hulika

Author Topic: VOX AC and Hiwatt amps  (Read 19891 times)

Offline stratman1

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« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2006, 06:41:02 AM »
oic.

Offline deltaslim

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« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2006, 08:11:34 PM »
what a disappointment... i was checking this thread for the vitriol and mudslinging but now it turned gay.  pffft!  ;-)  :lol:

Offline BAMF

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« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2006, 12:15:09 AM »
Quote from: deltaslim
Quote from: BAMF
Funny design that Tone Stack is. The pots are in series, such that if you bottom out the treble and/or bass, the mid (which is at the last stage) actually gets boosted and emphasized, as opposed to just separately cutting out the treble and bass and mids. The pots actually interact with each other !   Ingenious work by Marshall engineers considering the technology they had at the time :D.  Now I'm appreciatin' :D .


I guess it is a Baxandall tone circuit, then, as mentioned in my previous post.  I'm interested to confirm this in terms of actual circuitry but I'm not an engineer. I-google mo yung 'baxandall tone circuit' and you'll some basic schems. Let me know naman kung pareho talaga. I'm very interested to settle that question I've had in my mind from a technical stand point.


Looking at the baxandall's, I dunno, it kinda doesnt look the same. Here's the circuit for the marshall tone stack that I used...just cut it before it goes to the coupling capacitor going to the line preamp. Notice how the treble, bass and midrange are in series, and as you roll the treble and bass towards ground, you're actually increasing current going into the midrange which I presume, boosts mids :

http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk/tubestuf/dzart-8.htm

I'm thinking of adding a 3-10db gain stage before the tone stack using an FET. Maybe I can recover some of the lost drive due to the insertion loss.

Then...I found another great idea which I initially thought to be useless on the AX84 site :

http://195.178.239.50/ax84/media/ax84_m276.gif

It's a small 0.5 Watts power amp powered by one 12AU7 operating in push-pull. Just what I needed...a small power amp, powering an inductive wirewound resistor from which I can tap out a signal which I might be able to use in a solid state power section. Heck...methinks it's a great idea. If I can get that "hahhh" sound from it...okidoki na ! Plus it's a lower cost step rather than taking the full-tube plunge :D.

Edit: Yeah the FMV tone stack is a 3-knob Baxandall circuit pala.
Update : sinubukan ko gawin class A yung isang kalahati ng 12ax7 through a small output transformer. Numipis lalo tunog. Binalik ko sa dati.
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Offline tele-tubby

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« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2006, 11:24:04 AM »
Quote from: oasgomez
BAMF,

without any disrespect, but have you really heard what a good AC30 sounds like in person?  If so, how many? If not, how do you know that you are voicing the correct sound?

this is my point... wala tayo sa position to make amps that sound good because we are not exposed... period


but we can always try :D   maybe some day the marshalls and the fenders will give way to pinoy amp gurus :D

Offline tele-tubby

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« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2006, 11:29:22 AM »
Quote from: deltaslim
what a disappointment... i was checking this thread for the vitriol and mudslinging but now it turned gay.  pffft!  ;-)  :lol:


hahaha... delta naman oh. peace lang.


Offline BAMF

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« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2006, 10:57:31 PM »
Ready for submission !

Now since I don't think it would qualify for a tone party (ni wala pa ngang P 3,000 pesos ang halaga) , I'll have my band listen to it first, then maybe kanshooter, then...ahemm...Mr. Librero is it possible to meet you somehow, somewhere and maybe you an listen to this thing ? And tell me what you think of it ? I live quite close to Jun's place and do need to have a couple of guitars buzz-eliminated. What say you ?  :D

One thing's for certain...the sh*tty JR amp sounds a lot sweeter with it !

BAMF

PS While soundclips are a good thing, there are too many permutations to the preamp, now having 6 knobs (gain, master, treble, mid, bass and solid-state drive) and two general settings (tube overdrive and solid-state clip). Plus, a soundclip will not capture the feel and dynamics that it brings.

I think my general direction right now is a very small tube amp, possibly this preamp configuration plus a small class B output stage (12AU7), "line-out" to a solid state amp. So far this early effort has been encouraging. Solid states are just so...cheap, ubiquitous, linear and robust. Like with any amp tinkerer, if I can get the authentic tube sound over solid states...well...:D.
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Offline turiguiliano

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« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2006, 11:46:51 PM »
Quote from: BAMF
Ready for submission !

