The Zildjian Family Feud... And How Sabian Began

[drumster]

Okay, a lot of Pinoy drummers are curious about how this Zildjian-Sabian feud began.  So, we'll talk about it here in this thread.

Thanks to the power of Google hehe, I'm able to research about this.

Here's what's said on Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabian_(company) )...

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Sabian is a Canadian cymbal designer and manufacturer. It is one of the largest in the world, along with Zildjian, Paiste and Meinl.

The company was founded in 1981 in Meductic, New Brunswick, Canada by Robert Zildjian, son of Avedis Zildjian III, the head of the Avedis Zildjian Company. Family tradition had it that the head of the company would only pass its secrets down to the oldest son, but Avedis III gave the information to both his sons, Armand and Robert. This led to a family feud and a legal squabble, resulting in Robert leaving Zildjian to form the rival Sabian company. The companies continue to be rivals, and are both among the world's most popular cymbal brands.

The settlement gave Robert Zildjian the Canadian factory that at that time produced 40% of the production of the Avedis Zildjian Company, and most notably the entire K Zildjian line, all manufacturing in Turkey having ceased by this time. Robert agreed not to use the Zildjian name or to claim that his cymbals were the same. The most notable difference between Zildjian and Sabian is that Zildjian uses a softer, mellower sounding alloy while Sabian uses a more tin-based alloy. The cymbals of the two companies today can be distinguished by sound fairly easily. Sabian are relatively thinner for their advertised weight. Sabian cymbals have longer sustain (with some exceptions) than their Zildjian counterparts, and Zildjian have a faster response (or attack). Sabian cymbals tend to be mellower in sound overall, but all of these differences wholly depend on the individual cymbal model.

Robert Zildjian formed the word "Sabian" from the two first letters of the names of his three children Sally, Billy and Andy, and initially released two lines of cymbals, HH and AA, both of them of the traditional bell bronze alloy.


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If you know any additional facts, info and/or trivia about this topic, please share it here.

 

[harugrugrug]

yup sir! its true.. nagulantang ako nung una kong nalaman na taga zildjian member din ang may air ng sabian.. at lalu na kung panu nabuo ang sabian...
they are monopolizing the cymbal lines.. hehe.. buti na lnag may bhosphorus,stagg,meinl,paiste atbp.
the patterns of the cymbal line are the same though different names...

K-Hand Hammered
K custom-HHX
avedis Zildjian-AA
A custom-AAX
Constantinople-Artisan/Vault
Z custom-AAX metal
zbt-b8
zbtpro-b8pro
planet z-solar
zxt/zht-xs20 (fil ko lang pero mejo same concept?)
asuka-el sabor
pero halus pareho di ba?

[residentdrummer4]

helo mga sirs ask ko lang sana kung ano class ng sabian Pro cymbals. is it a mid end cymbal or ist one of the lower end/beginners type? ala lang, i'm just curious.

[harugrugrug]

oo nga noh.. sn na nga ba napunta ang pro.. i think it's from medium to low ende types.. for me.. at alam kko nag shoot pa yan ng pro sonix?

[drumster]

For more info and discussion about Sabian cymbals, look for the Sabian Thread.  Or better yet, visit Sabian's website.


Regarding the cymbal lines, yes, Zildjian and Sabian do have their series counterparts.  Both manufacturers have something special to offer.  But it's still up to our ears to judge which sounds better and which are more appropriate for specific musical situations.  In this case, beauty is at the ear of the beholder.


There are stories which say that Sabian was able to bring in a number of authentic Turkish cymbalsmiths when they were starting out.  And these craftsmen were the ones who used to create the authentic Turkish K cymbals.  So, some drummers believe that Sabian's hand-hammered line are the real deal, or the next best thing to Turkish K's. 

Any more traces to this story?  I read this somewhere online...

[Bammbamm]

I've read an article somewhere that states the difference between these two big names is the way they make cymbals. One of them is more into traditonal cymbal-making (manual/handmade), while the other is inclined to use modern technology (machine/computer).

