To "One" or not to "One" ?!?....

[Bammbamm]

Why do most (if not all) Jazz musicians shy away from playing on one or emphasizing that first beat?
How do you- as a Jazz player-  keep the song grooving without emphasis on that down beat?

This may be a technical question, pero curious din ako;..... Di ba kayo naiirita pag ang ka jam nyo e mahilig pumasok sa uno? 

[frogfunk]

According to my teacher, ang swing kasi ang strong beats nasa 2 and 4 kaya di gaanong emphasized ang 1. Pero siyempre importante pa rin ang 1. 

[deltaslim]

According to my teacher, ang swing kasi ang strong beats nasa 2 and 4 kaya di gaanong emphasized ang 1. Pero siyempre importante pa rin ang 1. 

Importante nga... walang 2, kung walang 1. 

I agree about the swing feel, plus I am also a big fan of syncopation.  I also feel it's so predictable if you start and end on 1 palagi.  In my mind and soul, guitar playing is like talking:  For e.g., the most dramatic actors on film seem to deliver their lines with a unique cadence.  Whereas if you watch local B-movies or even sitcoms by the latest teen stars (but amateur actors), they deliver their lines as if they were reading the phonebook.

Harmonically, I don't like getting busy on the "home" I chord either.  Mas interesting and excited ako sa IV, II, V, VI...  I is just the intro or pasakalye.  I like to build tension and conflict elsewhere.

[frogfunk]

Siguro hindi naman dahil sa itinitago nila yung 1 sa bilangan kasi hahanapin mo yun e. Hindi lang siya stressed or strong or litaw.

Yung So What ni Miles Davis binibilangan ko kagabi habang nakasakay ako sa bus nahirapan din akong maghanap ng 1 pero nandun din pala siya. Hindi nga lang sing lakas or buo or litaw. Kung lalagyan mo kasi ng stress ang 1 pakiramdam ko mao-obliga ka namang lagyan ng stress ang 3, which is common sa pop songs. Siguro ito nga ang pundasyon para mag-"swing" ang tinutugtog mo, tandaan lang na strong ang beats 2 and 4. Pero kung 5/4 halimbawa na ang bilang katulad ng Take 5 gagawin mong strong ang beats sa pagitan ng 2 and 3 saka 4 and 5 para mag-swing.

Sa chords naman medyo pinag-aaralan ko pa. @delta: Ibig mo bang sabihin may I-IV-V ka na progression nagsa-substitute or add ka halimbawa na ng II, ii, VI, vi or VII? Curious lang po. 

[Bammbamm]

Thanks for the replies...one more, May particular style ba ng Jazz ang hindi binibigyan ng emphasis ang one or it applies to all, i.e. modal, bebop, cool, swing, etc.?

[psychic_sushi]

two words:

forward motion

notice that most of the fantastic classic solos have a "forward motion" feel, like the lines are skimming over the changes effortlessly. starting on the "and" noe, before or after the "one" helps the take off. like the leap at the trampoline. you'll find that i alot of bebop, even fusion guitarists employ this (yummy feeling!)

hence, the syncopation's goal is to promote forward motion. starting on the one doesn't promote the "swing" factor, but that doesn't stop you from hitting it if your mind-heart-ears tell you so.

but as a general rule for propulsion, the "and" is where its at. It's like a transition phrase that links ideas. And to feel the "and" is the goal, to make it second nature to help your improvizations. 

[Deacon Blues]

Very well said, psychic sushi .. 

[Bammbamm]

Salamat uli sa mga replies.

[palolo_worm]

sa akin naman, in regards to drums, importante rin ung one, pero ung tend to move forward sobrang importante kaya malakas ung emphasis niya. like ung hi-hat chick sound sa two at four, at ung triplet feel with a skip note sa ride that sounds like "dog---walk-a-dog---walk-a-dog"

in playing time naman, hindi naman sa pagiwas sa one of a bar, pero mas maganda kung hindi naeemphasize yung bar or measure. unlike rock and pop music that accents every measure or every 4 bars etc..

