Cheating in recording: When does it 'enhance', 'mask', or 'manufacture'?

[skunkyfunk]

My personal definition of cheating in a recording: The use of software to artificially perfect a flawed performance, and/or a less than ideal source of recording (inclusive of the room).   It also extends to overuse of software to simulate a performance that is never representative of the artist should he perform it live and uncured.

So how can you tell if the intervention of software 'enhances', 'masks' or 'manufactures' a performance?

[erniebong]

cheating for me is not from the tools.... from the intent of those involved ... kung gustong mandaya maraming paraan

dama naman yung materyales kung fake eh (software enhancement notwithstanding)

people can still record a perfect performance, on a real set of equipment in a real room, use or not use software pero pwede pa din siyang fake na na-manufacture.

yung metaphysical content at energy ang nag sasabi sa akin kung enhanced, masked, o manufactured.

[skunkyfunk]

cheating for me is not from the tools.... from the intent of those involved ... kung gustong mandaya maraming paraan

dama naman yung materyales kung fake eh (software enhancement notwithstanding)

people can still record a perfect performance, on a real set of equipment in a real room, use or not use software pero pwede pa din siyang fake na na-manufacture.

yung metaphysical content at energy ang nag sasabi sa akin kung enhanced, masked, o manufactured.

Boom.

And yes, the metaphysical part is the hardest to capture.

[Xelly]

cheating for me is not from the tools.... from the intent of those involved ... kung gustong mandaya maraming paraan

dama naman yung materyales kung fake eh (software enhancement notwithstanding)

people can still record a perfect performance, on a real set of equipment in a real room, use or not use software pero pwede pa din siyang fake na na-manufacture.

yung metaphysical content at energy ang nag sasabi sa akin kung enhanced, masked, o manufactured.

Request lang. Pakidagdagan pa ng explanation yung metaphysical. Interesting!

[skunkyfunk]

Request lang. Pakidagdagan pa ng explanation yung metaphysical. Interesting!

Yun yung sinasabi nilang 'kaluluwa' sa recording.  I don't know how I can verbalize.  All I can say is that, if it does not move you, then there is not life to the recording.

[AnalogKiD]

yung metaphysical content at energy ang nag sasabi sa akin kung enhanced, masked, o manufactured.

Arraaay!!! Utakkk koooo!!!

[jamming_papu]

Yun yung sinasabi nilang 'kaluluwa' sa recording.  I don't know how I can verbalize.  All I can say is that, if it does not move you, then there is not life to the recording.

medyo nagegets ko na. can anyone give an example, probably a popular track or a link, na nag-aapply yung so called cheating technique? aside from using auto-tune of course.

[IncX]

i guess cheating is when you make something possible, when the musician involved cannot do it. i.e.

-using auto tune on a singer who can get the part right but is pressed for time = not cheating

-turning a 100 bpm guitar solo into a 220 bpm cause the guitar player cannot play that fast = cheating

there are also cases where you make things obviously impossible, which is not cheating. i.e.

-trigerring 2 kinds of snare sound on a drum beat, or impossible ostinatos that can only be done if you had 4 arms.

i guess thats my point of view. sometimes you just dont have the time to get something right, so you do some shortcuts. as long as you can do it live, it is all fair

[Xelly]

i guess cheating is when you make something possible, when the musician involved cannot do it. i.e.

-using auto tune on a singer who can get the part right but is pressed for time = not cheating

-turning a 100 bpm guitar solo into a 220 bpm cause the guitar player cannot play that fast = cheating

there are also cases where you make things obviously impossible, which is not cheating. i.e.

-trigerring 2 kinds of snare sound on a drum beat, or impossible ostinatos that can only be done if you had 4 arms.

i guess thats my point of view. sometimes you just dont have the time to get something right, so you do some shortcuts. as long as you can do it live, it is all fair

+1
Siguro merong fine line between "cheating" & "shortcut".

[erniebong]

again it goes back to the "intent" of the people involved.

isang example na sinasabi ni Dodge na siyang pinaka mahirap i capture... Metaphysical energy = soul, conviction, feel ...mga ganun.

halimbawa may na record na vocal track medyo sintunado at walang convincing na feel para pumuwede na kailngan i auto tune. software daya

meron naman medyo sintunado pero sagana sa conviction at nadala ka nung take...  tatagos yun at may mismo factor kahit sintunado kasi tama yung metaphysical energy.

[jamming_papu]

does this covers electronica-based music? maybe not. 

[dariusbabylon]

-turning a 100 bpm guitar solo into a 220 bpm cause the guitar player cannot play that fast = cheating

George Martin's harpsichord solo on "In My Life" is cheating, then.

[IncX]

George Martin's harpsichord solo on "In My Life" is cheating, then.

dont know anything about that. how does he do it live?

[erniebong]

does this covers electronica-based music? maybe not. 

Im sure Dodgie meant it to be within the organic type of music since Electronica for the most part is synthesized... the word synthetic actually means fake, in one sense it is cheating to begin with (please dont get me wrong i don't mean that in a way with prejudice) 

[skunkyfunk]

George Martin's harpsichord solo on "In My Life" is cheating, then.

Using a Piano and varispeed to make it sound like a harpsichord? That's art.

[MYN11]

Then it is also safe to say that for some people, they consider auto-tune as art. Same with synth arpegiattors, trigger pads and sequencing.

[jamming_papu]

Connecting various takes via signal-line-levelling technique to make it look like single straight performance doesn't count right? I do that a lot. 

[skunkyfunk]

Connecting various takes via signal-line-levelling technique to make it look like single straight performance doesn't count right? I do that a lot. 

The difference is you can also make a live performance REPRESENTATIVE of that recording.  That's enhancement in my book, not manufacturing.

[erniebong]

vocal comping is not cheating it still requires singing in time and in tune with feel... auto tune as a deliberate effect on an otherwise good track is art... using it to tune a hopelessly out of tune track from someone that can't sing or who has no business singing just because he or she is pretty (or a kamaganak of someone who knew someone) is where you crossed the line. There is a genuine way of using auto tune and synthetic elements in an artistic way where one crosses bounderies for universal beauty. But this can only be done by a genuine artist with a genuine artistic vision.

Artistic enhancement has no bounds while the absence of an artistic discipline definitely leads a production to cheating, or more accurately manufacturing a soulless empty image void of any substance.  I't not about the tool or how it's used..... It's the "WHY" we should be brutally honest  about.

The difference is not a fine line it's actually huge... as in extremes, where on the one end (defined the WHY's) is  Enhancement for "Pure" artistic reasons while the other end (also defined by the why's) is Manufacturing Purely for commercial reasons. Of course there are heaps of others  somewhere in the middle cruising and tip toeing sides trying to make the compromise between art and commerce.       

[el.sol]

nice!
sample of cheating...IMHO

 

[Xelly]

nice!
sample of cheating...IMHO