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Author Topic: Perfect Intonation  (Read 16029 times)

Offline Machine_Head

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Perfect Intonation
« on: February 02, 2006, 10:46:03 AM »
Ive been having intonation problems with my new old guitar. When i do an A chord on the 2nd fret everything sounds good, but when i do a G5 at 5th string 10th fret it sounds really off. Ive had it fixed twice already. Is there something wrong with my guitar? Anything i can do to fix it?

Thanks!



Offline ericbaquiran

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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 11:23:22 AM »
You've had it "fixed" twice where?

I suggest you have Jun Castro take a look at it.

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Offline Machine_Head

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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2006, 11:36:24 AM »
I had it fixed by a luthier. First time for general setup. When i got the guitar the neck was kinda warped and volume pot was busted. 2nd time to fix the wiring and stuff, but i asked him to refix the intonation, coz it was still off. But its still off after all of that.

I'll try to fix it myself first coz i spent quite an amount of money for fixing the gutiar already. If it doesnt work out, then i'll have it worked on by Jun.

Thanks!

Online Taoistguitarist

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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 11:50:49 AM »
i definitely recommend jun! Mad scientist ng guitar yun! it only took him one look at my guitar for him to know my intonation was off! Add the fact that i've adjusted the intonation of the guitar several times. :shock:

Offline Machine_Head

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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 11:58:34 AM »
Mad scientist huh.. Hehe... :D How much did you spend to have it intonated. You can PM me on that.. Just wanna know how much i have to save up. :)


Offline meashuggahr

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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 12:55:41 PM »
lupit nga si jun kesa sa isang alam kong si A..(secret)
nagparepair ak acoustic (fender dg-4) P950 lang kay jun samantalang kay tooooot e P3,500 daw :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  napautot nga ako kay toooot e :?

Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 01:14:03 PM »
Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation.  I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.

Offline Machine_Head

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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2006, 01:23:42 PM »
Ouch! Ano sira pinarepair mo?

Quote from: meandmygun
lupit nga si jun kesa sa isang alam kong si A..(secret)
nagparepair ak acoustic (fender dg-4) P950 lang kay jun samantalang kay tooooot e P3,500 daw :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  napautot nga ako kay toooot e :?

Offline toybitz

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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2006, 01:24:27 PM »
Quote from: oasgomez
Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation.  I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.


haha!
Tele bought 20K. Upgraded pots.  FS: 30K  Trade Value BS: 85K.  Deal tayo?

Offline Machine_Head

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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 01:26:09 PM »
Wait lang mga sirs, i hope this wont turn into a who's-better-than-who thread.

Anyway, I understand that there is no perfectly intonated guitar unless you have it fitted with the Buzz Feiten system. But how much error is considered normal?

Online Taoistguitarist

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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 01:32:00 PM »
well i won't argue .that's what i thought when i brought my guitar there. Anyway i'll let you know if his idea of perfect intonation is better than what i did. :D

Offline meashuggahr

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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 01:34:31 PM »
Quote from: Machine_Head
Ouch! Ano sira pinarepair mo?

Quote from: meandmygun
lupit nga si jun kesa sa isang alam kong si A..(secret)
nagparepair ak acoustic (fender dg-4) P950 lang kay jun samantalang kay tooooot e P3,500 daw :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  napautot nga ako kay toooot e :?



yung brge pinadikit ko ulit nkaangat kc at adjust rod for 10's.ayus na ngayun:)

btw warning posts ko:)

there's no harm in trying...

Online Taoistguitarist

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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 02:51:25 PM »
iba kasi approach ni jun when it comes to intonation. ang alam ko kasi yung harmonics and the fretted note on 12th fret must be as close as possible. pero si jun kasi may ibang approach. I mean come on if you can build a whole guitar from scratch that means you'd better be knowledgeable about  the correct placement  of the frets on the fretboard or else it would never sound right no matter how much you intonate it.  And if he can do that i think it's better for me to listen when he tells me if my intonation is off.  :D  I won't elaborate and pretend to know the details about it.  I just trust the guy.  May ibang guitar naman ako na ipinatingin ko sa kanya and he said my intonation was spot on! hehehe. And  tama si meanmygun there's no harm in trying diba ?:D  Peace!

