Can everyone attain a certain level of virtuosity if we all practice seriously?

[erniebong]

Mismo! Very well said

[PRSMan]

Don't confuse musicality (the individual's creative tendencies) with virtuosity (an individual's technical potential). THose two don't necessarily come hand in hand but each would significantly benefit from each other's presence.

Perf -- Thanks for the clarification. All the while, I thought that a virtuoso is someone who's just uber-galing on all fronts.  I didn't realize that virtuosity only focused on the technical aspect of playing.  What are the other dimensions of being a good musician?

[christer]

I had a long talk with my mentor today about this topic. By the way, this teacher of mine is a virtuoso in my book because of his technicality and speed. He's quite well known here in Bacolod. Anyway, I asked him how to gain speed. His answer was very very long, and it also involved philosophy. To summarize his answer, he said speed is just a bi-product of form and endurance. He emphasized form first and proper picking technique. Learn your scales and appregios by heart. Make sure your fingers land exactly at the middle of the frets. Be aware of the proper fingering. Next is endurance. Practicing constantly for long periods of time will develop endurance. He also gave me an analogy that guitar playing is similar to sports, lets say basketball. Your body develops certain specialized muscles for specialized movement. Again, this is due to long hours of playing.

Lastly, he said that there are guitar players who are really gifted to be super fast. He compared Clapton to Malmsteen, but he had a different point. He said that hitting a single note, while expressing all your feelings, is just equal to hitting a long scale run, with extreme speed. Darn i could not drive exactly to his point, but its more philosophical than technical.

[danj0]

eto rin turo sa akin nung kaibigan kong magaling mag drums mag bass at mag guitar..

sabi niya.. wag mo isipin theories as much as you think you have to... just feel the song..

tapos let go lang daw nang emotions

[IncX]

I had a long talk with my mentor today about this topic. By the way, this teacher of mine is a virtuoso in my book because of his technicality and speed. He's quite well known here in Bacolod. Anyway, I asked him how to gain speed. His answer was very very long, and it also involved philosophy. To summarize his answer, he said speed is just a bi-product of form and endurance. He emphasized form first and proper picking technique. Learn your scales and appregios by heart. Make sure your fingers land exactly at the middle of the frets. Be aware of the proper fingering. Next is endurance. Practicing constantly for long periods of time will develop endurance. He also gave me an analogy that guitar playing is similar to sports, lets say basketball. Your body develops certain specialized muscles for specialized movement. Again, this is due to long hours of playing.

Lastly, he said that there are guitar players who are really gifted to be super fast. He compared Clapton to Malmsteen, but he had a different point. He said that hitting a single note, while expressing all your feelings, is just equal to hitting a long scale run, with extreme speed. Darn i could not drive exactly to his point, but its more philosophical than technical.

that teacher of yours knows his stuff. you are lucky to have met such person.

[christer]

Oh, a little add on to what i wrote down previously. My teacher also gave an analogy on guitar playing and weight lifting. You don't directly lift 300lbs on the bench press on your first day of training and expect to have a pro wrestler's body afterwards. That is similar to guitar playing, you should not focus on shredding tricks and finger tappings when you have not even understood the major scale.

Hope his insight helps!

As for me, i experienced jamming with a wanna be shredder. While waiting for our turn in the music studio, he was doing all this tricks and finger tapping, and i really got intimidated. Come practice time, his playing was more annoying and laughable, i lost all respect to him. His "tricks" were not even in tune to the chord progression. Not even close.

If you want to be a good at your instrument or if you dream to be a shredder someday, learn your do-re-mi's first. All our virtuoso idols started out with that. At least thats my opinion.

[abyssinianson]

nope. people can study and become proficient at piano if they want to, however, only a few people can reach a caliber of mastery the likes of Beethoven or Chopin. the difference between a virtuoso - a REAL virtuoso - like, say, Van Halen or Jason Becker, and the rest of the population is that they have a vision and comfort with their instrument that comes naturally. People have tried to emulate these two guys but have rarely accomplished the same amount of mastery and influence they've attained.

Da Vinci was a gifted artist that studied art in Florence but even during his days as a student, he was out-of-the ordinary because of his grasp of his techniques and ability to "see" his painting while he worked.

[bluenote]

I had a long talk with my mentor today about this topic. By the way, this teacher of mine is a virtuoso in my book because of his technicality and speed. He's quite well known here in Bacolod. Anyway, I asked him how to gain speed. His answer was very very long, and it also involved philosophy. To summarize his answer, he said speed is just a bi-product of form and endurance. He emphasized form first and proper picking technique. Learn your scales and appregios by heart. Make sure your fingers land exactly at the middle of the frets. Be aware of the proper fingering. Next is endurance. Practicing constantly for long periods of time will develop endurance. He also gave me an analogy that guitar playing is similar to sports, lets say basketball. Your body develops certain specialized muscles for specialized movement. Again, this is due to long hours of playing.

