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The Music Forums => Gospel and Praise => Topic started by: zhej on August 07, 2013, 11:14:43 PM

Title: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: zhej on August 07, 2013, 11:14:43 PM
So this is the story...

Gitarista ako sa isang CONGREGATION dito satin sa 'pinas. Member of the worship team. We sing and praise God together with my fellow churchmates at katulad ng ibang mga churches merong mga youth fellowships.

I usually listen to christian rock and other stuffs like that. To be honest, sometimes medyo may problema ako regarding suggestion of line-ups. This is within the youth ministry, there were always a particular song that's coming into my mind within that theme that were following through but sometimes pag naririnig na nila yung mga songs (Hillsong united, JesusCulture, Planetshakers etc.) they were like "ok sige, 'ill listen to this and try to connect with it" pero i ended up like listening to what they think about the song at hindi yun granted dahil sa musicality (ROCK) that's the term.

Laging dumarating sa time na iniisip nila yung congregation at maapreciate ng tenga ng mga attenders, yes i know. During our regular GAWAIN tha's true, pero kahit sa youth gatherings namin parang ang dating pa rin ay yung mga luma na alam nila at ayaw sumubok ng ibang bago (usually english) na dapat na pinapractice.

I mean there were times na iniisip ko, is this about the congregation dahil most of our attendies saming main church is medyo may edad na? I can be sensitive about the listener and i know laging pasok ang true meaning of WORSHIP. But i can't uderstand minsan, minsan nagagawa ko ng magcompare sa ibang churches at nagsisimulang mainggit sa kung pano nila mahandle yung mga gantong line-ups at kung gaano kaactive ang youth's nila within this kind of musicality. But sometimes iniisip ko na lang na were not yet enough mature for this, and by God's Grace we can resolve this. (or ako lang talaga may problema)

Kung ok lang hindi ko na lang sasabihin kung saan akong congregation kasali, for some reasons.

Godbless.
Title: Re: It depends on the congregation.
Post by: crouchdash on August 08, 2013, 12:08:41 AM
I think it's a common situation. I've experienced that too, sadly. In my opinion I think it does depend on the need of the people you are ministering to. Age is big factor, generational differences should be taken in consideration. For seasoned (old) folks; their preference is more on the tagalog songs which they understand or really prefer. For the youth; more on the upbeat english songs...which brings me to my next point, it also depends on your Music Ministry Head and your pastor; ideally they see the bigger picture and decide which would be acceptable/appreciated/would minister to the congregation.

We can always suggest song to learn  or to study, but then again suggestions can be okay'd or turned down, and you have to accept that.

What I do is talk to people of the same vibe that I have and try to discuss to him the song I have i mind; talking about the song either makes them curious and studies it or not.  I start teaching the song to one person and start with just jamming it then we teach it to another until the song ministers to them, then we get to have it in our line up.

Finally, it also depends on you... how good is your negotiation skills, your patience, your influence with other musicians.
(please note that we're not talking motives here. just saying :))
Title: Re: It depends on the congregation.
Post by: zhej on August 08, 2013, 12:26:23 AM
I think it's a common situation. I've experienced that too, sadly. In my opinion I think it does depend on the need of the people you are ministering to. Age is big factor, generational differences should be taken in consideration. For seasoned (old) folks; their preference is more on the tagalog songs which they understand or really prefer. For the youth; more on the upbeat english songs...which brings me to my next point, it also depends on your Music Ministry Head and your pastor; ideally they see the bigger picture and decide which would be acceptable/appreciated/would minister to the congregation.

We can always suggest song to learn  or to study, but then again suggestions can be okay'd or turned down, and you have to accept that.

What I do is talk to people of the same vibe that I have and try to discuss to him the song I have i mind; talking about the song either makes them curious and studies it or not.  I start teaching the song to one person and start with just jamming it then we teach it to another until the song ministers to them, then we get to have it in our line up.

Finally, it also depends on you... how good is your negotiation skills, your patience, your influence with other musicians.
(please note that we're not talking motives here. just saying :))

Tnx bro. For me kasi, regarding sa pagpili ng lineup theres always a revelation before that particular song come up with our mind or during listening that song it will just pop-out and then there it is, we connect to a song and put ourselves to it. Regardless with what kind of music it is. Pinagpipray na the congregation will feel the same way as what you did.

I guess there were just people who focuses on that guitar's distortion than the wonderful lyrics inside of it.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: kdrexr on August 08, 2013, 12:32:55 AM
We once have this problem in our congregation too before, kasi nasanay na sila sa slow and talagang gospel and worship songs. Luckily naman e yung mga members ng praise and worship team is open about all of these bands like what you have mentioned.

So we pursued and prayed na sana what we will play e magwowork talaga for the worship service. And the same problem that we have with yours, ay yung mga may edad na, and at first talagang kontra sila sa aming mga songs. Maingay daw, In which kasi we have mistakes naman na lahat halos ng kinanta namin bago.

Yet we resolved it kasi nagmeeting ang church about it. And ang ginawa namin unti unti naming siningit ang mga modern praise and worship songs with the old songs na nakasanayan na nila. Then by the empowerment of God and The Holy Spirit, nagugustuhan na ng buong congregation yung mga songs. Though pinipili talaga namin yung mga songs for the main worship service and sa youth naman is we freely decide.

About naman sa mga kateam mo, pagusapan nyo mabuti, iencourage mo sila nicely since it is for God parin naman and then try it muna na iplay nyo or ipractice nyo lang sa practice ninyo then pray for it na they will go for it, everything will be fine, anjan si Lord..

San ka ba na congregation bro? ok lang yan hehe, we are in the same body of Christ naman, and maybe maykacongregation ka dito na makakatulong sayo or sa concern mo, at sa buong team ninyo diba? God Bless you brother :D
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: muskratdoug on August 11, 2013, 05:37:25 PM
There will always be a gap sa as to what appropeiate worship song between the youth, and elder members of the congregation. In order to bridge this gap is that the music minstry its self and .its members should realize iyng role nila at ano ba talaga ang trabaho nila. And the role ng music ministry is to "LEAD the congregation to worship" kung hindi sumabay at ng worship iyng congregation then it "FAiLED" as a music ministry. We always need to have this in our minds.

So how do we go about it?  First of all we need to realize that as a member of the music ministry we are formost "Servants" we are there to serve, not be "served" so our lineup of songs should be in relation to the theme or talk, the genre should have both for the senior member and also for the youth, iyng mga nasa gitna could relate to both. In this way you are able to serve all.

Ang kinalakihan kong genre eh heavy metal, pero sa tagal ko na ng seserbe sa music ministry halos lahat na ng genre natutunan ko na, maski ma pa rock, jazz ,opm or kundiman natutugtog ko sa church, kaya naman naka pag session ako sa ibat ibat communities, iba ibat age ng musikero mapa sa 18yrs hanggang 60yrs. So sa pag dating sa worship, basta para kay Lord, wala akong pinipiling klase ng genre or kanta. eventually there will come a time as we will mature in our service both musically and in our faith, we will become true servants playing music for God, and our brother and sister, not for ourselves. That is what i'm striving for. If we put God first then everything will fall in to place.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: UNIVERSAL_MODERATOR on August 11, 2013, 07:58:53 PM
Pag ganito na mga Example ng tutugan sa loob ng Church nyo...


*

eh mag isip-isip na kayo... hindi lahat ng nagsasalita ng tungkol sa Dios eh sa Dios na, maalala nyo sana kahit si Satanas salita rin ng Dios ang ginagamit para mangdaya.. Hindi ba salita din ng Dios ang ginamit nya para tuksuin si Kristo sa ilang? kaparehas din yan ng hindi lahat ng humahawak ng Biblia ay sa Dios... at hindi lahat ng tugtugin kahit papuri pa yan kalugod-lugod sa Dios...

dagdag pa natin yung possibilities na pwedeng maka impluwensya sa kanila...
*paano kung maiisip nya magpa tattoo narin total rock-rockan narin lang nman
*eh magpaba narin kaya ng buhok para masulit ang headbangan?
*eh paano kung sa ganyang tugtugan nagiging mahalay galaw ng iba? kahit sa loob ng church pwede kang ma-libuggan kasi nkikita ng mata, kakatalon ng iba yumuyugyog mga malalaking dibdib ng kababaihan..
*sama mo pa na kahit sa pananamit ng mga babae sa panahon ngayon..kahit sa loob ng bahay sambahan..wala ng delikadesa, wala ng paki alam kung mapag nanasaan ba sila...sobrang hapit, bumabakat na, at kita mo na hubog ng katawan.. mkpag focus ka pa kaya sa faith mo... o pagnanasa na pumasok sa isip ng nagsasa Dios...
*at marami pang ibang Reality na ayaw pansinin ng iba kasi kinasanayan na...

sa huli siyasatin din natin sarili natin, sabihin na nating para sa Dios tugtugan... mas magiging mabuti, banal at maayos naman kaya itsura ng samahan nyo...? di nman ako againts sa "Christian Rock" may klase naman ng christian rock na para sakin magaganda pakinggan.. pero yung  christian rock na magiging wild ka na at hindi na magiging pino galaw mo..eh siguro isip isip din pag may time...

parang ganito: istorya ni Abel at  Cain...  eh si Cain ang gusto din mabuti diba? Hindi si Abel lang ang mababasang nag-iisa kundi dalawa silang NAG-HANDOG...  hindi  basta pagpuri sa bibig lang ang intensyon ni Cain, nagpagal pa sya para lang may mai-handa... ganunpaman: kahit ang intensyon nya mabuti at purihin ang DIOS, hindi sya naging katanggap tanggap sa huli... kasi  hindi nya ginawa ang DAPAT na UGALIIN ng nagsasa-DIOS...

hindi lahat ng mabuting intensyon na naiisip ng tao na sa PALAGAY nya TAMA para sa KANYA, eh tama narin at sasang ayunan narin ng Dios, kaya nga dapat may pinagbabatayan, kasi nga maliligaw ang tao pag ang  pakikinggan nya lang lagi eh yung palagay ng kung sino sino...parang ang labas eh nanghuhula kna lang ng tama sa hindi


yan ang batayan ko yung nasusulat... ewan ko sa iba kasi mag kakaiba tayo ng paniniwala.. di nman ang layunin ko eh wasakin ang paniniwala nyo.. nag bibigay lang ako ng bagay na baka naman pwede nyo rin pag-isip isipan, bka naman may katwiran din yung sinasabi ko..
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: iyzburg on August 22, 2013, 12:05:13 PM
How about trying to get on it like this:

Jeremiah 9:24: But let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD.