Offline meashuggahr

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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 03:10:17 PM »
try mo pacheck kay oas baka ok na yan:)

nga pala ano nga pala apelyido ni jun?

madami kasi jun may kakilala ako jun na gunsmith, jun na priest, jun na nining ko....hehe

CASTRO...hehe

Offline Al_Librero

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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2006, 03:11:28 PM »
Quote from: oasgomez
Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation.  I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.

lol! i would have been surprised if you didn't show up in this thread.


Anyway, Jun's method works for a legion of bassists and guitarists, myself included. If any of you believe the oasgomez has perfect pitch, then take his word for it. Otherwise, trust your own ears. Jun won't charge you for anything if you aren't satisfied with his work on intonation. Maririnig naman kasi sa demonstration e.
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Offline oasgomez-is-banned

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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2006, 03:22:07 PM »
Machine Head,

I brought a guitar intonated by electronic tuner 12th fret vs. 12th fret harmonic and double checked by ear.  Jun just looked at the electric guitar and strummed it once unplugged and told me it there was an intonation problem.  I just had to smirk because I was testing him for a type 2 error which he commited.  He diagnosed a guitar without a problem as having a problem.  My Floyd Rose Super Strat is on Buzz Feiten.  I like it because the BF helps chords sound more together.  However, some people prefer the traditional setup because of the different sound it can produce.  For example, Santa Cruz Guitars USA does not want to install Buzz Feiten on their guitars because it changes the whole feel and sound while Suhr and Anderson Electrics have it as standard.

Guitar Addict,

Fret placement on the fingerboard is not the same as intonation.  There are available fret placement rulers on the market for corresponding scale lengths for you to place frets on blank fingerboards.

Offline meashuggahr

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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2006, 03:39:39 PM »
Quote from: Al_Librero
Quote from: oasgomez
Jun is the last person on earth I would bring my guitar for intonation.  I brought him a perfectly intonated guitar and he recommended intonation.

lol! i would have been surprised if you didn't show up in this thread.


Anyway, Jun's method works for a legion of bassists and guitarists, myself included. If any of you believe the oasgomez has perfect pitch, then take his word for it. Otherwise, trust your own ears. Jun won't charge you for anything if you aren't satisfied with his work on intonation. Maririnig naman kasi sa demonstration e.



sa dami nga ng nakapila dung guitara ewan ko kung magaabala pa sya iintonate ang walang prblema...pero malay nga naman natin:)

o baka naman sinusubukan din misan ni jun kung sinusubukan sya:)

Online Taoistguitarist

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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2006, 03:50:17 PM »
Quote from: oasgomez
Machine Head,

I brought a guitar intonated by electronic tuner 12th fret vs. 12th fret harmonic and double checked by ear.  Jun just looked at the electric guitar and strummed it once unplugged and told me it there was an intonation problem.  I just had to smirk because I was testing him for a type 2 error which he commited.  He diagnosed a guitar without a problem as having a problem.  My Floyd Rose Super Strat is on Buzz Feiten.  I like it because the BF helps chords sound more together.  However, some people prefer the traditional setup because of the different sound it can produce.  For example, Santa Cruz Guitars USA does not want to install Buzz Feiten on their guitars because it changes the whole feel and sound while Suhr and Anderson Electrics have it as standard.

Guitar Addict,

Fret placement on the fingerboard is not the same as intonation.  There are available fret placement rulers on the market for corresponding scale lengths for you to place frets on blank fingerboards.



