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The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: deltaslim on August 01, 2010, 01:41:58 AM

Title: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: deltaslim on August 01, 2010, 01:41:58 AM
EDIT: Whoa, stickied na pala ito! Cool. But I wanna remind people I wrote this in order to promote peace and harmony in GC, so please don't use it to "cite examples", fingerpoint, or mang-blind item (tinangal ko na rin yung joke re "catering").  In true community fashion, we'll crowdsource good ideas and keep this updated; I'm sure there are many people out there smarter than me who have something to share.

Read it, then live it!  Peace!


-- SURVIVAL GUIDE TO GUITAR CENTRAL (based on real lessons learned) --

I thought it might help to summarize my personal Lessons Learned from years being part of this community and being personally involved in some, uhm, "trainwrecks" (not the amp, unfortunately). Some of these are mistakes I made and repeated. Some are mistakes many others keep repeating. I hope we all learn our lesson.

1. If we're talking about build setup, build quality, construction and craftsmanship, yes, one guitar can be better than another and it's possible to argue objectively on some empirical basis.

2. Money can buy you 'better' guitars in terms of quality of build, materials, component parts, craftsmanship, etc. (although better parts and materials does not necessarily ensure better tone). If you can't afford 'better' gear, tough luck, just deal with it. [Note: Money is also a function of time. If you're smart with your gear money and saved up for long enough, you can buy what you thought only the rich guys could buy. It takes discipline but it's possible.]. On the other hand, guitars sound like guitars. Improvements in guitar making/manufacturing technology, accessibility of that technology, and the law of diminishing returns ensures that decent quality guitars are more affordable and can take the issue of money off the table very quickly.

3.  If we're talking about guitar design (LPs vs Teles vs Strats vs Superstrats) and tone, well, they're all just different, one is not necessarily better than the other. Tone is subjective because we have different tastes and we all hear and appreciate tone differently. Any kind of tone can have a potential application in music. Hence, arguing which tone is better/worse is pointless.

4. Tone is the output of a whole system of inter-related and interacting parts and other related factors (don't forget the amp and player!) and its very difficult to assess individual components (e.g., a type of wood for body or neck, a pickup) independently and without proper context. However, guitar engineering/building know-how is constantly improving to allow for target tones to be achieved using a combination of wood, pickups, electronics, and appropriate construction techniques, etc. It is still not a perfect science, though. Outside of the guitar and amp, there's also a lot of tonal variability afforded by the player's flesh tone, right and left hand technique, and know-how in tweaking combinations of gtr+amp+pedals to interact and produce a desired tone. Hence, if you played thru SRVs gear, you may not sound exactly like SRV because you lack the flesh tone, technique, or know-how to work his gear.

5. If you really have to, when comparing tone, it has to be on "all things being equal"-terms. It's not even fair to ask a crappy player to play his great $$$ gear vs. a great player using cheap gear. When comparing components, all the other factors in the whole system should remain constant (e.g., change pus but not the guitar, amp, or player).

6. Tone is neither JUST in the fingers, nor is it JUST in the wallet. Both technique and nice gear help create good tone. Great technique and experience/knowledge can help overcome poor gear, but decent gear is a minimum. On the other hand, better gear can inspire good players to greater heights of creativity and technical accomplishment. "Tone is in the fingers vs. Tone is in the wallet" arguments betray ignorance and insecurity.

7. Asking someone to make a recording of his guitar and posting it on the internet is not the best way of judging that piece of gear.  If you're sincerely curious and interested in knowing the truth, try it yourself... in person... using your own hands and ears.  If you can't or you won't because your pride or shyness is in the way, don't whine cuz you have no first-hand knowledge to make a judgment. (Caveat: Very soon, however, recording and network technology will make it possible for most anyone to do hi-fi recordings and shared in lossless format over youtube, soundlick, myspace, fb, etc. Actually the technology is here now but access is limited to those w/ resources.)

8. When someone gives a review of his gear and insists it's the best ever guitar EVER, he has the right to his opinion and no amount of arguing, recording, testing, or tone shootouts will actually settle the issue. On the other hand, a simple opinion or review does not necessarily diminish the value of other people's gear to which it may have been compared (Source: Bart). However...

9. When someone makes a personal attack, puts down, or insults a fellow member, or questions their credibility, simply for disagreeing or sharing a contrary opinion, that is not cool and likely against the rules. Proper warnings/sanctions should be given immediately and applied consistently.

10. Although probably not a crime to a person or the community, faulting other people for not owning, not being able to afford expensive gear, or not having access to top gear experts/sources is bad form. In comparing gear, it's also poor taste to use direct language such as "your ABC won't stand against my XYZ" or "my ABC kills your XYZ". On the other hand, smarter and mature forumites would know to ignore these kinds of silly subjective statements (see rule #7). It's better to just say "it didn't work out for me and my setup", "not suited for my application", or "not my taste". In comparing gear, context is everything.

