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Author Topic: ShiMming Procedure  (Read 1645 times)

Offline tonwins11

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ShiMming Procedure
« on: October 11, 2012, 08:27:50 AM »
Guys, I badly need your help. We don't have a guitar tech in our locality. The nearest I would go is going to Cebu. But maybe you have idea that I can do it here myself until maybe give up on the guitar.

I have a guitar that has some fret buzz on the 3 high strings. Fretbuzz usually on the lower fret.

The saddles were on standard height. Neck was dead straight.

First was, I've tried to raise the nut by shimming it, gave me quite a solution but the buzz is still there. Quite stiff when doing chords on the lower fret.

Second, I tried shimming the neck pocket at the heel, neck angle changed, but my worry was that the saddles should be raised that really high and I simply lessen the thickness of the shim, but to no luck, still the buzzes are still there.

Third, after removing the shim at the heel, I placed it at farther from the bridge (quite the made the best solution for now). Lessen the fretbuzz but the action on the 12 fret onward was high.

What do you think should I do. Anyway, the fretlife of the neck is at 85-90%. Would refretting be a solution to it?  :eek:

Your ideas a very much of a help.
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Offline r_chino18

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 08:51:37 AM »
Guys, I badly need your help. We don't have a guitar tech in our locality. The nearest I would go is going to Cebu. But maybe you have idea that I can do it here myself until maybe give up on the guitar.
I have a guitar that has some fret buzz on the 3 high strings. Fretbuzz usually on the lower fret.
The saddles were on standard height. Neck was dead straight.

Let's note that first. Dead straight neck + good saddle height.

Quote
First was, I've tried to raise the nut by shimming it, gave me quite a solution but the buzz is still there. Quite stiff when doing chords on the lower fret.

Would be good only if the nut slots were already low. So how's the assessment of the nut slots?

Quote
Second, I tried shimming the neck pocket at the heel, neck angle changed, but my worry was that the saddles should be raised that really high and I simply lessen the thickness of the shim, but to no luck, still the buzzes are still there.

Not such a good choice unless the neck angle is slightly leaning forward. You did say that the neck was dead straight to begin with, so shimming the neck pocket won't do so much rather than to create an angle at the neck and raise your saddles to compensate.

Quote
Third, after removing the shim at the heel, I placed it at farther from the bridge (quite the made the best solution for now). Lessen the fretbuzz but the action on the 12 fret onward was high.

Now you just made your neck lean forward...stuff that should be avoided, imo.. I think it's better that the neck is either parallel to the body or angled towards the back.

With that kind of shim, you did make the middle frets go 'lower'.. Pero dirediretso na yun hanggang dulo ng neck kaya pataas na ng pataas ang action mo.

Quote
What do you think should I do. Anyway, the fretlife of the neck is at 85-90%. Would refretting be a solution to it?  :eek:
Your ideas a very much of a help.

Two things I can think of at the moment.

Case 1
a. Fretwires on the lower frets may be too worn (85%?) and the strings tend to catch up on the succeeding frets while vibrating. Thus, your fretbuzz.
b. With that said, you may try fret leveling (if applicable). Hahabulin mo yung height nung pinakaworn na part ng frets. However, case to case basis siya. Depende sa condition ng fretwire na iyon at kung ano yung magiging height ng fretwires after leveling. Baka naman sobrang baba na tapos pangit na icrown. Kung hindi na kaya ilevel, refret na maayos ang pagkakagawa ang solution.

Case 2
a. Temporary fix, try to adjust your truss rod for a little neck relief. Lagyan mo ng konting underbow yung dead straight neck. Para yung mga frets sa bandang middle area ay "bumaba" ang pwesto, thus, pwedeng hindi sumabit yung string pag nagvvibrate pag nagffret ka sa first few frets. But do consider you nut as well. This would be effective kung maayos ang depth ng nut slots mo, kung masyado nang mababa, baka sumabit pa rin even after the process..
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 08:54:46 AM by r_chino18 »

Offline tonwins11

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 09:02:22 AM »
Chino,

I was thinking of actually pagawa sayo ng new graphtech blank nut. Seems like the next thing before engaging to the drastic solution (refretting). As far as refretting is concerned, with my research, buying or pagawa ng bagong neck mismo is more practical daw kesa magpa refret kasi parehas lang daw din ang aabutin sa gastos.

Anyway, about the neck leaning forward by inserting the shim (2 plies of movie ticket yung nilagay ko sa neck), would you recommend taking it off?

I don't have the right tools for fret leveling. Any improvisation for this to be done?

