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Author Topic: VOX AC and Hiwatt amps  (Read 19875 times)

Offline Phil

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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2006, 07:28:36 AM »
Quote from: oasgomez
Glassjaw,

I actually rely on both. I cannot entirely depend on my ears because I have to assess whether what I am hearing can also be heard by others.  Each of us has a different way of hearing things.  This is my bias:  I am in favor of boutique amps and some of the older stuff.  This means I talk to and deal with high end US amp retailers, Ultrasound on the East Coast and Amp Shop in the West Coast.  They have and I mean have the best sounding amps in the world under one roof.  Specially Ultrasound.

I rely on them to give an honest assessment of an amp because:  they have everything or close to tried everything -- they have 5 dumbles I think and several Komets, Bruno, Diezels, VHTs, Bad Cats, CAAs, Matchless, Alessandro,  Victorias, Marshalls and even some Peaveys, etc...., they have soundproof rehearsal rooms, they dont have degrees in engineering so to they tend to be more honest because no matter how expensive an amp -- they will tell you if it sounds lousy, they always ask for your type of music and are sensitive to what particular sound you want, most importantly they have a real vintage Gibson 59 sunburst to test and calibrate their amps.  I thought initially it would be cool to have a KOMET because I heard they were sensitive amps and I felt I would be ASTIG sa Philippines but Ultrasound discouraged me and insisted that I get the Diezel Herbert because they felt it was a better amp for the music that I wanted.  They were also concerned about the operating level and felt the Diezel sounded good at any volume versus the KOMET which only sounded good when cranked which they felt was really loud and not for the Philippine situation.   Given that set up, how can we with our limitations pretend to know how the real good amps sound?  We talk about the elusive sound of Voxes and Marshalls that we want to copy but they have 5 Dumbles to plug in anytime of day and vintage Voxes and Marshalls are just plain vanilla and they are selective about those too.
Amp Shop sucks. It's a small mom and pop store in the corner of Ventura and Woodman( close to my place of work)....I know the place ...I went there to ask for estimate to bias my amp.....assholes.

....$45 dollars to bias an amp 2 week waiting period ....geeeesh..
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Offline markflo

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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2006, 07:56:01 AM »
ey man...i'll bias your amp! hehehe...

jesus effin' christ...so what if you don't have the best tone out there? just play yer godd@mn geetars! tone is in the fingers, ...so what if you never ever hear them "bowteeeq" amplifiers? i hate these effin' tone snobs...it's not about the equipment, these are just toys...it's about you, the player...inspiration comes from within yourself, not within the amp! when you hear a great song, a great solo, whatever,  you don't go "if i only had HIS equipment, his bowteeeq amps, i could be inspired to write something that will be a hit, but i don't...so i'm not inspired."...that's BS...

so i'm gonna stop ramblin' on right here because it's off topic...

anyway, BAMF...make that amp and make it sound good to YOU...i fully support what you're doing...kaya din nating mga pinoy yan...inspite what other snobs say...
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline sonnyrayvaughn

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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2006, 07:59:10 AM »
Quote from: markflo
ey man...i'll bias your amp! hehehe...

jesus effin' christ...so what if you don't have the best tone out there? just play yer godd@mn geetars! tone is in the fingers, ...so what if you never ever hear them "bowteeeq" amplifiers? i hate these effin' tone snobs...it's not about the equipment, these are just toys...it's about you, the player...inspiration comes from within yourself, not within the amp! when you hear a great song, a great solo, whatever,  you don't go "if i only had HIS equipment, his bowteeeq amps, i could play that thing too, but i don't...so i'm not inspired."...that's BS...

so i'm gonna stop ramblin' on right here because it's off topic...

anyway, BAMF...make that amp and make it sound good to YOU...i fully support what you're doing...kaya din nating mga pinoy yan...inspite what other snobs say...


