New approach...

[Milo]

Hmmm..

New apporach....
Check natin..

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/musicians/new_approach.jsp
         

[Tarkuz Toccata]

Luma na yan...

Basahin mo ito...

[KitC]

I was looking for the Keyboard mag review... it was ok naman. Pricey...

[Milo]

Luma na yan...

Basahin mo ito...

Ay!..onga noh!!?...hehhehe

Anyway...matagal na ako nde dumadaan sa mall...I haven't seen these units..
Pero sana meron na dito sa atin ...and may demo sila.  

[BALDO]

mga SIR, actually HEARD that speaker in SAM ASH and i would say IT REALLY ROCKS!!!! i forgot the model number.. i think it is CS1.. VERY IMPRESSIVE.. better than an 802 which i have. the interesting thing about this speaker is that you can point a mic ( in the demo an SM58 was used) in the direction of the speaker and virually have no FEEDBACK!!! also i have noticed is it is so lifelife..    and yes as what kitC said PRICEY~!~

[Tarkuz Toccata]

the interesting thing about this speaker is that you can point a mic ( in the demo an SM58 was used) in the direction of the speaker and virually have no FEEDBACK!!!

this is an old trick that can be done on ANY well-tuned sound reinforcement system.

[BALDO]

sir tarkuz, really no tricks employed... just sheer advanced technological knowhow from Bose engineering.. no other speaker on the planet ( i think) can do that mic feedback experiment - pointing the mic just A FEW INCHES FROM THE SPEAKER CABINET with moderately loud settings on the amp..
 

[jplacson]

It's called the L1.

We rent it out for events, bands, and other functions.

It's a line-array.  Similar to JBL's Vertec on a smaller scale.

It's not feedback proof, it's just more resistant.  It's like holding the mic 1 foot farther away (compared to a regular point source speaker)

It's not new technology, Bose is just the first to make it this small.  All line-arrays behave the same way.  Anchor Audio made one too, but I heard it and it sounds horrible.

**added** sounds much better when used with Shure's Beta series.  The higher sensitivity of the Beta mics allow for lower gain settings on the trim on the L1 base.

I suggest joining the L1 forums on the Bose website.  Or just read through... musicians, and well as DJs use it.

***another PS***  OMG, baldo, I'm surprised those guys at Sam Ash knew how to handle the L1... I checked it out at GC before, and OMG... if I was to base my purchase on that demo, hahahaha... the system was sooo noisy (turned out to be their outboard rack in the store... the XLR cables were old and cracking already and would pick up the flourescent lights) plus they had really bad CDs to test it with... all they had were some employees homemade demos which were like some low bitrate MP3.

For those interested in the system, just ask me.

[Tarkuz Toccata]

sir tarkuz, really no tricks employed... just sheer advanced technological knowhow from Bose engineering.. no other speaker on the planet ( i think) can do that mic feedback experiment - pointing the mic just A FEW INCHES FROM THE SPEAKER CABINET with moderately loud settings on the amp..

Okay, maybe "trick" is not the right word but I find nothing fantastic about their anti-feedback feature. It's not the speaker alone. It's the system. Feedback can be prevented by employing notch filters, graphic eq, parametric eq or other similar signal processor. Ringing the system and taking some time to do a proper sound check shall produce the same result. Any well-tuned system will not feedback even when pointing the mic a few inches from the speaker cabinet with moderately loud setting on the amp. 

[BALDO]

JP
actually a guy from Bose did the demo and he used a DVD hence it has  better sound quality..  the guys from Sam Ash knows s#&t about the system hehehe. One guy was trying to sell me an Apogee Ensemble before  even though i told him i had a PC.. 

[jplacson]

JP
actually a guy from Bose did the demo and he used a DVD hence it has  better sound quality.

Hahahaha... ok that explains a lot.

Just a little note, Paul Schaffer uses on on the Late Show.

[glassjaw_jc]

Very interesting... The problems mentioned in the Bose site are the ones I exactly encounter when I'm on stage and off stage.. Mas worse pag onstage, totally disoriented ako sa sound source. Most of the time, I go home being frustrated. Pag audience naman ako, parang naka phaser na yung speakers pag malayo ka na. Although I experience these things on large venues and open area gigs lang.

[jplacson]

glassjaw, exactly.  But like sir Tarkuz said, any properly tuned system will not exhibit the same problems.  All Bose did was make it easier to accoplish this task in smaller (500 or less) venues.  Larger venues call for arrays like the JBL Vertec (Bose's counterpart is the MA4, but this is a fixed install system) and a full rack of DSPs and outboard processors.

[glassjaw_jc]

Yeah, but tuning a sound system requires time. Most open area gigs and shows at large venues are one timers and they don't have the luxury of time unless they setup a day or two before the event. Parang yung sa Incubus. Para lang ako nakikinig sa component sa bahay except that madaming makulit na tao 

[jplacson]

Yup, that's the beauty of the Bose system... setup time is virtually eliminated since the system is integrated.

