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Author Topic: Cymbal Sound Consistency  (Read 3109 times)

Offline glennaui

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Cymbal Sound Consistency
« on: April 17, 2011, 09:09:33 PM »
What can you say about the consistency of the sound of the leading brands in cymbal making...?

I have encountered it on Zildjians, especially K's... Kung minsan iba iba ang sound kahit same cymbals...
Then I have tried Paistes, napakaconsistent nila... kung anu sound nung usang cymbal, pag kumuha ka ng katulad nia, ganun pa rin... Thats what I really appreciate from them... Kahit mahal, every penny is worth it...!


Offline Riff_6603

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2011, 09:24:44 PM »
depending on how one looks at things, maganda din na may variation yung tunog ng cymbals even though it's the same make and model but then again, there are certain pros and cons talaga. I highly agree sa paistes though, plakado talaga ang pagkakagawa. :wink:

Offline dreddurius

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2011, 10:32:14 PM »
Ang maganda sa plakadong tunog ng cymbals ay alam mo na ang tunog at hindi ka na magpapagod na ipapalo sa shop ang cymbals. This applies mostly sa machine manufactured/lathed pies. Pero ang exciting sa mga hand-hammered pies ay may sarili ka talagang tunog na hindi mare-replicate ng iba. And applied in a musical context, talagang magiging connected kayo.
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Offline plep

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2011, 08:24:11 AM »
This applies mostly sa machine manufactured/lathed pies.

not necessarily. ang Zildjian ang pinaka-automated na ang manufacturing process, kaso sila pa rin ang pinakamalala ang kakulangan ng consistency (maliban sa mga chinese na brand, kaso ibang usapan na yun). sa kabilang dako naman, maraming proseso pa rin sa manufacturing ng Paiste ang mano-mano, kaso sobrang consistent nila.

sa quality control talaga nagkakatalo. ang Paiste, lumihis lang ng konti yung tunog ng isang cymbal mula doon sa dapat niyang model, tutunawin ulit yung cymbal na yun at back to start na lang.

yan yung nakakabwiset sa Zildjian e. pinopromote nila na individual cymbals should have individual character, kaso todo machine made naman sila, tamad lang sa quality control. kung automated kasi ang manufacturing mo, ayaw mo maraming backjob--gusto mo tuloy tuloy lang. so parang panakip-butas na lang na marketing ekek yun, para bawas din sila ng rejects sa manufacturing. tuloy lang sa paggawa, may bibili din naman niyan kahit panget, dahil may tatak ng Zildjian at dahil may "individual character" naman siya.

at kung ganun nga, eh di ang labo na andami nilang mga model, lalo na yung mga trendy stuff tulad ng Rezo at Hybrid. kung medyo tsamba-tsambahan lang rin pala ang tunog nila, bakit pa dadami nang ganun yung mga model? kung nakapikit ka ba, maririnig mo ba talaga yung pinagkaiba ng A Custom Projection sa Rezo at sa Medium Crash? ng K Custom Dark at K Custom Fast Crash? eh paiba-iba rin naman pala yung tunog e!

Offline mambo

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2011, 11:22:25 AM »
not necessarily. ang Zildjian ang pinaka-automated na ang manufacturing process, kaso sila pa rin ang pinakamalala ang kakulangan ng consistency (maliban sa mga chinese na brand, kaso ibang usapan na yun). sa kabilang dako naman, maraming proseso pa rin sa manufacturing ng Paiste ang mano-mano, kaso sobrang consistent nila.

sa quality control talaga nagkakatalo. ang Paiste, lumihis lang ng konti yung tunog ng isang cymbal mula doon sa dapat niyang model, tutunawin ulit yung cymbal na yun at back to start na lang.

yan yung nakakabwiset sa Zildjian e. pinopromote nila na individual cymbals should have individual character, kaso todo machine made naman sila, tamad lang sa quality control. kung automated kasi ang manufacturing mo, ayaw mo maraming backjob--gusto mo tuloy tuloy lang. so parang panakip-butas na lang na marketing ekek yun, para bawas din sila ng rejects sa manufacturing. tuloy lang sa paggawa, may bibili din naman niyan kahit panget, dahil may tatak ng Zildjian at dahil may "individual character" naman siya.

at kung ganun nga, eh di ang labo na andami nilang mga model, lalo na yung mga trendy stuff tulad ng Rezo at Hybrid. kung medyo tsamba-tsambahan lang rin pala ang tunog nila, bakit pa dadami nang ganun yung mga model? kung nakapikit ka ba, maririnig mo ba talaga yung pinagkaiba ng A Custom Projection sa Rezo at sa Medium Crash? ng K Custom Dark at K Custom Fast Crash? eh paiba-iba rin naman pala yung tunog e!

tingin ko dahil sa demand yan eh.. plus yung idea ng mass production. nawawala ang quality kung mass produced na.
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Offline pedaldeaf3

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 03:27:07 PM »
Interesting thread, akala ko factory defect agad if di same sounds ang same model...
So advantage ang same cymbals w/ a same size & brand but different sound???
Clueless ako talaga sa mga cymbals eh, kaya di ako ganon ka "choosy" sa pies...
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Offline makinao

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 07:48:37 PM »
Kanya kanyang estilo yan. May mga musiko na gusto ang consistency. Kung ano ang narinig sa dating cymbal, o sa website, o sa idol, o sa kaibigan, gusto niya ng kapareho. Kaya mahalaga sa kanya ang consistency.