11. Don't let your ego or someone else's get in the way of your enjoying guitar on your own terms, not on someone else's. If you need someone else's -- whether other forumite's or top builder/gear expert's -- validation to enjoy your gear, you'll never be content and happy.  Remember that the primary aim of good gear and tone is to inspire YOU and make you play and sound good. The audience and any other person is just secondary.

12. After all is said and done, it's just guitar - is it really worth fighting over?  If it is, examine your life, values and priorities.
Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: haxo55 on August 01, 2010, 02:05:51 AM
maganda siguro kung masama sa sticky to,
para marami ring makabasa,
 
Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: arkeetar on August 01, 2010, 07:28:56 AM
sticky  :lol:

Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: Gunslinger on August 01, 2010, 07:55:05 AM
Good read.


sticky  :lol:

+1
Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: rolexm on August 01, 2010, 09:51:28 AM
Nice share.  :-)
Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: siore on August 01, 2010, 10:24:20 AM
Fair and balanced points.  I agree we should have this stickied, if mods are willing.  Then title it, "A guide to a harmonious GC living" or something...  :-)
Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: cayle on August 01, 2010, 01:22:34 PM
Well said sir. Sticky this please.  :-)
Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: Ben Tsing Co on August 01, 2010, 01:24:22 PM
sticky  :lol:



+100000  :-D
Title: Re: Lessons Learned...
Post by: deltaslim on August 01, 2010, 01:47:49 PM
Fair and balanced points.  I agree we should have this stickied, if mods are willing.  Then title it, "A guide to a harmonious GC living" or something...  :-)

You gave me an idea. I changed the thread title. :-)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: juan_portnoy on August 01, 2010, 01:55:42 PM
Yun! Pang sticky na yung tittle! Parang freshman guide sa mga university. IMO this will promote a culture of camaraderie and brotherhood to newbies and tenured ones alike. I like your message of going beyond the gear and the egos and just sticking with what really matters most which is enjoying music for what it's worth.

Mods! Motion to sticky the "Survival Guide to Guitar Central!  :-)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: Bart on August 01, 2010, 03:20:32 PM
Wow, Pareng Joric! This has got to be the first useful and insightful post here for the longest time. Thanks for putting those issues into a non-biased perspective. Thank you, thank you.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: dark_7 on August 01, 2010, 09:52:18 PM
Wow, Pareng Joric! This has got to be the first useful and insightful post here for the longest time. Thanks for putting those issues into a non-biased perspective. Thank you, thank you.
this.
sticky  :lol:


+1000 :-D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: shredmaestrobri on August 02, 2010, 01:24:22 AM
win 'to
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: jamming_papu on August 02, 2010, 01:41:12 AM
amen to all of that sir joric.

specially #5 and #6.
some people just have to be taught properly.


and yes, this is sticky worthy. :-D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: hedgehug_23 on August 02, 2010, 02:08:46 AM

(even if the former is paying for the catering! LOL.)


naalala ko to' hehe
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: Poundcake on August 02, 2010, 02:28:08 AM
I was thinking about writing something similar to this. Thank you, Joric! You're the man :)

I declare this thread stickied!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: siore on August 02, 2010, 03:08:10 AM
^^YES!!!  Thanks for the sticky!! :-) :-)

To add, one may love his piece of gear to high heavens, but on my part, what I've learned through a few years on here is to be careful with wording my posts so that owners of gear I don't like won't be [as] offended.  Instead of 'sucked', 'messed up design', 'ditch that pedal', 'why not just get a XXXX', etc... just say it didn't work out for you and your setup.  Wala namang masama dun, and does not reflect in any way on your playing experience.  Same deal I guess with positive comments.  Instead of saying 'the best', 'this kills the XXXX', or 'your XXXX won't stand against my XXXX', maybe just say it's different, and that it's more suited to your tastes and application?  Or you just plain like it.

A lot of guys on here, I've observed, are relatively peace-loving forum dwellers.  They come up with meaningful insightful posts, ignore the negativity, and tend to attract more thought-out replies.  Para saken, the rules are: 1) DON'T BE A JERK.  No matter how right you think you are, or if you feel info is wrongly conveyed. 2) IF IN DOUBT whether it'll cause angry reactions, don't post it.  3)  IF IT STARTS to piss you off, take a break!  Play yer guitar, buy a new piece of gear, build something, anything really.. just walk away from the forums for awhile 'til you get a cooler head.  :-D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: arkeetar on August 02, 2010, 03:52:03 AM
^^YES!!!  Thanks for the sticky!! :-) :-)

To add, one may love his piece of gear to high heavens, but on my part, what I've learned through a few years on here is to be careful with wording my posts so that owners of gear I don't like won't be [as] offended.  Instead of 'sucked', 'messed up design', 'ditch that pedal', 'why not just get a XXXX', etc... just say it didn't work out for you and your setup.  Wala namang masama dun, and does not reflect in any way on your playing experience.  Same deal I guess with positive comments.  Instead of saying 'the best', 'this kills the XXXX', or 'your XXXX won't stand against my XXXX', maybe just say it's different, and that it's more suited to your tastes and application?  Or you just plain like it.