Anyway, i forgot to mention, when the guitar is plugged, the buzz seems like to lessen a bit. Not that obvious kesa naka unplug. Medyo may "whap" sound when plucked or picked especially on the G string.

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Offline r_chino18

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 11:07:52 AM »
Chino,

I was thinking of actually pagawa sayo ng new graphtech blank nut. Seems like the next thing before engaging to the drastic solution (refretting). As far as refretting is concerned, with my research, buying or pagawa ng bagong neck mismo is more practical daw kesa magpa refret kasi parehas lang daw din ang aabutin sa gastos.

This would be advisable kung ang root cause ng buzz ay worn nut slots. Assuming pantay ang level ng frets.

Quote
Anyway, about the neck leaning forward by inserting the shim (2 plies of movie ticket yung nilagay ko sa neck), would you recommend taking it off?

Yep. If not, tataas talaga action mo as you go across the neck, hindi mo maiiwasan yun.

Quote
I don't have the right tools for fret leveling. Any improvisation for this to be done?

Anyway, i forgot to mention, when the guitar is plugged, the buzz seems like to lessen a bit. Not that obvious kesa naka unplug. Medyo may "whap" sound when plucked or picked especially on the G string.

Refer to case 2. Yun nalang gawin mo para ma-aleviate yung buzz. Add some relief to the dead straight neck.

Offline tonwins11

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 12:04:56 PM »
I'd probably do the saddle option first. Then resetup ng guitar. Will text you.
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Offline r_chino18

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 12:10:15 PM »
I'd probably do the saddle option first. Then resetup ng guitar. Will text you.

What saddle option?

Tanggalin mo muna yung mga shim bro tapos lagyan mo ng konting relief yung neck. Yun nalang muna.

Btw.... A new neck would cost nowhere near a refret job alone.

Isipin mo, pag nagpagawa ka ng bagong neck, irerefret din yun. So basically, you'l;l end up paying for a refret job+new neck pag ganun..
Ang refret nasa 2k-ish lang, ang bagong neck with frets, pwede ka abutin ng 7k..
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 12:11:36 PM by r_chino18 »

Offline tonwins11

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2012, 07:24:19 AM »
I ended up doing fret levelling and crowning and underbowing the neck. Quite solved the problem. Still a little buzz, but not audible na pag naka plug sa amp. Our local luthier here only offers 500 pesos for a refret job. Kanya na din ang fretwires. Sabi nya, if ihahatid ko ng umaga, makukuha agad at noon time.

What can you say about the price. Saw one of this custom guitars, some frets don't sit well. Maybe because the owner was quite in a hurry for him to finish the custom guitar. But some of his custom guitars are quite well. Maganda ang feel.

About the time he makes the refret job. Isn't that fast? Umaga, tapos noon time, makukuha agad? Di ba it would take enough time to refret?
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Offline r_chino18

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 07:33:58 AM »
I ended up doing fret levelling and crowning and underbowing the neck. Quite solved the problem. Still a little buzz, but not audible na pag naka plug sa amp. Our local luthier here only offers 500 pesos for a refret job. Kanya na din ang fretwires. Sabi nya, if ihahatid ko ng umaga, makukuha agad at noon time.

What tools did you use for leveling? Congrats anyway.

500php for a refret job? Wow. That's really cheap. What fretwires do he use?

Quote
What can you say about the price. Saw one of this custom guitars, some frets don't sit well. Maybe because the owner was quite in a hurry for him to finish the custom guitar. But some of his custom guitars are quite well. Maganda ang feel.

About the time he makes the refret job. Isn't that fast? Umaga, tapos noon time, makukuha agad? Di ba it would take enough time to refret?

Mabilis din yung umaga tapos makukuha na ng tanghali. But I don't know kung gano kaganda yung fret work until I see it. Para sakin dapat hindi minamadali ang ganyang bagay eh. OC ako sa frets. Don't care much bout the time.

Offline tonwins11

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Re: ShiMming Procedure
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2012, 08:09:45 AM »
I saw this video in youtube about fret levelling. Ginaya ko lang yung procedure nya doon. I use 220 (mukhang coarse siya for fret sanding, yan lang kasi available sa bahay at that time eh) grit sandpaper and wrapped it with a block of wood, sanded the fretwires along the neck. I taped the sides of the fret wire. Used some needle files to crown it. Minarkahan ko muna ng permanent marker. Crowned it until the marker gets narrower.

I don't know what fretwires he use. Siguro not the silver nickel. The price is quite tempting to go for the fret job.

I was quite surprised when I texted our local luthier of how fast he does with his fretjob.
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