TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Pinoydrums => Topic started by: bonbondotkom on May 22, 2008, 03:38:08 AM
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as in wala. ung bottom hoops. ano purpose nun?
Thanks!
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back in 70s and early 80s, some would take away that bottom head to avoid that "funky" tone.. if you notice old records, the toms would almost sound the same with other records.
Phil Collins didn't have the bottom head too. But if you look closely, you'll notice that his toms never did accommodate bottom heads,..there were no lugs at all!
at present, I'd still see a few drummers removing the bottom heads. especially drummers in church whose parents played in a band in the 70s. I asked them why they do it, and I simply got..."hindi ko alam...hahahaha!". :-)
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wow. Thanks for the info!
pag ganyan ang set mo, ok ba gamitin ung mga Remo ambassador heads kahit walang bottom head?
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Phil Collins didn't have the bottom head too. But if you look closely, you'll notice that his toms never did accommodate bottom heads,..there were no lugs at all!
That's right! And those single-headed toms are called concert toms.
From Wikipedia, under "tom-tom drum" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom-tom_drum):
"Single-headed tom-toms have also been used in drum kits, though their use has fallen off in popularity since the 1970s. Concert toms have a single head and a shell slightly shallower than the corresponding double-headed tom. Phil Collins still uses 4 singled headed rack mount toms and 2 floor toms (Gretsch) in his setup. He claims he tunes his toms to "bark" like a seal."
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ayos! very informative. Thanks a lot!
so is there a debate on which to choose, single headed tom? or two-headed toms?
what's the difference of both? what's the advantages and disadvantages of each?
Thanks thanks!
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depende sa taste mo
ako mas gusto ko double headed kasi mas malaki, mas malalim, mas bilog yung tunog na nakukuha ko sa kanila
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nice info :-D
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depende sa taste mo
ako mas gusto ko double headed kasi mas malaki, mas malalim, mas bilog yung tunog na nakukuha ko sa kanila
+1 mas maganda pa din talaga pag double headed.. pag concert toms kasi usually direcho labas agad tunog nya di muna mapapansin ung tunog talaga ng isang toms.. :-)
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without the bottom head it won't resonate.. magiging dry yung sound so para ka na lang pumapalo sa table top. i think its just a matter of preference kung ganong dry na sound ang gusto mo... more modern drummers now prefer both heads attached
the fun thing abut this is you can also play with the tightness of the heads... example, pwedeng magkaiba ng tension yung upper at lower heads...this gives you even more dimensions to choose from!
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Queen abused this technique quite well. :mrgreen:
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the korean drummer does not use the resonant heads too!
if a drum doesn't have a resonant head then it means that you can't make notes out of it right? here is the theory: dahil walang resonance, you will only get a single type of note. what do you think?
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That's right! And those single-headed toms are called concert toms.
From Wikipedia, under "tom-tom drum" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom-tom_drum):
"Single-headed tom-toms have also been used in drum kits, though their use has fallen off in popularity since the 1970s. Concert toms have a single head and a shell slightly shallower than the corresponding double-headed tom. Phil Collins still uses 4 singled headed rack mount toms and 2 floor toms (Gretsch) in his setup. He claims he tunes his toms to "bark" like a seal."
Nice sir. AD!
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pag walang botom heads the more na may pitch o definite note.parang roto toms, timpani etc. when i played with an ochestra before walang roto toms so tinanggal namin bottom head para ma tono into a definite pitch. pag 2 yung heads it means 2 yung nota so pano mo matotono ng sakto yun?
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pag walang botom heads the more na may pitch o definite note.parang roto toms, timpani etc. when i played with an ochestra before walang roto toms so tinanggal namin bottom head para ma tono into a definite pitch. pag 2 yung heads it means 2 yung nota so pano mo matotono ng sakto yun?
what? 2 nota pag 2 yung heads?
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you tune your top head and bottom head diba? so pag palo mo yung top head mag vivibrate tapos create ng nota diba? ngayun yung hangin travel sa bottom head mavivibrate din so create din ng pitch. so walang definite pitch with two heads. di ko lang sure kung i tono mo ng sakto at the same pitch yung 2 heads
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yung Tama Junior Kit namin dati sa iskul walang bottom heads ang toms pero ok sa tunog... solid
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nice dame ko na nman natutunan ngayon araw na ito.. hehe.. pwede na kong umuwe..
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pwede mo din gawin ito sa snare drum pre!
nakita ko sa setup ni keith cronin yung ganitong setup:
(http://www.keithcronin.com/drumkits/snare_02.jpg)
http://www.keithcronin.com/drumkits/microkit.html
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you tune your top head and bottom head diba? so pag palo mo yung top head mag vivibrate tapos create ng nota diba? ngayun yung hangin travel sa bottom head mavivibrate din so create din ng pitch. so walang definite pitch with two heads. di ko lang sure kung i tono mo ng sakto at the same pitch yung 2 heads
ahhh you mean pitch... kala ko kasi drum note.
