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Author Topic: plugins and mixing for house music  (Read 2798 times)

Offline nichteque

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plugins and mixing for house music
« on: January 18, 2007, 03:16:35 PM »
hey guys, ano ang marerecommend niyo na setup sa pagproduce ng chill/house/trance music? i've actually made some tracks pero i'm not so sure about the sonic quality, medyo baguhan lang talaga ako sa mga ganito pero nagkaroon narin ako ng hilig and i really wanna dive deeper into this. problem is, medyo limited ang gamit ko kasi bandista lang din ako na nagbenta ng gamit para makabili nga toys. hehe. but i'm gonna try to make the most out of my stuff, so i need your help, guys. :)

i use fl studio 6 with a few downloaded vst plugins, a umx25 controller, a behri xenyx802 mixer connected to the cheap usb interface included with the behringer package, and ms40 monitors. i know this is a very basic setup pero this is all i have for now. i've only recorded guitar riffs to incorporate with my tracks. yun pa lang, kasi kakakuha ko lang din ng mga gamit. napansin ko kasi karamihan ng mga threads is all about live sound recording and mixing...okay din sana kung merong about electronic music and all the how-to-do's of electronic mixing para sa mga kagaya ko.

i have uploaded a few songs athttp://topas.multiply.com/music/item/50 you can check it out if you want. if ever you do, please comment on it especially regarding the quality. i am a newbie and my ears are still in the "private" rank, yung sa inyo eh mga "afp chief of staff" na mga tenga niyo. hehe. tsaka kung may marerekomenda kayo na plugins (yung mga free muna sana, wala akong budget). thanks a lot guys, i've learned a lot from this forum and i wanna learn more. daghang salamat kaninyung tanan! :)

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2007, 03:36:54 PM »
try getting older issues of Music Tech, Future Music and Computer Music because these mags have a lot of good free stuff that can help you add ambient effects, analog style beats, and compression of you want it. the variety you can get with the free plugs is wonderful and they release samples too.

as far as mixing, i would just recommend listening to a lot of your favorite artists. I DJ as well and I play a lot of house in different forms. Get some CDs and listen to them then ask other people to critique your work. Music production is a learning process and there is always something new to learn from someone out there. If you are on myspace, look up the people from Uneaq, the live house band. Andrew produces most of their music and is a good friend out of Cali. The guys from Naked Music are great as well and I have DJed with them a few times. Miguel Migs, Marques Wyatt and the guys from Soulstice are very, very nice people that will share a lot of knowledge. Mei Lwun Yee from Soulstice always loves to talk gear and DJing so look him up on myspace and ask away. It never hurst to try and ask.
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Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2007, 04:11:43 PM »
sa cali din ako derecho after i graduate from college. i'll be working at my aunt's company for a while then move out after awhile to pursue this passion. a lot of my friends in the west coast say na uso daw talaga ang house diyan, even kaskade is from SF, diba? i don't have myspace sir so i guess sa iyo ko muna irerekta ang mga tanong ko. kayo sir, ano ang marerecommend niyong free compression plug-in para sa drums? the kicks and the snares and pretty much everything else on my drum tracks sounds so "patay". any techniques na you could share sa pag-EQ at comp, lalo na pag sa deep house music?

i agree, it never hurts to try and ask. that's what i'm doing right now. gusto ko lang matuto ng matuto, minsan nga hindi ako makatulog because when i listen to my tracks, no matter what i do, parang laging may mali. and that's why i can't go to sleep sometimes...tweak ng tweak at ayos ng ayos..hanggang makuha ko yung gusto ko..then the next day it will sound so different, parang may kailangan nanaman akong ayusin...it never ends. if sound is a drug then i'm probably addicted to it :)

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 04:52:19 PM »
try out the freebie compressors (and other plugs) posted by our very own KitC in this forum. the link is stickied and updated regularly so there should be enough there to keep you busy.

the cure for "patay" drums is hard because you really do have to experiment and see how things work for YOUR tracks. kaskade and other house people often try layering different drum samples to give the kick, snare or tom passage on a song a bit more dimension. you could also lift samples off records and sample those kicks if you don't want to use sample CDs. people using MPCs these days still do that. but here is a caveat: the problem with using single kicks (i think) is that you can only EQ so much of it and most samples either have a particular accent or frequency emphasized on it that may not exactly fit in with the rest of your song. there are a lot of "layering" tutorials for drums online so I suggest you go look those up. also, read up on frequency edits in music. every instrument has a niche that sound engineers use (exploit) to arrange the different elements of a song so the resulting mix sounds cohesive and well laid out. drums kicks for example are low freq by nature so edits for EQing them properly focus anywhere between 28Hz to 35hz or so. other instruments occupy a similar niche along the frequency band at different points so it would be best if you you read up on that so you have a better idea of what you have to deal with when mixing your songs.