 =D>  \:D/  :-({|=

Offline Phil

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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2006, 07:59:26 AM »
Quote from: markflo
ey man...i'll bias your amp! hehehe...

jesus effin' christ...so what if you don't have the best tone out there? just play yer godd@mn geetars! tone is in the fingers, ...so what if you never ever hear them "bowteeeq" amplifiers? i hate these effin' tone snobs...it's not about the equipment, these are just toys...it's about you, the player...inspiration comes from within yourself, not within the amp! when you hear a great song, a great solo, whatever,  you don't go "if i only had HIS equipment, his bowteeeq amps, i could play that thing too, but i don't...so i'm not inspired."...that's BS...

so i'm gonna stop ramblin' on right here because it's off topic...

anyway, BAMF...make that amp and make it sound good to YOU...i fully support what you're doing...kaya din nating mga pinoy yan...inspite what other snobs say...
I had it biased for $20 while I wait by an amp tech here in my area. ( www.tone-man.com ) ...Don...stand-up guy...explains everything to you while he's doing it.

Anyways, I had to learn how to bias my amp though.....I know now how to do it.

BAMF....do it. Let us know how it all works out.
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Offline markflo

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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2006, 08:12:40 AM »
haha...same here...i learned by watching the guy bias my amp! saves a whole but t load of money...hehehe...what's the setting of yoru bias now?
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln


Offline Phil

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« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2006, 08:23:09 AM »
Quote from: markflo
haha...same here...i learned by watching the guy bias my amp! saves a whole but t load of money...hehehe...what's the setting of yoru bias now?


...I'm happy with 32mA per tube right now in my Carvin MTS3212 combo. The Legacy is still in stock bias....meaning "cold"....but I'm happy with the tone I'm getting right now....no need to touch that.
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Offline glassjaw_jc

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« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2006, 02:00:01 PM »
Quote from: BAMF
So here's a soundclip of the El Tubero preamp.


sir, sayang di namin majudge based on the clip. low quality ata ang pagkarecord and, c'mon! i'm sure you can play better than that. :)

pero initial observation, manipis at buzzy ang tunog.

the good thing is, it produces a sound :)
Surf's Up!

Offline glassjaw_jc

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« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2006, 02:09:08 PM »
oasegomez, i get your point. but don't you think we have enough world class musicians to rely on when it comes to judging good tone? for me kasi, medyo limiting yung approach mo. you will never consider a locally produced amp even if maraming magsasabi na maganda ang tunog nya. because, as you've said, you think we're not exposed enough. i might be wrong but following your logic, that may be the case.
Surf's Up!

Offline Phil

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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2006, 02:12:19 PM »
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
oasegomez, i get your point. but don't you think we have enough world class musicians to rely on when it comes to judging good tone? for me kasi, medyo limiting yung approach mo. you will never consider a locally produced amp even if maraming magsasabi na maganda ang tunog nya. because, as you've said, you think we're not exposed enough. i might be wrong but following your logic, that may be the case.
expose to what? ALL the botique amps?....you must be crazy.
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Offline glassjaw_jc

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« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2006, 02:52:07 PM »
Phil, i think you misunderstood my post.
Surf's Up!

Offline Phil

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« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2006, 03:11:26 PM »
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
Phil, i think you misunderstood my post.
sorry about that....so who's saying....we should try ALL botique amps to know what is good or bad then? Honestly speaking, when I buy an amp....I go to the store and play the hell out of  it and don't rely on what this salesperson or amp tech (specially doing mods) says....his "good sound" might not be MY "good sound"....especially here in  LA...a lot of crazy people here. :D
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Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2006, 03:25:06 PM »
BAMF,

Simple Message: Wanna build good sounding amps? Get exposed.

Offline stratman1

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« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2006, 03:29:51 PM »
Whew... it's getting hot in here 8) . Could it the tubes in BAMF's pre-amp? Or just the heat comming from all these post, :-k , hehe.

