Melodicism and Cerebralness

[Lahed92801]

Can you quanitfy melodicism and cerebralness of improvisation? I mean you can give ways to be melodic like:

Use a lot of leaps
Stay inside the scale
don't play long scalar passages
Have a lot of phrasing varations
Repeating motifs
arpeggios
and ways to be cerebral:

Long scalar passages
fast runs
inside-outside playing
chromaticism
But how DO you define these two?

whew! pre iniisip mo yan? hehe. hindi ba nag susuffer ang playing mo?

Hehehe, di naman masyado. Sa mga lick copping at practice sessions mostly 

[Bammbamm]

Siguro, kumbaga sa kungfu, kapag na master mo na lahat ng moves, it will naturally come out depending on the situation. Ibabagay mo din naman yung ilalagay mo sa level ng kalaro mo...nga ba? 

[jazhombie]

Siguro, kumbaga sa kungfu, kapag na master mo na lahat ng moves, it will naturally come out depending on the situation. Ibabagay mo din naman yung ilalagay mo sa level ng kalaro mo...nga ba? 

yeah, that's true... like the Drunken' master..

[psychic_sushi]

Siguro, kumbaga sa kungfu, kapag na master mo na lahat ng moves, it will naturally come out depending on the situation. Ibabagay mo din naman yung ilalagay mo sa level ng kalaro mo...nga ba? 

yeah, that's true... like the Drunken' master..

on the topic of kung fu, cerebral palsy, and melodic-heads...

the analytical part is VITAL. you have to brush up on your observation skills, doing so helps you "get into the groove" of the jazz vocabulary, helps you define notes and textures, and improves your music appreciation tastes.

BUT...

It is to be left in the privacy of your bedroom. Coz that side of your head has to be deactivated when you start playing in front of people. particularly if you are playing jazz. 

the greats notoriously woodeshedded and studied. mike stern had mentors, and stern also mentors students. he has a great one in the person of oz noy.

back to the original topic...

i feel that it is important to strike a balance between the two. honestly, what you play does not matter until you make a connection with the listener. look at language- does the use of hifalutin language impress people? not many can relate to advanced vocabulary.   theres's your cerebralness.

on the other hand, a simple vocabulary inventory is just too limiting for expression. the best melodies are short and memorable (dont even bring up "spain", demmit... hahahah)

but...

it is possible to strike a balance between the two. the most eloquent speakers and literary figures i look up too were not necessary "scientific" with their use of words and phrases, but are inventive, using common terms in a new light. they communicate in a sophisticated fashion using the simplest tools.

music-wise, take jim hall, for instance. he isn't a marathon runner on the fretboard. his lines can be simple, poignant, and he can summon the oblique at will. ditto for keith jarret, who in one turn can sound like a crowd rushing at you with the density of notes he uses on his improv excursions, then suddenly lull you with the simplest and most sublime melodies, like a lover whispering sweet nothings in your ear 

bottomline- find a way to conquer and command the two.

[william251082]

'u have to LISTEN, u can't go by talk, that's d way people sell things...'
- miles davis

[itchybrain]

this thread is sweet. like miles. keet it comin'...

[aya_yuson]

this thread is sweet. like miles. keet it comin'...

"Keet"?

Parang Keet Jarrett? O Keet Reechards?
 

[Lahed92801]

"Keet"?

Parang Keet Jarrett? O Keet Reechards?
 

Jimmy Keet, Keet Miller, Brian Keet jass triow 

Anyone here think that there IS a definable way to make singable lines? 

[itchybrain]

di po. si keet karadeen.   sensya na, sir aya. toes ko kase pinangtatype ko.  

[william251082]

i'll let miles say something about this or whatever, this is a good watch, totally worth your time.

feature=PlayList&p=9CC4A629CD5B3EFF&index=6

[fusionenigma]

you can't just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk.

 

[skarlet]

I'm a  music theory idiot who happens to love improvisations.

for me, nangyayari na lang yung improvs without even knowing what i'm doing, and i can't even explain what i did. Minsan i know it's good coz it felt good, minsan naman pwede na. but in my experience when im relaxed the improvs are great. pag may ibang factors like there's that "im-out-to -prove-something" factor...palpak na improv ang nangyayari.

Improvs are very personnal. It depends also on the emotional sate of the musician at that very moment.

Skarlet Skavavoom

[micr0chimp]

I agree completely.  Dapat maganda ang state of mind mo to get into a good improvisation groove.  Dapat willing ka to get lost in the moment regardless of the risk of falling flat on your face.  At ang laking bagay din na kampante ang loob mo sa mga kasama mo.  There has to be trust that everyone is covering everybody else's back, everyone wants everybody else to play well and feel great doing it.

