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Author Topic: TUNOG  (Read 4854 times)

Offline ken minneman

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TUNOG
« on: April 25, 2012, 06:11:37 AM »
read this on one of sir Michael Alba's Drum Lesson reviews:

"......In one of our lessons, I asked Mike what are the characteristics he looks for in a great drummer. Without thinking twice, he replied: “Tunog, pare, tunog.” He told me a drummer may not have amazing chops, but if he can bring out a solid sound out of his instrument, if his sound can create a deep groove and the right feel for the music, Mike would stay and listen to that drummer for a long time. "

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150118982744558&set=a.10150118981799558.287809.630609557&type=3&theater

Actually I've had the same question. And not just basic pero question in General. Pano ba gumawa ng magandang tunog sa Drums. Alam ko kasi kung maganda o hindi yung tunog ng  palo ng drummer. Pero yung sarili ko di ko masabi.. Wala akong drums (pa) sa bahay at mejo pangit yung drums namin sa church.. Kaya di ko ma gauge ng tama yung sarili ko.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s161/sh/23656eb1-6b0b-4493-8f2a-27878427aaff/4a31e46bada535ef30bf41ec3756036a

So I have this question, pano ba at pano mo ba masasabing maganda na yung tunog mo? How do you create a good sound and how can you tell?

Fills, Chops, groove, flashy stuff, timing.. given yan eh.. pero kahit meron ka nito masasabi mo bang maganda tunog mo?

What is your input with this guys? Pros, any opinion? I think eto yung una talagang pinaka masterin muna (pati timing) before anything else..  :mrgreen:
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Offline jckazs

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 04:08:17 PM »
Imo consistency ng volume (dynamics) at solid time. Importante din yung malinis...even, hindi rushed o dragged yung tunog. My 2 cents...

Offline dolfmen

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 05:40:37 PM »
Imo consistency ng volume (dynamics) at solid time. Importante din yung malinis...even, hindi rushed o dragged yung tunog. My 2 cents...

sakto yan dynamics nga yung nagpapalabas ng tunog ng drums lumalabas yung ibaibang "tunog" bawat palo.  :idea:

Offline Riff_6603

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 11:23:53 PM »
+1 sa dynamics. think of your playing like you're in a conversation. kung puro pasigaw, wala man lang proper diction or accents, most likely either bingi or lalayasan ka ng kausap mo. ganun din ang pagpapalabas ng tama or magandang tunog sa drums. dapat swabe ang timing, may mood at dynamics ang palo. nasa technique din yan kung paano mo papaluin ang drums mo to bring out the fundamental tone. ALWAYS REMEMBER, lahat ng drums merong sweet spot. knowing WHERE to hit it would definitely bring out your drum's potential. (sumagi bigla sa isip ko si steve gadd.. tasty!) :cool:

Offline harugrugrug

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 03:43:03 PM »
ang tunog e kahit hindi ka naka mic in sa sound system e maganda pa din ang groove mo.. dynamics is a must plus balance ng dynamics para my depth ang groove.. wala yan sa gear na unless talagang isang kalawang na lang e gigiba na snare mo.. nasa pulso yan.. kaya listen to your practice.. record your practice.. wag lang pabilisan ng chops e hindi mo naman mahanap yung downbeat di ba? (steve gadd din sumadi sa isip ko.hehe)
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Offline muziquero

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 04:19:59 PM »
May naala2 ako sa isang clinic ni sir mike.. Sabe nya sa pagpaptutunog daw.. Dapat ganito kung irarate yung volume..
7 Bass, 5, snare, tas 3 ata sa hi hats.. Di ko maalala yung exact.. Parang ganun daw dapat magpatunog..
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.. - Neil Peart (RUSH)

Offline ken minneman

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 02:27:05 AM »
May naala2 ako sa isang clinic ni sir mike.. Sabe nya sa pagpaptutunog daw.. Dapat ganito kung irarate yung volume..
7 Bass, 5, snare, tas 3 ata sa hi hats.. Di ko maalala yung exact.. Parang ganun daw dapat magpatunog..

Ayus ahh.. San niya daw nakuha yung Idea?? hehe...
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Offline Riff_6603

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 06:04:33 AM »
Ayus ahh.. San niya daw nakuha yung Idea?? hehe...

that's exactly the idea of dynamics. varied levels of volume to emphasize tone and emotion sa playing mo. check out carter beauford or steve gadd; kahit ano pa mangyari, swabe talaga ang tunog. infectious! :drool:

Offline ken minneman

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 06:36:58 AM »
Im a big fan of Carter Beauford.. but I admit.. wala akong masyadong Listening ni Steve Gadd.. sa pagkaka alam ko, 2 kanta lang ang alam kong siya pumalo.. yung "Funky chicken" tsaka "50 ways to leave your lover" baka may mga links kayo jan for listening para mapakinggan ko lagi palo niya.. More on Negro ngayon listening ko sir.. and Gospel.. More than Gospel, I think I need Gadd!  :wave:
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Offline zwischenzug

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 01:29:00 PM »
Siguro sa akin gaganda ang tunog mo kung meron kang control sa 3Ts.