It doesn't depend on anything (that includes congregation), you have to GO BACK to the real reason: the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
If we say we know Him, and that we glory in Him, or we give glory to Him, then we do what is pleasurable according to Him, through the principles He gave us, which is pervasive in the entire Bible: Lovingkindness/mercy; Justice; and Righteousness.

Lovingkindness/mercy - Does the thing in question, say the songs, shows lovingkindness or mercy towards your intended audience, that is, the congregation? Or, does the type of songs I desire fulfills its purpose, that is, leading them to worship.. Etc..

Justice - does the song give justice to truth expressed in Scripture? Personally, I base justice (when it comes to songs for corporate worship, and all songs for that matter) to scriptural truth..

Righteousness - For me, it's my life (attitude, visible actions, words, etc) as a worship leader.. Dapat aligned as much as possible sa revealed standards of righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ..
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: iamnamra on August 22, 2013, 12:35:12 PM
I guess this really is normal when you are a part of a music team tapos andami mong gusto isuggest and later on itturn down lang or di ma-aapprove.

In our case, mahirap at madalang makapagpasok ng new songs lalo na kung mga magagandang songs na nirelease or bagong albums. Pero as time goes by, natutunan din nameng mag submit sa authority. May dahilan si God kung baket hindi nala-lineup yung songs na gusto namen and at the same time kailangan ding i-honor yung leader na nagdedecide.

Lastly, it still boils down to honoring God. Madalas madami tayong naiisip na factor and nakakalimutan naten yung real meaning ng worship. Christian first, Musician second.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on August 22, 2013, 10:14:19 PM
Kaya dapat we are empowering our respective church's worship leaders so they:

1. Know how to select theme-fitting songs (theme should be coming from the Pastor)
2. Meditate and pray for the fitting songs
3. Learn how to communicate the "inspired" line up to the team in order to set the team spirit
4. Lead the team in leading the congregation to worship in spirit

It's not a crime to "want" new/different songs. This can be "suggested" during the team's regular sharing/bonding moments. From these sessions, team members can share their inspirations and then worship leaders can also pick up inspirations from there that can be translated into powerful, Spirit-filled line ups.

When I was younger I was so against those who didn't like new, usually-upbeat songs. There were a lot of times when I didn't like the songs we played and playing the instrument felt trivial (routine/boring). My bro-in-law inspired me to play the songs based on the message and to whom it's being sung to, and since then any song I'd play would no longer have a genre badge. Every song felt the same -- Praise and Worship. We'd play old and new, english and tagalog songs and no one would complain.

Lastly, I don't believe in "it depends on the congregation..." as if the church practices democracy and not theocracy; as if the Holy Spirit moves depending on the vote of the people. I believe that it depends on how the team takes the congregation in a way of worship that CUTS through their spirit ( Can relate to, Understand, Talk to God, Sing to)
Title: Re: It depends on the congregation.
Post by: kaishin_zurcs on August 25, 2013, 04:47:24 PM
I think it's a common situation. I've experienced that too, sadly. In my opinion I think it does depend on the need of the people you are ministering to. Age is big factor, generational differences should be taken in consideration. For seasoned (old) folks; their preference is more on the tagalog songs which they understand or really prefer. For the youth; more on the upbeat english songs...which brings me to my next point, it also depends on your Music Ministry Head and your pastor; ideally they see the bigger picture and decide which would be acceptable/appreciated/would minister to the congregation.

We can always suggest song to learn  or to study, but then again suggestions can be okay'd or turned down, and you have to accept that.

What I do is talk to people of the same vibe that I have and try to discuss to him the song I have i mind; talking about the song either makes them curious and studies it or not.  I start teaching the song to one person and start with just jamming it then we teach it to another until the song ministers to them, then we get to have it in our line up.

Finally, it also depends on you... how good is your negotiation skills, your patience, your influence with other musicians.
(please note that we're not talking motives here. just saying :))


ang tagal ko nawala dito sa PM at ngaun lng ulit naka balik sir crouch pero grabe pa din ang wisdom mo. always enlightening :)
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: rednas on August 26, 2013, 07:02:30 AM
Quote
Lastly, I don't believe in "it depends on the congregation..." as if the church practices democracy and not theocracy; as if the Holy Spirit moves depending on the vote of the people. I believe that it depends on how the team takes the congregation in a way of worship that CUTS through their spirit ( Can relate to, Understand, Talk to God, Sing to)
I agree.  Although if the congregation could not relate to the song choices - it defeats the purpose of congregational worship. And it could be a sign that the team has strayed from what the the Holy Spirit intends.  Here is a good reminder:

Amos 5:21-24
ďI canít stand your religious meetings.
    Iím fed up with your conferences and conventions.
I want nothing to do with your religion projects,
    your pretentious slogans and goals.
Iím sick of your fund-raising schemes,
    your public relations and image making.
Iíve had all I can take of your noisy ego-music.
    When was the last time you sang to me?
Do you know what I want?
    I want justiceóoceans of it.
I want fairnessórivers of it.
    Thatís what I want. Thatís all I want.

Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on August 26, 2013, 01:21:25 PM
I agree.  Although if the congregation could not relate to the song choices - it defeats the purpose of congregational worship. And it could be a sign that the team has strayed from what the the Holy Spirit intends.  Here is a good reminder:
Not sure if you're agreeing or you're also making another point bro but I think what you just said is what I meant in my last line. Or maybe it just confused me because you started your line with "Although". I'm not being jerky; I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.

By the way, I am not familiar with the Bible version you're quoting from in Amos so for the benefit of those who are not familiar with the verse, the context is that, this was during Israel's sinning, and religion/faith has become an institution (not so far from how some churches are nowadays). It absolutely does NOT mean religious meetings, conferences, conventions and other church activities/programs are bad  -- or deeds of scheme-scamming individuals.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: Jhoseph on August 26, 2013, 05:39:58 PM
Pag ganito na mga Example ng tutugan sa loob ng Church nyo...


*

eh mag isip-isip na kayo... hindi lahat ng nagsasalita ng tungkol sa Dios eh sa Dios na, maalala nyo sana kahit si Satanas salita rin ng Dios ang ginagamit para mangdaya.. Hindi ba salita din ng Dios ang ginamit nya para tuksuin si Kristo sa ilang? kaparehas din yan ng hindi lahat ng humahawak ng Biblia ay sa Dios... at hindi lahat ng tugtugin kahit papuri pa yan kalugod-lugod sa Dios...

dagdag pa natin yung possibilities na pwedeng maka impluwensya sa kanila...
*paano kung maiisip nya magpa tattoo narin total rock-rockan narin lang nman
*eh magpaba narin kaya ng buhok para masulit ang headbangan?
*eh paano kung sa ganyang tugtugan nagiging mahalay galaw ng iba? kahit sa loob ng church pwede kang ma-libuggan kasi nkikita ng mata, kakatalon ng iba yumuyugyog mga malalaking dibdib ng kababaihan..
*sama mo pa na kahit sa pananamit ng mga babae sa panahon ngayon..kahit sa loob ng bahay sambahan..wala ng delikadesa, wala ng paki alam kung mapag nanasaan ba sila...sobrang hapit, bumabakat na, at kita mo na hubog ng katawan.. mkpag focus ka pa kaya sa faith mo... o pagnanasa na pumasok sa isip ng nagsasa Dios...
*at marami pang ibang Reality na ayaw pansinin ng iba kasi kinasanayan na...

sa huli siyasatin din natin sarili natin, sabihin na nating para sa Dios tugtugan... mas magiging mabuti, banal at maayos naman kaya itsura ng samahan nyo...? di nman ako againts sa "Christian Rock" may klase naman ng christian rock na para sakin magaganda pakinggan.. pero yung  christian rock na magiging wild ka na at hindi na magiging pino galaw mo..eh siguro isip isip din pag may time...

parang ganito: istorya ni Abel at  Cain...  eh si Cain ang gusto din mabuti diba? Hindi si Abel lang ang mababasang nag-iisa kundi dalawa silang NAG-HANDOG...  hindi  basta pagpuri sa bibig lang ang intensyon ni Cain, nagpagal pa sya para lang may mai-handa... ganunpaman: kahit ang intensyon nya mabuti at purihin ang DIOS, hindi sya naging katanggap tanggap sa huli... kasi  hindi nya ginawa ang DAPAT na UGALIIN ng nagsasa-DIOS...

hindi lahat ng mabuting intensyon na naiisip ng tao na sa PALAGAY nya TAMA para sa KANYA, eh tama narin at sasang ayunan narin ng Dios, kaya nga dapat may pinagbabatayan, kasi nga maliligaw ang tao pag ang  pakikinggan nya lang lagi eh yung palagay ng kung sino sino...parang ang labas eh nanghuhula kna lang ng tama sa hindi


yan ang batayan ko yung nasusulat... ewan ko sa iba kasi mag kakaiba tayo ng paniniwala.. di nman ang layunin ko eh wasakin ang paniniwala nyo.. nag bibigay lang ako ng bagay na baka naman pwede nyo rin pag-isip isipan, bka naman may katwiran din yung sinasabi ko..

I totally agree with you bro. Marami na rin mga musicians ngayon ang sobrang naiimpluwensyahan ng Christian Rock music. Madalas ay mga kabataan. At kung di pa naman masyadong malalim ang pagkaunawa sa music lalo na sa Church music ay may tendencies na mag wild na. Lalo na if they coupled it with the common alibis: "it's not the instrument or the behavior of the person, it's in the heart. kung sa loob ng puso ay worship to the Lord ang intention e sige, wag hadlangan at wag i-judge"

Nagiging overused and misused ang pilosopiyang yan. Paano kung sa PUSO nga nya e pagwo-worship ang motive nya pero ang actuations, attitude at style nya e nakaka tisod/turn-off at nakaka dis-appoint na sa ibang church member whom he/she is suppposed to LEAD in WORSHIPPING GOD. Tapos pala e nagiging resentful ang member because of that.

