hulika

Author Topic: help on mixing bass tracks  (Read 1964 times)

Offline bagtasa

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help on mixing bass tracks
« on: August 28, 2007, 10:47:14 PM »
my bass tracks are never loud enough, after compression (hard knee/ high ratio), masyadong ipit na ang sound, i dont know kung ipit ang term pero thats what im feeling, parang di maka-hinga yun bass.  is this a compressor setting issue or eq?

btw DI ang pag record ko ng bass after a bass amp modeler.

this is more evident pag linakasan ko pa siya using some plug-ins for more gain, clip na kasi sa sonar pero compared to commercial cd's ang hina (di ko naman hinahabol na kasing lakas ng commercial music, but at least comparable at di makakasira ng speaker pag next track is commercial)

hope somebody could help me, thanks very much

here are some of my recordings

evanescence cover (my wife singing)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=396825&songID=5717399

2 of my recent compositions
"Over" (my wife singing again)
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=396825&songID=5709057
"feel the fire"
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=396825&songID=5709069

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2007, 01:23:07 AM »
what settings are you using right now. i'd like to help you out but I need a bit more information as far as what your workflow entails when processing and recording bass.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline audioslave

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2007, 10:52:25 AM »
subukan mo muna pagdikitin yung bass and kick makakatulong yon sa song mo and bawasan mo ng konti yung hats, nice songs tho :-) subukan mong wag uminom ng kape para wag kang nerbyosin dagdagan yung lows pero talaga nakakatakot sumabog yung speakers eh mahal kc hehehe
bleh bleh bleh

Offline bagtasa

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2007, 12:17:35 PM »
actually i use sonar6, compress ko yun bass ko using (i dont know if youre familiar with this) sonitus, setting ko is ratio = 9, attack 5.5ms, release 445ms, threshold -15 to - 20. based sa preset with little tweak. honestly di ko pa rin gets yun setting ng attack and release (i understand the theory, but not how it translate to actual sound)

sa mix, ok na rin for me, and yeah I start with kick and bass. but the volume (not peak but i guess rms) after the mix is relatively low

after the mix, i use wavelab to add more volume (peak master yun name ng plugin), the problem of bass becomes evident after taasan ang volume, so i need to use a multiband compressor and lessen the lows, so yun bass ay humihina at di na makahinga

is this info helpful? ah and another thing, wala akong monitors ngayon, so i use earphones (shure ec2) to mix, i know thats a big no no but i use what i have  :-D

thanks guys

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2007, 01:00:17 PM »
actually i use sonar6, compress ko yun bass ko using (i dont know if youre familiar with this) sonitus, setting ko is ratio = 9, attack 5.5ms, release 445ms, threshold -15 to - 20. based sa preset with little tweak. honestly di ko pa rin gets yun setting ng attack and release (i understand the theory, but not how it translate to actual sound)

sa mix, ok na rin for me, and yeah I start with kick and bass. but the volume (not peak but i guess rms) after the mix is relatively low

after the mix, i use wavelab to add more volume (peak master yun name ng plugin), the problem of bass becomes evident after taasan ang volume, so i need to use a multiband compressor and lessen the lows, so yun bass ay humihina at di na makahinga

is this info helpful? ah and another thing, wala akong monitors ngayon, so i use earphones (shure ec2) to mix, i know thats a big no no but i use what i have  :-D

thanks guys

ok. so to start things off, I'll try to explain a bit of the concept about attack and release as simply as I can. i notice that your soundclick profile shows you holding a Les Paul type guitar so i guess you are a guitar player? think of "attack" as the presence of your bass or guitar tone, the more attack you have the more upfront, sharp and obvious your guitar picking will be. usually, I try and use attack setting sparingly when I pick with my fingers and I dial it in to taste when I record using a pick because you don't want the pick sound to stand out too much in the mix.

"Release" is a compressor control that is meant to shape the tail end of your guitar signal passing through the compressor. Notice that as you increase the release setting, the signal doesn't chop off as much as setting the compressor release setting close to zero. The idea when using a compressor is that you want the compressed signal to trail off naturally so your signal sounds solid, consistent without introducing too many transients that may make it onto your recording. Reverb works kinda like the same way when guitarists say something like,"The reverb sounds really natural because my picked notes naturally die off and they don't sound lopped off at the end."

As far as the Sonitus settings go, try the following settings and play around with them: set the ratio to 2:1, attack to 5, release to 1000ms, threshold at -10 to -5. I don't know how the ratio works with Sonitus but I suspect that your high setting is part of the problem because you are essentially clamping down on your bass signal and treating it like it is a drum signal; a 9:1 ratio is way to high.

When you are recording and mixing your different instruments, try and record them at a volume that is as close to 0db without clipping. This is very important because you want to record at a usable volume. This way, you will have more than enough headroom to mix lower through your master fader because your instruments were recorded hot enough. If you record guitars loud shy of clipping, you will take advantage of all the nuances of the guitar signal and be able to avoid boosting the signal in post-processing. Remember that you want to have the characteristics of the bass, the preamp and your playing to come through with as less sculpting as possible; a good recording to begin with is always better than excessive engineering in my book. I always try and shoot for a prime performance and setting before recording because there is nothing worse than trying to doctor a good bass tone using Eqs and all the plugins in the world.

The way I record bass is usually through the blending of 2 signals, a miked signal and a DI signal. both signals pass through two different hardware pres and compressors into 2 channels on PT HD or Cubase and then a blend gets mixed into a new bus channel where I apply my EQ and other effects.

hope this helps. experiment with different settings and see what you get.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 01:09:09 PM by abyssinianson »
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!