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yes nota,may pitch :? if your talking about rhythm,kahit ilang milyong nota pwede. isa o dalawang head :-D
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yes nota,may pitch :? if your talking about rhythm,kahit ilang milyong nota pwede. isa o dalawang head :-D
ok sige nga... pag meron akong isang tom na may 1 head saang part of the scale ko siya ilalagay? if i have the same tom with 2 heads saang scale ko din siya ilalagay? may sample ka ba ng pyesa na may separate notation for a single head and a double head on the same instrument?
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I have an old 16" floor tom without bottom heads, hoops, and lugs. I tuned the batter head to the lowest possible tone - post wrinkle stage. I muffled the batter head using duct tape (about 3 inchesX 2 inches) to get rid of overtones.
***the more muffling you apply, the less overtones.
The result? I was surprised na mas malalim at mas bilog pa sa usual "complete" heads setup and tunog... I cannot conclude kung ganun talaga lagi ang result or tsamaba lang sa specific floor tom na gamit ko.
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gammapolaris ikaw bahala kung san part na scale mo ilagay.kung gusto mo itono mo kada kanta ok lang. triad,M7.minor chord,kahit jazz chords pwede din :roll: sa timpani pag 3 gamit mo usually ang tuning nya I,IV,V(tonic,sub dominant,dominant). what do you mean sample notation? as i said tuning is personal kahit sang nota mo itono kaw bahala. pag dalawang head gusto mo same pitch,tune bottom head M3 above, m2 below etc. experiment :-D
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ushuaia kahit saang part ng scale? hmm interesting concept...
I have two high toms... one with a single head and one with 2 heads... paano ko sila ididistinguish sa standard drum notation:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Drumkit_notation_drums.png)
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^ Drum notations do not follow the traditional ascending and descending order of notes. The notes just simply represent which drum or cymbal or percussion to play. :-)
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unang una pag gusto mo na may nota dapat hindi neutral clef gamit mo. walang pitch un. so ang tanong mo pano mo isusulat sa pyesa yung mga nota ng toms mo tama ba? baka ibig mo sabihin san part ng staff,hindi san part ng scale
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unang una pag gusto mo na may nota dapat hindi neutral clef gamit mo.
what? mukhang nasanay kang ma-mix ang salitang "nota" sa "pitch".
may nota naman sa drums kahit neutral clef ah....
my first lesson on drums was whole note, half note, quarter note... hindi ba nota yun?
baka ibig mo sabihin san part ng staff,hindi san part ng scale
if I remember correctly you told me:
"gammapolaris ikaw bahala kung san part na scale mo ilagay..."
so I assumed you were clear about the question sa "scale". I used the word "scale" to give "a measure of musical distance" since you are saying na may distance sa pitch ang single head at 2 head instrument.
ok, sige nga... if you want to be nazi about it, saang part ng staff? can you help kung papaano ididistinguish sa drum notation ang isang instrument na may single head at isa pang instrument na may dalawang heads:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Drumkit_notation_drums.png)
clearly, there should be a way to do this ng hindi lalabas sa neutral clef.
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ang sabi mo sang part ng scale,so i assumed alam mo sinasabi mo. scale means c major scale.minor scale etc.so sang part? pwede triads assuming 3 toms mo.chords etc. hindi staff. how can you even write a scale with a neutral clef? yes sinagot ko na yung tanong mo about "musical distance" diba nga triads,I IV V etc.isnt that musical distance? like you said? do you know the distance musically(not rhytmically)of the tonic to dominant etc? saka diba pinag uusapan naten pitch? pag tono? scale? e bat whole.half note etc sinasabi mo? thats rhytmic. linawin mo kasi tanong mo para malinawan ka din sa sagot. yung tanong mo bro eh simple lang naman ata. san ba nakalagay yung double head kung sa high tom di dun mo ilagay kung sa middle e di dun din. nasagot na ni drumster yan eh "the notes just simply represent which drum or cymbal or percussion to play" kung gsto mo ilagay mo high tom(single head) mid tom(double head) bass drum(with holes) floor tom(hanging) snare(24 strands)
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I like the idea that I could put the drum notes anywhere I want.. but to avoid confusion I just colored the single tom instrument RED. the positions of the notes on the neutral clef are pretty much standardized... plus it will be weird if you will see a kick drum note above the snare note (so I wouldn't do the rearrangement thing).
the red notes will represent a single head instrument. I will call this the gammapolaris notation of single headed instruments. this is useful if you have two instruments of the same size but different number of heads. very practical and easy to remember... think of the bioman: red one! (red = one head)
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Para sa mga Newbie...hwag kayo malito on how the this topic went into. Again ang pag tanggal ng bottom heads (reso) ay more on personal choice. If the sound na hanap mo is the likes of Phil Collins kit etc. Feel free to do that.
Pinaliwanag na ni Sir Drumster tungkol sa notation on staff.
Ushuaia is giving examples on how you can tune the intervals of the tom, (pitch wise).