BAMF... katulad ng sabi ni Glassjaw, medyo manipis ang tunog. But then again... you created the thing to make some sound. I think that alone deserves a commendation =D> You actually initiated the work. Can anybody honestlly say that they made their own amp in this forum., I sure can't. And I'm not gonna because I have no clue what to do,  #-o hehe. Go ahead BOI :shock: !!!Get them tubes burnin'. It's your creation. If it sounds good to your ears then that's great. YOu can't make eveybody happy so just make yourself happy :lol: . Plus, you don't want to sound like any other amps out there, you want to have your own sound. The BAMF sound, tada!!! :-({|=

Punta nalang sa BOTIKA, tagay ng Corex D, tapos gawa ng amp. O, e di may BOTIKA amp ka na, hahaha :lol: Sensya na mga bossing, this rambling is brought to you by excess lack of sleep,  :mrgreen:

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2006, 03:31:40 PM »
Phil,

I understand that the Amp Shop may be expensive when it comes to biasing.  But more importantly, did you try out their amps?

I bought my Soldano and Bogner from Ampshop.  Gary of Ampshop rushed soldano to get a customized SLO100 in under two weeks wired for Philippine 220 volts. Gary also pestered bogner for an Uberschall wired for Philippine 220 volts.  Both heads were ready for pickup within 2 weeks from the date of downpayment.  

Soldano customer support was on top of the whole order process and made sure that from the date of the downpayment, they knew what I wanted.  Bogner for their part was able to find a European wired 220 in their inventory, so they immediately sent that to Ampshop.

Now thats what I call customer service given that these are custom amps and not readily available.

Offline stratman1

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« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2006, 03:32:58 PM »
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: glassjaw_jc
Phil, i think you misunderstood my post.
sorry about that....so who's saying....we should try ALL botique amps to know what is good or bad then? Honestly speaking, when I buy an amp....I go to the store and play the hell out of  it and don't rely on what this salesperson or amp tech (specially doing mods) says....his "good sound" might not be MY "good sound"....especially here in  LA...a lot of crazy people here. :D


Hey!!! I told you my Psychiatrist discharged me last week and said that my tendency and sudden urge to kill can now be controlled by medications. Now... if I can just find that medicine bottle... :lol:

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2006, 03:36:53 PM »
Markflo,

When I talk about equipment, I am assuming the baseline is that you already have tone in your fingers.  So, dont skew the topic.  The topic is: If I play on a Korean Hot Cabs amp versus a Soldano SLO100, there will be a tonal difference very much in favor of the Soldano.  Period.  Thats the message.  

Now since you mentioned that tone is in the fingers, so if you want to change tone, what do you do now?  Cut off your fingers?  You don't.  You either change guitar, guitar parts, amp or effects.

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2006, 03:49:07 PM »
Glassjaw,

What I am saying is that to really say an amp sounds good, we have to compare and AB.  Unfortunately, the guys in the U.S. and other European countries have a super head start because they have been exposed and doon nagsimula ang tubes right?  Mga RCA and GE circuits ang naunang tube amp di ba? Saan nangaling iyon?  U.S.A di ba -- mas attuned na sila sa tunog ng tube amp.  First tube amp pa lang nga ni BAMF -- siya pa nga ang first local producer ng RP made tube amp pang hobby pa muna walang intention sa commercial production as of today.  I am not discounting that BAMF can produce something good down the line but I believe thats very far.  The funny thing is that we want to make our own tube amp pero magtatanong sa tunog ng Vox or Hiwatt.  Labo talaga.  Kung gusto Vox, dapat email tayo kay Cornell, kung gusto Hiwatt dapat email tayo sa Hiwatt o sa anak ni Harry Joyce.

Offline titser_marco

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« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2006, 04:09:23 PM »
Hmmm, exposure helps but it's not a necessity.

Quote from: oasgomez
BAMF,

Simple Message: Wanna build good sounding amps? Get exposed.
I'd rather be sharp than flat.

Offline BAMF

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« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2006, 04:23:51 PM »
Quote from: oasgomez
BAMF,

Simple Message: Wanna build good sounding amps? Get exposed.


Simple answer that you can't seem to comprehend. I AM EXPOSED AND I KNOW WHAT I WANT. And it's a Marshall JCM 800 sound.

