Inverting the phase of a track...

[geetar_geek79]

Paano ba mag-invert ng phase ng isang track sa software?  Usually kasi sa mga mixer meron button to shift the phase pero wala sa interface ko.  Tinignan ko din sa software (Tracktion 2) wala rin akong mahanap.  Di kaya separate ne plug-in yun?  Gusto ko kasi mag double track, pero shifted yung phase nung isang track...  panned left and right, it's supposed to "leave a hole in the middle of the field, perfect for lead guitars or vocals" according to something I've researched on the net.  Thanks.


Here's what I'm trying to improve.  This is also posted sa Guitar Central:
http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4837750&q=hi

p.s. don't mind the lame drum programming

[KitC]

You can't flip the phase of an identical track, that would only lead to phase cancellation. The phase button on mixers was meant to check exactly for that especially when you have a group of mics going into the mixer. What you need is a phaser where you can dial in the amount of phase in degrees as well as width. Try the mgPhaseShifter from here.

[geetar_geek79]

^^Thanks.  Try ko nga yung plug-in.  Nabasa ko lang kasi dito (9th paragraph from the last) pero di niya in-explain kung papaano gawin.  Sabi niya, mag-double track, play it twice exactly the same way - which is what I always do, then pan sila left and right.  Tapos yung isang track, either left or right, i-flip daw yung phase.   Pero papaano

[Phil]

when it comes to being a gitarista....CHEATING yang paphase phase na  yan....

[geetar_geek79]

Well, kung isang track lang tapos gagawing psuedo stereo, medyo cheating nga siya.  Ang napapansin ko kase kung dalawang track na magkahiwalay ang take, tapos left and right yung pan nila, parang may "image" parin nung mga tracks sa "gitna" ng stereo field.  Unlike this guys recording:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=569677&songID=4828409

Sa isang forum na binibisita ko nakuha ito.  Di ba parang may mga space in between instruments and stereo field?

[KitC]

^^Thanks.  Try ko nga yung plug-in.  Nabasa ko lang kasi dito (9th paragraph from the last) pero di niya in-explain kung papaano gawin.  Sabi niya, mag-double track, play it twice exactly the same way - which is what I always do, then pan sila left and right.  Tapos yung isang track, either left or right, i-flip daw yung phase.   Pero papaano

Wala bang phase switch ang tracktion? Both Sonar and Cubase have a phase button. Kung may offline audio processing ang tracktion, you can try inverting the phase on the 2nd double track. Inverting the phase on a copy of the first track will only result in complete signal cancellation whereas with doubletracking, there will always be slight tuning differences between the 2 tracks often resulting in the hole-in-the-middle effect. You can try detuning the copy by a few cents then reversing the phase on that but it usually sounds artificial.

Go here if you want some vst phase inverters,  specifically, this one.

[geetar_geek79]

Thanks KitC.  Hehe.  Medyo nagpahinga lang ako ng konti, ngayon tingin ko ok naman yung mix ko.  I just A/B'd some music and my own mix and I think it sounds just fine, except for the lame drum programming of course.  Hehe   I think I just needed to rest my ears a little.  Medyo nakaka-adik kasi mag-record eh.

Nahanap ko na yung phase invert.  Feature siya nung EQ sa Tracktion.  I tried it and it didn't really make a difference, or I just didn't know how to use it, lol!  Either way, I think I'll keep the mix like that for now.  Pero siguro babawasan ko yung low frequency energy nung guitars kapag naayos ko yung drums saka kapag nalagyan ko ng bass para di sila siksikan sa isang section ng audio spectrum.  Salamat lagi!

[geetar_geek79]

Ureka!  I finally know how this phase inverting works!  I figured out how this "hole in the middle" idea goes!

Lets say you're using two mics to record one source.  If they're panned to the same side, Phasing may occur.  If it does and you hit the "phase invert" switch, it goes away.  If they're panned separately, there is no phasing produced but it sounds like it's in mono eventhough they're panned to the opposite sides.  Hit the "phase invert" and there's that damn hole this guy is talking about!    

I think that technique really helps if one doesn't want to crowd the mix with overdubs but want a stereo image without using effects.

Salamat sa tulong ng lahat!!!

P.s.  kaka adik talaga mag-record.