A lot of guys on here, I've observed, are relatively peace-loving forum dwellers.  They come up with meaningful insightful posts, ignore the negativity, and tend to attract more thought-out replies.  Para saken, the rules are: 1) DON'T BE A JERK.  No matter how right you think you are, or if you feel info is wrongly conveyed. 2) IF IN DOUBT whether it'll cause angry reactions, don't post it.  3)  IF IT STARTS to piss you off, take a break!  Play yer guitar, buy a new piece of gear, build something, anything really.. just walk away from the forums for awhile 'til you get a cooler head.  :-D

yes! tamaan na sana ang tatamaan...
at sana maintindindihan...

read it again  :lol:

#6 and #10
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: siore on August 02, 2010, 04:14:15 AM
@arkee

:?  Hopefully that's not all you get out of that.  I don't like to fan the old flames, ok?  :-D  Wala akong pinapatamaan whatsoever.  Just a reminder for newcomers to our forums, who may fall into that trap, in their desire to get their points across. 
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: arkeetar on August 02, 2010, 04:22:36 AM
@arkee

:?  Hopefully that's not all you get out of that.  I don't like to fan the old flames, ok?  :-D  Wala akong pinapatamaan whatsoever.  Just a reminder for newcomers to our forums, who may fall into that trap, in their desire to get their points across. 

ah oo naman... in short, ethics  :lol:
emphasize ko lang, mahirap na din kasi yan, maraming gumagawa dito sa forum.  :lol:

Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on personal lessons learned)
Post by: deltaslim on August 02, 2010, 07:22:27 AM
... what I've learned through a few years on here is to be careful with wording my posts so that owners of gear I don't like won't be [as] offended.  Instead of 'sucked', 'messed up design', 'ditch that pedal', 'why not just get a XXXX', etc... just say it didn't work out for you and your setup.  Wala namang masama dun, and does not reflect in any way on your playing experience.  Same deal I guess with positive comments.  Instead of saying 'the best', 'this kills the XXXX', or 'your XXXX won't stand against my XXXX', maybe just say it's different, and that it's more suited to your tastes and application?  Or you just plain like it.

Good point and this is actually a corollary of one of the lessons. Dinagdag ko na. Thanks
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: juan_portnoy on August 02, 2010, 08:40:25 AM
Yun! Stickied na!

siore: Very well said papi. Positive phrasing goes a long long way here in PM. Ika nga sa isa pang forum site - "You are what you post" hehe.  :-)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: Poundcake on August 02, 2010, 09:58:11 AM
Hay naku. Sakit yan ng karamihan dito kasi. The infamous gear wars. There will come a time when one will ultimately say, "Screw GAS, I just wanna play!" because as much as we love guitar equipment (I used to be one of the biggest boutique freaks here), it won't matter much if we don't start using our gear to play music that is meaningful to us. But on the other hand, we need at least decent to good sounding equipment to be able to convey our musical messages with enough clarity.

May this guide lessen the equipment-related wars here! Please lang! Hehe :)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: maxi_musikero on August 02, 2010, 10:18:57 AM
solid points Joric!  obviously can only be gathered thru years of experience and being active in the GC community.   :-D

definitely agree with the points on tone, in that it is ear and preference-dependent, and not wallet-dependent.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: shredmaestrobri on August 02, 2010, 10:24:01 AM
Hay naku. Sakit yan ng karamihan dito kasi. The infamous gear wars. There will come a time when one will ultimately say, "Screw GAS, I just wanna play!" because as much as we love guitar equipment (I used to be one of the biggest boutique freaks here), it won't matter much if we don't start using our gear to play music that is meaningful to us. But on the other hand, we need at least decent to good sounding equipment to be able to convey our musical messages with enough clarity.

May this guide lessen the equipment-related wars here! Please lang! Hehe :)

you got it mod! thumbs up!

even john suhr said that most tone issues are solved with good technique or practice. something along that line.

kung guitarist a vs. guitarist b argument wala na ngang nangyayari equipment pa kaya!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: deltaslim on August 02, 2010, 11:44:08 AM
Hay naku. Sakit yan ng karamihan dito kasi. The infamous gear wars. There will come a time when one will ultimately say, "Screw GAS, I just wanna play!" because as much as we love guitar equipment (I used to be one of the biggest boutique freaks here), it won't matter much if we don't start using our gear to play music that is meaningful to us. But on the other hand, we need at least decent to good sounding equipment to be able to convey our musical messages with enough clarity.

May this guide lessen the equipment-related wars here! Please lang! Hehe :)

Yeah. I love music more than I love gear. As long as you have decent gear, it's all just supposed to be fun, not a race or competition against others. If I'm gonna buy gear that's worth more than the car I carry it in, I better be the best damn guitar player that my wife will ever see! LOL. But I'm not so I just try to be the best version of myself. ;-)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: Bart on August 02, 2010, 12:34:07 PM
If I'm gonna buy gear that's worth more than the car I carry it in, I better be the best damn guitar player that my wife will ever see! LOL.