[Tarkuz Toccata]

Yeah, but tuning a sound system requires time. Most open area gigs and shows at large venues are one timers and they don't have the luxury of time unless they setup a day or two before the event. Parang yung sa Incubus. Para lang ako nakikinig sa component sa bahay except that madaming makulit na tao 

Yeah, I see that some of you guys are easily impressed by Bose's marketing presentation. I must admit that they are really very good at doing product presentations and demos, however, they don't tell you the complete story. Some technical specifications like loudspeaker sensitivity are not mentioned. Their ToneMatch feature is just some preset eq curves for particular instruments and mics only. What about the effect of room acoustics?!? You still need to tune the sound system to make it sound right, hehehe! Large venues? Sound from their short-throw loudspeaker can't reach the listeners at the back of the room because of its 180-degree dispersion. You can't fool the laws of physics!

Wow, ang ganda-ganda ng product presentation sa website at white paper nila ano! Parang ang dali-dali gamitin at perfect solution sa sound system problems natin. Marketing style ng Bose ang ipakita ang mga benefits ng produkto sa kustomer pero hindi naman nila sinasabi ang limitations ng produkto...

This sound system is for small churches and gigs (acoustic or "unplugged") in small venues that don't need high levels of sound reinforcement.

[Tarkuz Toccata]

Mas okey pa ito para sa mga band gigs in mid-sized venues...

http://www.jblpro.com/evo1/evo_main.htm

[jplacson]

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1506041054/m/5981040122

[BALDO]

Thanks JPL for the site. ( JBL??? hehehehe). i have been a Bose fan ever since  i love the L series but i got no use for it... i am happy with my 901's though, had it for several years now but i think my AMP is ready to retire any moment now. 

[glassjaw_jc]

Yeah, I see that some of you guys are easily impressed by Bose's marketing presentation. I must admit that they are really very good at doing product presentations and demos, however, they don't tell you the complete story. Some technical specifications like loudspeaker sensitivity are not mentioned. Their ToneMatch feature is just some preset eq curves for particular instruments and mics only. What about the effect of room acoustics?!? You still need to tune the sound system to make it sound right, hehehe! Large venues? Sound from their short-throw loudspeaker can't reach the listeners at the back of the room because of its 180-degree dispersion. You can't fool the laws of physics!

Wow, ang ganda-ganda ng product presentation sa website at white paper nila ano! Parang ang dali-dali gamitin at perfect solution sa sound system problems natin. Marketing style ng Bose ang ipakita ang mga benefits ng produkto sa kustomer pero hindi naman nila sinasabi ang limitations ng produkto...

This sound system is for small churches and gigs (acoustic or "unplugged") in small venues that don't need high levels of sound reinforcement.

Impressed?? Definitely! At the presentation?? Nah... I'm impressed at the concept. I'm not downplaying existing sound reinforcement formats. It's just that, I've experienced all of the problems they presented either as a performer or as an audience due mainly to lack of time to tune the system. Bose presented a quick-fix type of solution though with obvious limitations (like volume level for large venues). I don't even see it being used at large and open venues.

If the tonematch feature is just some EQ preset specific to certain instruments, then that means they should be practically transparent for that instrument. That means you should rarely touch the sound system. Plug and play baga. To adjust to the venue's acoustic response, you adjust your instrument's EQ or your amp's EQ or use the proper mic. If the room is boomy, tone down your lows or use a mic that doesn't boost the lowend.

For me, the solution answered all the problems Bose have presented, albeit not for all types of venue. 

[Tarkuz Toccata]

To adjust to the venue's acoustic response, you adjust your instrument's EQ or your amp's EQ or use the proper mic. If the room is boomy, tone down your lows or use a mic that doesn't boost the lowend.

Yes, the concept looks good but they don't give us the whole and exact information. That is what I don't like with Bose. I am still interested in their approach but I have doubts so I am not yet impressed.

There are very few live band musicians who have the discipline to control their own sound levels onstage. I was a professional musician also for many years (1981-2003) here and abroad so I know how difficult it is to please my bandmates and our audience at the same time.

Furthermore, what the stage performer hears at his or her position may not be what the audience is hearing. The performer's instrument may sound okay to him or her onstage but may sound thin or sound muddy at the audience's position due to the effect of room acoustics.

I think Bose should offer more specific applications of this product but it is really up to the user to find out what works for both performer and audience. Okay, I'm sorry that I criticized their product without actually trying it out yet.

[jplacson]

This is just me, but I honestly don't care much for specs if they don't translate to good audio.  I've heard crap coming from speakers (and systems) that have stellar specs on paper.  Not to say that I've heard anything good from systems with crap specs... but specs can be cheated much easier than a live demo.

Bose offers a 45-day trial period in the US... no questions.  You don't like it within 45 days, return it... full refund.  That's a much better deal than almost any other manufacturer out there.  You can actually gig with the thing for over a month, before deciding to keep it or not.

[Tarkuz Toccata]

This is just me, but I honestly don't care much for specs if they don't translate to good audio.

What is "good audio"?

 I've heard crap coming from speakers (and systems) that have stellar specs on paper.  Not to say that I've heard anything good from systems with crap specs... but specs can be cheated much easier than a live demo.

I don't think any reputable loudspeaker manufacturer would cheat on the technical specifications of their products. If a properly designed system failed to perform well, I'm afraid we probably have to fault the operator.