What part of this can't you understand ? You seem to speak good English.
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Offline glassjaw_jc

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« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2006, 04:31:32 PM »
Quote from: oasgomez
Glassjaw,

What I am saying is that to really say an amp sounds good, we have to compare and AB.  Unfortunately, the guys in the U.S. and other European countries have a super head start because they have been exposed and doon nagsimula ang tubes right?  Mga RCA and GE circuits ang naunang tube amp di ba? Saan nangaling iyon?  U.S.A di ba -- mas attuned na sila sa tunog ng tube amp.  First tube amp pa lang nga ni BAMF -- siya pa nga ang first local producer ng RP made tube amp pang hobby pa muna walang intention sa commercial production as of today.  I am not discounting that BAMF can produce something good down the line but I believe thats very far.  The funny thing is that we want to make our own tube amp pero magtatanong sa tunog ng Vox or Hiwatt.  Labo talaga.  Kung gusto Vox, dapat email tayo kay Cornell, kung gusto Hiwatt dapat email tayo sa Hiwatt o sa anak ni Harry Joyce.


point taken. thanks
Surf's Up!

Online pallas

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« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2006, 05:42:28 PM »
Quote from: BAMF
Quote from: oasgomez
BAMF,

Simple Message: Wanna build good sounding amps? Get exposed.


Simple answer that you can't seem to comprehend. I AM EXPOSED AND I KNOW WHAT I WANT. And it's a Marshall JCM 800 sound.

What part of this can't you understand ? You seem to speak good English.

mismo pre...screw exposure its the passion that counts and the drive to get that sound in your head 8) GOOD LUCK

Offline sonnyrayvaughn

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« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2006, 07:42:14 PM »
Quote from: stratman1
Whew... it's getting hot in here 8) . Could it the tubes in BAMF's pre-amp? Or just the heat comming from all these post, :-k , hehe.

BAMF... katulad ng sabi ni Glassjaw, medyo manipis ang tunog. But then again... you created the thing to make some sound. I think that alone deserves a commendation =D> You actually initiated the work. Can anybody honestlly say that they made their own amp in this forum., I sure can't. And I'm not gonna because I have no clue what to do,  #-o hehe. Go ahead BOI :shock: !!!Get them tubes burnin'. It's your creation. If it sounds good to your ears then that's great. YOu can't make eveybody happy so just make yourself happy :lol: . Plus, you don't want to sound like any other amps out there, you want to have your own sound. The BAMF sound, tada!!! :-({|=

Punta nalang sa BOTIKA, tagay ng Corex D, tapos gawa ng amp. O, e di may BOTIKA amp ka na, hahaha :lol: Sensya na mga bossing, this rambling is brought to you by excess lack of sleep,  :mrgreen:


Ah Stratman Bro, speaking words of wisdom, as always...

soldering different pickup combination is a challenge na for me, gagawa pa ng amp, unthinkable! BAMF, go for it buddy, the result will either be good or bad, however, its the learning experience that comes along it that matters...

Do What Thou Wilt ... Alister Crowley

Offline Phil

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« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2006, 11:09:47 PM »
Quote from: oasgomez
Phil,

I understand that the Amp Shop may be expensive when it comes to biasing.  But more importantly, did you try out their amps?

I bought my Soldano and Bogner from Ampshop.  Gary of Ampshop rushed soldano to get a customized SLO100 in under two weeks wired for Philippine 220 volts. Gary also pestered bogner for an Uberschall wired for Philippine 220 volts.  Both heads were ready for pickup within 2 weeks from the date of downpayment.  

Soldano customer support was on top of the whole order process and made sure that from the date of the downpayment, they knew what I wanted.  Bogner for their part was able to find a European wired 220 in their inventory, so they immediately sent that to Ampshop.