Ako, baliktad. Naghahanap talaga ako ng mga pambihira. Kaya OK lang ako sa inconsistent. Ika nga, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Wala naman akong "brand loyalty", at hindi gaanong importante sa akin ang paraan ng pag-manufacture. Pero hindi nakakapagtaka na ang cymbals ko ngayon ay A.Zildjian (sa Turkish-style) at Stagg (sa China-style), dahil kilalang inconsistent ang mga ito. Di ko sinasabing pangit ang mga ibang tatak. Kung sa maganda, may mga maganda akong natugtog na Paiste (b8 at b20), Sabian, Meinl, atbp. Pero hindi ako nagka-interes bumili dahil hindi ko sila taste, at hindi sila pambihira. Kaya ka akin, hindi depekto ang pagkawala ng consistency.

May mga kaibigang akong drummer, sa tunog pa lang ng cymbals alam nila ako ang tumutugtog, o akin ang cymbal. Minsan, humihiram sila sa akin dahil hinahanap ang kakaibang tunog ng cymbals ko. Kung kaya bagama't di gaanong kamahal ang cymbals ko, mahalaga sila sa akin dahil nasa kanila ang aking pagkakakilanlan.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 08:12:02 PM by makinao »

Offline killikillers

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2011, 06:23:40 AM »
hindi kaya dahil yung isang cymbal mo medyo madumi na? or laspag, gamit, may maliit na dent, warped, may sticker sa may sticker sa ilalim, may kulangot na nanigas at nanuyo, etc.?

afaik, kase nakaka-affect to sa sound, pitch, sustain ng cymbal eh...

supposed to be consistent yung zildjian cymbals kase machine made sila diba?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 06:26:34 AM by killikillers »

Offline makinao

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 12:55:05 PM »
Cymbal making involves a lot of stages. Nowadays, some stages are automated, like heating, hammering, and labeling. But other stages, such as mixing, casting, and lathing, are still performed by warm-bodied craftsmen, and testing is still done with subjective human hands and ears. So even today, there are enough variables to make each cymbal unique. Despite Zildjian's (and AFAIK Sabian too) claims that it has "improved" its consistency, they also say that each cymbal is a unique musical instrument. Wuhans/Staggs, and Istanbuls (Mehmet, Agop, etc) are even more notorious for their inconsistencies. But again, this is something I accept, and even appreciate.

When I bought my A Zil 16" thin crash, there were three of the same in the store. I chose the one that sounded the way I liked. Within a couple of weeks, my two other drummer friends picked up the other two from the same store. Each of the cymbals sounded different. But each of us preferred the ones we got because we were chasing after different sounds. The same was true of our hihats. At one point we all had 14" New Beats. They all sounded different. But although we had bought them at different times from different stores, this didn't bother us because we wanted different sounds, and had gone through the trouble of selecting the ones that appealed to us sonically.

As I implied in a previous post, there are musicians who value "consistency", and I don't see anything inherently wrong with that. I understand how these musicians may become frustrated and impatient with the potentially laborious process of selecting cymbals, and would prefer to just walk into a store and expect a cymbal to sound exactly like what was heard in a company's website soundclip. But there are others, like me, who appreciate a subtle but audible level of distinctiveness in their chosen instruments from the get-go. Some people may achieve this by modification, but this is not my strategy when buying cymbals. I buy one because I liked its inherent sound characteristics. I'm also not discounting the fact that my pre-serial A's have changed subtly over the years, due to either by age, wear, damage, and probably even kulangot. And I'm sure my recent Stagg Chinas' sonic personality will evolve too. But these changes are only icing on the cake, because they were already unusual from the very start. Each of my cymbals were, and are, unique. That's what makes them not only valuable, but irreplaceable to me. And this is why I believe that "inconsistency" is not a defect.

Offline dreddurius

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2011, 03:50:31 PM »
Each of my cymbals were, and are, unique. That's what makes them not only valuable, but irreplaceable to me. And this is why I believe that "inconsistency" is not a defect.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Offline inigo

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 04:09:13 PM »
Consistency isn't too much of a problem for me, because.
1) I won't buy many pieces of the same cymbal anyways.
2) I haven't cracked a cymbal ever, so I haven't found the need to buy a replacement.
3) I'm not as picky in cymbal tones as I used to imagine myself to be.
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Offline plep

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 05:36:42 PM »
Actually, hindi naman talaga problema ang inconsistency per se. Yung panget lang ay:

(1) kung ginagawang marketing gimmick pa yung fact na naglalabas sila ng mga dud na cymbal.
(2) kung napapaasa ang mga tao na maganda ang certain model... tas wekwek lang kalalabasan.

Personally, I'm delighted that my A Medium Ride is NOWHERE near medium weight (it's 3160g, which is heavy), because it's perfect as it is. But it still remains a huge oversight on the part of Zildjian's manufacturing.

Offline vhinming

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 02:53:48 AM »
for me, ehem, for me lang po ^^D

may point si sir plep,

para saan pa ang iba ibang model ng cymbal, kung sa isang specific na model
eh nagkakaiba din naman ang mga tunog
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Offline zachki

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2011, 04:25:13 AM »
aarrrgg!!! parang nakakapangilabot tuloy mamili sa classifieds ng cymbals! -_-

Offline byako21

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2011, 01:37:31 PM »
ang lumalabas na lang kaya may model is the way they make,mix and hammer it. yun na lang ang mag dedefine ng characteristic ng cymbals. for me insconsistency is not a defect. it will make us drummer individually unique when it comes to playing. :mrgreen:

Offline powercharge

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Re: Cymbal Sound Consistency
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2011, 07:31:05 AM »
No two same model of cymbals will sound exactly alike but it will always share the same tonal characteristics. You can't go wrong with the cast bronze Zildjians and Sabians.