[william251082]

a common misconception about improvising is the phrase, 'play what you hear' or 'play by ear'. Many players say they do this, leading students to think that they simply make music up on the spot but the case is that what they are really doing is 'playing what they already know'.

Improvising is the spontaneous performance of ideas that come to you in th midst of soloing.   

[VicDiaz]

Humans invented music first before discovering they have brains. Why put too much emphasis on intellectualism?

Eventually, you dont have to ask why not so many people appreciate your music...

[jazhombie]

Humans invented music first before discovering they have brains. Why put too much emphasis on intellectualism?

Eventually, you dont have to ask why not so many people appreciate your music...

this is a good one!

[itchybrain]

this is a good one!

korek. music is listening, then appreciating, and THEN imbibing. that's why i can never appreciate tabs. i'd rather let my ears bleed listening to the guitar licks that i want to "learn" rather than read [tab] music.  i guess improvs come from the deepest auditory experiences of musicians that eventually manifest themselves when the need arises. i may be wrong but trying to intellectualize music is like trying to intellectualize the feel of the wind.

[Lahed92801]

theory never hurt anyone 

[Bammbamm]

To learn music is to use one's ears and brain, to play is to use one's heart & soul. 

[william251082]

To learn music is to use one's ears and brain, to play is to use one's heart & soul. 

that's great...

'learn them then forget them'- miles davis

[itchybrain]

that's great...

'learn them then forget them'- miles davis

mismo. this is true for all art forms; from literature to dance to cinema, etc. it's also right to say, "theory never hurt anyone." at least learn the basics then, with whatever art form you want to be extremely good at, throw the textbooks out the window and make your own. it's always easy to imitate but TO CREATE is a whole other story.

[jazhombie]

mismo. this is true for all art forms; from literature to dance to cinema, etc. it's also right to say, "theory never hurt anyone." at least learn the basics then, with whatever art form you want to be extremely good at, throw the textbooks out the window and make your own. it's always easy to imitate but TO CREATE is a whole other story.

+1000 agree, make ur own trademark...

[Bammbamm]

Innovation is easier than creation.


..just playing safe here. 

[Lahed92801]

Hehe, guys, would you say that you "develop" phrasing and melodicness? Kasi i noticed dati my improvisations gravitated to fast scale runs and arpeggios... Now (4-5 months later) i notice i pay more attention to phrasing and making notes count hehhe. or is this just a change of infulence kaya

diba sabi nga ni miles, you can only hear so much but know much more  Errr, i dont think anyone can hear a whole tone scale or a whole-half scale (both very cool sounds imo) 

[itchybrain]

Innovation is easier than creation.


..just playing safe here. 

hmmm. tama rin naman but the advancement of musicianship is not a question of going the easy route but one of passion and dedication towards perfection in your craft. training the ears is so different from training the eyes [in music]. now, the bottom line is  that if you don't have the passion and dedication, you better be a genius to pull things off brilliantly.

Hehe, guys, would you say that you "develop" phrasing and melodicness? Kasi i noticed dati my improvisations gravitated to fast scale runs and arpeggios... Now (4-5 months later) i notice i pay more attention to phrasing and making notes count hehhe. or is this just a change of infulence kaya

diba sabi nga ni miles, you can only hear so much but know much more  Errr, i dont think anyone can hear a whole tone scale or a whole-half scale (both very cool sounds imo) 

i've forgotten all about arpeggios and music theories because i chose to drink with the jocks at the kiosk rather than attend my guitar classes, so i got a [DOUBLE] DQ (delinquent) and realized that i don't have what it takes to be a musician.  so i quit. then i found my real passion, which is film, and so i believed that music was just a phase in my youth. but recently "i found the blues" (again) and started practicing where i left off 15 years ago. i think that i'm doing the same [gooey brown stuff] pentatonic scales that i hear with every guitarist i meet. so what's new? i asked myself what i really wanted out of music and guitar playing in general, and i found that i just wanted to play the blues. that simple. i don't want to be a rockstar or the next stanley jordan or perf. i just want to play. play the way music should be played--with the ear of the heart.  corny ba? sorry. hehe. figuratively, i am influenced by my ears; whatever i hear translates to what i can do with the guitar regardless of the limitations of my skills. what miles might be saying is about the clarity and/or the familiarity of the notes that we hear. so maybe, just maybe, it's not about influences at all but more of listening to your own music, rather than just hearing it. there is a difference.