 Like with any amp tinkerer, if I can get the authentic tube sound over solid states...well...:D.



niiiiiiiiiiice....hope i can hear it too.....or try it if its ok....galing dude...congratulations on your accomplishment...More power. Peace.
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Online Al_Librero

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« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2006, 11:48:46 PM »
Errr... why me?  :lol:

Just about everyone else who's posted here are better judges than I am, actually. But hey, I always enjoy meeting people at Jun's house.
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Offline BAMF

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« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2006, 12:50:38 AM »
Quote from: turiguiliano
Quote from: BAMF
Ready for submission !

 Like with any amp tinkerer, if I can get the authentic tube sound over solid states...well...:D.



niiiiiiiiiiice....hope i can hear it too.....or try it if its ok....galing dude...congratulations on your accomplishment...More power. Peace.


Sure ! I'm free M-W-F afternoons. I live in Paco, Manila :D. Send me a PM and I'll return with my landline so I can tell you my exact coordinates :D.
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
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Offline BAMF

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« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2006, 12:54:06 AM »
Quote from: Al_Librero
Errr... why me?  :lol:

Just about everyone else who's posted here are better judges than I am, actually. But hey, I always enjoy meeting people at Jun's house.


Mmm...modest sir ha. :D . Maybe it's a question of credibility, and you got it in my book :D. And you tell things as it is, so if you say it's sh*tty, it's back to the drawing board for me :D. It's still got this hum...maybe because it's built inside a plastic case, but I'm interested in knowing what you'd think of it, hum aside :D

BAMF
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Offline zook

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« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2006, 11:45:25 AM »
BAMF,

I'll be damned. You actually did it. Congrats dude on your new El Tubero amp! I'm happy for you. I will echo what deltaslim ealier said. If it's OK with you, maybe you can share your know-how with all of us. And maybe if you are no longer pressed for time, you could post a recap -- a mini HowTo of sorts -- of your first tube amp build.

Again, congrats and keep on tweaking until you get the ulimate Marchall tone!

Offline stratman1

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« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2006, 12:32:38 PM »
Pano naman kaming mga sumusunod ng kababanata dito na hindi makakapunta sa inyo? Gusto rin naming marinig ang final "READY FOR SUBMISSION" version ng El Tubero. This is one of those things that makes me proud to be a FILIPINO =D> , hehehe :lol: . BAMF, meron ka bang audio clip ng final version? Parinig naman. Gusto kong marinig ang gawang atin, hehehe.

Offline BAMF

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« Reply #87 on: February 07, 2006, 12:41:28 PM »
Dudes, El Tubero is just a tube preamp/overdrive ha :D.

First generation of my learning kumbaga. The output stage is still the JR amp. Next step ko is a small wattage amp 0.5 W line out to a solid state, then I'll finish up with either an EL84 based (18W) or 6550 (50w methinks). I've already canvassed and know na where to get all the parts...except the chassis punch which hopefully will save me from tons of drilling.

Next submission ko will be El Tubero II :D.

O sya, clips tonight. Wag nyo na ko hanapan ng riffs ha. G-Ionian scale lang saka strumming ng full chord saka power chord.

BAMF
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Offline stratman1

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« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2006, 01:14:06 PM »
Go for the 6550 50 watters, man! Be loud, be proud!!!

Offline Phil

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« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2006, 01:41:51 PM »
Quote from: BAMF
Dudes, El Tubero is just a tube preamp/overdrive ha :D.

First generation of my learning kumbaga. The output stage is still the JR amp. Next step ko is a small wattage amp 0.5 W line out to a solid state, then I'll finish up with either an EL84 based (18W) or 6550 (50w methinks). I've already canvassed and know na where to get all the parts...except the chassis punch which hopefully will save me from tons of drilling.

Next submission ko will be El Tubero II :D.

O sya, clips tonight. Wag nyo na ko hanapan ng riffs ha. G-Ionian scale lang saka strumming ng full chord saka power chord.

BAMF
kahit na "smoke on the water" intro para sa power chord riff....or Panama sa Van Halen.
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Offline stratman1

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« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2006, 02:13:11 PM »
Quote from: Phil
Quote from: BAMF
Dudes, El Tubero is just a tube preamp/overdrive ha :D.

First generation of my learning kumbaga. The output stage is still the JR amp. Next step ko is a small wattage amp 0.5 W line out to a solid state, then I'll finish up with either an EL84 based (18W) or 6550 (50w methinks). I've already canvassed and know na where to get all the parts...except the chassis punch which hopefully will save me from tons of drilling.