Offline KitC

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2007, 01:25:30 PM »
I know i'm gonna get flamed with this so I'm gonna put on my flame suit first...

How do you know that the mix was tracked by a guitarist? Because the guitar tracks sounds great at the expense of other instruments... and even vocals! (no offense to our guitar wielding forumers, of course)

That's the hard part about mixing, disassociating oneself with the instrument you know best then trying to blend in everything else around it. I always keep saying, what is the focus of your song? One particular instrument or the vocals? If it's a vocal oriented sound, then every instrument should revolve around the vocals. If the track is an instrumental, then whatever instrument is at center stage should grab the listener's attention.

The reason your bass is disappearing is that everything else is going in at full spectrum into your mix. What should occupy the bass end of the spectrum? Why bass guitar and the kick, of course (and contrabasses, some cello, maybe even a tuba if you included it in your tracks). The point is, identify what needs to occupy the bass frequencies then put a high pass filter on all the other instruments. That way, you have better control over what occupies the bass spectrum and you have better control when compressing that part.

There is an emerging trend called parallel compression where a compressor is inserted into an aux and the bass sent to that aux and compressed to within an inch of it's life. The dry bass track and wet aux are then recombined to create a large bass track that still retains dynamics because of the unprocessed track. Try to google the technique so that you can get a better grasp of it since it is a little bit hard to explain.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2007, 01:41:27 PM »
I know i'm gonna get flamed with this so I'm gonna put on my flame suit first...

How do you know that the mix was tracked by a guitarist? Because the guitar tracks sounds great at the expense of other instruments... and even vocals! (no offense to our guitar wielding forumers, of course)



Oh, because of three things: guy said he mixed it, his Soundclips page has him weilding a guitar and he has his wife singing on the tracks so I assume that the dude (a guitar player) did the project on his own. Plus, his gear list is pretty guitar-centric. Epi les paul etc with a bunch of stomp boxes and such. If he were a bass player, I would've expected to see a more conscious effort to bring out the bass a bit more but since he didn't, I took my assumption to explain stuff from a guitarists perspective, thats all.

Now that you mentioned it, it kinda makes sense though that the guitars sound pretty out front because, now that you mentioned it, they do take a center stage at the expense of everything else.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 01:45:15 PM by abyssinianson »
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline KitC

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2007, 01:44:44 PM »
Oh, because of three things: guy said he mixed it, his Soundclips page has him weilding a guitar and he has his wife singing on the tracks so I assume that the dude (a guitar player) did the project on his own. Kinda makes sense though that the guitars sound pretty out front because, now that you mentioned it, they do take a center stage at the expense of everything else.

hehe, it was a joke, Mikey! I did start reading the thread from the top and I listened to his soundclips too. Btw, @bagtasa - your wife's vocals sound a bit separated from the mix, you might to blend her in a bit. OT: Anyway, I captured this for posterity.

I honestly think this is the first time I've ever been really interested in a Line 6 product. 
  :-D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 01:46:12 PM by KitC »
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Offline abyssinianson

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2007, 01:48:07 PM »
hehe, it was a joke, Mikey! I did start reading the thread from the top. OT: Anyway, I captured this for posterity.
  :-D

No problem, it is all good, boss:) It was a good point that you brought up about distancing yourself from your primary instrument. I find it hard to approach mixing as well without focusing too much on the piano (my primary instrument), guitar or drums. And, I think it is also key that he have a good understanding of the frequencies in the track because it can really make or break a well mixed piece.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 01:49:12 PM by abyssinianson »
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline bitflipper

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2007, 05:29:02 AM »
Let me add my $0.02, with the caveat that I am not a bass player, either.

Listening to the cut, it seems the problem is there just hasn't been any space left for the bass. The kick's a little light, too, probably for the same reason.

1. Bring down the vocal a little and the guitar a little more
2. Use your equalizer to carve some space in the low end, taking it mostly from the guitar - don't be afraid to let the bass own that low end
3. 5.5ms may be too fast an attack on the bass compressor, causing it to lose punch. Start around 50ms and increase until it sounds right.
4. Roll off some low end on the bass, boost the second harmonic and raise the level. Rolling off below around 80Hz on the bass will leave some room to bring the kick drum up.
5. Soften the overall compression a little so all the instruments have a little room to breathe

Just my opinion, hope it helps.



Offline bagtasa

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2007, 10:44:00 AM »
yeah guitar is my primary instrument but i played all the other instruments, drums are programmed  (picture on my soundclick page i guess gave it away) :-D

actually i already shaved off some lows sa guitar, i guess that's not enough. also i'll changed the compression settings, the mix of wet and dry signals sounds interesting, all suggestions are noted  :-)

though i've been recording for a few years now, the actual hours i logged in mixing (including reading mixing books) is minimal. old newbie kumbaga

also one problem ko pa is from the moment i hear the melodies sa isip ko to actual mp3, ako lang ako nakakarinig, im too "in" sa music di ko na naririnig ano ang mali  :-(

thanks guys sa lahat ng info  :-D

Offline KitC

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Re: help on mixing bass tracks
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2007, 11:07:26 AM »
also one problem ko pa is from the moment i hear the melodies sa isip ko to actual mp3, ako lang ako nakakarinig, im too "in" sa music di ko na naririnig ano ang mali  :-(

That's why I sometimes go back to a mix about a week after. If you're happy with the mix and someone already agrees with you, leave it. In all truth, a mix is never really finished. It's only until a producer tells you so.
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