[progressive_pilipinas]

may question ako.. sorry kung OT.



bakit ako hirap mag solo kapag walking ang bass line? i suck at comping din..


basta hirap ako, pag hirit ko ,isa isang nota lang ang dale ko. tapos wala nang patutunguhan. 

[psychic_sushi]

may question ako.. sorry kung OT.



bakit ako hirap mag solo kapag walking ang bass line? i suck at comping din..


basta hirap ako, pag hirit ko ,isa isang nota lang ang dale ko. tapos wala nang patutunguhan. 

you mean while you are executing the walking bassline? Or trying to solo over one played behind you by another musician?

It's a matter of finding your space.

rhythmic, harmonic, dynamic and melodic space.

parang break up, right? (we're done... i need space  )

honestly, playing minutely over a walking bassline works if you know the right notes to hit. Truly, space may be the final frontier for the human race, but it should be the first for musicians.

Out of creativity, lets touch this approach-

rhythmic- the walking bassline is in 8ths. Solo in 4ths. Solo in 16ths. Solo in triplets.

Harmonic- hit the key notes of the chord tone that the walking bassline encircles. play substitutions. play whatever.

Dynamic- If he's loud, soften up. and vice versa. Same with the texture of the notes. if its a staccato pattern thumping behind you, try legato to smoothen up.

Melodic- think about direction. if the bassline is ascending, you descent, and vice versa. It'll almost be like counterpoint if you're both in sync rhythmicly.

Contrasts are a simple way of approaching space. just doing the opposite of what is done. And being aware of it.

[progressive_pilipinas]

may question ako.. sorry kung OT.



bakit ako hirap mag solo kapag walking ang bass line? i suck at comping din..


basta hirap ako, pag hirit ko ,isa isang nota lang ang dale ko. tapos wala nang patutunguhan. 

you mean while you are executing the walking bassline? Or trying to solo over one played behind you by another musician?

It's a matter of finding your space.

rhythmic, harmonic, dynamic and melodic space.

parang break up, right? (we're done... i need space  )

honestly, playing minutely over a walking bassline works if you know the right notes to hit. Truly, space may be the final frontier for the human race, but it should be the first for musicians.

Out of creativity, lets touch this approach-

rhythmic- the walking bassline is in 8ths. Solo in 4ths. Solo in 16ths. Solo in triplets.

Harmonic- hit the key notes of the chord tone that the walking bassline encircles. play substitutions. play whatever.

Dynamic- If he's loud, soften up. and vice versa. Same with the texture of the notes. if its a staccato pattern thumping behind you, try legato to smoothen up.

Melodic- think about direction. if the bassline is ascending, you descent, and vice versa. It'll almost be like counterpoint if you're both in sync rhythmicly.

Contrasts are a simple way of approaching space. just doing the opposite of what is done. And being aware of it.

i meant soloing over someone whos playing the bass line.

space i have lots of it! haha! about two notes through, say, a 36 bar bass line. haha!


ill take note of that psychic_sushi, btw, the descend and ascend thing was new to me. thanks!

[progressive_pilipinas]

i meant soloing over someone whos playing the bass line.

space i have lots of it! haha! about two notes through, say, a 36 bar bass line. haha!


ill take note of that psychic_sushi, btw, the descend and ascend thing was new to me. thanks!

practicing a few licks can help. here's a good source: www.saxlessons.com.

 

sabi nga daw mas maganda mag practice ng licks ng mga saxophonists dahil ang medium player nila ay advanced na sa ating mga gitarista.

[deltaslim]

Why do most (if not all) Jazz musicians shy away from playing on one or emphasizing that first beat?
How do you- as a Jazz player-  keep the song grooving without emphasis on that down beat?

This may be a technical question, pero curious din ako;..... Di ba kayo naiirita pag ang ka jam nyo e mahilig pumasok sa uno? 

Read something that's related to this question...

Jazz, blues, and most world music are polyrhythmic and syncopated because they were mostly the music of the colonized and are thus responding to THE BEAT.  THE BEAT is usually the marching music of colonizers: One-two-one-two-left-right-left-right...

So, when you're playing off beat, you're sticking it to the man!