Lastly, he said that there are guitar players who are really gifted to be super fast. He compared Clapton to Malmsteen, but he had a different point. He said that hitting a single note, while expressing all your feelings, is just equal to hitting a long scale run, with extreme speed. Darn i could not drive exactly to his point, but its more philosophical than technical.

Is Gabe Ascalon your teacher?

nope. people can study and become proficient at piano if they want to, however, only a few people can reach a caliber of mastery the likes of Beethoven or Chopin. the difference between a virtuoso - a REAL virtuoso - like, say, Van Halen or Jason Becker, and the rest of the population is that they have a vision and comfort with their instrument that comes naturally. People have tried to emulate these two guys but have rarely accomplished the same amount of mastery and influence they've attained.

Da Vinci was a gifted artist that studied art in Florence but even during his days as a student, he was out-of-the ordinary because of his grasp of his techniques and ability to "see" his painting while he worked.

Tumpak as I've said It is a gift some people have it and some do not. Yes you can attain a certain level of technical proficiecy if you practice a lot but you may never be at par with the really gifted one's.

[IncX]

Oh, a little add on to what i wrote down previously. My teacher also gave an analogy on guitar playing and weight lifting. You don't directly lift 300lbs on the bench press on your first day of training and expect to have a pro wrestler's body afterwards. That is similar to guitar playing, you should not focus on shredding tricks and finger tappings when you have not even understood the major scale.

Hope his insight helps!

As for me, i experienced jamming with a wanna be shredder. While waiting for our turn in the music studio, he was doing all this tricks and finger tapping, and i really got intimidated. Come practice time, his playing was more annoying and laughable, i lost all respect to him. His "tricks" were not even in tune to the chord progression. Not even close.

If you want to be a good at your instrument or if you dream to be a shredder someday, learn your do-re-mi's first. All our virtuoso idols started out with that. At least thats my opinion.

these so called shredders are the most annoying of the guitar creatures ive seen. you know they practice techniques just to show off.

[christer]

@bluenote: Nope, Gabe's not my teacher, but i know him. Are you from Bacolod?

[bluenote]

No but I know the guy he's one hell of a player... I was there a few month's ago we played at Sueno...

[Lahed92801]

Oh, a little add on to what i wrote down previously. My teacher also gave an analogy on guitar playing and weight lifting. You don't directly lift 300lbs on the bench press on your first day of training and expect to have a pro wrestler's body afterwards. That is similar to guitar playing, you should not focus on shredding tricks and finger tappings when you have not even understood the major scale.

Hope his insight helps!

As for me, i experienced jamming with a wanna be shredder. While waiting for our turn in the music studio, he was doing all this tricks and finger tapping, and i really got intimidated. Come practice time, his playing was more annoying and laughable, i lost all respect to him. His "tricks" were not even in tune to the chord progression. Not even close.

If you want to be a good at your instrument or if you dream to be a shredder someday, learn your do-re-mi's first. All our virtuoso idols started out with that. At least thats my opinion.

these so called shredders are the most annoying of the guitar creatures ive seen. you know they practice techniques just to show off.

Ouch bro... Di naman  Like me, ewan ko kung pwede na ako tawagin shredder pero i play songs like Far Beyond the Sun and Cliffs of Dover because i ENJOY it  Just like paginini and vivaldi pieces i play on electric guitar, i play them because i ENJOY them  If you say that about shredders, might as well say that about classical guitarists too  Being both a shred and classical practitioner, i don't think i practice technique to show off...

Medyo stereotypical naman yan, bro

[christer]

No, i think you read it differently sir. I think what he means are the "so called" shredders. Hindi po shredders talaga. Yung mga wanna be's po siguro ibig nyang sabihin.

[christer]

@ bluenote: You were here sir? What is the name of your band?

[bluenote]

Natural High. yup was there a couple of months ago I think...

[psychic_sushi]

Anyway.

I noticed the sports comparisons in earlier posts and I feel that it's a bit weird to compare musical ability to athletic ability. Why? Simply because athletic ability can be measured, whereas the judgments of a person's musical abilities have so many different parameters (note choice, phrasing, speed, dynamics, etc). Moreover, our judgments and perception of virtuosity is tainted by taste. Ergo, a virtuoso to one person may be the most boring guitar player to another.

Guitar playing is a physical activity, like SPORTS. If you don't understand the way your body works, then you can't maximize its potential. You're also opening yourself up to potential injuries.

Your parameters can be measured and practiced mechanically:

1) Note choice involves identifying a goal, directing towards it and hitting it.
2) Phrasing requires control and familiarity with the fretboard terrain
3) speed is measured by BPM
4) dynamics can be measured by SPLs... there are also prescribed parameters for dynamic range


Don't confuse musicality (the individual's creative tendencies) with virtuosity (an individual's technical potential). THose two don't necessarily come hand in hand but each would significantly benefit from each other's presence.