Kaskade is from Arizona, i think, but like the other OM and Naked Music people, he frequents SF and SD. Deep house music is everywhere these days - the bay area, chicago, the east coast. the nice thing about the variety in house, and for other dance music actually, is that each region has its own take on it. West coast dance is much laid back, midwest house is much more traditionally disco oriented while east coast house is a bit more abrasive sounding and very much like techno. All in all, the variety is great and the people that make them are a great bunch of forward thinking people that release amazing records. My favorite labels are Naked Music, OM, Soulfuric, Subliminal, Buzzinfly, and Solu Music. I started spinning in the heyday of the Chicago house-rave scene so the offshoot of that movement brought a lot of excitement because more and more people were bringing things to the existing music scene. Moreover, most of the people who were originally from Chicago and helped launch house to the masses like Derek Carter, Mark Farina, Angel Alanis, Collette and, of course, Mr Fingers among others, are either moving back to Chicago or playing in the city through their club residences.

ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 08:19:38 PM »
i understand na hindi dapat naglalaban ang mga frequencies sa mix...halimbawa yung kick eh nasa region na 50hz to 80hz...tapos yung bass medyo higher ng onte, depende kung ano ang gusto ko palabasin, diba? pero i'm still having problems sa high freqs, minsan i like the sound of the lows pero sumasabog pagdating sa upper end. and when i raise a particular frequency sa isang track or instrument eh kelangan ba i-cut down ko yung frequency nung iba? sounds tedious, but hey, if it's gonna give me better sound, okay lang siguro.

i still don't have full understanding of how compression works...to tell you the truth, minsan nanghuhula lang ako by tweaking the comp and listening to the result. haha.

i am also pretty much a newcomer pagdating sa house music. it all started with a cd that wasn't even mine in the first place. i'm still exploring on the music dito kasi sa pilipinas ang hirap naman humanap ng mga cds. meron naman sa mga record bars pero medyo limited, at nakafocus sila sa pop...kung ano ang sikat, meron sila. eh pano yung hindi sikat? yung hindi sikat yung gusto ko marinig. minsan mp3 nalang talaga ang option ko para sa pag-explore ng music pero hindi naman full quality eh. 16-bit lang kasi. haha.


Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 11:19:13 PM »
kung hindi sikat, eh mahirap yan pero just look and see if they released anything commercial (or indie) that you might collect. DJ sets are a popular way of studying dance music as well so you could go that route too.

compression is a tough thing to apply because a track element might sound worse or better because of it. compression, unlike EQ, is a double edged sword because the presence of dynamics may often be the driving element behind a track sample. so, naturally, compressing its transients would be a detrimental application of compression in this case.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2007, 03:07:31 AM »
yeah, i'll do that. bihira din kasi ako makapunta sa mga clubs and parties...tsaka yung mga napupuntahan ko eh mga hip-hop and rnb yung tugtugan mostly. if ever magpatugtog sila ng dance, yung mga common din so i don't really get to hear anything new. not that i don't like it, it's just that i really need something fresh so my ideas don't sound the same. mas maganda diba kung marami ang influences ko. right now, chicane and kaskade are my influences, lalo na sa paglagay ng drums. pero i don't wanna sound too much like them, so i'm really looking for something new. i'll go check on the record bars for the labels you mentioned in your earlier post and see if they have them.

Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2007, 03:39:15 AM »
quick question: what goes first in the chain, eq or comp? thanks dude :)

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2007, 03:40:20 AM »
ideally, you want to EQ a drum track first and them compress whatever transients are in that sample to produce a more focused, even sound.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2007, 03:48:18 AM »
so parang, i'll carve out the wave using the eq, then polish it further with the comp by compressing? cool. thanks. btw do you use celemony melodyne? i checked out the website, and the thing is just the [gooey brown stuff]! pitch and time shifting sounds so natural. pero ang mahal. naglalaway ako. hehe. :) will it work on fruity loops?