Naw, man. Where's the fun in that?  :lol:
Me, I'm just compensating my guitardedness with nice gear.  :lol: But I promise myself that I'll spend more time woodshedding and try to stick with it. Promise.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: shredmaestrobri on August 02, 2010, 12:43:56 PM
Yeah. I love music more than I love gear. As long as you have decent gear, it's all just supposed to be fun, not a race or competition against others. If I'm gonna buy gear that's worth more than the car I carry it in, I better be the best damn guitar player that my wife will ever see! LOL. But I'm not so I just try to be the best version of myself. ;-)

Agreed! Masarap talaga in the end kapag yung gear mo nacacapture ung musical ideas and passion mo within and it's brought forth into existence! But again, dapat you have musical ideas and passion from the start and the intention of bringing those into reality which the gear will enhance.

Masarap talaga mag-Gas pero I find more inspiration when I experience musical and technical improvement by the second. No gear acquisition can beat that. At least for my purposes as an artist. It is more fulfilling and lasting. Then comes the gear that will provide better delivery.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: rednas on August 03, 2010, 11:21:01 AM
Nice guide.  And you might like to add that people should not easily be offended when people comment about technique, guitars, gears or their idols.  I for one once were easily offended :lol:.  We might blurt out unwanted and unwarranted posts just because we think a comment is an attack when upon better inspection it is not. 
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: Letour on August 06, 2010, 09:35:05 AM
Idol, you are the man.

Wish I could nominate you for the Supreme Court. But you have to be a lawyer... Wait, it's still not too late. One of my best students is a 50 year old principal at a public elementary school. She performed very well at the law school where I teach.

Congrats on the sticky.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: v00doochi1d on August 07, 2010, 07:29:59 AM
amen to that blues bruddah bossing!!!!  congrats din sa sticky!! blow out naman dyan!!! jowk hehehehe.. pero right is the correct yan ha.. let der be peace and harmony and kindness and happiness to everyone dito sa forum!!!! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: william251082 on August 07, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
Nice guide.  And you might like to add that people should not easily be offended when people comment about technique, guitars, gears or their idols.  I for one once were easily offended :lol:.  We might blurt out unwanted and unwarranted posts just because we think a comment is an attack when upon better inspection it is not. 
+999
Huwag masyadong maging pusong mamon. :lol:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on August 09, 2010, 10:49:53 PM
Mga sir , naisama na ba sa survival guide ang "never ever badmouth a guitar god/hero unless you are ready for his lightning bolts as in wag mong iinsultuhin si joe satriani o steve vai tatamaan ka ng kidlat"...hehehehe...suggestion lang
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: lolwat on August 10, 2010, 12:07:51 AM
Sa akin lang, research first before posting anything and stating them as "facts."
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: mrbrownstone on August 10, 2010, 12:54:19 PM
good points sir joric, this thread made me realize how much practice im missing nowadays..well then, back to the woodshed :-D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: mike_hd on August 20, 2010, 04:48:33 AM

9. When someone makes a personal attack, puts down, or insults a fellow member, or questions their credibility, simply for disagreeing or sharing a contrary opinion, that is not cool and likely against the rules. Proper warnings/sanctions should be given immediately and applied consistently.


question lang, how about the ones who just makes fun of the thread? people who just makes fun of newbies/threads and make posts that instead of helping out someone, they just directly make fun of them? a lot of them are the members who have been here a long time with 1000+ posts  :-) i met some forumers here when trading and such, they really say na palakasan dito  :-)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: jamming_papu on August 22, 2010, 01:04:13 AM
Mga sir , naisama na ba sa survival guide ang "never ever badmouth a guitar god/hero unless you are ready for his lightning bolts as in wag mong iinsultuhin si joe satriani o steve vai tatamaan ka ng kidlat"...hehehehe...suggestion lang


he who does such should be ready to face thy consequences ... lol  :lol:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: spetsnaz1123 on August 22, 2010, 10:46:51 PM
question lang, how about the ones who just makes fun of the thread? people who just makes fun of newbies/threads and make posts that instead of helping out someone, they just directly make fun of them? a lot of them are the members who have been here a long time with 1000+ posts  :-) i met some forumers here when trading and such, they really say na palakasan dito  :-)

OK lang siguro yung kaunting patawa para medyo interesting yung thread kasi minsan talagang merong mga tanong especially tayong mga newbie na medyo nonsense kaya nagiging target tayo ng pangaalaska kaya dapat medyo open-minded tayo. Ang hindi maganda yung mga offensive at sobra nang panglalait at mga name calling na di na kanaisnais.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: markv on August 28, 2010, 01:48:53 AM
^ tama tama. Increase sarcasm detector para walang pikunan.

Madalas kasi ganito eh:


Cannot detect sarcasm:
Abort, retry, fail?



FAIL! :D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: toybitz on September 01, 2010, 02:02:51 AM
Delta is Slimfucius...and I am his disciple...