Amen, master perf.

very precious info there. the measure of your playing parameters is great with helping you identify you SWOTs, which in turn puts you in the fast track to development.

in addition, i feel that besides the technical aspect of performing, it is also important to hear properly. the great virtuosos, i've noticed, played to a high degree because of not only the physicality but because of how they listened and heard.

i was reading some stuff on dizzy gillespie, and noticed how he always stressed on rhythm (polyrhythms, to be exact) and how everything he did was lead by that. methinks his ears and head were "tuned" into something else. he then made mention of things he practiced when he was younger to develope that.

ayun, he practiced hard, too.

from a jazz standpoint, the purpose of practice is to tune your ears and body to sounds, to achieve a certain sync and fluency. only by internalizing tonal and rhythmic textures can the musician call upon them in an improv setting without making the lines sound "practiced". its memorization and familiarization thats the key. and all the greats had to do that to keep up with each other. all the greats, had to start from scratch, too. they were like you and me once upon a time.

[christer]

Ano po yung tugtugan nyo sir? I might have been there.

[levitate]

I think so..
But for me I think I still need millions of years to get to that level...maybe reincarnated in the future ..
I haven't devised a serious formula for this, one formula that I can't think of is "honesty". I think that should be the First step though I haven't practiced it yet..hehehe..
Honesty in a sense that you listen to yourself what you want to attain or play not being dragged by outside forces or peer pressure in a guitar community...
If you really like Emo....to hell with others who hate emo...Be yourself and stand up to what you believe in!!.. 
2nd formula should be "respect"..respect to genres of music..respect to the guitar style..breaking the rules still show respect to a new genre of guitar playing.
All of these are just mere theoretical ideas but just might affect the mental aura of a guitar player..
All of these are mental challenges..

[jazhombie]

    .... self awareness is the key... know your level,kahit sino pwede maging virtuoso if they practice, but hindi lahat makakaabot sa highest level.. kasi merong mga tao na kahit 24 hrs mag practice sa isang araw--ay hanggang doon n lng talaga ang kaya... meron naman 30 mins lng binasa yung piyesa tapos memorized na kagad w/ perfect execution na kagad ...and tama respect is important, wag puro appreciation lng sa craft mo, take time na makinig din sa ibang genre or guitar playing and appreciate it too ...

[Lahed92801]

No, i think you read it differently sir. I think what he means are the "so called" shredders. Hindi po shredders talaga. Yung mga wanna be's po siguro ibig nyang sabihin.

AH! Di ko nakita yung "so called" 

[Phil]

Oh, a little add on to what i wrote down previously. My teacher also gave an analogy on guitar playing and weight lifting. You don't directly lift 300lbs on the bench press on your first day of training and expect to have a pro wrestler's body afterwards. That is similar to guitar playing, you should not focus on shredding tricks and finger tappings when you have not even understood the major scale.

Hope his insight helps!

As for me, i experienced jamming with a wanna be shredder. While waiting for our turn in the music studio, he was doing all this tricks and finger tapping, and i really got intimidated. Come practice time, his playing was more annoying and laughable, i lost all respect to him. His "tricks" were not even in tune to the chord progression. Not even close.

If you want to be a good at your instrument or if you dream to be a shredder someday, learn your do-re-mi's first. All our virtuoso idols started out with that. At least thats my opinion.

these so called shredders are the most annoying of the guitar creatures ive seen. you know they practice techniques just to show off.

  naninibago pa yan.... you can tell if they are still new to guitar playing.

BTW...watch Simpsons the Movie.... Bart showed his weiner.....freaking hilarious.

[christer]

Is Gabe Ascalon your teacher?

I forgot to mention my teacher. His name is Marlon Sipe, former bandmate of Joey Ayala in a 70's Neo Ethnic band called Waling waling, honestly he's too modest to tell me his other bands. He was also the mentor of Allan K's brother, whos name i forgot. Anyway, he's really a good man. I get a lot of other lessons like philosophy and religion, during our sessions.

[Deadwing]

    .... self awareness is the key... know your level,kahit sino pwede maging virtuoso if they practice, but hindi lahat makakaabot sa highest level.. kasi merong mga tao na kahit 24 hrs mag practice sa isang araw--ay hanggang doon n lng talaga ang kaya

When training for a marathon, this is called "hitting the wall".  I think in any physical endeavor that training is involved, the trainer gets to this certain point sometimes.  There are way to go around breaking that wall as well. 

I know one method of breaking that wall in guitar playing, especially in terms of getting finger dexterity is to play to the speed limit one can handle, then bumping it down a few bpms until they can get the lick/riff/passage down and then slowly bump the bpms up again.