Now thats what I call customer service given that these are custom amps and not readily available.
...tell you this...I won't ever go back to that store....mga swappang mga tao don.....they treat you really good 'coz you were buying expensive stuff from them. I'd rather go to Guitar Center....mas friendly pa mga tao don....And if I do save up the money to buy me Bogner or Soldano? ...I won't ever go through that shop...I'd bring my business to another FRIENDLY store.
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Offline markflo

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« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2006, 12:55:59 AM »
yea dude, but thing is...not alot of people have access to these boutique amps, y'see? we here in the US, of course, have access to them...but MOST people don't...so what you're basically saying to everyone here is ..."none of you have great tone because none of you have these oh so great boutique amps that i have" and "none of you are exposed because you haven't heard my oh so great boutique amps" well....good for you, dude...what? do we start worshipping you and your amps now?

comparing hot cabs with a soldano is just plain f%$%'n stupid really...but see, you don't need to spend $3000+ bucks on an amp to get a great sound...there's alot of "normal" priced amps out there that will deliver the goods just the same...you make it sound like your boutique amps are the be all, end all of all amplifiers....i got news for you, they're not!

what i don't care for is amp snobs like you who think that your uberschall's and shiva's and matchless amps are the only access to great tone...sure they're great amps...i'll give you that, but you can get great tone from mid priced amps as well...i think about 99% of these people will agree...

now about cutting my fingers, that's just real bad analogy man...that would be equivalent to turning the amp's eq off...not changing the tone...y'know what i do when i wanna change the tone? I PLAY WITH THE EQ OF THE AMP! THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR!

you can change your tone with tubes, speakers, guitars, picks, strings, etc etc....effects....these are all true...these will probably cost you a few hundred bucks...

but guess what? even if you shell out a car's downpayment's worth for your so called boutique amps, you're still gonna buy the above mentioned items! that's just plain ridiculous...

if you're touring the world as a musician... $3000 is a piece of cake...but other than that...making that decision is just borderlining on either pure excessiveness/plain s t u p i d i t y...

btw, before you dismiss this as an envious outcry...i'll be the first to tell you...it's not...i have all the gear i need...its total cost is probably less than the cost of one of your amp's grille cloths...but it sounds great....BECAUSE I SAY SO...

Quote from: oasgomez
Markflo,

When I talk about equipment, I am assuming the baseline is that you already have tone in your fingers.  So, dont skew the topic.  The topic is: If I play on a Korean Hot Cabs amp versus a Soldano SLO100, there will be a tonal difference very much in favor of the Soldano.  Period.  Thats the message.  

Now since you mentioned that tone is in the fingers, so if you want to change tone, what do you do now?  Cut off your fingers?  You don't.  You either change guitar, guitar parts, amp or effects.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline BAMF

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« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2006, 01:19:57 AM »
Yo guys. Thanks for the encouragement, it's truly appreciated.

I just finished as in closed the case on the El Tubero. It's got the Marshall Tone stack now and now, I can again hear that "quack-quack" (or is it "thwack-thwack"?) .

Funny design that Tone Stack is. The pots are in series, such that if you bottom out the treble and/or bass, the mid (which is at the last stage) actually gets boosted and emphasized, as opposed to just separately cutting out the treble and bass and mids. The pots actually interact with each other !   Ingenious work by Marshall engineers considering the technology they had at the time :D.  Now I'm appreciatin' :D .

Inserting the Marshall Tone Stack between the triode halves also "tamed" whe wild 12AX7's gain by introducing some insertion loss. Now, there's no more whistling, no more breath-catching and no more unusable area with the gain control's "twist". No wild buzzing caused by too much saturation either. And most of all, it's approaching the brown tone...that signature "squeeze my balls hard" sound (ipit) from a Marshall.  I'm happy. I think this will also make other guitarists happy. But I won't stop here yet :D. It still lacks that tube "hahhhh" breathing sound which comes from the interaction of the output transformer, speaker and power tubes (so I'm told anyway).  Hmmm...I'm getting a couple more ideas. What if I insert a small output transformer at the 12AX7's output and insert a 16 ohm wirewound (and hence inductive) dummy load resistor at the secondary and tap the audio output from there ? That should give that non-linear interaction. Interesting thought. But I'll sleep on it for now.

It's like 1 am. My neighbours will put out a contract on me if I record a soundclip now. I'll do it tomorrow after waking up.

Thanks guys.
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