Detlaslim...mah master... *bow*.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: ermonski on September 01, 2010, 02:10:51 AM
you can insult guitarists here i nthere, but one thing's for sure, there is no better guitarist than Chuck Norris.

for he can kill two picks with one note.

when he plays guitar he doesn't pick the note, the note itself plays upon Chuck Norris' presence.

when Chuck Norris plays the guitar, he doesn't need scales and picking to shred. His bare hands turn guitars into sawdust.

on his birthday, Chuck Norris chooses one lucky guitarist to be thrown into the sun.

Chuck Norris once put a turtle inside a blender, we now know the turtle's fragments as Tortex picks.

Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: fishtank_28 on September 16, 2010, 12:17:35 PM
[apple] ang tatalino nyo mga bro..I agree! hehehe

gas gas pa concentrate on playing..peace!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: gyrome on September 21, 2010, 04:01:16 PM
Yeah. I love music more than I love gear. As long as you have decent gear, it's all just supposed to be fun, not a race or competition against others. If I'm gonna buy gear that's worth more than the car I carry it in, I better be the best damn guitar player that my wife will ever see! LOL. But I'm not so I just try to be the best version of myself. ;-)
[/quote]

sir your words inspired me a lot..
good read.. :-)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: pendongpeace on October 02, 2010, 10:46:31 AM
galing..well said lahat =)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: philaxeman on October 10, 2010, 02:07:13 PM
Bookmarked...Words of Wisdom..
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: sireus on October 11, 2010, 09:41:28 AM
once in a while we should take time to read and re-read this so we shall always be reminded...
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: ermonski on October 14, 2010, 04:12:28 AM
I think everyone will agree on what I will type here, and this not only applies to GC but to the entire Philmusic world:

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

huwag patulan at huwag pag-aksayahan ng oras, you do have lives outside the internet, right?
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: maxi_musikero on October 18, 2010, 04:20:12 PM
just to reinforce deltaslim's post.  pansin ko ang dadami nanaman mga "pa-help naman" threads running around GC.  :lol:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: deltaslim on October 19, 2010, 03:58:02 PM
I updated our "knowledge base" a little, check #1 to 3 but especially #4.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on real lessons learned)
Post by: sireus on October 22, 2010, 02:05:42 PM
exactly!!!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: colorless krayola on November 26, 2010, 03:19:04 AM
Good read. I heard seryoso 'tong thread na 'to. Ba't may parang...
Anyways, thanks for posting this. ;)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: deltaslim on December 08, 2010, 06:14:57 PM
Words of wisdom from TDPRI:

"A note to remind some posters in this thread that all you know is your opinion on this subject. And, if you want to quote other builders and such as proof then I'll say that all they have is their opinions, too. This is a subjective subject and there are not absolutes. Your opinion on the subject is not a FACT.

So, state YOUR opinions but don't try to belittle others for having a differing opinion. OK?"
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: orangedreg_2 on December 12, 2010, 08:37:26 AM
Darrel likes this!:)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: jocobalb on February 16, 2011, 09:41:56 AM
dapat me like clickable parang fb . haha !! kudos for this !! sana basahin din ng iba kasi kahit sticky thread to ngayon ko lang nabasa hehe. galing .
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: glasgowkizz on February 16, 2011, 08:16:40 PM
+100
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: tsunamic on February 19, 2011, 12:57:49 AM
unang basa ko dito andun pa yung mga patama na jokes eh. hehe. buti updated na. Guide na lang talaga to para sa newbies at para narin sa regular members na rin na kaylangan pa ng gabay. hehe. sana lang talaga basahin din lahat muna ng mga bago yung sticky posts para naman may karga na agad silang gabay. minsan kasi pang bentahan na lang din talaga tong philmusic para sa mga nagreregister eh. :)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: firemodel55 on March 01, 2011, 01:51:06 PM
EDIT: Whoa, stickied na pala ito! Cool. But I wanna remind people I wrote this in order to promote peace and harmony in GC, so please don't use it to "cite examples", fingerpoint, or mang-blind item (tinangal ko na rin yung joke re "catering").  In true community fashion, we'll crowdsource good ideas and keep this updated; I'm sure there are many people out there smarter than me who have something to share.

Read it, then live it!  Peace!

(Just wanted to add my two cents to provide an enhanced experience but I really like what Deltaslim has said...)

-- SURVIVAL GUIDE TO GUITAR CENTRAL (based on real lessons learned) --

I thought it might help to summarize my personal Lessons Learned from years being part of this community and being personally involved in some, uhm, "trainwrecks" (not the amp, unfortunately). Some of these are mistakes I made and repeated. Some are mistakes many others keep repeating. I hope we all learn our lesson.

1. If we're talking about build setup, build quality, construction and craftsmanship, yes, one guitar can be better than another and it's possible to argue objectively on some empirical basis. (Sometimes, it does not have to be even empirical -- just use your ears and your eyes. Even the most complex measuring machines made cannot beat the ear and the heart.  This was a point made clear by the Tonequest Report.)