One person's personal motive (be it honest or sincere) is good, but if it is not beneficial for the good and welfare of the majority of the brethren is akin to becoming a "deterrent" for people to worship God. Ang iba once na nasira na ang gana nila at nainis na ay hahalukipkip na lang at magmamasid sa paligid dahil nga di nila matanggap ang ganoong wild singing. Especially yung sobrang lakas ng volume level ng mga instrumento na halos mabingi na ang mga tao, yung di na rin maintindihan ang song lyrics and message ng kanta pati na rin boses ng singer.

Decency, delicadesa, professionalism and most of all ay isipin dapat kung ano ang mas acceptable to the majority, hindi yung sa palagay mo lang e ok na kasi nga "nasa puso mo nag woworship ka kay Lord kahit mag wild na. The Lord understand"

The Bible said "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial" Applicable din ito sa Church music. 

Christian rock music maybe permissible to a person or few persons, but it may not be generally beneficial to the whole church.

We should also consider the demography of our church, the Church doctrines, principles, practices and traditions in music preferences. Not every members of the church are youth and 'rakista.'  How about the mature and old ones?
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: rednas on August 26, 2013, 05:57:23 PM
Not sure if you're agreeing or you're also making another point bro but I think what you just said is what I meant in my last line. Or maybe it just confused me because you started your line with "Although". I'm not being jerky; I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.

By the way, I am not familiar with the Bible version you're quoting from in Amos so for the benefit of those who are not familiar with the verse, the context is that, this was during Israel's sinning, and religion/faith has become an institution (not so far from how some churches are nowadays). It absolutely does NOT mean religious meetings, conferences, conventions and other church activities/programs are bad  -- or deeds of scheme-scamming individuals.

I agreed to your statement that it does not depend on the congregation.  However, I added that we should still consider the congregation's response, as it will give the worship team hints whether or not we are actually leading worship, or just playing some "ego-music". 

BTW, my response to the OP is this - Worship should "depend" on the leading of the Holy Spirit...

The Bible version I used is "The Message", it's a cool translation.  Note that the verse DOES mean what it says, religious activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on August 26, 2013, 09:20:27 PM
I agreed to your statement that it does not depend on the congregation.  However, I added that we should still consider the congregation's response, as it will give the worship team hints whether or not we are actually leading worship, or just playing some "ego-music". 

BTW, my response to the OP is this - Worship should "depend" on the leading of the Holy Spirit...

The Bible version I used is "The Message", it's a cool translation.  Note that the verse DOES mean what it says, religious activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity.
Let's not confuse others by our points here. I used the acronym CUTS [through] (Can relate to, Understand, Talk to God, Sing to) and basically you will need to consider the congregation's response (real time, hence the worship leader needs to keep his/her eyes open at least 90% of the time and; after-worship, from the Pastor's feedback or from others) to be able to do it. "Considering" and "depending" are different, so we're really on the same page. "Although" and "However" were not necessary.

Let me put my point above in practice... I agree with you that we should "depend" on the leading of the Holy Spirit. If all else fails, the Holy Spirit won't. Additionally :wink:, the Holy Spirit does work not only when we are already worshiping, He may have already been working on a "message" on worship with your Pastor through the week or month's theme. Talking to the Pastor may help in understanding the Spirit's working (noun) in the church more.

The Bible version I used is "The Message", it's a cool translation.  Note that the verse DOES mean what it says, religious activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity.
The "The Message" translation, while more straightforward and applicable to the current Christians, should always be quoted with caution. That's why I added the context of the verses you quoted. In its original translation, it's not how it is said. It doesn't say "conferences, conventions, noisy ego-music, fund raising, etc." Without context, it can mean that church activities/programs are wrong and not of God. "Context" simply means "background" or the story behind the verse/chapter or content.

And you just did put the context in your response. activities done OUTSIDE their intended purposes (i.e. Justice and Fairness) are just that - religious activities.  If done with the leading of the Holy Spirit, then it glorifies God and goes beyond just being another social club activity. And with that, I agree with you 100%.  :)

James 1:19 (NIV)

19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: niroh on August 27, 2013, 11:45:12 PM
James 1:19 (NIV)

19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry,

magsubmit lang tayo sa may authority. . ., kahit saang church siguro nararanasan nila ang ganitong bagay. . . kahit kami sa church namin (CCF-Pasig Ever)

naranasan namin ito. . ., hanggang sa nagtry sila magline-up ng mga medjo rock, like planetshakers. . ., pero di talaga maiiwan na mga mga magrereklamo

from the people, as a FOH sa church, ang hirap din kapag may nagsabi na (masyadong malakas ang tugtugan!) kaya kapag sabi ni ptr. na hinaan ng konti

susunod ako dahil sila ang may authority, ganun din siguro sa mga ministry leaders natin like sa music
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on August 28, 2013, 01:57:36 PM
magsubmit lang tayo sa may authority. . ., kahit saang church siguro nararanasan nila ang ganitong bagay. . . kahit kami sa church namin (CCF-Pasig Ever)

naranasan namin ito. . ., hanggang sa nagtry sila magline-up ng mga medjo rock, like planetshakers. . ., pero di talaga maiiwan na mga mga magrereklamo

from the people, as a FOH sa church, ang hirap din kapag may nagsabi na (masyadong malakas ang tugtugan!) kaya kapag sabi ni ptr. na hinaan ng konti

susunod ako dahil sila ang may authority, ganun din siguro sa mga ministry leaders natin like sa music

I agree with this. There was even a study made in congregations led by acousticians and they found out that more than 50% of the reasons of new  church attendees leaving is the sound (amplitude). The problem is they do not even know they are only complaining about the sound unless it is explained to them. Weird naman kung kakausapin natin ang mga bisita at sabihin, "Actually ok naman kami, di mo lang nagustuhan yung lakas ng sound namin." Hehehe!
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: niroh on August 28, 2013, 10:24:27 PM
maganda din kung ma-eevaluate din natin ang mgasarily natin. . ., kamusta na ba ang relationship natin kay Lord?
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: KUBETA on August 30, 2013, 02:34:57 AM
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Lalo na if they coupled it with the common alibis "it's not the instrument or the behavior of the person, it's in the heart. kung sa loob ng puso ay worship to the Lord ang intention e sige, wag hadlangan at wag i-judge"

tama ka... mas maalab kasi pag-ibig na alam nila sa Musika vs Bible... dinadahilan ng iba yan para pagbigyan ang gusto nila... ang iba papilosopo pa nga... basta daw about praise and worship kay GOD ginawa mo pasok na daw yun... mababaw kasi pundasyon na itinituro sa kanila sa Biblia... siguro pag yung isang kilalang "Rock Icon" gumawa ng Christian Rock album na mala Slayer ang dating... wala ng question question idol agad... masarap kasi sa tenga eh... halata mo agad kung ano yung mas matimbang sa interes nila... hanggang ang maging katwiran ng iba, dahil nakikita at ginagawa na ng iba yan kaya pwede na  narin kasi 2013 marami ng nagbago kaya dapat maki-uso rin...

ang salita ng Dios nagtuturo ng kahin-hinan... di pwedeng ikatwiran ng iba na dahil marami ng nagsusuot ng mga pa sexy at maiikling short ngayon eh... makiki isa ka narin... hindi na kahin-hinan tawag jan... gusto ata ng iba talagang letra por letra at may drawing pa mababasa sa bible na di nga sang ayon ang Dios jan...

kung paanong nagtuturo ang Dios ng kahin-hinan patungkol sa pananamit, BOBBO ka nyan  kung pag dating sa musika dimo i aaply yan... kelangan pa bang nababasa sa Biblia kung anong klase ng musika mahinhin sa hindi?

kung ako tatanungin medyo korny sakin mga tugtuging pang church... talagang mas magaganda tugtugan ng pang sanlibutan eh... gaya ng mga favorite kong Pantera, Led Zeppelin, Guns n Roses, Nirvana ...etc...  pero alang alang sa katwiran di ako suma sang ayon sa mga klase ng CHristian Rock na sobrang maiingay puro sigawan nalang.... di ko nilalahat ah

Ngayon kung ang kakatwiran naman ng iba
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"it's in the heart. kung sa loob ng puso ay worship to the Lord ang intention sige, wag hadlangan at wag i-judge"
ikina lulungkot ko pero sa pamantayan ng Dios ng Biblia BAGSAK na agad sinumang may paniniwalang ganyan...

Mateo:
21: Hindi lahat ng tumatawag sa akin, 'Panginoon, Panginoon,' ay papasok sa kaharian ng langit, kundi ang mga tao lamang na sumusunod sa kalooban ng aking Ama na nasa langit.
22: Sa Araw ng Paghuhukom marami ang magsasabi sa akin, 'Panginoon, hindi po ba kami ay nagpahayag ng mensahe mula sa Diyos, nagpalayas ng mga demonyo at gumawa ng mga himala sa iyong pangalan?'
23: Ngunit sasabihin ko sa kanila, 'Hindi ko kayo nakikilala. Lumayo kayo sa akin, kayong mga gumagawa ng kasamaan.


verse 21: diba jan nga bumagsak si Cain.. kahit ang intensyon nya pumuri, kahit nagpagod at nagpawis pa sya para lang may ihandog eh sinumpa pa siya?   kung ang intensyon mo basta worship to the Lord lang wala kaparin binatbat sa ginawa ni Cain dahil siya nagpagal at nagpakahirap pa...!

verse 22:   Mismong mga PASTOR at mga MANGANGAGARAL na tinutukoy  jan... na ang gamit din BIBLIA... nagpalayas pa ng Demonyo at Gumawa pa ng mga himala.... di nman pwedeng atheista mga yan dahil di gumagamit ng Biblia yan..

eh kung yan mga manlolokong Pastor, na Biblia narin ginagamit, eh ano pa kaya yung tugtugang pang worship at praise lang kay GOD?... kaya nga dapat may batayan yung sinusunod na faith eh....   maliligaw tayo pag ang pakikinggan natin eh mga kilala at dinadakila nyong tao tapos ang sasabihin lang eh... "I personally believe" tapos todo idol sunod narin agad sa paniniwala nila....LOLS

ganunpaman: "sabi ni Kristo igalang mo lahat ng TAO"..  kaya magagawa nalang natin eh mag-paalala.. kasalanan na kasi ang kasunod pag pinilit pa natin sila sa gusto natin..  pabayaan nalang sila sa gusto nila..


Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on August 31, 2013, 11:44:40 PM
I apologize to the threadstarter because it was me who started kind of veering away from the topic.

Now guys, let's go back to the original topic. It's about learning what type of music would fit the church you're in. Let's not reply with the presumption that there is something wrong with [the heart] of the team of the threadstarter. Maybe you can share your personal or your church's experience on the matter. I think the threadstarter wants to hear our thoughts on the matter and not a  diagnosis of an unmentioned problem. :)
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: ozborne on September 01, 2013, 12:31:18 AM
ok naman siguro na mabilis ang timing para di antukin yung mga tao at medyo rock ang dating,  pero wag lang over ang distortion o me mga drums na masyado mabilis o anu ano pa  para i ipakita ang galing.  huwag muna me time para dyan,  praising muna,  Dios ang bida,  di tayo sa ganitong sitwasyon
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: KUBETA on September 01, 2013, 12:57:28 AM
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I apologize to the threadstarter because it was me who started kind of veering away from the topic.

Now guys, let's go back to the original topic. It's about learning what type of music would fit the church you're in. Let's not reply with the presumption that there is something wrong with [the heart] of the team of the threadstarter. Maybe you can share your personal or your church's experience on the matter. I think the threadstarter wants to hear our thoughts on the matter and not a  diagnosis of an unmentioned problem.

ok lang po yan kung dahil sa palagay ng iba eh nagiging malinaw ang tema...  Dapat lang talaga napag uusapan yang ganito... kasi kung Hindi pupunahin ang MALI eh lahat nalang maniniwala sa MALI lalong dadami maniniwala sa MALI... ang totoo kung Biblia ang pag-uusapan, di pwede idahilan ng iba na dahil ayaw mo magkaroon ng kaaway dimo narin sisitahin yung mali...

Tito 1:13:  Ang patotoong ito ay tunay. Dahil dito'y sawayin mong may kabagsikan sila, upang mangapakagaling sa pananampalataya,

maraming tauhan sa Biblia ang pinatay dahil sa ganyan mga gawain nila... common jan ang dinidebate pa nila yung mga bantog, kilala, at mga nasaka pangyarihang mga tao sa panahon nila, basta makakapag ligaw ng paniniwala ke hari payan kakalabanin nila yan...di pwede sabihin ng mga religion ngayon na dahil di nila pinupuna maling pananampalataya ng iba religion at di sila nakikipag diskusyon eh mas matutuwid at banal pa sila sa mga naging tauhan sa Biblia... Utos kasi yan eh... para maitama mo ang mali kahit may magalit sayo sabihin mo yung dapat at yung tama...

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ok naman siguro na mabilis ang timing para di antukin yung mga tao at medyo rock ang dating,  pero wag lang over ang distortion o me mga drums na masyado mabilis o anu ano pa  para i ipakita ang galing.  huwag muna me time para dyan,  praising muna,  Dios ang bida,  di tayo sa ganitong sitwasyon

TAMA! di  ako againts sa Christian Rock mga bro huh... wag lang yung parang barubal na dating...para maging specific ako siguro sabihin ko na mga tipong ala beatles, elvis presley, queen yan pwede pasok pa.... pero wag naman yung tipong wala na sa hulog yung tugtugan basta makapag ingay nalang at maipakita nyang talagang rakista sya sa loob ng church nila...  pati sa pagkanta dimo na maintindihan sinasabi kaka-sigaw... dimo mo na makita yung pagka disente sa pagsamba pagka ganyan... at ang idadahilan nalang eh basta papuri OK na daw yun...  di naman mahirap intindihin yung klase ng  disenteng papuri sa hindi...
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on September 01, 2013, 04:30:13 AM
ok lang po yan kung dahil sa palagay ng iba eh nagiging malinaw ang tema...  Dapat lang talaga napag uusapan yang ganito... kasi kung Hindi pupunahin ang MALI eh lahat nalang maniniwala sa MALI lalong dadami maniniwala sa MALI... ang totoo kung Biblia ang pag-uusapan, di pwede idahilan ng iba na dahil ayaw mo magkaroon ng kaaway dimo narin sisitahin yung mali...

Tito 1:13:  Ang patotoong ito ay tunay. Dahil dito'y sawayin mong may kabagsikan sila, upang mangapakagaling sa pananampalataya,

maraming tauhan sa Biblia ang pinatay dahil sa ganyan mga gawain nila... common jan ang dinidebate pa nila yung mga bantog, kilala, at mga nasaka pangyarihang mga tao sa panahon nila, basta makakapag ligaw ng paniniwala ke hari payan kakalabanin nila yan...di pwede sabihin ng mga religion ngayon na dahil di nila pinupuna maling pananampalataya ng iba religion at di sila nakikipag diskusyon eh mas matutuwid at banal pa sila sa mga naging tauhan sa Biblia... Utos kasi yan eh... para maitama mo ang mali kahit may magalit sayo sabihin mo yung dapat at yung tama...

TAMA! di  ako againts sa Christian Rock mga bro huh... wag lang yung parang barubal na dating...para maging specific ako siguro sabihin ko na mga tipong ala beatles, elvis presley, queen yan pwede pasok pa.... pero wag naman yung tipong wala na sa hulog yung tugtugan basta makapag ingay nalang at maipakita nyang talagang rakista sya sa loob ng church nila...  pati sa pagkanta dimo na maintindihan sinasabi kaka-sigaw... dimo mo na makita yung pagka disente sa pagsamba pagka ganyan... at ang idadahilan nalang eh basta papuri OK na daw yun...  di naman mahirap intindihin yung klase ng  disenteng papuri sa hindi...
ibig ko lang po sabihin sir wag natin i-hijack ang post na ito. Kung may gusto kayo i-point out about "wrong" church practices, magsimula na lang po kayo ng ibang bagong thread. Nais lang po ng gumawa ng thread na ito na malaman ang approach ng ibang church sa ganitong topic. Sharing lang po ng actual practices, hindi po ng basic Christian foundation. Di ko po sinasabing di importante ito, out of topic nga lang sa purpose ng threadstarter.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: ozborne on September 01, 2013, 01:51:10 PM
meron din akong nakitang 2 topic pa dito.   1.  ok lang ba magpatugtog ng  christian metal habang nag worship 2.   nag depende ba sa congregation kung ano ang aking playlist  during the  worship.   ginamit niya ang salitang congregation so pasok dito yung mga different christian sect and denominations.    meron denominations na nag invest talaga sa sound system para maka attract ng followers at yung ok sa congregation ay ok sa kanila. nag play sila ng mga folk songs at alternative na ok ang mga mensahe at naka attract ang melody,  kaya kelangan sensitive din tayo sa like nila kaya sasabihin ng pastor ups, medyo di yata klik yan so stop muna pero kung ok sa congregation sige tuloy dyan tayo kikita para dumami ang members natin.
sa pangalawa sitwasyon patungkol ito sa mainstream church natin which is Catholic.   meron mga music ministry dyan at kasama ang pari sa mga meeting kung ano ang mga songs o genre na pwde at alam naman natin na sa Catholic ay mga sinaunang tugtugan ang nakagawian at meron na din naka appreciate ng medyo modern music.  pero malaking issue yan pag nagpatugtog ka ng metal pwede siguro medyo mellow rock  :-) dito it depends sa choir leader kung ano ang kanyang set of songs with the help of the Gospel reading kasi mas madami alam yun mga choir na mga songs na new and old na pwede ikabit sa readings.   

 kaya dito mag suffer yung ating artistry at musical creativity ayaw natin pare pareho na lang ang tugtugan kasi malimitahan yung skills at expressions  natin .  minsan yung members ay di din nagkasundo kung ano songs ang mas angkop at meron gustong songs na di trip ng ilan    opinyon lang  :nosebleed:
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: KUBETA on September 01, 2013, 02:59:21 PM
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ibig ko lang po sabihin sir wag natin i-hijack ang post na ito. Kung may gusto kayo i-point out about "wrong" church practices, magsimula na lang po kayo ng ibang bagong thread. Nais lang po ng gumawa ng thread na ito na malaman ang approach ng ibang church sa ganitong topic. Sharing lang po ng actual practices, hindi po ng basic Christian foundation. Di ko po sinasabing di importante ito, out of topic nga lang sa purpose ng threadstarter. 



sorry po.. muka syang out of topic na talaga pero related parin sya... kaya nagbibigay na ako ng comparison para mas madali mag timbang...  kasi nga may iba kahit nararamdaman nyang di na akma yung musika nila..di nya rin mapagsabihan..kasi mas marami magiging kalaban nya, kaya ngiti nalang..  di nman kc ang basis ng faith eh kung sino mas marami yun ang tama...   kaya nga nasabi ko dapat pinupuna rin paniniwalang ganyan, kasi kahit MUSIKA na may kinalaman sa pananampalataya maidadamay jan...