1. Technique - (proper stick grips, drum tuning, hands and feet coordination/independence, dynamics, etc)
2. Time - learning to play right on time and sometimes when the situation calls for it, a bit off para may lagkit.
3. Temperament - controlling your feel for the music and knowing when to be flashy or just keep it plain and simple.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 01:32:11 PM by zwischenzug »

Offline jeff_proX40

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 09:36:03 AM »
Naalala ko yung snabi ni Dave Weckl sa Back to the basics, na magimbento ka ng tunog sa bibig mo.... More like groove, chops, fills, tapos iapply mo sa Drum Set mo.... Ang pagkakaintindi ko eh kung pano mo napatunog yung  inimbento mo gamit ang bibig at  imagination mo eh i try mo i apply sa drums.... Then compare yung inimagine mo sa actual drumming mo.... From there siguro malalaman mo kung maganda ba ang tunog mo o hindi... kasi minsan naiimagine mo na maganda pero di mo mapatunog na tulad ng iniisip mo, then you're goal is to get that imagination out with the same quality and sound your thinking into reality, of course with proper practice and technicalities sa pagtugtog.
Just let your music fill the empty spaces in you. It's all you have so take advantage of it. It's a gift!

Offline ken minneman

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 06:07:27 AM »
Naalala ko yung snabi ni Dave Weckl sa Back to the basics, na magimbento ka ng tunog sa bibig mo.... More like groove, chops, fills, tapos iapply mo sa Drum Set mo.... Ang pagkakaintindi ko eh kung pano mo napatunog yung  inimbento mo gamit ang bibig at  imagination mo eh i try mo i apply sa drums.... Then compare yung inimagine mo sa actual drumming mo.... From there siguro malalaman mo kung maganda ba ang tunog mo o hindi... kasi minsan naiimagine mo na maganda pero di mo mapatunog na tulad ng iniisip mo, then you're goal is to get that imagination out with the same quality and sound your thinking into reality, of course with proper practice and technicalities sa pagtugtog.



Astig tong Idea na to ah... Actually nung wala pa akong Ipod ginagawa ko na to.. pero sinusulat ko imbis na rinerecord yung naimagine ko... kung baga. . pak dugpapakdududupatudog bish... ganun... wahahaha... :wave:

Pero tip lang sa lahat.. (Yung may Mga smartphone.. Apple, Blackberry, Android) ang ginagawa ko ngayon para marecord yung exact sound ng imagination ko is the app SpringPad.. Kasi may option ka dun na marecord yung kahit ano gusto mo irecord.. picture, sound or pasulat... Plus you can access it sa kahit anong device mo including PC.. check this site out.. this WILL help.. (Better than Evernote.. ;)

http://springpad.com/#!/


 :)
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Offline tipsyboy

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 02:47:43 AM »
Since wala ka pang drums sa bahay, kung ok lang sa church mo, umupo ka sa likod ng drums mo at mag-experiment ka. A lot of people have a lot of good things to say, but remember that what works for them may not necessarily work for you all the time. Mag-experiment ka sa tuning, sa heads na ginagamit mo, sa sticks na ginagamit mo, sa part ng drum na pinapalo mo. Dynamics is a big thing, pero sa totoo lang, sobrang daming variables eh. It will take a book to try and articulate all the things that work for one guy, and even then, it might not work for you. So take a chance and experiment. Tune like crazy until you're happy with how your drums sound. Listen to how other drummers sound and keep all the stuff that you think can help you, para may improvement. Then experiment again. Play hard, play soft, play heavy, play light. Then play in a church service to see if you like how your experiment turned out. If not, then correct. It's a really never ending process, which is why it's fun.

And btw, it doesn't matter kung medyo pangit yung drums niyo sa church. Gaya nga ng sabi ni Sir Mike, ang magaling na drummer maganda magpatunog. A good drummer can always make a drum set sound better than it can. ;) I hope you find the sound you're looking for.

Offline yekoz

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2012, 03:50:19 PM »
Record your practice and performance, from there work out dynamics, grooves and fills.  8-)

Offline onori

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2012, 09:41:32 AM »
nice sir muziquero. sabi ni sir mike alba, para mas ma-groove ang palo mo ganito dapat ang volume mo: 7 (bass drums), 5 (snare drums), 4 (hi-hats).

eto yung sinasabi na 7-5-4

:)

Offline stickybeat

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2012, 10:06:11 AM »
+1 sa sinabi ng mga drummers dito. Dynamics, Technique, Groove, etc.