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2007, 04:35:46 AM »
so parang, i'll carve out the wave using the eq, then polish it further with the comp by compressing? cool. thanks. btw do you use celemony melodyne? i checked out the website, and the thing is just the [gooey brown stuff]! pitch and time shifting sounds so natural. pero ang mahal. naglalaway ako. hehe. :) will it work on fruity loops?

by "carving out," i hope you mean to say that you will dial in a particular freq so it is emphasized more, right? When you do an edit to accentuate a particular freq, you don't carve or cut it out because this would be akin to scopping out the mids in a guitar signal and making your resulting tone more treble and bass. You want to boost a part of a frequency to get it to cut better and stand out more.

Celemony Melodyne is a pretty good program. The algorithms are nice and I use it on my laptop for basic sequencing and arranging. Normally, I rely on my Eventide harmonizers for pitch shifting by patching to them as outboard signals. If you are a student, try looking for a place that will offer academic discounts. Just make sure to provide your current proof of enrollment at a university or vocational program.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2007, 05:14:50 AM »
yeah, pretty much like that...yung gusto kong i-emphasize na frequency eh inaangat ko, tapos yung mga nakakasagabal sa ibang elements eh i cut them down a bit. kitc told me about cutting down frequencies a bit para hindi magtapakan, to "give each element its own sonic space, by panning or cutting down frequencies". dunno if i understood him right. haha. dati yun sa post ko when i asked you about the kaskade kicks. please correct me if what i'm doing is wrong. hehe. thanks bro, i really appreciate the help you're giving me right now. :)

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2007, 05:25:35 AM »
Kit is right. You basically accent a frequency notch and back off others to give your kick mix a solid and complementary role in the song.
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Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 05:30:59 AM »
so that also applies to most other elements of the track, right? i'm practicing on that right now.

see, i can't sleep because i can't get this stuff out of my head. it's already 5:30am here. haha.

Offline chuck sabbath

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 10:14:53 AM »
nichteque: you might want to sign up with the electronica manila yahoo group, lots of helpful people there

for house check out peace division, kik and hats lang busog na!
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Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2007, 11:09:47 AM »
so that also applies to most other elements of the track, right? i'm practicing on that right now.

see, i can't sleep because i can't get this stuff out of my head. it's already 5:30am here. haha.

yes. selective frq edits applies across the board for ALL instruments so study up on which freq bands instruments really shine.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2007, 02:52:19 PM »
@abyssinianson: great. i found a few pages on the internet that gave me an idea on which freqs to tweak on certain parts of the track. i tried the techniques and they gave the elements more clarity. that's one step, compression and other effects nalang siguro and then maybe my songs will sound so much better.

then after everything has been made okay with the eq and comps, do i still need to put anything on the master track (eqs, comps)?

@chuck sabbath: sure sige i'll do that. anong id ng electronica manila sa ygroups? peace division, i've heard about the name pero i haven't heard anything from them. meron kaya silang releases sa mga record bars dito? thanks pare.

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2007, 03:40:34 PM »
putting an effect on your master bus depends on what else your track might need to sound better. some people put a limiter or compressor on a bus and others don't so you could try this. Ideally, you would want to apply effects and everything on an individual basis because this will take care of the tracks and get them sounding as good as they can BEFORE you even mix the whole thing together, and this includes getting the best sound out of your source as best as you can because "fixing it at the board" is a practice people should not be adopting at all. A bad recording is a bad recording and no amount of EQing, compression or black magic will save a bad take. Spend as much time setting up to record a sample or preparing it as you would mixing a set of tracks.

Speaking of bus inserts, if you want to save DSP (processing) power you might want to set up group "send" set of effects that have a common compression ratio, reverb effect or delay setting that may apply to one or more elements of your track. Be warned, do this only if they serve similar roles in a mix. You can't EQ a kick the same way you would a floor tom or a rack tom or a snare. For cymbal samples or hats, treat them diferently and see what you might be able to group together. All of these elements in a song - drums, guitars, keys and synths - are different so you EQ them differently as well.
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Offline nichteque

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2007, 02:03:00 PM »
i did that on the two crash samples i used and they sound good. i used different eqs on the other stuff. i'm not really sure which plugs consume a lot of cpu...is there a way to find out how much dsp a plugin uses? medyo hindi parin high-end ang computer ko, it's only a p4 2.4ghz with 768mb...and i'm seriously in need of a new hard drive. god, this passion is soooo expensive!!  :x

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: plugins and mixing for house music
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2007, 02:32:56 PM »
depende sa sequencer mo, usually it will indicate the CPU load of the active plugin. Cubase, Nuendo and PT which are the sequencers I use for different work, all show CPU load in one form or another.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!