kung tungkol naman direkta sa Topic, it depends upon the congretion and religion sagot ko... kasi kahit iisa Biblia gamit natin di tlaga lahat magkksundo, may iba ang sinunod nalang na batayan eh yung damdamin nila... yung mga paliwanag ng batayan nila eh tipong "sa palagay KO tama lang", "para SAKIN ok lang", "wala naman SIGURO masama".. yan ang tinatawag na paniniwalang walang batayan... kaya nga may iba pwede sa pagkaing ganito sa iba hindi, ganun din sa pananamit, at syempre damay jan pati pag-gawa ng MUSIC....
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on September 01, 2013, 03:03:44 PM
meron din akong nakitang 2 topic pa dito.   1.  ok lang ba magpatugtog ng  christian metal habang nag worship 2.   nag depende ba sa congregation kung ano ang aking playlist  during the  worship.   ginamit niya ang salitang congregation so pasok dito yung mga different christian sect and denominations.    meron denominations na nag invest talaga sa sound system para maka attract ng followers at yung ok sa congregation ay ok sa kanila. nag play sila ng mga folk songs at alternative na ok ang mga mensahe at naka attract ang melody,  kaya kelangan sensitive din tayo sa like nila kaya sasabihin ng pastor ups, medyo di yata klik yan so stop muna pero kung ok sa congregation sige tuloy dyan tayo kikita para dumami ang members natin.
sa pangalawa sitwasyon patungkol ito sa mainstream church natin which is Catholic.   meron mga music ministry dyan at kasama ang pari sa mga meeting kung ano ang mga songs o genre na pwde at alam naman natin na sa Catholic ay mga sinaunang tugtugan ang nakagawian at meron na din naka appreciate ng medyo modern music.  pero malaking issue yan pag nagpatugtog ka ng metal pwede siguro medyo mellow rock  :-) dito it depends sa choir leader kung ano ang kanyang set of songs with the help of the Gospel reading kasi mas madami alam yun mga choir na mga songs na new and old na pwede ikabit sa readings.   

 kaya dito mag suffer yung ating artistry at musical creativity ayaw natin pare pareho na lang ang tugtugan kasi malimitahan yung skills at expressions  natin .  minsan yung members ay di din nagkasundo kung ano songs ang mas angkop at meron gustong songs na di trip ng ilan    opinyon lang  :nosebleed:
Very good observation. Maganda talaga kasi kung ang mindset ng worship team ay collaborative sila (teamwork/team player) and not selective (personal preference). SO long as the Holy Spirit is able to move in the hearts of people, it won't matter na kahit heavy metal pa ang worship songs na tugtog natin. Aanhin naman natin kung solemn nga ang songs pero di naman nakakapagworship ang tao, diba. Para sa akin, kung sasabihin natin na merong "correct" genre ng music for worship eh di lahat tayo mali na kasi nag-iba na ang worship style ngayon. Even Don Moen's genre is not the same as what was used, say 30 years ago. Dati hymnals lang kadalasan. Yun nga lang, nag-click ang music ni Don Moen kaya highly accepted sya ng churches. Dito rin nagsunuran sila Ron Kenoly, Alvin Slaughter at yung current mainstream Christian worshippers like Lakewood and Hillsong. Ibig sabihin lang, di talaga natin masasabi kung paano mag-evolve ang way of worship natin in terms of music. Sabi nga sa Psalms 51:17, God will not despise the broken spirit and a contrite heart. Heavy metal, or not so; hymnal or modern -- none of these matter to God IF we worship Him in Spirit and Truth. So ang role ng team sa congregational worship is to be able to help the congregation worship God in spirit and in Truth. If metal won't do it, then that's the time to adjust. Adjusting doesn't mean totally changing. You can always inject a little here and there hanggang sa maka-relate sila eventually. Ganyan din naman nag-transition ang worship nung mid-80s from hymnal to charismatic worship. The key to do this is to avoid being too legalistic.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on September 01, 2013, 03:11:48 PM



sorry po.. muka syang out of topic na talaga pero related parin sya... kaya nagbibigay na ako ng comparison para mas madali mag timbang...  kasi nga may iba kahit nararamdaman nyang di na akma yung musika nila..di nya rin mapagsabihan..kasi mas marami magiging kalaban nya, kaya ngiti nalang..  di nman kc ang basis ng faith eh kung sino mas marami yun ang tama...   kaya nga nasabi ko dapat pinupuna rin paniniwalang ganyan, kasi kahit MUSIKA na may kinalaman sa pananampalataya maidadamay jan...

kung tungkol naman direkta sa Topic, it depends upon the congretion and religion sagot ko... kasi kahit iisa Biblia gamit natin di tlaga lahat magkksundo, may iba ang sinunod nalang na batayan eh yung damdamin nila... yung mga paliwanag ng batayan nila eh tipong "sa palagay KO tama lang", "para SAKIN ok lang", "wala naman SIGURO masama".. yan ang tinatawag na paniniwalang walang batayan... kaya nga may iba pwede sa pagkaing ganito sa iba hindi, ganun din sa pananamit, at syempre damay jan pati pag-gawa ng MUSIC....
Sige bro, according to the Bible, paano ba ang paggawa ng "tamang music"? At anong music ba ang akma sa simbahan? Kung ang Psalm 23 ba ay gagawan ko ng metal melody at kakantahin ko yun ng taos-puso sa Diyos hindi Nya tatanggapin? May preferred music genre ba si Lord?
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: KUBETA on September 02, 2013, 12:18:24 AM
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Sige bro, according to the Bible, paano ba ang paggawa ng "tamang music"? At anong music ba ang akma sa simbahan? Kung ang Psalm 23 ba ay gagawan ko ng metal melody at kakantahin ko yun ng taos-puso sa Diyos hindi Nya tatanggapin? May preferred music genre ba si Lord?

paanong style? kung taos sa puso tapos mala slipknot, slayer, pantera dating....with headbangan mga members, hindi mo na makita yung kahinhinan sa pagsamba... ewan ko kung yang ganyan ng klase ng tugtugan eh maayos pa tignan para sayo....

kaya nga nagkumpara ako eh para madaling timbangin... naging sapat ba yung pagiging taos sa puso ni CAIN nung dalawa sila ni abel nag-handog  sa Dios?... di mo nga mitutumbas manlang yung taos puso lang VS yung ginawa ni kain na taos puso din, with matching nagpakapagod pa sya para lang may maihanda sa paghahandog...  ngayon may intances ba na ginawa na  ng  taos sa puso ng tao, with feeling with hardship... pero di parin tinatanggap ng Dios?... ewan ko lang kung napapansin nyo comparison ko...

nomobile=1        ano ba palagay mo dito?

gusto mo idamay ko na pati eto... para basagin ko narin yung paniniwala ng iba na hindi longHair si Kristo...

I Corinto11:14
Hindi baga ang katalagahan din ang nagtuturo sa inyo, na kung may mahabang buhok ang lalake, ay mahalay sa kaniya?


ngayon kung ang ikakatwiran ng iba wala  rin buhok at wala sa tugtugin yan... aba siguro maghihiwalay na tayo ng paniniwala... ang alam ko kasi yung mga tagubilin at mga palatuntununan na tinuro ni Kristo yun ang dapat manatili at sundin hanggang sa huli eh...  (diko na siguro pakikinggan yung common terms ng iba na "ok lang siguro", "wala naman siguro masama"...etc... mga nag kukusa at nagsasariling palagay) sa bagay mag kakaiba naman tayo ng faith... diko kayo hinahadlangan sa gusto nyo kasi magka-iba nga tayo ng paniniwala...
eh ang sakin paalala lang  hindi pamimilit.... di naman ako nag popromote ng religion dito... andito tayo para mag share ng ideas na pwedeng mapag-isip isipan..  at hindi rin ako againts sa lahat ng Christian Rock..wala rin akong sinabi na ayaw ko sa mga bago.... binigay ko na siguro yung specific genre na gusto kong patamaan... saka isa pa pala  di ibig sabihin na nag rereply ako sayo bro eh nakikipag away ako ha... usapang may sense lang po tayo sana...

Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on September 02, 2013, 09:27:43 AM
paanong style? kung taos sa puso tapos mala slipknot, slayer, pantera dating....with headbangan mga members, hindi mo na makita yung kahinhinan sa pagsamba... ewan ko kung yang ganyan ng klase ng tugtugan eh maayos pa tignan para sayo....

kaya nga nagkumpara ako eh para madaling timbangin... naging sapat ba yung pagiging taos sa puso ni CAIN nung dalawa sila ni abel nag-handog  sa Dios?... di mo nga mitutumbas manlang yung taos puso lang VS yung ginawa ni kain na taos puso din, with matching nagpakapagod pa sya para lang may maihanda sa paghahandog...  ngayon may intances ba na ginawa na  ng  taos sa puso ng tao, with feeling with hardship... pero di parin tinatanggap ng Dios?... ewan ko lang kung napapansin nyo comparison ko...

nomobile=1        ano ba palagay mo dito?

gusto mo idamay ko na pati eto... para basagin ko narin yung paniniwala ng iba na hindi longHair si Kristo...

I Corinto11:14
Hindi baga ang katalagahan din ang nagtuturo sa inyo, na kung may mahabang buhok ang lalake, ay mahalay sa kaniya?


ngayon kung ang ikakatwiran ng iba wala  rin buhok at wala sa tugtugin yan... aba siguro maghihiwalay na tayo ng paniniwala... ang alam ko kasi yung mga tagubilin at mga palatuntununan na tinuro ni Kristo yun ang dapat manatili at sundin hanggang sa huli eh...  (diko na siguro pakikinggan yung common terms ng iba na "ok lang siguro", "wala naman siguro masama"...etc... mga nag kukusa at nagsasariling palagay) sa bagay mag kakaiba naman tayo ng faith... diko kayo hinahadlangan sa gusto nyo kasi magka-iba nga tayo ng paniniwala...
eh ang sakin paalala lang  hindi pamimilit.... di naman ako nag popromote ng religion dito... andito tayo para mag share ng ideas na pwedeng mapag-isip isipan..  at hindi rin ako againts sa lahat ng Christian Rock..wala rin akong sinabi na ayaw ko sa mga bago.... binigay ko na siguro yung specific genre na gusto kong patamaan... saka isa pa pala  di ibig sabihin na nag rereply ako sayo bro eh nakikipag away ako ha... usapang may sense lang po tayo sana...
You are basically lost about Cain. If you read the Bible again, he does not have a pure heart. In fact, God is not pleased with his offerings. He envies Abel. Pano mo nasabi na taos-puso ang pagsamba nya? Isa pa, hindi naman Praise and Worship ang ginawa ni Cain sa talatang tinutukoy mo. Ang pinag-uusapan dito ay pagsamba sa pagkanta, kapatid.