Next submission ko will be El Tubero II :D.

O sya, clips tonight. Wag nyo na ko hanapan ng riffs ha. G-Ionian scale lang saka strumming ng full chord saka power chord.

BAMF
kahit na "smoke on the water" intro para sa power chord riff....or Panama sa Van Halen.


Or... kahit na isang power chord lang... say... Em dim7th bb5th aug11th added9th ##15th or single E note at the 30th fret, hahaha :lol:  :twisted:  :shock:  #-o  =D>

Offline BAMF

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« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2006, 02:13:04 PM »
O mga ser. I finally got down to it. Here are three soundclips featuring na lang yung riffs ng "This Charming man" by The smiths.

Here it is, tube overdrive mode, no other effects :
http://rapidshare.de/files/12928818/tube_nofx_.mp3.html

Then here's the sound in solid state clip mode, no other effects :
http://rapidshare.de/files/12928893/ssclip_nofx__2_.mp3.html

Finally, turning on my zoom 505 in my "clean" preset (which is just a dash of chorus and reverb )
http://rapidshare.de/files/12928949/fx_ssclip.mp3.html


tone considerations :

All EQ controls flat, tube overdrive gain at 75%
Guitar is an Epiphone stratocaster, humbucker on bridge pickup
Pieces are finger-plucked.


Notes : I dunno if it's just how I miked it, but it really sounds buzzy on hard strumming. I think it's the sound of the tubes going into overdrive. Yan nga ang dynamics netong lintik na to. You can practically turn the distortion on and off just by how hard you strum.
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Offline BAMF

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« Reply #92 on: February 10, 2006, 03:00:18 PM »
Eto pa mga sir. I'm not sure if my miking techniques are doing the preamp justice, but here's the "panama" opening bars, as requested. No other effects, just the preamp set on solid-state clip (which only means, putting an assymetrical diode clipping stage apart from the natural tube overdrive.


http://rapidshare.de/files/12930311/ssclipnofxpanama.mp3.html
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
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Online greasykid

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« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2006, 03:52:29 PM »
Wow!

BAMF, sayang na-miss ko entirely yung "lively" na diskusyon dito.  Akala ko pa naman puro tech stuff pag uusapan, pati pala yung  bagong bespren ng lahat nandito to give his thousands of dollars worth.      

Tinatamad pa rin akong gumawa ng McTube. At saka magastos...  Hehehehe.

Offline BAMF

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« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2006, 08:22:53 PM »
Quote from: greasykid
Wow!

BAMF, sayang na-miss ko entirely yung "lively" na diskusyon dito.  Akala ko pa naman puro tech stuff pag uusapan, pati pala yung  bagong bespren ng lahat nandito to give his thousands of dollars worth.      

Tinatamad pa rin akong gumawa ng McTube. At saka magastos...  Hehehehe.


Di masyado bro ! yung tubo lang ang single most expensive, 300 bux. Nakakita ako tube socket na mura, 35 bucks lang sa Watsons Electronics. Wala nga lang yung shroud, tube socket lang talaga sya.  The rest of the parts  mga 100 bucks lang (wag ka lang bibili ng Riken Ohm saka Oil in Paper caps lol). Case lagay mo na sa 100. Wire...mga 30 pesos.
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Offline Phil

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« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2006, 08:58:10 AM »
Quote from: BAMF
Eto pa mga sir. I'm not sure if my miking techniques are doing the preamp justice, but here's the "panama" opening bars, as requested. No other effects, just the preamp set on solid-state clip (which only means, putting an assymetrical diode clipping stage apart from the natural tube overdrive.


http://rapidshare.de/files/12930311/ssclipnofxpanama.mp3.html


cool.....awesome job, man.
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Offline zook

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« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2006, 12:15:56 PM »
BAMF,

I'm currently scouting for a power transformer for my ax84 project. I contacted Kinetic Audio technologies and what they have is the Hammond output transformer (Hammond 125-DSE). The price if quite good too. However, the cost of the power transformer (Hammond 369-ex) is off the scale so I'm planning to have one hand-built.

Herein lies the problem. I don't know what to tell the builder. Looking at the schematics of Ax84, would I be able to tell the specs of the power transformer that I need? I also checked the specs of the ax84 power transformer (Hammond 369-ex) and these are the numbers that I got:

Total PWR (VA)  - 45              
Secondary (RPMS) - 190-0-190
DC (ma) - 65
Bias Tap (VAC) - 50
Filament #1 (VAC) - 6.3Vct @ 2.5A

So what do I tell the builder? Thanks!