2. Money can buy you 'better' guitars in terms of quality of build, materials, component parts, craftsmanship, etc. (although better parts and materials does not necessarily ensure better tone). If you can't afford 'better' gear, tough luck; just deal with it. On the other hand, guitars sound like guitars. Improvements in guitar making/manufacturing technology, accessibility of that technology, and the law of diminishing returns ensures that decent quality guitars are more affordable and can take the issue of money off the table very quickly. (In addition, if you can't afford 'better' gear, stop cycling thru other bad sounding gear and save up for better gear. Really, some guitars sound better than others.  Despite more affordable and decent guitars, the general standards of mass produced guitars have really gone down -- cheap woods, shoddy electronics, thick paint, etc. If you compare an 'affordable' guitar in the 50s and 60s compared to an affordable guitar today, you were getting more yesterday.  On the other hand, the more expensive guitars today are pushing the differences versus the more decent guitars today e.g. guitar wood, different shapes, custom colors, thinner finish, custom pickups, better pots, better warranties and even better guitar cases, etc. Good use of new technology for example is the use of PLEK which is not yet offered on cheap guitars.  In short the high end guitar of today, is giving more than the high end guitar of yesterday.)

3.  If we're talking about guitar design (LPs vs Teles vs Strats vs Superstrats) and tone, well, they're all just different, one is not necessarily better than the other. Tone is subjective because we have different tastes and we all hear and appreciate tone differently. Any kind of tone can have a potential application in music. Hence, arguing which tone is better/worse is pointless. (Sometimes, though a Bad sounding Les Paul will never beat a Good Sounding Strat or vice versa or even a Great Sounding Super Strat will beat bad sounding Strats, bad sounding Les Pauls, and bad sounding Teles for any style of music.)

4. Tone is the output of a whole system of inter-related and interacting parts and other related factors (don't forget the amp and player!) and its very difficult to assess individual components (e.g., a type of wood for body or neck, a pickup) independently and without proper context. However, guitar engineering/building know-how is constantly improving to allow for target tones to be achieved using a combination of wood, pickups, electronics, and appropriate construction techniques, etc. It is still not a perfect science, though. Outside of the guitar and amp, there's also a lot of tonal variability afforded by the player's flesh tone, right and left hand technique, and know-how in tweaking combinations of gtr+amp+pedals to interact and produce a desired tone. Hence, if you played thru SRVs gear, you may not sound exactly like SRV because you lack the flesh tone, technique, or know-how to work his gear. (Agree a lot, but in the case if you had better sounding gear... SRV might have preferred to use your gear rather than his. Remember the statement of Renee Martinez when he first met SRV? He said: "Your tone sucks."  And immediately, SRV hired him to be his tech.)

5. If you really have to, when comparing tone, it has to be on "all things being equal"-terms. It's not even fair to ask a crappy player to play his great $$$ gear vs. a great player using cheap gear. When comparing components, all the other factors in the whole system should remain constant (e.g., change pus but not the guitar, amp, or player). (Agree... except that we have to factor in another concept called multivariate analysis.  Though it is an accepted scientific principal to only adjust one variable at a time, when it comes to gear, I learned that there is another dimension i.e. when two or more factors suddenly sound magical because of their unique combination. In a real life example that I and my friend Arie had was that the Klon Centaur did not sound good thru the amps that we had tested it through.  Years later, I learned that the designer meant the Klon Centaur was meant to be used on a Fender Deluxe Reverb.  We both realized that we did not give the Klon a correct audition thru a blackface deluxe reverb because we did not have it at all.)

6. Tone is neither JUST in the fingers, nor is it JUST in the wallet. Both technique and nice gear help create good tone. Great technique and experience/knowledge can help overcome poor gear, but decent gear is a minimum. On the other hand, better gear can inspire good players to greater heights of creativity and technical accomplishment. "Tone is in the fingers vs. Tone is in the wallet" arguments betray ignorance and insecurity. (Agree.  Though for general audiences, tone is better appreciated than technique.  I mean I would think that it would be sacrilege for me to pay for an expensive Mr. Big VIP ticket and only to hear Paul Gilbert use a Behringer --that would just sound bad. In the same way, I would prefer to listen to Kurt Cobain's guitars than that Chinese protege pianist who is just so overrated.)

7. Asking someone to make a recording of his guitar and posting it on the internet is not the best way of judging that piece of gear.  If you're sincerely curious and interested in knowing the truth, try it yourself... in person... using your own hands and ears.  If you can't or you won't because your pride or shyness is in the way, don't whine cuz you have no first-hand knowledge to make a judgment. (Caveat: Very soon, however, recording and network technology will make it possible for most anyone to do hi-fi recordings and shared in lossless format over youtube, soundlick, myspace, fb, etc. Actually the technology is here now but access is limited to those w/ resources.) (Agree so much but I really doubt that lossless formats will get any better .... SACD and DVD Audio have been around and proven to be superior formats yet they have never been replicated by any lossless format. If anything, most audiophiles and surprisingly new releases are coming out on vinyl. Definitely, lossless will never replace the warmth of vinyl.)