Napapansin ko lang, masyado mong pinapahalagahan ang itsura dito. Sa totoo lang, wala na akong pakialam kung long hair si Kristo o hindi. I just don't find the sense of knowing that. You are too focused on the culture of the people in the Bible. If you are saying we should observe everything in those chapters where it describes how the Middle-Eastern people's culture was (and still is today) then I assume naka-robe ka din ngayon?

The stories in the Bible happened in Israel and neighboring countries. They have their own set of culture, values, tradition and/or practices. When the Apostles wrote the books in the Bible, they are all addressed to the people in the same location, hence, same set of culture, values, tradition and/or practices.

Case in point 1:
Ang haba ng buhok ng lalake. Sa kultura noon, mahalay ang mahaba ang buhok. Malamang itong mga taong to kung nakakita lang t-shirt at maong ngayon, mahahalayan din sila. Bakit? Kasi kultura nila yun eh. Ang kitid naman ng utak ng ating Panginoon kung gagawin pa Nyang big deal ang buhok. Kawawa naman ang mga pulubi dahil wala silang pampagupit, di na sila karapat-dapat sa ating Panginoon. Tsaka kung ganun, nagkamali pala ang Diyos noong binigyan nya ng lakas si Samson sa pamamagitan ng paghaba ng kaniyang buhok.

Case in point 2:
Sa Psalm 150, pano mo magiging "kahinhinan" ang worship sa dami ng maiingay na instruments na ito?
Anong kahinhinan ang meron sa mga verses na nasa link na to? http://www.openbible.info/topics/david_danced_

Di tayo mag-aaway bro. Ang hiling ko lang, wag kang manghusga ng kapwa sa panlabas nila. Mahirap makita ang nilalaman ng puso ng tao. Mahirap makita kung taos-puso nga sila o hindi. Pero kita naman yung ng Diyos e. Madami naman dyan ang galing mag-worship pero artistahin pala. Alam ni Lord yun. Hayaan natin Sya na maghusga sa mga taong di natin nababasa.

So kung may sagot ka dito, pakisagot na lang. May preferred music genre ba ang Panginoon? Ano yun? Maaari ka din bang maglagay ng link from youtube or somewhere ng worship na may kahinhinan?

PS.
paanong style? kung taos sa puso tapos mala slipknot, slayer, pantera dating....with headbangan mga members, hindi mo na makita yung kahinhinan sa pagsamba... ewan ko kung yang ganyan ng klase ng tugtugan eh maayos pa tignan para sayo....
Di sya maayos para sa akin pero ako lang yun, kasi iba ang preferred way ko ng pag-worship. Imbes na manghusga ako sa iba dahil lang sa di ko sila preferred, eh di lalayo na lang ako at hanapin kung saan ako malayang makapag-worship sa paraan na gusto ko.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: KUBETA on September 02, 2013, 06:03:14 PM
hindi yung pagka inggit nya kay abel ang naging dahilan kung bakit di kinalugdan ang handog or hain nya..you mean God wasn't pleased with his offerings...dahil na Envy siya kay Abel?  mukang ikaw ata nawawala bro...later part na yang sinasabi mo eh...  sigurado kaba inggit talaga dahilan?

paano mo sasabihing christiano ka kung wala kang paki alam sa mga detalye sa Bible?  paano mo pala ipagtatanggol faith mo pag naka enkwentro ng mga kagaya ng atheista na gustong igiba paniniwala mo sa Dios... eh puro tungkol sa music nalang pala alam mo nyan... sasabihin wala ka paki sa looks ni kristo kaya siguro hindi morin tanggap yung sinabi nya sa I Corinto 11:14?.... sabi ko na yang mga sagot mo base sa sarili mong paniniwala... kung wala karin pala paki sa mga detalye tungkol sa Biblia...edi may dahilan din para hindi pagkatiwalaan mga paliwanag mo about sa Bible?...

may batas ang Dios sa ibat-ibang panahon... dati pwede pa mag-asawa ng higit sa isa..
yung tungkol kay Samson pasok parin yan...kasi dipa panahon ni Kristo yan... ano susundin mo luma o bagong tipan? kaya nga pagdating ni Kristo napakarami nyang binago kasi marami syang nakitang pagkukulang sa lumang tipan...

tungkol naman sa kultura na sinasabi mo sa panahon nila... may makikita ba doon na mga longhair na lalake sa panahon ni Kristo? sigurado syempre meron... kaso ang dimo ata na pansin eh  sa I Corinto 11:14 patungkol yan sa loob ng Iglesia nya...  kaya sa loob ng Iglesia mula sa panahon ni Kristo hindi nya sinasang  ayunan long-hair basta kasapi ka sa samahan nila... di mo pwede sabihin yung I Corinto 11:14 hindi tungkol sa looks yan..eh ano kaya itatawag ko jan...?

ngayon kung idadamay natin lahat ng nabuhay mula sa panahon ni Kristo na naging mahalay look tignan dahil I Corinto 11:14 ... well depende.. kasi kahit sa panahon ngayon may mga taga bundok na wala namang Idea at alam sa Biblia kaya may pribilehiyo pa Dios dun.. kaya sya bahala dun... pero yung kagaya satin na nakaranas nagkaroon pagkaalam sa salita ng Dios magiging pananagutan na ng taong naging walang paki-alam sa alituntunin nya... Yang batas ng Dios di gaya ng sa tao na pag-taga bundok at nag J-walking ka eh kakasuhan kasi hindi mo muna pinag aralan ang batas sa syudad... saka ka hahatulan ng Dios na pag yung bagay na alam mo na eh sinadya mo pa... ngayon pwede ba kitang hatulan? hindi parin siguro kasi halatang pagkukulang ng kung sino mang Pastor mo yan... na dahil kulang sa kaalamang Biblia kaya pati kayo naidamay sa paniniwala nya...

Tama ka walang dapat humusga ng KAPWA nya kasi wala tayong kakayahang bumasa ng puso ng bawat isa... eh paano naman kung may mabuting TAO halimbawa friend mo matuwid sa paningin na kahit dalawa asawa napag-aral nya parehas mga anak sa magkabila, parehas din may malaking bahay sasakyan na kung titimbang eh di sya nagkulang pagbibigay ng panga-ngailangan...mabuti yun kung Hatol pang-tao paguusapan..pero sa batas ng Dios may pananagutan sya..ang turo kasi dapat isa lang...kaya dapat hayaan nyang magasawa yung pangalawa at kasamhin yun nauna.....ibig kong sabihin sa kwentong yan kahit walang kakayahang bumasa Tayo ng Puso at Intensyon ng tao.... may palatutunan na dapat ipasunod kaya pwede tayong humatol ayon sa batas ni Kristo...ginagawa ng mga Christiano yan dati pa kaya nga may tinitiwalag sa kanila pag di nkkasunod sa pamantayang kristyano... kaya dimo pwede ikatwiran palagi na dahil wala kang kakayayahang bumasa ng isip at puso ng tao kaya magiging wala kanarin paki-alam sa LooKs ng Christiano...

yung T-shirt at Maong sa lalake pasok yan di naman MAHALAY sa lalake kung dirin lang naman masikip at bumabakat... pero yung fitted i apply mo sa babae ewan ko sayo di MAHALAY tignan sayo?  kasi kahit ako totoong usapan pagnakaka kita ng ganya bilang lalake nag iiba pakiramdam ko... kaya kahit anong brand, quality, at type ng t-shirt at maong pa sabihin mo....may tama at ayos na pananamit sa Christiano... di naman siguro mahirap ipaliwanag at ipakita sayo kung alin ang mahinhin sa mahalay tignan..


Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on September 02, 2013, 09:49:21 PM
@KUBETA looks like we are in a debate na maliit pa lang ako pinag-uusapan na at kahit hanggang ngayong pastor na ako ay di pa rin nagkaroon ng pagkakaunawaan ang Kristiyano tungkol dito. Ayoko na palawakin pa ang topic na to dahil lumalayo na tayo sa topic at malamang sa malamang, sa haba ng mga sagot natin, baka tayong dalawa na lang ang nagbabasa ng mga sagot natin.

I respect your opinion about what you stand for. And I pray that even if we differ in many aspects in our faith, God will continue to bless us and keep us healthy and strong for His greater Glory.

God bless you.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: KUBETA on September 03, 2013, 07:09:23 PM
Yes Bro! tama ka dati pa never ng nagkakaunawaan ang tao tungkol sa paniniwala nila... kahit noon pa sa panahon ni Moises may kanya-kanya ng paniniwala ang tao sa Dios... kaya pagdating ni KRISTO hirap na hirap syang ipa-kain sa mga tao yung mga Aral na gusto nya... kaya mahirap ng umasa lalo sa panahon ngayon magkakaisa ang lahat ng religion kahit iisa ang Biblia na ginagamit... may tao kasi may sariling interpretasyon sa Biblia kahit di naman nya talaga naiintindihan binabasa nya....ang pwede nalang guide na sundin natin eh yung mga paalala Kristo...