Offline BAMF

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« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2006, 12:42:54 PM »
I think that information is enough. Basically when you get a power transformer wound, you just tell the winder what voltages you need and at what current. If possible, draw him a tap diagram. Like the info you gave tells me that the amp is around 30-40Watts in power. Your primary winding should be 220-0, secondary winding is 190-0-190 with a 50 v bias winding (don't have it tapped out of a center-tapped winding !!!!)  with 6.3V tap  for the heaters. I can draw the tap diagram for you, but even if I did I don't have a scanner.

Would you be interested in sharing a beer ? I've already decided on a 50 W Marshall with 6550 power tubes. Sabi nila hindi daw maganda ang tunog ng 6550, mas matigas ata but heck, it's more durable than the EL34 and if ever I 'd want go do that, I just need to change a few resistors.

Let's trade notes. I've already compiled sources for parts like auricaps, Rikens, even someone who can wind output transformers. Apparently there's a very active audiphile network here in the Philippines.

Here: www.wiredstate.com

By the way I'm already a member of www.cedist.com. Very reasonably priced for a company that's in the US ha ! Like 30W Marshall output transformers only go for 54 dollars, reverb tanks for 15 dollars etc. You can "joint purchase" some stuff with me. Tubes...ubusin muna natin yung mga NOS (NOS nga kaya ???Hmmm) sa Deeco, mura dun the 6L6 only costs 800 bucks and the 12AX7's, only P300. 6550's at Audiophile only cost less than 1,200 for a matched pair. Tapusin ko muna mga pedal projects ko...mas instant gratification e but I've started collecting stuff for my 50 W like tube sockets etc.
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Offline zook

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« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2006, 12:28:58 PM »
Quote from: BAMF
I think that information is enough. Basically when you get a power transformer wound, you just tell the winder what voltages you need and at what current. If possible, draw him a tap diagram. Like the info you gave tells me that the amp is around 30-40Watts in power. Your primary winding should be 220-0, secondary winding is 190-0-190 with a 50 v bias winding (don't have it tapped out of a center-tapped winding !!!!)  with 6.3V tap  for the heaters. I can draw the tap diagram for you, but even if I did I don't have a scanner.


Many thanks for the info. I called up Mang Rod of wiredstate yesterday. Very nice chap. Unfortunately he has a lot of pending stuff. He referred me to Podmon in Legarda as well.  

Quote

Would you be interested in sharing a beer ? I've already decided on a 50 W Marshall with 6550 power tubes. Sabi nila hindi daw maganda ang tunog ng 6550, mas matigas ata but heck, it's more durable than the EL34 and if ever I 'd want go do that, I just need to change a few resistors.


Sure, mahaba-habang inuman ito! For now I will not even attempt to look at the Marshall schematics. Ayoko ng sakit ng ulo! I just want the clean sound and the "simple design" of the Ax84 P1. Later on, pag natututo na ako, I will try to explore the high gain variants of Ax84.

Quote

Let's trade notes. I've already compiled sources for parts like auricaps, Rikens, even someone who can wind output transformers. Apparently there's a very active audiphile network here in the Philippines.

Here: www.wiredstate.com


Oo ba. Right now, I'm still in the gathering phase. I will share whatever interesting information and sources I could gather. A few days ago I reactivated my account at wiredstate. Last time I inquired about Hammond transformers, a guru-member referred me to an overseas supplier. It was too expensive back then. I was surprised to learn from you about the local supplier.

Quote

By the way I'm already a member of www.cedist.com. Very reasonably priced for a company that's in the US ha ! Like 30W Marshall output transformers only go for 54 dollars, reverb tanks for 15 dollars etc. You can "joint purchase" some stuff with me. Tubes...ubusin muna natin yung mga NOS (NOS nga kaya ???Hmmm) sa Deeco, mura dun the 6L6 only costs 800 bucks and the 12AX7's, only P300. 6550's at Audiophile only cost less than 1,200 for a matched pair. Tapusin ko muna mga pedal projects ko...mas instant gratification e but I've started collecting stuff for my 50 W like tube sockets etc.


Thanks for the offer. Pag wala talaga akong mahanap na piyesa dito sa Pinas, makiki-ride ako sa account mo! Didn't know Deeco sells tubes pala. I'm sure you've already come accross this thread in wiredstate about sellers of fake tubes based in Hong Kong: http://wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8539