Ahh ok next time we'll all have our guitars intonated by you :D

Offline Al_Librero

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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2006, 03:53:04 PM »
Quote
o baka naman sinusubukan din misan ni jun kung sinusubukan sya:)

impressive insight.  :wink:

for the record, oasgomez never really gave Jun Castro a chance. fully trusting Arie's work, he assumed that his guitar had perfect intonation (it's no secret that the two luthiers have differing approaches to intonation). nung sinabi ni Jun na hindi naka-intonate yung gitara, oasgomez immediately concluded na nag-iimbento ng sira si Jun.

oasgomez never actually "tried" and heard the results of Jun's intonation work, since hindi naman niya pinagalaw yung gitara niya.
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Offline meashuggahr

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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2006, 04:03:43 PM »
...maybe jun can feel the VIBRATIONS! just like beethoven....
di lang sa guitara pati sa owner...maganda kaya vibrations ko?
shyet...

Offline meashuggahr

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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2006, 04:08:30 PM »
pero siryus na try mo nalang txt o kausapin mga kakilalamong gumagawa:)
then dun ka sa feel mo pre.
pero kung kaya mo naman at satisfied kana sa into...edi...ibalik ang swirtiii :wink:

Online Taoistguitarist

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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2006, 04:16:26 PM »
Quote from: Al_Librero
Quote
o baka naman sinusubukan din misan ni jun kung sinusubukan sya:)

impressive insight.  :wink:

for the record, oasgomez never really gave Jun Castro a chance. fully trusting Arie's work, he assumed that his guitar had perfect intonation (it's no secret that the two luthiers have differing approaches to intonation). nung sinabi ni Jun na hindi naka-intonate yung gitara, oasgomez immediately concluded na nag-iimbento ng sira si Jun.

oasgomez never actually "tried" and heard the results of Jun's intonation work, since hindi naman niya pinagalaw yung gitara niya.


Also if your guitar is buzz feiten( or whatever method) intonated it would probably look different and sound different when measured against a different and more traditional approach right? Why would you do that in the first place?  That's probably why jun said what he said. And if i had my guitar intonated by that particular system i'd expect jun to say it isn't. not because he's pulling my leg but because he's not familiar with it.  so to imply that jun doesn't know how to intonate given oa's reason is illogical.

Offline Al_Librero

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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2006, 04:43:34 PM »
actually, Jun is familiar with the BFTS. ayaw lang niya i-apply sa mga gitara. luthiers need a license to refit a guitar with that, and he doesn't have one. ayaw naman niyang mag colorum. it wouldn't be fair to his customers.
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Offline nivleklive

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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2006, 05:17:37 PM »
I brought my guitar to Mr. Jun Castro this morning to have my pickups replaced. Just by looking at my guitar he said that it had intonation problems (well of course it would have intonation problems, the strings were all rusty). He said that rusted strings should still be in intonation... this statement made me a tad worried (of course the rust would affect the "thickness" of the string, therefore affecting its "gauge"). But since my friend had high regard for him, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and told him to do everything that needs to be done to fix my guitar (aside from the pickup replacement he will be adjusting the trust rod since my guitar was a bit concaved, fret leveling for the slight string buzz in the high E string and intonation). Let's see how it goes :)

My questions is this: if a guitar is spot on in-tune in open, 12th fret pressed and the 12th fret harmonic, isn't the guitar supposedly intonated? I mean you can do all the measurements you want but IMHO "sounds good" is still better than "measured right". All the internets site I've researched in have defined a perfectly intonated guitar as having the same note in the open, 12th fret pressed and the harmonics at the 12th fret.

I've been intonating guitars since 1996 and to find out that my method is wrong was a complete shock to me. Meron ba talagang measurement ang pag-intonate? No, no I'm not putting Mr. Jun Castro's capabilities in any shadow of doubt, heck I left my guitar with him, but of course I also want to learn. I would like to think that keeping a guitar in perfect intonation should be something any serious guitarist should be able to do.

TIA guys! :)
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Offline glassjaw_jc

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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2006, 05:27:13 PM »
he does the 12 fret approach. but before that, he makes sure everything else that affects intonation is in place (fret spacing, neck, action, etc)
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