8. When someone gives a review of his gear and insists it's the best ever guitar EVER, he has the right to his opinion and no amount of arguing, recording, testing, or tone shootouts will actually settle the issue. On the other hand, a simple opinion or review does not necessarily diminish the value of other people's gear to which it may have been compared (Source: Bart). However... (Some people have better ears and therefore some opinions are better than others. Its better for you to admit that you have a lousy sounding guitar NOW than having to go thru life deceiving yourself that your guitar is not lousy. Its called maturity.)

9. When someone makes a personal attack, puts down, or insults a fellow member, or questions their credibility, simply for disagreeing or sharing a contrary opinion, that is not cool and likely against the rules. Proper warnings/sanctions should be given immediately and applied consistently. (Agree... but some people are so wrong or so f*cked up that they need a PUT DOWN. So, its case to case...)

10. Although probably not a crime to a person or the community, faulting other people for not owning, not being able to afford expensive gear, or not having access to top gear experts/sources is bad form. In comparing gear, it's also poor taste to use direct language such as "your ABC won't stand against my XYZ" or "my ABC kills your XYZ". On the other hand, smarter and mature forumites would know to ignore these kinds of silly subjective statements (see rule #7). It's better to just say "it didn't work out for me and my setup", "not suited for my application", or "not my taste". In comparing gear, context is everything. (Some context are better than others, the Ultrasound Rehearsal Studio A in New York is a much much better context than the Behringer or Lazer Showroom in Ali Mall on ANY level or on ANY Objective.)

11. Don't let your ego or someone else's get in the way of your enjoying guitar on your own terms, not on someone else's. If you need someone else's -- whether other forumite's or top builder/gear expert's -- validation to enjoy your gear, you'll never be content and happy. (Agree that's why we should stop or minimize reading guitar central on Philmusic!)

12. After all is said and done, it's just guitar - is it really worth fighting over?  If it is, examine your life, values and priorities. (Yes... at times specially if somebody claims that their P10k piece of crap is equal to your US10k piece of crap. :) )
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: boybangs on March 01, 2011, 03:15:03 PM


 :?
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: teleclem on March 01, 2011, 09:25:23 PM
"In addition, if you can't afford 'better' gear, stop cycling thru other bad sounding gear and save up for better gear."

Gotta agree with that. Money can actually be saved that way since at a loss kadalan yung sales.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: analog.matt on March 14, 2011, 09:59:05 AM
yes i agree with whoever wrote that line. if i can't afford better gear, then humanap ng paraan. kung wala, ipon muna. kung wala, be happy with what i/we have.

but at least these "better" things, give direction, what to get in the future, what to look forward to. (provided that you will have the same taste when that moment comes)

T na lang ako kung magpapa-apekto pa ako. walang maibibigay na maganda ang inggit o inis.

In life, in any aspect, there will always be something better.

as far as budget is concerned naman, maganda na din may awareness tayo, para mamaximize or optimize yung amount na kaya lang natin mainvest. kaya maganda na din na may nagshashare.

**

kung tinawag ka na pangit. magagalit ka ba kung alam mong hindi.


Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: erniebong on April 12, 2011, 02:26:58 PM
Galing! well said....

Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: paquitz on June 06, 2011, 06:12:39 AM
Nice read  :-D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: tintoretto on August 02, 2011, 06:18:19 AM
TAMA!!! :-D :-D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: afterlife on December 28, 2011, 04:02:05 PM
+1  :)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: jgaluno on January 18, 2012, 01:31:26 PM
many can relate to this thread. +10 to the author.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: Nova Strike on March 05, 2012, 02:33:04 PM
Yung #9, it should be practiced talaga. A lot of misunderstanding here eh..  :-(
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: rtf_axeman on May 03, 2012, 08:11:00 AM
i should have seen this thread sooner  :lol:

BUMP!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: kernelsalonpas on May 31, 2012, 10:14:41 AM
edited.. GC needs its villains.. come back guys!!!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: freemansj on June 19, 2012, 03:05:35 PM
edited.. GC needs its villains.. come back guys!!!

And who are these villains?!   :lol:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: jamming_papu on June 24, 2012, 01:51:45 AM
villains? i don't think so. they are just forumites that pwn ignorant posers.  :-P
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: markezekiel on July 17, 2012, 01:23:14 PM
must read thread.

 :) :)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: 09thfret on July 20, 2012, 08:45:26 PM
 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: deltaslim on August 16, 2012, 04:16:41 AM
Hi guys, I'm glad this thread has been useful to you. I sometimes find myself thinking about how to improve it.

I added some points to existing points, highlighted in blue below:

2. Money can buy you 'better' guitars in terms of quality of build, materials, component parts, craftsmanship, etc. (although better parts and materials does not necessarily ensure better tone). If you can't afford 'better' gear, tough luck, just deal with it. [Note: Money is also a function of time. If you're smart with your gear money and saved up for long enough, you can buy what you thought only the rich guys could buy. It takes discipline but it's possible.]. On the other hand, guitars sound like guitars. Improvements in guitar making/manufacturing technology, accessibility of that technology, and the law of diminishing returns ensures that decent quality guitars are more affordable and can take the issue of money off the table very quickly.