1 Juan 4
Mga minamahal, huwag ninyong paniwalaan ang bawat espiritu, sa halip, subukin muna ninyo ang mga espiritu kung sila ay mula sa Diyos sapagkat maraming bulaang propeta ang naririto na sa sanlibutan. 2 Sa ganitong paraan ninyo malalaman ang Espiritu ng Diyos


siya na kasi mismo nakaka alam sa panahon nya na maraming ng pekeng guro, propeta(katumbas nyan mga religious leader sa panahon ngayon)... na iisa rin ang Dios na sinasabi ng bibig nila pero magkakaiba sila ng gawa at paniniwala.... kaya nasabi nya SUBUKIN MO, utos yan... kaya hindi ka nagkakasala kung sinusubukan mo leader mo..wag lang siguro maangas ang dating.. ang katumbas nyan eh... alamin mo, wag kang pa brain wash lang... wag kang papayag na siya lang palagi nagsasalita, nagkukuwento, nagtuturo ng faith sa inyo... tapos pag tinanong mo walang maisagot... sa Biblia walang mga leader sa Biblia na hindi marunong sumagot... kaya nga si Kristo sinubok sa lahat ng bagay lalo na sa tanungan, si esteban pinatay din dahil di manalo sa diskusyon mga kalaban nya... naranasin din ng mga apostol yan.. gawin silang pagkain ng leon... mga kilalang Religious leader ngayon magsalita lang ng kahit Godbless you all .. nagpapalakpakan na agad mga members kahit wala naman natutunan... paulit ulit na ganun nalang... hindi nag improve kaalaman nila sa faith... ang laging common na alam lang eh namatay si Kristo sa krus para tubusin tayo sa kasalanan... dun nlang laging napapako hindi na umuusad..

wag kana pong magtaka kung bakit ang Biblia pinagtatalunan.... lahat kasi ng bagay sa mundo na MAHALAGA or IMPORTANTE talagang pinagtatalunan...
*magandang babae = pinag-aagawan
*pwesto sa pagka-presidente = pinag-aawayan, kanya-kanyang siraan pa nga eh..
wala pa akong nakita ni nabalitaan sa TV at Radyo na
*pwesto sa pagka Janitor pinagtalunan
Kaya patunay yan kung gaano kahalaga ang Biblia kumpara sa ibang religious book...

ang Debate eh parang Competition... hindi ba sa mga Beauty Pageant nagkaka alaman kung sino talaga Sexy at Maganda kapag pinagg dikit dikit na... Ganun din pagdatin sa Korte... para magka hulian kung sino nagsasabi ng totoo... yung dalawang panig nagbabangaan... Ewan ko bakit sa pagdating sa FAITH eh mukang againts sila pag  may religious debate... ... dun nga nila malalamn kung sino sinungaling na guro eh... samantalang kaluluwa na ang pinaguusapan jan... di nila maintindi gravity nun... di nila naiintindihan ang bigat at halaga ng mailigaw ka....

parang ganito... pag dito sa mundo nabuhay ka ng mahirap, inaalipin kapa, kapos ka sa lahat ng bagay tapos pag dating sa pag huhukom eh paparusahan kapa dahil lang sa maling pag-gawa at paniniwala... napaka unfair nun... kahit mabuhay ka ng 1000yrs sa mundo hindi mo maitutumbas 1000yrs vs never ending  na parusa...  at yan ang dahilan kung bakit yung mga naunang kilalang Tao sa Bible nakikipagtalo sa pananampalataya kahit mapatay sila... sila mismo kasi nakaka intindi kung gaano kahalaga ang buhay ng tao ke basura kalang sa mundo...

Anyway atleast OPEN ka bro.. Salamat... may iba kasi dito pipilosopohin ka pag naramdaman nilang masasakal sila about sa religion...ayoko rin naman ng nakikipag debate... kaso minsan kelangan eh... lalo na pag sinusubok sa mga tanong... yan kasi natutunan ko sa leader namin... wag maging mang-mang para di mailigaw...

Nice meeting you here Bro!... lalayo na talaga tayo sa Topic pag lumalim pa tayo... same to you GOD bless you...



Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: washburny on September 10, 2013, 11:28:12 AM
Di ko masagot kung ano ang preference na genre ng AMA. Pero yung title na IT DEPENDS UPON THE CONGREGATION eh may opinion ako dyan. Opinion nlang ang term na gagamitin ko para may notion na tama o may chance na mali.  Hiramin ko nalang yung sentence na nabasa ko sa FB dati, "If there's any one that we need to please, that is GOD".

Corporate worship is not SHOW BUSINESS. The worship team are not performers...

We are not playing church... Sadly, a lot of modern church ministers are now becoming marketing tacticians utilizing entertainment disguised as worship.  Let's leave the conviction job to the Holy Spirit to touch the members/visitors to stay or to go elsewhere. If majority of the people come to church with reasons other than to worship in spirit and in truth and hear the WORD, then it cannot be called a church worship service. Itís just a crowd assembly attempting to get approval from God.  Similar to the gathering of the crowd who followed Jesus to see Him in action during His miraculous ministry. They were not His followers but mere crowds.
Worship time, should be upward giving. Itís not the time to lift our issues and concerns (Thereís another time for that purpose). Itís not about us, itís about Jesus. If we cry, dance or jump, it should be because we want to glorify God and not because it feels s so good and because it gives us a food impression to the people surrounding us. Thereís no place in being full of our self during worship.  Jumping, shouting and dancing may produce chemical reactions inside our body that can produce a ďfeel goodĒ substance.  Letís not allow it to rob us the chance to focus on the real essence of worship. It should never be about us. So whenever we dance, shout and jump, letís make sure that itís not for our own benefit.  The result of genuine worship is JOY and not the temporary emotion feel good that most members of the crowd are seeking.  If the feel good sensation is not there, they are not there anymore. Genuine follows of Christ are satisfied with pure Joy from the Holy Ghost.  Pure JOY does not require any emotions to be activated. It prompts us to offer our bodies as living sacrifice and our sacrifices of praise and thanks giving whole heartedly. Whether may kilabot factor o wala, worship time will never be described as dry.

So, the next time we want to feel good or satisfied or accommodated, there are other places that can cater for that other than the P & W Ministry. The same desires that I stated should be our goal to offer the Father than for our personal consumption.

Reminder:  Outside our role as member of the P & W team, without the material instruments in our hands, our methods of worship should be coming from our main instrument, the Ē heartĒ. The heart of worship is not just music; itís the kind of life that we are living out of obedience to PLEASE THE KING.

Do we all agree that the main objective of our worship is to please our KING?
Letís ask this question every time we are standing in front of the congregation, are we still experiencing JOY even though we are not getting our way in playing your  playlist? Our personal satisfaction is insignificant at this point. I assure you, our act of submission and yielding will produce the JOY of serving God and his people. It's way far better that feeling good...

Note: I did not attempt to comment sa personal choices of songs ng iba, kasi wala ako gift to look into people's heart if anu ang motives whether pleasing kay Lord or not. Yung principle of worship nalang ako nag opinion. Pwedeng mali ako...
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: skyjammer on September 10, 2013, 01:15:13 PM
Di ko masagot kung ano ang preference na genre ng AMA. Pero yung title na IT DEPENDS UPON THE CONGREGATION eh may opinion ako dyan. Opinion nlang ang term na gagamitin ko para may notion na tama o may chance na mali.  Hiramin ko nalang yung sentence na nabasa ko sa FB dati, "If there's any one that we need to please, that is GOD".

Corporate worship is not SHOW BUSINESS. The worship team are not performers...

We are not playing church... Sadly, a lot of modern church ministers are now becoming marketing tacticians utilizing entertainment disguised as worship.  Let's leave the conviction job to the Holy Spirit to touch the members/visitors to stay or to go elsewhere. If majority of the people come to church with reasons other than to worship in spirit and in truth and hear the WORD, then it cannot be called a church worship service. Itís just a crowd assembly attempting to get approval from God.  Similar to the gathering of the crowd who followed Jesus to see Him in action during His miraculous ministry. They were not His followers but mere crowds.
Worship time, should be upward giving. Itís not the time to lift our issues and concerns (Thereís another time for that purpose). Itís not about us, itís about Jesus. If we cry, dance or jump, it should be because we want to glorify God and not because it feels s so good and because it gives us a food impression to the people surrounding us. Thereís no place in being full of our self during worship.  Jumping, shouting and dancing may produce chemical reactions inside our body that can produce a ďfeel goodĒ substance.  Letís not allow it to rob us the chance to focus on the real essence of worship. It should never be about us. So whenever we dance, shout and jump, letís make sure that itís not for our own benefit.  The result of genuine worship is JOY and not the temporary emotion feel good that most members of the crowd are seeking.  If the feel good sensation is not there, they are not there anymore. Genuine follows of Christ are satisfied with pure Joy from the Holy Ghost.  Pure JOY does not require any emotions to be activated. It prompts us to offer our bodies as living sacrifice and our sacrifices of praise and thanks giving whole heartedly. Whether may kilabot factor o wala, worship time will never be described as dry.

So, the next time we want to feel good or satisfied or accommodated, there are other places that can cater for that other than the P & W Ministry. The same desires that I stated should be our goal to offer the Father than for our personal consumption.

Reminder:  Outside our role as member of the P & W team, without the material instruments in our hands, our methods of worship should be coming from our main instrument, the Ē heartĒ. The heart of worship is not just music; itís the kind of life that we are living out of obedience to PLEASE THE KING.

Do we all agree that the main objective of our worship is to please our KING?
Letís ask this question every time we are standing in front of the congregation, are we still experiencing JOY even though we are not getting our way in playing your  playlist? Our personal satisfaction is insignificant at this point. I assure you, our act of submission and yielding will produce the JOY of serving God and his people. It's way far better that feeling good...

Note: I did not attempt to comment sa personal choices of songs ng iba, kasi wala ako gift to look into people's heart if anu ang motives whether pleasing kay Lord or not. Yung principle of worship nalang ako nag opinion. Pwedeng mali ako...
Couldn't agree more. Thanks for the share bro. Although I'd like to believe it's more than pleasing the King because with our imperfection, I don't think we can ever please Him. I see it more of a declaration of our allegiance, commitment and love for Him versus obeying to please Him. Let me know if I'm missing something. Nonetheless, you're saying many points here that make a lot of sense. God bless you.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: washburny on September 10, 2013, 08:03:51 PM
Couldn't agree more. Thanks for the share bro. Although I'd like to believe it's more than pleasing the King because with our imperfection, I don't think we can ever please Him. I see it more of a declaration of our allegiance, commitment and love for Him versus obeying to please Him. Let me know if I'm missing something. Nonetheless, you're saying many points here that make a lot of sense. God bless you.

Noted,pastor. I definitely agree that we cannot please Him on our own accord. Yes, there's more to it than obedience (I stand corrected).... we were created to worship the everlasting Father at the first place.  I am sure that you would agree that the same reason that enable us to stand and minister in spite of our imperfections also allow us to please Him. I am talking about grace (not the cheap one). God no longer sees our imperfections because He can now see the righteousness of Christ in us. The desire and effort to "obey" is a manifestation of our allegiance, commitment and love for Him  (For me this is a higher form of worship). I consider the opportunity to Worship Him as the real unmerited favor from above. The disobedience of the chosen people allowed us to be grafted (YES!)