Gusto ko lang sana i-add: Pumapasok din ang listening dito. What you listen to will set the standard of what sounds good to you. Based on my own experience, by listening to groove-oriented styles of music like funk, soul, and gospel, I've been striving to create the same sound that I've been hearing in my listening sessions. Namamana ko yung musicality nung drummer na tumutugtog, kasama na yung dynamics, consistency, at groove. Pero hindi naman overall kinokopya ko. Iniincorporate ko lang siya sa sarili kong musicality.

Offline harugrugrug

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2012, 03:13:07 PM »
yung flow ng subdivision ng notes. if you play 16th note patterns e kelangan mafeel na 16th feel talaga yun.. hindi bako bako yung notes.. same with triplets. hindi purket flashy feel e hindi mo na iisipin yung subdivision.. plus syempre   mga sinabi above. hehe
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Offline ken minneman

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2012, 07:23:24 AM »
nice sir muziquero. sabi ni sir mike alba, para mas ma-groove ang palo mo ganito dapat ang volume mo: 7 (bass drums), 5 (snare drums), 4 (hi-hats).

:)


Like any practices on this, and would the dynamics be the same kapag half shot/ Rim Click yung hataw? Will there be changes..?

 :-D
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Offline incubus_boy08

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2012, 11:15:54 AM »
nice topic na naman. pa-subscribe...

Offline twisted

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2012, 12:17:20 PM »
Dynamics, note consistency and pocket..

Offline lupin

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2012, 06:19:22 PM »
Ayos itong topic na ito... May nagsabi din sa aking drummer, hindi kailangan flashy basta may groove. Meron daw kasing magandang pakinggan yung palo kahit puro drum pattern lang wala pang fills.

Offline _dax_

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2012, 05:10:13 AM »
Im a big fan of Carter Beauford.. but I admit.. wala akong masyadong Listening ni Steve Gadd.. sa pagkaka alam ko, 2 kanta lang ang alam kong siya pumalo.. yung "Funky chicken" tsaka "50 ways to leave your lover" baka may mga links kayo jan for listening para mapakinggan ko lagi palo niya.. More on Negro ngayon listening ko sir.. and Gospel.. More than Gospel, I think I need Gadd!  :wave:

Sir, pumalo siya para kay Eric Clapton, Chuck Mangione, David Sanborn and Chick Corea to name a few.

 
Ayos itong topic na ito... May nagsabi din sa aking drummer, hindi kailangan flashy basta may groove. Meron daw kasing magandang pakinggan yung palo kahit puro drum pattern lang wala pang fills.

Parang si Chad Smith sa mga simpleng grooves niya.

Toca Djembe 10" † LP Bongos † Darbuka † Ibanez Roadstar 2 Bass † Zoom RT 234 Drum Machine † Claves and Rain Sticks † Kubing † Bamboo Xylophone † Devil water chimes † Pearl Forum Fusion kit † Ibanez RG 370DX † 7 string Schecter Diamond Series †
GASSS

Offline paeng074

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Re: TUNOG
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2012, 03:02:53 AM »
ito sir nkahanap ako ng thread tungkol sa dynamic
What is Dynamic Drumming?

Dynamics as it relates to drumming, is the actual volume and power with which you play each of the "voices" of your drum kit. For example, you can play soft notes on your snare drum (aka "ghost notes"), or playing louder rim shots to add an accent to a certain beat. These two strokes are on opposite ends of the spectrum, and thus exaggerate the difference that dynamics can make.

Each voice of your drum kit (hi-hats, snare, kick drum, etc.) can all be played at various levels individually and in relation to each other to create a unique sound. How you play the various voices that make up a drum beat determines the dynamics of your playing. This is why no two drummers will ever sound exactly the same. Every player has their own "voice" or style of playing the entire kit to set them apart. You need to determine your own "voice" with which to shape your own unique drumming sound.

Dynamic Drumming Tips and Ideas

There are many different ways in which you can play with dynamics around your drum kit. Here are a few suggestions for you to try out the next time you practice:

Snare Drum

Rim Shots - Hitting the snare head and rim with the stick at the exact same time (in one motion with one stick) will create a louder accented note.
Normal Stroke - Playing a normal note on the snare with the stick hitting only the drum head. Typically the stroke starts somewhere between 4 and 6 inches from the drum-head.
Ghost Notes - Playing very light notes on the snare - typically between accents. The stick should not be lifted more than an inch from the snare before playing this quieter note.
Cross Stick (or rim click) - playing the stick against the rim of the snare while it lies reversed on the drum head. This is best demonstrated by an instructor, and works well in lighter playing situations.
One Handed Drum Roll - This technique is great because it allows you to do a drum roll while another hand can still build a song around the drum kit.
Moeller Method - This technique is great for not only being able to play more dynamic, but it will also allow you to hit the drum harder with less effort.
Kick Drum

