foot ko. nabagsakan ng floor tom habang naglilinis
ako = [chewbacca]
lesson learned: wag na maglinis ng drums
haha. onga. wag na maglinis ng drums. nakakasira ng paa. :-P
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i had muscle injuries sa kaka blast... na over worked without warming up...
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sumasakit wrist pag walang warm up. nung hindi ko din ma ayos setings ng pedal masyado malikot yung beater at tumatama sa paa ko. nagkaka sugat tuloy. ang sakit.
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ako dati sa double pedal ko nag prapractice ako nun tapos di pa ko marunong sa mga beater angle nun.. sobrang taas ng beater ko nun tapos nung pag ka tapak ko sa footboard e mabilis kasi nag prapractice palang ako mag double peds.. ayown PAK sapul ung gitna ng paa ko SOOPER SAKIT parang nakuryente ung paa ko nun tapos napa luha ako nun kasi talagang masakit.. ung tumama pala na beater ung beater ng gibraltar DB6611...
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same as peeves, nabitawan ko yung brass snare ko (note, medyo mabigat) i made a split second decision, imbis na hayaan kong bumagsak sa floor, pinangsalo ko yung left foot ko (it still hit the floor since i don't have opposable toes, pero mas softer na. parang it rolled down my foot na lang) astig diba? hehehe...
and, since then hindi na ata siya masyado gumaling kasi medyo sumasakit na siya pag tuloy-tuloy yung left foot ko sa hi-hats.
lesson learned = love your drums until it hurts.
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hmm..
- nahampas ko na ung finger ko
- calyo
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masakit na likod dulot ng pagrerearrange ng tambol
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same as peeves, nabitawan ko yung brass snare ko (note, medyo mabigat) i made a split second decision, imbis na hayaan kong bumagsak sa floor, pinangsalo ko yung left foot ko (it still hit the floor since i don't have opposable toes, pero mas softer na. parang it rolled down my foot na lang) astig diba? hehehe...
and, since then hindi na ata siya masyado gumaling kasi medyo sumasakit na siya pag tuloy-tuloy yung left foot ko sa hi-hats.
lesson learned = love your drums until it hurts.
ndi bale nang masakatan, wag lang masiraan... :-D :-D
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while performing ,nahulog ako sa stage dahil sa sobrang excitement :mrgreen:
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sa drum kit.
= paltos.
= tumama ung daliri sa rim
= nasugat dahil sa cymbals
sa pep band:
- paltos na napaltos na mapapaltusan pa ulit(mahina ang 2 sa isang kamay)
- muscle aches sa parehong braso.
- back aches (dahil sa posisyon ng katawan sa pagpalo ng bass)
- pasa sa parehong binti malapit sa groin. (kapag walang stand at nakastrap ang steel snare sayo)
- tumama ang daliri mo sa claw ng bass drum.
- panginginig ng kamay dahil sa tuloytuloy na pagpalo ng malakas.
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akomga sir madalas ako magkapaltos at maraming beses na ako nagkaka injury!! madalas rin sumakit ang likod ko!! Napaltosan na ako, Natamaan ko tenga ko, tumama yung hands ko sa rim ng snare at napilayan ako sa paa hai...
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are there any possible injuries that can occur because of playing?
you guys might want to share :-)
*Topic merged
-Moderator
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kalyo at paltos!
ngalay?
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kalyo at paltos!
ngalay?
paltos sa daliri! yun din madalas mangyari sa akin eh. how do you deal with it?
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di talaga maiwasan e. minsan nga natutuklap pa yung balat e. subukan mo mag gloves kung komportable ka. o kaya habang tumutugtog adjust mo yung hawak mo every now and then para hindi sa isang part lagi tumatama yung sticks
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siguro nga normal yun for hard hitters. i get blisters on 3 fingers in one hand. hassle nga yun minsan natuklap yung balat but still had to continue playing. aray!!! :-o
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oo naranasan ko na yun. 1st song palang natuklap agad yung balat. pero nung nangyari yun, nung mga sumunod extra careful na ko kasi ansakit talaga e. saka nagtry ako mag gloves pero since yung gloves ko e labas yung dulo ng daliri, hindi nga nagpaltos yung dati pero iba naman ang tinamaan. wala din.hehe
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CTS or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is something to be concerned about. I have come across several musicians suffering from this that needed to rest from instrument playing.
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CTS or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is something to be concerned about. I have came across several musicians suffering from this that needed to rest from instrument playing.
thanks mod for merging! :-)
does that mean you can't play anymore when you get CTS? hassle siguro when you get it from a non-drumming activity :-o
how can we avoid CTS from playing?
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pinag rest ako nang doctor from playing the drums for 6 months nung nagkaroon ako nang signs that may be leading to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome...buti na lang this happend during my college days...
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I no longer get any blisters due to playing now, pag nag kakapaltos parang iniisip ko wrong grip para sakin kasi sobrang gigil sa grip?
And dun sa post ni Akira
someone said before here in the forums (not sure who) that carbosticks helps lessen the chance of getting a carpal tunnel, lessens vibration kasi
what do you think guys?
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basically, when you talk about TCS, it is pften related to the compression of the median nerve on the wrist...i suppose proper technique would prevent us drummers on having this. But on worse case, surgery is required.
If not treated, could lead to muscle weakness and paralysis of the said extremity.
When we pound our drum, it is the wrist that accepts the rebound force vibrated to the upper extremities...To cut the chase, proper holding of sticks and positioning would not only preserve our body but also enhance our playing. :-D
About carbosticks...I haven't seen a study about this, but based on theory, TCS is acquired through compression and not vibration. :-)