... and

11. Don't let your ego or someone else's get in the way of your enjoying guitar on your own terms, not on someone else's. If you need someone else's -- whether other forumite's or top builder/gear expert's -- validation to enjoy your gear, you'll never be content and happy.  Remember that the primary aim of good gear and tone is to inspire YOU and make you play and sound good. The audience and any other person is just secondary.


Hope this is useful.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: jjgalvan on November 08, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
nice  :-D
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: fretboard on January 30, 2013, 09:03:17 AM
ngayon ko lang nabasa to!
 :)
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: FollowTheReaper on February 11, 2013, 02:20:00 PM
good read!!!

btw, gusto ko lang mag sorry kay Nepenthe.

di ko alam kung naaalala niya pa (late 2011) pero nagkaroon kami ng away at [gooey brown stuff]-slinging sa isang similar forum. ito rin username ko dun.

peace sa lahat hehe :wave:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: rtf_axeman on February 12, 2013, 01:57:09 AM
good read!!!

btw, gusto ko lang mag sorry kay Nepenthe.

di ko alam kung naaalala niya pa (late 2011) pero nagkaroon kami ng away at [gooey brown stuff]-slinging sa isang similar forum. ito rin username ko dun.

peace sa lahat hehe :wave:

lahat naman inaaway nun eh! haha joke lang  :lol: :lol: :lol:

mabait yun si Lakan, masipag pa sa gawaing bahay. haha!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: freemansj on February 12, 2013, 07:07:14 AM
lahat naman inaaway nun eh! haha joke lang  :lol: :lol: :lol:

mabait yun si Lakan, masipag pa sa gawaing bahay. haha!

 :lol: :-P :lol: :-P :lol:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: gandydancer123 on May 09, 2013, 06:21:41 PM
Ok si Lakan, mabait siya at maayos kausap in person......sa internet lang kala mo maangas..hehe....kaya usually wag masyado magpadala sa internet personalities....unless mga jologs at mga masa yung utak ng kausap mo..yon sigurado..kung gaano sila kaignorante sa net ganun din sila in person...
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: joel_marcelo on May 14, 2013, 03:48:26 AM
Ok si Lakan, mabait siya at maayos kausap in person......sa internet lang kala mo maangas..hehe....kaya usually wag masyado magpadala sa internet personalities....unless mga jologs at mga masa yung utak ng kausap mo..yon sigurado..kung gaano sila kaignorante sa net ganun din sila in person...
So far naman medyo maaayos kausap mga naka-deal ko dito sa philmusic at naging mga online friends ko pa. Usually kasi yung mga jologs hindi nagtatagal lalo na sa Guitar Central.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: kernelsalonpas on May 14, 2013, 11:17:55 AM
si Lakan... mahilig yan....





tumugtog. shempre philmusic eh.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: kym005 on May 19, 2013, 12:55:50 AM
Ang tagal ko na sa PM ngayon ko lang nabasa to.  :)

Definitely a good read. Good job TS.   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: WarmMachine09 on June 14, 2013, 01:42:04 PM
mismo to!  :) daming matututunan lalo na sa mga di pa bukas na isip na mga musicians. kudos!
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: fretboard on March 11, 2014, 11:00:03 AM
daming jologs  :-D
wag pansinin
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: siore on May 18, 2014, 02:15:39 AM
Speaking from my philmusic experience lately... I don't post so much these days. I don't know if it's work, family, and other priorities, but I don't get the usual GAS pangs anymore, despite the enthusiasm of everyone with their new toys.  I also tend to get bored with the usual flame wars of gear and ideas of tone, so I stay out of those threads (but I browse thru them as one would browse old magazines.. Nice to remind oneself the usual sentiments, but not worth losing sleep over if the consensus is typically wrong IMO).. It's easier now for me to brush aside gear lust, though I still enjoy the drool process. The submit new thread or new reply button doesn't even appeal to me as much anymore.

What gets me excited at this point in my philmusic residency is the chance to share information that has proven valuable for me. Never mind the other touchy stuff. Info is what got me to GC, and fresh info is what keeps me tuned in. What's trendy, what is the popular way of doing things, etc. Whether it's something I would apply to my gear, I like to think I can discern for myself already at this point. ^-^

So to summarize, don't worry if you get riled up over trivial matters on GC, dear reader, over time the maturity will come that you learn to assimilate what is yours to use, and like smoke evade the wastes of energy. I see that a lot of the active members before have taken to lurking instead of their usual post-happy-trigger-finger ways, so I can say I don't speak for myself only.

So with their advise also.... Chill lang and enjoy your stay.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: cooksiecooks on December 10, 2014, 09:56:11 AM
 enough said   :drool:
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: parkerfly on March 14, 2015, 03:28:37 AM
A stickied wisdom! :mrgreen:  should've read this a long time ago.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: j.nikko3123 on July 04, 2015, 06:07:32 AM
Everyone should read this once in a while.
Title: Re: Survival Guide to Guitar Central (based on A True Story)
Post by: rad_12 on April 15, 2017, 06:09:02 AM
well said sir

bihira na akong dumaan dito sa gc ngayon ko lang nakita 'to.