Heels-down - Playing heels-down is the way many beginners are taught when they are first learning to playing the drums. With this technique, your heels rest on the base of the pedals as your feet make contact to play the hi-hat or bass-drum sounds. This is excellent for quieter playing, and can also work for louder situations.
Heels-up - For heavier strokes, the bass drum can be played with a heels-up approach. Instead of resting your heels on the pedals they are actually up in the air as your toes rest on the pedals between strokes. You use the full muscles of your legs to control each stroke. This gives you more power than just using your calf muscles, but ultimately takes more energy.
Feathering - This is a technique that heels-down players will use for lighter playing situations. It is typically played on double pedals for an even and continuous bass sound. You simply play light alternating strokes with both feet to provide a seemingly smooth sound. Felt or soft beaters with a fairly open-tuned bass should be used for the best results.
Heel-Toe Technique - This advanced method uses a motion that combines heels-down and heel-up play into a rocking movement that produces a double stroke on the kick drum. It's fairly difficult to explain, but more information can be found online at www.heeltoetechnique.com.
Hi-hats

Closed - Playing the hi-hats closed (foot down) is best for softer playing.
Sizzle - Playing the hi-hats just slightly open - creating a sizzle sound with each stroke.
Open - Playing the hats wide open, or as you open them, while releasing your hi-hat foot.
Alternating - Playing strokes on the edge and bow of the hi-hats. Typically the edge would be on the strong counts of the beat. For 4/4 time you would play edge, bow, edge, bow, etc. - while triplets could be played edge, bow, bow, edge, bow, bow... etc.
Ride Cymbal

Bow - Playing on the bow of the ride cymbal is most common, and works well for most styles.
Bell - Playing the bell is great for accenting notes or playing on the off-beat to create a unique feel.
Edge - Crashing, or playing on the edge of the ride, can be used to build into a heavy part of a track. However, a drummer will typically ride on a crash or possibly a china cymbal for this effect.
 

Drum Beats

Control - It is important you develop the ability to control each of your limbs when playing a beat. This may sound more difficult than it actually is. With practice you can easily develop this ability.
Practicing Combined Voices - Try playing a beat quietly with all of your limbs. Not only does this help with dynamics, but also gives you added control with each limb. When you return to playing louder everything is typically easier to play.
Practicing Individual Voices - Try playing a beat you would normally play fairly loud, and then adjust the volume of each limb individually. For example - continue to play the beat the way you normally would, and then lower the volume of your snare stroke to a ghost note. Bring the volume back up slowly and then do the same with the kick drum, the hi-hats, or the ride (one at a time) - all the while maintaining the original beat with the other limbs.
Drum Fills

Control - Typically you want fills to ascend or descend with the flow of the music. If you are building into a chorus with more energy, use the dynamics of the drum fill to build volume towards that chorus. Likewise, if you are coming out of a chorus, you want the dynamics to bring the volume and energy down slightly.
Practice - play a simple snare-roll fill that starts quiet and builds in volume (no change in speed). Start by playing a simple beat, then move into the ascending snare-roll for a full bar, and then to another beat. Then try a descending roll connecting two beats. Once you have mastered that, apply the dynamics using other voices of the drum kit.
Relating Dynamics to Genres

Every style of music has it's own basic dynamic guidelines. These aren't "rules" or "regulations" that you must stick with, but rather "tips" and "suggestions" for what typically sounds best. There is plenty of room for creativity when it comes to following these guidelines, so you shouldn't feel too limited or restricted with what you can play.

Rock Drumming

Play rim shots to accent the 2 and 4 counts, and lighter ghost notes on most every other beat.
The kick drum should be the next prominent voice, and should be played heel-up for the most part.
The hi-hats or ride cymbal should be the weakest of the three voices during normal play, but can still be fairly loud. I prefer to play the hi-hats fairly heavy, but the ride cymbal a little lighter as it is generally louder anyway.
Jazz Drumming

The snare should be played lightly. Some notes will be accented (but rarely by a full rim shot)
The kick drum should be slightly quieter than the snare, and is best played heels-down.
The ride should be clear on the bow with accents on the bell. It should be about as loud as the snare.
The hi-hats are typically being closed with the left foot on the 2 and 4 counts. The sound should be crisp and slightly louder than the snare. This isn't always the case, but is something that works well for most playing situations. Many beginners struggle to get the volume up on their hi-hats, but it is definitely worth learning.
The tips I have provided above are rules that I generally follow. Again, they are merely guidelines for you to base your playing around. The goal here is to assist you in finding your own unique voice, and enabling you to play with more control and dynamics.
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