I just can't assert which is which. 

Anyway, as far as I remember, Dindin posted something similar to this topic in this forum....

[intake]

nabasa ko din to sa tabi-tabing drum forums akala ko hindi totoo
tapos ayun chinika sa akin ni harugrugrug...kaya pala may -ian

siguro ang yaman na talaga ng may ari ng zildjian at sabian no? ay chismax! 

[drumster]

Here it is...  I found bro Dindin's old post at the Zildjian thread.

Here's a quick Zildjian/Sabian History Lesson...

Division of Company Following Avedis Zildjian's Death in 1979

Avedis Zildjian ran the company that bore his name until his death at age 90 in 1979. He left the company to his two sons, Armand and Robert. Though the secret alloy the first Avedis had invented in1623 probably was not much of a secret in the era of modern metallurgy, still the family business had moved through generations by transmission of this recipe to one individual. Armand and Robert Zildjian had both been involved in Avedis Zildjian Co. for years, and when the company was bequeathed to both of them, they had to take to the courts to determine how to proceed. The major problem was that they had extremely different views on how to run the company. Armand, the older brother, was in favor of modern technology and modern business management techniques. Robert apparently had more of a hands-on approach to running the business, and did not want outside consultants giving him advice. Robert also advocated making a lower-priced line of cymbals to appeal to young amateurs. Armand did not want to. Resentment between the brothers escalated to ferocious animosity. In 1981, the company split, with Robert taking the Canadian subsidiary. He renamed it Sabian.

Sabian continued to make cymbals in an old-fashioned process, with a large amount of skilled hand work. Zildjian moved in the opposite direction, filling its factory with computerized controls so that hand-work was at a minimum. Sabian agreed not to compete with Zildjian in the U.S. market until 1983. It entered the market in a fiercely antagonistic mode, claiming that Sabian cymbals were the true Zildjians, made by the ancient recipe. Both companies innovated, following the ideas of professional drummers and using well-known musicians to endorse their products. By the mid-1980s, Zildjian was still the leading cymbal manufacturer in the world, with a market share of about 40 percent worldwide. Sabian was in second place or close to second place, sharing the spot with a Swiss company, Paiste A.G.

1990s and Beyond

In the following decade, Zildjian continued to lead the world cymbal market, despite competition from Sabian. Sales stood at around $34 million by the late 1990s, with the total worldwide market for cymbals valued at only about $50 million. The company entered a new line of business beginning in 1989, when it purchased a drumstick manufacturing plant in Alabama. In the 1990s Zildjian grew to become one of the world's leading drumstick manufacturers. When Zildjian celebrated its 375th anniversary in 1998, it was endorsed by many of the leading jazz drummers in the United States. Zildjian also courted symphonic talent, working with a percussionist from the Boston Symphony to come up with a new line of cymbals for orchestral use. In the late 1990s, Zildjian's product line ran from tiny finger cymbals and low-priced cymbals for beginners to hand-crafted Ride cymbals retailing for over $600. In 1999, Armand Zildjian named his daughter Craigie as vice-president and CEO. He remained president and chairman, but it seemed clear that she would be his successor, the first woman in such a position in the firm's history.

siguro ang yaman na talaga ng may ari ng zildjian at sabian no? ay chismax! 

No doubt about that.  These old folks are actually rich.

[vdonati_fan]

Here are some helpful vids to spot the difference between the two brands. It also discusses the different process the cymbals undergo....from Dindin's post. The vids are actually tours of the Zildjian and Sabian Factory...

You would really find these vids enticing, you're in a room full of cymbals...Ks on the right, As on your left...grabe! kakapaglaway...

SABIAN - Year of the Vault

SABIAN - Year of the Vault - 2

making zildjian cymbals

zildjian factory tour

The Zildjian Secret, Part 1 of 2

The Zildjian Secret, Part 2 of 2