Allow me go back to the topic by posting the following links:

Sounds familiar?
http://imageshack.com/a/img545/5323/v6za.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img20/6168/ldty.jpg

Use this tool for enlightenment...
http://imageshack.com/a/img17/9209/90d3.jpg
The BOOK can give better answers I believe  :)

Share ko din personal journey ko... para mas maintindihan ng mga kabataan isang actual experience ng kapatiran na may edad sa congregation...

Dati, when I was younger in age and in faith, i left our Evangelical congregation because I felt an urge to practice Pentecostal ways of Worship.

Now that I am on my 40's, I realized that my preference do change in time. I am more moderate and in season (I supposed).

I relate better to slower deeper songs than the fast beat heavy songs that I really enjoyed.
Now,I still long for the fast Victory marching song and slow worship songs that we sang during my younger days. I found their scripture based lyrics more meaningful  and enlightening than the modern contemporary songs based on the composers experience and interpretation of biblical revelations. Eto mga preferred line up ko kung ako ang masususnod sa Worship purposes. Yung mga modern contemporary music like planet shakers o hellsong (ay Hillsong pala) mas gusto ko sa car o sa bahay ko nalang pinapakinggan for declaration and warfare purposes. I feel na may mga songs kasi na di talaga pang corporate worship. Mas intended for self edification and live performances.

Yan po ang isang angulo ng isang kapatiran na nagkaka edad na.Please relate din to some of us. heheh (I am not generalizing here pala)  :)

Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: ken14 on September 11, 2013, 12:34:21 PM
Ganyan din kami noon sir, laging iniisip magugustuhan kaya ito ng mga tao, pano pag nag kamali nakakahiya naman, and napansin ko kahit marurunong kami im not saying magagaling kami pero may knowledge kami and experience kahit papano sa music, pero kahit anong gawin mo yung mga tao, wala parang poste lang. Tapos ayun tumatak sakin yung sinabi ng isang pastor samin na, "Bago kayo mag practice ng mga ginagawa nyo dyan sa mga instruments nyo, tignan nyo muna yung puso nyo at sarili nyo kung kalugod lugod ba kayo sa harapan ng Dyos" So ayun po ako nag karoon ako ng personal devotion ko, bago kami mag start ng practice o kahit saan nag ddevotion muna kami. At yung resulta grabe po, dun mo makikita kung pano durugin ng Dyos yung mga pusong bato, magugulat ka nalang nag iiyakan na sila nakataas kamay, naka luhod grabe po talaga. Pag nandun po talaga ang presensya ng Dyos kahit di kayo mga professional or full time musicians, talagang mag fflow yung kabutihan ng Dyos. Noon tumutugtog ako naka steady lang boring ahaha joyfull songs naka tayo lang ahaha.. Pero ngayon I can dance and sing habang nag gguitar dahil sa goodness ng Dyos, ngayon po talaga excited ako lagi na mag sunday na, yung pananabik bumabalik ulit. Nakaka relate po ako sobra sa inyo kasi kami talagang grabe din mga problema sa team, Kaya ako ginawa ko noon hindi nalang ako uma-attend sa ibang church para syempre maiwasan ko po yung pag kkumpara sa mga gamit at musicians namin sa simbahan nila. Godbless sir
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: muskratdoug on November 02, 2015, 04:52:45 PM
Ii's been 2 yrs since I've posted on this topic, and its sad to say that most of our leaders are still very conservative with the  choice of music/worship to use in our church, they are very strict only to use biblical song only, no inspirational songs, any songs by Hillsong, tommy walker, israel houghton, planetshakers, etc.  are much as possible opposed, simply because they could not relate to it, they are very bias, it boarders daw to "entertainment", maski iyng mga original compositions ng MD namin hindi pinapansin. I feel so Dishearten, disappointed, pero we have to follow as obedient servants. So I just lend my talents as a musician to session in different communities sa mga music ministry nila, but still not leaving my main church. When they found out about it, wala silang magawa, bec there is no rule not to serve in other church communities. I not being disloyal bec I serve my church diligently , only that my services goes beyond our church walls.
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: NTM on November 03, 2015, 11:04:15 AM
Ii's been 2 yrs since I've posted on this topic, and its sad to say that most of our leaders are still very conservative with the  choice of music/worship to use in our church, they are very strict only to use biblical song only, no inspirational songs, any songs by Hillsong, tommy walker, israel houghton, planetshakers, etc.  are much as possible opposed, simply because they could not relate to it, they are very bias, it boarders daw to "entertainment", maski iyng mga original compositions ng MD namin hindi pinapansin. I feel so Dishearten, disappointed, pero we have to follow as obedient servants. So I just lend my talents as a musician to session in different communities sa mga music ministry nila, but still not leaving my main church. When they found out about it, wala silang magawa, bec there is no rule not to serve in other church communities. I not being disloyal bec I serve my church diligently , only that my services goes beyond our church walls.

Eto ang malungkot. Pagpray mo bro maigi na mas makita nila yung side ng "love and worship" kesa yung masyadong "religious". I'm not against those people who are too religious, pero minsan yung mga ganong tao yung nilalayuan. Lage may nakikitang mali sa iba. Always quoting bible verses to support their argument. Seriously, we must stop that attitude. As Christian we must show love and be opened sa mga bagay bagay ngayon. Iba na ang generation, panahon ngayon.
Our church came from a Baptist church, hymnals kung hymnals talaga. bawal pumalakpak, sayaw, talon, etc. Most of our members medyo may edad na. But as time goes by, nagbabago eh. Early 2000's we acquire a drumset, 2010 nagkaroon na ng amps, pedals, electric guitar etc. At first, ayaw ng pastor, ng mga members. naninibago. Pero since then, mas dumami yung youth, mas naging open lahat.

I love Hillsong, Planetshakers, Jesus Culture, etc. Madame nagsasabi na mababaw daw biblical foundation ng mga kanta nila. But after all, it's our worship to God, it's our connection with God. I'd rather chose a song na mababaw biblical foundation but can save and lift up someone's soul rather than a complete biblical-oriented song but can only be sung by church leaders. Please don't get me wrong with my statement. Mas importante kasi sakin na makilala ng mga tao kung sino si Lord sa buhay nila through songs, kesa naman bawalan mga ganung kanta at ipilit yung masyadong luma na hindi na makakanta ng mga bagong generation ngayon.
I saw a lot of young people, new members, falling down in worship with new Hillsong songs. Well, I believe that's still worship.  :)
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: Poundcake on November 12, 2015, 08:31:32 PM
Eto ang malungkot. Pagpray mo bro maigi na mas makita nila yung side ng "love and worship" kesa yung masyadong "religious". I'm not against those people who are too religious, pero minsan yung mga ganong tao yung nilalayuan. Lage may nakikitang mali sa iba. Always quoting bible verses to support their argument. Seriously, we must stop that attitude. As Christian we must show love and be opened sa mga bagay bagay ngayon. Iba na ang generation, panahon ngayon.
Our church came from a Baptist church, hymnals kung hymnals talaga. bawal pumalakpak, sayaw, talon, etc. Most of our members medyo may edad na. But as time goes by, nagbabago eh. Early 2000's we acquire a drumset, 2010 nagkaroon na ng amps, pedals, electric guitar etc. At first, ayaw ng pastor, ng mga members. naninibago. Pero since then, mas dumami yung youth, mas naging open lahat.

I love Hillsong, Planetshakers, Jesus Culture, etc. Madame nagsasabi na mababaw daw biblical foundation ng mga kanta nila. But after all, it's our worship to God, it's our connection with God. I'd rather chose a song na mababaw biblical foundation but can save and lift up someone's soul rather than a complete biblical-oriented song but can only be sung by church leaders. Please don't get me wrong with my statement. Mas importante kasi sakin na makilala ng mga tao kung sino si Lord sa buhay nila through songs, kesa naman bawalan mga ganung kanta at ipilit yung masyadong luma na hindi na makakanta ng mga bagong generation ngayon.
I saw a lot of young people, new members, falling down in worship with new Hillsong songs. Well, I believe that's still worship.  :)

Bro, substance is more important than form. You can never discount the importance of the doctrinal soundness of whatever you're singing. You are declaring those lyrics not only to God and to yourself but also to everybody in the congregation. Songs with "mababaw na Biblical foundation" aren't serving their purpose in "uplifting someone's soul" what the lyrics mean may not really be what the Biblical text they're based on are saying. Worship isn't necesarily happily jumping up and down or getting slain/falling down on your knees; what's important is that there is continual transformation in our hearts so that we can be more Christ-like with each passing day. Because after all, worship is a response to God's goodness and mercy to us. That is made manifest in our lives and not just during P&W time.

Mi dos centavos, hermano. Dios te bendiga :)
Title: Re: Its depend upon the congregation.
Post by: NTM on November 13, 2015, 09:41:08 AM
Bro, substance is more important than form. You can never discount the importance of the doctrinal soundness of whatever you're singing. You are declaring those lyrics not only to God and to yourself but also to everybody in the congregation. Songs with "mababaw na Biblical foundation" aren't serving their purpose in "uplifting someone's soul" what the lyrics mean may not really be what the Biblical text they're based on are saying. Worship isn't necesarily happily jumping up and down or getting slain/falling down on your knees; what's important is that there is continual transformation in our hearts so that we can be more Christ-like with each passing day. Because after all, worship is a response to God's goodness and mercy to us. That is made manifest in our lives and not just during P&W time.

Mi dos centavos, hermano. Dios te bendiga :)

Yes sir. I got your point. :) But I do believe that Hillsong still check their songs before they include and release it on their album. Lots of revisions and change sa lyrics and melody ng kanta.... based sa napanood at nabasa kong blogs nila. Pero nagtataka lang ako sa ibang pastor na hindi parin tanggap yung mga kanta nila. I believe and will always stay sa mga kanta na dapat may biblical foundation, pero saying na walang biblical foundation yung mga songs ng mga bagong Christian artist like Hillsong and Jesus Culture is somehow may pagka-bias.
May iba na mas pinipilit parin sa church nila na hindi dapat isama mga ganong kanta. Dun lang ako nalulungkot.. hehehe.

Salamat po. :)